My spouse flipped out on me and I don't know what to do
May 28, 2012 4:51 AM
My spouse flipped out on me and I don't know what to do. As a survivor of childhood abuse, I'm not appropriately calibrated and could use some advice. Thanks.
I'm a successful 40-year old, married 5 years. Husband is 10 years older. First marriage for both. I realize there is so much that goes into shaping each and every human, so I can't possibly cover it all here, but we are seemingly reasonable, functional people. Nice jobs, nice house, no major problems, etc.
Work has been demanding for me lately and I've had three conversations with him about it, along the lines of "I need to work a lot until at least the end of June...but if I do, I will get a big bonus that will change our life in X way. I don't want to work so many hours if you are NOT okay with it. How do you feel about this increased focus on work? " Always, he said, "Yay, go for it, baby!".
Friday, he got out of work early. I did not. He went to do shared leisure activity we both do. I went home, worked out, did chores, etc. He got home and took a shower...while he was showering, I stretched out on the sofa and feel deliciously asleep. Mmmm. It was awesome. He wakes me at 10 PM and asks if I'll go out to a bar to meet so and so. I was like, no, I'm in for the night, but you go ahead.
This is when he flipped. "You are a fucking loser. I'm 10 years older than you and all you do is fucking read books. I hate to think what you'll be like at my age, you fucking loser!!!" He stormed out. I've been at my girlfriend's house since then and he has not contacted me.
Admittedly, I read in my leisure time. But I have always read in my leisure time since I could read. I am not super "fun" I guess. I get up really early on "school" days to run and go to work. I'm usually tired by Friday. I make a good living, though.
I'm a successful 40-year old, married 5 years. Husband is 10 years older. First marriage for both. I realize there is so much that goes into shaping each and every human, so I can't possibly cover it all here, but we are seemingly reasonable, functional people. Nice jobs, nice house, no major problems, etc.
Work has been demanding for me lately and I've had three conversations with him about it, along the lines of "I need to work a lot until at least the end of June...but if I do, I will get a big bonus that will change our life in X way. I don't want to work so many hours if you are NOT okay with it. How do you feel about this increased focus on work? " Always, he said, "Yay, go for it, baby!".
Friday, he got out of work early. I did not. He went to do shared leisure activity we both do. I went home, worked out, did chores, etc. He got home and took a shower...while he was showering, I stretched out on the sofa and feel deliciously asleep. Mmmm. It was awesome. He wakes me at 10 PM and asks if I'll go out to a bar to meet so and so. I was like, no, I'm in for the night, but you go ahead.
This is when he flipped. "You are a fucking loser. I'm 10 years older than you and all you do is fucking read books. I hate to think what you'll be like at my age, you fucking loser!!!" He stormed out. I've been at my girlfriend's house since then and he has not contacted me.
Admittedly, I read in my leisure time. But I have always read in my leisure time since I could read. I am not super "fun" I guess. I get up really early on "school" days to run and go to work. I'm usually tired by Friday. I make a good living, though.
Assuming your description is at all accurate, that's completely out of line.
There's some major resentment bubbling under here which your partner isn't being open about: Some wild speculation follows...given that comments about age etc, I immediately suspect that what's really going on is that your partner is worried about "getting old" and wants to prove to himself that he's "still got it" by going out and "having fun" like he did when he was 20. You falling asleep on the sofa at the end of a hard week is an open challenge to that worldview, a reminder that in fact he *is* getting older. Hence the resentment: it's not about you in other words, it's about him.
Even if the above speculation is dead on, that's still no way to treat your partner.
posted by pharm at 5:00 AM on May 28, 2012
There's some major resentment bubbling under here which your partner isn't being open about: Some wild speculation follows...given that comments about age etc, I immediately suspect that what's really going on is that your partner is worried about "getting old" and wants to prove to himself that he's "still got it" by going out and "having fun" like he did when he was 20. You falling asleep on the sofa at the end of a hard week is an open challenge to that worldview, a reminder that in fact he *is* getting older. Hence the resentment: it's not about you in other words, it's about him.
Even if the above speculation is dead on, that's still no way to treat your partner.
posted by pharm at 5:00 AM on May 28, 2012
Has your relationship been completely conflict free up until now? He had one critical thing to say and you leave for a girlfriend's house? Sounds like both of you need some help with communication.
posted by karlos at 5:07 AM on May 28, 2012
posted by karlos at 5:07 AM on May 28, 2012
Well, it sounds like you are content with your lifestyle and within the relationship and he is not.
Sounds like you need to have a major conversation. They way he spoke to you of course is inappropriate but definitely sounds like it's been brewing for awhile.
You need to decide what you want to do about moving forward.
posted by bquarters at 5:08 AM on May 28, 2012
Sounds like you need to have a major conversation. They way he spoke to you of course is inappropriate but definitely sounds like it's been brewing for awhile.
You need to decide what you want to do about moving forward.
posted by bquarters at 5:08 AM on May 28, 2012
He had one critical thing to say and you leave for a girlfriend's house? Sounds like both of you need some help with communication.
