So if this is too bad to stay... then what?
January 17, 2016 3:54 PM Subscribe
Last night I read the section on "Power People" in Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay and so much of it resonated with me that I underlined most of the chapter. But I have a young child with my Power Person spouse and am not sure what to do.
My apologies if this is long and rambling.
I am a late-twenties female that has been married to a late-twenties male for 3 years. We have a 14 -month-old-together.
The relationship has always been difficult, but it got much worse when I got pregnant (with our planned baby that came after multiple miscarriages and fertility issues). To keep this brief, my spouse treated me incredibly poorly during my pregnancy and chose not to be involved with our child for the first year of his life, although we were (and still are) living together. The reasons why he did this are still somewhat nebulous, although he expresses remorse for being "selfish", "immature", etc. He has always been controlling and this continues to be a very significant issue. He is now trying to help and bond with our son, which is going okay, but he doesn't seem willing or able (I'm not sure which) to try to address my feelings on anything else. He additionally has an alcohol problem that he is very resistant to working on.
I left once before at the 1 year mark, when his drinking and angry outbursts escalated to a level that really scared me. We worked with a counselor at that time, he made many promises to change, and I was still quite in love, so I moved back in a week after leaving. He went mostly back to his old behavior fairly quickly, with somewhat less drinking.
We are now working with a (different) counselor who seems very good and is seeing us as a couple and individually. For me, this is unfortunately bringing me a certain amount of clarity on the many problems in the relationship and how bad things have really been. I've let my social life disappear completely in the last few years and haven't talked openly with anyone about what's been going on, so finally talking about with another human has been both painful and a huge relief.
I'm not even sure if I love this person anymore, although I do like things about him. But he's been so mean and damaged my life so much, and I'm so sad for my son that he hasn't been the father I thought he would be. I used to believe he was My Person and we were a great fit, and that although he could be a little self-involved and extreme, he'd always be there for me. But during my pregnancy and first year post-partum, this was all turned completely on its head, as he talked seriously about getting a late-term abortion over a very minor medical issue, refused to help me after an emergency C-section, and was just flat mean to me as I struggled through the first year trying to make things work.
At this point, I am fairly confident that if I were childless, I would leave and never look back. The thought of living in my own place again and not having to argue over simply things (when we eat, where I'm going, what I'm buying, who am I talking to, what am I doing at work, etc. etc. etc.) sounds amazing. I loved living alone before we got together.
But I really don't know what is best for my son. I don't know what his dad will do, both short and long-term, if I leave. I don't know if he'll fight for custody and/or make the divorce process difficult or simply drop out of his life. I don't know how he would react if I asked for a divorce. I don't know if it's best to keep trying to make this work in hopes he can have an intact family in the future, or if staying together would actually be bad for him. I don't know if now my spouse will really try to be a decent parent, or if this is a short-term tactic to forestall me leaving.
I would like resources (books, websites, personal stories, anything really) about what the process of divorcing and leaving a relationship looks like when a child is involved and how it is likely to affect everyone involved. I need help thinking through the various aspects of this. I'm in WA state if it matters, and I realize that I will need a lawyer ASAP if I do decide to leave.
We both have well paying (me low 6 figures, him mid 6 figures) jobs and I have a very flexible schedule (I telecommute). I've done most and usually all of the childcare until recently (outside of the time he spends at preschool so I can work), so if I have to be a single mom, I can be without it being a huge shock to my system. I just don't know if that's the best thing or if this can still be saved.
I will add also that I'm very worried about doing the "right" thing here and I'm afraid that it's selfish to leave just because I'm unhappy when we have a family, house, and life together.
Help.
My apologies if this is long and rambling.
I am a late-twenties female that has been married to a late-twenties male for 3 years. We have a 14 -month-old-together.
The relationship has always been difficult, but it got much worse when I got pregnant (with our planned baby that came after multiple miscarriages and fertility issues). To keep this brief, my spouse treated me incredibly poorly during my pregnancy and chose not to be involved with our child for the first year of his life, although we were (and still are) living together. The reasons why he did this are still somewhat nebulous, although he expresses remorse for being "selfish", "immature", etc. He has always been controlling and this continues to be a very significant issue. He is now trying to help and bond with our son, which is going okay, but he doesn't seem willing or able (I'm not sure which) to try to address my feelings on anything else. He additionally has an alcohol problem that he is very resistant to working on.
I left once before at the 1 year mark, when his drinking and angry outbursts escalated to a level that really scared me. We worked with a counselor at that time, he made many promises to change, and I was still quite in love, so I moved back in a week after leaving. He went mostly back to his old behavior fairly quickly, with somewhat less drinking.
We are now working with a (different) counselor who seems very good and is seeing us as a couple and individually. For me, this is unfortunately bringing me a certain amount of clarity on the many problems in the relationship and how bad things have really been. I've let my social life disappear completely in the last few years and haven't talked openly with anyone about what's been going on, so finally talking about with another human has been both painful and a huge relief.
