Questions about 12-step
May 30, 2012 6:19 AM Subscribe
I went to my first ever 12-step anonymous help group meeting. (For the moment, I won't say which, it's irrelevant.) I had a few questions I'm hoping those with experience can help me with.
One of my first questions was how I can get over the "ick" factor over the clearly Christian framework (I'm an agnostic/atheist), but then found these excellent AskMes, so I think I'm good there. But I still do wonder about the opening and closing prayers: would it be rude if I didn't join the circle? Or didn't repeat the prayer? I don't wish to be out of step, or appear surly/uncooperative/haughty.
Second, what is the proper etiquette for when you bump into someone in the program in public when you or s/he is with friends? Is it a breach of policy (or just plain rude) to acknowledge them? Or do you acknowledge them and make up some story about how you know them?
Third, the collections basket. Do some people always contribute, while some others never do? I saw a few people almost swat at it, like they wanted nothing to do with it. Are these guys essentially free-loading?
Finally, how do you deal with cross-addictions (think that's the right term)? For instance, I've never had a problem with alcohol, but after the intense experience of my first meeting, I felt like I needed a beer. Is that something you can talk about with the group?
Thank you mefites for answering these questions I'd be a bit embarrassed to ask the group.
One of my first questions was how I can get over the "ick" factor over the clearly Christian framework (I'm an agnostic/atheist), but then found these excellent AskMes, so I think I'm good there. But I still do wonder about the opening and closing prayers: would it be rude if I didn't join the circle? Or didn't repeat the prayer? I don't wish to be out of step, or appear surly/uncooperative/haughty.
Second, what is the proper etiquette for when you bump into someone in the program in public when you or s/he is with friends? Is it a breach of policy (or just plain rude) to acknowledge them? Or do you acknowledge them and make up some story about how you know them?
Third, the collections basket. Do some people always contribute, while some others never do? I saw a few people almost swat at it, like they wanted nothing to do with it. Are these guys essentially free-loading?
Finally, how do you deal with cross-addictions (think that's the right term)? For instance, I've never had a problem with alcohol, but after the intense experience of my first meeting, I felt like I needed a beer. Is that something you can talk about with the group?
Thank you mefites for answering these questions I'd be a bit embarrassed to ask the group.
There are 12-step meetings for athiests and agnostics, you might look into one in your area.
Don't judge too harshly those who don't contribute. It's cool to do so, it keeps the lights on, but some folks do a meeting a day and perhaps they contribute once per month. Don't worry about what others do, do what feels right to you.
If you run into someone outside of a meeting. Smile and nod at them. They may or may not remember you from the meeting, if they do they may say hi, if not, that's cool too.
As for joining in the prayer, do as you feel comfortable. If it really rankles, then skip it, or omit the mention of a diety. (I do this all the time in all kinds of weird situations.)
As for cross-addictions, for those new to the 12-step world, reliving using episodes can be a trigger, be aware of this and be prepared to have something to do after the meeting. Perhaps go to the gym, or take a long reflective walk, or something where you're doing something positive. One thing is to join some of the others for a coffee and discussion afterwards. Fellowship can be great and you can make some new friends.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:42 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Don't judge too harshly those who don't contribute. It's cool to do so, it keeps the lights on, but some folks do a meeting a day and perhaps they contribute once per month. Don't worry about what others do, do what feels right to you.
If you run into someone outside of a meeting. Smile and nod at them. They may or may not remember you from the meeting, if they do they may say hi, if not, that's cool too.
As for joining in the prayer, do as you feel comfortable. If it really rankles, then skip it, or omit the mention of a diety. (I do this all the time in all kinds of weird situations.)
As for cross-addictions, for those new to the 12-step world, reliving using episodes can be a trigger, be aware of this and be prepared to have something to do after the meeting. Perhaps go to the gym, or take a long reflective walk, or something where you're doing something positive. One thing is to join some of the others for a coffee and discussion afterwards. Fellowship can be great and you can make some new friends.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:42 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
You don't have to join the circle. I don't when I have a cold or am feeling particularly twitchy. Otherwise, I join the circle but say a non-Christian prayer to myself.
When you see someone from the program outside, you can acknowledge them. Usually people won't ask how you know them, but if they do "we have mutual friends" is both true and protective of anonymity.
Some people can't contribute. I don't worry about what others do or don't put in the basket, I just worry about what I put in it.
Sure, you can talk about wanting a beer. Some might disagree, but if a meeting makes you want to do something you know wouldn't be good, you probably need to talk about it, inside or outside of a meeting.
