Visions of strangers attacking her son.

March 29, 2015 10:10 PM

At least once a week, when they are in public, my partner finds herself vividly anticipating that the person walking towards her will lunge at and stab her son.

She describes these experiences as being a bit like those scenes in the Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes films, except very upsetting. She experiences a surge of adrenaline, significant panic, and mentally finds herself preparing to fight to defend him. It is very distressing, both at the time, and later on reflection, in part because it makes her question her own rationality.

My partner started experiencing this fairly soon after she started spending longer periods of time in public with her son, around 6-8 weeks of age; he is currently around 5 months old. The experiences seem to be becoming more frequent. She hasn't been able to spot any patterns about who the fear is associated with, even on the basis of gender.

My partner has received counselling for depression associated with past experiences of violence. She is taking steps to resume counselling after a break around childbirth. The break was supported by her counsellor.

We would be grateful for any information about dealing with this specific sort of protective response, either from professional and research sources or from personal experience.

posted by anonymous to Grab Bag (25 answers total)

A friend of mine had similar experiences with their child. It turned out that they had OCD, and constant intrusive thoughts about their child being harmed was one of the first manifestations of it.
posted by Jairus at 10:15 PM on March 29, 2015 [11 favorites]

Anecdotal: After our son was born my wife a similar feeling that a car would hit our son while we were on any sidewalk. I think it's a somewhat normal behaviour tied to the hormonal changes post birth. It goes away with time.
posted by furtive at 10:19 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

I knew a lot of moms who experienced this after childbirth. (It is possible they all had health probems - I am not saying it should be ignored.) One of the moms was diagnosed with OCD, with these being the intrusive thoughts. Another professional said she had psychosis because she thought she saw bugs running across the floor. It later turned out that she had trauma and this was just the way the trauma was coming in -- with EMDR and CBT, this stuff went away and her life improved dramatically.

If you have a safe medical doctor, it may be worth a referral to Reproductive Psychiatry, just to screen for psychosis or anything of the like. They can still work in conjunction with a counsellor and it doesn't have to mean she goes on meds, if she's worried about that.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:23 PM on March 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

I meant to add that my friends and I used to think that cars were going to suddenly leave the road and drive on to the sidewalk and that we would have to protect our babies. A friend of mine is a psychiatrist and she said she thinks this is some sort of evolutionary trait that protects babies and also that it is just a huge shift to have this little person to protect. I used to look at people (around that time) and be surprised that they weren't trying to attack one another more often.

I did actually have to protect my baby quite a few times, as weird strangers would try to pick up baby, pinch baby's cheeks, grab baby out of high chair when I was picking up fork from the floor, etc, so I'm not sure it is BAD to have plans for these things.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 10:26 PM on March 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

She might find this helpful, or at least informative:

Radiolab's "Dark Thoughts" episode.
posted by bluecore at 10:44 PM on March 29, 2015 [5 favorites]

In case the above answers don't make it clear, the term you want to google is intrusive thoughts, and they are a fairly common symptom of anxiety. I get them sometimes, particularly when I'm under a lot of stress. They are very upsetting, but knowing what they are ("Oh, it's those instrusive thoughts again,") helps me a bit.

Intrusive thoughts--Psychology Today
posted by Violet Hour at 11:42 PM on March 29, 2015 [11 favorites]

My friend had the same intrusive panicky thoughts about eagles swooping in and carrying off her baby for his first six months or so, even though she is aware that she lives on an urban environment where no one has seen an eagle on decades. Seconding that this is pretty normal, although that probably doesn't make it less upsetting.
posted by lollusc at 12:31 AM on March 30, 2015

I found this AskMoxie discussion on 'fear fantasies' helpful when I was going through the same thing. It reassured me that I wasn't the only person dealing with them, and that they were within the bounds of normal.

That said, though, just because it happens to a lot of other people doesn't mean that your partner shouldn't talk to someone (doctor? her counsellor?) about it happening to her. I didn't want to tell anyone at all, but what ultimately helped a lot to stop these thoughts being so overwhelming was talking to a counsellor about it.
posted by Catseye at 1:20 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

From an anonymous commenter:

Others posting here are right that these thoughts are often referred to as "invasive thoughts" or "intrusive thoughts" and are frequent in the peripartum period. While these thoughts may be common, they can be quite distressing and don't have to be borne alone as something that may just pass, so "suck it up".

I had a lot of these thoughts, of varying scenarios, and I found them really upsetting - like your partner, they made me question my mental state. It was very difficult to talk to anyone about these thoughts because I thought they made me a bad mother (they did not) or that I was going crazy (I was not).

I was immensely helped, however, by a postpartum mental health group in my area. Please see postpartum.net to find appropriate support where you are, and to read this short post and its associated links.

Many routes to help are available and I encourage your partner to empower herself with knowledge and to engineer her own route through this.

posted by taz at 1:45 AM on March 30, 2015 [13 favorites]

Intrusive thoughts can be a symptom of post-partum depression, she should definitely mention this to her OB.