He called his spouse a "fucking loser". That's not a criticism, that's astonishing, flagrant verbal abuse.
posted by endless_forms at 5:14 AM on May 28, 2012
He called his spouse a "fucking loser". That's not a criticism, that's astonishing, flagrant verbal abuse.
posted by endless_forms at 5:14 AM on May 28, 2012
There's not enough detail to make a strong comment either way. What this brought to mind immediately:
1) As a survivor of child abuse, I would first as how you handle confrontation. In my experience, individuals that have been traumatised as children often continue behaviours later in life. If the solution was to escape the abuse, they tend to avoid conflict. If the solution was to sit and endure, they often will not have appropriate boundaries in separating what is functional disagreement versus inappropriate disagreement.
In your case, the fact that you left and did not see this through to a resolution may indicate the former, though I'm certainly not a therapist and that's very high-level advice. Thus, I would ask yourself how you handle conflict with your husband -- and people in general. Avoiding conflict can exacerbate it, for if the root of the conflict is that one party does not feel their needs are being attended to, avoiding their attempts -- however unreasonable -- can certainly pour gasoline on the fire.
2) In terms of your husband, two things. I agree completely with @pharm that there's some issues under the surface on his side, probably about ageing. I think it's also more nuanced than that. Often times, people want to do things together with their partners. It's not a matter that he can go out without you -- he can -- but rather he has an image in his mind of how he wants your relationship together to be. He may have had a picture of you guys out for the night, knocking back drinks and having fun. When you interrupted that, he became angry. And it may have directly fed into @pharm's point.
On anger, anger is an unmet need. When we are angry, it is because we need or want something that we are not getting. Further, anger also emerges in the face of something we feel is unfair. So what is your husband's unmet need?
Then there's the root cause of the anger versus its expression. In terms of the root cause, I doubt he was upset just about this one evening. It sounds like a larger problem he has not been addressing within himself. Perhaps he does not know how to communicate little frustrations, thus he waits until it builds up and explodes. Quite common unfortunately.
In terms of the expression, if we take it from an objective perspective, it was insensitive and obtuse. I cannot make an estimate as to whether that was regular for him, or a bit extreme. If it is regular, that verbal abuse, than you have a different problem than if it was extreme and has not happened before. In the latter case, whilst it was ugly, I think we need to understand that people react to stress and anger in different ways.
As far as how to proceed, I think you need to ask some questions, both of yourself and him. A marriage is a balance between giving and taking, thus both of your concerns are balanced and need to be addressed. Gottman's Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work is a good start. It's not that you argue or how you argue, but how you conclude and get past the arguments. Worth a read.
Back to your background of child abuse, I should think this is a larger investigation for yourself of how you handle conflict with other people – especially in intimate relationships. Regardless of how this argument with your husband concludes, I think you would get a lot out of exploring your relationship to power with a professional.
Good luck, and be gentle on yourself and your husband.
posted by nickrussell at 5:15 AM on May 28, 2012
1) As a survivor of child abuse, I would first as how you handle confrontation. In my experience, individuals that have been traumatised as children often continue behaviours later in life. If the solution was to escape the abuse, they tend to avoid conflict. If the solution was to sit and endure, they often will not have appropriate boundaries in separating what is functional disagreement versus inappropriate disagreement.
In your case, the fact that you left and did not see this through to a resolution may indicate the former, though I'm certainly not a therapist and that's very high-level advice. Thus, I would ask yourself how you handle conflict with your husband -- and people in general. Avoiding conflict can exacerbate it, for if the root of the conflict is that one party does not feel their needs are being attended to, avoiding their attempts -- however unreasonable -- can certainly pour gasoline on the fire.
2) In terms of your husband, two things. I agree completely with @pharm that there's some issues under the surface on his side, probably about ageing. I think it's also more nuanced than that. Often times, people want to do things together with their partners. It's not a matter that he can go out without you -- he can -- but rather he has an image in his mind of how he wants your relationship together to be. He may have had a picture of you guys out for the night, knocking back drinks and having fun. When you interrupted that, he became angry. And it may have directly fed into @pharm's point.
On anger, anger is an unmet need. When we are angry, it is because we need or want something that we are not getting. Further, anger also emerges in the face of something we feel is unfair. So what is your husband's unmet need?
Then there's the root cause of the anger versus its expression. In terms of the root cause, I doubt he was upset just about this one evening. It sounds like a larger problem he has not been addressing within himself. Perhaps he does not know how to communicate little frustrations, thus he waits until it builds up and explodes. Quite common unfortunately.
In terms of the expression, if we take it from an objective perspective, it was insensitive and obtuse. I cannot make an estimate as to whether that was regular for him, or a bit extreme. If it is regular, that verbal abuse, than you have a different problem than if it was extreme and has not happened before. In the latter case, whilst it was ugly, I think we need to understand that people react to stress and anger in different ways.
As far as how to proceed, I think you need to ask some questions, both of yourself and him. A marriage is a balance between giving and taking, thus both of your concerns are balanced and need to be addressed. Gottman's Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work is a good start. It's not that you argue or how you argue, but how you conclude and get past the arguments. Worth a read.
Back to your background of child abuse, I should think this is a larger investigation for yourself of how you handle conflict with other people – especially in intimate relationships. Regardless of how this argument with your husband concludes, I think you would get a lot out of exploring your relationship to power with a professional.
