Can/Should We Get Past This?
September 17, 2014 8:21 AM Subscribe
We moved in together, but things are going poorly. Not sure where to go from here.
We're a lesbian couple, together over a year, in our 30s. My partner is lovely: caring, interesting, kind, beautiful, funny and has a very good heart. We have shared values and a common lifestyle. Before moving in together, we discussed what this step would mean. We both agreed that living together would be a step toward a deeper commitment. So, plans were made for her to move into my place.
It so happened, however, that the weekend of the move was pretty traumatic. Due to some unforeseen logistics, her parents made (apparently unchangeable plans) to visit while she would be moving. Although she said she wanted to introduce me to them, she'd made no arrangements to do so before their arrival. This meant that two, new, potentially scary things would be happening on the same weekend: 1) her first time moving in with a partner and 2) her first time introducing a girlfriend to her parents.
In fact, she was so preoccupied and stressed with the move (and probably the parental introductions as well) that she didn't plan anything about their visit ahead of time. She'd described one of her parents as homophobic, so I knew this was not going to be easy. About a month before their arrival, I asked her how she was going to handle it. She didn't know. I told her I needed reassurance that she would handle it -- that she would honor our relationship with her parents. I'd already invested a lot of emotional energy and time into smoothing things over with my own homophobic parents, who eventually met her and warmly welcomed her into the family home with open arms -- only after I'd thrown down the gauntlet and had a series of very uncomfortable, painful conversations with them in which I made it clear that I would not spend time with them unless they respected my relationship.
I felt hurt and resentful that I put everything on the line with my parents, but she seemed to drag her feet with hers. It's not that she hid our relationship from her family -- she didn't. She would mention me and us on the phone with her folks, have me say hello when they skyped -- all of which meant a great deal to me. But a few weeks before her parents visit, she still hadn't told them that we'd be meeting, nor did she tell any of us when that meeting would take place.
She finally informed them shortly before the visit that she'd like them to meet me. They agreed. When they arrived, those plans still hadn't been made. The parents made several dinner reservations that excluded me (I wasn't invited). My girlfriend said she thought my being excluded was insulting and said she'd address it with her parents, however, she went to those dinners and activities, leaving me alone at her place, where I'd been helping her pack up her things, paint her walls, carrying boxes. We had a pretty big fight where I told her how angry I was being left at her home alone, helping her move, while she went out with her parents. It felt like a monumental betrayal and triggered all of my abandonment issues.
During the weekend, she eventually had a talk with her parents where she said she wouldn't come to activities where I wasn't invited. She said they agreed to have lunch together before they left. When she came home and told me this, after another activity I wasn't invited to, I think she wanted me to be happy and grateful, but instead all I felt was seething anger. I was upset that she procrastinated on dealing with these things until after their arrival, putting me in the position of spending the weekend helping with the move while she went out to family activities I was not invited to.
I met the parents. We spent a day together. It went fine, I guess, given the circumstances. The next day she went to another dinner that I wasn't invited to, with some friends of her parents, leaving me among her boxes. This took place after the conversation where she told her parents she wouldn't attend events from which I was excluded. She explained to me that she felt this particular dinner was not one she could boycott.. and apparently the whole "never again" thing was for the future, not this weekend. Another big fight ensued. I understood the predicament she was in -- it would have been very bad for her and hurtful to her parents for her to not attend that dinner -- but I felt she violated her word and disrespected both me and the relationship again.
She moved in but we're still fighting about that weekend. Although my girlfriend admits she should have handled things differently, and said she would not put me in that position again, she felt hurt by my anger, upset that I didn't understand her relationship with her folks (she's not as close to them as I am to mine) and angered by my sarcasm and tone. Meanwhile, I'm still very angry over her unwillingness to plan her parents visit in a way that would have treated our relationship with respect -- and upset that she seems to not fully understand just how disrespectful and hurtful her decisions were.
So here are the things I need help evaluating/re-framing:
1. Can I (we) move on from this? The weekend raised questions for both of us about the viability of the relationship. I find myself wanting reassurance, but she can't really provide it as she's questioning the relationship, too. I can't stop thinking that I would never have treated her the way she treated me that weekend, vis a vis my family. To me, her willingness to leave me at her apartment among her boxes while she entertained her family at events from which I was explicitly excluded -- the same weekend we're moving in together -- felt like a monumental betrayal. She's apologized, but it doesn't seem like enough. I want to forgive her, but I don't know how. What could recovering from this look like? Specific, concrete examples please.
2. How do we handle living together while we're questioning the relationship? Moving in together is always a transition, even without drama. But waking up everyday knowing that we're both questioning the relationship feels pretty awful to me. As someone with an avoidant-fearful attachment style, I often fear that my partner doesn't really want to be with me. This fear feels magnified during unresolved conflict. And.. it doesn't help that she can't provide the kind of reassurance I'd like to hear. I guess I'd like to hear her say "I'm sorry. I love you. I handled this very poorly. I know why you'd think my behavior indicates that I'm not committed to you and us -- but I am. I want to be with you and I want to make this work." Instead, when I brought this up, she told me that during the weekend blowup, she felt as though she had "one foot in and one foot out" of the relationship, but that she decided to try and move past it. This was pretty devastating to me. I worry that my fears are actually based in reality -- that she isn't very committed to the relationship, and is taking a "wait and see" attitude. We're both unsure about the relationship, but I'm the one regularly asking her to talk about the issues and try to figure out how we can reconnect. This generally ends with an argument and her pulling away. This cycle sucks. How can we get unstuck.. while making it through the day-to-day routine of being under the same roof? It feels unauthentic to me to just make small talk and chit chat over dinner when the relationship feels so insecure and uncertain. But is this what real couples in LTRs do during difficult times?
3. I have a feeling that although my emotions are legitimate, I may be blowing thing out of proportion and potentially sabotaging a promising relationship. Should I trust her actions -- the fact that she did move in with me, did introduce me to the parents (despite the crappy circumstances) and is still currently expressing a desire to work things out -- as evidence of her commitment? Am I just overreacting? Is there another way of interpreting all of this that would not feel quite so upsetting?
4. How do I deal with the sadness I feel over our moving in together going so poorly? I would have liked for this experience to have brought us closer together, emotionally -- instead, it's been a mess. I keep feeling like the very unromantic rockiness of our move-in-process is some kind of referendum on the relationship -- that this uncertainty means we're doomed. Can/should I reframe this?
We're a lesbian couple, together over a year, in our 30s. My partner is lovely: caring, interesting, kind, beautiful, funny and has a very good heart. We have shared values and a common lifestyle. Before moving in together, we discussed what this step would mean. We both agreed that living together would be a step toward a deeper commitment. So, plans were made for her to move into my place.
It so happened, however, that the weekend of the move was pretty traumatic. Due to some unforeseen logistics, her parents made (apparently unchangeable plans) to visit while she would be moving. Although she said she wanted to introduce me to them, she'd made no arrangements to do so before their arrival. This meant that two, new, potentially scary things would be happening on the same weekend: 1) her first time moving in with a partner and 2) her first time introducing a girlfriend to her parents.
In fact, she was so preoccupied and stressed with the move (and probably the parental introductions as well) that she didn't plan anything about their visit ahead of time. She'd described one of her parents as homophobic, so I knew this was not going to be easy. About a month before their arrival, I asked her how she was going to handle it. She didn't know. I told her I needed reassurance that she would handle it -- that she would honor our relationship with her parents. I'd already invested a lot of emotional energy and time into smoothing things over with my own homophobic parents, who eventually met her and warmly welcomed her into the family home with open arms -- only after I'd thrown down the gauntlet and had a series of very uncomfortable, painful conversations with them in which I made it clear that I would not spend time with them unless they respected my relationship.
I felt hurt and resentful that I put everything on the line with my parents, but she seemed to drag her feet with hers. It's not that she hid our relationship from her family -- she didn't. She would mention me and us on the phone with her folks, have me say hello when they skyped -- all of which meant a great deal to me. But a few weeks before her parents visit, she still hadn't told them that we'd be meeting, nor did she tell any of us when that meeting would take place.
She finally informed them shortly before the visit that she'd like them to meet me. They agreed. When they arrived, those plans still hadn't been made. The parents made several dinner reservations that excluded me (I wasn't invited). My girlfriend said she thought my being excluded was insulting and said she'd address it with her parents, however, she went to those dinners and activities, leaving me alone at her place, where I'd been helping her pack up her things, paint her walls, carrying boxes. We had a pretty big fight where I told her how angry I was being left at her home alone, helping her move, while she went out with her parents. It felt like a monumental betrayal and triggered all of my abandonment issues.
During the weekend, she eventually had a talk with her parents where she said she wouldn't come to activities where I wasn't invited. She said they agreed to have lunch together before they left. When she came home and told me this, after another activity I wasn't invited to, I think she wanted me to be happy and grateful, but instead all I felt was seething anger. I was upset that she procrastinated on dealing with these things until after their arrival, putting me in the position of spending the weekend helping with the move while she went out to family activities I was not invited to.
I met the parents. We spent a day together. It went fine, I guess, given the circumstances. The next day she went to another dinner that I wasn't invited to, with some friends of her parents, leaving me among her boxes. This took place after the conversation where she told her parents she wouldn't attend events from which I was excluded. She explained to me that she felt this particular dinner was not one she could boycott.. and apparently the whole "never again" thing was for the future, not this weekend. Another big fight ensued. I understood the predicament she was in -- it would have been very bad for her and hurtful to her parents for her to not attend that dinner -- but I felt she violated her word and disrespected both me and the relationship again.
She moved in but we're still fighting about that weekend. Although my girlfriend admits she should have handled things differently, and said she would not put me in that position again, she felt hurt by my anger, upset that I didn't understand her relationship with her folks (she's not as close to them as I am to mine) and angered by my sarcasm and tone. Meanwhile, I'm still very angry over her unwillingness to plan her parents visit in a way that would have treated our relationship with respect -- and upset that she seems to not fully understand just how disrespectful and hurtful her decisions were.
So here are the things I need help evaluating/re-framing:
1. Can I (we) move on from this? The weekend raised questions for both of us about the viability of the relationship. I find myself wanting reassurance, but she can't really provide it as she's questioning the relationship, too. I can't stop thinking that I would never have treated her the way she treated me that weekend, vis a vis my family. To me, her willingness to leave me at her apartment among her boxes while she entertained her family at events from which I was explicitly excluded -- the same weekend we're moving in together -- felt like a monumental betrayal. She's apologized, but it doesn't seem like enough. I want to forgive her, but I don't know how. What could recovering from this look like? Specific, concrete examples please.
2. How do we handle living together while we're questioning the relationship? Moving in together is always a transition, even without drama. But waking up everyday knowing that we're both questioning the relationship feels pretty awful to me. As someone with an avoidant-fearful attachment style, I often fear that my partner doesn't really want to be with me. This fear feels magnified during unresolved conflict. And.. it doesn't help that she can't provide the kind of reassurance I'd like to hear. I guess I'd like to hear her say "I'm sorry. I love you. I handled this very poorly. I know why you'd think my behavior indicates that I'm not committed to you and us -- but I am. I want to be with you and I want to make this work." Instead, when I brought this up, she told me that during the weekend blowup, she felt as though she had "one foot in and one foot out" of the relationship, but that she decided to try and move past it. This was pretty devastating to me. I worry that my fears are actually based in reality -- that she isn't very committed to the relationship, and is taking a "wait and see" attitude. We're both unsure about the relationship, but I'm the one regularly asking her to talk about the issues and try to figure out how we can reconnect. This generally ends with an argument and her pulling away. This cycle sucks. How can we get unstuck.. while making it through the day-to-day routine of being under the same roof? It feels unauthentic to me to just make small talk and chit chat over dinner when the relationship feels so insecure and uncertain. But is this what real couples in LTRs do during difficult times?
