Help me help them to help themselves.
May 2, 2013 11:34 AM Subscribe
A barrage of bad news has come down the parental pike. I'm dealing fine but I think my parents--my mom, in particular--are in denial about their situation. Help me figure out the politest course of action to do something about it?
I've mentioned my family before.
They did move to a new one level house because of my dad's Parkinson's. But this past week has seen my dad newly diagnosed with prostate cancer as well; in fact, we're waiting on test results to see if it has metastasized. Then my mom tells me she may be losing her job (she's only the source of income, aside from disability my dad draws). She has a new one lined up but it won't be for months.
*deep breath*
I come from a familly who has been shit forever at saving. My mom turns 60 next week, has no money to retire on, they tend to spend more money than save it, and they have done nothing about their wills, despite my pleading for her to be prepared if anything at all happens. I am going to visit next week because of her birthday and she is telling me all this stuff she wants to do that costs her money I know she shouldn't spend (clothes shopping, spa outings, wine, dinners out). I don't want/need her to do anything of those. And yes, I have said that to her. But it doesn't get through.
For the record, I have a younger sister who is awesome and supportive when my mom's role as a caregiver wears her down. But she too is a chronic spender.
I want to figure out to get them in shape or encourage to get them in shape for the worst that may or may not come. I want them to take their financial situation seriously, and by God, I want them to at least talk to a lawyer about their wills.
How do I this and not come off as pushy? I am just aggravated and concerned.
I've mentioned my family before.
They did move to a new one level house because of my dad's Parkinson's. But this past week has seen my dad newly diagnosed with prostate cancer as well; in fact, we're waiting on test results to see if it has metastasized. Then my mom tells me she may be losing her job (she's only the source of income, aside from disability my dad draws). She has a new one lined up but it won't be for months.
*deep breath*
I come from a familly who has been shit forever at saving. My mom turns 60 next week, has no money to retire on, they tend to spend more money than save it, and they have done nothing about their wills, despite my pleading for her to be prepared if anything at all happens. I am going to visit next week because of her birthday and she is telling me all this stuff she wants to do that costs her money I know she shouldn't spend (clothes shopping, spa outings, wine, dinners out). I don't want/need her to do anything of those. And yes, I have said that to her. But it doesn't get through.
For the record, I have a younger sister who is awesome and supportive when my mom's role as a caregiver wears her down. But she too is a chronic spender.
I want to figure out to get them in shape or encourage to get them in shape for the worst that may or may not come. I want them to take their financial situation seriously, and by God, I want them to at least talk to a lawyer about their wills.
How do I this and not come off as pushy? I am just aggravated and concerned.
If they have no money, why the concern over wills? I don't see them changing stripes at this point in their lives. If I were you, I would start a "support mom and dad with the little things" fund of your own.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:42 AM on May 2, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:42 AM on May 2, 2013 [9 favorites]
I think the bigger issue than the will is the advance directive. Here is a site that will allow you to download the one that is appropriate to your state. Bring it to them, discuss it with them, fill it out for them, and have them sign it. Then give a copy to their doctor, and to your sister, and make one for yourself. Also give a copy to the person they appoint as attorney-in-fact if it's not you or your sister. Let them keep the original. They are SUPER easy to fill in. And they are essential.
Is your mom going to be eligible for unemployment? It's not much but people have lived on less. For the time being, anyway, that could be what she's considering.
posted by janey47 at 11:51 AM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is your mom going to be eligible for unemployment? It's not much but people have lived on less. For the time being, anyway, that could be what she's considering.
posted by janey47 at 11:51 AM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
Can you take over some nail stuff or the fixings for a nice dinner or find something cheap/free in her town to take her to? I would think that part of your mom wanting to take you out and spoil you is that she might need a break or want to connect with you and by bringing her a treat like that you could model more responsible financial habits plus making her feel a bit better.
I think it might be easier to have a serious and difficult talk if you plan for something nice as well because she must be super freaked out right now.
As to the conversation I think you need to take charge as much as possible "Mom, I know its hard to think about mortality if anything happens to dad you need a will because it will make dealing with it much easier and i'm sure he wouldn't want you running around doing more admin work when your grieving than necessary. Can I have the lawyers number so I can make you an appointment?" I would also try to be as matter of fact about the situation as possible and project an aura of "i know you're going to do the right thing even though its hard." Calm, efficiency can be catching if you act like you're certain its the best way of dealing with a difficult situation.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 11:53 AM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think it might be easier to have a serious and difficult talk if you plan for something nice as well because she must be super freaked out right now.