I'm not even sure if I love this person anymore, although I do like things about him. But he's been so mean and damaged my life so much, and I'm so sad for my son that he hasn't been the father I thought he would be. I used to believe he was My Person and we were a great fit, and that although he could be a little self-involved and extreme, he'd always be there for me. But during my pregnancy and first year post-partum, this was all turned completely on its head, as he talked seriously about getting a late-term abortion over a very minor medical issue, refused to help me after an emergency C-section, and was just flat mean to me as I struggled through the first year trying to make things work.
At this point, I am fairly confident that if I were childless, I would leave and never look back. The thought of living in my own place again and not having to argue over simply things (when we eat, where I'm going, what I'm buying, who am I talking to, what am I doing at work, etc. etc. etc.) sounds amazing. I loved living alone before we got together.
But I really don't know what is best for my son. I don't know what his dad will do, both short and long-term, if I leave. I don't know if he'll fight for custody and/or make the divorce process difficult or simply drop out of his life. I don't know how he would react if I asked for a divorce. I don't know if it's best to keep trying to make this work in hopes he can have an intact family in the future, or if staying together would actually be bad for him. I don't know if now my spouse will really try to be a decent parent, or if this is a short-term tactic to forestall me leaving.
I would like resources (books, websites, personal stories, anything really) about what the process of divorcing and leaving a relationship looks like when a child is involved and how it is likely to affect everyone involved. I need help thinking through the various aspects of this. I'm in WA state if it matters, and I realize that I will need a lawyer ASAP if I do decide to leave.
We both have well paying (me low 6 figures, him mid 6 figures) jobs and I have a very flexible schedule (I telecommute). I've done most and usually all of the childcare until recently (outside of the time he spends at preschool so I can work), so if I have to be a single mom, I can be without it being a huge shock to my system. I just don't know if that's the best thing or if this can still be saved.
I will add also that I'm very worried about doing the "right" thing here and I'm afraid that it's selfish to leave just because I'm unhappy when we have a family, house, and life together.
Help.
Best answer: But I really don't know what is best for my son.
Ask yourself: is your husband the male role model you want for your son? Do you want your son to to be on the receiving end of your husband's cruelty? Do you want him to witness his mother being treated with cruelty? Do you want him to grow up with the expectation that cruelty is a normal part of relationships?
If your answer to any of these is no, then you do know what's right for your son.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 4:00 PM on January 17, 2016 [74 favorites]
Ask yourself: is your husband the male role model you want for your son? Do you want your son to to be on the receiving end of your husband's cruelty? Do you want him to witness his mother being treated with cruelty? Do you want him to grow up with the expectation that cruelty is a normal part of relationships?
If your answer to any of these is no, then you do know what's right for your son.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 4:00 PM on January 17, 2016 [74 favorites]
You have nothing to gain by staying. Your kid does not need this dude as a role model. You sound so unhappy—there is nowhere to go but up.
posted by a strong female character at 4:03 PM on January 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by a strong female character at 4:03 PM on January 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
You have adequate resources to fund good legal support, no matter what your SO does in future. Or to move if you have to.
Even if that weren't the case, there is no way being a single parent is worse than staying with an abuser. If you stay, your kid will grow up fearing his dad and feeling unsafe. That will be the emotional tone that will be wired into him.
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:04 PM on January 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
Even if that weren't the case, there is no way being a single parent is worse than staying with an abuser. If you stay, your kid will grow up fearing his dad and feeling unsafe. That will be the emotional tone that will be wired into him.
posted by cotton dress sock at 4:04 PM on January 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
You seem to know full well what the next few years and beyond will look like if you stay (not good by the sounds of it, particularly since he's had plenty of opportunities to change and hasn't, so won't), and you have good experience of being alone so know what that alternative could look like (better). You have already made up your mind to leave I think, and it seems a very sensible decision for both you and your child. I think your clarity of decision making will help pull you through the inevitable challenges and heartache, and you will be much better off for it.
posted by Sevenisamagicnumber at 4:05 PM on January 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Sevenisamagicnumber at 4:05 PM on January 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm afraid that it's selfish to leave just because I'm unhappy.
Look, that's not selfish. That's sane. You want your child to grow up with happy parents. From what you've written here you have done hard work trying to resolve the issues in your marriage. It hasn't worked. Give yourself permission to be happy.
posted by frumiousb at 4:08 PM on January 17, 2016 [33 favorites]
Look, that's not selfish. That's sane. You want your child to grow up with happy parents. From what you've written here you have done hard work trying to resolve the issues in your marriage. It hasn't worked. Give yourself permission to be happy.
posted by frumiousb at 4:08 PM on January 17, 2016 [33 favorites]
I had a mentally ill parent whose problems went largely untreated and it ruined a good chunk of my life.
Your husband's response to becoming a parent is soundly in the wheelhouse of mentally and emotionally dysfunctional on a pretty extreme level. I'm surprised you have not mentioned domestic violence. Maybe you hinted at it and I missed it?
You're young. You can handle this. Get a lawyer and create a happy family life where your son is loved, nurtured, and safe. Parenting isn't for everyone, your husband sounds like one of these types. You did not fail, it's only bad if you stick around longer.