Relax. People in meetings had to teach me all sorts of things, like that it was inappropriate to throw coffee mugs at peoples' heads. Questions are expected from newcomers and I doubt you can come up with anything they haven't heard before. If you get a sponsor, they can help you with these kinds of things, too.
posted by QIbHom at 6:46 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
When you see someone from the program outside, you can acknowledge them. Usually people won't ask how you know them, but if they do "we have mutual friends" is both true and protective of anonymity.
Some people can't contribute. I don't worry about what others do or don't put in the basket, I just worry about what I put in it.
Sure, you can talk about wanting a beer. Some might disagree, but if a meeting makes you want to do something you know wouldn't be good, you probably need to talk about it, inside or outside of a meeting.
Relax. People in meetings had to teach me all sorts of things, like that it was inappropriate to throw coffee mugs at peoples' heads. Questions are expected from newcomers and I doubt you can come up with anything they haven't heard before. If you get a sponsor, they can help you with these kinds of things, too.
posted by QIbHom at 6:46 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
The 12 step process is not supposed to be Christian only based. They want you to identify a higher power, but that higher power can be anything...God, Buddha, Wiccan, even just the universe. However, each group will tend to take on its own personality, usually based on where they meet. So a group meeting in a church tends to be believers and will all tend to embrace God as their higher power. Some groups who meet in churches are way more open to alternative higher powers....some aren't.
I would advise you to join the circle during prayers, but you don't have to say anything. I think it would be somewhat awkward to the group dynamics if you didn't stand in the circle. You also don't have to donate to the collection if you don't want, especially if you are new to the group. The groups I attended used the collection to buy coffee and books for newcomers as well as made a donation to the church for the use of the building (they met in what used to be the rectory, not the main building), so if the bank account was low and it was time to buy some supplies they would point that out and people would donate more. Once again, each group takes on its own "personality" so there is no absolute right or wrong way to do it.
I wouldn't share your desire to drink a beer until you have become more accustomed to the group and learned more about what is appropriate and what's not. At some point you will choose a sponsor if you continue in the program, and that person is there to mentor and guide you so they would be someone you could ask those types of questions to. (I guess the sponsor part depends on what type of 12 step program you are doing, but I think all of them use the sponsor model).
Just my thoughts and opinions...YMMV. Each experience is different. Good luck on your journey!
posted by MultiFaceted at 6:53 AM on May 30, 2012
I would advise you to join the circle during prayers, but you don't have to say anything. I think it would be somewhat awkward to the group dynamics if you didn't stand in the circle. You also don't have to donate to the collection if you don't want, especially if you are new to the group. The groups I attended used the collection to buy coffee and books for newcomers as well as made a donation to the church for the use of the building (they met in what used to be the rectory, not the main building), so if the bank account was low and it was time to buy some supplies they would point that out and people would donate more. Once again, each group takes on its own "personality" so there is no absolute right or wrong way to do it.
I wouldn't share your desire to drink a beer until you have become more accustomed to the group and learned more about what is appropriate and what's not. At some point you will choose a sponsor if you continue in the program, and that person is there to mentor and guide you so they would be someone you could ask those types of questions to. (I guess the sponsor part depends on what type of 12 step program you are doing, but I think all of them use the sponsor model).
Just my thoughts and opinions...YMMV. Each experience is different. Good luck on your journey!
posted by MultiFaceted at 6:53 AM on May 30, 2012
Sometimes, which meeting you went to IS relevant . . . some meetings attract more people who are attending just to fulfill court orders, and perhaps those people will have different feelings towards the donation basket than others . . .
It's posed in Christian framework because that was the point of reference for it's founder. It doesn't matter. The steps -- find a god of your own choosing -- the purpose is to get you to find *hope*, to get you to be accustomed to having hope, to get you to adopt a perspective of optimism and gratitude, because life feels better that way. If I were you, I would stand and hold hands during the prayers (silently is fine) and think hopeful thoughts about the other people in the circle. Tell yourself it's group chanting or some kind of rally or whatever -- the purpose is to join together with positivity.
Contribute to the collections basket if you are able and feel moved to do so. If you have plenty of money, it's a nice thing to do. If you are broke but the messages & people at a specific meeting have saved your ass, try to give a dollar if you can spare it. In my years in meetings, I never heard anyone take note of who did or did not contribute, nor any judgement passed one anyone for that reason.
The official attitude of AA & NA is that any form of alcohol or mood-altering substances are subject to being used addictively. So if your 'drug of choice' was [A], you would still abstain from [b, c, d] because you would eventually use them to escape your feelings. Wanting to use is absolutely an appropriate topic at a meeting.
Best of luck and feel free to memail me if you have any more questions . . .
posted by MeiraV at 6:55 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's posed in Christian framework because that was the point of reference for it's founder. It doesn't matter. The steps -- find a god of your own choosing -- the purpose is to get you to find *hope*, to get you to be accustomed to having hope, to get you to adopt a perspective of optimism and gratitude, because life feels better that way. If I were you, I would stand and hold hands during the prayers (silently is fine) and think hopeful thoughts about the other people in the circle. Tell yourself it's group chanting or some kind of rally or whatever -- the purpose is to join together with positivity.
