Dealing with overbearing sibling of boyfriend
September 6, 2015 7:40 PM Subscribe
My boyfriend and I have been together a very very long time and its been a rough road for the past few years because of his excessive need for space and distance, and his need to socialize with friends when are together. We were both ambivalent towards the notion of marriage earlier but are now working towards it. After living for many years in a long distance relationship we are now living together in the same city as his sister. She is fundamentally a kind and generous person but not someone I'd independently be friends. My problem is since my boyfriend moved into the city they have both been rather aggressive about spending time with each other with my boyfriend mostly unable but often unwilling to set boundaries and carve the space we need. More inside.....
My BF, his sister and I are all in our mid to late 30s - they lost their father suddenly 3 years ago and I was extremely supportive of my boyfriend and his family in the aftermath of the death which revealed several loose ends financially in our home country.
Since we moved back to the States and finally together in the same city as his sister where we are sharing a home for the first time, my boyfriend has been extremely committed to spending time with his sister, mostly on her schedule. 90% of the time she initiates the getting-together. This has amounted to 2-3 times per week with extremely busy work schedules where we often only see each other for an hour or two before bed on week nights.
His sister is self-confessedly someone who seeks going out as a way of releasing stress. (We are all highly educated, but my boyfriend and I are more from a creative and humanities background and his sister is purely professional so this raises some differences which are honestly not our real problem.) So she texts her brother to meet for lunch or dinner, if I resist I can be sure on the following days, especially on weekends the requests will mount till we do meet, or if my boyfriend goes and meets her alone. So I say no to friday evening, the next text message is to ask about brunch on saturday, if not then dinner, if not brunch on sunday and so on.
The reason I resist hanging out with her is that for years I have heard her drone on singularly about their family and community which is a small but well off minority where we come, and go on and on about their superiority. ( this is a view point my boyfriend does not share) Not only is it the same stories which one can expect in a family setting, there is little other conversation. I feel like a captive audience, and a rather dispensable one too, she and her brother would be happy to hang out alone. Mostly when the 3 of us meet they find it ok to takes selfies together, sit next to each other while I sit across the table, discuss family matters. She evinces no curiosity about the work, life or family of anyone else. She cuts into the middle of a sentence or a topic, randomly switches off when someone else is talking or telling a story and its all laughed away as her having a short attention span. I have decided that I don't need to subjected to such behavior every week or weekend.
His sister recently got married in the city we live in and I graciously helped with the wedding, hosted their mom and other guests from overseas and did it without malice - i didn't feel pressured at all and the extended family is rather warm towards me. Her husband has a new job in another city and lives there, she will be here for another few months before she moves. This has all been decided relatively recently, and their behavior far predates her plans to move out of the city.
She has also not held back from asking me what my boyfriend and I were doing a certain evening when we declined hanging out with her. Which brings me to the other part of the problem - my boyfriend.
He refuses to set boundaries. He feels he has to lie to her and say we're running errands when we're just going bike riding if she has inquired several times about us all going to brunch that afternoon. I don't understand why he can't tell her we have other plans, or just say we're going bike riding without feeling the need to invite her - we are in our mid 30s ( my generation really needs to grow up) !!
My boyfriend keeps invoking his father's passing and his sister's need for comfort, but after 3 years its has put an unacceptable strain on my relationship which needed healing and has only been further damaged. He says he does not expect me to come along, which is all well and good, except regardless of whether I go or not they feel the need to meet 2-3 times every week which I find a bit much in the the current state of my relationship, and if I resist I feel this pressure where I can expect that if 3 days have passed and my boyfriend hasn't met his sister, he will have to see her on the 4th day. And within 3-4 days of that they same cycle starts back up. If he declines twice in a row she gets upset with him.
I don't need to co-exist another women in his life who can throw a fit over nothing and say to him " fine, call me when you have time for me!" and hang up on him. Not when he has met her just 2-3 days back. I have reached the point where this is a massive issue in our relationship. I've been warm to his family, and never rude to his sister to her face ( she has mostly maintained the same decorum towards me but not always). But now I'm very bitter about her presence in our lives which is hurting our relationship. BTW I have spent a fair bit of time with my BF's mother to lives in our home country - and have no issues with her. She's not aggressive at all, and while we're not on the same wavelength it hasn't bothered our relationship, we seem to able to co-exist.
In-laws type issues are legion - I'm sure many of you have faced similar problems, and many of the partners must have trouble standing up to their own family members, or worse a blindness towards the S/O's needs or discomfort. How have you guys dealt with similar situations?
My BF, his sister and I are all in our mid to late 30s - they lost their father suddenly 3 years ago and I was extremely supportive of my boyfriend and his family in the aftermath of the death which revealed several loose ends financially in our home country.
Since we moved back to the States and finally together in the same city as his sister where we are sharing a home for the first time, my boyfriend has been extremely committed to spending time with his sister, mostly on her schedule. 90% of the time she initiates the getting-together. This has amounted to 2-3 times per week with extremely busy work schedules where we often only see each other for an hour or two before bed on week nights.
His sister is self-confessedly someone who seeks going out as a way of releasing stress. (We are all highly educated, but my boyfriend and I are more from a creative and humanities background and his sister is purely professional so this raises some differences which are honestly not our real problem.) So she texts her brother to meet for lunch or dinner, if I resist I can be sure on the following days, especially on weekends the requests will mount till we do meet, or if my boyfriend goes and meets her alone. So I say no to friday evening, the next text message is to ask about brunch on saturday, if not then dinner, if not brunch on sunday and so on.
