Or perhaps I should just butt out

October 12, 2008 10:44 AM

How can I help my guy friends to meet nice women?

My husband and I, both engineers, happen to have a disproportionately male group of friends, largely because of where we went to school and the fields we're in. While a couple of these friends have met nice women and gotten married, lately we've found that under certain circumstances (read: drunk) the single ones approaching their late twenties will admit they're worried about meeting women -- at all. It seems that once we left college, they became increasingly difficult to find (indeed, all my close female friends are from school, but I'm okay with that).

I think my guy friends are all brilliant, good-natured, well-educated and interesting men who have a lot to offer, but also incredibly shy around new people. Is there anything can I do to help them out? Or should I just let them be and work it out themselves?

posted by universal_qlc to human relations (23 comments total)

Well hell, I could post a follow up as how do the female friends of the wife and I meet nice guys?

Eventually they'll have to work things out themselves, but it won't hurt to invite them to functions where they will feel more at ease.
posted by iamabot at 10:55 AM on October 12, 2008

Probably the best thing you could do is host social events where the ratio of single men to single women is roughly matched.
posted by grouse at 10:59 AM on October 12, 2008

Throw a party for all your single friends. Don't SAY it's for all your single friends, but make sure the majority of the guest list is single people.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:59 AM on October 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

You can always invite them along to fun, geeky social events--anything from bowling to niche events like steampunk picnics (which seem to be increasingly common--you'd think the airship pirates would be busy pirating!). Anything that's not specifically geared towards finding mates should be good. In my experience, going with single, shy-guy friends to bars is painful because there's just too much pressure to meet someone and not be themselves.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:02 AM on October 12, 2008

Want to help your friends meet new and interesting (to them at least) people of either sex? Encourage them to get committed to what they're passionate about (take courses, join clubs, volunteer). As long as they're "on the hunt", they're not going to make a favorable impression on anyone worth knowing.
posted by philip-random at 11:03 AM on October 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

As a person in a similar situation as your male friends... If I may offer an opinon?

I have many friends who think I'm a hoot and they keep an eye out for me. Years later, I think I've identified a pattern. Their standards are impossibly high. They'll offer, "A woman I work with is nice." Then it turns into, "I'm trying to figure out a way to bring up the subject. She's single by the way." And finally into, "She did something I didn't like. I don't think her personality is good for you."

Just an opinion.
posted by CarlRossi at 11:30 AM on October 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

Expanding one's social network becomes harder and harder. I'm going through a bit of that myelf, having moved to a new city recently. I second everyone who suggests that you should host more parties, and encourage friends to host more parties too. Meeting someone is really a numbers game, in the end. Make sure these guys aren't staying at home and watching DVDs on their own on a regular basis.
posted by namesarehard at 11:39 AM on October 12, 2008

Social gatherings and alcohol help to increase the chance of meeting women and inhibit shyness, so that's good. But there's more you can do if you want to be more involved... your critical woman's-eye-view can motivate them to make positive lifestyle changes that will make them more confident and attractive:

- Encourage them to get fit
- Fashion intervention
- Online personals are an inexhaustible source of women, most of whom will be terrible matches for your friends. But it's important to get out there and try, try, try. It will be a painful process for a shy person; you can help to coach them through it.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:45 AM on October 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

First off, obviously, make sure they're looking to meet people. For introverts there can be a big wide chasm between "huh it's harder to meet women/men" and "I am interested in meeting a woman/man now" and nudging will be unhelpful.

The basic thing of course is to have get-togethers that include single people [and not just like one single female friend for one single male friend or whatever their preferences are] and some sort of activity where people can interact but are not FORCED to interact. If I can put this nicely: if you are sort of clumsy socially, you will not be helping another socially clumsy person feel less awkward, so keep that in mind. Than again a lot of single people can sometimes use buddies to go to social things with so maybe you or your partner could just sort of keep an eye out for such occasions and not always be like "Hey friend do you want to go with us-as-a-couple to this event?" and go one on one.

See if you can get a read on your friend. Do they just want to meet a lot of people? Are they looking for a special someone? Are they comfortable around their preferred dating gender generally or generally not? All of these will help you decide what your move is. I had a female friend who was sort of ootchy to get hooked up. Literally sent emails to her friends "do you know anyone???" I introduced her to a few people, some like her, some not like her. I stopped doing it because she was just, I don't know, not fussy but negative about the whole thing. If she didn't like the guy -- hey it happens -- she'd be sort of sneery about him and I thought that wasn't a good thing to send my other friend into and it made me feel not inclined to help. Similarly I had another friend who was basically only interested in women he saw immediate long-term potential in and wasn't interested in meeting someone who didn't meet his laundry list of specifics. I wished him luck but basically couldn't help him find someone. If your friend would like your assistance, make it an interactive thing "Hey did you like that woman from the party last week, we may be going to the pumpkin festival with her..."

