Staying at Land of a Thousand Cleaning Products
November 27, 2013 8:04 AM Subscribe
My family spends most holidays at the home of a family member with untreated OCD. It’s already a huge challenge, and I’ve discovered it’s slightly worse than I’d thought. Will solve an immediate problem temporarily, but won’t see my therapist until after Thanksgiving. Please just help me to not go nuclear this week.
This family member, Carolyn, absolutely has some form of OCD. Everything is pristine at all times, the washing machine never stops running, dishes are in the sink for no more than five minutes. Anything other than a very small set of activities creates enough of a stir in the household that it’s not worth doing. No other company comes to visit when we're there, because it would be far too many people, and too much mess. No one has ever discussed what's actually going on, and never will. Carolyn’s spouse seems to have no problem with it at all. No way will Carolyn ever see someone, pursue treatment, etc. I truly do not think anyone in Carolyn’s daily life sees her habits as anything other than good character traits.
As time has gone on, it’s gotten worse. Carolyn now goes through the guest rooms when we’re up for the day, ostensibly to empty wastebaskets that have one Kleenex in them. (I hide my hygienic waste and take it with me because to do otherwise would create hassle and commentary.). She makes the beds if we don't do it immediately upon rising, and straightens things up, including moving luggage. She asks us endlessly for dirty laundry -- my spouse obliges. We’re headed there today and even though we will only be there for three days, I know Carolyn will ask for laundry. (She never asks me directly now, because for years, I’ve said no. I’m absolutely certain it drives her crazy.)
Now, I’ve learned that when my daughter does not provide dirty laundry for Carolyn, she will always just go through her luggage and find some. My daughter is stressed out about this, because this time she will have feminine hygiene stuff and trash with her for the first time. (For what it’s worth...with zero prompting from me, she’d also planned to take trash with her.) Also, well, she’s now a teenager, and doesn’t want someone going through her stuff...but what if she forgets to make a laundry offering, and Carolyn does it anyway?
We’ll deal with the immediate problem -- I’m in the midst of conferring with my spouse about what we might be able to do for our daughter besides have my spouse talk to Carolyn, which historically just creates drama and results in absolutely no change. But I am just SO fed up, especially now, and I need help getting through the next set of holidays. A mantra, a thought to keep in my head, ANYthing.
Other factors that might be useful to know: Despite the stress it likely causes them, Carolyn and her spouse always act like they want us there for weeks on end, and get *very* upset if they feel like we’re trying to avoid being there or cut down on time. What few other options we have for staying with other family members, we use.
This question really is about coping, more than logistics. How do I continue to be a houseguest of someone with untreated OCD without completely losing my mind? What could I say to my daughter about this whole phenomenon, when she is already tiptoeing around like the rest of us? It would be particularly helpful to hear from/about people who have OCD themselves, actually.
Thanks for your help.
This family member, Carolyn, absolutely has some form of OCD. Everything is pristine at all times, the washing machine never stops running, dishes are in the sink for no more than five minutes. Anything other than a very small set of activities creates enough of a stir in the household that it’s not worth doing. No other company comes to visit when we're there, because it would be far too many people, and too much mess. No one has ever discussed what's actually going on, and never will. Carolyn’s spouse seems to have no problem with it at all. No way will Carolyn ever see someone, pursue treatment, etc. I truly do not think anyone in Carolyn’s daily life sees her habits as anything other than good character traits.
As time has gone on, it’s gotten worse. Carolyn now goes through the guest rooms when we’re up for the day, ostensibly to empty wastebaskets that have one Kleenex in them. (I hide my hygienic waste and take it with me because to do otherwise would create hassle and commentary.). She makes the beds if we don't do it immediately upon rising, and straightens things up, including moving luggage. She asks us endlessly for dirty laundry -- my spouse obliges. We’re headed there today and even though we will only be there for three days, I know Carolyn will ask for laundry. (She never asks me directly now, because for years, I’ve said no. I’m absolutely certain it drives her crazy.)
Now, I’ve learned that when my daughter does not provide dirty laundry for Carolyn, she will always just go through her luggage and find some. My daughter is stressed out about this, because this time she will have feminine hygiene stuff and trash with her for the first time. (For what it’s worth...with zero prompting from me, she’d also planned to take trash with her.) Also, well, she’s now a teenager, and doesn’t want someone going through her stuff...but what if she forgets to make a laundry offering, and Carolyn does it anyway?
We’ll deal with the immediate problem -- I’m in the midst of conferring with my spouse about what we might be able to do for our daughter besides have my spouse talk to Carolyn, which historically just creates drama and results in absolutely no change. But I am just SO fed up, especially now, and I need help getting through the next set of holidays. A mantra, a thought to keep in my head, ANYthing.