Contribute to the collections basket if you are able and feel moved to do so. If you have plenty of money, it's a nice thing to do. If you are broke but the messages & people at a specific meeting have saved your ass, try to give a dollar if you can spare it. In my years in meetings, I never heard anyone take note of who did or did not contribute, nor any judgement passed one anyone for that reason.
The official attitude of AA & NA is that any form of alcohol or mood-altering substances are subject to being used addictively. So if your 'drug of choice' was [A], you would still abstain from [b, c, d] because you would eventually use them to escape your feelings. Wanting to use is absolutely an appropriate topic at a meeting.
Best of luck and feel free to memail me if you have any more questions . . .
posted by MeiraV at 6:55 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
1. I've never experienced anyone not joining the prayer (aside: opening prayer?) at the end. It would be a little weird to see it. Every group is a little different, so you'll have to feel this one out. If you have a group that you'll be attending regularly as opposed to bouncing around, you could just communicate that the prayer is not something you're comfortable with. Maybe leaving the room before it starts would be the simplest way to go about it. You could certainly join the circle and not repeat the prayer, if that's good enough for you (but you will have to deal with the part of you that wants to "go along" with the group, even if the group doesn't actually care).
2. Depends. Depends on how much you like them when you're at group. If there's someone that you really click with there you can say hi; if you just know them to see them you can give them a nod or just eye contact. Depending on what kind of group you go to, other 12-steppers are probably just as wary to be outed in public (it is anonymous after all) as you are. You are absolutely allowed to pretend you don't know anyone in -A, even if you've known them for 20 years, and most people get that.
3. Some people never donate. Yes, those guys are essentially free-loading. Nobody with their head on straight is going to care about that at all, so if for whatever reason you don't want to put money in then whatever. -A is about you. If you feel like contributing is going to move you forward, then do it. You don't have to worry about people judging you or figuring that your free trial period is up.
4. Many old-timers come to a place where they see they have many different addictions, all stemming from the same central brokenness/neediness/what have you. So
a) you can definitely (for example) talk about your problems with food at a meeting for people who have a problem with alcohol. Some areas aren't big enough to support every different kind of -A group and so they'll have people from other programs hang out with a "main" group, or just have a generic 12-step program. And it's common for people to bring up other similar problems in the context of a 12-step group. As far as feeling agitated post-meeting is concerned, the advice you're getting about occupying yourself after a meeting with some kind of activity is sound.
b) If you have something you don't want to discuss with the group, usually there will be some old sage who's been around for a million years that you can talk to. My humble advice is to take advantage and pump them for all they're worth.
posted by Poppa Bear at 6:59 AM on May 30, 2012
2. Depends. Depends on how much you like them when you're at group. If there's someone that you really click with there you can say hi; if you just know them to see them you can give them a nod or just eye contact. Depending on what kind of group you go to, other 12-steppers are probably just as wary to be outed in public (it is anonymous after all) as you are. You are absolutely allowed to pretend you don't know anyone in -A, even if you've known them for 20 years, and most people get that.
3. Some people never donate. Yes, those guys are essentially free-loading. Nobody with their head on straight is going to care about that at all, so if for whatever reason you don't want to put money in then whatever. -A is about you. If you feel like contributing is going to move you forward, then do it. You don't have to worry about people judging you or figuring that your free trial period is up.
4. Many old-timers come to a place where they see they have many different addictions, all stemming from the same central brokenness/neediness/what have you. So
a) you can definitely (for example) talk about your problems with food at a meeting for people who have a problem with alcohol. Some areas aren't big enough to support every different kind of -A group and so they'll have people from other programs hang out with a "main" group, or just have a generic 12-step program. And it's common for people to bring up other similar problems in the context of a 12-step group. As far as feeling agitated post-meeting is concerned, the advice you're getting about occupying yourself after a meeting with some kind of activity is sound.
b) If you have something you don't want to discuss with the group, usually there will be some old sage who's been around for a million years that you can talk to. My humble advice is to take advantage and pump them for all they're worth.
posted by Poppa Bear at 6:59 AM on May 30, 2012
I'm going to disagree with pretty much everything Poppa Bear said.
I'm an atheist, and I join the circle but don't say the prayer unless I'm leading the meeting. The circle at the end of the meeting to me symbolises the unity of the fellowship. Once when I was leading a meeting in San Francisco one Christmas I was asked to close the meeting and usually this is with the Lord's Prayer (which we don't say in meetings in the UK) or the Serenity Prayer. Instead I asked people to join me in a chorus of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town". Otherwise, when I lead a meeting I make it clear during my talk that I'm an atheist and the only time I say the word "God"and a prayer is when I have to close the meeting because if I didn't start the Serenity Prayer with "God... grant me the Serenity..." we'd be standing there forever waiting for me to begin.