The reason I resist hanging out with her is that for years I have heard her drone on singularly about their family and community which is a small but well off minority where we come, and go on and on about their superiority. ( this is a view point my boyfriend does not share) Not only is it the same stories which one can expect in a family setting, there is little other conversation. I feel like a captive audience, and a rather dispensable one too, she and her brother would be happy to hang out alone. Mostly when the 3 of us meet they find it ok to takes selfies together, sit next to each other while I sit across the table, discuss family matters. She evinces no curiosity about the work, life or family of anyone else. She cuts into the middle of a sentence or a topic, randomly switches off when someone else is talking or telling a story and its all laughed away as her having a short attention span. I have decided that I don't need to subjected to such behavior every week or weekend.
His sister recently got married in the city we live in and I graciously helped with the wedding, hosted their mom and other guests from overseas and did it without malice - i didn't feel pressured at all and the extended family is rather warm towards me. Her husband has a new job in another city and lives there, she will be here for another few months before she moves. This has all been decided relatively recently, and their behavior far predates her plans to move out of the city.
She has also not held back from asking me what my boyfriend and I were doing a certain evening when we declined hanging out with her. Which brings me to the other part of the problem - my boyfriend.
He refuses to set boundaries. He feels he has to lie to her and say we're running errands when we're just going bike riding if she has inquired several times about us all going to brunch that afternoon. I don't understand why he can't tell her we have other plans, or just say we're going bike riding without feeling the need to invite her - we are in our mid 30s ( my generation really needs to grow up) !!
My boyfriend keeps invoking his father's passing and his sister's need for comfort, but after 3 years its has put an unacceptable strain on my relationship which needed healing and has only been further damaged. He says he does not expect me to come along, which is all well and good, except regardless of whether I go or not they feel the need to meet 2-3 times every week which I find a bit much in the the current state of my relationship, and if I resist I feel this pressure where I can expect that if 3 days have passed and my boyfriend hasn't met his sister, he will have to see her on the 4th day. And within 3-4 days of that they same cycle starts back up. If he declines twice in a row she gets upset with him.
I don't need to co-exist another women in his life who can throw a fit over nothing and say to him " fine, call me when you have time for me!" and hang up on him. Not when he has met her just 2-3 days back. I have reached the point where this is a massive issue in our relationship. I've been warm to his family, and never rude to his sister to her face ( she has mostly maintained the same decorum towards me but not always). But now I'm very bitter about her presence in our lives which is hurting our relationship. BTW I have spent a fair bit of time with my BF's mother to lives in our home country - and have no issues with her. She's not aggressive at all, and while we're not on the same wavelength it hasn't bothered our relationship, we seem to able to co-exist.
In-laws type issues are legion - I'm sure many of you have faced similar problems, and many of the partners must have trouble standing up to their own family members, or worse a blindness towards the S/O's needs or discomfort. How have you guys dealt with similar situations?
Her husband has a new job in another city and lives there, she will be here for another few months before she moves.
Is this not a self-solving problem then?
posted by DarlingBri at 7:51 PM on September 6, 2015 [26 favorites]
Is this not a self-solving problem then?
posted by DarlingBri at 7:51 PM on September 6, 2015 [26 favorites]
You kind of buried the lede, "...she will be here for another few months before she moves."
It just sounds like he's trying to spend time with her in the brief period before she leaves. Do you have any reason to suspect that she will continue to try to monopolize his time when they live in different cities?
posted by builderofscience at 7:52 PM on September 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
It just sounds like he's trying to spend time with her in the brief period before she leaves. Do you have any reason to suspect that she will continue to try to monopolize his time when they live in different cities?
posted by builderofscience at 7:52 PM on September 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
It sounds as though you and your boyfriend have different expectations of family relationships. He's on board with near daily contact with his sibling. Plenty of people are fine with that and even enjoy that level of closeness. You don't want that kind of contact with his family. Less frequent contact is also a reasonable expectation.
You are asking him to choose between his sister and you. You articulated this in a very competitive way. You don't want to " to co-exist another women in his life." You may not have to co-exist with here. If the battle lines are drawn, I'd pick my sibling over just about anyone and we're not nearly as close as your boyfriend and his sister.
She's there for a specific amount of time. You could opt out and allow them to have sibling time without feeling hacked off about it. You've decided that their level of closeness and contact offends you and you're asking him to give up the relationship he feels is appropriate. He is not refusing to set boundaries. He feels the existing boundaries are correct for him.
You are fighting a losing battle. He knows what you want and has decided to continue seeing his sister as he wants. Can you not allow them their sibling time? They don't demand you attend.
Expectations about family - whether families of origin or the family of friendships you create - have a big influence on your level of happiness with your partner. It gets to be a bigger issue that longer you are together (parents age and need care, someone has kids). It sounds as though you are so fundamentally mismatched here that you might not be able to make it for the long haul.
posted by 26.2 at 8:20 PM on September 6, 2015 [26 favorites]
You are asking him to choose between his sister and you. You articulated this in a very competitive way. You don't want to " to co-exist another women in his life." You may not have to co-exist with here. If the battle lines are drawn, I'd pick my sibling over just about anyone and we're not nearly as close as your boyfriend and his sister.
She's there for a specific amount of time. You could opt out and allow them to have sibling time without feeling hacked off about it. You've decided that their level of closeness and contact offends you and you're asking him to give up the relationship he feels is appropriate. He is not refusing to set boundaries. He feels the existing boundaries are correct for him.
You are fighting a losing battle. He knows what you want and has decided to continue seeing his sister as he wants. Can you not allow them their sibling time? They don't demand you attend.
