I am not my type's type
March 15, 2016 11:20 PM Subscribe
I keep being envious of women that have sparkling, bubbly, fun, energetic and confident personalities. Nearly every guy I ever liked has ended up falling head over heels for a woman like that. Details below the fold....
I am a quirky introvert, I can be funny in a sarcastic way but in general, I prefer to "think" rather than "do". I can be fun only when I am comfortable around someone which can take months of seeing them regularly. I am really bad in early dating, I know I come across as anxious and awkward. I don't know how to lead or generate sense of excitment that bubbly women do. I feel like I bore men before they really get to know me.
I prefer introverted men who end up being drawn to the women opposite of me. I really liked someone for the last 6 months or so who ended up in a relationship with a party girl and friendzoned me. When he goes on about how every moment with her is full of fun, it really depresses me.
Men that tend to be drawn to me are extroverts and even though I can form a superficial connection to them, I feel like we can never have deep conversations that I really need to connect to someone. So I make do with dating them, only because I can never get the men I really like.
I am not sure what to do apart from having a full personality transplant. I tried "faking" that I am more outgoing but it becomes very draininig fast. I have never been a relationship with someone I truly liked even though I am in my 30s. I have had a few long term relationships but they involved lots of pushing myself to give the guys a chance without feeling the deep connection. I am torn between general advice to "be yourself" since it failed in the past or put huge amounts of effort into changing my core personality (if that's even possible).
I am a quirky introvert, I can be funny in a sarcastic way but in general, I prefer to "think" rather than "do". I can be fun only when I am comfortable around someone which can take months of seeing them regularly. I am really bad in early dating, I know I come across as anxious and awkward. I don't know how to lead or generate sense of excitment that bubbly women do. I feel like I bore men before they really get to know me.
I prefer introverted men who end up being drawn to the women opposite of me. I really liked someone for the last 6 months or so who ended up in a relationship with a party girl and friendzoned me. When he goes on about how every moment with her is full of fun, it really depresses me.
Men that tend to be drawn to me are extroverts and even though I can form a superficial connection to them, I feel like we can never have deep conversations that I really need to connect to someone. So I make do with dating them, only because I can never get the men I really like.
I am not sure what to do apart from having a full personality transplant. I tried "faking" that I am more outgoing but it becomes very draininig fast. I have never been a relationship with someone I truly liked even though I am in my 30s. I have had a few long term relationships but they involved lots of pushing myself to give the guys a chance without feeling the deep connection. I am torn between general advice to "be yourself" since it failed in the past or put huge amounts of effort into changing my core personality (if that's even possible).
Why are you dating men you don't like and don't connect with? You are telling yourself that it's better to have any relationship at all than be single, and furthermore that you only "deserve" "second best" men who are not people you actually want to be with. What would happpen if you took your focus away from dating and onto your own interests and passions? What would happen if you decided to only get involved with people who you truly cherish and connect with? What would happen if you stopped thinking about your personality and your self as a commodity that men can pick and choose, and started thinking in terms of heartfelt connection and understanding?
If you don't think going out on dates is working out for you, stop dating. You're so invested in it that you think this meat-market/auction system is the only way to find a mate, and your thoughts about yourself have become warped accordingly. You are more than just a type of person, and so are other women, and so are men. Choose to be a whole person instead of a set of characteristics.
posted by mymbleth at 2:26 AM on March 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
If you don't think going out on dates is working out for you, stop dating. You're so invested in it that you think this meat-market/auction system is the only way to find a mate, and your thoughts about yourself have become warped accordingly. You are more than just a type of person, and so are other women, and so are men. Choose to be a whole person instead of a set of characteristics.
posted by mymbleth at 2:26 AM on March 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I can’t imagine anything more tiring, or more likely to cause psychological issues in the future, than trying to be somebody you are not. What could be more soul-destroying than stepford-wifing your way into a persona which somebody is attracted to, only for them to discover who you really are and feel deceived/confused, whilst you feel rejected for your true self? So abandon that as a concept.
Also – I don’t mean to be harsh, but I have to say that I cannot abide the term ‘bubbly’ as it is applied to women. It’s condescending, patronising and derogatory. Might as well say feisty and flighty and have done with it. It would never be used to describe a man. Are you using it on purpose, maybe, to make these women more ephemeral, less like real people?
I get the feeling from your question there is a lot of envy going on for these women who are different to you and not a great deal of love for yourself, i.e, love for your own unique personality and acceptance of that. You even say you bore people – what? Envy is a pernicious emotion where we want what others have (as opposed to jealousy where we want others to stay away from what we already possess) and it’s only real purpose, I think, is to show us where we have work to do on ourselves. The work for you here is – why do you specifically go after guys who are introverted? Why do you set yourself up for rejection? Why do you think you are boring and less-than? What specifically is it about extrovert women that you want for yourself?
If you can answer the above questions, you might find the answers are concrete things you can either accept, or act upon. I.e. “Well I think I’m boring because I often struggle having conversations with people due to my introversion. Therefore, since I want to be able to converse well, I will read more about current events, go on a public speaking course, insert thing that floats your boat here”.