Good luck, and be gentle on yourself and your husband.
posted by nickrussell at 5:15 AM on May 28, 2012
Is this the first time something like this has happened? There could be something else going on with him that you don't know about. Even though calling you a "fucking loser" is out of line, it sounds like (from your description) this is something atypical for him.
I suggest letting him cool his heels for a bit and then calling or going home and starting a very serious discussion about why he said what he did, how that's not something you'll put up with, and what's underneath it all.
posted by xingcat at 5:16 AM on May 28, 2012
I suggest letting him cool his heels for a bit and then calling or going home and starting a very serious discussion about why he said what he did, how that's not something you'll put up with, and what's underneath it all.
posted by xingcat at 5:16 AM on May 28, 2012
Umm, I don't care if you do, in fact, never go out and spend every second of your leisure time reading. Saying to a spouse you intend to remain married to "you're a fucking loser" is 100% completely and totally not acceptable. If my spouse spoke to me that way, ending my marriage would suddenly become a viable option on the table. Careful criticism, sure; hostile disdain, no.
If this is out of character, I'd be asking if he was drunk, is abusing drugs or is having an affair. If he maintains none of those things are going on, I'd ask why he thinks it is OK to speak to someone he loves that way. Depending on his answer and the tone of it, I'd then make decisions about what to do next, ranging from tearful reconciliation with great sex to tentative joint therapy to divorce.
In any case, I would not stand on ceremony here. He hasn't contacted you? Fine; contact him and ask "What happened Friday?" Make no assumptions and see what he says.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:19 AM on May 28, 2012
If this is out of character, I'd be asking if he was drunk, is abusing drugs or is having an affair. If he maintains none of those things are going on, I'd ask why he thinks it is OK to speak to someone he loves that way. Depending on his answer and the tone of it, I'd then make decisions about what to do next, ranging from tearful reconciliation with great sex to tentative joint therapy to divorce.
In any case, I would not stand on ceremony here. He hasn't contacted you? Fine; contact him and ask "What happened Friday?" Make no assumptions and see what he says.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:19 AM on May 28, 2012
Well, that sounds like a brutal experience. I don't have a lot to offer except to say that such treatment is not okay, and was not your fault. He's got a problem of some sort and is dealing with it inappropriately and abusively. The only bright spot is that it sounds like an unusual event in your relationship, but the very bizarreness of it must have you feeling shell-shocked.
I can only speculate about where this might've come from. One possibility is that he has done something he's ashamed of and which might hurt you, and he's trying to rationalize it as having been your fault.
posted by jon1270 at 5:25 AM on May 28, 2012
I can only speculate about where this might've come from. One possibility is that he has done something he's ashamed of and which might hurt you, and he's trying to rationalize it as having been your fault.
posted by jon1270 at 5:25 AM on May 28, 2012
I agree that this is out of line. What's HIS past like? The fact that he first married at 45 and now explodes for no good reason makes me (wildly guessing) think that he's got some issues of his own. Does he come from a background full of conflict, like a substance-abusing family or something where he was encouraged to accept the status quo of not saying things as amazing and highly desirable?
I agree that it definitely reflects on him, not you. My experience with sudden blurts of harsh criticism like that is that it reflects the things that the speaker hates about himself. Example: "God, you talk too much! Nobody likes your stories. You hog conversations and interrupt all the time." -- at a time when the object of the criticism has barely said anything to tip things off. It's definitely a way to shift attention away from one's own perceived foibles.
There's no excuse for behavior like that.
posted by Madamina at 5:35 AM on May 28, 2012
I agree that it definitely reflects on him, not you. My experience with sudden blurts of harsh criticism like that is that it reflects the things that the speaker hates about himself. Example: "God, you talk too much! Nobody likes your stories. You hog conversations and interrupt all the time." -- at a time when the object of the criticism has barely said anything to tip things off. It's definitely a way to shift attention away from one's own perceived foibles.
There's no excuse for behavior like that.
posted by Madamina at 5:35 AM on May 28, 2012
I just wanted to reassure you that you were totally within your rights to respond the way you did. What he said wasn't just "inappropriate," it was the verbal equivalent of punching you in the jaw. You have every right to be safe from such behaviour in your own home and with your own spouse. It doesn't matter if he's only done it once -- for some things, once is too often. As for the idea that you should have stayed till "resolution," I wonder what that resolution is supposed to have looked like?
Maybe there's a legitimate underlying issue here, maybe there isn't, but the most urgent and important point is that he needs to understand that the way he expressed his feelings is unacceptable. You're due an apology, and I wouldn't worry too much about seeing his side of the story until you get it.
Oh, and that bonus you mentioned? Spend every penny on yourself.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 5:44 AM on May 28, 2012
Maybe there's a legitimate underlying issue here, maybe there isn't, but the most urgent and important point is that he needs to understand that the way he expressed his feelings is unacceptable. You're due an apology, and I wouldn't worry too much about seeing his side of the story until you get it.
Oh, and that bonus you mentioned? Spend every penny on yourself.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 5:44 AM on May 28, 2012
Seems like there's some missing information here. But with what you provided I can tell you that I'm almost ten years older than your husband and my wife of twenty years is ten years older than you. We have very different lifestyles and interests, but the glue has always been our children, which since you didn't mention, I'll assume you don't have.