3. I have a feeling that although my emotions are legitimate, I may be blowing thing out of proportion and potentially sabotaging a promising relationship. Should I trust her actions -- the fact that she did move in with me, did introduce me to the parents (despite the crappy circumstances) and is still currently expressing a desire to work things out -- as evidence of her commitment? Am I just overreacting? Is there another way of interpreting all of this that would not feel quite so upsetting?
4. How do I deal with the sadness I feel over our moving in together going so poorly? I would have liked for this experience to have brought us closer together, emotionally -- instead, it's been a mess. I keep feeling like the very unromantic rockiness of our move-in-process is some kind of referendum on the relationship -- that this uncertainty means we're doomed. Can/should I reframe this?
Lots of :ahem: unpacking here.
1. I think you need to believe your partner when she apologizes. You say you want more, but you're not particularly clear on what else you want -- is your problem that she didn't apologize the right way? If I'm in your partner's shoes I'd expect you to drop the move-in-weekend issues at this point; it sounds like she's apologized and has promised to try and do better, and that's really all you can ask for. Try to separate this from the rest of the relationship at this point.
2. I agree with the "space" recommendation.
3. Try to avoid thinking of emotions as legitimate or illegitimate -- your emotions are what they are, but you can control how you react to them. As for "trusting her actions," in all relationships I try to believe what people tell me unless they give me a reason to believe otherwise.
4. What people find to be deal breakers in their relationships is pretty personal; nothing you've described here would be a deal breaker to me, but maybe something here is for you. I would approach it by communicating my feelings early and often with my partner.
posted by craven_morhead at 8:40 AM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
1. I think you need to believe your partner when she apologizes. You say you want more, but you're not particularly clear on what else you want -- is your problem that she didn't apologize the right way? If I'm in your partner's shoes I'd expect you to drop the move-in-weekend issues at this point; it sounds like she's apologized and has promised to try and do better, and that's really all you can ask for. Try to separate this from the rest of the relationship at this point.
2. I agree with the "space" recommendation.
3. Try to avoid thinking of emotions as legitimate or illegitimate -- your emotions are what they are, but you can control how you react to them. As for "trusting her actions," in all relationships I try to believe what people tell me unless they give me a reason to believe otherwise.
4. What people find to be deal breakers in their relationships is pretty personal; nothing you've described here would be a deal breaker to me, but maybe something here is for you. I would approach it by communicating my feelings early and often with my partner.
posted by craven_morhead at 8:40 AM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
I am not a DTFMA person. First let me say that you have every right to feel hurt over her actions with her parents.
You need to consciously forgive her. Tell yourself, tell her, you forgive her. Then anytime your heart aches over her actions, tell yourself you forgave her. This is the first step. You need to get over the heartache in order to move on.
She has qualities that you loved before this event happened. Focus on those. What do you love about her? What were the feelings you had about her before all this happened?
I suggest a date or a romantic getaway. Go do something that you both really enjoyed in the past. Maybe to go a restaurant that holds special meaning for the two of you. Your goal is to drudge up happy memories of the past - before the weekend with her parents happened.
posted by royalsong at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2014 [4 favorites]
You need to consciously forgive her. Tell yourself, tell her, you forgive her. Then anytime your heart aches over her actions, tell yourself you forgave her. This is the first step. You need to get over the heartache in order to move on.
She has qualities that you loved before this event happened. Focus on those. What do you love about her? What were the feelings you had about her before all this happened?
I suggest a date or a romantic getaway. Go do something that you both really enjoyed in the past. Maybe to go a restaurant that holds special meaning for the two of you. Your goal is to drudge up happy memories of the past - before the weekend with her parents happened.
posted by royalsong at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: She's apologized, but it doesn't seem like enough.
That right there is your issue. Do you want this relationship to continue? Or do you want it to stop right here at this point until she does the ineffable right thing that will make the whole shitty week not have happened? Because that is not something she can do.
What happened was undeniably shitty. If it made you realize things about your girlfriend that mean you don't want to be in a relationship together, that's fine. Moving out also happens, is also shitty, is lives through able. But if you want to keep trying, then maybe try to accept that she is sorry, that the weekend was shitty for her too even if it felt like you were getting the short end (maybe she would have rather dealt with boxes than homophobic parents, and let that blind her to how much work you were doing). Then, stop waiting for her to make right and start living your lives together. Do some romantic things. Reaffirm the things that made you want to take this step together. These are issues that will be there to be dealt with. If it helps, moving has never brought me closer to my partner, though living together has. Moving always just brought us close to tears.
Also, are you guys spending all your free time together since moving in? Just a thought. Make sure you're both doing things outside the house.
posted by theweasel at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2014 [23 favorites]
That right there is your issue. Do you want this relationship to continue? Or do you want it to stop right here at this point until she does the ineffable right thing that will make the whole shitty week not have happened? Because that is not something she can do.
What happened was undeniably shitty. If it made you realize things about your girlfriend that mean you don't want to be in a relationship together, that's fine. Moving out also happens, is also shitty, is lives through able. But if you want to keep trying, then maybe try to accept that she is sorry, that the weekend was shitty for her too even if it felt like you were getting the short end (maybe she would have rather dealt with boxes than homophobic parents, and let that blind her to how much work you were doing). Then, stop waiting for her to make right and start living your lives together. Do some romantic things. Reaffirm the things that made you want to take this step together. These are issues that will be there to be dealt with. If it helps, moving has never brought me closer to my partner, though living together has. Moving always just brought us close to tears.
Also, are you guys spending all your free time together since moving in? Just a thought. Make sure you're both doing things outside the house.
posted by theweasel at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2014 [23 favorites]
Best answer: I totally get why you were upset, but on reading this it really seems like your girlfriend was trying. She eventually did introduce you, and you did have dinner with her parents. Sometimes these things just take time. What seems like dragging feet to you might just be that this is difficult, and she is trying to ease in on it.
posted by bearette at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by bearette at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2014 [20 favorites]
Best answer: Not all parent-child relationships are created equal. For some adult children, it's really difficult not to feel like a 7 year old when trying to talk to your parents about big, grown up things. And then even if the adult child stops feeling or doesn't feel that way, it can be difficult for parents to understand that their child isn't that 7 year old any more --- it can, in other words, be difficult for parents to trust their own parenting so it's easier to purposefully or subconsciously treat your 30 year old adult daughter like she was 17.
And these can be hard patterns to break out of for anyone under the best of circumstances and relationships -- but add in the stress of your partner perhaps not having any idea how her homophobic parent would react to this move while it was in fact happening, and I'd cut her some slack. Give it some time, and when this has passed, talk to her more about her relationship with her parents. It's possible throwing down the gauntlet is actually the wrong course of action with her parents and possibly for her.
Lastly, as someone whose been in a relationship for 14 years --- you can be right, or you can be happy. You can continue pushing back on this, or you can accept the apology she can give you and you can support her going forward in your dealings with her parents, and you can, likely, be very happy with her. Or you can keep pushing on her to get what you want and be right --- but maybe not be happy. I'd venture to say since you're not happy, the latter isn't working for you so great a the moment.
posted by zizzle at 8:43 AM on September 17, 2014 [24 favorites]
And these can be hard patterns to break out of for anyone under the best of circumstances and relationships -- but add in the stress of your partner perhaps not having any idea how her homophobic parent would react to this move while it was in fact happening, and I'd cut her some slack. Give it some time, and when this has passed, talk to her more about her relationship with her parents. It's possible throwing down the gauntlet is actually the wrong course of action with her parents and possibly for her.
Lastly, as someone whose been in a relationship for 14 years --- you can be right, or you can be happy. You can continue pushing back on this, or you can accept the apology she can give you and you can support her going forward in your dealings with her parents, and you can, likely, be very happy with her. Or you can keep pushing on her to get what you want and be right --- but maybe not be happy. I'd venture to say since you're not happy, the latter isn't working for you so great a the moment.
posted by zizzle at 8:43 AM on September 17, 2014 [24 favorites]
Best answer: Another thing to consider: some people are really, really awful about moving.
One of the only times I've ever seriously questioned my relationship with my husband was during our last move, when after a week of his spending his evenings "packing up" our old apartment, I arrived to find that he'd actually just wandered around picking things up and putting them down elsewhere and sort of thinking about how to pack them, and I therefore had to do basically everything in a couple of hours in the middle of the night.
I love my husband! He's a very good man! I am glad to be married to him!
When we move, I basically want to kill him.
So that may be one thing to keep in mind, looking back over what sounds like a really stressful and shitty process. The issues with her parents are one thing, and you should take that seriously; but try and separate the moving stuff out.
People can be awful about moving and still be great partners, as long as you don't have to move more than once every few years.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:49 AM on September 17, 2014 [38 favorites]
One of the only times I've ever seriously questioned my relationship with my husband was during our last move, when after a week of his spending his evenings "packing up" our old apartment, I arrived to find that he'd actually just wandered around picking things up and putting them down elsewhere and sort of thinking about how to pack them, and I therefore had to do basically everything in a couple of hours in the middle of the night.
I love my husband! He's a very good man! I am glad to be married to him!
When we move, I basically want to kill him.
So that may be one thing to keep in mind, looking back over what sounds like a really stressful and shitty process. The issues with her parents are one thing, and you should take that seriously; but try and separate the moving stuff out.
People can be awful about moving and still be great partners, as long as you don't have to move more than once every few years.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:49 AM on September 17, 2014 [38 favorites]
...it doesn't help that she can't provide the kind of reassurance I'd like to hear.
We're both unsure about the relationship, but I'm the one regularly asking her to talk about the issues and try to figure out how we can reconnect.
There are two things that stand out for me:
1. If you want reassurance, you can't have honesty here, if what you want to hear is that she is fully committed. Maybe she values complete disclosure more than you? (Hiding doubts is fine imho, but it helps to know what each of you really want).
2. If you are both unsure as you say, does that mean you are also expressing doubts to her? If not, are you hiding your feelings? Are you demanding reassurance from her that you aren't able to express to her?
From your post, it sounds like you are expressing your doubts by being angry about her mishandling of this situation.
I mean, it sucked, the way she dealt with it, but there are some times in our lives when we can't win and we have no practice before we face the negotiation, so we just give in and fuck it up. (or at least I've had such times, maybe everyone else is way more together than i am!!)
posted by girlpublisher at 8:52 AM on September 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
We're both unsure about the relationship, but I'm the one regularly asking her to talk about the issues and try to figure out how we can reconnect.
There are two things that stand out for me:
1. If you want reassurance, you can't have honesty here, if what you want to hear is that she is fully committed. Maybe she values complete disclosure more than you? (Hiding doubts is fine imho, but it helps to know what each of you really want).
2. If you are both unsure as you say, does that mean you are also expressing doubts to her? If not, are you hiding your feelings? Are you demanding reassurance from her that you aren't able to express to her?
From your post, it sounds like you are expressing your doubts by being angry about her mishandling of this situation.
I mean, it sucked, the way she dealt with it, but there are some times in our lives when we can't win and we have no practice before we face the negotiation, so we just give in and fuck it up. (or at least I've had such times, maybe everyone else is way more together than i am!!)
posted by girlpublisher at 8:52 AM on September 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
Best answer: OMG moving for whatever reason AND moving in together AND introducing first queer/lesbian partner to parents who may not be all that approving? That's enough for a few MONTHS not a single weekend.
Take like 500 steps back. Look at each other. Order take out. Set a blanket on the ground, put candles all around, put on some music, have a meal together, talk about what colors you might paint the walls or what kind of places you'd like to visit.
Get centered again. Things will probably fall into place. But you've got way too much going on to realistically evaluate anything from any sane perspective. Get that perspective, go out for drinks with friends, walk around your neighborhood, give each other space in the apartment at different times, and see how the next few months shake out.
posted by barnone at 8:55 AM on September 17, 2014 [28 favorites]
Take like 500 steps back. Look at each other. Order take out. Set a blanket on the ground, put candles all around, put on some music, have a meal together, talk about what colors you might paint the walls or what kind of places you'd like to visit.