A good therapist might be able to help you with this, and help with your splitting of people into ‘types’.
I always feel like life is this weird balancing act of saying to myself “yep, this is your personality, this is who you are, embrace that 100%” - and at exactly the same time recognising where my behaviours/thoughts are not useful and challenging them. It’s a dichotomy, but it is possible to accept yourself and change at the same time, in fact I have a sneaking suspicion that is essentially what maturing/growing wise, is.
You are both a wave and a particle. Accept the particle, change the waveform.
posted by mrmulliner at 2:47 AM on March 16, 2016 [47 favorites]
Also – I don’t mean to be harsh, but I have to say that I cannot abide the term ‘bubbly’ as it is applied to women. It’s condescending, patronising and derogatory. Might as well say feisty and flighty and have done with it. It would never be used to describe a man. Are you using it on purpose, maybe, to make these women more ephemeral, less like real people?
I get the feeling from your question there is a lot of envy going on for these women who are different to you and not a great deal of love for yourself, i.e, love for your own unique personality and acceptance of that. You even say you bore people – what? Envy is a pernicious emotion where we want what others have (as opposed to jealousy where we want others to stay away from what we already possess) and it’s only real purpose, I think, is to show us where we have work to do on ourselves. The work for you here is – why do you specifically go after guys who are introverted? Why do you set yourself up for rejection? Why do you think you are boring and less-than? What specifically is it about extrovert women that you want for yourself?
If you can answer the above questions, you might find the answers are concrete things you can either accept, or act upon. I.e. “Well I think I’m boring because I often struggle having conversations with people due to my introversion. Therefore, since I want to be able to converse well, I will read more about current events, go on a public speaking course, insert thing that floats your boat here”.
A good therapist might be able to help you with this, and help with your splitting of people into ‘types’.
I always feel like life is this weird balancing act of saying to myself “yep, this is your personality, this is who you are, embrace that 100%” - and at exactly the same time recognising where my behaviours/thoughts are not useful and challenging them. It’s a dichotomy, but it is possible to accept yourself and change at the same time, in fact I have a sneaking suspicion that is essentially what maturing/growing wise, is.
You are both a wave and a particle. Accept the particle, change the waveform.
posted by mrmulliner at 2:47 AM on March 16, 2016 [47 favorites]
Where are you meeting these men? If it's at parties and bars and places where there's a culture of being bubbly and fun with people you just met, I can understand why you're having trouble. It sounds like you'd be better off with somebody who already knows you a little. Have you tried online dating, where people who message you are ones who have read your profile and have some impression of you and your personality? Or what about meeting through common interests, like a local activity or meetup?
posted by chickenmagazine at 3:39 AM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by chickenmagazine at 3:39 AM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am a quirky introvert, I can be funny in a sarcastic way but in general, I prefer to "think" rather than "do". I can be fun only when I am comfortable around someone which can take months of seeing them regularly
This is who you are. A quirky, sarcastically fun, somewhat introverted thinker. Those are attractive character traits for many people.
The problem is not that you aren't "bubbly and outgoing". The problem is that your anxiety and insecurity are preventing you from being you when you meet people. If it takes you months to reach that point, Your anxiety is a real handicap in this game.
If I were you I'd see a therapist to work on how to become so confident, that you feel comfortable being yourself even with new people you meet. Imagine saying whatever you think without getting paralysed by possible consequences. Imagine feeling confident that whatever you say and do is going to be fine in the group you are in. Imagine being able to shrug it off if they don't get you.
This is totally feasible. Becoming a bubbly extrovert isn't.
And as a side note, this question sounds like the female version of the "girls always like bad guys" complaint. In both cases, it's not the aggression or the extraversion that's attractive. It's the confidence.
posted by Omnomnom at 4:08 AM on March 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
This is who you are. A quirky, sarcastically fun, somewhat introverted thinker. Those are attractive character traits for many people.
The problem is not that you aren't "bubbly and outgoing". The problem is that your anxiety and insecurity are preventing you from being you when you meet people. If it takes you months to reach that point, Your anxiety is a real handicap in this game.
If I were you I'd see a therapist to work on how to become so confident, that you feel comfortable being yourself even with new people you meet. Imagine saying whatever you think without getting paralysed by possible consequences. Imagine feeling confident that whatever you say and do is going to be fine in the group you are in. Imagine being able to shrug it off if they don't get you.
This is totally feasible. Becoming a bubbly extrovert isn't.
And as a side note, this question sounds like the female version of the "girls always like bad guys" complaint. In both cases, it's not the aggression or the extraversion that's attractive. It's the confidence.
posted by Omnomnom at 4:08 AM on March 16, 2016 [35 favorites]
The other side of the bubbly, outgoing, cheerleader type female is used-car salesman overbearing good old frat boy male. Would you want to be involved with a guy like that? Are these the kind of guys you did not really like but were in relationships with? No, that kind of guy is not going to go for an introverted intellectual woman, but there is nothing wrong with you as you are. Maybe there was something wrong with the guys who left you, or at least with a relationship that was not based on who you really are.