If I meet someone outside a meeting, if they're alone, I'll say Hi. If they're with someone I don't know, I won't acknowledge them unless they speak to me first, because that could break that person's anonymity, with someone asking "Who's that? Where do you know her from?". I've had people come up to me and talk about AA when I've been with colleagues from work and I've cut them off quickly and next time I've seen them made it quite clear that my anonymity should not be broken by anyone but me.
There are no dues or fees, and people contribute what they can.
If the meeting is a 'closed' meeting, then it's limited to people who have a problem with whatever that particular meeting is about. So it's definitely NOT okay to discuss other addictions in a closed meeting, it'll piss people off, although there'll usually be someone you can talk to after the meeting, and many of us are cross-addicted. Go for coffee with people, make connections, and keep yourself busy doing things that are unrelated to your addiction. The early days are difficult, and it's important to stay occupied and not spend too much time alone.
Good luck.
posted by essexjan at 7:24 AM on May 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
I'm an atheist, and I join the circle but don't say the prayer unless I'm leading the meeting. The circle at the end of the meeting to me symbolises the unity of the fellowship. Once when I was leading a meeting in San Francisco one Christmas I was asked to close the meeting and usually this is with the Lord's Prayer (which we don't say in meetings in the UK) or the Serenity Prayer. Instead I asked people to join me in a chorus of "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town". Otherwise, when I lead a meeting I make it clear during my talk that I'm an atheist and the only time I say the word "God"and a prayer is when I have to close the meeting because if I didn't start the Serenity Prayer with "God... grant me the Serenity..." we'd be standing there forever waiting for me to begin.
If I meet someone outside a meeting, if they're alone, I'll say Hi. If they're with someone I don't know, I won't acknowledge them unless they speak to me first, because that could break that person's anonymity, with someone asking "Who's that? Where do you know her from?". I've had people come up to me and talk about AA when I've been with colleagues from work and I've cut them off quickly and next time I've seen them made it quite clear that my anonymity should not be broken by anyone but me.
There are no dues or fees, and people contribute what they can.
If the meeting is a 'closed' meeting, then it's limited to people who have a problem with whatever that particular meeting is about. So it's definitely NOT okay to discuss other addictions in a closed meeting, it'll piss people off, although there'll usually be someone you can talk to after the meeting, and many of us are cross-addicted. Go for coffee with people, make connections, and keep yourself busy doing things that are unrelated to your addiction. The early days are difficult, and it's important to stay occupied and not spend too much time alone.
Good luck.
posted by essexjan at 7:24 AM on May 30, 2012 [5 favorites]
If you are saying or hearing The Lord's Prayer and you are not Christian and even if you are totally atheist, there is still wisdom contained therein. Perhaps join hands to participate in the power of the group and stay silent during the prayer but listen for some of the universal wisdom therein.
Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
OK, pretty much all religious.
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Religious but the concept that the base teaching of the church - love- be practiced on earth has value beyond religion.
Give us this day our daily bread,
It says this day, not tomorrow, not a cache for the future, but now. Living in the now is what anyone who seeks any measure of serenity in their life must learn how to do. Hearing that line is a reminder of its importance.
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
To me this is the most important line in the prayer and perhaps the entire Bible, religion etc. We must forgive to move on. Forgiving others is the key to a happy life. Anyone who holds onto past harms against them is doomed to have those harms repeated each time they relive them, feel the anger, the regret, etc. Hearing this line reminds us of the universal importance of forgiveness, an importance that transcends any religion.
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
That pretty much is what these programs are all about.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
OK, it starts with all religion and closes with it too, but remember their is wisdom beyond religion in the middle.
posted by caddis at 7:33 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
OK, pretty much all religious.
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Religious but the concept that the base teaching of the church - love- be practiced on earth has value beyond religion.
Give us this day our daily bread,
It says this day, not tomorrow, not a cache for the future, but now. Living in the now is what anyone who seeks any measure of serenity in their life must learn how to do. Hearing that line is a reminder of its importance.
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
To me this is the most important line in the prayer and perhaps the entire Bible, religion etc. We must forgive to move on. Forgiving others is the key to a happy life. Anyone who holds onto past harms against them is doomed to have those harms repeated each time they relive them, feel the anger, the regret, etc. Hearing this line reminds us of the universal importance of forgiveness, an importance that transcends any religion.
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
That pretty much is what these programs are all about.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.
