How to discuss possibly sexist behavior
September 10, 2014 8:14 PM Subscribe
Is there a way to have an open conversation with someone about behavior that may be discriminatory toward women (but could be explained in other ways too) without accusing them or putting them on the defensive?
I am part of the leadership of a small, volunteer-driven nonprofit organization. Several people in the group have complained to me that our president has a negative attitude toward their ideas, and is dismissive or even hostile when they bring up an idea. I have witnessed this too and I believe it's a pattern. Some people have said to me that they think this is a gender issue and he has a problem dealing with women. This is possible -- all the people who have complained are women, and I don't remember seeing this behavior directed at men. But it's also possible that it had to do with the ideas these people were presenting. On a personal level, it seems like he's cordial to everyone.
I think his negativity often has a valid concern behind it, and I'm going to talk to him about how he communicates in general to try to get him to express his concern in a constructive way. Is there any way to bring up the possible gender issue without making him feel attacked? It's such a loaded issue. I'd like him to consider it, but I don't want to label him as being sexist.
I am part of the leadership of a small, volunteer-driven nonprofit organization. Several people in the group have complained to me that our president has a negative attitude toward their ideas, and is dismissive or even hostile when they bring up an idea. I have witnessed this too and I believe it's a pattern. Some people have said to me that they think this is a gender issue and he has a problem dealing with women. This is possible -- all the people who have complained are women, and I don't remember seeing this behavior directed at men. But it's also possible that it had to do with the ideas these people were presenting. On a personal level, it seems like he's cordial to everyone.
I think his negativity often has a valid concern behind it, and I'm going to talk to him about how he communicates in general to try to get him to express his concern in a constructive way. Is there any way to bring up the possible gender issue without making him feel attacked? It's such a loaded issue. I'd like him to consider it, but I don't want to label him as being sexist.
"I've noticed you shot down Kate's idea at that meeting, but you thought Bob's idea was great. I thought both their ideas might have some merit, but of course your opinion is the one that really matters. I'm really interested in learning from your thought process on this. What was it exactly about Bob's idea that grabbed you? What was it about Kate's idea that wouldn't work, in your opinion?"
Don't bring up gender issues unless you're sure it's actually an issue. Does he REALLY only reject women's ideas and only accept men's ideas, or are the women just the ones complaining about it? I'm a feminist and a woman in what's very stereotypically a male role at work and I'm very, very used to encountering casual (and sometimes, but thankfully extremely rarely, not-so-casual) sexism in the workplace, but I'm also extremely wary of making even mental accusations when I might not have the whole picture.
posted by erst at 8:36 PM on September 10, 2014 [10 favorites]
Don't bring up gender issues unless you're sure it's actually an issue. Does he REALLY only reject women's ideas and only accept men's ideas, or are the women just the ones complaining about it? I'm a feminist and a woman in what's very stereotypically a male role at work and I'm very, very used to encountering casual (and sometimes, but thankfully extremely rarely, not-so-casual) sexism in the workplace, but I'm also extremely wary of making even mental accusations when I might not have the whole picture.
posted by erst at 8:36 PM on September 10, 2014 [10 favorites]
Why can't you simply state to him that "several people in the group have complained to me that [you have] a negative attitude toward their ideas, and [are] dismissive or even hostile when they bring up an idea"?
If you want to avoid labeling him as sexist, then the way to do that is not to bring sexism into the conversation.
It doesn't really matter why the president has a negative attitude - it's no better if he's just an asshole. The problem is his attitude, not sexism.
posted by saeculorum at 8:37 PM on September 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
If you want to avoid labeling him as sexist, then the way to do that is not to bring sexism into the conversation.
It doesn't really matter why the president has a negative attitude - it's no better if he's just an asshole. The problem is his attitude, not sexism.
posted by saeculorum at 8:37 PM on September 10, 2014 [9 favorites]
Is there a way for people's ideas to be evaluated in a less unilateral way? There's a reason that consensus and the committee/working group model has long been associated with social justice movements. If anyone can be heard, and there is a group of people who can collectively decide on the merit of a given idea, it's less about whether X or Y leader is a gatekeeper.
posted by Sara C. at 8:37 PM on September 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Sara C. at 8:37 PM on September 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Is it possible to role play this with him, to see if it is what he's saying or how he's saying it? That way one could target specific examples of being brusque, dismissive, inconsiderate, etc. with alternatives or find out if it's his demeanor or something more substantive. By being inquisitive about his choices and letting him talk about other people, one should be able to tell where he is coming from or if he's disingenuous and covering up a bias he's aware of, like disliking anyone particularly or in general. If he easily becomes defensive about certain subjects or people, that tells you quite a bit. It may be harder to deal with someone who is touchy about their communication issues, but it sounds like the first thing is to figure out if he's aware of his behavior and if he cares.