Also, you've tried. There has not been enough improvement to stick around. That's enough of a reason. Loss of trust effects how much you love someone. You deserve a loving home and family. This will never be that. You're awesome and courageous. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 4:10 PM on January 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Your husband's response to becoming a parent is soundly in the wheelhouse of mentally and emotionally dysfunctional on a pretty extreme level. I'm surprised you have not mentioned domestic violence. Maybe you hinted at it and I missed it?
You're young. You can handle this. Get a lawyer and create a happy family life where your son is loved, nurtured, and safe. Parenting isn't for everyone, your husband sounds like one of these types. You did not fail, it's only bad if you stick around longer.
Also, you've tried. There has not been enough improvement to stick around. That's enough of a reason. Loss of trust effects how much you love someone. You deserve a loving home and family. This will never be that. You're awesome and courageous. Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 4:10 PM on January 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
It is better to raise your son in a healthy, safe environment minus one parent than it is to keep him where there's no love, respect, or happiness. This is the time to be selfish because it will likely benefit your son a thousandfold.
posted by Hermione Granger at 4:16 PM on January 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 4:16 PM on January 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Nobody needs a mean alcoholic for a dad. The horse has already left the barn on that one, but you can protect your child from some day to day contact with this man, and you should.
posted by MsMolly at 4:21 PM on January 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 4:21 PM on January 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
I would like resources (books, websites, personal stories, anything really) about what the process of divorcing and leaving a relationship looks like when a child is involved and how it is likely to affect everyone involved. I need help thinking through the various aspects of this.
What do you want, in terms of custody? You will likely get at least 50% custody if you are a decent mother. If you want sole custody, get the best lawyer you can (do an online search, get references). Do what the lawyer tells you to do (don't run away with the child, don't act petty).
You telecommute. From a past post, I'm guessing you're still a programmer. This is a huge deal: you don't need to lean on your spouse/ex to be completely certain your child is in good hands. You scored the lottery here.
IANYL. Ideally, courts want both of you to play equally important roles in your child's life in the event of separation. You hint at emotional abuse, and concerns about drinking (intentionally, I'm guessing). Is there more? Document everything.
Yes, the divorce process will be hard. Hurtful things will be dredged up. Rally as much moral support as you can. Lean on your family and friends. It is easier to bring up a child if you are near extended family whom you can trust. Also, see a good therapist to help you through this (twice a month is not a huge time sink in what will be a busy time)
There are a ton of self help books/resources out there. You could do worse than starting with a search term like this: divorce action plan. A family lawyer/family therapist will point you to a bunch of resources.
You've just discovered that it's better, and easier, to rely on yourself. And life isn't what you wanted/planned it to be. But you're still young, and so close to where you first started out. Don't put another 2 or 5 or 10 years into this losing and painful investment. Use this one year to do a 180 in your life. It's a year that will be split into multiple stages: disappointment, denial, grief, hope, euphoria and more. Don't stay in a place where you slowly lose parts of yourself because you bought into something that you mistakenly thought could make you happy. The best part is you found out early. A TON of people stay in unhappy marriages. The only thing you need to make you is happy is watching your child grow into an amazing person. Don't expose your child to a bad influence and risk your child having a subpar future.
posted by kinoeye at 4:26 PM on January 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
What do you want, in terms of custody? You will likely get at least 50% custody if you are a decent mother. If you want sole custody, get the best lawyer you can (do an online search, get references). Do what the lawyer tells you to do (don't run away with the child, don't act petty).
You telecommute. From a past post, I'm guessing you're still a programmer. This is a huge deal: you don't need to lean on your spouse/ex to be completely certain your child is in good hands. You scored the lottery here.
IANYL. Ideally, courts want both of you to play equally important roles in your child's life in the event of separation. You hint at emotional abuse, and concerns about drinking (intentionally, I'm guessing). Is there more? Document everything.
Yes, the divorce process will be hard. Hurtful things will be dredged up. Rally as much moral support as you can. Lean on your family and friends. It is easier to bring up a child if you are near extended family whom you can trust. Also, see a good therapist to help you through this (twice a month is not a huge time sink in what will be a busy time)
There are a ton of self help books/resources out there. You could do worse than starting with a search term like this: divorce action plan. A family lawyer/family therapist will point you to a bunch of resources.
You've just discovered that it's better, and easier, to rely on yourself. And life isn't what you wanted/planned it to be. But you're still young, and so close to where you first started out. Don't put another 2 or 5 or 10 years into this losing and painful investment. Use this one year to do a 180 in your life. It's a year that will be split into multiple stages: disappointment, denial, grief, hope, euphoria and more. Don't stay in a place where you slowly lose parts of yourself because you bought into something that you mistakenly thought could make you happy. The best part is you found out early. A TON of people stay in unhappy marriages. The only thing you need to make you is happy is watching your child grow into an amazing person. Don't expose your child to a bad influence and risk your child having a subpar future.
posted by kinoeye at 4:26 PM on January 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
If you are planning to try for sole custody (which sounds like the right decision from where I sit) then you need to start documenting specific instances of his abusiveness, angry outbursts, and alcohol abuse. Bonus points if you have friends who can corroborate. You already know in your heart what you want for your son. Follow your instincts.
posted by Night_owl at 4:27 PM on January 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 4:27 PM on January 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
Do you see a change in his views with/after counseling? Do you think he gets how serious this is?