Expectations about family - whether families of origin or the family of friendships you create - have a big influence on your level of happiness with your partner. It gets to be a bigger issue that longer you are together (parents age and need care, someone has kids). It sounds as though you are so fundamentally mismatched here that you might not be able to make it for the long haul.
posted by 26.2 at 8:20 PM on September 6, 2015 [26 favorites]
I'd be majorly worried about the fact that he's not being honest with his sister about the time he spends with you. His sister may move, but that's a character trait that's going to stick around, and it may already be a part of how he relates to you. Are you sure this excessive need for space of his isn't him passively trying to end your relationship?
posted by alphanerd at 8:41 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by alphanerd at 8:41 PM on September 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
You can't make someone else enforce boundaries for you - you've got to enforce the boundaries you want for yourself.
It sounds like the easiest way to deal with this temporary situation is to decide exactly what you can accept (and it's important that you set your level of contact at a point where you're not growing increasingly angry and resentful - if that's pretty much zero contact with this person then so be it). Then explain to your boyfriend how you feel and what you need. I think once per week or once every two weeks is a reasonable expectation.
I understand what it's like having a busy work schedule - a lot of nights I come home and only 'see' my husband asleep in bed, but I find that I'm happier and healthier if I take some time to myself to do things I enjoy as well. I bet if you used that time to go sew quilts or work out at the gym or whatever, you'd get far more enjoyment out of the other 5 days a week that you do get to see him.
It also sounds like his sister is overbearing, manipulative and argumentative, and if telling her that you're running errands is all it takes to get her off his back, I think you should allow him to tell that white lie as often as he needs to.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:50 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
It sounds like the easiest way to deal with this temporary situation is to decide exactly what you can accept (and it's important that you set your level of contact at a point where you're not growing increasingly angry and resentful - if that's pretty much zero contact with this person then so be it). Then explain to your boyfriend how you feel and what you need. I think once per week or once every two weeks is a reasonable expectation.
I understand what it's like having a busy work schedule - a lot of nights I come home and only 'see' my husband asleep in bed, but I find that I'm happier and healthier if I take some time to myself to do things I enjoy as well. I bet if you used that time to go sew quilts or work out at the gym or whatever, you'd get far more enjoyment out of the other 5 days a week that you do get to see him.
It also sounds like his sister is overbearing, manipulative and argumentative, and if telling her that you're running errands is all it takes to get her off his back, I think you should allow him to tell that white lie as often as he needs to.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 8:50 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Reading that, I mostly wonder if the problem is what he is sharing with her or what he is not sharing with you.
It seems like you are feeling slighted and insecure for a number of reasons between the two of you but then using his relationship with his sister as a foil. For example, you complain that they find it acceptable to take selfies together, sit next to each other, and discuss family matters. What is unacceptable about siblings doing any of those things? If he's doing them at the expense of concerns you've voiced, it's different. But taking selfies with a relative doesn't count as being overbearing. If he is dismissive of your needs, though, that is a problem.
posted by mermaidcafe at 8:51 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
It seems like you are feeling slighted and insecure for a number of reasons between the two of you but then using his relationship with his sister as a foil. For example, you complain that they find it acceptable to take selfies together, sit next to each other, and discuss family matters. What is unacceptable about siblings doing any of those things? If he's doing them at the expense of concerns you've voiced, it's different. But taking selfies with a relative doesn't count as being overbearing. If he is dismissive of your needs, though, that is a problem.
posted by mermaidcafe at 8:51 PM on September 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
The OP isn't a roommate, and these folks are all in their 30's. Plus, the OP and her BF are newly living together and supposed to be building their relationship and improving the intimacy between them. Instead, the BF is building intimacy with someone he already spent his entire childhood with, as he seems to spend more quality time with his sister each week than he does with the woman he shares a bed with.
26.2 is correct pointing out that the BF has chosen who he wants to spend time with. Frankly, between the constant invitations, nosiness if they decline to see the sister, and her tantrums and guilt trips if they don't get together... IDK. That's a lot to process.
Most awful, the BF choses to lie to his sister about what he is doing when he spends time with his girlfriend.
First of all, this casts the OP as "the other woman" since the sister is the one whose feelings the BF is prioritizing. Yuck to that. Worse, the OP has to keep up these "white" lies her BF tells when she sees the sister socially. I'd hate spending time with a person someone was forcing me to lie to, just because that's uncomfortable and dammit -- as an adult why lie to others about how you spend your personal time??
I don't know how to make the BF act like a grown up in this situation, but that's what he needs to do here if he doesn't want to keep undermining the relationship with the person he shares a home and romantic bond with. Especially with the lying and caving to emotional blackmail, his choices are not sustainable if he expects to enjoy deep and lasting love and trust with the OP.
OP, I'm sorry you have to parse this for your BF. It's obvious to most folks on the outside what is going on. From his perspective, he's simply defaulting into old family dynamics with his sister and he's currently blind to the fact that self-actualized adults just don't do this.
Much kind listening and talking with your BF about these issues might help.
posted by jbenben at 9:09 PM on September 6, 2015 [14 favorites]
26.2 is correct pointing out that the BF has chosen who he wants to spend time with. Frankly, between the constant invitations, nosiness if they decline to see the sister, and her tantrums and guilt trips if they don't get together... IDK. That's a lot to process.
Most awful, the BF choses to lie to his sister about what he is doing when he spends time with his girlfriend.
First of all, this casts the OP as "the other woman" since the sister is the one whose feelings the BF is prioritizing. Yuck to that. Worse, the OP has to keep up these "white" lies her BF tells when she sees the sister socially. I'd hate spending time with a person someone was forcing me to lie to, just because that's uncomfortable and dammit -- as an adult why lie to others about how you spend your personal time??
I don't know how to make the BF act like a grown up in this situation, but that's what he needs to do here if he doesn't want to keep undermining the relationship with the person he shares a home and romantic bond with. Especially with the lying and caving to emotional blackmail, his choices are not sustainable if he expects to enjoy deep and lasting love and trust with the OP.