They might resolve on their own but it sounds like they are greatly interfering with her life right now. Encourage her to get checked out ASAP.
posted by lydhre at 3:08 AM on March 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Yep, sounds like postpartum OCD. (I have regular OCD.) It's not uncommon, and I think OCD in general goes underdiagnosed and undertreated because the pop-culture understanding of it is way off the mark, and because the intrusive thoughts are often so terrifying that you're ashamed to have them in your head, much less tell someone else. But it is treatable. She is not crazy or bad for having thoughts like this, and a competent professional will understand.
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:03 AM on March 30, 2015

I don't know your senses of humor, but Maria Bamford is a phenomenal comedienne who has performed a lot about her own experiences with OCD and intrusive thoughts.

If it feels like you're both in the right headspace for it, maybe give her a listen. Sometimes laughter, like music, can soothe the savage breast.
posted by harperpitt at 4:57 AM on March 30, 2015

She needs a new therapist who specializes in post partum care. Taking a break around childbirth was exactly the wrong thing to do. Post partum ocd and anxiety are real and especially triggered in someone with pre existing depression. Also, were these previous episodes of violence by her, or towards her? If she was the violent one, then this is worrying. I can't tell if it is your child or not, but the mother needs people in her life to step up helping out with the baby and to support her getting well.
posted by yarly at 5:17 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

The support group and post-partum therapy suggestions are right on. Here are some of my general tips about how I cope with my intrusive thoughts, copy-pasted from a previous thread:

-Cutting down on caffeine; I have a neurological disorder (Tourette Syndrome) that is aggravated by stimulants, so ymmv

-Thinking of the intrusive thoughts in a more positive, mundane way; instead of OH GOD WHY IS THERE A PART OF MY BRAIN THAT WANTS ME TO DIEEEEEE WOE IS MEEEEE I would phrase it more like "ok, some symptoms of my mental illness are cropping up again, it's no different than having a cough or a sore throat if you have a cold"*

-I've started imagining that I have a little sloth buddy who gives me pep talks. Little sloth buddy says "Just sloooooooooooooowwwww doooooooowwwwwn and take deep breaths, it is super easy for me because I am a very lazy sloth but you can learn it too." Little sloth buddy tells me I'm really interesting and smart and funny and worthwhile and he's sorry I'm having such a rough time right now but it always gets better, doesn't it? And I get distracted from my awful spiral of anxiety and horror by the fact I'm picturing an adorable sloth sitting on my hip with his long arms wrapped around me, which is ridiculous and somehow comforting at the same time.

*this is not to minimize how truly painful her symptoms are, but for me the self-pity, panic, and internalized stigma around mental illness were definitely not helping matters
posted by Juliet Banana at 7:23 AM on March 30, 2015 [9 favorites]

(Caveats: I don't have a child to protect, and have not sought counselling for any anxiety issues as an adult, so I can speak only from a place of personal experience with something somewhat similar.)

For a long time, I had similar intrusive thoughts, though I would never have thought to label them that, because they were more like fully-fleshed, unbidden fantasies of horrible events happening to me or loved ones. Grisly murders, etc.

This was frustrating and unnerving at best, and at worst it was truly upsetting.

When I got the idea that these "flashes" might be an effect of overall anxiety, I took some small steps to deal with that (basic breathing and gratitude exercises, etc.), and things immediately got better.

I also developed a technique that, while silly, worked wonders. I decided that every time I imagined, say, being in a horrific car accident, I would then force myself to also imagine something equally improbable, but awesome. Like a pegasus flying down from a cloud to deliver pie. The stupider the better. This was something I did out of desperation to distract myself from those awful images, and it actually really worked. Not only did it remind me that thoughts are just thoughts, but I was able to lift my mood a little, in terrible moments, which was a powerfully optimistic feeling. Just the reminder that I even COULD feel levity instead of sick dread was a life-changer.

I haven't had intrusive thoughts in years (save for here or there in supremely stressful weeks). The mind can accomplish great things and change itself for the better. Best of luck to your partner.
posted by jessicapierce at 8:06 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]

I don't want to discount or minimize this at all, and I know this is anecdotal, but I believe it's normal.

I had a baby about four months ago, and to this day I still have to remind myself each morning that I am not going to accidentally throw my daughter down the stairs (and likely not drop her either). My wife says she had the same sort of thing after she gave birth to our oldest.

I'd recommend the "Secret History of Thoughts" episode of Invisibilia. It's all about intrusive thoughts and about whether our thoughts define us. I lean towards the "no they don't" end of things, so I can pretty easily dismiss my intrusive thoughts about the baby. I mostly go "huh, that's a bit disturbing that my brain is doing that," and I don't really dwell on it.