My gut reaction is two-fold: perhaps this was an isolated event...and if so, your husband probably feels pretty bad about it and might not know how to apologize. The second reaction is that perhaps something's been stewing for awhile.
In either case, my best suggestion is to let it go this time as best you can. From what you described you haven't done anything deserving of such an rude put down...but these things can and do happen in relationships.
posted by rmmcclay at 5:59 AM on May 28, 2012
My gut reaction is two-fold: perhaps this was an isolated event...and if so, your husband probably feels pretty bad about it and might not know how to apologize. The second reaction is that perhaps something's been stewing for awhile.
In either case, my best suggestion is to let it go this time as best you can. From what you described you haven't done anything deserving of such an rude put down...but these things can and do happen in relationships.
posted by rmmcclay at 5:59 AM on May 28, 2012
This is not acceptable behavior.
In my own relationship, I tend to be the one who wants to go out to a bar -- since my boyfriend doesn't drink (he just doesn't like the taste of alcohol). Sometimes it's a bit annoying that he'd rather stay at home and watch a movie or go for a walk, rather than participating in what little nightlife this town has to offer. We've talked this over though and we've managed to arrive at the compromise that he comes to the bar with me and sits there drinking juice or whatever, a few times every month. But even if he never did go to a bar with me it would never ever occur to me to call him a "fucking loser." God, that's just beyond the pale.
Is this something you could expect from him? A lot depends on whether this was just a wholly uncharacteristic outburst -- people do say stupid things when they're extremely upset or angry -- or whether you can expect more of this from him. Call him and ask him to explain his behavior. If he's not extremely apologetic I would seriously rethink this relationship. Such contempt is a very bad sign.
posted by peacheater at 6:00 AM on May 28, 2012
In my own relationship, I tend to be the one who wants to go out to a bar -- since my boyfriend doesn't drink (he just doesn't like the taste of alcohol). Sometimes it's a bit annoying that he'd rather stay at home and watch a movie or go for a walk, rather than participating in what little nightlife this town has to offer. We've talked this over though and we've managed to arrive at the compromise that he comes to the bar with me and sits there drinking juice or whatever, a few times every month. But even if he never did go to a bar with me it would never ever occur to me to call him a "fucking loser." God, that's just beyond the pale.
Is this something you could expect from him? A lot depends on whether this was just a wholly uncharacteristic outburst -- people do say stupid things when they're extremely upset or angry -- or whether you can expect more of this from him. Call him and ask him to explain his behavior. If he's not extremely apologetic I would seriously rethink this relationship. Such contempt is a very bad sign.
posted by peacheater at 6:00 AM on May 28, 2012
This is all very strange and not quite stacking up. Is this the first time he has ever acted this way toward you? It's very odd to think that everything has been good and he's even been supportive recently ("Yay, go fo it, baby!") and then all of a sudden BAM!
To be clear, I am completely reading this in good faith and believe every word you say, but I feel like something is missing...? There wasn't any other underlying pattern of behaviour leading to this? Again, not that this is your fault but I'm wondering if this should be more the straw that broke the camel's back rather than an isolated incident.
If it is as you say, completely out of the blue, I still think you did the right thing. Who knows what verbal abuse could have escalated to (and I agree with the other posters, it was verbal abuse) particularly if he acted very unexpectedly. I think a phone call along the lines xingcat and DarlingBri suggest is reasonable.
posted by like_neon at 6:31 AM on May 28, 2012
To be clear, I am completely reading this in good faith and believe every word you say, but I feel like something is missing...? There wasn't any other underlying pattern of behaviour leading to this? Again, not that this is your fault but I'm wondering if this should be more the straw that broke the camel's back rather than an isolated incident.
If it is as you say, completely out of the blue, I still think you did the right thing. Who knows what verbal abuse could have escalated to (and I agree with the other posters, it was verbal abuse) particularly if he acted very unexpectedly. I think a phone call along the lines xingcat and DarlingBri suggest is reasonable.
posted by like_neon at 6:31 AM on May 28, 2012
As a survivor of childhood abuse, I'm not appropriately calibrated and could use some advice.
Calibrate from this: "When you suddenly screamed abuse at me, I was shocked and scared and devastated and felt I had no choice but to walk out. If that ever happens again, I will walk out again, and won't be coming back. I will not put up with being abused in my own home, not by anybody, and especially not by my own husband."
His anger is his to manage. It should not be your problem, and it's totally out of line for him to make it your problem. You should absolutely not make or accept excuses for this.
But: once you've both calmed down, and you have delivered the warning above and accepted his abject apology, you should work together to find out WTF is going on with him.
posted by flabdablet at 6:42 AM on May 28, 2012
Calibrate from this: "When you suddenly screamed abuse at me, I was shocked and scared and devastated and felt I had no choice but to walk out. If that ever happens again, I will walk out again, and won't be coming back. I will not put up with being abused in my own home, not by anybody, and especially not by my own husband."
His anger is his to manage. It should not be your problem, and it's totally out of line for him to make it your problem. You should absolutely not make or accept excuses for this.
But: once you've both calmed down, and you have delivered the warning above and accepted his abject apology, you should work together to find out WTF is going on with him.
posted by flabdablet at 6:42 AM on May 28, 2012
You did the right thing to leave the house when you did. I would call him, see what his recollection of the events were, and ask why he thought "fucking loser" was an appropriate thing to say to his wife of 5 years. Is this the only time he's reacted like this?