Get centered again. Things will probably fall into place. But you've got way too much going on to realistically evaluate anything from any sane perspective. Get that perspective, go out for drinks with friends, walk around your neighborhood, give each other space in the apartment at different times, and see how the next few months shake out.
posted by barnone at 8:55 AM on September 17, 2014 [28 favorites]
Response by poster: Girlpublisher: Not threadsitting, but yes, to answer your question, I've shared my doubts (and basically everything I wrote in this post) with her.
posted by Gray Skies at 8:55 AM on September 17, 2014
posted by Gray Skies at 8:55 AM on September 17, 2014
Best answer: 1. Can I (we) move on from this?
Yes, of course. If you want to move on from this, there's no "reason" not to. I don't personally think that either of you showed some kind of unforgivable lapse of integrity or anything. I think that maybe she was kind of callous and you were kind of needy. But hey, everyone's human, that kind of thing happens.
2. How do we handle living together while we're questioning the relationship?
Plan to have space from each other throughout the day, every day. I know that when I'm suddenly in a much more intimate situation like that, I try to enforce boundaries by becoming very cold and sometimes even rude. This is a thing I've tried to change about myself, but it's always my impulse.
You guys have already increased your intimacy exponentially by moving in together and by you meeting your gf's parents. Now is a good time for a cool-off period. Eventually you'll find an equilibrium, but probably neither unrelenting intimacy nor breaking up is going to be that equilibrium.
Consciously take some space from each other so that you don't instead instinctively carve out that space by pushing each other away.
3. Am I just overreacting?
Like others have said, you feel what you feel. But you don't have to *do* anything with those feelings. Just sit with them for awhile. There's no urgency, this isn't actually an emergency.
4. How do I deal with the sadness I feel over our moving in together going so poorly? I would have liked for this experience to have brought us closer together, emotionally -- instead, it's been a mess.
This sounds like it was the weekend from hell! Moving *and* a parental visit *and* an SO introduction *and* trying to get old people to not be homophobic anymore?! I mean, of course that was difficult and blood ran hot and everyone is now exhausted. I don't think that necessarily means anything about the relationship. To me, it sounds like, "messy situation was a mess."
Anyway, it's not *this* transition stuff that's supposed to bring you guys closer together, it's the new stage that it's ushering in that's going to increase the intimacy. It wasn't the *move* that was important, it's that now you have begun living together. It wasn't the *introduction* that was important, it's that now you have begun to have a relationship with her parents. Etc.
Also, I think that it might have been more of a struggle and compromise than you realize for your gf to get her parents to break bread with you and act welcoming toward you, even if just for the one night. If it was a struggle for her to get them to acknowledge you (which imo it sounds like it was), then of course she didn't want to ruin that compromise by "punishing" her parents during the rest of the visit. In general, I think you need to let her take charge of her relationship with her own parents. If she thinks that incremental change will work better than taking a hard, adversarial line with them, then back her on that. If you know she's generally a kind, good person, then I think that you have to give her the benefit of the doubt that she did the best she could in terms of the introduction and how she handled their visit, and let it go. Try your best to think the best of her.
posted by rue72 at 9:00 AM on September 17, 2014 [12 favorites]
Yes, of course. If you want to move on from this, there's no "reason" not to. I don't personally think that either of you showed some kind of unforgivable lapse of integrity or anything. I think that maybe she was kind of callous and you were kind of needy. But hey, everyone's human, that kind of thing happens.
2. How do we handle living together while we're questioning the relationship?
Plan to have space from each other throughout the day, every day. I know that when I'm suddenly in a much more intimate situation like that, I try to enforce boundaries by becoming very cold and sometimes even rude. This is a thing I've tried to change about myself, but it's always my impulse.
You guys have already increased your intimacy exponentially by moving in together and by you meeting your gf's parents. Now is a good time for a cool-off period. Eventually you'll find an equilibrium, but probably neither unrelenting intimacy nor breaking up is going to be that equilibrium.
Consciously take some space from each other so that you don't instead instinctively carve out that space by pushing each other away.
3. Am I just overreacting?
Like others have said, you feel what you feel. But you don't have to *do* anything with those feelings. Just sit with them for awhile. There's no urgency, this isn't actually an emergency.
4. How do I deal with the sadness I feel over our moving in together going so poorly? I would have liked for this experience to have brought us closer together, emotionally -- instead, it's been a mess.
This sounds like it was the weekend from hell! Moving *and* a parental visit *and* an SO introduction *and* trying to get old people to not be homophobic anymore?! I mean, of course that was difficult and blood ran hot and everyone is now exhausted. I don't think that necessarily means anything about the relationship. To me, it sounds like, "messy situation was a mess."
Anyway, it's not *this* transition stuff that's supposed to bring you guys closer together, it's the new stage that it's ushering in that's going to increase the intimacy. It wasn't the *move* that was important, it's that now you have begun living together. It wasn't the *introduction* that was important, it's that now you have begun to have a relationship with her parents. Etc.
Also, I think that it might have been more of a struggle and compromise than you realize for your gf to get her parents to break bread with you and act welcoming toward you, even if just for the one night. If it was a struggle for her to get them to acknowledge you (which imo it sounds like it was), then of course she didn't want to ruin that compromise by "punishing" her parents during the rest of the visit. In general, I think you need to let her take charge of her relationship with her own parents. If she thinks that incremental change will work better than taking a hard, adversarial line with them, then back her on that. If you know she's generally a kind, good person, then I think that you have to give her the benefit of the doubt that she did the best she could in terms of the introduction and how she handled their visit, and let it go. Try your best to think the best of her.
posted by rue72 at 9:00 AM on September 17, 2014 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Your main problem with this person seems to be that she is a slob with poor time management skills and a tendency to procrastinate scary or horrible things. You're mistaking these qualities for disdain. As someone who is exactly like your girlfriend, I would like to posit that it's actually normal and forgivable not to have an amazing ability to confront adversity and plan for it and just do a bang-up job packing up all your godawful possessions and moving them from place to place. It's also normal and forgivable not to be an absolute whiz about getting your horrible scary homophobic a-hole family to accept your girlfriend because you are fantastic at making your needs known and because you have listened to every single Savage Lovecast and Learned and Grown as a Person and as a Lesbian.
It's common for people like me to seek out people like you because people like you are like crack to people like me. How about yourself? Do you want another Tracy Flick like yourself for a girlfriend? Or did you pick this woman beCAUSE she's nothing like you? In the case that the latter explanation fits, you must learn to live with her often charming often infuriating always not-you-like qualities. Why did you sit in her apartment among her boxes torturing yourself over the week that her parents were there and she was supposed to be moving? Those are her dag boxes and they are her dag problem. Don't do anything you don't want to do and then blame her for it later. It is not the case that if you had not been there the boxes would've remained in her old apartment forever. The problem did not need you to solve it. You ought to have gone out and frolicked, yourself. It would've been more fun than meeting the folks, anyway, and then she'd've come home from the onerous dinner and been all, "wha...? where is Gray Skies? What's all this mess everywhere? Oh no! I have to do all this, now! It did not magically go away! And what if Gray Skies noticed that I broke my 'never again' promise and is gone forever?!" Then you'd've come home at 3 or 4 in the morning yelling your raucous goodbyes to your really fun friends and burst into her apartment all smelling of the fresh outdoors and in no kind of bad mood whatsoever.
You don't have to and should not resent her for her failure to be Tracy Flick, but you don't have to and should not suffer from it, either.
(Please know that "Tracy Flick" is not intended to be a pejorative. I love her and would marry her if she existed and would have me.)
posted by Don Pepino at 9:09 AM on September 17, 2014 [56 favorites]
It's common for people like me to seek out people like you because people like you are like crack to people like me. How about yourself? Do you want another Tracy Flick like yourself for a girlfriend? Or did you pick this woman beCAUSE she's nothing like you? In the case that the latter explanation fits, you must learn to live with her often charming often infuriating always not-you-like qualities. Why did you sit in her apartment among her boxes torturing yourself over the week that her parents were there and she was supposed to be moving? Those are her dag boxes and they are her dag problem. Don't do anything you don't want to do and then blame her for it later. It is not the case that if you had not been there the boxes would've remained in her old apartment forever. The problem did not need you to solve it. You ought to have gone out and frolicked, yourself. It would've been more fun than meeting the folks, anyway, and then she'd've come home from the onerous dinner and been all, "wha...? where is Gray Skies? What's all this mess everywhere? Oh no! I have to do all this, now! It did not magically go away! And what if Gray Skies noticed that I broke my 'never again' promise and is gone forever?!" Then you'd've come home at 3 or 4 in the morning yelling your raucous goodbyes to your really fun friends and burst into her apartment all smelling of the fresh outdoors and in no kind of bad mood whatsoever.
You don't have to and should not resent her for her failure to be Tracy Flick, but you don't have to and should not suffer from it, either.
(Please know that "Tracy Flick" is not intended to be a pejorative. I love her and would marry her if she existed and would have me.)
posted by Don Pepino at 9:09 AM on September 17, 2014 [56 favorites]
Best answer: I totally get why you were upset, but on reading this it really seems like your girlfriend was trying. She eventually did introduce you, and you did have dinner with her parents. Sometimes these things just take time. What seems like dragging feet to you might just be that this is difficult, and she is trying to ease in on it.
I'm going to take this a step further. It's clear that your feelings were hurt that weekend, and I understand why. But, I think you're being a little uncharitable towards your girlfriend and how she dealt with the situation.
Look, coming out to your parents is hard and scary. You should know that; you've done it yourself. But the coming out is only step one. Having the conversation with them so that they intellectually understand that you're with a same-sex partner is one thing. Introducing them to that partner and negotiating the discomfort of all parties is a totally different, even harder thing. I think you need to allow for the fact that this was maybe a really difficult, scary thing for her, and while she didn't handle it the way you would have liked her to, she maybe handled it the best she could.
I'd already invested a lot of emotional energy and time into smoothing things over with my own homophobic parents, who eventually met her and warmly welcomed her into the family home with open arms -- only after I'd thrown down the gauntlet and had a series of very uncomfortable, painful conversations with them...
Okay, good for you. BUT. Everyone's family is different. You can't expect her family to be like yours. You can't expect her way of dealing with her family to be the same as the way you deal with yours. You need to give her a break on this one. Your feelings were hurt, yes, and that sucks. But maybe give her the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that she tried. Your first time out -- "out" being introducing a girlfriend to your parents -- trying is pretty much the best you can do.
It gets easier, by the way. But the first time? Man, there's so much wrapped up in the first time, you need to give it/her some latitude.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:27 AM on September 17, 2014 [19 favorites]
I'm going to take this a step further. It's clear that your feelings were hurt that weekend, and I understand why. But, I think you're being a little uncharitable towards your girlfriend and how she dealt with the situation.
Look, coming out to your parents is hard and scary. You should know that; you've done it yourself. But the coming out is only step one. Having the conversation with them so that they intellectually understand that you're with a same-sex partner is one thing. Introducing them to that partner and negotiating the discomfort of all parties is a totally different, even harder thing. I think you need to allow for the fact that this was maybe a really difficult, scary thing for her, and while she didn't handle it the way you would have liked her to, she maybe handled it the best she could.
I'd already invested a lot of emotional energy and time into smoothing things over with my own homophobic parents, who eventually met her and warmly welcomed her into the family home with open arms -- only after I'd thrown down the gauntlet and had a series of very uncomfortable, painful conversations with them...
