How can I stop acting dumb around my girlfriend?

July 29, 2005 12:00 AM

How can I stop acting dumb around my girlfriend?

I'm smarter than my girlfriend. That alone isn't a problem. After all, we've both got our strengths — she's more practical, more hardworking and better at dealing with people, I'm more interested in solving problems and better with facts and ideas.

The problem is, I find that I dumb myself down when I'm around her. She doesn't make herself act impractical, lazy or unfriendly around me, so why should I hide what I'm good at when she's around? But that's exactly what I do. I "forget" things I know, or act confused by things that make perfect sense, or I just avoid intellectual subjects altogether. My public school education taught me that it's dangerous to act too smart around anyone but your fellow geeks, and now in my mid-twenties I still can't seem to break the habit.

What should I do? I'd especially like advice from guys who have had the same problem. Google turns up tons of advice geared towards women, none of which really resonates with me. I'm not trying to make myself more feminine or more submissive; I don't want her to think of me as a brainless hot body. Hell, I know she likes it when I show off my brains a little. I'm just not used to acting smart around non-geeks, and I have no idea how to start. Practical tips on how to act smart without sounding arrogant or obnoxious would also be nice.

Note to the "you didn't say you love her!" crew: chill out. We've been dating for less than a month. But I like her a lot, I think the relationship's got potential, and I really want it to work out. How's that?

posted by anonymous to human relations (51 comments total)

I have dated a few geeks myself. The ones that made me feel stupid were the ones who were condescending, or who would go on and on about kernel recompiling while completely ignoring the fact that I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.
You don't have pretend to not understand a concept; just don't go on and on about details that she obviously wouldn't understand. Keep your explanations of things simple; not THEN MR. COMPUTER SENDS A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO MRS. COMPUTER simple; just leave out complicated information that isn't necessary to understand the basic idea.
posted by Juliet Banana at 12:47 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

Think whether you have you noticed this before? If not, is this new girl what you may, in your heart of hearts, consider "out of your league" in any way? If you've had a previous experience where your intelligence has been used against you, particularly by females, that could certainly cause this problem.

I certainly round off my more geeky edges with my girlfriend, but only because she, bless her heart, doesn't understand a lot of it. I have no problem with taking calls or working while she's around though, so she knows I do some really geeky stuff, even if I don't share it all with her. What you're experiencing sounds a lot more involuntary and more severe, and I would suspect is due to stress of losing the girl or some previous trauma.

I'm not one to recommend physchologists or therapists, but this is something you may be able to fix yourself by recognizing it when it's in action and taking mini-steps to change your behavior while it is in flow. This demands self-discipline, but becomes easier the more you do it. It does require, however, that you recognize the reasons for this behavior, no matter how unsavory they are.
posted by wackybrit at 12:57 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm no grand expert at any of these matters because I'm not in a long relationship, but... what I've found to be key with all of these things is just relax. If she/he knew you were smart when they entered the relationship with you, then it must have been an attracting factor. Presuming to kill/hide this attribute is a bit of insulting. (and please, make sure she doesn't want this supressed)

But as suggested above, don't ever be insufferable about being smart and that' in any relationship, romantic or not. If you trust the woman, I'd say approach your fears honestly. If they agree with your assestment about relative intelligence, then go ahead and lay it out... ask of her the honesty to tell her if you're being "stupid" or "insufferable" around her and adjust accordingly.

And to the aphormism: "Be yourself", remember that flexibility is always the key of any relation between humans. Since she's not making this demand of you, it's less weight and instead is your understanding of what make the relationship smoother. If it's not actually necessary, then it's explainable as you trying to find the right balance for your relationship.

Sheesh.. I've suddenly become a warm and fuzzy bunny. *bong* *bong*.. Nope.. dammit.
posted by drewbage1847 at 1:31 AM on July 29, 2005

I'm smarter than my girlfriend.

says who? seriously. you may simply be more arrogant than she is, no offense intended (most of us around here are quite arrogant, and convinced to be smarter than we actually are, myself included). knowledge does not equal intelligence, you know. you just may need better social skills yourself, to get a little over, ahem, yourself. maybe your girlfriend's fine.
posted by matteo at 2:39 AM on July 29, 2005

I agree with matteo. Maybe you are smarter than her in all respects, but I doubt it. Treat her as an equal. Condescension can ruin a relationship.
posted by malp at 4:11 AM on July 29, 2005

It seems pretty normal to spend your time talking about your problems, friends, family, future plans and day to day life stuff rather than abstract intellectual ideas when you're in a relationship. And that's before you get into the whole baby-talk-i-wuv-you thing. I bet this is less of a problem when you are around other people, I know that I tend to be surprised how smart my SO is when she gets going with a new audience.
posted by teleskiving at 4:26 AM on July 29, 2005

You're only a month in, so you don't have a whole lot of shared experience together. As you do more stuff together and have more shared memories, you'll find you don't need to "dumb yourself" down as much because topics will not tend to stray into the realms of high intellect over common experience.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:01 AM on July 29, 2005

matteo's got a really good point, even if he states it a bit harshly. I suffered from the same problem in my teens and early twenties. Getting over myself involved a few steps, which weren't easy but made a huge difference in my life.