You just need to stop trying to be someone else as others have pointed out here, and also take a close look at what you find attractive in a partner. Would you be happy with a guy like yourself, who was quiet, not demonstrative, introverted, quirky? There are lots of guys like that out there, and believe me, they are not looking for a "bubbly" woman.
posted by mermayd at 4:40 AM on March 16, 2016
You just need to stop trying to be someone else as others have pointed out here, and also take a close look at what you find attractive in a partner. Would you be happy with a guy like yourself, who was quiet, not demonstrative, introverted, quirky? There are lots of guys like that out there, and believe me, they are not looking for a "bubbly" woman.
posted by mermayd at 4:40 AM on March 16, 2016
Men that tend to be drawn to me are extroverts and even though I can form a superficial connection to them, I feel like we can never have deep conversations
I suppose the phenomenon you're facing is really just average-dude attention, which is statistically the most likely thing to happen to people. The percentage of humans that are interested and able to conduct deep conversations is lower than one might assume. It sounds old, but waiting does help.
posted by Namlit at 5:16 AM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I suppose the phenomenon you're facing is really just average-dude attention, which is statistically the most likely thing to happen to people. The percentage of humans that are interested and able to conduct deep conversations is lower than one might assume. It sounds old, but waiting does help.
posted by Namlit at 5:16 AM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
You sound like Mrs. Mogur! Introverted, bookish man here, who met and married an introverted, bookish woman. So it is possible.
Idea: Most of our early interaction was via e-mail, giving us the chance to talk without being crippled by our habitual in-person shyness -- I suppose the kids these days would be texting?
posted by Mogur at 5:52 AM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Idea: Most of our early interaction was via e-mail, giving us the chance to talk without being crippled by our habitual in-person shyness -- I suppose the kids these days would be texting?
posted by Mogur at 5:52 AM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I can be fun only when I am comfortable around someone which can take months of seeing them regularly. I am really bad in early dating, I know I come across as anxious and awkward.
This is your problem. It sounds like it's your only problem. You can't and shouldn't try to change your core personality, but you can absolutely change this. It's a matter of confidence. And remember that in many ways, the secret to confidence is just telling yourself that failing is okay. Deal with the anxiety and convince yourself that you can be your fully quirky self even on the first date. If that turns your date off, so be it. Better sooner than later. No skin off your back.
This is a place that you can get to. Maybe with therapy, maybe just with a lot of self-directed practise. Eventually it will come naturally. Because remember, anxiety and hiding your personality ARE NOT part of your core personality. They are habits.
Oh, and at any point in the last six months did you ask out the guy you'd been crushing on? Tell him you were crushing on him? Because do that too. (With your next crush, not the one who is currently in a happy relationship.)
posted by 256 at 5:54 AM on March 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
This is your problem. It sounds like it's your only problem. You can't and shouldn't try to change your core personality, but you can absolutely change this. It's a matter of confidence. And remember that in many ways, the secret to confidence is just telling yourself that failing is okay. Deal with the anxiety and convince yourself that you can be your fully quirky self even on the first date. If that turns your date off, so be it. Better sooner than later. No skin off your back.
This is a place that you can get to. Maybe with therapy, maybe just with a lot of self-directed practise. Eventually it will come naturally. Because remember, anxiety and hiding your personality ARE NOT part of your core personality. They are habits.
Oh, and at any point in the last six months did you ask out the guy you'd been crushing on? Tell him you were crushing on him? Because do that too. (With your next crush, not the one who is currently in a happy relationship.)
posted by 256 at 5:54 AM on March 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
it's not the aggression or the extraversion that's attractive.
No, it is; it's very specifically the extraversion that is attractive to that subset of quiet nervous people who deliberately and intentionally date outgoing, friendly, easygoing people (who don't need to be confident at all, they can be pits of self loathing as long as they hide it well.) Much like the men the OP is attracted to, I love the socially incapable as people and as friends but I never date them because my rule is that if anybody gets to be like that in a relationship, it's going to be me. Two people alone together who can't carry a conversation is one too many. Some would say two too many.
However, I like people who strike me as basically like myself, personality-wise, and I don't class extroversion as a personality characteristic since it isn't one; it's just an ability that I don't myself have. So I really think that is the solution - believe me that a third type exists, men who are thoughtful and have depths and hidden worlds, but who also are chatty and smiley and keep their neuroses in some other compartment. They are hard to come by but they certainly exist. Is it possible that you don't have the "deep" conversations you want because you feel that someone who can talk easily to anyone isn't offering you anything special and individual when they talk easily to you?