Okay, good for you. BUT. Everyone's family is different. You can't expect her family to be like yours. You can't expect her way of dealing with her family to be the same as the way you deal with yours. You need to give her a break on this one. Your feelings were hurt, yes, and that sucks. But maybe give her the benefit of the doubt and acknowledge that she tried. Your first time out -- "out" being introducing a girlfriend to your parents -- trying is pretty much the best you can do.
It gets easier, by the way. But the first time? Man, there's so much wrapped up in the first time, you need to give it/her some latitude.
posted by mudpuppie at 9:27 AM on September 17, 2014 [19 favorites]
Best answer: As a person who struggles with being out to my parents*, your letter suggests that you may not quite be able to recognize where your girlfriend is as with her family, maybe because you have invested so much energy and thought into your own relationship with your family. Your letter makes me feel like you're expecting her to be a version of you - that her family is amenable to the tactics you've used, that she is able to use them, and that her failure to do so is a failure of character and it's aimed at you.
I think that empathizing with her more about her family and how she deals with them would help - like, really try to get what's holding her back from these conversations. Being treated with contempt and cruelty in childhood by your family around this stuff is different from just having clueless/homophobic parents; being close to parents and then negotiating this stuff out is different from having a very distant relationship. Why is she distant from her parents?
I also wonder if you're able to ask for what you need. I am precisely the kind of person who would get abandoned among the boxes and then spend the day dealing with the boxes and feeling angrier and more rejected and hurt until I became unable to let go. What led you to end up in that situation instead of just saying "I'm not going to do all this myself"? What led you to arrange the move without friends to help? For me, it's usually about not even thinking that I am able to get help from others and about a feeling that if I just punish myself enough, someone will step in to tell me that I can stop and that I must be a very good person if I am willing to work myself into misery.
I would be really upset if my girlfriend responded as yours did, with the whole "one foot out the door" thing. That would be incredibly destructive to me.
Honestly, I don't think the thing with the parents is irrecoverable - what seems pretty bad to me is the "I push her to talk about her feelings, she pulls away, we fight" dynamic. That sounds like you just aren't on the same page about how you deal with stuff.
I feel like it would be legit for you to need some extra care after the awful move-in weekend - you did power through a shitty and painful situation, and I think that things like fancy dinners or lots of praise and thanks or whatever would make you feel more loved are what you deserve in that situation.
I think you should stop being "on the fence" - commit (with some specific conditions - maybe a few therapist visits for your girlfriend to help her sort out this stuff about her family, for one thing) or break up. It can be so soul-killing to be living with someone where you're sort of mutually auditioning, and I think it ends up killing the relationship regardless.
Are you able to have separate rooms? Separate rooms helps with a lot of stuff, anyway.
*Parents have been present while people yelled homophobic slurs from a car at me and then they denied that it happened. Parents dismiss how unsafe I feel in their [conservative, homophobic] town. Parents have repeatedly expressed how selfish they find it when others put their sexuality ahead of the duty to have a "serious" [ie straight] relationship. Parents have been terrified by and contemptuous of every aspect of my appearance or behavior which suggests that I am not straight. I just....don't really have conversations about my sexuality with my parents. I have not had difficult conversations about this with them, because they have headed off every single difficult conversation I've tried to start, they live far away and I'd have to make a special "come out and get kicked out" visit to them, and it's just incredibly painful to me that they have always preemptively rejected everything about me which is gender/sexuality unacceptable. It's really old-school, like they're parents in the 1970s - most of my queer friends have parents who have come to terms, at least, or who are supportive or tolerant, and I know I'll never have that. It's been very difficult for me to accept that they view being queer as being "selfish" and "immature", which were always the things they threw at me about everything as a child. (It's also hilarious that I am, like, immensely VISIBLY QUEER FROM A MILE AWAY and yet this is not something that my parents will ever acknowledge or address.)
posted by Frowner at 9:31 AM on September 17, 2014 [27 favorites]
I think that empathizing with her more about her family and how she deals with them would help - like, really try to get what's holding her back from these conversations. Being treated with contempt and cruelty in childhood by your family around this stuff is different from just having clueless/homophobic parents; being close to parents and then negotiating this stuff out is different from having a very distant relationship. Why is she distant from her parents?
I also wonder if you're able to ask for what you need. I am precisely the kind of person who would get abandoned among the boxes and then spend the day dealing with the boxes and feeling angrier and more rejected and hurt until I became unable to let go. What led you to end up in that situation instead of just saying "I'm not going to do all this myself"? What led you to arrange the move without friends to help? For me, it's usually about not even thinking that I am able to get help from others and about a feeling that if I just punish myself enough, someone will step in to tell me that I can stop and that I must be a very good person if I am willing to work myself into misery.
I would be really upset if my girlfriend responded as yours did, with the whole "one foot out the door" thing. That would be incredibly destructive to me.
Honestly, I don't think the thing with the parents is irrecoverable - what seems pretty bad to me is the "I push her to talk about her feelings, she pulls away, we fight" dynamic. That sounds like you just aren't on the same page about how you deal with stuff.
I feel like it would be legit for you to need some extra care after the awful move-in weekend - you did power through a shitty and painful situation, and I think that things like fancy dinners or lots of praise and thanks or whatever would make you feel more loved are what you deserve in that situation.
I think you should stop being "on the fence" - commit (with some specific conditions - maybe a few therapist visits for your girlfriend to help her sort out this stuff about her family, for one thing) or break up. It can be so soul-killing to be living with someone where you're sort of mutually auditioning, and I think it ends up killing the relationship regardless.
Are you able to have separate rooms? Separate rooms helps with a lot of stuff, anyway.
*Parents have been present while people yelled homophobic slurs from a car at me and then they denied that it happened. Parents dismiss how unsafe I feel in their [conservative, homophobic] town. Parents have repeatedly expressed how selfish they find it when others put their sexuality ahead of the duty to have a "serious" [ie straight] relationship. Parents have been terrified by and contemptuous of every aspect of my appearance or behavior which suggests that I am not straight. I just....don't really have conversations about my sexuality with my parents. I have not had difficult conversations about this with them, because they have headed off every single difficult conversation I've tried to start, they live far away and I'd have to make a special "come out and get kicked out" visit to them, and it's just incredibly painful to me that they have always preemptively rejected everything about me which is gender/sexuality unacceptable. It's really old-school, like they're parents in the 1970s - most of my queer friends have parents who have come to terms, at least, or who are supportive or tolerant, and I know I'll never have that. It's been very difficult for me to accept that they view being queer as being "selfish" and "immature", which were always the things they threw at me about everything as a child. (It's also hilarious that I am, like, immensely VISIBLY QUEER FROM A MILE AWAY and yet this is not something that my parents will ever acknowledge or address.)
posted by Frowner at 9:31 AM on September 17, 2014 [27 favorites]
Best answer: Slightly different perspective here and just setting aside the drama...
1) It sounds like your partner had every intention of carrying half the load for your move-in weekend, but due to the inflexibility of her parents visit, all of that fell to you. That happens -- I've packed and moved us by myself when my partner had to be unexpectedly out of town. You guys are a team, and sometimes one person carries the team to victory.
2) It seems you got to met her parents and had lunch with them. That is a major hurdle crossed. That is great. I understand you're pissed off you didn't get an invitation to every dinner, but I'm not sure that's even a reasonable expectation. I get that you wanted this to be the "we are now an official social unit" watershed event, but expecting her and them to work on your timescale is not reasonable. She can make it clear to them that for future visits, that's the expectation, but expecting them all to adapt to that promise mid-visit isn't the hill you want to die on.
3) Moving is horrible; cut each other a TON OF SLACK. The week after I moved in with my now-husband, I was sobbing down the phone to my best friend saying "I've made the worst mistake of my life!" because it was so, so bad. And while at the time I was deeply disappointed I have to tell you that 10 years later, it matters not at all.
4) Y'all cannot hang your relationship out over the water so easily. You need to be able to have huge fights and yell and scream and shout from the safety of the shore, knowing that no matter how pissed and hurt you both are at this moment, it's safe to be pissed because nobody is going to call the whole relationship into question, and that is not going to be at stake.
Figure out what you want to happen, concretely and not in terms of feelings: "I put a lot into helping my family to accept and include you. I would like reciprocity from you with your family. Is that a reasonable expectation on my part, or do I need to adjust my expectations?"
posted by DarlingBri at 9:31 AM on September 17, 2014 [13 favorites]
1) It sounds like your partner had every intention of carrying half the load for your move-in weekend, but due to the inflexibility of her parents visit, all of that fell to you. That happens -- I've packed and moved us by myself when my partner had to be unexpectedly out of town. You guys are a team, and sometimes one person carries the team to victory.
2) It seems you got to met her parents and had lunch with them. That is a major hurdle crossed. That is great. I understand you're pissed off you didn't get an invitation to every dinner, but I'm not sure that's even a reasonable expectation. I get that you wanted this to be the "we are now an official social unit" watershed event, but expecting her and them to work on your timescale is not reasonable. She can make it clear to them that for future visits, that's the expectation, but expecting them all to adapt to that promise mid-visit isn't the hill you want to die on.
3) Moving is horrible; cut each other a TON OF SLACK. The week after I moved in with my now-husband, I was sobbing down the phone to my best friend saying "I've made the worst mistake of my life!" because it was so, so bad. And while at the time I was deeply disappointed I have to tell you that 10 years later, it matters not at all.
4) Y'all cannot hang your relationship out over the water so easily. You need to be able to have huge fights and yell and scream and shout from the safety of the shore, knowing that no matter how pissed and hurt you both are at this moment, it's safe to be pissed because nobody is going to call the whole relationship into question, and that is not going to be at stake.
Figure out what you want to happen, concretely and not in terms of feelings: "I put a lot into helping my family to accept and include you. I would like reciprocity from you with your family. Is that a reasonable expectation on my part, or do I need to adjust my expectations?"
posted by DarlingBri at 9:31 AM on September 17, 2014 [13 favorites]
Best answer: It took me a long time to stop being annoyed at my then-bf, now-partner after I basically singlehandedly moved him from one apartment to another due to his lack of planning and inability to pack -- and that was without a stressful and unannounced parental visit that you had to deal with! We've now moved three different times and each time I've taken the lion's share of work and each time I get soooo frustrated at having to be "the one in charge".
But I did, and do, stop being annoyed (and now the first move is now a funny story for us) because I'm not perfect either and we both have different strengths and weaknesses. I completely suck at some things that he is great at and vice versa. There are times when one of us is The Hero and one of us is the Damsel (or Dude) In Distress and it feels really unbalanced. But things even out. We are on each others' teams.
It sounds from your question like you have been really happy together and she has a lot of good qualities. Allow yourself to feel hurt and pissed, and figure out if there are systems to put in place (use movers next time!) and specific expectations to articulate ('I need XY days of notice before parents come in to town and I want to attend all family events') or goodwill-restoring requests ('Can you plan a date for us that involves this, this and this?').
And yeah, take some time out. You just MOVED IN TOGETHER, for goodness' sake -- even if you'd had a smooth moving process and no parental visit, this would be stressful! Take time and do some solo activities or activities with old friends, and don't rush to a decision. Allow your partner opportunities to show you affection and to put effort into the relationship.
posted by rogerrogerwhatsyourrvectorvicto at 9:42 AM on September 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
But I did, and do, stop being annoyed (and now the first move is now a funny story for us) because I'm not perfect either and we both have different strengths and weaknesses. I completely suck at some things that he is great at and vice versa. There are times when one of us is The Hero and one of us is the Damsel (or Dude) In Distress and it feels really unbalanced. But things even out. We are on each others' teams.
It sounds from your question like you have been really happy together and she has a lot of good qualities. Allow yourself to feel hurt and pissed, and figure out if there are systems to put in place (use movers next time!) and specific expectations to articulate ('I need XY days of notice before parents come in to town and I want to attend all family events') or goodwill-restoring requests ('Can you plan a date for us that involves this, this and this?').