First of all, stop basing your image of yourself on how "smart" you supposedly are. Manipulating facts and ideas is a skill just like any other. School is an artificial environment that publicly rewards that skill, so it's normal that it divides people and creates resentment. But in real life, that skill is far less important and interesting than it seems when you're young. If you meet a great tennis player, do you like or dislike him based on his tennis abilities? You'll have to take some time to figure out your human qualities, the ones that really matter and that generally have nothing to do with how big your vocabulary is or how good you are at wrangling complex ideas.

If you're lucky, your girlfriend can help you here. What does she appreciate about you? Hopefully it's something more important than your ability to do well on IQ tests. Learn to express that and appreciate it in yourself. It's not about hiding your smarts, it's about finding other parts of you that matter more.

Second, broaden your definition of "smart". People with great SAT scores go on to make the same stupid mistakes in their lives that we all make. Being practical or good with people is a kind of intelligence that you may lack. If you become more interested in the kind of smarts that other people have, you'll find yourself more open and less concerned with the importance of your own kind of smarts. If you're really intelligent, you'll come to terms with the many areas of life where you're stupid, and try to learn from other people.

Third, find an outlet for your inner geek. I hang out with lots of very intelligent but uneducated people in RL, and then go to the Internet for my dose of geekiness. Don't expect your relationship to include everything that interests you. If your girlfriend isn't interested in the details of your kernel recompilation, it doesn't mean that she's less intelligent than you, it just means that you need some other friends to play geek with every now and then.
posted by fuzz at 5:29 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

she's more practical, more hardworking and better at dealing with people

If she's better than you at that stuff, but you are better with facts and ideas, I hate to tell you this, but that would make her the smarter person, in my book.

I am a mechanical engineer trained at one of the nation's best schools, but I'm also an idiot in many ways. Without my wife to act as a liason between me and a social circle, I wouldn't be able to negotiate much, if at all, socially. To me the "smartest" people are the ones who are best at dealing with other people.
posted by Doohickie at 5:29 AM on July 29, 2005

If you *are* actually smarter than her, find yourself a nerd/geek girl. If she can't hold her own against you in chess, Tetris, Mario 64, or the like, what's the point?

Otherwise, don't dumb yourself down. Learn to not be a didactic bastard, but don't act stupid. That's not going to work. You'll hate yourself, you'll feel sheepish, it's ingenuine and condescending.

Realize and seek out the truth that while there may indeed be gradients of intelligence, that intelligence and smarts come in many, many forms and applications. How smart can you really be in a social society if you're socially inept?

It's perfectly acceptable to hold forth and pontificate and get all excited about nerdly things, but be sure to note whether or not you just made her eyes glaze over like a day-old donut, and remember that it's also perfectly acceptable to sincerely ask "Am I boring you?" and to change the subject.

Save the dumbing down for the neighborhood BBQs or whatever where you'll actually scare people if you don't.
posted by loquacious at 5:33 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

Consider that you are mixing up being smart with being 'geeky.' Is what we're talking about an actual matter of mental capabilities as such, or is the difference between you more about education, or more about a difference in the kinds of subjects on which you are both inclined to expend mental energy?

Being "practical," getting along with others, those things require intelligence too; but they are not skills that would cause your girlfriend to think of herself as a "geek." Oftentimes questions like this boil down to: "I feel self-conscious about being nerdy around my non-nerdy girlfriend / boyfriend." Watch out for this. You may be a victim of the cult of geek pride, in which only certain kinds of intelligence and only certain kinds of interests--the kinds that people think of as 'geek' interests--seem to count. (I say this a bit as a former 'geek' who is now in grad school in English--a pursuit which falls outside of the circle of respect for many of my geek friends.)

I'll add: (a) if she really is unintellectual in a broad sense and you really are, then that is a real problem to take seriously; but (b) you will never know until you take her seriously enough to share your intellectual interests. Under no circumstances should you have an "honest discussion" with her about what you perceive as the relative differences in your intelligence.
posted by josh at 5:52 AM on July 29, 2005

As for practical tips: the main thing is that you don't want to be alone in the intellectual stuff. I.e., you don't want to be the only one talking about computers (if that's your thing), and you don't want to be the only one talking about the Bergman film you just saw (if that's your thing).

