Lusters Anonymous?

August 18, 2005 12:24 PM

Has anyone been successful in intentionally ceasing to lust after the opposite sex?

For those of you that believe this is a perfectly OK thing to do, this is not a question for you.

I would really like to stop lusting after the opposite sex and reserve all of my sexual attention for my wife. Self-control is obviously a central issue. Has anyone been successful in controlling their lust? If so, what worked with you? What attitude did you adopt? What attitude did your spouse (if you have one) have to adopt to get through the transition?

posted by psychotic_venom to religion & philosophy (26 comments total)

I'm assuming the first question most people will ask you is- what do you mean by lust? Looking at women on the street? Having sexual fantasies about women other than your wife? "Lust" can be thought of so many different ways; you'll probably have to be more specific.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:27 PM on August 18, 2005 [1 favorite]

Successful? No. But I've been successful in keeping it to myself. How does it manifest in a way that is noticeable and bothersome to your wife? Because I sure don't point out particularly attractive butts on the street.

It's not like I don't see them, though.
posted by selfnoise at 12:30 PM on August 18, 2005

Definition of lust for the purpose of this discussion : entertaining a sexual thought or thoughts about a person other than your spouse.
posted by psychotic_venom at 12:33 PM on August 18, 2005

psychotic_venom: I think that's normal, healthy and fairly benign. If you lack the self-control to keep from acting on it, that's something you need to be concerned about. Have you discussed with your wife? Is it a concern to her? Maybe consider some form of counseling or perhaps discussing this with your wife and turning it into a fun thing for the two of you... Not sure it's possible, just some ideas.

Good luck.
posted by FlamingBore at 12:36 PM on August 18, 2005

Ironic that someone named psychotic_venom is trying to keep a pure mind. ;)

But I agree with FlamingBore -- it's normal and healthy. If you really really want to try to purge yourself of sexual thoughts, you can probably google up some articles on religious websites about avoiding masturbation.
posted by agropyron at 12:39 PM on August 18, 2005

Johnny Cash's approach was just to tell himself to behave:

I Walk The Line

I keep a close watch on this heart of mine
I keep my eyes wide open all the time
I keep the ends out for the tie that binds
Because you're mine, I walk the line

I find it very, very easy to be true
I find myself alone when each day is through
Yes, I'll admit that I'm a fool for you
Because you're mine, I walk the line

As sure as night is dark and day is light
I keep you on my mind both day and night
And happiness I've known proves that it's right
Because you're mine, I walk the line

You've got a way to keep me on your side
You give me cause for love that I can't hide
For you I know I'd even try to turn the tide
Because you're mine, I walk the line

I keep a close watch on this heart of mine
I keep my eyes wide open all the time
I keep the ends out for the tie that binds
Because you're mine, I walk the line
posted by COBRA! at 12:43 PM on August 18, 2005

Boy, that's a tough one, psychotic_venom. I'm assuming you have religious reasons for this goal. I don't think even the Roman Catholics have that one figured out after a couple of thousand years of demanding celibacy of their preists. I blame Paul for foisting that whole "lust is sinful" thing on us. Acting on the lust can be harmful. Feeling the lust is normal. Feeling guilt for something that is normal and not harmful is a waste of energy.

(On preview, what JC said.)
posted by Floydd at 12:45 PM on August 18, 2005

I think that you are trying to remove a prime human instinct and this isn't going to happen without surgical and/or pharmaceutical intervention.

My advice would to try and channel your lust into an improved relationship with your wife. I seriously doubt that that anyone does not fantasize about sex with other people at some point in a relationship -- look at it this way, if you use it to make it a better experience for your lover where is the harm? She is happy, you are happy and nobody is the wiser.

Do keep in mind that adults are not compelled to spit out every thought that comes into their minds. Not knowing either of you I wouldn't dream of advising you on how much to disclose, but if you do bring it up, don't be surprised to find out those moans of passion are directed at an imaginary Brad Pitt.
posted by cedar at 12:46 PM on August 18, 2005

And there's always "find a new wife," although I'm not serious about that advice. If I miss one, my wife will elbow me and say something like - hey, check her out, knowing that I enjoy looking at the menu, but will always come home for dinner.