Other factors that might be useful to know: Despite the stress it likely causes them, Carolyn and her spouse always act like they want us there for weeks on end, and get *very* upset if they feel like we’re trying to avoid being there or cut down on time. What few other options we have for staying with other family members, we use.
This question really is about coping, more than logistics. How do I continue to be a houseguest of someone with untreated OCD without completely losing my mind? What could I say to my daughter about this whole phenomenon, when she is already tiptoeing around like the rest of us? It would be particularly helpful to hear from/about people who have OCD themselves, actually.
Thanks for your help.
Does the luggage you're all using lock? That seems like the first thing you could do.
posted by not that girl at 8:12 AM on November 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by not that girl at 8:12 AM on November 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
If I were you I would book a room in a nearby hotel. If she feels bad, well, tough shit. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, the holidays do not have to be a horrible experience for everybody.
If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you're just going to have to use the "serenity now" method and get through it, and there's no magic way to do that. I personally would try to concentrate on the fact that OCD is a mental illness and that her behavior is out of her control, and is not intended to hurt or annoy you in any way. When someone's behavior is affecting you (digging through your luggage?!) it can be hard to remember that the behavior isn't really aimed at you. Her issues are her own problem, and your (justified!) annoyance is a very small issue indeed compared to what has got to be going on inside her own head.
Again, though - I would not stay in her home, period.
posted by something something at 8:13 AM on November 27, 2013 [8 favorites]
If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you're just going to have to use the "serenity now" method and get through it, and there's no magic way to do that. I personally would try to concentrate on the fact that OCD is a mental illness and that her behavior is out of her control, and is not intended to hurt or annoy you in any way. When someone's behavior is affecting you (digging through your luggage?!) it can be hard to remember that the behavior isn't really aimed at you. Her issues are her own problem, and your (justified!) annoyance is a very small issue indeed compared to what has got to be going on inside her own head.
Again, though - I would not stay in her home, period.
posted by something something at 8:13 AM on November 27, 2013 [8 favorites]
Your daughter could get a lock for her suitcase. If Carolyn asks, say she's a teenager and is very private about her stuff. (You could also offer to take her trash for her.)
For coping, you can think about how difficult her life must be if she feels this strongly about other people's dirty laundry, and you can suggest to your daughter the same thing; also there are a lot of YA books about mental illness in general, and probably some specifically about OCD (I can't think of any offhand).
posted by jeather at 8:14 AM on November 27, 2013
For coping, you can think about how difficult her life must be if she feels this strongly about other people's dirty laundry, and you can suggest to your daughter the same thing; also there are a lot of YA books about mental illness in general, and probably some specifically about OCD (I can't think of any offhand).
posted by jeather at 8:14 AM on November 27, 2013
Hotel is the best bet I think. You can tell a white lie about why, like, "We have Starwood points that are expiring at the end of the year!" or "SO has been having terrible diarrhea and he wants to make sure he has his own bathroom" (no one questions a diarrhea excuse, and she'll probably be relieved to keep the germs out of her house).
posted by telegraph at 8:18 AM on November 27, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 8:18 AM on November 27, 2013 [13 favorites]
About once a year I stay with relatives that have a regular maid come through. Even with multiple requests to not go through my things, one time she went through my closed zippered luggage, apparently grabbing things at random (almost all unworn clean clothing), washed it all in hot water with lots of perfume (I'm allergic to perfume) and then through a hot dryer. Including my brand new wool dress. And my expensive sequinned cotton shirt.
So now? I lock my luggage. After getting ready in the morning, seal everything into it, and lock. You can buy locks specifically for luggage.
This isn't going to help your relative, but it'll really ease things for your daughter. People going through my things without permission is MY ocd trigger. Uhg, the worst!!
posted by Dynex at 8:18 AM on November 27, 2013
So now? I lock my luggage. After getting ready in the morning, seal everything into it, and lock. You can buy locks specifically for luggage.
This isn't going to help your relative, but it'll really ease things for your daughter. People going through my things without permission is MY ocd trigger. Uhg, the worst!!
posted by Dynex at 8:18 AM on November 27, 2013
I may have a different sort of personality than you, but if it were me... I'd lock my suitcase, yes, but I would also just let her wash my clothing (assuming she washes things correctly). It sounds like she gets something out of doing it, even if that 'something' is just 'relief from her OCD,' so what is the harm in indulging her in this way?
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:22 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:22 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
How do I continue to be a houseguest of someone with untreated OCD without completely losing my mind?
I am not intending to be snarky when I say: by trying to dig out some compassion for this woman. If this is painful and tense and stressful for you for three days a year, imagine the torture she lives in the other 362 days. Living with an undiagnosed, untreated, worsening mental illness is a form of Hell. It's unpleasant for everyone around the sufferer, but it really is worse for that person. Also: you get to absent yourself from this; she doesn't.