You need to find an activity or some kind of fun that interests you both and that leads to the kind of conversation you crave. Find out what interests her and what she knows about and get involved with that; or plan a trip to somewhere interesting; or see an accessible film you'll both like. Just do something together that you can talk about that isn't only in your area of expertise.
posted by josh at 5:58 AM on July 29, 2005

Along the lines of loquacious's answer. The important thing is just to not go into lecture mode. Referencing something more technical/on greater level of detail than most would use (i.e. being a geek about it) is fine. And cute/sexy. But the answer to "what's that?" is a succinct, relevant description, with perhaps a clear comparative example. It's not the whole of Physics 201, the history of anime, or whatever. It's easy to keep explaining and explaining when it's something that you love, but for the love of god remember to stop talking. This is the difference between being an enormously dull dork vs. being a smart guy. (For the record, I'm a girl. Who has, upon occasion, found myself delivering entire literature classes if I don't watch it.)
posted by desuetude at 6:08 AM on July 29, 2005

josh makes many really good points, as does loquacious. I would simply add that if there are things that take up a significant portion of your time and attention that she does not understand, you have to develop a way to talk to her about them. If they are just work matters, it may not be that necessary, but if you really love, say, Bergman movies, and she just doesn't think about them, well you should talk to her about what you love and why they are so exciting to you sooner rather than later.
posted by OmieWise at 6:15 AM on July 29, 2005

You said you've been dating for less than a month. I'd say the best thing here is to just not think about it and let time pass. Everybody puts up a bit of a front when they start dating someone -- especially someone they really like. After a while, you'll let the front drop gradually.

Think of it like farting. If you never farted in front of her for a month, then dropped a half-dozen bombs on the next date, she'd think you were a freak. But if you accidentally let one slip one day, and you both shared a laugh over it, you'd be a normal guy who happens to fart. So don't drop the geek-bomb on her, just let one slip. She'll laugh at your nerdiness, and eventually she won't care.
posted by MrZero at 6:51 AM on July 29, 2005

I agree with matteo. Intelligence should not be mistaken for a good memory for trivia or mathematics. Intelligence is the capacity for learning and intuitive understanding. With obvious exceptions, we all fall into a fairly close range using that metric.
To be blunt, get over yourself. Your perceived intellectual superiority is masking your lack of understanding of real world intelligence.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 7:02 AM on July 29, 2005

One of the best indications of the quality of a relationship is how much of yourself you can bring into it. Whether it is your limitation, her limitation or something in the combination that limits things coming out, the key to checking if this is really a long term limitation is to be honest about your experience. You might not feel that comfortable about discussing it directly yet in that way with her. Phrasing it as "I'm not comfortable being smart around you" might be intimidating for you and her. So instead you might find a different way of phrasing it, e.g., "I really like you alot and there are parts of me that aren't coming out yet in this relationship which I would feel much more sure about if I could communicate, and I would like your help to do this..."

I've talked to Mensa and Mensa++ individuals with similar issues in feeling that their ability to connect with people was limited as other people couldn't really grasp their perspective... I feel that way at times... everybody sometimes feels like other people can't get them. The trick is to find a way to communicate things in a way that people can grasp, which is an intellectual challenge in its own right. People have a lot more potential to understand if you believe that they do.
posted by blueyellow at 7:05 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

The important thing is just to not go into lecture mode.

Lots of great discussion here, but this is the single best specific advice. Men do love lecturing, and I've struggled with this tendency all my life. Force yourself to condense your point into a sentence or two, then wait to see how she responds.

As for the "smarter" part, yeah, lose the arrogance. The older I get, the more aware I become that there are many, many varieties of intelligence, and (surprise!) everybody thinks theirs is the best, or only real, kind. Us bookish types respect bookish intelligence, and I have no desire to put it down, but it's no better than other kinds, and it's of considerably less value in a lot of situations. The more you can learn to respect your girlfriend's genuine smarts, even if they're different in nature from yours, the longer the relationship is likely to last. Nobody likes being looked down on.
posted by languagehat at 7:24 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

Oh yeah, I forgot:

I've talked to Mensa and Mensa++ individuals with similar issues in feeling that their ability to connect with people was limited as other people couldn't really grasp their perspective...

No offense, but when I was dragged to a Mensa meeting by a friend who was hoping to meet "intelligent women" there, I definitely got the impression the people there were Mensa members because they couldn't "connect with people" -- they might tell themselves it's because "other people couldn't really grasp their perspective," but that's self-serving horseshit. If they knew how to connect with people on any basis other than math or other forms of geekery, they wouldn't be turning to Mensa for a social life. Just one man's opinion.
posted by languagehat at 7:28 AM on July 29, 2005

With geekish stuff, if I notice I'm getting on a roll describing or talking about something that I suspect my companion won't understand well [and yet, for some reason I think they will be interested in what I have to say] I generally just say "I'm going to geek out on this topic for a second because I think you'll really be interested, that okay?" I think that gives the listener the tacit approval to say "um, that wasn't interesting" afterwards, or otherwise give feedback, especailyl if it's solicited. Often if there's something you're excited about enough to want to talk about it -- and I agree NOT lecture -- that excitement will rub off on who you're with.