And yeah, take some time out. You just MOVED IN TOGETHER, for goodness' sake -- even if you'd had a smooth moving process and no parental visit, this would be stressful! Take time and do some solo activities or activities with old friends, and don't rush to a decision. Allow your partner opportunities to show you affection and to put effort into the relationship.
posted by rogerrogerwhatsyourrvectorvicto at 9:42 AM on September 17, 2014 [2 favorites]
You can't keep living your anger. It's poisoning your relationship.
What if that last dinner with old family friends was with her childhood pastor? That's not really the time you want to put your foot down with your folks and say, "My Partner or I'm not going!" There are some social situations that are really too sticky.
You don't have to be invited to everything. That's childish. Now if it's a family dinner including spouses and SOs, yes, that's an appropriate battle. Visiting Nana who is 102, living in a home, and doesn't acknowledge any social progress since the Eisenhower administration...whole other kettle of fish.
Even for straight couples when you first meet the family, it's hard for them to accept the newcomer. It took a couple of years for my parents to 'get' Husbunny and a couple more on top of that for them to really love him. As for him, he's pretty 'meh' about my family. I get that, I can be pretty 'meh' about them myself! (Noisy and pushy, the lot of 'em.)
Give yourself a gift and forgive her. She's not perfect and she wasn't well prepared to deal with her parents and you and moving and all the other shit that went down. You had VERY HIGH expectations about moving in. Moving in is about adjusting to each other and learning how to partner and solve problems together. It's not some magical rite-of-passage that suddenly confers a soft pink fog around the two of you that means you're ONE UNIT! Mostly it's building a life with a wonderful person, who drops her clothes on the floor right NEXT to the hamper, doesn't scoop out the cat box like she said she would and plain forgot to pick up the mail on her way in.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:43 AM on September 17, 2014 [6 favorites]
What if that last dinner with old family friends was with her childhood pastor? That's not really the time you want to put your foot down with your folks and say, "My Partner or I'm not going!" There are some social situations that are really too sticky.
You don't have to be invited to everything. That's childish. Now if it's a family dinner including spouses and SOs, yes, that's an appropriate battle. Visiting Nana who is 102, living in a home, and doesn't acknowledge any social progress since the Eisenhower administration...whole other kettle of fish.
Even for straight couples when you first meet the family, it's hard for them to accept the newcomer. It took a couple of years for my parents to 'get' Husbunny and a couple more on top of that for them to really love him. As for him, he's pretty 'meh' about my family. I get that, I can be pretty 'meh' about them myself! (Noisy and pushy, the lot of 'em.)
Give yourself a gift and forgive her. She's not perfect and she wasn't well prepared to deal with her parents and you and moving and all the other shit that went down. You had VERY HIGH expectations about moving in. Moving in is about adjusting to each other and learning how to partner and solve problems together. It's not some magical rite-of-passage that suddenly confers a soft pink fog around the two of you that means you're ONE UNIT! Mostly it's building a life with a wonderful person, who drops her clothes on the floor right NEXT to the hamper, doesn't scoop out the cat box like she said she would and plain forgot to pick up the mail on her way in.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:43 AM on September 17, 2014 [6 favorites]
I think there are different issues here, and you are understandably hurt over this.
If this is her first lesbian relationship where she has introduced a girlfriend to her parents, that means it's extremely, extremely likely that while she may be out to her parents, she is not out to her parent's friends, and she is not "out" in the way that you would define being out. It's possible they still hope that girls are just a phase she is going through and that she will eventually see the light.
If she has one foot in and one foot out, she may not be willing to go through the hard work of being out - and embarrassing her parents - for someone she's not sure she's committed to. But I'd think the lack of commitment there is the real problem.
You need to talk to her about what moving in together means for both of your commitment levels. If it means being a unit to everything, then that is something you need to ask for, and she needs to decide if she can provide it.
posted by corb at 9:44 AM on September 17, 2014 [4 favorites]
If this is her first lesbian relationship where she has introduced a girlfriend to her parents, that means it's extremely, extremely likely that while she may be out to her parents, she is not out to her parent's friends, and she is not "out" in the way that you would define being out. It's possible they still hope that girls are just a phase she is going through and that she will eventually see the light.
If she has one foot in and one foot out, she may not be willing to go through the hard work of being out - and embarrassing her parents - for someone she's not sure she's committed to. But I'd think the lack of commitment there is the real problem.
You need to talk to her about what moving in together means for both of your commitment levels. If it means being a unit to everything, then that is something you need to ask for, and she needs to decide if she can provide it.
posted by corb at 9:44 AM on September 17, 2014 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I totally get why you were upset, but on reading this it really seems like your girlfriend was trying.
I'm actually not getting this, or not getting it enough. Sure, she said "sorry" but then she did the exact same thing again. I can see how it would be hard to take her "sorry" as anything but something to shut me up. Unlike other, more gracious posters in this thread, for me she'd be on probation until it was clear she'd changed.
Moreover, it's depressing to discover weaknesses in people we love. The way she handled this was weak from soup to nuts.
However, some of this situation you could decide to change if it should come up again (not likely, since moving in with people is a rare and extra traumatic situation for most of us). For instance, when I'm "stuck" with the boxes, the answer for me is to call people, vent, and then go do something fun. I am NOT getting "stuck" with the boxes ever again. The boxes can wait until SO gets back to help.
If I do decide to get "stuck" I remind myself that I am choosing to do it. And then I unpack (ha! see what I did there?) WHY I'm choosing to do it. Is it because *I* want a place to sleep that night? Is it because I have nothing better to do? Or am I being a martyr? Whatever it is, I take ownership of that decision.
The long and short of it is that every time I'm seething it's because I feel stuck in some way, and it's helpful for me to know that I did, in fact, have agency here. I could have gone out for pizza and a movie with friends. Instead I chose to unpack.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:49 AM on September 17, 2014 [12 favorites]
I'm actually not getting this, or not getting it enough. Sure, she said "sorry" but then she did the exact same thing again. I can see how it would be hard to take her "sorry" as anything but something to shut me up. Unlike other, more gracious posters in this thread, for me she'd be on probation until it was clear she'd changed.
Moreover, it's depressing to discover weaknesses in people we love. The way she handled this was weak from soup to nuts.
However, some of this situation you could decide to change if it should come up again (not likely, since moving in with people is a rare and extra traumatic situation for most of us). For instance, when I'm "stuck" with the boxes, the answer for me is to call people, vent, and then go do something fun. I am NOT getting "stuck" with the boxes ever again. The boxes can wait until SO gets back to help.
If I do decide to get "stuck" I remind myself that I am choosing to do it. And then I unpack (ha! see what I did there?) WHY I'm choosing to do it. Is it because *I* want a place to sleep that night? Is it because I have nothing better to do? Or am I being a martyr? Whatever it is, I take ownership of that decision.
The long and short of it is that every time I'm seething it's because I feel stuck in some way, and it's helpful for me to know that I did, in fact, have agency here. I could have gone out for pizza and a movie with friends. Instead I chose to unpack.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:49 AM on September 17, 2014 [12 favorites]
Best answer: the weekend of the move was pretty traumatic
Reading how you described the weekend, it doesn't sound traumatic. Less than ideal? Sure. I'd even go so far as "crappy"; I'd be annoyed to be stuck packing her boxes while she went out to eat, too. But traumatic? Not even my drama-prone brother would describe the weekend you had that harshly. In all honesty, it does not sound so much like the weekend went badly so much as it sounds like the weekend didn't go the way you wanted it to go. You wanted her to deal with her parents the same confrontational, let's-throw-down-right-now way that you dealt with your parents. And she didn't. That, by my reading of your post, was the worst thing about this weekend. They still met you. She did tell them they had to stop excluding you. And she still got moved.
So yes, I think you're blowing this all out of proportion and (possibly) sabotaging your relationship. Think about this from her perspective: for her, this weekend was two incredibly stressful events at once. Were you a source of support, or a source of additional pressure and stress? I think you were probably a big source of support, moving-wise, but in terms of her dealing with her parents, it sounds like you did nothing but pile on the added pressure.
I think you need to remind yourself that her parents are not your parents. She's been dealing with her parents her whole life; out of the two of you, she's gonna be the expert at handling them, much as you will always be with yours. Not all parents respond to confrontation the same way. Not all parents who visit their children let the child do the planning: some make their own plans and expect the child to work around them. Not all parents are equally flexible about changing their plans. Not all parents come to decisions at the same speed. I don't see anything in your post that suggests to me that she didn't do the very best she could possibly do, in dealing with her parents; only suggestions that she didn't deal with her parents the way you wanted her to, or the way you dealt with yours. And that's a little unfair.
But honestly? You (hopefully) don't have to move again for a good while. You probably won't have to deal with her parents again for a bit. I think your best bet is to chalk it up to a crappy, stressful weekend and try to move on. If eventually you come to detect a pattern in her behavior (and maybe you already are, and it just didn't show up in my reading of your post) - that she can never stand up to her parents, or that she always leaves you being responsible (packing boxes) while she goes out and socializes - then those are issues you should deal with. But one crap weekend is just one crap weekend.
posted by mstokes650 at 10:05 AM on September 17, 2014 [17 favorites]
Reading how you described the weekend, it doesn't sound traumatic. Less than ideal? Sure. I'd even go so far as "crappy"; I'd be annoyed to be stuck packing her boxes while she went out to eat, too. But traumatic? Not even my drama-prone brother would describe the weekend you had that harshly. In all honesty, it does not sound so much like the weekend went badly so much as it sounds like the weekend didn't go the way you wanted it to go. You wanted her to deal with her parents the same confrontational, let's-throw-down-right-now way that you dealt with your parents. And she didn't. That, by my reading of your post, was the worst thing about this weekend. They still met you. She did tell them they had to stop excluding you. And she still got moved.
So yes, I think you're blowing this all out of proportion and (possibly) sabotaging your relationship. Think about this from her perspective: for her, this weekend was two incredibly stressful events at once. Were you a source of support, or a source of additional pressure and stress? I think you were probably a big source of support, moving-wise, but in terms of her dealing with her parents, it sounds like you did nothing but pile on the added pressure.
I think you need to remind yourself that her parents are not your parents. She's been dealing with her parents her whole life; out of the two of you, she's gonna be the expert at handling them, much as you will always be with yours. Not all parents respond to confrontation the same way. Not all parents who visit their children let the child do the planning: some make their own plans and expect the child to work around them. Not all parents are equally flexible about changing their plans. Not all parents come to decisions at the same speed. I don't see anything in your post that suggests to me that she didn't do the very best she could possibly do, in dealing with her parents; only suggestions that she didn't deal with her parents the way you wanted her to, or the way you dealt with yours. And that's a little unfair.
But honestly? You (hopefully) don't have to move again for a good while. You probably won't have to deal with her parents again for a bit. I think your best bet is to chalk it up to a crappy, stressful weekend and try to move on. If eventually you come to detect a pattern in her behavior (and maybe you already are, and it just didn't show up in my reading of your post) - that she can never stand up to her parents, or that she always leaves you being responsible (packing boxes) while she goes out and socializes - then those are issues you should deal with. But one crap weekend is just one crap weekend.
posted by mstokes650 at 10:05 AM on September 17, 2014 [17 favorites]
To contribute a totally different perspective here, the first thing that crossed my mind is that you sound really controlling. I don't see how your girlfriend really did anything wrong, or why you feel like you need to be there every time she hangs out with her parents.
I mean, if my partner insisted on being included in every single thing that I did with my parents, I would find that very strange and objectionable. My parents and my fiancé get along brilliantly, but they are *my* parents and I have a primary relationship with them that is not mediated by my relationship with my partner.