You had three conversations about your increased-- and hopefully temporary-- workload. Was he supportive of this drain on your shared time together, or just of the potential bonus?
You say you're not appropriately calibrated because of your childhood abuse. Is that an assessment he's given you before, or one you've given yourself due to previous experiences? Do you feel you have a hard time reading behavior within relationships, or is it just his behavior?
posted by RainyJay at 6:44 AM on May 28, 2012
You had three conversations about your increased-- and hopefully temporary-- workload. Was he supportive of this drain on your shared time together, or just of the potential bonus?
You say you're not appropriately calibrated because of your childhood abuse. Is that an assessment he's given you before, or one you've given yourself due to previous experiences? Do you feel you have a hard time reading behavior within relationships, or is it just his behavior?
posted by RainyJay at 6:44 AM on May 28, 2012
I am emphatically not trying to excuse his behavior - especially if Spouse knows your background and knows you get triggered - but could he have had a mini-stroke or something? If he was happy, content and even-tempered and then out of the blue had a cruel and hurtful outburst, it could have a physical cause, especially if he's 50 years old.
First, talk to him and tell him that the way he yelled at you was absolutely not acceptable. Then get him to a doctor to make sure he didn't have a mini-stroke or other event that could cause him to act out; then perhaps counseling to help you communicate in a more healthful way for both of you.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:44 AM on May 28, 2012
First, talk to him and tell him that the way he yelled at you was absolutely not acceptable. Then get him to a doctor to make sure he didn't have a mini-stroke or other event that could cause him to act out; then perhaps counseling to help you communicate in a more healthful way for both of you.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:44 AM on May 28, 2012
Hi, all; thanks so much for your input. Several of you said you needed more information. I apologize for not providing enough background. I'll be happy to do so, but please let me know what's relevant? Thanks!
posted by Punctual at 6:46 AM on May 28, 2012
posted by Punctual at 6:46 AM on May 28, 2012
Was he drunk or otherwise in an altered state? Does he swear frequently (i.e., was this choice of words out of the norm for him)?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:10 AM on May 28, 2012
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:10 AM on May 28, 2012
So, since this happened, has he made any reconciliatory communication towards you? I agree with the bulk of the posts -no, this is not OK behaviour, and no, you are not over reacting, even if this is something you have discussed/disagreed on in the past. Yes, a good question is whether he was drunk or otherwise altered, but that still does not, in any way, shape, or form excuse his outburst.
posted by kellyblah at 7:15 AM on May 28, 2012
posted by kellyblah at 7:15 AM on May 28, 2012
It's a horrible thing to say and he needs to apologize immediately. But it is important to distinguish between an outburst in anger and a pattern of verbal abuse. (I have read all the books, I come from a routinely verbally abusive alcoholic family, I know the drill.) In the absence of other information, it sounds to me like a regular person getting angry and not like a mean-spirited person warming up.
Take a few more days to collect yourself (and for HIM, more importantly, to do the same) and then take it step by step.
You are one hundred percent allowed to do whatever you want with your spare time without being called a loser, much less a fucking loser. But now that things have calmed down a little at work, or when they do, sit down and see what sort of new leisure-time compromise you can hammer out.
We have similar problems over here. We both come from yelling families and, in a rush not to duplicate the routine yelling of our childhood homes, we keep it all inside until we start screaming at each other. And we have very different recreation, work, and sleep habits.
I was just about to post an AskMe to the effect of, "I have horrible work pressure and can only do serious work at night; my SO wants me in bed by 11 at latest; how do I not yell JUST GO TO SLEEP ASSHOLE and work through this?" No, I haven't yelled that. But I've come close.
Lord knows I don't want even to sound like I'm minimizing the problem. Compared to some of the other responses it may appear that I am. Heaven forbid! It's a serious problem--he was in the wrong and must apologize. But I don't think it's beyond the pale for people who love each other, have a healthy relationship, and sometimes lose it.
posted by skbw at 8:29 AM on May 28, 2012
Take a few more days to collect yourself (and for HIM, more importantly, to do the same) and then take it step by step.
You are one hundred percent allowed to do whatever you want with your spare time without being called a loser, much less a fucking loser. But now that things have calmed down a little at work, or when they do, sit down and see what sort of new leisure-time compromise you can hammer out.
We have similar problems over here. We both come from yelling families and, in a rush not to duplicate the routine yelling of our childhood homes, we keep it all inside until we start screaming at each other. And we have very different recreation, work, and sleep habits.
I was just about to post an AskMe to the effect of, "I have horrible work pressure and can only do serious work at night; my SO wants me in bed by 11 at latest; how do I not yell JUST GO TO SLEEP ASSHOLE and work through this?" No, I haven't yelled that. But I've come close.
Lord knows I don't want even to sound like I'm minimizing the problem. Compared to some of the other responses it may appear that I am. Heaven forbid! It's a serious problem--he was in the wrong and must apologize. But I don't think it's beyond the pale for people who love each other, have a healthy relationship, and sometimes lose it.
posted by skbw at 8:29 AM on May 28, 2012
So, my observation has been that there is some variation out there in the world, re whether it's ok for spouses to yell profanities in anger.