You seem to have a grip on the fact that you're both smart in different ways, even if that's not strictly what you're saying, so pay some attention to giving both of you a chance to shine smart-wise. As you try to share some of what you know with her, give her the same chance to share what she knows with you.
posted by jessamyn at 7:29 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

I could say almost the same things about my girlfriend, but it has never been a problem. I think it really depends on what you're into, and what she is interested in. In my situation, she doesn't know much about a lot of the things I know a lot about, but she's almost always interested as long as it's explained clearly. I never condescend to her -- I think really almost anyone can understand almost anything if it's actually interesting and it's explained well and in an engaging way. If she's not interested or you're rambling on, back off. If she tries to steer the subject away from what you've been talking about for the past ten minutes, take the hint and move on. It is important to also be genuinely interested in what she is interested in. I really mean this -- if you're faking interest, you will not be enjoying yourself, and you're probably better off with someone else. I think it also depends on what exactly it is that you're interested in. If it's computer games and anime, IMO, that doesn't really make you smart, just nerdy. A lot of women tend to be practical, and I think a lot more will be interested in something that you are doing or something you've learned that is consequental rather than something that you find fun that the rest of the world just sees as escapism. If this is the situation, ask yourself if you would like to have a conversation about romance novels for an hour.
posted by cameldrv at 7:47 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

i don't think you're arrogant. i think you're just confused about the conflicting requirements society imposes on us. in fact, i think the problem is largely that you're trying too hard to appease people who toss around "arrogant" as if it's part of the solution.

so.

you go to school and you get better marks than everyone else. people tell you you're clever. which is kind of odd, because you don't feel any different to anyone else, but whatever. and it keeps happening, and you say thank-you, because obviously this is a good thing, even though you're not actually doing anything special.

then you schoolmates notice that you're different. and you get shit for it. for being arrogant. so you decide being clever isn't that great and pretend to be stupid. and it helps, and maybe someone else is now the most different person, so they get shit instead of you; you can get on with your life.

and you keep getting top marks and go to the big school and then the big university. and people keep telling you you're clever like they're giving you a fucking sweetie and you want to say "yes, i know, people keep telling me", but you can't do that - you tried once - because if you do people say you're arrogant. because being clever is good, but acknowledging it is bad.

so you dance their stupid little dance, getting praise for being clever and slapped when you say so yourself. you dance this little dance for so long that it starts to feel normal. hey, i'm the goofy forgetful guy whose kinda stupid in a goofy way heh - and not arrogant at all - but clever in those exams, well, nice chap anyway.

and you fall in love. and she tells you you're clever too. and you play the same stupid dance. but really, you'd like one person you could stop dancing for. one person you could be yourself. one person you don't have to fake for.

because clever describes a certain kind of analytic thinking, a certain analytic introspection, you know it's just some trick in your head. just like some people are tall, or others are black. and you'd like to point this out, and say "give me a fucking break, i know i'm clever. you're good with people. there are times when i would rather be you".

so you find a way to ask for advice where you think people will accept that. you try to explain it. you say we've both got our strengths...

but no, they tell you what you already know, as if you didn't, and call you arrogant because you stopped dancing their stupid little dance for a moment.


and my only advice is to ignore them. fuck the matteos in this world, because - as in so many things - they don't have a clue. be a bit more "arrogant" if that means dancing a little bit less.
posted by andrew cooke at 7:48 AM on July 29, 2005 [3 favorites has favorites]

languagehat: There is nothing wrong with thinking you are smart. It is something to be proud of, and a source of self-esteem. Being smart doesn't mean arrogance or a sense of superiority. It means you have a part of yourself that you are proud of, that has served you well and that you would like to cultivate.

Anonymous perceives that people will perceive him negatively if he lets these aspects of himself out. There are 2 questions there. Will other people think he is being superior if he does? and does he think he is superior? If he can be honest about both then he can probably get over it.

As for Mensa. I've never been to a Mensa meeting, but I would be hard pressed to generalize about the 100,000 mensa members from one meeting.
posted by blueyellow at 8:07 AM on July 29, 2005

Andrew Cooke, that was amazing.

Also, there are geeky/smart girls out there, equally unafraid to show it. Date them. Someone you can make out with will please you for a few months; someone you can talk to will form a deep relationship with you for years.
posted by NickDouglas at 8:57 AM on July 29, 2005

I went through a series of relationships in which I felt much smarter than the girls I was dating. I wasn't necessarily involved in complicated, geeky interests or necessarily had more memorized knowledge than them. I just never got the impression from them that they even spoke the same language as I did. I would say something that I thought was insightful or funny and they'd look at me like I had two heads. And when they shared an opinion or a story of how they dealt with some experience, I found myself wondering what the hell they were talking about. I often felt like I had to bite my tongue and take deep breaths to avoid berating them for their complete lack of common sense or perspective.

Comfort and connection are two very very important aspects of any relationship. If you're not comfortable being yourself or feel as though you can't connect to your SO in the way that you would ideally like, then there's no need to perpetuate the relationship. I mean, I'm not friends with people who don't understand me. Period.

After these agonizing relationships in which I felt as though 2/3rds of my personality had to take a back seat, I met the woman who, in about a month and a half, I'll be married to. My first impression of her was that I couldn't believe how easy it was to be my whole self around her. I was as immediately comfortable with her as I am with my friend who I've known since I was 2.

That being said, you say you're only a month into this relationship. If it's mostly fun, then there's no problem with keeping it going until it's no longer any fun. But if you know that it's not what you want, then you've got no obligation. However, if you feel as though you can't be your self, expect it to end (maybe even sooner than you think).

Don't forget how important it is to feel appreciated by your SO. If you can't be your self, then you can't be wholly appreciated.