I have immense sympathy for the desire to be with someone who is fundamentally like you, that you recognize as a fellow, and how upsetting it is to be, in turn, desired only for your differences and not your similarities to someone. If you already feel alienated in general it is dismal and it does seem to be a thing that men in particular do, for reasons that are somewhat opaque to me because I choose to be willfully ignorant about it . But the answer is to think of your core self as a separate thing from the manner in which you're able to express that self to others. & if you can make yourself believe that, you can choose to split men into those like you and those not like you, rather than into introverts and extroverts, and perhaps have more success with the former category once you broaden it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:58 AM on March 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
No, it is; it's very specifically the extraversion that is attractive to that subset of quiet nervous people who deliberately and intentionally date outgoing, friendly, easygoing people (who don't need to be confident at all, they can be pits of self loathing as long as they hide it well.) Much like the men the OP is attracted to, I love the socially incapable as people and as friends but I never date them because my rule is that if anybody gets to be like that in a relationship, it's going to be me. Two people alone together who can't carry a conversation is one too many. Some would say two too many.
However, I like people who strike me as basically like myself, personality-wise, and I don't class extroversion as a personality characteristic since it isn't one; it's just an ability that I don't myself have. So I really think that is the solution - believe me that a third type exists, men who are thoughtful and have depths and hidden worlds, but who also are chatty and smiley and keep their neuroses in some other compartment. They are hard to come by but they certainly exist. Is it possible that you don't have the "deep" conversations you want because you feel that someone who can talk easily to anyone isn't offering you anything special and individual when they talk easily to you?
I have immense sympathy for the desire to be with someone who is fundamentally like you, that you recognize as a fellow, and how upsetting it is to be, in turn, desired only for your differences and not your similarities to someone. If you already feel alienated in general it is dismal and it does seem to be a thing that men in particular do, for reasons that are somewhat opaque to me because I choose to be willfully ignorant about it . But the answer is to think of your core self as a separate thing from the manner in which you're able to express that self to others. & if you can make yourself believe that, you can choose to split men into those like you and those not like you, rather than into introverts and extroverts, and perhaps have more success with the former category once you broaden it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:58 AM on March 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
Who you are, as you are is just fine. I think what you need to change is the way you view the world, dating and people.
Let's talk about some problematic things:
Friendzone:
UGH! All this means is that you have unexpressed attraction to someone and they didn't magically read your mind about it, and since you never told them that you were into them, they've decided to pursue someone who DID tell them. For some reason, instead of moving on, you're still hanging around, waiting for crumbs from them, and hoping that one day they'll become free, realize that it's been YOU all along.
It's okay to be an introvert, but it's not okay to be a coward. No one likes rejection, but unless you're willing to put yourself out there and be honest with folks you want to date, this will happen on a continuing loop. (As you have discovered.)
If you like someone, tell them so. They might be shy too. If you get rejected, I promise, you'll live. Say something like, "Gosh Martin, I think you're the bees knees." See where it takes you.
Bubbly:
I sure hope you don't think that someone who is extroverted and who's not afraid to say what's on her mind and in her heart is also an airhead (bubbles) because that's what you're implying by using that kind of language. All people have different personalities, some of us are just naturally loud, happy and have lots of conversation. It doesn't make us dumb or bad. We're just different.
Pushing yourself to be with guys you don't like:
WHY? Why would you do that to yourself? Instead of pushing yourself to be with guys you don't connect with, why not push yourself to be with guys you DO connect with?
Not connecting with Extroverts:
While I think everyone has a type, it sounds like you've dismissed all of the Extroverts of the world as superficial and not worth the time to get to know. Do you delve into them deeply? Do you ask them important questions? Do you engage with extroverts on the same level you'd engage with an introvert? I'm not saying that all extroverts are capable of the kinds of conversations that you seem to crave, but some of us love that shit. Also, not all introverts are capable of it either.
Step back and really think about what you want in a person. Don't go by personality, go by character and by substance.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:12 AM on March 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
Let's talk about some problematic things:
Friendzone:
UGH! All this means is that you have unexpressed attraction to someone and they didn't magically read your mind about it, and since you never told them that you were into them, they've decided to pursue someone who DID tell them. For some reason, instead of moving on, you're still hanging around, waiting for crumbs from them, and hoping that one day they'll become free, realize that it's been YOU all along.
It's okay to be an introvert, but it's not okay to be a coward. No one likes rejection, but unless you're willing to put yourself out there and be honest with folks you want to date, this will happen on a continuing loop. (As you have discovered.)
If you like someone, tell them so. They might be shy too. If you get rejected, I promise, you'll live. Say something like, "Gosh Martin, I think you're the bees knees." See where it takes you.
Bubbly:
I sure hope you don't think that someone who is extroverted and who's not afraid to say what's on her mind and in her heart is also an airhead (bubbles) because that's what you're implying by using that kind of language. All people have different personalities, some of us are just naturally loud, happy and have lots of conversation. It doesn't make us dumb or bad. We're just different.
Pushing yourself to be with guys you don't like:
WHY? Why would you do that to yourself? Instead of pushing yourself to be with guys you don't connect with, why not push yourself to be with guys you DO connect with?
Not connecting with Extroverts:
While I think everyone has a type, it sounds like you've dismissed all of the Extroverts of the world as superficial and not worth the time to get to know. Do you delve into them deeply? Do you ask them important questions? Do you engage with extroverts on the same level you'd engage with an introvert? I'm not saying that all extroverts are capable of the kinds of conversations that you seem to crave, but some of us love that shit. Also, not all introverts are capable of it either.