I want to be the optimist and think this is salvageable, but ... You should at least see a lawyer.
posted by Dashy at 4:30 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I want to be the optimist and think this is salvageable, but ... You should at least see a lawyer.
posted by Dashy at 4:30 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I could have written this question!
Once I started seeing a marriage counselor I got the confidence and the wake up call I needed to leave. That was almost 10 years ago.
My 10 year old daughter is thriving, her dad had remarried and seems happy. I am in a great relationship.
My advice: get yourself some legal advice or a lawyer and GET OUT! I promise you that it will be ok.
posted by Youremyworld at 4:34 PM on January 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Once I started seeing a marriage counselor I got the confidence and the wake up call I needed to leave. That was almost 10 years ago.
My 10 year old daughter is thriving, her dad had remarried and seems happy. I am in a great relationship.
My advice: get yourself some legal advice or a lawyer and GET OUT! I promise you that it will be ok.
posted by Youremyworld at 4:34 PM on January 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
It sounds like you really hate your husband and he doesn't feel any better about you. Why not end it and move on? Yes, it's good for a child to have two parents, but it's also terrible to model this type of relationship to your child. My parents had a rocky marriage that sounds a lot like yours. I don't remember a time that I didn't know they hated each other. The awareness that my parents couldn't stand each other and the lack of love in my family scarred me in ways I'm still coming to understand in my 30s.
Just end it now and let your child grow up in a world where he has a chance of understanding what love is.
posted by Sara C. at 4:36 PM on January 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Just end it now and let your child grow up in a world where he has a chance of understanding what love is.
posted by Sara C. at 4:36 PM on January 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
My soon to be ex husband was an entirely different kind of mindfuck, but my god, the tone of your post is so familiar to me that I can practically taste it. And I am so sorry because I know exactly how torturous it is to be there.
If there were some way I could return the favor and let you feel how utterly liberating it is to just *let all that awfulness GO*. Maybe look at my posting history to get a sense. You are making yourself crazy trying to heal this fucked up situation, and that is not hyperbole, and when you get to the point that you step free of it... The relief from not having to white-knuckle through, the relief of not having to hold it together and try to Do The Right Thing with your last shred of patience and effort when you are so tired and so hurt and you know--you KNOW--that there is no way in hell he would EVER work that hard on behalf of you and your baby, your family...
It's like coming back to life.
Please, if you haven't already, read Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That. I think you'll recognize so, so much. And you know that you and your baby deserve way better than what you're getting.
Consult a lawyer for sure, but it's hard for me to believe that a man who was completely uninvolved for the first year of the child's life is going to fight for custody. If you have witnesses to back you up I think you can go very far in keeping him at bay.
I'm so sorry. MeMail me if you need someone to talk to, through mail or phone.
posted by Sublimity at 4:54 PM on January 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
If there were some way I could return the favor and let you feel how utterly liberating it is to just *let all that awfulness GO*. Maybe look at my posting history to get a sense. You are making yourself crazy trying to heal this fucked up situation, and that is not hyperbole, and when you get to the point that you step free of it... The relief from not having to white-knuckle through, the relief of not having to hold it together and try to Do The Right Thing with your last shred of patience and effort when you are so tired and so hurt and you know--you KNOW--that there is no way in hell he would EVER work that hard on behalf of you and your baby, your family...
It's like coming back to life.
Please, if you haven't already, read Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That. I think you'll recognize so, so much. And you know that you and your baby deserve way better than what you're getting.
Consult a lawyer for sure, but it's hard for me to believe that a man who was completely uninvolved for the first year of the child's life is going to fight for custody. If you have witnesses to back you up I think you can go very far in keeping him at bay.
I'm so sorry. MeMail me if you need someone to talk to, through mail or phone.
posted by Sublimity at 4:54 PM on January 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
But during my pregnancy and first year post-partum, this was all turned completely on its head, as he talked seriously about getting a late-term abortion over a very minor medical issue, refused to help me after an emergency C-section, and was just flat mean to me as I struggled through the first year trying to make things work.
I am so angry at your husband after reading this, and I never get angry, never, but I'm livid. I'm so mad.He is a disgusting excuse for a human being. He will never change. It would be better that he drop out of the picture, IMO. I'm so upset that he treated you like that! This guy is garbage, and I'm so sorry to be so blunt about it but he is garbage. This isn't how anyone should treat anyone. I'm so sorry. It's not the alcohol making him like this---this is who he is and it is unforgivable how he's treated you. He makes me sick. He needs to wise the fuck up and doesn't deserve your love and kindness.
You did your best and you haven given him way too many chances already and he's taking advantage of you emotionally. He doesn't deserve you or your sympathy or your love.
Please Start making plans to leave him, don't let him know, and talk to people you trust to help you leave and support you emotionally. It will be hard, but it's time to leave him. Your son should witness and learn from you on how to love, not from your husband.