But worry not. There will be partners with whom you can truly connect. Even on the geeky, esoteric level that you long for. I've found mine.

Just don't dumb your self down. What if she comes along and you've become used to acting stupid? What will she think of you then?
posted by Jon-o at 9:14 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

i don't think you're arrogant.

Arrogance isn't knowing that you're good at something, it's thinking that you're so good at it that other people won't be able to relate to you. Very few people are actually so good at what they do that regular folk can't even interact with them.

If I played golf with Tiger Woods, he would beat me. If he was a total dick about it, I would hate him. Tiger can think it's because I'm put off by his ability, but really it'd be because I was put off by his attitude. If you have issues with expressing your intelligence, ask yourself (and other people too) if it's because people are responding to your intelligence, or if your attitude is putting them off.
posted by 23skidoo at 9:16 AM on July 29, 2005

who would go on and on about kernel recompiling while completely ignoring the fact that I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.

OTOH, it could be that it doesn't matter at all whether you understand it, so long as he is managing to work out some problem by yammering on about it. It's a weird geek thought process: babble about a problem and it fixes itself.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:21 AM on July 29, 2005

I too have occasional bouts of smarter-than-everybody-else feelings and manly/geeky lecturing. I've found the best way to keep it toned down in relationships is to ask to ask for help or advice in the areas where I feel deficient. Asking your girlfriend her advice on how to deal with a business or social matters with which you are not comfortable will go a long way in showing that you are not arrogant or condescending. Of course, you have to be genuinely interested in what she has to say and act upon it or there's not much point. Respect her for her abilities and skills and she will be understanding when you let your geek flag fly.
posted by monkeyman at 9:26 AM on July 29, 2005

I'm much more technical than my wife (not surprising, I'm a serious geek and my life before her wholly revolved around computers since I was 11 (almost 25 years now). It takes a little effort, but I've learned to drop my arrogance and realize that she's wonderfully intelligent in her own ways. When we were first together, I held back a lot of information in order to let her absorb at a reasonable, non-stressful rate.

Now, three years later, she's quite comfortable asking me reasonably technical questions. She's not a hardcore sysadmin like me and never will be. She's better than the average computer user now.

My point is...take it slow, feed her a little bit at a time, and -if- she's interested in you and the topic, she'll learn and pull the knowledge out of you over time. If you push too hard or she gets frustrated or bored, the relationship will fall apart. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as if that's the case you weren't right for each other anyway.
posted by Kickstart70 at 9:27 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

An anecdote and a sympathetic note:
Anecdote— When I was in an advanced physics class in high school, there was a girl named Mandi Cummings (no, seriously), who was the biggest moron in the class. Everyone wondered how she got into the advanced class, but she was rich and beautiful and popular, so there were always people willing to help her out. She'd ask the dumbest questions about things that we had gone over three times already, and would twirl her hair and giggle.
I ended up in a group project with her once, and was feeling pretty confident about what we were gonna do. After all, the other people in the group were my pals, aside from Mandi, and she was such a ditz that she'd go along with anything we said, right?
Well, except that as soon as we got out of the group, she pulled me aside, pointed out a litany of wrong concepts that I had, and had already worked out a much better replacement experiment for our group. I wisely went with it, and no longer questioned why she had a four point. From that point on, since she was tangentially associated with my social circle, I got to see that she was really smart, and fairly kind and good-hearted. I never really became friends with her (partially because she was way more popular than I was, and partially because it kinda irked me that I knew she was only pretending to be dumb), but I respected her a lot more after that.
I realize that you think that you're smarter than your girlfriend, but has it ever occured to you that she might be the one playing dumb and just be better at it?

The second part is sympathetic. I think, in some ways, that I'm "smarter" than the girl that I'm dating now. I certainly know more about philosophy and science, and I think that generally I'm a better writer. But (BUT BUT!), a big part of that is that things like Heidegger's arguments about technology simply don't engage her or interest her in any way. She got a communications degree in a program that focuses on media studies, and she's certainly as smart or smarter than I am within that field (the most annoying thing with talking to her about media studies is that we tend to agree, so I find myself taking Devil's Advocate positions that tend to upset her just to keep the conversation going). And she's certainly the one that's able to do things like pay bills on time and work hard at things she hates in order to make money. In the most practical ways, she's a lot smarter than I am, and I think that is part of what decreases her appetite for esoterica.
So... I'd tell you to work on appreciating things that she's smart about, trying to learn from her, and keeping in mind that there are different societal gender expectations with regard to intelligence that shape behavior more than they shape actual intellect. Males are often expected to be arrogant and aggressive with regard to their intelligence, and women generally have a different behavioral construct built around them. Underestimating them because of it is pretty unfair.
Try to find common ground and work out of that. Everyone's an expert on something, and if you can work to bring your sphere of knowledge into overlap with hers, you'll both be happier...
But look at me, I'm writing like I'm Etherial Bligh...
posted by klangklangston at 9:44 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

I've done this before as well. Typically with people who have had a lot less book-learning than I have had. At other times I completely forget about it, or catch myself after I've already been too "cerebral." People don't seem to mind too much.