Whether he's rude when he thinks ideas are stupid vs ideas from these people are always stupid, openly disrespecting parts of the group is not helpful. Talking about how it effects the group may diffuse specific points, esp. if it's a personal problem.
posted by provoliminal at 8:54 PM on September 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Whether he's rude when he thinks ideas are stupid vs ideas from these people are always stupid, openly disrespecting parts of the group is not helpful. Talking about how it effects the group may diffuse specific points, esp. if it's a personal problem.
posted by provoliminal at 8:54 PM on September 10, 2014 [1 favorite]
Prior to ideas meetings, get the women to swap ideas with the men, and have the men raise the women's ideas and vice versa. See how interesting the results are, then you'll know exactly what's going on.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:52 PM on September 10, 2014 [13 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:52 PM on September 10, 2014 [13 favorites]
The classic way to handle this is through professionally administered 360 degree feedback instruments, from places like the Center for Creative Leadership. That creates a safe venue for anonymous feedback from colleagues and direct reports, and it puts him in a relationship with a trained professional who can help him work through the input he gets. They have seen sexism a billion times and know how to help.
360s are powerful because it's structured feedback from multiple people, not hearsay or third-party. It's hard to dismiss once you get it. Cons: The process is expensive and laborious. Probably your whole C team would need to go through it. And it's easiest for you to propose if you're in an HR role -- although really, a round of 360s every year or two is pretty standard organizational hygiene, so as a member of the senior team it would not be weird for you to bring up the idea.
Good luck.
posted by Susan PG at 10:27 PM on September 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
360s are powerful because it's structured feedback from multiple people, not hearsay or third-party. It's hard to dismiss once you get it. Cons: The process is expensive and laborious. Probably your whole C team would need to go through it. And it's easiest for you to propose if you're in an HR role -- although really, a round of 360s every year or two is pretty standard organizational hygiene, so as a member of the senior team it would not be weird for you to bring up the idea.
Good luck.
posted by Susan PG at 10:27 PM on September 10, 2014 [3 favorites]
You have two problems with your president based on your description:
-he doesn't take women seriously
-he has an inability to lead constructive/collaborative discussions
I have no idea how to deal with the sexist crap. That shit is so entrenched. People get defensive as hell over the slightest of implications.
However, you seem to imply the dismissiveness is a larger problem:
Are there leadership development resources to steer him towards? Do you think he has the knowledge/skills to be a good president? Sometimes the ones in over their heads are the ones that focus the most on shows of dominance.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 10:29 PM on September 10, 2014
-he doesn't take women seriously
-he has an inability to lead constructive/collaborative discussions
I have no idea how to deal with the sexist crap. That shit is so entrenched. People get defensive as hell over the slightest of implications.
However, you seem to imply the dismissiveness is a larger problem:
Are there leadership development resources to steer him towards? Do you think he has the knowledge/skills to be a good president? Sometimes the ones in over their heads are the ones that focus the most on shows of dominance.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 10:29 PM on September 10, 2014
This would be a bit cumbersome but it would help to reduce various sorts of bias (not just sexism): submit and vote anonymously on project ideas.
When you're looking for big ideas (annual meeting to discuss projects to pursue that year, for example), make sure that all ideas are presented anonymously and that they have to remain anonymous (no admitting to ownership).
Everyone prints their ideas on paper, one idea per piece of paper, and sticks them in a box from which ideas will be selected and examined. And if you have no ideas, you are still required to put a piece of paper in there that says "I have no ideas to suggest at the moment" so everyone is seen as contributing at least one idea. Tell people that bad writers should get help with writing their ideas so they get fair consideration.
After you pull all the ideas out of the box, randomly assign a letter to each anonymous idea and copy them so everyone gets a copy of every idea to take home and study. Give people time to consider carefully.