OP, I'm sorry you have to parse this for your BF. It's obvious to most folks on the outside what is going on. From his perspective, he's simply defaulting into old family dynamics with his sister and he's currently blind to the fact that self-actualized adults just don't do this.
Much kind listening and talking with your BF about these issues might help.
posted by jbenben at 9:09 PM on September 6, 2015 [14 favorites]
Sounds like you need to get down to some negotiating.
1. Regarding your participation in the frequent get-togethers: you don't have to go. You can set a boundary like "I will hang out with you and your sister 1x/week; any more than that, you're on your own to go alone."
2. Regarding your need for time with your BF: "I feel like a minimum expectation for me is to spend 3 [1, 5, 4, 6, whatever] evenings with you a week, without other company. What seems reasonable to you? How would you like to go about scheduling those? What are we going to say to others who ask for our time, so we can be completely sure we will honor those as our time?"
That takes care of the time issues. It sounds like you're also concerned about intimacy issues - you feel like they are really intimate, maybe too intimate, but you don't feel like you're intimate enough with your BF. That might be a topic to talk about on your 3 [1, 5, 4, 6] nights that you're spending together as a couple.
posted by Miko at 9:25 PM on September 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
1. Regarding your participation in the frequent get-togethers: you don't have to go. You can set a boundary like "I will hang out with you and your sister 1x/week; any more than that, you're on your own to go alone."
2. Regarding your need for time with your BF: "I feel like a minimum expectation for me is to spend 3 [1, 5, 4, 6, whatever] evenings with you a week, without other company. What seems reasonable to you? How would you like to go about scheduling those? What are we going to say to others who ask for our time, so we can be completely sure we will honor those as our time?"
That takes care of the time issues. It sounds like you're also concerned about intimacy issues - you feel like they are really intimate, maybe too intimate, but you don't feel like you're intimate enough with your BF. That might be a topic to talk about on your 3 [1, 5, 4, 6] nights that you're spending together as a couple.
posted by Miko at 9:25 PM on September 6, 2015 [5 favorites]
I probably wouldn't want to hang out with her either, but then, she's not my sister (or in-law). (I also doubt I'd choose to spend time with my brothers if we weren't related, but we wound up being close anyway.) Family's family, for some. Sibs especially, when parents go. Whatever she's like, they just lost their dad, she's off in a short time, they're obviously close - I think you have to just deal with it. Either find a way into whatever conversation's going on, or don't go.
its been a rough road for the past few years because of his excessive need for space and distance, and his need to socialize with friends when are together.
after 3 years its has put an unacceptable strain on my relationship which needed healing and has only been further damaged.
Agree with mermaidcafe - it sounds like you feel excluded from your boyfriend's life altogether, and a lot else is going on. (He's allowed to have friends, hobbies, and family, though. 2nd treehorn+bunny - what do you do with your own time? Fill it with more stuff, for sure.)
His sister's a red herring. A large, very annoying red herring, by the sounds of it, but not the main problem.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:06 PM on September 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
its been a rough road for the past few years because of his excessive need for space and distance, and his need to socialize with friends when are together.
after 3 years its has put an unacceptable strain on my relationship which needed healing and has only been further damaged.
Agree with mermaidcafe - it sounds like you feel excluded from your boyfriend's life altogether, and a lot else is going on. (He's allowed to have friends, hobbies, and family, though. 2nd treehorn+bunny - what do you do with your own time? Fill it with more stuff, for sure.)
His sister's a red herring. A large, very annoying red herring, by the sounds of it, but not the main problem.
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:06 PM on September 6, 2015 [8 favorites]
So your boyfriend needs space and distance, lots of time with his friends and lots of time with his sister. The one thing he doesn't want or feel the need to fight for is time with you. Sure, his sister maybe leaving but this is an ongoing pattern and he's letting you know, even after you've expressed very clearly, that you're on the bottom of his list. Again. As the saying goes, don't make someone a priority who only makes you an option. His relationship with his sister isn't the issue, his relationship with you is. I bet that when she leaves, there will be something else (work, hobby) that needs your boyfriend's pressing attention. You really want your life together to constantly be about begging for scraps of his time and love? You deserve so much better.
posted by Jubey at 10:37 PM on September 6, 2015 [28 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 10:37 PM on September 6, 2015 [28 favorites]
I would stop making this about the time you spend with your sister, and more about the time you spend together. Let him know that you'd like to hang out with his sister once a week (if, in fact, that schedule works for you). Then, every week, decide together when the two of you will spend alone time together. Maybe Monday, Wednesday, Friday, all day Saturday--whatever works for both of you. Spend a meal with his sister (if you want). Make your own plans for the rest of the week. Let him make plans with his sister when he wants and don't make a big deal about it.
Don't make it about his sister. Make it about your time together and let him plan how to spend his free time.
posted by studioaudience at 10:54 PM on September 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
Don't make it about his sister. Make it about your time together and let him plan how to spend his free time.
posted by studioaudience at 10:54 PM on September 6, 2015 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Not really, my other question in fact draws on a similar issue of not respecting my relationship. Yes I had other issues with the sister that make her company unsavory to me. To me they draw on similar themes of insensitivity. She's not the "other" woman in our lives, because there cant legitimately be a other person in any monogamous relationship. It would have to be a secret entity, I don't know anyone who would continue with a partner who spent 2nights out a week with another romantic interest. So she's not the other woman. What I meant is there is no room in a couples relationship for anyone else needing the kind of time, attention and emotional maintenance that she demands of my bf. I dont deny that he's happy to fulfill her needs, often undermining our relationship in the process. But he also doesn't initiate most of their meetings, it is she who badgers us, and that annoys me.