I'd focus on appreciative aspects, if I were you. I mean, don't worry about being too smart for your own good. Instead, make it obvious that you find value in what your girl offers you. You seem to be saying that you are complementary to each other, not supplementary, so make sure you affirm the ways she makes you better. I've found that as long as you sincerely appreciate a person for what they have to offer you, they don't mind how exceptionally stupid or exceptionally smart you are.
posted by sciurus at 10:05 AM on July 29, 2005

The Mandy Cummings story reminds me of a highly intelligent acquaintance of mine who has even been described as a "genius." However, in everyday situations she acts like a total ditz. I can't respect her, because she's artificially dumbing herself down. Don't let this happen to you.
posted by grouse at 10:52 AM on July 29, 2005

On the practical side of how you can actually stop acting dumb, maybe you can train yourself into letting a little geek/smart out from time to time. Set a schedule for yourself of when you will bring out the "smart" for a bit, and then if you get positive results, your inhibitions may fall a little.

I also like the idea of focusing on her strengths. The more you see her as an equal, the more comfortable you will feel in showing your own intelligence.

It's natural for most socially adept people not to display much more intelligence than they believe the people around them have. But as you get more familiar with people, acknowledge their strenghts to yourself and to them more and more, and don't be afraid to show your own. As people know you better they'll know that you are not trying to "show off" and they will know that you see them as an equal. Both of these should prevent you from hurting their feelings or looking like/being an ass.
posted by lorrer at 10:58 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

Okay, I have to throw down the gauntlet, sort of: I don't think matteo was calling anonymous 'arrogant' to the degree he deserved that particular send-off andrew cooke! Matteo's was a pretty soft blow, I thought.

I agree with the principle that you shouldn't 'fake it' or hide your smarts--that's stupid. At the same time, there's a fine line between being 'geeky' and being self-indulgent; and oftentimes a sort of secretive, us-vs.-them mentality is part of the geek world-view. I don't know if anonymous is like this--that's one of the downsides of anonymous questions on AskMe--but the way the question divides the world into "geeks" and "non-geeks" certainly points that way.

My own experience has taught me that the world really isn't like that--divided into the geeks and the jocks, the 'normal' dumb people and the ostracized smart people. There are many shades of gray. What could be seen as some kind of social 'dance' is, I think, just social life. And for every 'geek' who has done well in school and felt bad about it, there is another 'non-geek' who has spent their lives worrying about their intelligence and envying those for whom academic achievement is effortless. As far as I see it, regardless of the value-system one imposes upon the geek/non-geek distinction, the ratio of security to insecurity for most people, regardless of their 'geekiness,' is the same.

The reason this geek/non-geek distinction is lame is that it prioritizes some kinds of knowledge over others in a totally zany way. So, for instance, being a UNIX sysadmin--a job which requires intelligence, but which, obviously enough, no one who is not a sysadmin has any particular reason to find interesting--becomes being "smart" and "geeky" whereas being successful in other ways no longer counts. Knowing a lot about anime (or Dickens) becomes a sign of how smart you are, yet getting ahead in your job and getting along with other people becomes a skill that doesn't seem to require intelligence. And the idea seems to be that, if you can talk at great length about some subject it shows you are smart--regardless of whether or not your audience finds you interesting, or whether or not you can speak in a way that's not didactic or condescending. It can be hard to make what's interesting to you interesting to other people.

Anonymous has side-stepped the problem by simply hiding his nerdy interests--but he's never going to be able to comfortably explore them with his girlfriend if the attitude is that his interests make him 'smart' whereas other non-geek interests (such as people, for example) make her 'not smart.' It should be clear that it all depends what you mean by 'smart.'

If the burden of all this smartness is so large that it shocks you into dumb silence when you want to speak to others, you need to let go of this burden. You need to stop worrying about how smart you sound, and stop simultaneously being proud of how smart you sound. Maybe you need to find something new that neither of you know about and learn about it together; but regardless of what 'practical' steps you take you need to simply stop thinking about your 'smarts' this way. No relationship is going to go anywhere if one of the founding principles is that one of you is 'the brain' of the couple. Think of yourself as helpful, useful, humble, thankful for your smarts--not as defensive, persecuted, ostracized, part of a secret club of smart people. Try to approach your situation with a little more relaxed humor, and a little less Mensa-like self-identification and self-obsession. Remember that smarts are no good in human relationship terms unless they can be deployed communicatively and in an interesting, empathetic way.
posted by josh at 11:00 AM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

this is great.

"knowing" you are smarter = your stupid behavior.

solved!
posted by luriete at 12:27 PM on July 29, 2005

Metafilter: Consider that you are mixing up being smart with being 'geeky'.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:28 PM on July 29, 2005 [1 favorite has favorites]

Think of yourself as helpful, useful, humble, thankful for your smarts--not as defensive, persecuted, ostracized, part of a secret club of smart people. Try to approach your situation with a little more relaxed humor, and a little less Mensa-like self-identification and self-obsession. Remember that smarts are no good in human relationship terms unless they can be deployed communicatively and in an interesting, empathetic way.