Come back and vote anonymously for your first, second, and third favorite idea for the group to pursue. Each first-place vote gets that idea 20 points, each second-place vote gets that idea 10 points, and each third-place vote gets that idea 5 points.
And that's the priority you give them when you start work on the latest round of projects. If idea A gets the highest vote total (the sum of all the 20s, 10s, and 5s it gets), it is the top priority project this year.
You could do all of this electronically, of course, but you would have to find or set up a convenient and simple way for people to submit electronic texts anonymously, and then a way to vote on those texts. In a lot of cases, paper might work best.
posted by pracowity at 11:54 PM on September 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
When you're looking for big ideas (annual meeting to discuss projects to pursue that year, for example), make sure that all ideas are presented anonymously and that they have to remain anonymous (no admitting to ownership).
Everyone prints their ideas on paper, one idea per piece of paper, and sticks them in a box from which ideas will be selected and examined. And if you have no ideas, you are still required to put a piece of paper in there that says "I have no ideas to suggest at the moment" so everyone is seen as contributing at least one idea. Tell people that bad writers should get help with writing their ideas so they get fair consideration.
After you pull all the ideas out of the box, randomly assign a letter to each anonymous idea and copy them so everyone gets a copy of every idea to take home and study. Give people time to consider carefully.
Come back and vote anonymously for your first, second, and third favorite idea for the group to pursue. Each first-place vote gets that idea 20 points, each second-place vote gets that idea 10 points, and each third-place vote gets that idea 5 points.
And that's the priority you give them when you start work on the latest round of projects. If idea A gets the highest vote total (the sum of all the 20s, 10s, and 5s it gets), it is the top priority project this year.
You could do all of this electronically, of course, but you would have to find or set up a convenient and simple way for people to submit electronic texts anonymously, and then a way to vote on those texts. In a lot of cases, paper might work best.
posted by pracowity at 11:54 PM on September 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
As you have acknowledged, it is possible that people are claiming gender issues when the real problem is that their contributions are in fact not very good and so the real problem is a lack of diplomacy.
My partner teaches dealing with difficult people type courses, often the issue is that managers respond best to specific types of communication styles and so, for example, being all fluffy, vague and verbose when the other party just wants the facts will always get a bad response.
Instead of the knee jerk accusations of sexism, which people here fall into all too often, try and figure out objectively what the difference is between suggestions which are well received and those which are not. It may be that the guy does not respond well to typical female communication styles and so tailoring your delivery will change the reaction. Not saying this is a good thing but "know your enemy" and all that.
posted by epo at 2:26 AM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
My partner teaches dealing with difficult people type courses, often the issue is that managers respond best to specific types of communication styles and so, for example, being all fluffy, vague and verbose when the other party just wants the facts will always get a bad response.
Instead of the knee jerk accusations of sexism, which people here fall into all too often, try and figure out objectively what the difference is between suggestions which are well received and those which are not. It may be that the guy does not respond well to typical female communication styles and so tailoring your delivery will change the reaction. Not saying this is a good thing but "know your enemy" and all that.
posted by epo at 2:26 AM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
So it's possible the problem is how he responds when he doesn't like an idea? Why not focus on his constructive criticism skills.
Also, in my experience, 360 reviews are the most poisonous thing you can introduce in a small group. Nothing is anonymous at that scale.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 5:49 AM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
Also, in my experience, 360 reviews are the most poisonous thing you can introduce in a small group. Nothing is anonymous at that scale.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 5:49 AM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
You may be able to bring up gender with him without making him defensive (maybe) by making it more about communication styles, and possibly framed in a slightly sexist way to appeal to his prejudices. "I think the female employees take your blunt style a little more harshly than you intend. I know it's sometimes extra work to make sure you're being kind to everyone, but I think that would really help motivate those employees especially."