And: yes, lock your luggage.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:27 AM on November 27, 2013 [7 favorites]
I am not intending to be snarky when I say: by trying to dig out some compassion for this woman. If this is painful and tense and stressful for you for three days a year, imagine the torture she lives in the other 362 days. Living with an undiagnosed, untreated, worsening mental illness is a form of Hell. It's unpleasant for everyone around the sufferer, but it really is worse for that person. Also: you get to absent yourself from this; she doesn't.
And: yes, lock your luggage.
posted by DarlingBri at 8:27 AM on November 27, 2013 [7 favorites]
As others have said, locking your suitcases seems like it would help.
Specifically for personal waste, consider taking small plastic (grocery) bags with you and just wrap the waste in them. If you double up on the bags, it should be fine to keep the waste in a designated compartment in the suitcase and just take it outside on your evening walk or some such.
Also maybe take one of those door knob "do not disturb / no cleaning required" tags hotels use with you. A visual sign might help Carolyn. I would also ask her to leave your room(s) alone for those 3 days.
posted by travelwithcats at 8:32 AM on November 27, 2013
Specifically for personal waste, consider taking small plastic (grocery) bags with you and just wrap the waste in them. If you double up on the bags, it should be fine to keep the waste in a designated compartment in the suitcase and just take it outside on your evening walk or some such.
Also maybe take one of those door knob "do not disturb / no cleaning required" tags hotels use with you. A visual sign might help Carolyn. I would also ask her to leave your room(s) alone for those 3 days.
posted by travelwithcats at 8:32 AM on November 27, 2013
"I truly do not think anyone in Carolyn’s daily life sees her habits as anything other than good character traits. ... Carolyn’s spouse seems to have no problem with it at all. ... No one has ever discussed what's actually going on, and never will."
She's on the extreme end of cleanly, and going through your stuff is way over the line. It's not clear if she's actually commented on your trash or if you just fear that she would; that too is rude.
But I can't help but feel bad for Carolyn: From her perspective, she may simply think that she works very hard to provide a pleasant environment for your visit, doing everything she possibly can to cook and clean so you will have time to visit and relax. And if everyone else she interacts with either tolerates or appreciates it, or pretends to, and you are pretending to, why should she think any different?
As a houseguest, it's not your place to complain that she runs the washing machine too much or doesn't relax long enough between the end of dinner and doing the dishes.
Other things might be amenable to discussion, perhaps through her spouse. You should explain to her that you appreciate the offer to do laundry, but that you'd prefer if she doesn't pester you if you don't offer. You can also request that she not go in your luggage (and/or bring a lock), but I think it's rude to tell a host not to clean a guestroom.
I certainly would dread the visit if I were in your place. But try to consider her perspective.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:33 AM on November 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
She's on the extreme end of cleanly, and going through your stuff is way over the line. It's not clear if she's actually commented on your trash or if you just fear that she would; that too is rude.
But I can't help but feel bad for Carolyn: From her perspective, she may simply think that she works very hard to provide a pleasant environment for your visit, doing everything she possibly can to cook and clean so you will have time to visit and relax. And if everyone else she interacts with either tolerates or appreciates it, or pretends to, and you are pretending to, why should she think any different?
As a houseguest, it's not your place to complain that she runs the washing machine too much or doesn't relax long enough between the end of dinner and doing the dishes.
Other things might be amenable to discussion, perhaps through her spouse. You should explain to her that you appreciate the offer to do laundry, but that you'd prefer if she doesn't pester you if you don't offer. You can also request that she not go in your luggage (and/or bring a lock), but I think it's rude to tell a host not to clean a guestroom.
I certainly would dread the visit if I were in your place. But try to consider her perspective.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:33 AM on November 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Please stay at a hotel. Thanksgiving is bad enough when spent with relatives to have to go through this weirdness, especially since it seems verboten to even comment on it. Don't put your daughter through this.
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:34 AM on November 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:34 AM on November 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
How do I continue to be a houseguest of someone with untreated OCD without completely losing my mind?
You don't. You get a hotel room.
When she acts pouty and unhappy that you're not staying at their house, you straight up say "I love you, and love spending the holidays with you. But your neurotic OCD cleaning is too much for us to deal with. Its intrusive, invasive (as far as going through our luggage WHICH IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE) and too much for us to deal with.
"You're not going to change, and I'm not going to demand it of you.
"But this is how it is. Love you."
If they get VERY upset, PUSH BACK.
"You're upset at ME? Too bad, your home is not a welcoming place for us to stay because of the circumstances you inflict on your guests. I resent the fuck out of you going through my luggage like you have some right to do so without my permission.
"You want houseguests, make your home a welcoming place for them where they feel welcome. And right now, this ain't it.
"Here is the news: your untreated OCD is causing your family to want to not spend time in your home. Deal with it or don't, but we're getting a hotel room."