OK, it starts with all religion and closes with it too, but remember their is wisdom beyond religion in the middle.
posted by caddis at 7:33 AM on May 30, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm an atheist. My group only says the Serenity Prayer, and I do say it. You certainly don't have to. I found that I had more trouble with the religious aspect when I was new to the program, but as time has passed I've found it so helpful despite my lack of religious belief that I don't even pay much attention to that stuff anymore.
As far as the donating goes, I'm one of those people who never has cash so most times I don't contribute, but every so often will bring in a $20 to cover me for a while. So don't judge people who don't put their dollar in; they may have some other routine or just not had cash that day, or maybe they don't contribute. $1 isn't going to make or break the group and, after all, there are no dues or fees and that money is completely voluntary.
I've seen people from my group out and about and I say hello. This too will get less weird as time passes.
In my experience you can talk about essentially whatever you want in a meeting as long as it relates to your own troubles and isn't focused on gossiping about someone else. And, if you aren't sure, you can not say anything at all. Every group is a little different, and you are perfectly free to attend as many meetings as you want until you feel comfortable with speaking out. I've known people in my meetings for years who have virtually never shared in a meeting, and they are still considered valuable members of the group.
posted by something something at 7:49 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
As far as the donating goes, I'm one of those people who never has cash so most times I don't contribute, but every so often will bring in a $20 to cover me for a while. So don't judge people who don't put their dollar in; they may have some other routine or just not had cash that day, or maybe they don't contribute. $1 isn't going to make or break the group and, after all, there are no dues or fees and that money is completely voluntary.
I've seen people from my group out and about and I say hello. This too will get less weird as time passes.
In my experience you can talk about essentially whatever you want in a meeting as long as it relates to your own troubles and isn't focused on gossiping about someone else. And, if you aren't sure, you can not say anything at all. Every group is a little different, and you are perfectly free to attend as many meetings as you want until you feel comfortable with speaking out. I've known people in my meetings for years who have virtually never shared in a meeting, and they are still considered valuable members of the group.
posted by something something at 7:49 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
From a MeFite who would prefer to remain anonymous:
Hey, these are really great questions. Some of us would love to share our experiences with you, but we can't do that in this forum, because we treasure our privacy and anonymity, and don't want that stuff tied to our Metafilter accounts and online lives. If you contact the moderators here, they'd be happy to update this post with an anonymous email address of your own that you can check, we'd happily make contact.posted by jessamyn at 7:50 AM on May 30, 2012
Here's the bottom line: The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop (drinking, eating, smoking). If you have a problem with Twinkies, you can go to an AA meeting and talk about your issue with Twinkies. I disagree with essexjan that it's "definitely not OK to discuss other addictions at an AA meeting." At meetings I attend it's a common occurrence.
There are always going to be people who are miserable, judgmental and elitist in any group; there are always going to be people who are supportive and understanding . . . AA (or any 12-step program) is a fairly representative cross-section of society. Find the people you like and whose sobriety/abstinence/higher power you respect and would like to emulate.
Screw everyone else. It's about you, not what others in group(s) think of you. Do what you want, and those you respect (i.e., sponsors, spiritual advisors) will/should guide you and gently (or strongly) suggest a different approach when warranted. We're all ther for the same reason.
Most of all--Keep Coming . . .
posted by eggman at 8:23 AM on May 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
There are always going to be people who are miserable, judgmental and elitist in any group; there are always going to be people who are supportive and understanding . . . AA (or any 12-step program) is a fairly representative cross-section of society. Find the people you like and whose sobriety/abstinence/higher power you respect and would like to emulate.
Screw everyone else. It's about you, not what others in group(s) think of you. Do what you want, and those you respect (i.e., sponsors, spiritual advisors) will/should guide you and gently (or strongly) suggest a different approach when warranted. We're all ther for the same reason.
Most of all--Keep Coming . . .
posted by eggman at 8:23 AM on May 30, 2012 [3 favorites]
Not to derail, but it is really not okay in a closed AA meeting to discuss other addictions. There are clear directions on this from the AA General Service Office.
posted by essexjan at 8:39 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by essexjan at 8:39 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
A couple of additions to what others have said. As a long time twelve stepper I find that people who are overtly religious are the exception rather than the rule. In the groups I attend the bottom line is tolerance. The operant phrase is "take what you need and leave the rest." People will respect your desire to do just that. Prayers are usually a metaphor for a connection to a higher power rather that a prayer to any specific diety.
I have to take exception with the post that said that meetings in churches are more overtly religious than those elsewhere. Meetings happen in churches for the most part because that is where the cheap space is.
Many people are sensitive about their anonymity. As a newcomer I would wait for someone to acknowledge you first when you are in public..
Feel free to memail me for additional info.
posted by Xurando at 8:39 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have to take exception with the post that said that meetings in churches are more overtly religious than those elsewhere. Meetings happen in churches for the most part because that is where the cheap space is.