Step back and really think about what you want in a person. Don't go by personality, go by character and by substance.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:12 AM on March 16, 2016 [25 favorites]
This is why online dating has really taken off, and the idea that "there is a reason" people date online has gone by the wayside.
I met my wife on Match.com. I am someone who would rather stay home than go out, and be with a woman who would rather stay home and talk on the couch rather than spend an hour putting on make-up to put on a show for guys at a bar, just to have nothing to do or talk about once they snag 'em.
How do two people who don't go out meet if they never go out? Well, online dating works great for this.
I do believe there is such thing as a type, though. My wife is 99% my type, really. And you will find someone for you, but you have to take down these barriers you have set up for yourself, first.
posted by TinWhistle at 6:26 AM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I met my wife on Match.com. I am someone who would rather stay home than go out, and be with a woman who would rather stay home and talk on the couch rather than spend an hour putting on make-up to put on a show for guys at a bar, just to have nothing to do or talk about once they snag 'em.
How do two people who don't go out meet if they never go out? Well, online dating works great for this.
I do believe there is such thing as a type, though. My wife is 99% my type, really. And you will find someone for you, but you have to take down these barriers you have set up for yourself, first.
posted by TinWhistle at 6:26 AM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some thoughts:
You might be ending up with less introverted guys because the guys who are more your “type” may also be less likely to make the first move, especially without clear signals from you, and I suspect that you’re unlikely to make the first move. Have you had any luck asking out the people you like? (I know how hard it is...)
As others have said, online dating might be especially effective for you. But it also might be effective for you to get to know someone pretty well before dating them. If you have friends you’re comfortable having fun with, attempting to expand your social circle around them might (a) make it easier for you to feel comfortable with a dating prospect before you start to date them, so you both have more fun together, and (b) make it clear to dating prospects that you are actually interesting, which might be hard for them to see otherwise. Can you think of places and events where you can comfortably hang out with your friends and get to know newer people?
Alternatively, do you do better in situations that are not one-on-one and where no one really knows anyone? It can feel like less pressure, and if it’s a class or something with a limited time frame, any social gaffs I might commit won’t haunt me socially forever, it’s easier for me to feel comfortable getting to know people.
posted by metasarah at 8:11 AM on March 16, 2016
You might be ending up with less introverted guys because the guys who are more your “type” may also be less likely to make the first move, especially without clear signals from you, and I suspect that you’re unlikely to make the first move. Have you had any luck asking out the people you like? (I know how hard it is...)
As others have said, online dating might be especially effective for you. But it also might be effective for you to get to know someone pretty well before dating them. If you have friends you’re comfortable having fun with, attempting to expand your social circle around them might (a) make it easier for you to feel comfortable with a dating prospect before you start to date them, so you both have more fun together, and (b) make it clear to dating prospects that you are actually interesting, which might be hard for them to see otherwise. Can you think of places and events where you can comfortably hang out with your friends and get to know newer people?
Alternatively, do you do better in situations that are not one-on-one and where no one really knows anyone? It can feel like less pressure, and if it’s a class or something with a limited time frame, any social gaffs I might commit won’t haunt me socially forever, it’s easier for me to feel comfortable getting to know people.
posted by metasarah at 8:11 AM on March 16, 2016
I agree with what's been said up top that you'll need to stop thinking of people in this harsh black and white way. Speaking as a fellow "quirky introvert," I would also describe myself as being fun and bubbly, but I definitely feel like I bore people too.
Instead, what specific qualities of introversion attract you? Someone who would prefer staying in on a Saturday vs. barhopping? A not-so chatty person? Perhaps you can hone in on those, and seek it out in your future partners.
Another suggestion is to put yourself in situations where you'll be with the same group of people for a time period at regular intervals, e.g. a class, league or club. Maybe you'll meet your type there, and they can get to know and enjoy the real you.
posted by ThatSox at 8:37 AM on March 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Instead, what specific qualities of introversion attract you? Someone who would prefer staying in on a Saturday vs. barhopping? A not-so chatty person? Perhaps you can hone in on those, and seek it out in your future partners.
Another suggestion is to put yourself in situations where you'll be with the same group of people for a time period at regular intervals, e.g. a class, league or club. Maybe you'll meet your type there, and they can get to know and enjoy the real you.
posted by ThatSox at 8:37 AM on March 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hey OP, I don't have any answers for you, because I can certainly relate to being an introvert who's attracted to extroverts, and being someone who takes awhile to show their real self to someone. I'm still trying to gain confidence myself. And for the record, I am a little surprised at how harsh some people are being about the word "bubbly." I can see the gender disparity issue (no, I would never use it to describe a guy), but I also think those who take issue with the word could be a little nicer in pointing the problem out to you. So I definitely empathize.
There's a great podcast I've found that talks a lot about dealing with anxiety, showing up as you are, developing confidence, etc.: Shrink for the Shy Guy.