For instance - in my house, the scene you describe would never ever happen. It just wouldn't. We'd rob a bank before we talked that way. But, I have a friend who considers herself happily married, whose husband has been known to say "fuck you" to her (not ironically) when she wants him to get up in the morning and he's not ready. (She was hurt - she cried to me - but she took it in stride.)
So, to me, the scene you're describing is bizarre; wildly unacceptable; possibly evidence of your husband's having a brain tumor; and by all means something he owes you a HUGE apology for and that you guys need to discuss and work through -- what the hell did he mean by that? Is there stored up anger that he has been hiding from you? Should you guys work out a compromise schedule of going out X times per week? Is he projecting his own frustration about getting old or not having as interesting a career, onto you? And what is he going to do to ensure that your communication never again devolves to that level?
But to my friend, it'd just be another day in her marriage. And maybe your husband comes from a place of similar expectations. In that case your reaction might surprise him; but that doesn't mean you shouldn't demand that he change, because seriously, what on earth. What you describe is a crazy scene.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:53 AM on May 28, 2012
For instance - in my house, the scene you describe would never ever happen. It just wouldn't. We'd rob a bank before we talked that way. But, I have a friend who considers herself happily married, whose husband has been known to say "fuck you" to her (not ironically) when she wants him to get up in the morning and he's not ready. (She was hurt - she cried to me - but she took it in stride.)
So, to me, the scene you're describing is bizarre; wildly unacceptable; possibly evidence of your husband's having a brain tumor; and by all means something he owes you a HUGE apology for and that you guys need to discuss and work through -- what the hell did he mean by that? Is there stored up anger that he has been hiding from you? Should you guys work out a compromise schedule of going out X times per week? Is he projecting his own frustration about getting old or not having as interesting a career, onto you? And what is he going to do to ensure that your communication never again devolves to that level?
But to my friend, it'd just be another day in her marriage. And maybe your husband comes from a place of similar expectations. In that case your reaction might surprise him; but that doesn't mean you shouldn't demand that he change, because seriously, what on earth. What you describe is a crazy scene.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:53 AM on May 28, 2012
Perhaps he does not know how to communicate little frustrations, thus he waits until it builds up and explodes.
This could very well be the cause of this outburst. Getting married for the first time later in life does not, in any way, mean there is something wrong with the person; however, they may not be used to having to express healthy conflict with people so close to them - you can avoid coworkers, not call your mother, but a spouse you pretty much HAVE to work things out with (or get a divorce, but most people don't want to rush to that).
It may be that he's also a conflict-avoider due to an abusive background (this is quite common) and/or he knows that you come from an abusive family and has taken pains to avoid making you afraid - until now, because unexpressed conflict and/or anger and/or dissatisfaction has built up to such a point that - especially if he's tired, stressed or not feeling well - comes out as one big GRAAAAARRRR FUCK YOU! It's like the parent who punishes a child for spilling milk not because s/he thinks spilling milk is a big deal but because it's just the last straw on top of a crappy day, or crappy life, and the child is not going to fight back, and the parent is so drained and at the end of their own rope that they simply cannot deal with that puddle of milk, that is objectively such a small thing.
How is he feeling now? Has he apologized? Does he feel remorse at what he said? Can he take it as a learning experience?
Besides a doctor visit (just in case this is triggered by something physical) I would again suggest counseling. It's a very sad thing when relationships, and friendships for that matter, are irretrievably lost because anger, frustration, etc. has built up so that someone says that one Un-Take-Backable, Unforgivable, scorched-earth name or outburst - that could have been prevented through good communication in the first place.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:38 AM on May 28, 2012
This could very well be the cause of this outburst. Getting married for the first time later in life does not, in any way, mean there is something wrong with the person; however, they may not be used to having to express healthy conflict with people so close to them - you can avoid coworkers, not call your mother, but a spouse you pretty much HAVE to work things out with (or get a divorce, but most people don't want to rush to that).
It may be that he's also a conflict-avoider due to an abusive background (this is quite common) and/or he knows that you come from an abusive family and has taken pains to avoid making you afraid - until now, because unexpressed conflict and/or anger and/or dissatisfaction has built up to such a point that - especially if he's tired, stressed or not feeling well - comes out as one big GRAAAAARRRR FUCK YOU! It's like the parent who punishes a child for spilling milk not because s/he thinks spilling milk is a big deal but because it's just the last straw on top of a crappy day, or crappy life, and the child is not going to fight back, and the parent is so drained and at the end of their own rope that they simply cannot deal with that puddle of milk, that is objectively such a small thing.
How is he feeling now? Has he apologized? Does he feel remorse at what he said? Can he take it as a learning experience?
Besides a doctor visit (just in case this is triggered by something physical) I would again suggest counseling. It's a very sad thing when relationships, and friendships for that matter, are irretrievably lost because anger, frustration, etc. has built up so that someone says that one Un-Take-Backable, Unforgivable, scorched-earth name or outburst - that could have been prevented through good communication in the first place.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:38 AM on May 28, 2012
The fact that he hasn't contacted you since Friday when this happened is, to me, even more troubling than what he said to you, which in and of itself is pretty damn troubling. Where the hell has he been all weekend and why on earth hasn't he contacted you to apologize?