Best of luck.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:59 AM on November 27, 2013 [17 favorites]
You don't. You get a hotel room.
When she acts pouty and unhappy that you're not staying at their house, you straight up say "I love you, and love spending the holidays with you. But your neurotic OCD cleaning is too much for us to deal with. Its intrusive, invasive (as far as going through our luggage WHICH IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE) and too much for us to deal with.
"You're not going to change, and I'm not going to demand it of you.
"But this is how it is. Love you."
If they get VERY upset, PUSH BACK.
"You're upset at ME? Too bad, your home is not a welcoming place for us to stay because of the circumstances you inflict on your guests. I resent the fuck out of you going through my luggage like you have some right to do so without my permission.
"You want houseguests, make your home a welcoming place for them where they feel welcome. And right now, this ain't it.
"Here is the news: your untreated OCD is causing your family to want to not spend time in your home. Deal with it or don't, but we're getting a hotel room."
Best of luck.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:59 AM on November 27, 2013 [17 favorites]
Another vote for hotel rather than putting up with carrying the used tampons of multiple family members in your luggage.
Reading your question, my thought process was as follows:
OK, just because someone's a neat freak doesn't mean they actually have OCD... OK, so she really likes to keep a clean house to the point where she will make offhand comments about "but it would make a mess", some people are just like that... It's nice that she likes to take out the trash in the guest room, that's actually really sweet of her on a certain mildly neurotic level... I think it's kind of presumptuous to assume that it annoys a neatnik when you don't have laundry for her to wash... PERIOD STUFF HIDDEN IN LUGGAGE??? Nope. Nope. They can't stay there. That's nuts.
Stay in a hotel and enjoy your nutty family member during meals and short family visits, like god intended.
posted by Sara C. at 9:01 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Reading your question, my thought process was as follows:
OK, just because someone's a neat freak doesn't mean they actually have OCD... OK, so she really likes to keep a clean house to the point where she will make offhand comments about "but it would make a mess", some people are just like that... It's nice that she likes to take out the trash in the guest room, that's actually really sweet of her on a certain mildly neurotic level... I think it's kind of presumptuous to assume that it annoys a neatnik when you don't have laundry for her to wash... PERIOD STUFF HIDDEN IN LUGGAGE??? Nope. Nope. They can't stay there. That's nuts.
Stay in a hotel and enjoy your nutty family member during meals and short family visits, like god intended.
posted by Sara C. at 9:01 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Generally speaking the answer to "How do I deal with generalized craziness over the holidays" is "Boundaries, strictly enforced" and I think this is usually the way to deal with a lot of emotional stuff. However at the point at which you are dealing with physical impositions that are making you or your family feel uncomfortable or unsafe, it's okay to move to the next step which is "Do not stay there." You know how this woman is. You know she's very unlikely to change. You are entering this situation being really stressed out and it's making your daughter stressed out. That's not okay. It seems (to my read) like you are anxious because you don't want to deal with the negative repercussions of staying elsewhere and the "tut tutting" you'll get from Carolyn and co. However, to my read that's just basically putting aside your own, valid emotions and discomfort because Carolyn "can't help herself" Which, hey I appreciate that you're understanding that this may be out of her conscious control, but that does not mean that it then has to be your whole family's job to lump it.
Stay elsewhere. Momma Bear it because of your daughter who should not have to feel victimized and scrutinized by someone invading her private space. Defer politely or impolitely. It's absolutely okay to say "Because of the way you behave towards us and our things, we are not comfortable staying in your home. We love you and want to see you but can not have you invading our luggage or our trash cans while we are guests in your home"
I quit a job once because the librarian's untreated OCD was making it impossible for me to do my job. I got a lot of flack about it from the enabling community she worked within and maybe that's how it should be. They chose her. I did not choose her (as your daughter did not choose Carolyn) and it's okay to say that you don't want to be part of an enabling cycle. Do yourselves a favor and stay elsewhere.
posted by jessamyn at 9:09 AM on November 27, 2013 [28 favorites]
Stay elsewhere. Momma Bear it because of your daughter who should not have to feel victimized and scrutinized by someone invading her private space. Defer politely or impolitely. It's absolutely okay to say "Because of the way you behave towards us and our things, we are not comfortable staying in your home. We love you and want to see you but can not have you invading our luggage or our trash cans while we are guests in your home"
I quit a job once because the librarian's untreated OCD was making it impossible for me to do my job. I got a lot of flack about it from the enabling community she worked within and maybe that's how it should be. They chose her. I did not choose her (as your daughter did not choose Carolyn) and it's okay to say that you don't want to be part of an enabling cycle. Do yourselves a favor and stay elsewhere.
posted by jessamyn at 9:09 AM on November 27, 2013 [28 favorites]
It is totally okay to get a hotel room. It would also show your daughter that you are sensitive to her needs and that you will protect her from experiences that will upset and disquiet her, and that it is okay to protect herself from those experiences.