Josh's advice here is really good, Anon. I had an epiphany along similar lines a few months ago, when I suddenly realized in one flash that I am not my book collection. I am not my multiple advanced degrees. I am not my record collection. I am not my clothes, nor my haircut, nor my collection of arcane bits of trivia about the mod movement, the Vienna Secession, or random Trotsky quotes that are all banging around my head. All of these things that I thought "proved" my smarts/cool/cred/whatever (and, correspondingly, separated my from other people who didn't share them) are simply exterior trappings, preferences, pursuits, or activities. It doesn't mean that I don't enjoy or value them -- I am grateful for my excellent education, and proud of my interests in literature, and love music very much. But none of that matters in terms of who I am: I am funny and loyal and loving and strong and articulate and creative. I am responsible and resilient and empathetic and a good listener. I am a good sister, aunt, daughter, and friend. All of these things matter far, far more than my presumable location on some scale of intellect.

The relevant point here, Anon, is that if that's true for who I am, then it's also just as true for the people around me -- they, too, are not defined by their book collections or degrees or particular assemblages of knowledge (or lack thereof). I'm smart in my own way; others are smart in theirs. You're smart in one way; your girlfriend is smart in another. It doesn't actually make either of you "smarter." The real question is whether or not you're able to find each other interesting and engaging? Do you share conversations, activities, pursuits, etc. that you both find enjoyable? It doesn't mean you have to both like or know the same things all the time -- just that you're both willing and able to be engaged by each other.

For example: the guy I'm dating right now didn't go to college -- and you know what? It doesn't matter in the slightest. He's hilarious and bright and warm-hearted and generous and honest and sincere and hardworking and could rewire a house in an afternoon (whereas I secretly suspect that electricity = magic). I enjoy his company more than anyone I've met in years. I can go on about Ulysses (for example), and it's still a good conversation because he's interested enough to ask questions, and because I finally let go of my stupid assumption that made me believe (erroneously) that I would only be happy with another bookish English major. Likewise, he can go on about collecting vintage stereo cameras (for example), and I'm genuinely interested in finding out how they work and how he learned to repair them. By one standard, I'm "smarter" than he is. By a different standard, he's "smarter" than I am. But neither of those (ultimately irrelevant) standards actually says anything about who we are either as individuals or as a couple.
posted by scody at 1:40 PM on July 29, 2005 [2 favorites has favorites]

Just to be a devil's advocate here. Alot of people are preaching that everybody is smart but in their own ways. How many of you though would date somebody with an IQ below 70?

If somebody with an average IQ of 100 would not ultimately feel satisfied in a relationship with someone with an IQ of 70 (and probably vice-versa), why would you assume that somebody with an IQ of 130 or 140 would be satisfied with someone with an IQ of 105 (or vice-versa)?
posted by blueyellow at 2:00 PM on July 29, 2005

An IQ below 70 would indicate mental retardation, blueyellow, which I would venture to say is a different kettle of fish than what many of us are talking about.

More to your point, IQ is a red herring. IQ measures a certain type of reasoning, knowledge, and capacity. It says essentially nothing about artistic creativity, critical-thinking skills, or emotional intelligence, for example -- types of intelligence that I value highly, and that don't require either a college degree or a 140 IQ. I don't deny that being able to find someone engaging/stimulating means you've probably both got to be in the same general ballpark of mental capacity, but it is pointlessly reductive to suggest that IQ range is really all that directly relevant. You can have a "genius" IQ (college or not) and be totally incapable of relating empathetically to other people and rigidly inflexible in learning new things; you can be "average" (again, college or not) and be articulate, creative, and intellectually aware. The magic IQ number is irrelevant.

Or to put it another way: I happen to have a high IQ score. I can name 2 (possibly 3) exes who I'm all but certain have higher scores. Pretty much everyone I've ever dated probably has a similar or lower "score" than mine. So what? One of the guys who I'm positive has a genius IQ (and who I probably loved more intensely and deeply than anyone else so far in my life), not to mention is a brilliant writer and pretty good artist, was emotionally paralyzed in certain crucial aspects of his life. (He also couldn't read a map for a million dollars -- again, different types of smarts!) Trust me, our ability to have long conversations about literature did not, in the long run, make up for his complete inability to make major decisions in his life or in our relationship.
posted by scody at 2:25 PM on July 29, 2005

An IQ of 70 is 2 standard deviations from normal as is an IQ of 130. So it is a fair comparison. 96% of the population fall between these two points, which raises some other interesting questions...

Scody, I appreciate what you're saying. It takes a lot more to be successful in a relationship than IQ. Also that IQ has little to do with many other amazing things people are capable of. Granted and very true.