This is assuming you're male. If you're female, you can probably play up the "hurt feelings" idea and back off the "Oh, those silly women, expecting us to cater to them, but whaddya gonna do?" boys club part of it.
posted by jaguar at 7:37 AM on September 11, 2014
This is assuming you're male. If you're female, you can probably play up the "hurt feelings" idea and back off the "Oh, those silly women, expecting us to cater to them, but whaddya gonna do?" boys club part of it.
posted by jaguar at 7:37 AM on September 11, 2014
And if he does change his behavior in a positive way, even if it's clumsy and obvious at first, make sure you keep giving him positive feedback about it.
posted by jaguar at 7:39 AM on September 11, 2014
posted by jaguar at 7:39 AM on September 11, 2014
As a woman whose ideas were constantly shot down by the male president of a small volunteer organization, while men's ideas were not, I asked him every time I was shot down "what is the problem with this idea?" and the problem was always lack of resources; we are struggling to do what we are currently doing. No matter how carefully I pointed out that my idea would pay for itself, or we could stop doing X and instead allocate the X resources to Y, I was shot down because changing the way we do things would create more work for him and the rest of the volunteers. However, when men suggested changing the way we did things, they were appointed to chair project teams to oversee the changes, and the president would not tolerate any badmouthing of the change process.
And that was my lightbulb moment. When I said "how about if we [idea]," he was hearing, "how about if you and the rest of the volunteers implement [idea]." But when a man said "how about if we [idea]," he was hearing, "how about if you appoint me to handle implementing [idea]." So, I asked the president, if his only objection was that he didn't want to handle implementation himself or put it onto other volunteers, if his default response could be, "are you volunteering to handle implementation?" If he could have said that with a sincere tone and not sneer when announcing that I'd be handling implementation or badmouth my efforts, I'd still be part of that organization.
To sum up, I don't think someone whose sexism is that plausibly deniable (as in, he appears cordial and the women's plans have flaws, as any human plan does) is going to be willing or able to make the necessary changes without years of effort. You might be able to succeed in not making him defensive, but how will you inspire him to undertake that level of effort? I think you should focus on either getting a woman to be president at the next election or changing the process in which ideas are proposed so that they go to a committee with some women on it.
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 10:48 AM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
And that was my lightbulb moment. When I said "how about if we [idea]," he was hearing, "how about if you and the rest of the volunteers implement [idea]." But when a man said "how about if we [idea]," he was hearing, "how about if you appoint me to handle implementing [idea]." So, I asked the president, if his only objection was that he didn't want to handle implementation himself or put it onto other volunteers, if his default response could be, "are you volunteering to handle implementation?" If he could have said that with a sincere tone and not sneer when announcing that I'd be handling implementation or badmouth my efforts, I'd still be part of that organization.
To sum up, I don't think someone whose sexism is that plausibly deniable (as in, he appears cordial and the women's plans have flaws, as any human plan does) is going to be willing or able to make the necessary changes without years of effort. You might be able to succeed in not making him defensive, but how will you inspire him to undertake that level of effort? I think you should focus on either getting a woman to be president at the next election or changing the process in which ideas are proposed so that they go to a committee with some women on it.
posted by Bentobox Humperdinck at 10:48 AM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
Prior to ideas meetings, get the women to swap ideas with the men, and have the men raise the women's ideas and vice versa. See how interesting the results are, then you'll know exactly what's going on.
that's a terrible idea unless you want everyone in the organisation in on this "let's check if President is really sexist!" plan.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:10 AM on September 11, 2014
that's a terrible idea unless you want everyone in the organisation in on this "let's check if President is really sexist!" plan.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 11:10 AM on September 11, 2014
Absolutely avoid doing anything that involves playing along with "Ladies, right? Whatddya gonna do?" attitudes. It may or may not make that particular conversation easier for you, but whatever your intentions, that kind of tactic further perpetuate the very prejudices you're trying to work against. PARTICULARLY if you're a man.
If you want to change his behavior without putting him on the defensive, it's best to conduct the conversation as if he is your ally against treating women poorly. People tend to rise to the occasion when you treat them like you're all on the same page and working together to solve a problem.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 11:36 AM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
If you want to change his behavior without putting him on the defensive, it's best to conduct the conversation as if he is your ally against treating women poorly. People tend to rise to the occasion when you treat them like you're all on the same page and working together to solve a problem.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 11:36 AM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
However, I think this needs to be addressed whether it's sexism or not. Can you bring up with him that he sometimes treats people dismissively and that is not appropriate? That's not appropriate even if he's doing it both sexes and even if the ideas being expressed are not great. There are diplomatic ways of dealing with bad ideas to not make people feel dismissed or patronized.
I realize that if there is sexism here, you may want to address that even apart from the dismissiveness, but it's also possible to address those attitudes whether their source is sexism or not.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:35 PM on September 10, 2014