However, my wife is taken. Sorry!
posted by luriete at 12:59 PM on August 18, 2005

I recommend looking into books on Chi Gung (Sexual and otherwise) and Tantric practices. Most of these are energetic exercises designed to increase your potency, longevity, etc. often in the context of satisfying a committed partner more satisfactorily. However, along with these kinds of breathing exercises and meditations, and yoga, you may find, like I did, a curious side-effect after several years of work: that relating to people on a sexual level no longer becomes the predominate mind state. "Lust" becomes controlled, and a higher level of bliss is possible for longer and longer periods of time - by existing and maintaining a clear and open spiritual awareness. It becomes more about spiritual ecstasy just being around people, and it's pretty good, as far as I've gotten anyway. Just a personal experience...I'm not sucked down into lustful musings and -desire- so much these days anymore but am just enjoying the moment and whatever is coming.
posted by wavejumper at 1:04 PM on August 18, 2005

Lust is irrational and excites the mind. Perhaps you should seek a way to practice calmness. This is why many turn to religion and prayer for the kind of mental discipline needed to immediately dismiss lustful thoughts. If you're religious, get more involved in your church. Take classes as a couple.

If not overtly religious, are you open to mediation of some sort? Deep breaths while focusing on your mind's-eye on your wife, yoga...any technique to quell the thrill of excitement and help you focus. Again, involve your wife and sometimes meditate together.

(If this doesn't float your boat, I don't knkow what to tell you other than what everyone else says...it's normal, try not to dwell on your thoughts and obviously don't act on them.)
posted by desuetude at 1:24 PM on August 18, 2005

My wife has played along on several occasions, asking who is "hot" and who isn't. But the thing she doesn't appreciate is when I get wound up when I'm working late and look through GIS searches of some supermodel or actress we saw on a movie--nude or not. Somehow I can see a difference between this and other issues, and I believe she is right in being upset. I've tried blocking certain websites, which has helped a great deal, but it doesn't change the fact that I can pull up the images in my mind at almost any time, and there's always another place to find images of scantiliy clad women on the internet. Basically, I see how much this hurts my wife and I'm trying to put myself mentally in a place that won't "wear off" in 2 months and we go through all this again.

Cue the "don't look at GIS" comments.
posted by psychotic_venom at 1:37 PM on August 18, 2005

There are twelve-step groups modeled after AA which offer advice on this particular issue: check out Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous, Sexual Compulsives anonymous, or Sex Addicts Anonymous. These groups seem to cater to a whole range of people who wish to change the unhealthy and uncontrolled aspects of sexual behavior and I am sure you would be welcome. If pornography is part of the problem check out no-porn.com which has active forums with people who are attempting to recover from compulsive Internet porn use, and who talk about many of the issues you mentioned in your question. All of the above groups have companion "-Anon" groups for significant others and family members.

Good luck and don't let the nay-sayers discourage you. It is possible to change and there are many successful stories of individuals who have been "sober" a long time after making a commitment, reaching out, and working the steps.
posted by PadrePuffin at 1:58 PM on August 18, 2005

Sex many times/week.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:17 PM on August 18, 2005

I think you can reduce this kind of thinking by retraining yourself. Look into cognitive behavior therapy and the concept of disorted thinking and automatic thoughts. Aaron Beck is the father of this kind of therapy.

It may not be possible to become unattracted to other women, but I believe you can train yourself to not pursue those thoughts. It's the difference between noticing and lusting.

Good luck.
posted by kdern at 2:28 PM on August 18, 2005

Er, I don't know if Johnny Cash is the best role model here - "Walk the Line" lyrics or not. Given that he left his wife for June Carter and all...
posted by true at 3:01 PM on August 18, 2005

A culture that worships sex is not a culture that makes passing on lusting an easy thing to do. TV, magazines, websites, fashions, advertising, on and on. I wish you luck - but you're swimming against the tide. As much as we all deplore society declining into sexualizing everything, we all still look and watch and buy and.....it's all very odd, isn't it?