Also, whatever your husband does if you leave is not your problem. Channel that concern to your son. Your husband deserves no consideration. Leaving him is the best thing.
posted by discopolo at 4:57 PM on January 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
I am so angry at your husband after reading this, and I never get angry, never, but I'm livid. I'm so mad.He is a disgusting excuse for a human being. He will never change. It would be better that he drop out of the picture, IMO. I'm so upset that he treated you like that! This guy is garbage, and I'm so sorry to be so blunt about it but he is garbage. This isn't how anyone should treat anyone. I'm so sorry. It's not the alcohol making him like this---this is who he is and it is unforgivable how he's treated you. He makes me sick. He needs to wise the fuck up and doesn't deserve your love and kindness.
You did your best and you haven given him way too many chances already and he's taking advantage of you emotionally. He doesn't deserve you or your sympathy or your love.
Please Start making plans to leave him, don't let him know, and talk to people you trust to help you leave and support you emotionally. It will be hard, but it's time to leave him. Your son should witness and learn from you on how to love, not from your husband.
Also, whatever your husband does if you leave is not your problem. Channel that concern to your son. Your husband deserves no consideration. Leaving him is the best thing.
posted by discopolo at 4:57 PM on January 17, 2016 [15 favorites]
And no, you aren't at all being selfish. There is nothing better for your son than you feeling happy and healthy and free. He needs that sense from you so he can grow up in a happy environment.
posted by discopolo at 5:15 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by discopolo at 5:15 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why would you WANT to expose your precious child to this not-nice person? You guys go off, make a happy home and let your husband work on himself on his own time.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:36 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:36 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Realized I forgot to include a book recommendation: Cutting Loose: Why Women Who End Their Marriages Do So Well. It's a little dated, having been written in the late 90s, but I think it would still be very useful for you in addressing some of your fears.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:37 PM on January 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 5:37 PM on January 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
- "Children living with a step-parent or a lone parent are as happy as those living with two biological parents" (study of 12,877 UK children [pdf]): "We found that the family type had no significant effect on the happiness of the seven-year-olds or the 11-15 year olds...It's the quality of the relationships in the home that matters - not the family composition."
- Google Scholar results for the search phrase "children of alcoholics"
- Study of 2,017 children "examines variations in “safe, stable, and nurturing” relationships (SSNRs), including several forms of family perpetrated victimization, and documents associations between these factors and child trauma symptoms". Main finding: "Of all SSNR variables considered, emotional abuse and inconsistent or hostile parenting emerged as having the most powerful independent effects on child trauma symptoms."
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:40 PM on January 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
- Google Scholar results for the search phrase "children of alcoholics"
- Study of 2,017 children "examines variations in “safe, stable, and nurturing” relationships (SSNRs), including several forms of family perpetrated victimization, and documents associations between these factors and child trauma symptoms". Main finding: "Of all SSNR variables considered, emotional abuse and inconsistent or hostile parenting emerged as having the most powerful independent effects on child trauma symptoms."
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:40 PM on January 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
I wish my parents had divorced when I was a toddler. I'm 45 years old and I've wished that since I was about four. They're still married.
Home wasn't safe for me. My dad was/is emotionally and psychologically abusive to both me and my mom. I won't go into what exactly happened, but suffice it to say that I definitely have PTSD from my childhood and have spent years and years in therapy to get better. My very supportive, wonderful husband has been so incredibly patient with my heightened fight or flight reaction, my hyper self-critical feelings, and my deep-seated anxiety. I'm fairly certain that if I had had a safe space away from my father, I wouldn't be damaged.
My mother thought she was doing the right thing by keeping the family intact. She was wrong. You've given your spouse a chance to change his behavior. He hasn't. Get your kid out of the hell you're living in. Even if your husband gets partial custody, your son will have a safe space with you.
posted by cooker girl at 5:45 PM on January 17, 2016 [25 favorites]
Home wasn't safe for me. My dad was/is emotionally and psychologically abusive to both me and my mom. I won't go into what exactly happened, but suffice it to say that I definitely have PTSD from my childhood and have spent years and years in therapy to get better. My very supportive, wonderful husband has been so incredibly patient with my heightened fight or flight reaction, my hyper self-critical feelings, and my deep-seated anxiety. I'm fairly certain that if I had had a safe space away from my father, I wouldn't be damaged.
My mother thought she was doing the right thing by keeping the family intact. She was wrong. You've given your spouse a chance to change his behavior. He hasn't. Get your kid out of the hell you're living in. Even if your husband gets partial custody, your son will have a safe space with you.
posted by cooker girl at 5:45 PM on January 17, 2016 [25 favorites]
Red flags:
-"The relationship has always been difficult, but it got much worse when I got pregnant"
-"my spouse treated me incredibly poorly during my pregnancy"
-he "chose not to be involved with our child for the first year of his life"
-"He has always been controlling"
-"he doesn't seem willing or able (I'm not sure which) to try to address my feelings"
-"his drinking and angry outbursts escalated to a level that really scared me"
-"he made many promises to change"..."He went mostly back to his old behavior fairly quickly"
-"I've let my social life disappear completely in the last few years"
-"he's been so mean and damaged my life so much"
You sound like you are in a classic abusive relationship, and things will keep escalating after brief honeymoon periods where he professes to want to change. Just because he's in counseling with you, doesn't guarantee he will change. He may be doing it to pacify you. As you say, this might be a short-term tactic to forestall you from leaving again. In addition, your husband isn't taking responsibility for his behavior, including his drinking problem.