The problem comes in if we take those thoughts seriously or if we obsess about the thoughts themselves, which can make them worse, which sounds like what's happened to your wife. I hope she can get help with this from her therapist.
posted by hought20 at 8:11 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, this sounds like she maybe had a slight predisposition to intrusive thoughts, and having a child to protect brought them to the forefront. This is so common it's got its own subheading on Wikipedia. "A study of 85 new parents found that 89% experienced intrusive images, for example, of the baby suffocating, having an accident, being harmed, or being kidnapped."

It really really does not mean she's crazy! There's a theory that intrusive thoughts are actually rooted in tools to help people survive by imagining dangerous scenarios that might happen and allowing us to plan for them ahead of time. Your partner's brain has just taken it a bit too far.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:12 AM on March 30, 2015

I don't have a baby but when my sisters had babies I had sympathy anxiety about something terrible happening to them. I think hormones and the obvious vulnerability of the baby (and or huge responsibility for it) are the reasons, and maybe it's a natural/evolutionary thing. I come down by reminding myself that most people take care of their babies just fine, and my sisters are good moms. Maybe reminding yourself of all the other moms out there will help.
posted by stoneandstar at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2015

Intrusive thoughts are REALLY common in post-partum depression, and definitely she should be talking to a professional, if only to hear how COMMON these thoughts are and how they typically fade away over time. Many women seek ongoing therapy or medication; others just check in with their doctor and can cope with the thoughts as long as they know it's normal. (But it is important to be checking in with a professional on a regular basis.)

I had intrusive thoughts about my baby getting hurt while I was sleeping and couldn't defend him ... which meant I didn't sleep for AGES (prowling the house at all house for "dangers"), which helped NOTHING about having a new baby. A low-dose prescription sleep aid made all the difference in the world, along with the reassurance that the intrusive thoughts would eventually go away as my baby got older. They did. It also helped that my doctor said, "Oh, I had those with my second baby, only mine were that we were about to be in a horrific car accident, and I basically had to give up making left turns for 8 months!"

Once you know they're normal and common (and while possibly a sign you have post-partum depression, not a sign you are "going crazy"), they become less distressing right away. A lot of therapists give you a sort of script to talk to yourself with when you have these intrusive thoughts. Since mine were sleep-related it didn't really apply, but I had a friend who was terrified of dropping her baby off a bridge (she crossed a lot of bridges walking in the city) and had horrible intrusive thoughts about it, and she would say to herself, "This is an intrusive thought and while it is scary, it is also irrational. I have never dropped anything off a bridge. I have never dropped my baby. I am definitely not going to drop my baby this time -- and here's the end of the bridge. See? Nothing happened!" Basically the structure was recognizing the thought as intrusive, acknowledging her fear, and proceeding to remind herself specific ways in which the fear was irrational. It helped her a lot, and started blunting the fear after a week or two. She kept getting the intrusive thoughts for several months, but they stopped being so upsetting once she'd trained herself to automatically short-circuit the agonizing fear.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:52 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

It goes away with time.

Not necessarily. I had PPD, and intrusive thoughts (although, good child of the cold war I am, they were more around world apocalypse and I had an excellent plan for walking our entire family to Canada should that be necessary).

I still have this, to some extent, eight + years later, although it doesn't so much manifest when we're out and about as it does in quiet moments, like before sleep. It is extremely common. I deal with it through a kind of CBT - basically understanding that these scenarios (a plane crashing into our house, for example) are unlikely to happen, but its ok to let my brain make a plan in case it does.
posted by anastasiav at 9:28 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

I had intrusive thoughts about baby abduction while I was nursing. The day I stopped nursing, the thoughts stopped as well.
posted by rada at 9:30 AM on March 30, 2015

You mention a history of violence. I'm going to buck the OCD internet-diagnosis, and suggest it's much more likely that your wife may have post-traumatic stress. These feelings are probably ones she previously had, but with the birth of your son and taking him out into the unsafe public space, it has exacerbated.

You will want to look into CBT, it's very helpful. Those feelings never go away, but it lets you manage the probability.
posted by corb at 9:51 AM on March 30, 2015

I had intrusive thoughts following the birth of my first daughter (mine involved knives and are disturbing to remember even years later). For other reasons (traumatic birth and PTSD), I sought post-partum therapy and had EMDR done as part of it, and the thoughts went away - even though we didn't really address them in therapy. I really recommend that your partner seek help - especially if they are becoming MORE frequent instead of less.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:28 AM on March 30, 2015

I had problems with intrusive thoughts when my first baby was born. The thoughts were part of my post-partum depression, which started when he was six weeks old, and antidepressants took care of it. Her OB should be able to prescribe something for her. Zoloft worked for me and was safe for breastfeeding, but this was a while ago and there might be newer, better information out there now about what's appropriate.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:49 AM on March 30, 2015

I came on to say what corb said. It could be PTSD.
posted by lillian.elmtree at 11:29 PM on March 30, 2015