A mantra I use generally is "She isn't doing it to make me crazy. She's doing it because she can't help it."
posted by Snarl Furillo at 9:10 AM on November 27, 2013 [12 favorites]
A mantra I use generally is "She isn't doing it to make me crazy. She's doing it because she can't help it."
posted by Snarl Furillo at 9:10 AM on November 27, 2013 [12 favorites]
Compassion for Carolyn, yes. But boundaries, too. This absolutely means at a minimum locking your luggage if you do stay with them, and also giving serious consideration to staying elsewhere. The key thing is that if/when Carolyn gets upset at either of these things, you remember that you can still have compassion for her while recognizing that you have no responsibility for her reactions or feelings.
This means staying calm, kind, and steady in the midst of whatever escalating speech/behavior she deploys at you in the face of locked suitcases or your decision to stay at a hotel. Think of yourself as cheerful teflon. Her anxieties and distress are certainly real, and you can acknowledge them and feel for her. But you do not have to take these feelings on yourself or let them dictate your own decisions, and you do not have to engage in any justification for your own choices.
Come up with a basic script explaining your decision and stick to it. Don't get drawn into answering any of her questions or demands that she'll deploy in order to try to get you to back down so that she can get her hands on your laundry. At the end of the day, Carolyn may have OCD, but she is also an adult and will have to cope with the fact that another adult made a choice that was not designed to accommodate her.
posted by scody at 9:13 AM on November 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
This means staying calm, kind, and steady in the midst of whatever escalating speech/behavior she deploys at you in the face of locked suitcases or your decision to stay at a hotel. Think of yourself as cheerful teflon. Her anxieties and distress are certainly real, and you can acknowledge them and feel for her. But you do not have to take these feelings on yourself or let them dictate your own decisions, and you do not have to engage in any justification for your own choices.
Come up with a basic script explaining your decision and stick to it. Don't get drawn into answering any of her questions or demands that she'll deploy in order to try to get you to back down so that she can get her hands on your laundry. At the end of the day, Carolyn may have OCD, but she is also an adult and will have to cope with the fact that another adult made a choice that was not designed to accommodate her.
posted by scody at 9:13 AM on November 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
-- Luggage lock = already in the cards. Not much else we can do this time around.posted by cortex (staff) at 9:19 AM on November 27, 2013
-- I have planned to cross the trash line for a while, but the biology hasn't lined up. I am strongly considering telling my daughter not to worry about it, and then seeing what happens.
-- I am a chronically messy person who manages to keep tidy when I stay with others. Thank you *so* much for assuring me that this is as off-kilter as I've always thought.
-- I have planned to cross the trash line for a while, but the biology hasn't lined up. I am strongly considering telling my daughter not to worry about it, and then seeing what happens.
Not sure exactly what you're saying by "see what happens," but please don't let your daughter be the guinea pig for boundaries or addressing this. You need to address it directly with Carolyn for your daughter but also for yourself. Don't blame it on "oh she's a teenager..." because she's not the one behaving badly. This needs to be about your boundaries for yourself and your family.
posted by headnsouth at 9:26 AM on November 27, 2013 [14 favorites]
Not sure exactly what you're saying by "see what happens," but please don't let your daughter be the guinea pig for boundaries or addressing this. You need to address it directly with Carolyn for your daughter but also for yourself. Don't blame it on "oh she's a teenager..." because she's not the one behaving badly. This needs to be about your boundaries for yourself and your family.
posted by headnsouth at 9:26 AM on November 27, 2013 [14 favorites]
"I am strongly considering telling my daughter not to worry about it, and then seeing what happens."
I wouldn't do this. You don't use your daughter as a testing rod for family crazy. It's your job to protect her, not cover her in honey and send her into the woods.
posted by Dynex at 9:28 AM on November 27, 2013 [20 favorites]
I wouldn't do this. You don't use your daughter as a testing rod for family crazy. It's your job to protect her, not cover her in honey and send her into the woods.
posted by Dynex at 9:28 AM on November 27, 2013 [20 favorites]
If you or your daughter leave used sanitary products in the garbage bin (where they belong), please just say they are yours and not hers no matter what. You can explain the luggage lock by her wanting privacy, but don't announce to family members when she has her period, and -- if she has her period -- offer to take charge of all the waste and claim it.
I think you should be doing this because it isn't your 13-14 year old daughter's fault that her parents choose to stay at a family member's house, and it isn't her choice that you have been hiding your garbage, and if you want to "cross the trash line" (which is, I think, a good idea), it's on you to do it, not her.
posted by jeather at 9:32 AM on November 27, 2013 [15 favorites]
I think you should be doing this because it isn't your 13-14 year old daughter's fault that her parents choose to stay at a family member's house, and it isn't her choice that you have been hiding your garbage, and if you want to "cross the trash line" (which is, I think, a good idea), it's on you to do it, not her.
posted by jeather at 9:32 AM on November 27, 2013 [15 favorites]
Wait--I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that you're going to be keeping used tampons in your luggage. I read it as your daughter will have a supply of tampons/pads in her luggage and for that reason is especially not wanting her luggage gone through. When they're used, why can't you put them in the bathroom trash and let this lady empty the trash to her heart's content? Then just put a lock on your luggage?