Many people are sensitive about their anonymity. As a newcomer I would wait for someone to acknowledge you first when you are in public..
Feel free to memail me for additional info.
posted by Xurando at 8:39 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Or do you acknowledge them and make up some story about how you know them?
I agree with Ruthless Bunny on bumping into people. "We have mutual friends" is the typical line that I've heard.
posted by jgirl at 9:05 AM on May 30, 2012
I agree with Ruthless Bunny on bumping into people. "We have mutual friends" is the typical line that I've heard.
posted by jgirl at 9:05 AM on May 30, 2012
The most important thing to remember is "Take what you want, leave the rest." If anyone, ever, tries to make you feel like you aren't doing it "right" remind them of that motto. What works for others is not necessarily what will work for you.
As an atheist, I start the Serenity Prayer with "Grant me the..." leaving out "God". It's about whatever power people want to associate with, God or otherwise. If they close with the Lord's Prayer, I just stand silently. I left the Catholic Church a long time ago, and I don't need to pretend to be a believer just to get the benefits of attending a 12-step meeting.
I remember being surprised the first time I met someone outside of a meeting and they spoke to me. I felt they were breaking the anonymity, but later realized that this is how the meetings operate - you don't say WHERE you met when you meet others outside of meetings, but it's OK to recognize that you know one another. (This is one of those things they could definitely explain better to first-timers.) If asked by others, "we have mutual friends" is a great answer.
Now, about that beer. If I understand your question right, you don't have any abuse issues with alcohol, you drink occasionally, responsibly, and your post-meeting desire for a beer was for just one beer, not to go get blotto. (And, this wasn't an AA meeting, right?) IMHO, that's not a "cross-abuse" issue. But you raised it as if you think it *might* be a cross-abuse issue - was that because you think you might also be facing a possible issue with alcohol (if so, this is for you to figure out and deal with) or because you were worried about discussing it because others in the meeting might have cross-issues with alcohol? Different meetings have different topic limits. The best way to approach this is to just ASK. Say something like: "After the last meeting I had a strong urge to go drink a beer. Is it OK to discuss that here in this meeting? If so, I'd like to talk about it, but if not then I'll find somewhere else to talk about it." Then follow the protocol for your meeting. Meetings are there to serve the people who attend, and their rules will be fixed or flexible depending on the type of people who attend, and their group's history with problems in the past.
Finally, remember: Take what you want and leave the rest. :-)
posted by jcdill at 9:10 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
As an atheist, I start the Serenity Prayer with "Grant me the..." leaving out "God". It's about whatever power people want to associate with, God or otherwise. If they close with the Lord's Prayer, I just stand silently. I left the Catholic Church a long time ago, and I don't need to pretend to be a believer just to get the benefits of attending a 12-step meeting.
I remember being surprised the first time I met someone outside of a meeting and they spoke to me. I felt they were breaking the anonymity, but later realized that this is how the meetings operate - you don't say WHERE you met when you meet others outside of meetings, but it's OK to recognize that you know one another. (This is one of those things they could definitely explain better to first-timers.) If asked by others, "we have mutual friends" is a great answer.
Now, about that beer. If I understand your question right, you don't have any abuse issues with alcohol, you drink occasionally, responsibly, and your post-meeting desire for a beer was for just one beer, not to go get blotto. (And, this wasn't an AA meeting, right?) IMHO, that's not a "cross-abuse" issue. But you raised it as if you think it *might* be a cross-abuse issue - was that because you think you might also be facing a possible issue with alcohol (if so, this is for you to figure out and deal with) or because you were worried about discussing it because others in the meeting might have cross-issues with alcohol? Different meetings have different topic limits. The best way to approach this is to just ASK. Say something like: "After the last meeting I had a strong urge to go drink a beer. Is it OK to discuss that here in this meeting? If so, I'd like to talk about it, but if not then I'll find somewhere else to talk about it." Then follow the protocol for your meeting. Meetings are there to serve the people who attend, and their rules will be fixed or flexible depending on the type of people who attend, and their group's history with problems in the past.
Finally, remember: Take what you want and leave the rest. :-)
posted by jcdill at 9:10 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
Exxexjan - That may be what AA GSO recommends, but not only does this happen all the time at meetings that I attend, I've never, ever heard someone been openly castigated for discussing drugs or any other substance.
posted by eggman at 9:33 AM on May 30, 2012
posted by eggman at 9:33 AM on May 30, 2012
We'll have to agree to differ, eggman, maybe it's a UK thing that AA meetings are not generic free-for-all open addiction meetings but largely confine themselves to dealing with alcoholism recovery.
posted by essexjan at 10:08 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by essexjan at 10:08 AM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
There's no wrong way to "do" an -A meeting, so long as you're not disrupting the group...