Please get out now, for both your and your son's sake. This is a toxic environment for you both. It is understandable you still like things about your husband. Things are never black and white. People aren't all good or all bad. He can express remorse, but it doesn't mean anything if his behavior doesn't change. Watch the feet, not the lips. When the bad outweighs the good, you need to face that reality and take action - one step at a time, with your counselor's help. For example, one first step would be to talk to a lawyer to find out what it would entail to get a divorce. You've left before, and you can do it again. Stay in the present, rather than worrying about what might happen in the future. The "right" thing is to protect yourself and your son. Stay strong.
posted by mountainpeak at 5:50 PM on January 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
-"The relationship has always been difficult, but it got much worse when I got pregnant"
-"my spouse treated me incredibly poorly during my pregnancy"
-he "chose not to be involved with our child for the first year of his life"
-"He has always been controlling"
-"he doesn't seem willing or able (I'm not sure which) to try to address my feelings"
-"his drinking and angry outbursts escalated to a level that really scared me"
-"he made many promises to change"..."He went mostly back to his old behavior fairly quickly"
-"I've let my social life disappear completely in the last few years"
-"he's been so mean and damaged my life so much"
You sound like you are in a classic abusive relationship, and things will keep escalating after brief honeymoon periods where he professes to want to change. Just because he's in counseling with you, doesn't guarantee he will change. He may be doing it to pacify you. As you say, this might be a short-term tactic to forestall you from leaving again. In addition, your husband isn't taking responsibility for his behavior, including his drinking problem.
Please get out now, for both your and your son's sake. This is a toxic environment for you both. It is understandable you still like things about your husband. Things are never black and white. People aren't all good or all bad. He can express remorse, but it doesn't mean anything if his behavior doesn't change. Watch the feet, not the lips. When the bad outweighs the good, you need to face that reality and take action - one step at a time, with your counselor's help. For example, one first step would be to talk to a lawyer to find out what it would entail to get a divorce. You've left before, and you can do it again. Stay in the present, rather than worrying about what might happen in the future. The "right" thing is to protect yourself and your son. Stay strong.
posted by mountainpeak at 5:50 PM on January 17, 2016 [9 favorites]
I am fairly confident that if I were childless, I would leave and never look back.
If that's the right answer for a full-grown educated successful adult, then it's doubly the right answer for a tiny, dependent little kid! GO.
Look, I have a 15mo old too. My mom's been visiting. It.... wasn't great. She's likely borderline, apparently doesn't like toddlers, he didn't take to her, and she spent a lot of time sulking (which reminds me, I need to schedule some therapy appointments - having a perpetually unhappy parent is *tough*). When she left a cloud lifted and he relaxed and is just... so much back to his happy self. And her behaviour in no way even begin to compares to your husbands. He's already learning weird rules and internalising and self-editing to keep him safe. He already sees you tense and unhappy (and that scary for a little kid!). As soon as you go and your kid realises that it's over - that he's safe and has a happy peaceful mom & home...he's going to blow your mind. Go. (For that matter, you'll probably blow your own mind!)
Lawyer up, and document - document - document.
(Also, knowing how hard the last 9mo + 15mo has been, I will nth discopolo that I am *pissed* for you. Kind husbands buy you sprite and make baked potatoes every night half your pregnancy because it's all you can eat. They give endless foot and back massages, and get you flowers, and hold your hand during labour, and take paternity leave. They understand that "all the chores" is an even swap with "breastfeeding an infant". They are so well bonded that when kiddo had a nightmare he gets both of us because he wanted dad AND boobie. THIS is what you deserve.)
Sorry, this answer is a bit rambling! Two short divorce stories.
My parents are divorced. Be mature, civilised, don't bitch or gossip to your kid. He'll wind up close to you, and see his father for what he is quickly.
My husbands dad is bipolar. His mom left when he was pretty little. She remarried a few years later and they're still married and my husband had a pretty good childhood. They're still married. My husband turned out awesome. The younger the kid is, the better! The only thing she could have done more would be to have moved interstate when they insisted he continue having access visits (which often didn't show for, etc). Go now, get full custody, and he won't even remember this awfulness.
Doing it by yourself is going to be a million times easier. This asshat isn't helping you, isn't even a neutral energy, he's just adding extra work!
posted by jrobin276 at 5:50 PM on January 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
If that's the right answer for a full-grown educated successful adult, then it's doubly the right answer for a tiny, dependent little kid! GO.