I would be wondering at this point whether he has already decided that he wants your marriage to be over. Do you have joint bank accounts? Have you checked that there haven't been any major withdrawals?
posted by hazyjane at 10:49 AM on May 28, 2012
I would be wondering at this point whether he has already decided that he wants your marriage to be over. Do you have joint bank accounts? Have you checked that there haven't been any major withdrawals?
posted by hazyjane at 10:49 AM on May 28, 2012
The fact that he hasn't contacted you since Friday when this happened is, to me, even more troubling than what he said to you, which in and of itself is pretty damn troubling. Where the hell has he been all weekend and why on earth hasn't he contacted you to apologize?
I want to second hazyjane here. The lack of communication between you two over the last fw days is the most troubling aspect for me. It is absolutely not all right for him to call you a "fucking loser" and you should definitely spend some time thinking about what you need from him in order to continue your marriage relationship, but I think first priority ought to be touching base with him. He very well may want to end the marriage.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 11:02 AM on May 28, 2012
I want to second hazyjane here. The lack of communication between you two over the last fw days is the most troubling aspect for me. It is absolutely not all right for him to call you a "fucking loser" and you should definitely spend some time thinking about what you need from him in order to continue your marriage relationship, but I think first priority ought to be touching base with him. He very well may want to end the marriage.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 11:02 AM on May 28, 2012
I'm going to go with my knee-jerk reaction, and that's to advise you to get a lawyer. No spouse should ever tell their partner that they're a fucking loser. That's a dealbreaker on so many levels, and quite frankly, I don't think counseling can fix something like this. You deserve better. Do NOT back down, even if your husband seems contrite later. I think something is very wrong here, and I don't think that you'd be out of line to get outside help to support you as you make sense of what happened.
Sending you good thoughts.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 11:11 AM on May 28, 2012
Sending you good thoughts.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 11:11 AM on May 28, 2012
Thirding hazyjane and SkylitDrawl... there is something seriously, seriously wrong here. Your husband calling you a "fucking loser" was absolutely inexcusable (and yes, abusive), but the fact that he has not contacted you since Friday speaks volumes - my gut feeling is either he meant every word of his outburst and he's decidedly not sorry, or there's something else going on and he wants to end the marriage but is too cowardly to be honest and decent about it, and is lashing out at you as a means to assuage his own guilt and deflect blame.
In any case, there is no reason to drag this out longer. Three days is plenty enough time for him to cool off and get his shit together and talk to his wife. I would call him and let him know that you are expecting an explanation, an apology, and his plans for learning how to control his temper and communicate his frustrations like a respectful adult, because that can never, ever happen a second time if he wants to stay married to you.
posted by keep it under cover at 11:44 AM on May 28, 2012
In any case, there is no reason to drag this out longer. Three days is plenty enough time for him to cool off and get his shit together and talk to his wife. I would call him and let him know that you are expecting an explanation, an apology, and his plans for learning how to control his temper and communicate his frustrations like a respectful adult, because that can never, ever happen a second time if he wants to stay married to you.
posted by keep it under cover at 11:44 AM on May 28, 2012
Hi, all. I came home about an hour ago and he is not speaking to me. Yes, like walking right past me and pretending I'm not there. HEE! It would be funny if it weren't insane, right???
I'm calling an attorney tomorrow. Thank you all for your time, kind words, and mostly, your perspective. I don't always know what "healthy" is and you have really helped me.
posted by Punctual at 12:06 PM on May 28, 2012
I'm calling an attorney tomorrow. Thank you all for your time, kind words, and mostly, your perspective. I don't always know what "healthy" is and you have really helped me.
posted by Punctual at 12:06 PM on May 28, 2012
"But I don't think it's beyond the pale for people who love each other, have a healthy relationship, and sometimes lose it."
I don't disagree with this statement, but I disagree with its application here. God knows there have been instances where my husband and I have lost our tempers and said things we shouldn't have. But I have never said a terrible thing to him that I did not regret within moments of saying it, and I certainly have never sat there and watched while he fled our home in distress and then let three days go by without calling him to apologize or see if he's okay.
I can only speak based on my own experience, but while the initial outburst may not be beyond the pale in a healthy relationship, what followed certainly is beyond the pale and is cause for serious concern.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:11 PM on May 28, 2012
I don't disagree with this statement, but I disagree with its application here. God knows there have been instances where my husband and I have lost our tempers and said things we shouldn't have. But I have never said a terrible thing to him that I did not regret within moments of saying it, and I certainly have never sat there and watched while he fled our home in distress and then let three days go by without calling him to apologize or see if he's okay.
I can only speak based on my own experience, but while the initial outburst may not be beyond the pale in a healthy relationship, what followed certainly is beyond the pale and is cause for serious concern.
posted by keep it under cover at 12:11 PM on May 28, 2012
Hi, all. I came home about an hour ago and he is not speaking to me. Yes, like walking right past me and pretending I'm not there. HEE! It would be funny if it weren't insane, right???
HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
There's something seriously wrong here; clearly he's trying to make it your fault the marriage is breaking up because hey, you left! Were there problems before this or did this really come out of the blue?