-A meetings are free to run themselves as they see fit so long as they don't affect -A as a whole. As such, each group can be run a little different, and when I haven't meshed well with a group, I found another.
1.I don't have to say anything in an -A meeting I don't want to. This includes the prayers or "passing" when called on to share. I used to be an atheist, so I didn't know the prayers at first, and I said nothing. I know people who are very religious Jewish people in the program who abstain from the Christian prayers.
2. There's nothing wrong with saying Hi, and asking how they are doing. The same as I would do to a distant co-worker or someone who lives in my building. There is seldom reason to bring -A into small talk, and only unstable people will be too inquisitive about how that person knows me, and where we met.
3. As mentioned up-thread, there are no dues or fees. Put in a buck or don't, it's all the same.
4. As I mentioned previously, each group is free to run themselves how they see fit, so long as they don't affect -A as a whole. Where I live, there are closed meetings where you will be asked to leave if you don't have a desire to stop doing X and It's a XA meeting. However, there are also local closed XA meetings where all types of cross addictions are discussed. The best way to determine one from the other is to pay attention to what other people are talking about, or stick to open meetings, find some people who seem to speak and act in a similar manner, and find out what meetings they go to.
posted by Debaser626 at 10:29 AM on May 30, 2012
-A meetings are free to run themselves as they see fit so long as they don't affect -A as a whole. As such, each group can be run a little different, and when I haven't meshed well with a group, I found another.
1.I don't have to say anything in an -A meeting I don't want to. This includes the prayers or "passing" when called on to share. I used to be an atheist, so I didn't know the prayers at first, and I said nothing. I know people who are very religious Jewish people in the program who abstain from the Christian prayers.
2. There's nothing wrong with saying Hi, and asking how they are doing. The same as I would do to a distant co-worker or someone who lives in my building. There is seldom reason to bring -A into small talk, and only unstable people will be too inquisitive about how that person knows me, and where we met.
3. As mentioned up-thread, there are no dues or fees. Put in a buck or don't, it's all the same.
4. As I mentioned previously, each group is free to run themselves how they see fit, so long as they don't affect -A as a whole. Where I live, there are closed meetings where you will be asked to leave if you don't have a desire to stop doing X and It's a XA meeting. However, there are also local closed XA meetings where all types of cross addictions are discussed. The best way to determine one from the other is to pay attention to what other people are talking about, or stick to open meetings, find some people who seem to speak and act in a similar manner, and find out what meetings they go to.
posted by Debaser626 at 10:29 AM on May 30, 2012
Great answers all. I spent some good time going to Al-Anon, and I'll only answer 2.
1. I joined in the Serenity prayer at the end but waffled on other prayers as I went through various perspectives on the whole religion aspect. I would have felt rude not joining the circle, though, even if I didn't want to say the prayer. The circle seems like an important symbol of mutual support.
2. It's good to be prepared with an excuse at all times, if you do encounter someone from your group while you or they or both are not alone. If someone asks "How do you know each other?," have something at the ready. In my case I had "Oh, we met at a discussion group," which is true and yet comfortably evasive. If pressed I was willing to lie further, but I was never pressed, luckily.
Keep in mind it's also not in your purview to 'out' another attendee to your partner or other very close friends, even those who know you're going to the meetings. It's hard sometimes but you can shrug and let them draw their own conclusions. It's none of their business, so you don't need to say "She's one of the people I go to Al-Anon (or whatever) with" even if your companion knows that YOU go and has already guessed.
posted by Miko at 2:44 PM on May 30, 2012
1. I joined in the Serenity prayer at the end but waffled on other prayers as I went through various perspectives on the whole religion aspect. I would have felt rude not joining the circle, though, even if I didn't want to say the prayer. The circle seems like an important symbol of mutual support.
2. It's good to be prepared with an excuse at all times, if you do encounter someone from your group while you or they or both are not alone. If someone asks "How do you know each other?," have something at the ready. In my case I had "Oh, we met at a discussion group," which is true and yet comfortably evasive. If pressed I was willing to lie further, but I was never pressed, luckily.
Keep in mind it's also not in your purview to 'out' another attendee to your partner or other very close friends, even those who know you're going to the meetings. It's hard sometimes but you can shrug and let them draw their own conclusions. It's none of their business, so you don't need to say "She's one of the people I go to Al-Anon (or whatever) with" even if your companion knows that YOU go and has already guessed.
posted by Miko at 2:44 PM on May 30, 2012
Northern Californian here.