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 12:14 AM on September 7, 2015
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 12:14 AM on September 7, 2015
There are so many references to your being from a different culture ("home country", "minority", "overseas") that it seems to imply that there is norm in the United States for siblings relationship to which you would like your boyfriend to conform, and for which you're asking the help of Internet strangers.
These references are not relevant to your problem.
It's perfectly fine to tell your sister-in-law that she's using up a lot of your valuable time and you would like to see less of her in your house. As for your boyfriend, look him in the eyes and tell him to grow up or move out.
posted by Kwadeng at 12:21 AM on September 7, 2015
These references are not relevant to your problem.
It's perfectly fine to tell your sister-in-law that she's using up a lot of your valuable time and you would like to see less of her in your house. As for your boyfriend, look him in the eyes and tell him to grow up or move out.
posted by Kwadeng at 12:21 AM on September 7, 2015
I have not had or seen others have a lot of success asking for a significant other to cut back on family time or obligations for the sake of a romantic relationship. The family was there before you were and will be there, most likely, after you go.
As to the specifics here - three years isn't a long time to mourn the loss of a parent, for your boyfriend or his sister. He lies to her because he doesn't actually agree with you that she's being unreasonable. I don't think you can convince him, especially since she's away from her new husband. You might do better, as studioaudience suggests, to organize the calendar so that they get some time together alone, you get some dedicated time (call it date night), and you share some activities that don't make conversation central (since that seems to be the thing that bothers you most.)
posted by gingerest at 3:08 AM on September 7, 2015
As to the specifics here - three years isn't a long time to mourn the loss of a parent, for your boyfriend or his sister. He lies to her because he doesn't actually agree with you that she's being unreasonable. I don't think you can convince him, especially since she's away from her new husband. You might do better, as studioaudience suggests, to organize the calendar so that they get some time together alone, you get some dedicated time (call it date night), and you share some activities that don't make conversation central (since that seems to be the thing that bothers you most.)
posted by gingerest at 3:08 AM on September 7, 2015
This isn't about his sister and it's time you broke up with this guy. You've got a lot of misplaced anger towards her, but this isn't about her, it's about him.
Your boyfriend has a long-standing history of doing whatever the f*ck he wants while you try to make sense of it. While you guys were together, he slept with his ex and he broke up with you.
Now you're together and he keeps hanging out with his sister, something you don't want to do.
Do you see what's going on here? Your boyfriend is continuing to engage in a behavior that you're not onboard with. It's not that he refuses to set boundaries; it's that he's making it very clear to you his needs come first.
The point is that your boyfriend is showing you exactly who he is. He is doing what he wants to do, regardless of your feelings about the issue. You have indicated you'd like this thing to be tapered down or whatever, and he's not doing it.
This isn't about his sister, and when she moves, it's going to be something else with this guy. I think you need to stop blaming his sister (who may be an absolute troll of a person, but again, that's not the issue) and recognize that your boyfriend is going to do whatever he wants without regard to your feelings.
posted by kinetic at 4:58 AM on September 7, 2015 [51 favorites]
Your boyfriend has a long-standing history of doing whatever the f*ck he wants while you try to make sense of it. While you guys were together, he slept with his ex and he broke up with you.
Now you're together and he keeps hanging out with his sister, something you don't want to do.
Do you see what's going on here? Your boyfriend is continuing to engage in a behavior that you're not onboard with. It's not that he refuses to set boundaries; it's that he's making it very clear to you his needs come first.
The point is that your boyfriend is showing you exactly who he is. He is doing what he wants to do, regardless of your feelings about the issue. You have indicated you'd like this thing to be tapered down or whatever, and he's not doing it.
This isn't about his sister, and when she moves, it's going to be something else with this guy. I think you need to stop blaming his sister (who may be an absolute troll of a person, but again, that's not the issue) and recognize that your boyfriend is going to do whatever he wants without regard to your feelings.
posted by kinetic at 4:58 AM on September 7, 2015 [51 favorites]
kinetic has it.
Break up with your boyfriend. It sounds like this relationship isn't working and it's time to move on.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:27 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Break up with your boyfriend. It sounds like this relationship isn't working and it's time to move on.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 5:27 AM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have had the issue of overbearing in-laws and a husband that didn't have boundaries and did lie. It turned out that he also lied to me. About really important things. And when our marriage was in trouble, he turned to the overbearing in-laws, and they convinced him that he was perfect and all of his problems were because of me. He then became violent and I left. I am now happily divorced with no overbearing in-laws, no partner with boundary issues, and no more lies. It's kind of fabulous.
Whatever you do, don't get pregnant by him. Maybe he isn't a creep like my ex is but if you get pregnant, your sister in law will try to take over and he will let her. No babies until he learns boundaries and develops the courage of honesty.
posted by myselfasme at 7:37 AM on September 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
Whatever you do, don't get pregnant by him. Maybe he isn't a creep like my ex is but if you get pregnant, your sister in law will try to take over and he will let her. No babies until he learns boundaries and develops the courage of honesty.
posted by myselfasme at 7:37 AM on September 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
I was going to guess that there is trauma in these siblings' past-- beyond the death of their father and whatever financial reversals you allude to-- that's making the sister's behavior seem more reasonable in the eyes of your boyfriend. People who are that drama filled usually point to some kind of trauma or bump in their road in the past to justify their demanding behavior, but maybe your brother has a real reason to be so indulgent with his sister. You have to walk a fine line with that sort of thing because something tells me someone like his sister is not going to stop with her demands and it is vexing that they always seem to have a trump card to pull out whenever your needs come up.