-
posted by Independent Scholarship at 3:19 PM on August 18, 2005

I am not sure it is realistic to reduce lust as you define it--("entertaining a sexual thought or thoughts about a person other than your spouse")--that goal is not consistent with the way most of us are hard wired--unless the "lust" is significantly interfering with other life events--is it preoccupying and interferring with work, your interest or ability to enjoy sex with your wife, masturbation that you feel is inappropriate or excessive, etc. Is it the lust or excessive preoccupation with other women/mental images that is the problem--I am not quite sure why lustful thoughts are problematic for your wife--I would be surprised if she does not have similar experiences although they may take a differnt form and be less visual--the passage of years (decades) will probably reduce the some of the physical components of the lust but I am certainly not immune at 63--just a little less inclined to ruminate on them and and attach them to specific sexual behaviors. I do believe as you acknowledge the absolute naturalness of these thoughts, trust your own behavior and your commitment and fidelity to your wife it does open up much broader ways of enjoying women and their friendship
posted by rmhsinc at 3:36 PM on August 18, 2005

Hmmm... maybe lust is a normal, healthy prime human instinct, but so is the urge to take a piss. If I took a piss every time I felt the least little urge, the couch would be soaked in urine in a week. The important thing is not to act on every least urge you feel. It's like what Martin Luther said. You can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can keep it from building a nest in your hair. As soon as that bird (lust) touches down on your head, you have to shoo it out of there, not start handing it twigs.

Some people say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with them looking at other women as long as they don't actually act on it. If you believe this, and it works for you, good luck, but I've found that idea to be a pile of bullshit. About 40 percent of my sexual urges can be fulfilled just by looking at women. If I spend that 40 percent looking at GIS searches or Kristi in Accounting, I'm cheating my wife out of that 40 percent. I could bullshit myself and say that what my wife doesn't know about isn't any of her business, but guess what? My wife likes feeling attractive. If I get my visual sexual gratification from porn, GIS, or Kristi in Accounting, I'm not getting it from my wife. I'm only coming to my wife for sex, after a long hard day of imagining having sex with other women (sounds like the definition of objectification to me). But if I am getting my visual gratification from my wife, she has more self esteem. She has a better body image. Feeling more attractive, she wants to have more sex. Everyone wins.

What does it mean to "act on" lust? To me it means doing anything to prolong the feeling. Example: I'm walking around the corner and bam! there's a hot chick walking down the sidewalk at me. It would be unhealthy to try to deny that this is, indeed, a hot chick. Am I experiencing maybe a little twinge of lust? Absolutely! Should I feel guilty about this twinge? No!

But while there's not much I can do about what I feel initially, I can certainly stop looking at her. This is where my natural geekyness helps me. If, while looking straight ahead, I can't keep my eyes off her, I throw everything I know about social interaction out the window and I stare resolutely at my shoes until she walks past. Or I stop and get out my palm pilot and start tapping away. Or I rummage through my backpack, looking for something nonexistent. Or I duck into a nearby store... whatever it takes to stop looking. I don't care what she thinks because I'm never going to see her again.

Another example: I'm up late at night, reading the entire internet. And I come upon the name of an actress I don't recognize. So I do a GIS search to find out who she is and up comes OH MY GOD BOOBS! I close the browser. Problem solved.

Here are three things I found to be helpful. (If you memorize that Martin Luther quote in the first paragraph, that's a good one too.)

1. We become better at the things we do. A friend of mine says this all the time and he's right. If I spend my spare time watching porn and getting sexually aroused, then I'm going to get really good at being sexually aroused by porn. If I spend my time rock climbing, or programming, or getting into fights with my wife, or cooking, or procrastinating, whatever it is, I'm going to get good at it.

Remembering this one keeps me hopeful. It implies that no effort I spend on self improvement is ever wasted.

2. There are lots of different kinds of beautiful, but your wife is only one of them. There's lots of different kinds of hot. Blondes, brunettes, redheads, not to mention tall vs. short, curvy vs. flat, etc. Your job is to associate "hot" with only one of them: your wife. Once I got engaged, I started to get the message across to my brain that women who don't look like my wife aren't attractive. I've had moderate success. Blondes no longer really do anything for me, no matter what they look like.

This guideline is a lot easier to implement if you take the zero tolerance policy on what you let your eyes roam around on. The idea here is to get your brain thinking "my wife == sexy", so that eventually it'll start thinking in the opposite direction: "sexy == my wife".

3. Don't get angry at yourself. This one is very important. The brain places higher importance on thoughts which are accompanied by strong emotions. Being angry at your brain for offering up visual images at inappropriate times doesn't keep it from continuing to do so. The best way to get the inappropriate (however you define inappropriate) thoughts and mental images that are already in your head, out of your head, is to just set them aside. Every time they pop their heads up, set them aside. When I first started trying to just set aside those thoughts or images I didn't want to think about, I had a hard time of it for the first couple days. Sometimes I had to "set aside" the thoughts several times a minute. But after about a week, that was it. My brain mostly gave up.