I'm coming from a place of having in-laws who, with the exception of the luggage, are just as bad--BOTH of them, not just one. I just sit back and stay out of the way and let them run their crazy house the way they see fit. It's only for a few days and hey, I don't have to do any cleaning! And it's better than staying in someone's gross, smelly house! It's so much easier to just get a little zen about it than have a big family confrontation over something that's so easily solved with a bit of strategizing. And then I come away with stories that always win "my in-laws are so weird" contests.
posted by HotToddy at 9:34 AM on November 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm coming from a place of having in-laws who, with the exception of the luggage, are just as bad--BOTH of them, not just one. I just sit back and stay out of the way and let them run their crazy house the way they see fit. It's only for a few days and hey, I don't have to do any cleaning! And it's better than staying in someone's gross, smelly house! It's so much easier to just get a little zen about it than have a big family confrontation over something that's so easily solved with a bit of strategizing. And then I come away with stories that always win "my in-laws are so weird" contests.
posted by HotToddy at 9:34 AM on November 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
Mod note: This another followup from the asker.
I realize I can't squeeze years of family dynamics into this question now, but please rest assured that I will do whatever it takes to keep the visit as sane as possible for my daughter -- and that in her own way, Carolyn will want that as well. I have absolutely no problem reminding her of that.posted by cortex (staff) at 9:35 AM on November 27, 2013
Sorry, I missed that. Hotel.
posted by HotToddy at 9:43 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by HotToddy at 9:43 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
It would also show your daughter that you are sensitive to her needs and that you will protect her from experiences that will upset and disquiet her, and that it is okay to protect herself from those experiences.
This is really important, and bears emphasizing. If at all possible, stay at a hotel.
posted by ambrosia at 10:27 AM on November 27, 2013 [7 favorites]
This is really important, and bears emphasizing. If at all possible, stay at a hotel.
posted by ambrosia at 10:27 AM on November 27, 2013 [7 favorites]
Please stay at a hotel. I know, it's nerve racking to say, "We're staying at a hotel." But we've done it with boundary-breaking relatives, and after the first time, it becomes the New Normal.
Here are some other (softer) scripts you can use, if you don't want to use the ones above:
"Thank you so much for your kind offer to stay at your home. We've been happy to stay with you in the past, but our family has realized we need more privacy to be comfortable while traveling."
"Thank you for offering your home. However, we'll be staying at a hotel, as the busy-ness of the holiday causes so much extra stress for everyone. Thank you for understanding."
"Thank you for offering to let us stay with you, that's very kind. You take great care of your family, and I need to do the same. We've found that our family travels better when we stay in a hotel."
Basically, a nice version of "It's not you, it's me." For us, my husband drives a lot of this (he's intensely private), and really doesn't mind if people thinks he's an odd introvert, so I"ll just say, "Husband needs privacy, but thank you for your kind offer." ** DO NOT ** put this on your daughter*, but if you can easily say that either you or your husband really need privacy, go with it, especially if that person can (if questioned or teased) shrug and say, "Yep. It is what it is." and deflect.
Really. Unless you're really financially strapped, you'll be amazed at How. Much. Stress. the hotel solution eliminates.
*Not that it seems like you would, but it's worth saying for anyone reading. Adults get to shoulder this sort of boundary work.
posted by RogueTech at 10:30 AM on November 27, 2013 [18 favorites]
Here are some other (softer) scripts you can use, if you don't want to use the ones above:
"Thank you so much for your kind offer to stay at your home. We've been happy to stay with you in the past, but our family has realized we need more privacy to be comfortable while traveling."
"Thank you for offering your home. However, we'll be staying at a hotel, as the busy-ness of the holiday causes so much extra stress for everyone. Thank you for understanding."
"Thank you for offering to let us stay with you, that's very kind. You take great care of your family, and I need to do the same. We've found that our family travels better when we stay in a hotel."
Basically, a nice version of "It's not you, it's me." For us, my husband drives a lot of this (he's intensely private), and really doesn't mind if people thinks he's an odd introvert, so I"ll just say, "Husband needs privacy, but thank you for your kind offer." ** DO NOT ** put this on your daughter*, but if you can easily say that either you or your husband really need privacy, go with it, especially if that person can (if questioned or teased) shrug and say, "Yep. It is what it is." and deflect.
Really. Unless you're really financially strapped, you'll be amazed at How. Much. Stress. the hotel solution eliminates.