Look, I have a 15mo old too. My mom's been visiting. It.... wasn't great. She's likely borderline, apparently doesn't like toddlers, he didn't take to her, and she spent a lot of time sulking (which reminds me, I need to schedule some therapy appointments - having a perpetually unhappy parent is *tough*). When she left a cloud lifted and he relaxed and is just... so much back to his happy self. And her behaviour in no way even begin to compares to your husbands. He's already learning weird rules and internalising and self-editing to keep him safe. He already sees you tense and unhappy (and that scary for a little kid!). As soon as you go and your kid realises that it's over - that he's safe and has a happy peaceful mom & home...he's going to blow your mind. Go. (For that matter, you'll probably blow your own mind!)
Lawyer up, and document - document - document.
(Also, knowing how hard the last 9mo + 15mo has been, I will nth discopolo that I am *pissed* for you. Kind husbands buy you sprite and make baked potatoes every night half your pregnancy because it's all you can eat. They give endless foot and back massages, and get you flowers, and hold your hand during labour, and take paternity leave. They understand that "all the chores" is an even swap with "breastfeeding an infant". They are so well bonded that when kiddo had a nightmare he gets both of us because he wanted dad AND boobie. THIS is what you deserve.)
Sorry, this answer is a bit rambling! Two short divorce stories.
My parents are divorced. Be mature, civilised, don't bitch or gossip to your kid. He'll wind up close to you, and see his father for what he is quickly.
My husbands dad is bipolar. His mom left when he was pretty little. She remarried a few years later and they're still married and my husband had a pretty good childhood. They're still married. My husband turned out awesome. The younger the kid is, the better! The only thing she could have done more would be to have moved interstate when they insisted he continue having access visits (which often didn't show for, etc). Go now, get full custody, and he won't even remember this awfulness.
Doing it by yourself is going to be a million times easier. This asshat isn't helping you, isn't even a neutral energy, he's just adding extra work!
posted by jrobin276 at 5:50 PM on January 17, 2016 [11 favorites]
If he is going to be a good dad for your son, he'll be a good divorced dad. He will go to therapy, work on getting the hours to see him when he has custody, try to be as involved and caring as possible and work with you on co-parenting. If he can't put your son before his need to control you or his own desires, he's going to be a lousy dad either married to you or divorced. You can't make him a better dad by being a better wife, this is a terrible and painful truth you have to accept and grieve. Your child has lost something that he should have had and it will hurt your son and break his heart someday when he is much older and has to deal with having a lousy dad, but you can't fix that. You can hope it won't be so bad, you can protect your son for a long and healthy childhood, and you can give your ex the grace of co-parenting time to get his act together if he works at it. But you can't fix your ex by twisting yourself up.
Therapy, lawyer, friends. Nanny to help with childcare so you aren't exhausted.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:06 PM on January 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
Therapy, lawyer, friends. Nanny to help with childcare so you aren't exhausted.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:06 PM on January 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
You don't have to get divorced right away, especially if you're not financially dependent on him. Start with a separation and see how that's working out for you and the kid (although with him earning around half a million a year, it's likely that you will have to adjust your and your son's lifestyles accordingly based on your income).
posted by halogen at 6:49 PM on January 17, 2016
posted by halogen at 6:49 PM on January 17, 2016
Be happy. Raise a happy child.
But you can't do that in the situation you're in.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:59 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
But you can't do that in the situation you're in.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:59 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Having a controlling, abusive father is not better than having an absent father. And having a father who hates women enough to treat you like he did during your pregnancy and early motherhood is absolutely not good for your son. Think about what he'll learn from his father if you stay.
My father was controlling and selfish and unreasonable, but not as abusive as your husband. It was a relief when he left.
posted by Mavri at 8:49 PM on January 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
My father was controlling and selfish and unreasonable, but not as abusive as your husband. It was a relief when he left.
posted by Mavri at 8:49 PM on January 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
Your can still save your marriage but you have to do it like an adult.
Cut the therapy crap and sit with your husband to make a list of things that need to change. Tell him you're meaning it and tell him why his attitude is unhealthy. Then see how it goes from there. If your one week of separation prompted him to alter his behaviour, then the prospect of divorce should be an eye opener.
Good luck!
posted by Kwadeng at 11:33 PM on January 17, 2016
Cut the therapy crap and sit with your husband to make a list of things that need to change. Tell him you're meaning it and tell him why his attitude is unhealthy. Then see how it goes from there. If your one week of separation prompted him to alter his behaviour, then the prospect of divorce should be an eye opener.
Good luck!
posted by Kwadeng at 11:33 PM on January 17, 2016
I'm afraid that it's selfish to leave just because I'm unhappy when we have a family, house, and life together.
You know what is awesome when you are a kid? a happy mom. There is nothing selfish about providing that for your son.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:02 AM on January 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
You know what is awesome when you are a kid? a happy mom. There is nothing selfish about providing that for your son.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:02 AM on January 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
You say "the relationship has always been difficult" and that he is selfish and mean. From your examples, I am HORRIFIED by the poor treatment you have endured.
This cannot be fixed. You have 2 life vests only, and you need to use them for yourself and your child!
Run, Run, Run away from this marriage. Be smart (lawyer) and safe. But get out now!
posted by fourpotatoes at 3:16 AM on January 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
This cannot be fixed. You have 2 life vests only, and you need to use them for yourself and your child!