One thing that I found was a great litmus test when I was single and not realy looking too hard was cruising dating sites with well-meaning friends of mine. We'd just look around, not be looking for SOMEONE FOR JESS TO DATE but I could give them an idea of people I thought were interesting and why I thought that. Some friends I basically said (in a nice way) "Please do not introduce me to people you think I'd like, you seem to have no idea what sort of people I'd like"

Another thing that I think helps generally is just understand that single people can always use a lot of random good energy heading their way. If I know a friend is single and looking, and I like that friend a lot, I try hard to make a point to mention that. Not just to available singles, but just generally (when it comes up of course). You never know who is going to know someone, but like here, just knowing that universal_qlc knows some brilliant well-educated men who may be engineering oriented (I love engineers!) is something to keep in mind...
posted by jessamyn at 11:46 AM on October 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Engineers are notoriously bad dates. Stereotypically, they aren't too polite, they are cheap, they don't know how to have fun, they're selfish, they can't talk about normal things... it goes on and on (thanks to my engineer S.O. for help making this list.)

Encourage your friends to be conscious of these stereotypes.
posted by k8t at 1:09 PM on October 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

2nding philip-random.

The line that jumped out to me was

lately we've found that under certain circumstances (read: drunk) the single ones approaching their late twenties will admit they're worried about meeting women -- at all.

I know people who might have said this, and this is by far their biggest problem. It sounds pathetically desperate, and that's the worst handicap to have in the dating world. As long as they view meeting women as an obstacle to be overcome, they'll struggle with it. When they let go and let it happen, it will happen. Yeah, it sounds totally fuckin cheesy, but the best thing for them to do is to just live in the moment, love themselves, and pursue their own direction in life with passion.

And talk to people all the time. Most people walk past opportunities for friendship and romance dozens of times per day.


Or they can buy a woman on the internet.
posted by mpls2 at 1:13 PM on October 12, 2008

If someone is introverted, throwing them into a huge group of people, even if they know some of them and everyone is introverted, will not help things, or it will not allow these people to be showcased as the dry, sardonic, witty, intelligent, shy, charming fellows you know them as. So I do not recommend the party.

What I do recommend is a more micro attempt. If you are going to, say, a movie or a lecture or a performance or a museum or a gallery opening or to play Scrabble at the pub, invite one of the introverted guys and one of the gals you are thinking of to come with. Make it totally casual and make it seem like you have invited other people, too, so it doesn't broadcast DOUBLE DATE. People involved in shared common interest = good and easy scenario.
posted by micawber at 2:28 PM on October 12, 2008

I used to have a few trivial pursuit cards in my pocket when going out alone in a new city because I felt the initial "hello, ..." to be the toughest. I later found out those cards are like crack to men and women at a bar. you start chatting with someone about some question you can't figure out -the bartender will do- and folks from left and right will chime in and before you know it you know a bunch of nice people and you're all drinking together. it's this initial huh, so this is how it works they need to figure out. to put it in mathematical terms: this is an equation with two unknowns to them. you need to give them more information to help them solve it.

again, the issue for them is probably not so much running into women but having a reason (or excuse) to talk to them. they are too shy to initiate contact. showing them how you start conversations might also help. that party you should throw? make it in a bar. take everyone out. "hey, let's have drinks at .. sat night." be a bunch of happy people who run into other people. you can't help but run into nice folks and you should make a point of introducing them to your group, as should everyone else. demonstrate how to be social, lay out the plan for them to see.

and whatever you do, don't preach. that would be so obnoxious. you're doing it best when they don't even notice what this is all about. those encounters above should be nothing more than chance encounters.

also meetup.com is great
posted by krautland at 3:19 PM on October 12, 2008 [4 favorites]

seconding mpls2 and others above re: they just need to network a LOT and as part of their behaviour, not as a 'project', but that also means they have to want to do that themselves, too.

And seconding k8t about engineers: they'll also need to clean themselves up physically and become concious of their own behaviours.

Otherwise they will really be stuck with dating sites or their friends' efforts and opinions rather than their own. They have to want to network, you can take them to a party but you cant make them party.
posted by jak68 at 3:29 PM on October 12, 2008

Get them to dress better if they don't already.
Just kidding... sort of (this has actually helped one of my guy friends at least get some drunken make-outs, I think, but still no GF in the years we've been friends).

Really, though, if you don't yourself have many single female friends or acquaintances, this can be really hard. I have more male friends than female. ALL of my female friends are in committed relationships, and ALL of my male friends are single. It's kind of bizarre.

I've noticed that a lot of my guy friends talk to me like a normal person, possibly because they know I'm with their friend, my boyfriend, and am therefore off limits, but they treat other women weirdly. They're kind of awkward and they brag lamely, and just say things generally off-putting to many women... and they lie!
If this happens with your guys, you can talk to them about how not to treat women like aliens. It hasn't worked yet for me, but that's the main thing I've noticed about my terminally single male friends is that they just don't know how to interact with women, even in normal small-talk.
posted by fructose at 6:02 PM on October 12, 2008

If they ask for your "help" throw some parties. Otherwise, let it alone.
posted by phrontist at 6:51 PM on October 12, 2008

Well, I'm single and I'm into geeks, so if any of them are going to be in NYC...