But kinetic's post alerted me to your history with this guy and that does change things. He doesn't seem to make you that much of a priority in other ways than just the in-law aggro. If it were just the in-laws, you could reason that people revert to past, less mature selves when they are with their families. But is he reverting, or is he just that immature? If it's the latter, you may be wasting your time with him.
posted by BibiRose at 8:05 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
But kinetic's post alerted me to your history with this guy and that does change things. He doesn't seem to make you that much of a priority in other ways than just the in-law aggro. If it were just the in-laws, you could reason that people revert to past, less mature selves when they are with their families. But is he reverting, or is he just that immature? If it's the latter, you may be wasting your time with him.
posted by BibiRose at 8:05 AM on September 7, 2015 [1 favorite]
What I meant is there is no room in a couples relationship for anyone else needing the kind of time, attention and emotional maintenance that she demands of my bf.
as a note - what you really mean here is that for you there's not room for anyone else needing all of that. this is a very important distinction. for some people, your boyfriend for example, there is room. when you say unequivocally that this is the way relationships are, it becomes something you're doing right and he's doing wrong and he can fix it by just agreeing with you. however, when you see it for what it really is, different values that each have merit, you can decide if this is a deal breaker.
posted by nadawi at 8:35 AM on September 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
as a note - what you really mean here is that for you there's not room for anyone else needing all of that. this is a very important distinction. for some people, your boyfriend for example, there is room. when you say unequivocally that this is the way relationships are, it becomes something you're doing right and he's doing wrong and he can fix it by just agreeing with you. however, when you see it for what it really is, different values that each have merit, you can decide if this is a deal breaker.
posted by nadawi at 8:35 AM on September 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Look, his sister doesn't like or respect you. She helped her brother cheat on you with her friend! She's not going to suddenly start being considerate of you, certainly not before your boyfriend himself does.
You are in a somewhat toxic situation in which she and your boyfriend are in vey intentional, very obvious cahoots to ignore you and do whatever they want. It sounds like for your boyfriend, family always has come first- and always will- and this is just a continuation of that, one that maybe will end when she moves away but it not likely to subside long-term unless your position in the hierarchy is given a major overhaul, either by marriage (and that may not even be enough) or your boyfriend himself making it very clear to his family that you matter to him seriously and long term. He has not.
Look I'm just going to be brutally honest. This guy is not being good to you. He's cheated multiple times and been ambivalent about you for 10 years. His family doesn't respect you. Why would they after you've put up with all that shit for so long?? I know you feel like you've been with him so long that you have to stay. But you really don't! You could leave tomorrow and your next relationship could develop and be stable in a fraction of the time it took this one to.
posted by quincunx at 10:10 AM on September 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
You are in a somewhat toxic situation in which she and your boyfriend are in vey intentional, very obvious cahoots to ignore you and do whatever they want. It sounds like for your boyfriend, family always has come first- and always will- and this is just a continuation of that, one that maybe will end when she moves away but it not likely to subside long-term unless your position in the hierarchy is given a major overhaul, either by marriage (and that may not even be enough) or your boyfriend himself making it very clear to his family that you matter to him seriously and long term. He has not.
Look I'm just going to be brutally honest. This guy is not being good to you. He's cheated multiple times and been ambivalent about you for 10 years. His family doesn't respect you. Why would they after you've put up with all that shit for so long?? I know you feel like you've been with him so long that you have to stay. But you really don't! You could leave tomorrow and your next relationship could develop and be stable in a fraction of the time it took this one to.
posted by quincunx at 10:10 AM on September 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Just to clarify, she didn't help him cheat on me. He hasn't repeated it after that time and has been very regretful. I choose to get over those events, we were long distance for a long time and my interests waivered too. I choose not to be treated like a doormat otherwise which I why I'm putting up resistance against this dynamic with the sister. There is something about how full of herself she is and how everyone is just an audience around her that pisses me off. I feel i would welcome her more in my life if she wasn't like that. My boyfriend is being dysfunctional Im very aware of that. But for instance my family, unlike his, doesn't put me in a position where I have to explicitly draw boundaries. So I feel there is an extra problem.
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 10:30 AM on September 7, 2015
posted by whatdoyouthink? at 10:30 AM on September 7, 2015
your boyfriend has been clear that everyone comes before you. as long as you keep focusing on the other person, your boyfriend will keep doing this. your problem isn't with his sister, it's with your boyfriend. he has chosen to engage in this dynamic. you have to decide if that's ok with you. if it's not, you can try to make him change, but you've been unsuccessful at that thus far. if this never changes, will you be happy in this relationship? that's all you can really control - what you're willing to put up with or what you're willing to leave over.
posted by nadawi at 10:41 AM on September 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 10:41 AM on September 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
I was going to suggest taking up knitting to help you tolerate sucking it up for those few months left to go, when they're talking and leaving you out of the conversation. My husband's family can go on for hours reminiscing about people, places and events I have zero knowledge of, and have zero interest to me. But knitting lets me zone out and ignore them while sitting there if I want to. That or some other handicraft hobby like embroidery, crocheting, beading...
In the interim, any change is going to have to come from your boyfriend. Sometimes asking for small changes will help nudge things in the right direction, such as asking for regular date nights with him. Don't bring this up as an attack on their relationship because you won't get anywhere that way. Bring it up as feeling distant from him and wanting to get more quality time.
posted by lizbunny at 10:46 AM on September 7, 2015
In the interim, any change is going to have to come from your boyfriend. Sometimes asking for small changes will help nudge things in the right direction, such as asking for regular date nights with him. Don't bring this up as an attack on their relationship because you won't get anywhere that way. Bring it up as feeling distant from him and wanting to get more quality time.
posted by lizbunny at 10:46 AM on September 7, 2015
I think kinetic pretty much has it. I suggested before that your boyfriend may be passively trying to end your relationship, but I think he's just sticking around and enjoying the benefits of having you around without having to commit too fully.