As to the conversation I think you need to take charge as much as possible "Mom, I know its hard to think about mortality if anything happens to dad you need a will because it will make dealing with it much easier and i'm sure he wouldn't want you running around doing more admin work when your grieving than necessary. Can I have the lawyers number so I can make you an appointment?" I would also try to be as matter of fact about the situation as possible and project an aura of "i know you're going to do the right thing even though its hard." Calm, efficiency can be catching if you act like you're certain its the best way of dealing with a difficult situation.
posted by SpaceWarp13 at 11:53 AM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
I want them to at least talk to a lawyer about their wills
In most states (maybe even all), if you don't have a will the surviving spouse inherits.
It sounds like they rent and don't have any savings.
It seems like you are thinking it will be difficult to bring up everything that you want to talk about with them. Why bring up this concern over wills that they can easily dismiss?
Another reason not to bring it up is that if they don't have wills, they may see this as a push to have someone other than (such as you) the surviving spouse inherit. Coming off as wanting their money (even if they have no savings, they may well see it in this light) will make it difficult to get them to listen to your other concerns.
posted by yohko at 12:00 PM on May 2, 2013
In most states (maybe even all), if you don't have a will the surviving spouse inherits.
It sounds like they rent and don't have any savings.
It seems like you are thinking it will be difficult to bring up everything that you want to talk about with them. Why bring up this concern over wills that they can easily dismiss?
Another reason not to bring it up is that if they don't have wills, they may see this as a push to have someone other than (such as you) the surviving spouse inherit. Coming off as wanting their money (even if they have no savings, they may well see it in this light) will make it difficult to get them to listen to your other concerns.
posted by yohko at 12:00 PM on May 2, 2013
In most states (maybe even all), if you don't have a will the surviving spouse inherits.
Dying intestate can nonetheless delay the process of said spouse inheriting, and just generally introduce chaos and delay into the process at a time when nobody feels like navigating a bunch of bureaucratic nonsense.
posted by like_a_friend at 12:06 PM on May 2, 2013 [5 favorites]
Dying intestate can nonetheless delay the process of said spouse inheriting, and just generally introduce chaos and delay into the process at a time when nobody feels like navigating a bunch of bureaucratic nonsense.
posted by like_a_friend at 12:06 PM on May 2, 2013 [5 favorites]
Other than wills, make sure that accounts are set up with an appropriate payable on death (POD) beneficiary.
posted by yohko at 12:10 PM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by yohko at 12:10 PM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Just popping in to say my concern over them having wills has to do with what happens to the remaining spouse. Believe me, I have no desire nor illusions about my "inheritance." I have never even considered it. I just want things to go smoothly for my family in case something terrible happens. I suspect my husband and I will be the ones dealing with anything tricky should the worst occur.
posted by Kitteh at 12:10 PM on May 2, 2013
posted by Kitteh at 12:10 PM on May 2, 2013
It's not just wills, it's all end-of-life directives, DNR, Living Wills, etc.
These documents are no big deal to do on-line and once they're done, that's it.
If I had a health crisis, that's the first duck I'd want to get lined up.
Also, another thing, get all the utilities in both names. When I worked at the phone company it was a huge-assed-deal to change the name on the account, we required a death certificate and it was obnoxious.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:24 PM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
These documents are no big deal to do on-line and once they're done, that's it.
If I had a health crisis, that's the first duck I'd want to get lined up.
Also, another thing, get all the utilities in both names. When I worked at the phone company it was a huge-assed-deal to change the name on the account, we required a death certificate and it was obnoxious.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:24 PM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
These are long-term behaviors probably rooted in fear (the impulse to spend when financial ruin appears inevitable does make a weird kind of sense). You're not going to convince them to change their behaviors now.
Can you draw up a will, living will, etc. and then print them out and have them sign them? I know that when I am overwhelmed, the first thing to suffer is paperwork. Finances, taxes, registrations, medical paperwork ugh. But if someone else takes over and says "here's the bottom line, this is what it means, choose option 'a' or 'b,' and sign on the dotted line" then I'm happy to sign it and grateful that it's done.
I can't imagine the burden you feel, I think pushy is really called for here though.
posted by headnsouth at 12:34 PM on May 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Can you draw up a will, living will, etc. and then print them out and have them sign them? I know that when I am overwhelmed, the first thing to suffer is paperwork. Finances, taxes, registrations, medical paperwork ugh. But if someone else takes over and says "here's the bottom line, this is what it means, choose option 'a' or 'b,' and sign on the dotted line" then I'm happy to sign it and grateful that it's done.