1) If possible, I'd go to a different meeting, one that wasn't overtly Christian. I went to an AA meeting that ended with The Lord's Prayer and was shocked by it. I held hands in the circle, didn't join in in the prayer, and generally thought bad thoughts about a meeting that would be so exclusionary. Religion is one thing, but the whole Father part of it adds a layer of ick for me and a lot of people. In the Al-anon groups I go to regularly overt Christianity is considered a violation of the 6th Tradition (our groups ought never endorse an outside organization).
I am fortunate to live in a relatively non-religious area and my meetings tend towards Buddhist-lite, if anything.
2) Generally I ignore people I know from meetings unless they nod first. Or enthusiastically yell and wave to me from across the street (cringe). If we're bumping elbows on the street or something I say hi, and if people ask how I know them, it's either "friends of friends" or "oh, she's a local" or, if it's at the coffee shop, which is usually is, I'll say, "oh, we're regulars here."
3) Yes, they're freeloading. If you're living seriously hand-to-mouth, fine- skip it. But honestly, it's $2. People should help them keep the lights on. In most groups newcomers are encouraged NOT to contribute. What constitutes a newcomer is up to the newcomer, but people figure the first 5 or 6 weeks count as newcomer, in my experience.
4) Cross addictions talk is verboten in my experience. There is only one AA meeting I've gone to with any regularity, and in that one prolonged discussion of other addictions gets cut off by the secretary (with the exception of Al-anon issues. I swear, 85% of the AA shares belong in an Al-anon meeting instead). However, I doubt this strict enforcing is typical. It's a meeting with a lot of "low bottoms" (as I heard someone say), and enforcing the rules across happens there more than most, I suspect. In this particular meeting, enforcing the rules is less control freaky and more keeping the meeting safe for everyone to share.
In the NA meeting I visit once in a while, anything goes.
Now that I think about it, it seems like a hierarchy. In Al-anon you only talk about Al-anon. In AA, both alcohol and Al-anon issues seem to be fair game. In NA, drugs, alcohol, and al-anon are all fair game.
I've only visited a couple of other types of meetings with friends- SLAA, ACA, and OA- and those meetings stayed very much on their specific topics, with only passing references to and other addictions.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:48 PM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
1) If possible, I'd go to a different meeting, one that wasn't overtly Christian. I went to an AA meeting that ended with The Lord's Prayer and was shocked by it. I held hands in the circle, didn't join in in the prayer, and generally thought bad thoughts about a meeting that would be so exclusionary. Religion is one thing, but the whole Father part of it adds a layer of ick for me and a lot of people. In the Al-anon groups I go to regularly overt Christianity is considered a violation of the 6th Tradition (our groups ought never endorse an outside organization).
I am fortunate to live in a relatively non-religious area and my meetings tend towards Buddhist-lite, if anything.
2) Generally I ignore people I know from meetings unless they nod first. Or enthusiastically yell and wave to me from across the street (cringe). If we're bumping elbows on the street or something I say hi, and if people ask how I know them, it's either "friends of friends" or "oh, she's a local" or, if it's at the coffee shop, which is usually is, I'll say, "oh, we're regulars here."
3) Yes, they're freeloading. If you're living seriously hand-to-mouth, fine- skip it. But honestly, it's $2. People should help them keep the lights on. In most groups newcomers are encouraged NOT to contribute. What constitutes a newcomer is up to the newcomer, but people figure the first 5 or 6 weeks count as newcomer, in my experience.
4) Cross addictions talk is verboten in my experience. There is only one AA meeting I've gone to with any regularity, and in that one prolonged discussion of other addictions gets cut off by the secretary (with the exception of Al-anon issues. I swear, 85% of the AA shares belong in an Al-anon meeting instead). However, I doubt this strict enforcing is typical. It's a meeting with a lot of "low bottoms" (as I heard someone say), and enforcing the rules across happens there more than most, I suspect. In this particular meeting, enforcing the rules is less control freaky and more keeping the meeting safe for everyone to share.
In the NA meeting I visit once in a while, anything goes.
Now that I think about it, it seems like a hierarchy. In Al-anon you only talk about Al-anon. In AA, both alcohol and Al-anon issues seem to be fair game. In NA, drugs, alcohol, and al-anon are all fair game.
I've only visited a couple of other types of meetings with friends- SLAA, ACA, and OA- and those meetings stayed very much on their specific topics, with only passing references to and other addictions.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:48 PM on May 30, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'd just like to put in a plug here for an alternatative to 12-step programs called SMART Recovery. Highly recommended - perhaps see if there's a meeting in your area? If not, they also offer online meetings.
Good luck.
posted by acridrabbit at 1:32 PM on May 31, 2012
Good luck.
posted by acridrabbit at 1:32 PM on May 31, 2012
I have been hearing good things about one called LifeRing, too, but haven't attended any.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:36 PM on May 31, 2012
posted by small_ruminant at 4:36 PM on May 31, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:34 AM on May 30, 2012 [5 favorites]