Don't be fooled by the name--the things the host talks about are things that anyone who struggles with confidence can relate to.
posted by dean_deen at 8:44 AM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
There's a great podcast I've found that talks a lot about dealing with anxiety, showing up as you are, developing confidence, etc.: Shrink for the Shy Guy.
Don't be fooled by the name--the things the host talks about are things that anyone who struggles with confidence can relate to.
posted by dean_deen at 8:44 AM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: This is a point I've kind of struggled to articulate, even to myself over the years, so I apologize if it comes over too harsh. It really isn't meant harshly and I've been exactly where you are, so I have nothing but fond recognition behind it.
The thing is, that whole thought process of having "a type" that is fundamentally universally rejecting of YOU? That's a great little defense mechanism trick. What it's defending you, specifically, against, I and other internet strangers can't necessarily say.
In my case, it was defending against my deeply-ingrained self-loathing. If I could tell myself "oh, no, I am alas cursèd forever to love only those who could never love me! It is so fated!" then I never had to ever face any real rejection or consider whether I was possibly lovable on any level (because I might find that I was not, not even a little, and then I would die). And then I could waste infinite time pining over someone who was involved with someone else or just not into me and be like ALAS IT IS THE FATES. I also got to reject alllllllll the people who pursued me out of hand because if they were interested, then they were categorically NOT MY TYPE, because my type basically consisted of nothing except "Is cute and DOESN'T LIKE ME."
So I don't know if any of that clicks with you. But TL;DR in my experience, and that of my friends, getting hung up on a type that can never love you because Reasons is always your brain trying to protect you from something. So figure that thing out, and let that thing just completely break your heart entirely, and realize you don't die. That's kind of the only way out of it.
The other thing is that honestly it's just really fucking hard to find people to be in Real Super Love with. It's decently easy to find people you can like a lot or care about a lot, but Real Super Love is not that common and some folks never get to really experience it and reciprocate it and that is horrible and probably part of why the world is an awful place full of pain and rage.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
The thing is, that whole thought process of having "a type" that is fundamentally universally rejecting of YOU? That's a great little defense mechanism trick. What it's defending you, specifically, against, I and other internet strangers can't necessarily say.
In my case, it was defending against my deeply-ingrained self-loathing. If I could tell myself "oh, no, I am alas cursèd forever to love only those who could never love me! It is so fated!" then I never had to ever face any real rejection or consider whether I was possibly lovable on any level (because I might find that I was not, not even a little, and then I would die). And then I could waste infinite time pining over someone who was involved with someone else or just not into me and be like ALAS IT IS THE FATES. I also got to reject alllllllll the people who pursued me out of hand because if they were interested, then they were categorically NOT MY TYPE, because my type basically consisted of nothing except "Is cute and DOESN'T LIKE ME."
So I don't know if any of that clicks with you. But TL;DR in my experience, and that of my friends, getting hung up on a type that can never love you because Reasons is always your brain trying to protect you from something. So figure that thing out, and let that thing just completely break your heart entirely, and realize you don't die. That's kind of the only way out of it.
The other thing is that honestly it's just really fucking hard to find people to be in Real Super Love with. It's decently easy to find people you can like a lot or care about a lot, but Real Super Love is not that common and some folks never get to really experience it and reciprocate it and that is horrible and probably part of why the world is an awful place full of pain and rage.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:24 AM on March 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
I am definitely an introvert- I need time alone to recharge after a lot of socializing. However I can have a lot of fun socializing, but I had to grow into it. I'm still mostly quiet, often sarcastic, and spend much more time 1-on-1 with my boyfriend than going out and being the life of the party. I just got less awkward as I got older, and also knew when to say "sorry, I'm not up for a crazy party or bar scene tonight." Some things that help: Learning small talk to grease interactions; having a drink; having friends that I can sit with in a quiet corner of a party if need be; going home if I'm not feeling it and being okay with that. I'm still sincere, sometimes too brusque, certainly still awkward- I don't think I've changed much other than being more confident and comfortable with myself. There are tons of people who enjoy the company of quiet, intense people, but you'll meet plenty of people who don't along the way. Just let them go
posted by oneirodynia at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by oneirodynia at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2016
Well, sometimes 'be yourself' just doesn't work, you know? People often dispense this advice to all, but sometimes 'being yourself' can seriously narrow your dating pool. For some people, it can mean not getting out of there, being too shy, keeping people at a distance, or not interacting enough with people to be given half a chance to shine, yeah?
I mean, the adage is true in the sense that you don't really want to be involved with the kind of person who you'd need to pretend around, anyway. And that IS true. That's very true. The point of being yourself is twofold; one, it's a great bullshit filter for bad dates who may be after a certain 'cool girlfriend' or 'MPDG' type that doesn't really exist anyway, and two, it eliminates potential incompatibilities in personality that would be hidden if you acted differently.
So yes, you shouldn't pretend to have fundamentally different traits, because it is exhausting and while it may increase the quantity of your choices, it will severely decrease the quality of them. And it's not worth it.
But you said so yourself, that it takes you months for you to be comfortable with somebody. That you are anxious and awkward at first. That you're bad at early dating. So essentially, when you first get to know someone, you're actually not 'being yourself' at all-- you're kinda stepping back and hiding a lot. You aren't given the opportunity to actually be comfortably yourself around these people.