Run, Run, Run away from this marriage. Be smart (lawyer) and safe. But get out now!
posted by fourpotatoes at 3:16 AM on January 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
So let me recap. You've been married 3 years, have been trying for a baby together most of that time, since you had miscarriages, and then you spent 9 months pregnant, your husband refused to do what any decent human being on the planet would do for a new mum who's had major abdominal surgery, then lived with you for a YEAR while you raised your & his newborn and infant child without helping or being loving, while escalating drinking and violence. You left for a week, he supposedly reformed, and it's now about 3 months later and he still has no interest in your feelings.
There is one right thing to do here and it is to end the marriage, such as it is -- you're concerned with doing the right thing for a guy who was mean to you during a pregnancy and post-partum period?? -- and fight for as much custody as you can get. Document everything.
I am so sorry this is happening to you but here it is straight: this isn't a marriage except on paper and in part of your mind. He is behaving neither like a spouse nor like family and his slight improvement doesn't mean much. Parenting gets easier in terms of sleep etc. from here but you will have a tantrum-throwing toddler, a five year old scared of monsters, a 9 year old going to friends' houses and coming back home asking why your family doesn't X like George's. It gets more intensely about your kid's spirit from here and your legal spouse has already demonstrated that he is a callous human being with no degree of empathy for those supposedly closest to him. The best thing you can do is protect your family, you and your child, from his daily lack of basic kindness.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:27 AM on January 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
There is one right thing to do here and it is to end the marriage, such as it is -- you're concerned with doing the right thing for a guy who was mean to you during a pregnancy and post-partum period?? -- and fight for as much custody as you can get. Document everything.
I am so sorry this is happening to you but here it is straight: this isn't a marriage except on paper and in part of your mind. He is behaving neither like a spouse nor like family and his slight improvement doesn't mean much. Parenting gets easier in terms of sleep etc. from here but you will have a tantrum-throwing toddler, a five year old scared of monsters, a 9 year old going to friends' houses and coming back home asking why your family doesn't X like George's. It gets more intensely about your kid's spirit from here and your legal spouse has already demonstrated that he is a callous human being with no degree of empathy for those supposedly closest to him. The best thing you can do is protect your family, you and your child, from his daily lack of basic kindness.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:27 AM on January 18, 2016 [7 favorites]
I left a longterm relationship when my son was three years old. I was deeply unhappy but wanted to do the "right" thing so I stayed until I was completely miserable. I regret not leaving sooner.
My son was stressed by the moves that the break-up necessitated which was hard, and we all had to adjust to shared custody but within a few months he was largely back to his happy self, today I can say with much more confidence that it was the right choice but I have never seriously considered going back, trust your gut.
My ex is still difficult in the ways he was difficult while we were together, but I am buffered from it and can be more resilient to it now, and my son benefits tremendously from that. Single parenting is hard but it sounds like you have the resources to make the best of it (and truly you've been doing that this whole time, as I was to an extent). I have never resented being on my own versus living with someone so difficult.
If I were you I'd get the best divorce/custody lawyer and try to get full custody, if your ex wants to be a father he can keep a relationship with your son via a court-ordered visitation schedule and get sober.
posted by lafemma at 10:04 AM on January 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
My son was stressed by the moves that the break-up necessitated which was hard, and we all had to adjust to shared custody but within a few months he was largely back to his happy self, today I can say with much more confidence that it was the right choice but I have never seriously considered going back, trust your gut.
My ex is still difficult in the ways he was difficult while we were together, but I am buffered from it and can be more resilient to it now, and my son benefits tremendously from that. Single parenting is hard but it sounds like you have the resources to make the best of it (and truly you've been doing that this whole time, as I was to an extent). I have never resented being on my own versus living with someone so difficult.
If I were you I'd get the best divorce/custody lawyer and try to get full custody, if your ex wants to be a father he can keep a relationship with your son via a court-ordered visitation schedule and get sober.
posted by lafemma at 10:04 AM on January 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
That kind of role model and seeing you in that kind of negative relationship - basically, growing up believing those are "normal" - are NOT good for your child.
Staying together "for the child(ren)" is often the worst thing for children.
posted by stormyteal at 8:26 PM on January 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Staying together "for the child(ren)" is often the worst thing for children.
posted by stormyteal at 8:26 PM on January 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
I sometimes think AskMetafilter can be too quick to recommend divorce and too unwilling to see the ways in which it can be harmful in certain scenarios, and even I think you should meet with a lawyer and plan for the safest and best way to leave your husband and limit his custody as much as possible. Maybe it makes sense for other people in totally different situations to stay together for the kids, but it doesn't for you. Your husband is a cruel, troubled person and it will be better for your son if you aren't living with him. It won't be good for him to see his mother ground down by years and years of cruel treatment. Hopefully, divorce will also limit your son's exposure to his father. Even if end up having to share more time than you would like (it doesn't seem like he's that interested, but maybe he'll fight you out of spite), at least your son will have a healthy, stable, and safe home part of the time.
posted by Area Man at 6:27 AM on January 19, 2016
posted by Area Man at 6:27 AM on January 19, 2016
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