His wanting to spend time with his sister would be normal, admirable even if he were coming from a place of emotional availability, and the suggestions you're getting to work around the problem by finding a hobby, or to work out a schedule and articulate your needs would be great for a couple that had an otherwise sound foundation. But it sounds like this is a relationship that doesn't have much direction and is mostly on your boyfriend's terms.
I suggest you check out Baggage Reclaim, and see how much of what she writes resonates with you.
posted by alphanerd at 11:21 AM on September 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
His wanting to spend time with his sister would be normal, admirable even if he were coming from a place of emotional availability, and the suggestions you're getting to work around the problem by finding a hobby, or to work out a schedule and articulate your needs would be great for a couple that had an otherwise sound foundation. But it sounds like this is a relationship that doesn't have much direction and is mostly on your boyfriend's terms.
I suggest you check out Baggage Reclaim, and see how much of what she writes resonates with you.
posted by alphanerd at 11:21 AM on September 7, 2015 [5 favorites]
From pretentious illiterate's answer in one of your previous questions about this boyfriend:
You're blaming the sister...where you should be blaming your boyfriend. I understand all those intense hurt and angry feelings but they are completely misplaced.
Your boyfriend really doesn't seem invested in maintaining a relationship with you. In all your questions, you are doing all the heavy lifting and it's your needs that are consistently not being met.
From my answer in that thread:
Your boyfriend seems to be acting like a jerk to you in hopes that you'll just break it off with him and then he doesn't have to look like the asshole who dumped you after you hung in there for 10 years....I am sorry--I know it must feel like you've invested so much time in this relationship, but it's like supporting a bad investment at this point--you're throwing good money (time) after bad.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:43 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
You're blaming the sister...where you should be blaming your boyfriend. I understand all those intense hurt and angry feelings but they are completely misplaced.
Your boyfriend really doesn't seem invested in maintaining a relationship with you. In all your questions, you are doing all the heavy lifting and it's your needs that are consistently not being met.
From my answer in that thread:
Your boyfriend seems to be acting like a jerk to you in hopes that you'll just break it off with him and then he doesn't have to look like the asshole who dumped you after you hung in there for 10 years....I am sorry--I know it must feel like you've invested so much time in this relationship, but it's like supporting a bad investment at this point--you're throwing good money (time) after bad.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:43 AM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's ok to be done with his nonsense. It's mentally healthy to have had enough of this. It's okay to say to him and to anyone else who wants to put their 2 cents in that you're not getting what you need. It's okay to have spent years with someone and tried hard but you don't want to do it anymore. It's ok. It really is. You have to matter, too. Your time and your heart have to matter to you. Screw everyone else.
The sister is leaving? Terrific. She annoys you, end of story. Your boyfriend remains. He's still him. If he is dense and insensitive 25% of the time but slam dunks the ball the other 75% of the time, you can work this out. If he disappoints you daily, that won't go away.
I'll bet you everything I own (and everything I'll ever own in the future) that I could walk down to the bus stop RIGHT NOW and find an interesting, kind and attractive guy who wouldn't dream of cheating on you, making you feel like a third wheel or lying about you to his family.
It's never too late to draw your line in the sand. I used to tolerate a lot of stupid bullshit but now I eat these guys for breakfast. You asked, "How have you guys dealt with similar situations?" I grew a spine and remembered who I was.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 12:43 PM on September 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
The sister is leaving? Terrific. She annoys you, end of story. Your boyfriend remains. He's still him. If he is dense and insensitive 25% of the time but slam dunks the ball the other 75% of the time, you can work this out. If he disappoints you daily, that won't go away.
I'll bet you everything I own (and everything I'll ever own in the future) that I could walk down to the bus stop RIGHT NOW and find an interesting, kind and attractive guy who wouldn't dream of cheating on you, making you feel like a third wheel or lying about you to his family.
It's never too late to draw your line in the sand. I used to tolerate a lot of stupid bullshit but now I eat these guys for breakfast. You asked, "How have you guys dealt with similar situations?" I grew a spine and remembered who I was.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 12:43 PM on September 7, 2015 [6 favorites]
I feel like a captive audience, and a rather dispensable one too, she and her brother would be happy to hang out alone.
Uh, so let them do that then.
Use the extra time to do something that makes you feel more self-sufficient.
Clinginess seems to be a problem for you, one way or another, in your present and past questions, and in other people's answers to them. Maybe you're clinging to a boyfriend you should drop! Or: maybe you act clingy by making other people meet emotional needs that aren't really their responsibility! Or maybe both.
Develop some practices that can give you a sense of emotional autonomy. This might mean meditation, with a particular focus on exploring emotions. Or it might mean something that makes you feel really badass, or gives you another source of emotional satisfaction, like rock-climbing or landscape painting. At the very least, do something that gives you a broader set of people to depend on.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:56 PM on September 7, 2015
Uh, so let them do that then.
Use the extra time to do something that makes you feel more self-sufficient.
Clinginess seems to be a problem for you, one way or another, in your present and past questions, and in other people's answers to them. Maybe you're clinging to a boyfriend you should drop! Or: maybe you act clingy by making other people meet emotional needs that aren't really their responsibility! Or maybe both.
Develop some practices that can give you a sense of emotional autonomy. This might mean meditation, with a particular focus on exploring emotions. Or it might mean something that makes you feel really badass, or gives you another source of emotional satisfaction, like rock-climbing or landscape painting. At the very least, do something that gives you a broader set of people to depend on.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:56 PM on September 7, 2015
Amen to everything kinetic said. You've been in big time denial for awhile now that your boyfriend is the problem, and I agree with jbenben's answer from Your Previous Ask exactly 3 months ago:
"...your guy has cheated more than you know, because the kind of drama you describe goes hand in hand with lots of cheating. This would be another reason why the sister seems uninterested in your feelings. Distancing herself from you is a way for her not to feel complicit in her brother's dishonesty towards you.