...Wait, did I say that out loud?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:05 PM on October 12, 2008

Hahaha I was just about to say the same thing about Ottawa....

See, it's not impossible!
posted by aclevername at 12:57 AM on October 13, 2008

Ignore any advice you just read that included the idea "as soon as they stop looking, it will happen." That's bullshit.

As somebody who has been alone for 10 years, I can tell you, you have to try before it will happen.
posted by Cardinal Fang! at 1:55 AM on October 13, 2008 [1 favorite]

Well, there's a lot of good advice here about making not-obvious-about-intent yet interesting and low-key opportunities based on stuff my friends like to gently nudge them into meeting new people, period. Honestly, a lot of them do that already with their hobbies, but their hobbies also tend to be disproportionately male. I had also been wary of bars for the reason the PhoBWanKenobi pointed out, but krautland makes a good suggestion about just making it a large group outing, and lessening the pressure on them.

However, there are a couple things I'd like to clarify:

(1) Meeting women is NOT a "project" for my friends; they are generally occupied with work and hobbies - they simply acknowledge when their defenses are down that at some point, they would like to meet a nice girl and they aren't quite sure how to do that, and that it worries them. I do not see how this can be construed as "pathetically desperate" rather than an accurate reflection of their situation. Think about it - their fields (except possibly software) are male-dominated. Their friends are mostly male. They don't like bars. They're shy around new people. The suggestion that they're desperate is offensive - it presumes that they have nothing else in their lives going for them, but that isn't the case. They're athletes (in solo sports), musicians, and inventors in addition to being engineers and PhDs. And they also happen to be shy.

(2) They are not "on the hunt," as though women were some sort of prey for them. If that were the case, they'd be out trying to meet those girls and probably doing it poorly. As stated in the original question, they aren't out doing that. So lay off that assumption.

(3) They would find the idea of "buying a woman" off the internet abhorrent. I don't even see why that might be funny.

(4) Nowhere in the question do I state that my friends are slovenly, tactless, out of shape, or utterly unfashionable. And they aren't any of these things, either.

I realize now that I should have simply phrased this question as "Hey, I have a lot of shy guy friends who are interested in meeting women. How do I help them do that?" rather than mentioning engineering at all - to me, mentioning our fields of work just seemed like an explanation for why we have lots of male friends and not a lot of female ones for me to set them up with (because well, statistically, that's how it is).

I know the assumptions above were brought up from a place of helpfulness (except possibly the woman off the internet one), but they're pretty much all just plain untrue - and if that's the initial response they can expect a third of the time when they answer the question, "what do you do?", then quite frankly, I'd be awfully shy, too.
posted by universal_qlc at 6:48 AM on October 13, 2008

...I gave a flip answer first, but it sounds like you're dissatisfied with the serious answers you've gotten, so let me try:

It sounds like the biggest obstacle they have is just a combination of their own being-shy-ness, and some bad luck -- the former, only they can overcome, and the latter, that just plain can't be helped. (And I say this as someone else who has ALSO been a little shy in the past, and who ALSO has interests that tend to be on the quirky side and also skew towards there not being many single eye-candy specimens about in my particular flavor. ) There's nothing a friend can do to help overcome that particular combination of circumstances, really.

The big thing you CAN do, though, is create alternate opportunities for them to meet people by holding parties yourself, or organizing group outings, or....I met my last SO this way, through a mutual friend who was out for a drink with him and saw me passing by the bar they were at and waved me inside. They'll have met people they wouldn't have met otherwise, and they already have at least one thing in common (you), so that may help overcome some shyness.

But really, that's the only thing I can think a friend can try to do for them that would work.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:01 AM on October 13, 2008

Upon review, I agree with micawber and krautland.

Also, a regular "pub quiz team" is a great social mixer.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:09 AM on October 13, 2008

They need to go where the women are at -- yoga classes, pottery classes, wine-tasting classes, art tours, church/synagogue, volunteering, etc. These are the places where single women are told to go to meet men; ergo these places generally have a very favorable female/male ratio.

They also need to increase their acquaintance with older women, who ALWAYS know some nice girl who is having trouble meeting men.

Also, I am NOT trying to slam on geeks/SF guys or anything (I married one) and know a lot of physics/engineering types. There IS, however, a tendency for these guys to have a rather NARROW vision of what an approachable dateable woman looks like. I do not know where it comes from, but a lot of them feel that a woman needs to be; slender, pretty, child-free, young, long-haired, WHATEVER. I don't know WHERE it comes from, but a lot of said friends have ruled out wonderful girls because they have kids, weigh a bit too much, are older than they are, etc., and they feel that they would be SETTLING. I ask you.
posted by jfwlucy at 4:16 PM on October 13, 2008