*Not that it seems like you would, but it's worth saying for anyone reading. Adults get to shoulder this sort of boundary work.
posted by RogueTech at 10:30 AM on November 27, 2013 [18 favorites]
RogueTech's scripts are great -- exactly the kind of thing I was trying to think up earlier, but didn't have the way with words to express. They're all gracious, and they frame it so that your decision is about your needs, rather than a reaction/judgment of her.
posted by scody at 10:48 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by scody at 10:48 AM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I was married, we had the opposite problem. My in-laws house - and summerhouse - were disgusting. My husband agreed, btw. I think the reason was that they had been used to having maids, and then when they had to cut down expenses, they had no idea how to organize themselves.
We both enjoyed spending time with them for holidays, but when our baby arrived, we had enough, we didn't want her to sleep in that environment. So we started renting holiday homes near the in-laws houses when we visited. Once, we were even able to borrow the neighbors' house.
After the initial discussions, everyone was happy - it's really nice for all involved to be able to have breakfast when you want, and retire in the evenings. An apartment is cheaper and more relaxed than a hotel room, and when we found good ones, we were able to invite them over for a family meal, which they much appreciated.
posted by mumimor at 11:24 AM on November 27, 2013
We both enjoyed spending time with them for holidays, but when our baby arrived, we had enough, we didn't want her to sleep in that environment. So we started renting holiday homes near the in-laws houses when we visited. Once, we were even able to borrow the neighbors' house.
After the initial discussions, everyone was happy - it's really nice for all involved to be able to have breakfast when you want, and retire in the evenings. An apartment is cheaper and more relaxed than a hotel room, and when we found good ones, we were able to invite them over for a family meal, which they much appreciated.
posted by mumimor at 11:24 AM on November 27, 2013
I'm more of a Carolyn than a you, and I think you should stay elsewhere. I love my family, but having people staying with me is very stressful. I too cannot stand having dishes in the sink, or dirty clothes strewn around (or making room in my laundry schedule for other people to use my facilities). The things you do that you think are helping Carolyn are probably making it worse for her. Normally I'd want to help you help your family member, but in this instance it's really not your place or your business. Her home is the place that should make her happy and comfortable, and with your part of the family staying there and creating messes she probably feels stressed out and attempts to exert control by cleaning even more. Please stay somewhere else, for Carolyn's benefit, yours, and your daughter's.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 11:27 AM on November 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by masquesoporfavor at 11:27 AM on November 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Use your vehicle as a resource and keep stuff stored in the back seat and in the trunk.
We do this on holiday at a relative's house of whom we have the exact opposite problem; their place is an un-hygenic disaster.
posted by lstanley at 11:58 AM on November 27, 2013
We do this on holiday at a relative's house of whom we have the exact opposite problem; their place is an un-hygenic disaster.
posted by lstanley at 11:58 AM on November 27, 2013
Hi, I have OCD. I used to follow people around in my house (drove roommates insane) and clean up after them.
Now I live alone, and it's great, because I can clean things as much as I want and my SO (who does NOT live with me, but is here a lot) appreciates the clean house because he lives with two teenagers.
However, when I have people stay with me, I offer up house rules and I clean AFTER they leave. The house rules basically consist of: wash your beach laundry, please; dirty dishes in the dishwasher NOT the sink; you can clutter up the guest rooms and bathroom as much as you want and I won't intrude, but don't trash the living room/kitchen, please, because that is an area for everyone.
It has taken me years to become comfortable with this arrangement, but I'm sure years of my parents drilling into me to be The Perfect Accommodating Hostess has worked in my guests' favor.
FWIW, because of my cleanliness issues, I generally stay in a hotel when visiting family to lower MY stress levels of people not meeting my (admittedly unrealistic) ideals. So, put me in the column of "stay in a hotel, but don't be ugly about it." People with a modicum of class won't question you making that decision.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 12:36 PM on November 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
Now I live alone, and it's great, because I can clean things as much as I want and my SO (who does NOT live with me, but is here a lot) appreciates the clean house because he lives with two teenagers.
However, when I have people stay with me, I offer up house rules and I clean AFTER they leave. The house rules basically consist of: wash your beach laundry, please; dirty dishes in the dishwasher NOT the sink; you can clutter up the guest rooms and bathroom as much as you want and I won't intrude, but don't trash the living room/kitchen, please, because that is an area for everyone.
It has taken me years to become comfortable with this arrangement, but I'm sure years of my parents drilling into me to be The Perfect Accommodating Hostess has worked in my guests' favor.