And that's what might be holding you back somewhat.
You shouldn't need to change, but you should absolutely try to push yourself out of your comfort zone, you should try to move past this early anxiousness, you should try and minimize your social awkwardness, because they're really not you, and it's not doing you any favors.
You say that they're attracted to bubbly party girls, and I guess that might be true. But I find that-- and yes, this is kind of over-used and trite advice-- it's not so much the extroversion and joie de vivre that people tend to flock to, mostly they're attracted to people who are confident in themselves and comfortable in their skin. You don't need have a personality transplant to cultivate those things in yourself. "I'm envious of women like that," is actually poor self-esteem talking. When he idolizes this woman's traits, and it depresses you-- it's the same thing. Don't compare yourself to other people. Sure, there's nothing wrong with being extroverted and such, as long as you understand there's nothing wrong with the opposite, either. It's not 'better' or 'worse' -- it's just different. She's not better than you. Being a quirky introvert is awesome. And frankly, he's in a new relationship and probably seeing her through the lens of love and adoration, which is hardly unbiased, anyway. Absolutely nobody is roses and sunshine forever-- ask me how I know.
Besides, if this guy is the kind of guy to be so easily distracted by another person, it probably wouldn't have worked long term anyway. What would have happened if he'd met this woman a year from now? What would he have done? It speaks less about you and more about what kind of person he is. I know you're hurting because of it, but it's better to know sooner than later, and frankly you probably dodged a bullet anyway.
But I do think you should work on your self confidence and self esteem a little. And perhaps do some social exercises so you can feel more comfortable and less anxious with people early on. You can do this with therapy, or with things like acting classes, or improv classes, or just meeting more people in social clubs or hobbies, etc. The point isn't to be someone else, it's so you can be comfortable being yourself sooner.
Also, maybe don't think in absolutes and labels so much. "I like introverted types who always go for extroverted types. Extroverted types love me but I force myself to be happy" is not a statistic. This is not fact; it's just your experience with relationships to date and you shouldn't define yourself by it. It isn't indicative of your future, so don't lose hope or be discouraged.
Think less of it as "X guys I like only go for Y girls and Y guys are meh but only like me" and more along the lines of people are people and they are multi-faceted and complex and unique, and just because there wasn't a connection with these kind of guys in your past, doesn't mean there won't ever be one. There's just as likely to be extroverts who you can have deep conversations with and introverts you can't, so don't limit yourself or judge too harshly.
And "I have never been a relationship with someone I truly liked even though I am in my 30s." Eeeh... that's not really so abnormal, you know? Some people are lucky and happen across a good match early on, but for most of us, it's difficult to find someone truly compatible. I'm your age-- It took me seven relationships and about 15 years to find someone I feel I connect with. And FWIW, would never in a million years have described my fiance as my 'type' in the past, and now and I look back and I think past me was being ridiculous, because he is so totally my 'type.'
Good luck and don't be discouraged.
posted by Dimes at 10:50 AM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, the adage is true in the sense that you don't really want to be involved with the kind of person who you'd need to pretend around, anyway. And that IS true. That's very true. The point of being yourself is twofold; one, it's a great bullshit filter for bad dates who may be after a certain 'cool girlfriend' or 'MPDG' type that doesn't really exist anyway, and two, it eliminates potential incompatibilities in personality that would be hidden if you acted differently.
So yes, you shouldn't pretend to have fundamentally different traits, because it is exhausting and while it may increase the quantity of your choices, it will severely decrease the quality of them. And it's not worth it.
But you said so yourself, that it takes you months for you to be comfortable with somebody. That you are anxious and awkward at first. That you're bad at early dating. So essentially, when you first get to know someone, you're actually not 'being yourself' at all-- you're kinda stepping back and hiding a lot. You aren't given the opportunity to actually be comfortably yourself around these people.
And that's what might be holding you back somewhat.
You shouldn't need to change, but you should absolutely try to push yourself out of your comfort zone, you should try to move past this early anxiousness, you should try and minimize your social awkwardness, because they're really not you, and it's not doing you any favors.
You say that they're attracted to bubbly party girls, and I guess that might be true. But I find that-- and yes, this is kind of over-used and trite advice-- it's not so much the extroversion and joie de vivre that people tend to flock to, mostly they're attracted to people who are confident in themselves and comfortable in their skin. You don't need have a personality transplant to cultivate those things in yourself. "I'm envious of women like that," is actually poor self-esteem talking. When he idolizes this woman's traits, and it depresses you-- it's the same thing. Don't compare yourself to other people. Sure, there's nothing wrong with being extroverted and such, as long as you understand there's nothing wrong with the opposite, either. It's not 'better' or 'worse' -- it's just different. She's not better than you. Being a quirky introvert is awesome. And frankly, he's in a new relationship and probably seeing her through the lens of love and adoration, which is hardly unbiased, anyway. Absolutely nobody is roses and sunshine forever-- ask me how I know.