I found it was better to try to set aside the thoughts and change the subject, rather than change the thoughts themselves.

Disclaimers: Your mileage may vary. All of the above advice is based on my own personal experience and works really well for me. Do not swim for one hour after eating. Member FDIC.
posted by the_W at 4:09 PM on August 18, 2005 [2 favorites]

The Girls in Their Summer Dresses.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 4:34 PM on August 18, 2005

I think there is a difference between "entertaining a sexual thought about another woman" and looking for pictures of supermodels and actresses after you've seen a movie of them. The former is just going to happen. You just don't act on it--you see a hot chick, but you don't openly ogle her, jump her bones, or take pictures of her to jack off to later.

The second is not just entertaining a thought, but actively encouraging those thoughts by pursuing them online. That's a strength-of-will kind of thing--nobody can stop fantasies from springing to their brain, but they can stop turning on the computer and clicking the mouse. Take a cold shower. Work out. Have sex with your wife or jack off if she doesn't feel like it. Learn meditation and calming techniques and practice them instead of visiting those websites. Investigate those sex addict links PadrePuffin posted for more information.

For the record, personally a partner of mine looking at porn would not affect me emotionally if it didn't interfere with our sexual relationship (i.e. I'm only going to be hurt unless it feels like they're abandoning me for the porn), so I'm not giving this suggestions from a PORN IS BADBADBAD mindset.
posted by schroedinger at 5:00 PM on August 18, 2005

the_W, you are one smart cookie. And, your wife is a fortunate woman.

psychotic_venom: my ex had an addiction to online porn. I got left completely out of the equation, and it hurt terribly. He didn't realize that he had trained his libido to respond only to the images he saw flickering on his computer monitor. I didn't know how to approach him in a healthy way about this issue. It was seven kinds of hell.

Looking and 'lusting' after someone other than your partner isn't the problem. It's when that looking and lusting invades all of the space in your head, heart, and life that should be shared with your partner that the betrayal starts.

I wish you luck. You're already farther along than some will ever be - you've admitted that you need to make a change, and seem sincere about learning how to do it.
posted by Corky at 5:44 PM on August 18, 2005 [1 favorite]

The online porn question is a tricky one, because what it represents is less an interest in things sexual than an unrewarding response to stress. The online porn is much, much easier, because it doesn't talk, have ideas, act unpredictable, ask anything of you, or even see you or know who you are. Meanwhile, your wife is and does all of these things. What you're looking for from the porn is not sex, but it's also not something you're going to get from a real human being. IN this way, it really IS similar to addictions to alcohol, gambling, drugs, or whatever -- you've said this happens when you get 'wound up at work'. You've found something that makes it possible for you to distance yourself from the conditions of your own life. The best way to combat this is probably not to focus on the sex issue, but on the way you're using an activity to avoid or change your mood.
posted by Miko at 7:35 PM on August 18, 2005

Well the main problem with trying to avoid lust is that the more you consciously try and avoid it, the more tempting it becomes. Instead maybe you could try a Buddhist-type technique where, whenever you start lusting after someone who's not your wife, rather than mentally scolding yourself you can try and just sort of accept the fact "This is lust" while at the same time by doing that you're observing yourself rather than the object of your lust, thus becoming detached from the situation.
posted by dagnyscott at 8:28 PM on August 18, 2005

the_W had some good stuff there. Your posts haven't indicated any kind of religious motivation for this, but you might benefit from reading C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. There are one or two great essays on sex and lust, and I think they'd help you out a ton. It's a book that's worth buying, but your local library should have a copy or six.

I've found raw accountability to be helpful to me. There are a few friends (guys) I meet with weekly who share your (and my) desire to move away from lust. I'm honest with them about my struggles (not just sexuality: pride, anger, doubt, etc.). They help me, I help them. That is in the context of my church, so, again, that might not be helpful. Maybe PadrePuffin's -Anonymous groups might be helpful.
posted by Alt F4 at 7:10 AM on August 19, 2005

Is it really "lust," or the idea that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence? I suggest more communication with your wife might be needed.
posted by cass at 10:32 AM on August 19, 2005