I understand that your situation might be considered different than mine because I am in heteronormative relationship and you are in a queer relationship. But, without diminishing the crucial need to recognize difference, I would like to suggest that the question of acceptance arises every time anyone introduces a new partner to their parents. Maybe you should spend a little time considering (alone and with your gf) how much of this has to do with potential homophobia or lack of support from your girlfriend, and how much might simply have to do with your significant other preferring to spend time with her parents without you there - just as I do often times with my parents, although I love my partner very much (and, as I said, he is loved by them).
posted by artemisia at 10:05 AM on September 17, 2014 [16 favorites]
I mean, if my partner insisted on being included in every single thing that I did with my parents, I would find that very strange and objectionable. My parents and my fiancé get along brilliantly, but they are *my* parents and I have a primary relationship with them that is not mediated by my relationship with my partner.
I understand that your situation might be considered different than mine because I am in heteronormative relationship and you are in a queer relationship. But, without diminishing the crucial need to recognize difference, I would like to suggest that the question of acceptance arises every time anyone introduces a new partner to their parents. Maybe you should spend a little time considering (alone and with your gf) how much of this has to do with potential homophobia or lack of support from your girlfriend, and how much might simply have to do with your significant other preferring to spend time with her parents without you there - just as I do often times with my parents, although I love my partner very much (and, as I said, he is loved by them).
posted by artemisia at 10:05 AM on September 17, 2014 [16 favorites]
I felt hurt and resentful that I put everything on the line with my parents, but she seemed to drag her feet with hers ... I can't stop thinking that I would never have treated her the way she treated me that weekend, vis a vis my family. To me, her willingness to leave me at her apartment among her boxes while she entertained her family at events from which I was explicitly excluded -- the same weekend we're moving in together -- felt like a monumental betrayal.
It sounds like your anger comes from the fact that you're hurt because your partner hadn't properly introduced you to her parents. You felt excluded, left out.
I would question the legitimacy of these feelings, to be honest.
I have been in the position of your partner before, where I really dragged my feet on having a partner meet my parents, because it would have been incredibly stressful, possibly hurtful to my partner, and overall a negative experience. In turn, my partners were hurt and offended and interpreted it as a hesitation on my part. They thought: "If you don't want me to meet your parents, then that must mean that you aren't really committed to me", etc. And I had to tell them continually that "the fact that you've met my closest friends and my sibling means more to me than the fact that you might meet my parents."
For you, it sounds like you've worked things out with your parents somewhat, and your parents may now be a source of stability, openness, welcoming. And to you, introducing a partner to your parents is a kind of moment of intimacy / trust, where you're really bringing someone closer into your life.
For her, this might not be the case; it isn't the case for me. It sounds like she might have expressed this:
she felt hurt by my anger, upset that I didn't understand her relationship with her folks (she's not as close to them as I am to mine) and angered by my sarcasm and tone.
If you're hurt by the fact that you feel excluded and not welcomed, then might be because you're misinterpreting her gestures. And in that case, your hurt emotions are your fault, because you're seeing her relationship with her parents as if it were akin to your relationship with your parents.
I can't stop thinking that I would never have treated her the way she treated me that weekend, vis a vis my family.
Of course you wouldn't - every family is different! You're essentially asking: "I would want you to introduce me to your parents, the same way that I introduced you to my parents." But all families are different. If your partner was adopted as a child, you wouldn't be upset because you didn't see her biological parents, right? You would say, "it's more important that I meet the family that you chose than some idea of 'parents' that I have defined for you."
So - you're hung up on the fact that you feel excluded because you wouldn't exclude her, based on your idea of what parents are, based on your relationship with your parents. Trust her actions, and don't apply your own view of what parents are to her family. After all, she did move in with you! She introduced you to her parents! She's trying to work things out.
posted by suedehead at 10:18 AM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
It sounds like your anger comes from the fact that you're hurt because your partner hadn't properly introduced you to her parents. You felt excluded, left out.
I would question the legitimacy of these feelings, to be honest.
I have been in the position of your partner before, where I really dragged my feet on having a partner meet my parents, because it would have been incredibly stressful, possibly hurtful to my partner, and overall a negative experience. In turn, my partners were hurt and offended and interpreted it as a hesitation on my part. They thought: "If you don't want me to meet your parents, then that must mean that you aren't really committed to me", etc. And I had to tell them continually that "the fact that you've met my closest friends and my sibling means more to me than the fact that you might meet my parents."
For you, it sounds like you've worked things out with your parents somewhat, and your parents may now be a source of stability, openness, welcoming. And to you, introducing a partner to your parents is a kind of moment of intimacy / trust, where you're really bringing someone closer into your life.
For her, this might not be the case; it isn't the case for me. It sounds like she might have expressed this:
she felt hurt by my anger, upset that I didn't understand her relationship with her folks (she's not as close to them as I am to mine) and angered by my sarcasm and tone.
If you're hurt by the fact that you feel excluded and not welcomed, then might be because you're misinterpreting her gestures. And in that case, your hurt emotions are your fault, because you're seeing her relationship with her parents as if it were akin to your relationship with your parents.
I can't stop thinking that I would never have treated her the way she treated me that weekend, vis a vis my family.
Of course you wouldn't - every family is different! You're essentially asking: "I would want you to introduce me to your parents, the same way that I introduced you to my parents." But all families are different. If your partner was adopted as a child, you wouldn't be upset because you didn't see her biological parents, right? You would say, "it's more important that I meet the family that you chose than some idea of 'parents' that I have defined for you."
So - you're hung up on the fact that you feel excluded because you wouldn't exclude her, based on your idea of what parents are, based on your relationship with your parents. Trust her actions, and don't apply your own view of what parents are to her family. After all, she did move in with you! She introduced you to her parents! She's trying to work things out.
posted by suedehead at 10:18 AM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: To clarify: I did not want to attend every event. But I didn't want to be randomly excluded either. If she had planned things in advance, I could have known when/how she wanted me be included, and when she wanted one on one time with the folks. Instead, she procrastinated, planned nothing, allowed her parents to make reservations that didn't include me.. And I felt blindsided. I had set aside the entire weekend to help with the move. Logistically it wasn't easy for me to get to my place on my own or make other plans once I realized how the weekend was unfolding. Given the distance, my leaving mid weekend would have also meant abandoning her in the middle of the move. In the end, during the second big fight after she returned from the second dinner without me, I insisted that she take me home as I felt my boundaries had been crossed. The move was 99% complete at that point and she could finish the rest herself. That's what happened, but it was ugly.
It's not like I packed for her while she partied with her parents. We worked together during the day, then she'd leave me with the boxes. I had no idea that this is what I was signing up for and it hurt like hell.
Thank you for these responses. They're helping. I want to see whatever it is I'm not seeing and be more charitable and compassionate with her and my own heart, too.
posted by Gray Skies at 10:28 AM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's not like I packed for her while she partied with her parents. We worked together during the day, then she'd leave me with the boxes. I had no idea that this is what I was signing up for and it hurt like hell.
Thank you for these responses. They're helping. I want to see whatever it is I'm not seeing and be more charitable and compassionate with her and my own heart, too.
posted by Gray Skies at 10:28 AM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Instead, she procrastinated, planned nothing, allowed her parents to make reservations that didn't include me.. And I felt blindsided.
Read through, again, the replies up above and see if you can reconsider why she might have done this. Is she the type of person who normally procrastinates, fails to plan and allows other to make decisions for her? If not, can you muster compassion for her fear, and can you muster forgiveness for her not dealing with this weekend -- one weekend out of the rest of your lives -- the way you would have wanted her to?
Also, do you understand that her failure at this singular juncture with her parents is not a yardstick by which you can measure her love for you?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:45 AM on September 17, 2014 [9 favorites]
Read through, again, the replies up above and see if you can reconsider why she might have done this. Is she the type of person who normally procrastinates, fails to plan and allows other to make decisions for her? If not, can you muster compassion for her fear, and can you muster forgiveness for her not dealing with this weekend -- one weekend out of the rest of your lives -- the way you would have wanted her to?
Also, do you understand that her failure at this singular juncture with her parents is not a yardstick by which you can measure her love for you?
posted by DarlingBri at 10:45 AM on September 17, 2014 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Given the distance, my leaving mid weekend would have also meant abandoning her in the middle of the move.
This framing is making this conflict harder for you than it needs to be. Unless she was going to be eaten by sharks if her boxes weren't unpacked at the end of the weekend or something, you wouldn't have "abandoned" her by almost any definition - that's way too heavy and permanent of a word for taking off to get some space halfway through a weekend.
By framing things around super-heavy, permanent, binary concepts like abandonment, you're implicitly escalating this conflict. I noticed you mentioned that you have an avoidant-fearful attachment style, and that's probably influencing your reactions as I'm sure you're aware. But while it's important for your girlfriend to understand you and try to work with you on those issues, it's also important for you to work on developing a more healthy attachment style in this relationship. One part of that is not blowing smaller issues out of proportion until they become bigger issues. It sounds like you had some pretty major hiccups with the move and meeting her parents, but they were just hiccups as long as you both continue to work on the relationship - the next meeting with her parents will be easier, and so will the next move. You made progress. It wasn't perfect, but you made progress.
Framing everything around abandonment and "are we doomed?" questions, whether it's just offhand phrasing or not, is only going to escalate the stakes - you need to find a way to de-escalate instead if you want to work on this relationship. For example, if you had left halfway through the weekend, instead of framing it as abandoning her, you could have framed it as giving her some space and time to deal with her family since it seemed like she needed that. I get that you had made plans to set aside the weekend, but sometimes things happen and it's important to be flexible and forgiving, especially around chaotic events like moving and highly-charged parental interactions. If your girlfriend not being a planner-type is a dealbreaker, that's fine - but don't ascribe it to her lack of feelings for you, ascribe it to her actual personality. Keep in mind that this had to be one of the most stressful weekends ever for her, too - even if she is usually a planner type, that stuff can easily fall by the wayside when she gets overwhelmed with stress (that's how I am, anyway).
posted by dialetheia at 10:46 AM on September 17, 2014 [19 favorites]
This framing is making this conflict harder for you than it needs to be. Unless she was going to be eaten by sharks if her boxes weren't unpacked at the end of the weekend or something, you wouldn't have "abandoned" her by almost any definition - that's way too heavy and permanent of a word for taking off to get some space halfway through a weekend.
By framing things around super-heavy, permanent, binary concepts like abandonment, you're implicitly escalating this conflict. I noticed you mentioned that you have an avoidant-fearful attachment style, and that's probably influencing your reactions as I'm sure you're aware. But while it's important for your girlfriend to understand you and try to work with you on those issues, it's also important for you to work on developing a more healthy attachment style in this relationship. One part of that is not blowing smaller issues out of proportion until they become bigger issues. It sounds like you had some pretty major hiccups with the move and meeting her parents, but they were just hiccups as long as you both continue to work on the relationship - the next meeting with her parents will be easier, and so will the next move. You made progress. It wasn't perfect, but you made progress.
Framing everything around abandonment and "are we doomed?" questions, whether it's just offhand phrasing or not, is only going to escalate the stakes - you need to find a way to de-escalate instead if you want to work on this relationship. For example, if you had left halfway through the weekend, instead of framing it as abandoning her, you could have framed it as giving her some space and time to deal with her family since it seemed like she needed that. I get that you had made plans to set aside the weekend, but sometimes things happen and it's important to be flexible and forgiving, especially around chaotic events like moving and highly-charged parental interactions. If your girlfriend not being a planner-type is a dealbreaker, that's fine - but don't ascribe it to her lack of feelings for you, ascribe it to her actual personality. Keep in mind that this had to be one of the most stressful weekends ever for her, too - even if she is usually a planner type, that stuff can easily fall by the wayside when she gets overwhelmed with stress (that's how I am, anyway).
posted by dialetheia at 10:46 AM on September 17, 2014 [19 favorites]
Instead, she procrastinated, planned nothing, allowed her parents to make reservations that didn't include me.. And I felt blindsided.