Besides, if this guy is the kind of guy to be so easily distracted by another person, it probably wouldn't have worked long term anyway. What would have happened if he'd met this woman a year from now? What would he have done? It speaks less about you and more about what kind of person he is. I know you're hurting because of it, but it's better to know sooner than later, and frankly you probably dodged a bullet anyway.
But I do think you should work on your self confidence and self esteem a little. And perhaps do some social exercises so you can feel more comfortable and less anxious with people early on. You can do this with therapy, or with things like acting classes, or improv classes, or just meeting more people in social clubs or hobbies, etc. The point isn't to be someone else, it's so you can be comfortable being yourself sooner.
Also, maybe don't think in absolutes and labels so much. "I like introverted types who always go for extroverted types. Extroverted types love me but I force myself to be happy" is not a statistic. This is not fact; it's just your experience with relationships to date and you shouldn't define yourself by it. It isn't indicative of your future, so don't lose hope or be discouraged.
Think less of it as "X guys I like only go for Y girls and Y guys are meh but only like me" and more along the lines of people are people and they are multi-faceted and complex and unique, and just because there wasn't a connection with these kind of guys in your past, doesn't mean there won't ever be one. There's just as likely to be extroverts who you can have deep conversations with and introverts you can't, so don't limit yourself or judge too harshly.
And "I have never been a relationship with someone I truly liked even though I am in my 30s." Eeeh... that's not really so abnormal, you know? Some people are lucky and happen across a good match early on, but for most of us, it's difficult to find someone truly compatible. I'm your age-- It took me seven relationships and about 15 years to find someone I feel I connect with. And FWIW, would never in a million years have described my fiance as my 'type' in the past, and now and I look back and I think past me was being ridiculous, because he is so totally my 'type.'
Good luck and don't be discouraged.
posted by Dimes at 10:50 AM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'm reminded of the old Groucho Marx telegram: "I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER'."
Look, I had this as a big component of my dating life for a while, too, and it was rough - because I had so much self-loathing, I looked on anyone who desired me as somehow having some kind of fault that made them want to be with me. It's a nasty trick your mind plays on you when you're unhappy and lonely.
Dating people who I genuinely liked and who genuinely liked me was the ticket. If you don't like someone, don't date them. And don't resent the people who you are attracted to for being attracted to people who aren't you - it's exhausting.
posted by superlibby at 2:01 PM on March 17, 2016
Look, I had this as a big component of my dating life for a while, too, and it was rough - because I had so much self-loathing, I looked on anyone who desired me as somehow having some kind of fault that made them want to be with me. It's a nasty trick your mind plays on you when you're unhappy and lonely.
Dating people who I genuinely liked and who genuinely liked me was the ticket. If you don't like someone, don't date them. And don't resent the people who you are attracted to for being attracted to people who aren't you - it's exhausting.
posted by superlibby at 2:01 PM on March 17, 2016
First of all, "Hi, twin!"
I know that's a totally unhelpful comment, but I couldn't resist. This is the first time I've seen my own theory of dating articulated so clearly in print. It's true that the quiet withdrawn guys are drawn to bold, vivacious girls. But are you SURE you don't also want someone with a personality that complements your own? Plenty of extroverted guys are deep and thoughtful. Lots of reserved women are drawn to emotionally expressive guys (I know I am...).
Logical, unadventurous, timid, introverted female here. The last guy I tried to date was the same exact way -- and it was boring as hell for the both of us. You need at least ONE extrovert per relationship! That's my new theory. So get out there and date a range of types; don't limit yourself. You never know what magical combination might be the right one.
posted by Guinevere at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2016
I know that's a totally unhelpful comment, but I couldn't resist. This is the first time I've seen my own theory of dating articulated so clearly in print. It's true that the quiet withdrawn guys are drawn to bold, vivacious girls. But are you SURE you don't also want someone with a personality that complements your own? Plenty of extroverted guys are deep and thoughtful. Lots of reserved women are drawn to emotionally expressive guys (I know I am...).
Logical, unadventurous, timid, introverted female here. The last guy I tried to date was the same exact way -- and it was boring as hell for the both of us. You need at least ONE extrovert per relationship! That's my new theory. So get out there and date a range of types; don't limit yourself. You never know what magical combination might be the right one.
posted by Guinevere at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2016
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What is a healthy, adult relationship? Well, for starters, the bubbly manic pixie dream girl and the men who chase her is emphatically not it. But neither is the withdrawn and anxious socially awkward 30 something.
You need a healthy, strong, confident and relaxed balance. Maybe therapy will help, maybe exposure to more social situations. Maybe just reading a lot of self-help books with boring titles by people with PhDs. But your goal is to go through life with confidence, with wisdom, and with decisiveness.
This dichotomy you're forcing yourself into is very high school. Just try to be as mature and responsible as you possibly can. This means accepting responsibility for your social health and any issues with anxiety. This means having a healthy, if not large, social circle and presence in the community. This means being able to emotionally self-regulate and avoiding codependency.
posted by quincunx at 11:34 PM on March 15, 2016 [70 favorites]