Fuck these people. Dump all of them. Get out, get away. Run.
Then, therapy."
posted by hush at 1:56 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
"...your guy has cheated more than you know, because the kind of drama you describe goes hand in hand with lots of cheating. This would be another reason why the sister seems uninterested in your feelings. Distancing herself from you is a way for her not to feel complicit in her brother's dishonesty towards you.
Fuck these people. Dump all of them. Get out, get away. Run.
Then, therapy."
posted by hush at 1:56 PM on September 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
The question is how long do you want to keep feeling like shit for? Because he's not going to change. I predict another question in a slightly different vein in three, six months time. You've clearly proven you'll put up with whatever he and his family dish up so he has no impetus to change, so you know, this is going to be your life. Lying, cheating scumbag who puts everyone, anyone, before you. I mean, you might break up with him but chances are what will happen is he'll find someone he likes better eventually (because we know he's looking) and leave you. You've put your entire destiny in his control and he's not someone who gives a damn about you so I don't see it ending well unless you find some courage and take your life back.
posted by Jubey at 4:42 PM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 4:42 PM on September 7, 2015 [3 favorites]
My boyfriend is being dysfunctional
He's really not though. If I lived nearer to my sister, I'd see her several times a week. My fiancé's sisters live in the same town and they see each other almost daily to share childcare and just to hang out. It's not uncommon to be close to your sisters - even when you are married or partnered - and I'm not sure why you think it is.
The issue is your boyfriend. You want more time with him and he responds by blatantly going out and spending his time with others, after you told him you didn't like it. You should probably break up with him.
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:36 PM on September 7, 2015
He's really not though. If I lived nearer to my sister, I'd see her several times a week. My fiancé's sisters live in the same town and they see each other almost daily to share childcare and just to hang out. It's not uncommon to be close to your sisters - even when you are married or partnered - and I'm not sure why you think it is.
The issue is your boyfriend. You want more time with him and he responds by blatantly going out and spending his time with others, after you told him you didn't like it. You should probably break up with him.
posted by chainsofreedom at 7:36 PM on September 7, 2015
A couple suggestions.
First, ask yourself what you really want. Do you really want to spend all that time with your boyfriend or is it just that you don't want him to spend time with her?
Can you go on bike rides alone? Can you enlist another friend for bike rides?
Are you really attached to brunch with your boyfriend or just attached to brunch? Could you go with a girlfriend?
The fact that she's constantly texting him means, to me, that they need to set up plans in advance; possibly at the beginning of the week. Then, everyone would know what the schedule is/was and could plan accordingly.
I don't think you need to hang out with him and his sister anymore; anytime they go out together, that's YOUR time to do what YOU want.
There was a big shift when my husband and I got married. When we were dating, I felt more insecure about possible threats to our relationship. Now that we're married, I'm more relaxed and think, "Do what you want! I'm still your wife and have a certificate and a ring to prove it!"
I live in close proximity with my in-laws and my husband is always spending time with them. Instead of getting upset about his mother ironing his shirts, I think, "I'm glad I'm not ironing his shirts!"
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 3:28 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
First, ask yourself what you really want. Do you really want to spend all that time with your boyfriend or is it just that you don't want him to spend time with her?
Can you go on bike rides alone? Can you enlist another friend for bike rides?
Are you really attached to brunch with your boyfriend or just attached to brunch? Could you go with a girlfriend?
The fact that she's constantly texting him means, to me, that they need to set up plans in advance; possibly at the beginning of the week. Then, everyone would know what the schedule is/was and could plan accordingly.
I don't think you need to hang out with him and his sister anymore; anytime they go out together, that's YOUR time to do what YOU want.
There was a big shift when my husband and I got married. When we were dating, I felt more insecure about possible threats to our relationship. Now that we're married, I'm more relaxed and think, "Do what you want! I'm still your wife and have a certificate and a ring to prove it!"
I live in close proximity with my in-laws and my husband is always spending time with them. Instead of getting upset about his mother ironing his shirts, I think, "I'm glad I'm not ironing his shirts!"
posted by Piedmont_Americana at 3:28 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
My specific anecdota on dealing with bullshit - any bullshit - that doesn't make me happy is that I dumped that fool.
posted by sm1tten at 5:46 PM on September 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sm1tten at 5:46 PM on September 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
My personal take on this as someone who was in the social life got totally co-opted by recently married sister is that the sister is realising that she's not getting what she wants from the marriage and is avoiding the issue by using her brother as her emotional support. I'd definitely think about strategies to get her to open up to you about what she needs from him, and discuss that with your boyfriend and support him in supporting her.
It's very likely she doesn't know how to ask for help. I don't, on reflection, know how to help. I think one thing that might be worth doing is insisting that you won't accept invitations from her until she accepts them from you. On a strict basis of one event she plans, one event you plan.
You'll probably need to coax your boyfriend into admitting that he is accepting her invitations out of obligation, if that is what's happening. But it'll be much easier for him when he can talk about the issue and he'll be able to get some control over the issues.
Of course, I could be off base, but it's something worth considering.
posted by ambrosen at 4:26 AM on September 22, 2015
It's very likely she doesn't know how to ask for help. I don't, on reflection, know how to help. I think one thing that might be worth doing is insisting that you won't accept invitations from her until she accepts them from you. On a strict basis of one event she plans, one event you plan.
You'll probably need to coax your boyfriend into admitting that he is accepting her invitations out of obligation, if that is what's happening. But it'll be much easier for him when he can talk about the issue and he'll be able to get some control over the issues.
Of course, I could be off base, but it's something worth considering.
posted by ambrosen at 4:26 AM on September 22, 2015
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posted by HuronBob at 7:51 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]