The blindsided part... some of that is on you. It sounds like you knew she was procrastinating and making no plans? Obviously you would have preferred that she made firm plans with her parents and that you knew what those plans were beforehand, even if you weren't going to be included in the plans. But you knew that wasn't happening. You had no idea what the plan was going into the weekend. If you could have dialed back your expectations *before* the big stressful moving/visiting weekend, you could have saved yourself some upset.
You see her procrastination and lack of planning as a deliberate act of disrespect towards you and your shared relationship. But I think if you want to make this relationship work you have to be more generous in your interpretation of her actions. People flake out. People flake out A LOT around their parents.
posted by mskyle at 10:57 AM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
The blindsided part... some of that is on you. It sounds like you knew she was procrastinating and making no plans? Obviously you would have preferred that she made firm plans with her parents and that you knew what those plans were beforehand, even if you weren't going to be included in the plans. But you knew that wasn't happening. You had no idea what the plan was going into the weekend. If you could have dialed back your expectations *before* the big stressful moving/visiting weekend, you could have saved yourself some upset.
You see her procrastination and lack of planning as a deliberate act of disrespect towards you and your shared relationship. But I think if you want to make this relationship work you have to be more generous in your interpretation of her actions. People flake out. People flake out A LOT around their parents.
posted by mskyle at 10:57 AM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]
"Instead, she procrastinated, planned nothing, allowed her parents to make reservations that didn't include me.. And I felt blindsided."
How in the world was she supposed to plan around her family's unplanned trip? Did you offer suggestions?
She was literally blindsided - unexpected people appeared and she was under whatever pressure goes with that and pressure from you.
Sounds like this was a bad weekend for both of you and you expect her to make it up to you.
FWIW, if I had to deal with an unexpected weekend visit from my parents, I'd need the rest of the week to recover.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:02 AM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
How in the world was she supposed to plan around her family's unplanned trip? Did you offer suggestions?
She was literally blindsided - unexpected people appeared and she was under whatever pressure goes with that and pressure from you.
Sounds like this was a bad weekend for both of you and you expect her to make it up to you.
FWIW, if I had to deal with an unexpected weekend visit from my parents, I'd need the rest of the week to recover.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 11:02 AM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Don Pepino is a genius.
I am a woman with a boyfriend and oh boy did I recognize us in your question. There was no homophobia to deal with, but I was his first gf, and his parents were VERY possessive and weird about it (thus he was weird about it), and he couldn't handle or confront it. Were we doing anything wrong? Obviously not. Did he feel like a scared bad little boy? Why, yes. Moving in together was a real crisis point. (And what Don Pepino says about not being a Dan Savage-acolyte, substitute any number of advice columnists/self-help writers and it's true, I am way more addicted to that "being a stronger person" stuff than he is, I think of it as "being an adult" but part of it is losing touch with your sensitive, messy, original self, IMO).
One year later, we are very in love, he has gotten more clean and responsible and I have gotten less uptight (and more slobby) and we're quite happy. You can move on. She needs to give a bit, you need to give a bit, and you meet in the middle. Sometimes I look at him and remember what I was like before I got super Type A as a way of coping with stress and it's nice to still have that reminder in my life. (And yes, people like us are crack to people like him/her/them.) If you still love her and don't give in to contempt, it will work out.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:05 AM on September 17, 2014 [7 favorites]
I am a woman with a boyfriend and oh boy did I recognize us in your question. There was no homophobia to deal with, but I was his first gf, and his parents were VERY possessive and weird about it (thus he was weird about it), and he couldn't handle or confront it. Were we doing anything wrong? Obviously not. Did he feel like a scared bad little boy? Why, yes. Moving in together was a real crisis point. (And what Don Pepino says about not being a Dan Savage-acolyte, substitute any number of advice columnists/self-help writers and it's true, I am way more addicted to that "being a stronger person" stuff than he is, I think of it as "being an adult" but part of it is losing touch with your sensitive, messy, original self, IMO).
One year later, we are very in love, he has gotten more clean and responsible and I have gotten less uptight (and more slobby) and we're quite happy. You can move on. She needs to give a bit, you need to give a bit, and you meet in the middle. Sometimes I look at him and remember what I was like before I got super Type A as a way of coping with stress and it's nice to still have that reminder in my life. (And yes, people like us are crack to people like him/her/them.) If you still love her and don't give in to contempt, it will work out.
posted by stoneandstar at 11:05 AM on September 17, 2014 [7 favorites]
A couple of folks, including the OP, have mentioned that she apologized but continued to behave in X way.
As someone who's probably a lot more like the GF than the OP, I want to ask: does it possibly help to reframe her apologies as apologizing that things must be this way at this time? "I'm sorry the moving weekend has gone this way and not a better, calmer way." "I'm sorry that my parents are the way they are." She recognizes that it was hard on you, she recognizes that it sucks, but there's not really anything practical she can do about it. Things that have already happened cannot be un-happened.
When I tell my SO, "I'm sorry that I have to spend the weekend away at a family thing," it doesn't mean "I promise I'll never spend a weekend with my family again." And it ALSO doesn't mean "OK, I won't spend the weekend at the family thing, I'll stay here with you."
It means "I'm sorry my family is more of a pain in the ass than yours, I'll make it up to you next weekend."
Being with my SO has meant accepting that he will never be the kind of SO who goes to every little family thing. But he will go to the ones that really, truly matter (just as I would do for him). This was hard to accept at first,* and made me a little ambivalent--just as your GF says she is, and just as you're feeling. But in the end it was not a dealbreaker; these awkward weekends of family visits are just occasional blips in our otherwise very happy life together.
Can you be happy with her, even if parent visits are always a little awkward and not what you'd ideally want? Can you actually be okay with where she is in the coming-out-to-parents process, or do you fundamentally need to be with someone who's on the same page? It's okay if these things are actually dealbreakers for you, but understand that it's not about her treating you badly so much as it's about just being unfortunately incompatible.
*Oh, and also, it was completely terrifying at first for me to tell my family that SO wouldn't be coming to xyz event. It's still quite hard. Is your girlfriend very attached to making her parents proud and never disappointing them? Does her family have Rules about how relationships are integrated? All of that shit can be really challenging to work with.
posted by like_a_friend at 11:38 AM on September 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
As someone who's probably a lot more like the GF than the OP, I want to ask: does it possibly help to reframe her apologies as apologizing that things must be this way at this time? "I'm sorry the moving weekend has gone this way and not a better, calmer way." "I'm sorry that my parents are the way they are." She recognizes that it was hard on you, she recognizes that it sucks, but there's not really anything practical she can do about it. Things that have already happened cannot be un-happened.
When I tell my SO, "I'm sorry that I have to spend the weekend away at a family thing," it doesn't mean "I promise I'll never spend a weekend with my family again." And it ALSO doesn't mean "OK, I won't spend the weekend at the family thing, I'll stay here with you."
It means "I'm sorry my family is more of a pain in the ass than yours, I'll make it up to you next weekend."
Being with my SO has meant accepting that he will never be the kind of SO who goes to every little family thing. But he will go to the ones that really, truly matter (just as I would do for him). This was hard to accept at first,* and made me a little ambivalent--just as your GF says she is, and just as you're feeling. But in the end it was not a dealbreaker; these awkward weekends of family visits are just occasional blips in our otherwise very happy life together.
Can you be happy with her, even if parent visits are always a little awkward and not what you'd ideally want? Can you actually be okay with where she is in the coming-out-to-parents process, or do you fundamentally need to be with someone who's on the same page? It's okay if these things are actually dealbreakers for you, but understand that it's not about her treating you badly so much as it's about just being unfortunately incompatible.
*Oh, and also, it was completely terrifying at first for me to tell my family that SO wouldn't be coming to xyz event. It's still quite hard. Is your girlfriend very attached to making her parents proud and never disappointing them? Does her family have Rules about how relationships are integrated? All of that shit can be really challenging to work with.
posted by like_a_friend at 11:38 AM on September 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Oh, also:
How do I deal with the sadness I feel over our moving in together going so poorly? I would have liked for this experience to have brought us closer together, emotionally -- instead, it's been a mess. I keep feeling like the very unromantic rockiness of our move-in-process is some kind of referendum on the relationship -- that this uncertainty means we're doomed. Can/should I reframe this?
You know how they say the first year of marriage is the hardest? This is why! Definitely do reframe this as a time where you both learned to truly live with another person as partners. (Not an easy task!) You'll have fond memories of this time later even if things aren't 100% perfect now. Trust me!
posted by stoneandstar at 1:31 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
How do I deal with the sadness I feel over our moving in together going so poorly? I would have liked for this experience to have brought us closer together, emotionally -- instead, it's been a mess. I keep feeling like the very unromantic rockiness of our move-in-process is some kind of referendum on the relationship -- that this uncertainty means we're doomed. Can/should I reframe this?
You know how they say the first year of marriage is the hardest? This is why! Definitely do reframe this as a time where you both learned to truly live with another person as partners. (Not an easy task!) You'll have fond memories of this time later even if things aren't 100% perfect now. Trust me!
posted by stoneandstar at 1:31 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Is this relationship doomed? I don't know, it would be if I was your girlfriend.
You can't make ultimatums like "I want you to cut off your family if they don't welcome me as a second daughter". I know that you already made that threat to your family yourself - but you and your family are not your girlfriend and her family, and really you need to let her deal with them instead of jumping in with both feet and trying to manipulate her into doing things that she don't think will fly with her parents. This sounds a lot like "if you really loved me you'd..." I really do understand that this is high stakes to you because you are sensitive to the possibility of homophobia, but if this was a heterosexual relationship people would be much less hesitant about telling you to back off (and even after 15years my husband does not get invited to every family occasion, and I don't get invited to everything of his - there is extended family time, and parent-child time, and both are important).
Also, I would never put my husband and mother together for 48hours - there would be fireworks. Far better that you all had a short pleasant evening together so they go home thinking well maybe they don't approve but at least you're a nice enough girl. That honestly might be the best your girlfriend could have hoped for under the circumstances.
It is worth examining whether this is something specific to being welcomed by her family, or whether you also insist on being included in all her activities with her friends. It is fine to do lots of stuff together, or even most stuff together, but if she wanted to see her friends on her own would that also be a referendum on the relationship or major act of betrayal? If not, good, you just need to really truly accept that she has a different relationship with her parents than you do with yours, and it is unrealistic to expect a partner will mirror you in every way, and own the fact that you have extra baggage because homophobia. If you WOULD feel slighted if she had a girls' night out with friends, or tennis club drinks, or whatever, and didn't want you tagging along, you really need to work on that, probably while single.
posted by tinkletown at 3:04 PM on September 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
You can't make ultimatums like "I want you to cut off your family if they don't welcome me as a second daughter". I know that you already made that threat to your family yourself - but you and your family are not your girlfriend and her family, and really you need to let her deal with them instead of jumping in with both feet and trying to manipulate her into doing things that she don't think will fly with her parents. This sounds a lot like "if you really loved me you'd..." I really do understand that this is high stakes to you because you are sensitive to the possibility of homophobia, but if this was a heterosexual relationship people would be much less hesitant about telling you to back off (and even after 15years my husband does not get invited to every family occasion, and I don't get invited to everything of his - there is extended family time, and parent-child time, and both are important).
Also, I would never put my husband and mother together for 48hours - there would be fireworks. Far better that you all had a short pleasant evening together so they go home thinking well maybe they don't approve but at least you're a nice enough girl. That honestly might be the best your girlfriend could have hoped for under the circumstances.