FWIW, because of my cleanliness issues, I generally stay in a hotel when visiting family to lower MY stress levels of people not meeting my (admittedly unrealistic) ideals. So, put me in the column of "stay in a hotel, but don't be ugly about it." People with a modicum of class won't question you making that decision.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 12:36 PM on November 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
Locking luggage, absolutely. Carolyn, sweetheart, we'd prefer to take care of our own laundry not just No when she asks if you have any, and ask your husband to give the same answer. Carolyn has every right to live her life as she chooses, but that's just invasive.
Used tampons, pads, whatever - ask Carolyn how she'd like you to dispose of them.
You could stay at a hotel.
Carolyn would drive me a little batty, but it's her life, so try giving her a break with the judgement. Think of 10 great qualities she has, and remind yourself of them. Ask a friend to email you jokes every couple of hours. Remind yourself of masquesoporfavor's comment, and be compassionate and gracious. Enjoy a few days of being in a pristine house.
posted by theora55 at 1:43 PM on November 27, 2013
Used tampons, pads, whatever - ask Carolyn how she'd like you to dispose of them.
You could stay at a hotel.
Carolyn would drive me a little batty, but it's her life, so try giving her a break with the judgement. Think of 10 great qualities she has, and remind yourself of them. Ask a friend to email you jokes every couple of hours. Remind yourself of masquesoporfavor's comment, and be compassionate and gracious. Enjoy a few days of being in a pristine house.
posted by theora55 at 1:43 PM on November 27, 2013
Sounds like no matter what, somebody's going to be unhappy. Usually it's you. This year, stay at a hotel and it can be them. It shouldn't be your turn to be unhappy every time.
posted by windykites at 1:49 PM on November 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by windykites at 1:49 PM on November 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
"Carolyn, we are aware that you run a tight ship and appreciate being able to keep your home as neat and tidy as possible. We would like to do our best to accommodate that as much as we can, but we need to address one thing with you before we stay with you his year. It has come to our attention that if dirty laundry is not proffered up to you upon your request, you will go through luggage to find dirty laundry without asking. You may not, under any circumstances, do this anymore to our luggage. This is a major violation of our privacy and behavior that is extremely alienating. We love you, and want you to feel comfortable hosting us, but we need to know that you will commit to honoring our request. Is this possible?"
If she says no, or is otherwise argumentative, then tell her you appreciate all her past hospitality but you will not tolerate her boundary breaking and that you will join her for the holidays after staying at a hotel nearby.
You do not have to pussyfoot around this. Her actions are unacceptable. Focus on that only.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 3:15 PM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
If she says no, or is otherwise argumentative, then tell her you appreciate all her past hospitality but you will not tolerate her boundary breaking and that you will join her for the holidays after staying at a hotel nearby.
You do not have to pussyfoot around this. Her actions are unacceptable. Focus on that only.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 3:15 PM on November 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ok, just to be clear, have used tampons/pads actually caused hassle and comment or is that a projection? Because that informs a whole lot of your daughter's discomfort.
Laundry - I always ask, and always tell my guests they can use the machine and the dryer. It just seems sensible. I've got a small machine, I can just about do one load a day, so if they want in that's not a problem. If they don't, that's fine. The going through luggage is not okay, but I can see that with a child it might make more sense to Carolyn. It's absolutely okay to say "no, stop it" in that case.
I must admit, I sympathise with the 'no other guests' thing - I hate having large groups in my house and more than my little family and one other small family counts as a large group.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:31 PM on November 27, 2013
Laundry - I always ask, and always tell my guests they can use the machine and the dryer. It just seems sensible. I've got a small machine, I can just about do one load a day, so if they want in that's not a problem. If they don't, that's fine. The going through luggage is not okay, but I can see that with a child it might make more sense to Carolyn. It's absolutely okay to say "no, stop it" in that case.
I must admit, I sympathise with the 'no other guests' thing - I hate having large groups in my house and more than my little family and one other small family counts as a large group.
posted by geek anachronism at 3:31 PM on November 27, 2013
Stay at a hotel. Period. You don't have to lie. Just say that your family will be more comfortable staying at a hotel. Meet all objections with a firm, polite, "Thank you, but we'd feel more comfortable this way." You have every right to do this. It does not mean that you can't feel sympathy for a person with a mental illness but you don't have to compromise your family's privacy and hygiene no matter how close a relative she is. Practice being firm and polite then book yourself into a nearby hotel.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:27 PM on November 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:27 PM on November 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
You don't want your daughter to pick up the unspoken message that she's unclean when she has her period. Please stay in a hotel.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:36 PM on November 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:36 PM on November 28, 2013 [4 favorites]
And what about the message "swallow your own discomfort and ignore having your privacy violated because keeping the peace in the family is more important"? I think I would prioritize this differently than you have and go for the hotel. It's important for kids to know that their own needs matter.
Best of luck to you. It's a tough situation.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 11:27 PM on November 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
Best of luck to you. It's a tough situation.
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 11:27 PM on November 28, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by aetg at 8:12 AM on November 27, 2013 [37 favorites]