However, you are basically agreeing that you don't really want to be that far off in raw intelligence with the person you share your life with. Whether they have degrees or not, isn't the point. While it is only one factor in the composite of the person that makes them compatible or not with you, it is a factor that if it was absent you would regret significantly, just like emotional availability.
posted by blueyellow at 2:40 PM on July 29, 2005

scody, you should write an article about this. Maybe a book. Seriously, that's some of the wisest stuff I've read about "intelligence" and relationships in a long time. I hope anonymous takes it to heart.
posted by languagehat at 3:11 PM on July 29, 2005

Blueyellow, I also appreciate what you're saying, and I think we do perhaps agree in certain ways. However, I would still argue that your comparison is not accurate, regardless of the fact that a 70 IQ and a 130 IQ are both 2 standard deviations from normal. Again, 70 = mild mental retardation, described here this way:

"Approximately 85% of the mentally retarded population is in the mildly retarded category. Their IQ score ranges from 50-75, and they can often acquire academic skills up to the 6th grade level. They can become fairly self-sufficient and in some cases live independently, with community and social support."

This is just not comparable to the differences between someone with a 100 IQ and someone with a 130. Two people with those particular IQs will share far more basic living and academic skills than will two people with IQs of 70 vs. 100. In other words, 2 standard deviations in one direction result in differences that are much more significant than 2 standard deviations in the other direction.

Back more directly to Anon's question: it's entirely possible that Anon and his girlfriend have comparable IQ scores to begin with -- there's nothing about what he's describing that leads me to believe he's necessarily a genius and she's "merely" average. They could both have similar IQ scores (or she could even have a higher one!). What he's describing just sounds (to me) like different types of smarts, rather than he's smart vs. she's not. My take is really to encourage Anon to not privilege his type of smarts ("geek"/tech) so much, just as I finally stopped privileging mine (literary/intellectual). There's potentially a dramatic difference to be found in recognizing oneself simply as smart (period!) as oppsed to smarter than so-and-so.

on preview: aw, languagehat, thank you so much! I hadn't thought about writing an article, but I'm gonna consider it now!
posted by scody at 3:51 PM on July 29, 2005

Scody: Accepting rather than excluding people is definitely the path to a more fulfilling life. You articulately described your recent identity transformation. It seems that transitioning from describing who you are by your accomplishments, tastes and affiliations to who you are by your character and relationships was a very powerful experience for you. I don't know where Anon is and what he needs.. whether a new perspective on her, himself, relationships or new behaviors.. much of the different things were covered here by the different people so... I hope you find what you need and it works out Anon.
posted by blueyellow at 4:23 PM on July 29, 2005

Dump her.
posted by angry modem at 4:25 PM on July 29, 2005

[An IQ test] says essentially nothing about artistic creativity, critical-thinking skills, or emotional intelligence, for example -- types of intelligence I value highly

Of course it says nothing about most of those things, because they are not intelligence. "Intelligence" implies thinking. "Emotional intelligence" is thus an oxymoron. Creativity, too, is not intelligence, which is why we call it "creativity" and not "intelligence." Just because our brain does X doesn't mean X is "intelligence." Calling everything that the brain does "intelligence" is primarily a feel-good tactic to allow people who are not very intelligent to believe they actually are intelligent, just in a "different way" from people who really are intelligent.

Critical thinking is a skill that requires intelligence. However, intelligence is not sufficient to allow someone to think critically any more than intelligence is sufficient to allow someone to do algebra. Both are skills that must be learned, and on average, intelligent people can learn both better than not-so-intelligent people.

The real question is whether or not you're able to find each other interesting and engaging?

Now this part is true.
posted by kindall at 4:29 PM on July 29, 2005

Creativity, too, is not intelligence, which is why we call it "creativity" and not "intelligence."

You don't think it requires a type of intelligence to paint a picture, write a novel, or compose a symphony? You think Leonardo da Vinci was only being intelligent when he was sketching plans for helicopters, but not when he was painting the Mona Lisa? Interesting.
posted by scody at 5:02 PM on July 29, 2005

OTOH, it could be that it doesn't matter at all whether you understand it, so long as he is managing to work out some problem by yammering on about it. It's a weird geek thought process: babble about a problem and it fixes itself.

Well, true enough. But this shouldn't be mistaken by the talker for actual conversation, agreed? For me, when I realize that I've flipped over into "working out a problem" mode, I follow it with an acknowledgement of such and "okay if I go on and on for a minute? 'Cause my brain just went into problem-solving mode and I have to think this through out loud."
posted by desuetude at 5:36 PM on July 29, 2005

Scody, painting beautifully, writing a novel and composing a symphony require both intelligence and creativity. So yes, those things do require intelligence, that's not to say that intelligence and creativity are the same thing.

At any rate, as kindall pointed out, it is a matter of semantics. The way he uses intelligence it seems to mean the ability to learn new things and new patterns of behavior. I'd say that is different from creativity, which is the innate or learned behavior of putting many pieces of information or impulses together and coming up with some new composite.
posted by lorrer at 6:39 PM on July 29, 2005

... which is again different from the accumulation of knowledge, though the ability to learn new facts might be related to learning new behaviors / patterns of thought, so that knowledge can reflect intelligence... which may be why they are so frequently confused...
posted by lorrer at 6:42 PM on July 29, 2005

Relating to my earlier comment:


posted by Doohickie at 2:58 PM on July 30, 2005

Giving credit where credit is due.
posted by Doohickie at 2:59 PM on July 30, 2005