It is worth examining whether this is something specific to being welcomed by her family, or whether you also insist on being included in all her activities with her friends. It is fine to do lots of stuff together, or even most stuff together, but if she wanted to see her friends on her own would that also be a referendum on the relationship or major act of betrayal? If not, good, you just need to really truly accept that she has a different relationship with her parents than you do with yours, and it is unrealistic to expect a partner will mirror you in every way, and own the fact that you have extra baggage because homophobia. If you WOULD feel slighted if she had a girls' night out with friends, or tennis club drinks, or whatever, and didn't want you tagging along, you really need to work on that, probably while single.
posted by tinkletown at 3:04 PM on September 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
Can you be happy with her, even if parent visits are always a little awkward and not what you'd ideally want? Can you actually be okay with where she is in the coming-out-to-parents process, or do you fundamentally need to be with someone who's on the same page? It's okay if these things are actually dealbreakers for you, but understand that it's not about her treating you badly so much as it's about just being unfortunately incompatible.
This. You're angry with her for not being you.
posted by tinkletown at 3:09 PM on September 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
This. You're angry with her for not being you.
posted by tinkletown at 3:09 PM on September 17, 2014 [5 favorites]
Many couples have big problems regarding the parents of one partner or the other -- usually when the parents are difficult. Your girlfriend's parents seem to make her very anxious, and she hasn't learned yet how to deal with a visit from them while also treating you with respect. This is really common. It can go on for years... but you're not going to let that happen.
"Mistakes were made" by both of you. Talk with her in terms of how you felt while it was going on. I mean, focus on how you felt, not on how she was wrong in how she acted. Listen while she talks about how she felt.Tell her you know that the two of you can have a better experience in the future if you act as a team. Ask her to ally with you so her stress level doesn't get out of hand and so nobody's feelings get trampled. One or two meetings with a therapist could really help with the communication, since you're both learning.
posted by wryly at 3:19 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
"Mistakes were made" by both of you. Talk with her in terms of how you felt while it was going on. I mean, focus on how you felt, not on how she was wrong in how she acted. Listen while she talks about how she felt.Tell her you know that the two of you can have a better experience in the future if you act as a team. Ask her to ally with you so her stress level doesn't get out of hand and so nobody's feelings get trampled. One or two meetings with a therapist could really help with the communication, since you're both learning.
posted by wryly at 3:19 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
A lot of good answers above (of which I only read 2/3). I just want to say that it sounds like you're assuming "if she felt X [respected our relationship], she would do Y [insist and plan out how you would join them]." But just look at that and consideration all the other variables that should sit next to X. "If she respected our relationship, AND wanted us to have a relationship with her parents, AND was ready to confront them, AND..." Just because she didn't plan a weekend for you with them doesn't mean she doesn't respect your relationship. I can see how the weekend pushed all your buttons and was very painful, but I don't think your fears are necessarily true.
posted by salvia at 10:17 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 10:17 PM on September 17, 2014 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As I was thinking about this, two more things occurred to me:
1. I wonder if you have some control stuff going on - maybe you have trouble accepting that plans aren't always going to come together and decisions will be made on the fly, or you have trouble looking at all the options in a situation because you're so attached to the ones you can control (even if those are bad options)? I'm very control-y about anything that scares or stresses me, to the point where it's sometimes easier to get stuck at the apartment with the paint and the boxes because at least then I know exactly what's going on, I know how I'm reacting (angrily!) and I am only going to have familiar and predictable emotions and experiences.
I think that's a challenge of living with someone - you're letting chaos (chaos!!!!!) into your life, even if it's in the form of someone you know and like. And you have to let them make decisions too, and you have to modify your behavior even though your behavior is the best!! and most correct!!!
On that note, did you ever read any of Alison Bechdel's Dykes To Watch Out For comics? Split Level Dykes To Watch Out For has an extended story at the end about the whole gang moving houses and apartments all on the same day and all the stresses and relationship panic this brings up. When you say that you wanted to feel closer after the move and instead you feel all messed up, it makes me think of the moving day chaos in that story. It might be soothing to read.
2. I think "disrespected" is a tricky word to bring into a relationship - it carries such a lot of freight. Even though we nominally use it only to mean "taking the other person seriously and treating their needs as legitimate", I think it bears a lot of other associations with power structures and discipline and authority, as if there's a Naval Code of relationships or as if you're the principal of your apartment. I think it's a word that doesn't just legitimate but actually escalates, particularly because it sounds like what you want from your girlfriend isn't "respect" so much as care.
When I originally read this, I thought you'd moved in together months ago and were still fighting, but on a re-read it seems like this was much more recent. If it's more recent, can you just take a nice weekend together - go away if you can afford it or have a fancy dinner if not? It seems like you both could use some care almost more than you can use processing and words - it seems like an underlying issue here is that you're both feeling uncared-for, and maybe providing some mutual care would give you both a little breathing room.
posted by Frowner at 8:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
1. I wonder if you have some control stuff going on - maybe you have trouble accepting that plans aren't always going to come together and decisions will be made on the fly, or you have trouble looking at all the options in a situation because you're so attached to the ones you can control (even if those are bad options)? I'm very control-y about anything that scares or stresses me, to the point where it's sometimes easier to get stuck at the apartment with the paint and the boxes because at least then I know exactly what's going on, I know how I'm reacting (angrily!) and I am only going to have familiar and predictable emotions and experiences.
I think that's a challenge of living with someone - you're letting chaos (chaos!!!!!) into your life, even if it's in the form of someone you know and like. And you have to let them make decisions too, and you have to modify your behavior even though your behavior is the best!! and most correct!!!
On that note, did you ever read any of Alison Bechdel's Dykes To Watch Out For comics? Split Level Dykes To Watch Out For has an extended story at the end about the whole gang moving houses and apartments all on the same day and all the stresses and relationship panic this brings up. When you say that you wanted to feel closer after the move and instead you feel all messed up, it makes me think of the moving day chaos in that story. It might be soothing to read.
2. I think "disrespected" is a tricky word to bring into a relationship - it carries such a lot of freight. Even though we nominally use it only to mean "taking the other person seriously and treating their needs as legitimate", I think it bears a lot of other associations with power structures and discipline and authority, as if there's a Naval Code of relationships or as if you're the principal of your apartment. I think it's a word that doesn't just legitimate but actually escalates, particularly because it sounds like what you want from your girlfriend isn't "respect" so much as care.
When I originally read this, I thought you'd moved in together months ago and were still fighting, but on a re-read it seems like this was much more recent. If it's more recent, can you just take a nice weekend together - go away if you can afford it or have a fancy dinner if not? It seems like you both could use some care almost more than you can use processing and words - it seems like an underlying issue here is that you're both feeling uncared-for, and maybe providing some mutual care would give you both a little breathing room.
posted by Frowner at 8:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I just want to say that it sounds like you're assuming "if she felt X,... she would do Y...
OMG I totally catch myself making up stories about people's motivations. "He left his underpants on the bathroom floor again. WHEN DID HE STOP LOVING ME?!"
posted by small_ruminant at 11:34 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
OMG I totally catch myself making up stories about people's motivations. "He left his underpants on the bathroom floor again. WHEN DID HE STOP LOVING ME?!"
posted by small_ruminant at 11:34 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Just popping by to say the missus & I have been a lesbian couple for 20 years longer than y'all, and she often tells friends who are coping with moving stress that the only time we fight is during moves. That's not strictly true, but those ARE the only times we've contemplated breaking up (1 year in, and then again 10 years in). Moving makes people crazy. (As do parental visits.) Write it off, and chill.
We got past it by showing each other support with concrete actions, and by trusting those concrete actions as inherently meaningful. It's OK to interact less for a bit, as long as those interactions you do have are positive and trusted. Do rely on other sources of emotional support (friends, pets, pleasurable activities). That way you'll distribute the load, and not put too much strain on the relationship while it's knitting its ligaments back together, or something. Anyhow, that's what worked for us.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:33 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
We got past it by showing each other support with concrete actions, and by trusting those concrete actions as inherently meaningful. It's OK to interact less for a bit, as long as those interactions you do have are positive and trusted. Do rely on other sources of emotional support (friends, pets, pleasurable activities). That way you'll distribute the load, and not put too much strain on the relationship while it's knitting its ligaments back together, or something. Anyhow, that's what worked for us.
posted by feral_goldfish at 1:33 PM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you all for these thoughtful, generous and profoundly helpful perspectives. Letting it all sink in -- for now, I'm content with having de-escalated the crisis brewing in my mind and absorbing all of the other, less distressing interpretations and perspectives that I was missing out on. Very grateful.
posted by Gray Skies at 3:34 PM on September 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Gray Skies at 3:34 PM on September 19, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm glad that everyone's responses have been useful to you. I read your post a few days ago and I kept thinking about it.
I came back to say:
It's time to really really imagine how your partner feels. This involves really separating your feelings and projections from the situation and really listening to your partner, really trying to understand what it feels like to be her, and trying to understand what her needs are. This is the greatest gift you can give your partner, and yourself.
She is not in charge of or responsible for your needs and desires. You are. Some needs you have may actually be beyond what your partner can do for you, others she may be fulfilling without even knowing. Take inventory and make decisions about what you need to deal with on your own and what things she could probably help you with, then communicate with your partner.
Beware! Knowing what you want and asking for it in no way means your partner can, will or wants to do it - this is where the understanding your partner's feelings comes in handy!
Take care of your own baggage and be supportive of your partner as she works through hers!
I hope you feel better and that you are both able to understand each other more!
posted by Locochona at 9:51 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
I came back to say:
It's time to really really imagine how your partner feels. This involves really separating your feelings and projections from the situation and really listening to your partner, really trying to understand what it feels like to be her, and trying to understand what her needs are. This is the greatest gift you can give your partner, and yourself.
She is not in charge of or responsible for your needs and desires. You are. Some needs you have may actually be beyond what your partner can do for you, others she may be fulfilling without even knowing. Take inventory and make decisions about what you need to deal with on your own and what things she could probably help you with, then communicate with your partner.
Beware! Knowing what you want and asking for it in no way means your partner can, will or wants to do it - this is where the understanding your partner's feelings comes in handy!
Take care of your own baggage and be supportive of your partner as she works through hers!
I hope you feel better and that you are both able to understand each other more!
posted by Locochona at 9:51 AM on September 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
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Yes, but it would take work on both your parts. She needs to apologize sincerely and tell you what she'll be doing in the future to avoid a repeat of this situation. You then need to fully accept her apology and try to not dwell on this and put it behind you, and watch closely when future opportunities arise that give her a chance to honor her promise to you (or not). How she acts in the future should determine your next steps.
How do we handle living together while we're questioning the relationship?
I haven't been in exactly this situation, but I have lived with people I felt deeply unsure about. My suggestion is to get out of the house as much as possible. Go to the gym, on a hike, to dinner/drinks with friends, a movie - whatever. But you guys both need space right now. Small talk and chit chat are probably going to exacerbate the issue by making you feel disingenuous. Make lots of plans for the next few weeks - don't avoid her, but be less around than usual.
Am I just overreacting? Is there another way of interpreting all of this that would not feel quite so upsetting?
No and yes. I would be Very Displeased in your shoes as well, so I don't think your feelings here are unusual or unreasonable. But it might help to reframe her actions. First, some families are not big on making advance plans/arrangements, and/or on including SOs at all dinners/functions. (Obviously given her parents' homophobia, the situation is a little more complex than I'm making it, but bear with me.) Is it possible that her family just tends to do things differently than you/yours? Additionally, I suspect that she was reluctant to tell them they would be meeting you, and to hammer out official plans for that meeting, out of anxiety over how they would treat you/how the meeting would go. She did ultimately act insensitively, but I don't think her intention was to do that.
How do I deal with the sadness I feel over our moving in together going so poorly?
Unfortunately I think this is a "time heals all wounds" situation. Things suck now and you're bummed. But you won't always feel that way. Focus on other things in your life that make you happy, and try not to dwell on this single disappointment. (I know, I know - easier said than done.)
Good luck!
posted by schroedingersgirl at 8:35 AM on September 17, 2014 [3 favorites]