I can't imagine the burden you feel, I think pushy is really called for here though.
posted by headnsouth at 12:34 PM on May 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Before talking with your parents, talk with a lawyer in their state. In some states (Texas is one), the surviving spouse receives either 50% or 100% of the estate, depending on whether or not the children were from both or not. If the law dictates that the children receive a portion of the estate, there is a form you can fill out and submit to the court that basically gives your portion to the surviving spouse. All the children (but not step-children) submit the forms refusing their portion.
A lawyer can let you know if that exists in their state.
posted by Houstonian at 12:52 PM on May 2, 2013
A lawyer can let you know if that exists in their state.
posted by Houstonian at 12:52 PM on May 2, 2013
Take a breath. Nothing needs to be done today or even this week.You sound a little bit like you're in "Problem! Must fix now!" mode, which is one way we deal with hard things. Your parents denial is another. Neither is better than the other, in my opinion.
There is nothing about this new twist that makes these things DEFCON 1. If your parents don't have wills, it will be annoying, not catastrophic. Advance directives ARE very useful and maybe you could ask their MD to lean on them for it. Advance directives are state specific by the way, so make sure whichever you find is good in your state.
Personally, I'd print a couple copies of one out and tell that that it would make YOU feel a lot easier if they filled it out. (or, you could say that they don't need to and that you'll make sure the MDs pull the plug asap or whatever you think will freak them out. YMMV with the manipulation technique.) But again, this isn't something that has to happen in the next 7 days or even in the next month.
Talk over your situation and theirs with friends and ask for their experiences- see if they have suggestions. Talk to your local senior center. This is just information gathering. Do not make any decisions for them, or urge them towards any decisions. In the end, they're adults and will have to make their own decisions. Since they're old, you might be able to force your will on them, but it will likely destroy your relationship, so avoid that.
Recognize that though your urgency about all this seems the only rational, logical way to handle this, it's quite likely to be your heart's way of dealing with some Scary and Uncontrollable Shit.
My advice:
-Be extra kind to yourself
-Sit down, contemplate a butterfly or something, and just breathe. For a week.
- Remember you have choices, even when it feels like you don't (as do they, though you might not like what choice they choose)
posted by small_ruminant at 3:53 PM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
There is nothing about this new twist that makes these things DEFCON 1. If your parents don't have wills, it will be annoying, not catastrophic. Advance directives ARE very useful and maybe you could ask their MD to lean on them for it. Advance directives are state specific by the way, so make sure whichever you find is good in your state.
Personally, I'd print a couple copies of one out and tell that that it would make YOU feel a lot easier if they filled it out. (or, you could say that they don't need to and that you'll make sure the MDs pull the plug asap or whatever you think will freak them out. YMMV with the manipulation technique.) But again, this isn't something that has to happen in the next 7 days or even in the next month.
Talk over your situation and theirs with friends and ask for their experiences- see if they have suggestions. Talk to your local senior center. This is just information gathering. Do not make any decisions for them, or urge them towards any decisions. In the end, they're adults and will have to make their own decisions. Since they're old, you might be able to force your will on them, but it will likely destroy your relationship, so avoid that.
Recognize that though your urgency about all this seems the only rational, logical way to handle this, it's quite likely to be your heart's way of dealing with some Scary and Uncontrollable Shit.
My advice:
-Be extra kind to yourself
-Sit down, contemplate a butterfly or something, and just breathe. For a week.
- Remember you have choices, even when it feels like you don't (as do they, though you might not like what choice they choose)
posted by small_ruminant at 3:53 PM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
"Mom and Dad, I know you've been hit hard by the news of Dad's cancer and Mom's impending job loss. You don't seem as freaked out by any of this as I think you need to be. Mom, how are you going to live while you're between jobs? Dad, none of us is leaving this world alive, what else are you going to need to see to convince you that having your wills and Living Wills taken care of NOW is of the utmost importance? When I hear you talking about buying new clothes and doing expensive spa treatments, I can't help but worry that you're going to be eating cat food if you don't face facts. I love you, I want what's best for you, but I'm worried sick about you."
Perhaps you can come with a gift of Suze Orman's will package. You're there, they're there, you can bang that thing out in an afternoon.
I'm sorry you're going through this. It gives all of us pause, in that hey, I need to get my shit together!
Also, if your Dad is 62, he can start drawing Social Security (I think 62, may be 63 now, but worth looking into.)
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 11:41 AM on May 2, 2013 [2 favorites]