Regardless, I could not stay married to someone who exhibited this kind of behaviour. Life would feel way too unpredictable and therefore scary. This is going to be just awful, I have no doubt, but it's probably the better option.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:17 PM on May 28, 2012
HOLY FUCKING SHIT ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!
There's something seriously wrong here; clearly he's trying to make it your fault the marriage is breaking up because hey, you left! Were there problems before this or did this really come out of the blue?
Regardless, I could not stay married to someone who exhibited this kind of behaviour. Life would feel way too unpredictable and therefore scary. This is going to be just awful, I have no doubt, but it's probably the better option.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:17 PM on May 28, 2012
On preview, oh my gosh, I am so sorry. Wow.
----
What I was going to say was:
His feelings and reasons are his own, but when it comes to how he choose to express them, he picked an extremely inappropriate way. It's great that you set boundaries by leaving. I agree that the fact he hasn't called is concerning.
Besides rehashing what everyone else has said, I want to address your bit on "we discussed my upcoming workload." What he said isn't that. He didn't say "you're always working." He woke you from a nap and accused you of always reading books. No, that doesn't make sense. Hopefully, eventually, he will explain it in a way that does. But he will have to do it. Particularly since it sounds like it's something bigger than what you're imagining.
---
Keep us updated. Don't fall for any "I'm mad because you left and involved other people instead of staying here, letting me verbally attack you, and suffering alone" bolshie.
posted by salvia at 12:19 PM on May 28, 2012
----
What I was going to say was:
His feelings and reasons are his own, but when it comes to how he choose to express them, he picked an extremely inappropriate way. It's great that you set boundaries by leaving. I agree that the fact he hasn't called is concerning.
Besides rehashing what everyone else has said, I want to address your bit on "we discussed my upcoming workload." What he said isn't that. He didn't say "you're always working." He woke you from a nap and accused you of always reading books. No, that doesn't make sense. Hopefully, eventually, he will explain it in a way that does. But he will have to do it. Particularly since it sounds like it's something bigger than what you're imagining.
---
Keep us updated. Don't fall for any "I'm mad because you left and involved other people instead of staying here, letting me verbally attack you, and suffering alone" bolshie.
posted by salvia at 12:19 PM on May 28, 2012
I came home about an hour ago and he is not speaking to me. Yes, like walking right past me and pretending I'm not there.
Oh dear! I take back the "he's a poor communicator" comment. The "silent treatment" is a form of emotional abuse. It sounds as if he has some serious issues around selfishness and control. It also sounds as if he's trying one of the oldest and sneakiest tricks in the book - forcing your hand so that you are the one initiating a separation so he doesn't look like the bad guy: "hey, SHE was the one who left, not me!"
I don't know if you can salvage things at this point - maybe, with counseling and an admission of wrongdoing on his part as well as concrete steps taken so this won't happen again. Given the fact that you come from abuse, though, I'd be extra careful, because it could be that he married you hoping that you would see emotional abuse as normal and expected, and therefore put up with it.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:26 PM on May 28, 2012
Oh dear! I take back the "he's a poor communicator" comment. The "silent treatment" is a form of emotional abuse. It sounds as if he has some serious issues around selfishness and control. It also sounds as if he's trying one of the oldest and sneakiest tricks in the book - forcing your hand so that you are the one initiating a separation so he doesn't look like the bad guy: "hey, SHE was the one who left, not me!"
I don't know if you can salvage things at this point - maybe, with counseling and an admission of wrongdoing on his part as well as concrete steps taken so this won't happen again. Given the fact that you come from abuse, though, I'd be extra careful, because it could be that he married you hoping that you would see emotional abuse as normal and expected, and therefore put up with it.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:26 PM on May 28, 2012
Reading through a bit of your history, you seem very level headed and happy with your life. I'm sorry this is happening, but after everything else you've done, you have the mental and emotional tools to get through it!
This past comment of yours, if you don't mind me linking to it, seems completely apropos! :)
posted by salvia at 12:28 PM on May 28, 2012
This past comment of yours, if you don't mind me linking to it, seems completely apropos! :)
posted by salvia at 12:28 PM on May 28, 2012
Between the sudden outburst and now the silent treatment, it sounds as if your husband's trying to be as juvenile as possible to prevent aging, or is just...abusive, as others have said. Couples counseling if he'll go for it/you want to try for it might be a good idea, but the attorney is definitely a good idea. You're handling a strange/upsetting situation very well, from what you've posted here! Keep us updated!
posted by RainyJay at 12:30 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by RainyJay at 12:30 PM on May 28, 2012
Hi y'all. I feel kind of stupid after reading your responses, as though I should know better. I am in therapy with a wonderful counselor and doing my best to heal and figure out what "healthy" is!
I think you are all correct that he is looking for a reason to end the marriage. I am honestly an awesome, amazing person that any guy would be lucky to have and the fact that he doesn't appreciate me says more about him than about me. Yes, you guys are correct that his childhood was abusive as well, but he is not the type to go to therapy or work on anything. He puts his hands over his ears and says "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" kind of thing.
Thank you for your kind words. Next time you see me here I will be posting about my awesome divorced life.
posted by Punctual at 12:32 PM on May 28, 2012
I think you are all correct that he is looking for a reason to end the marriage. I am honestly an awesome, amazing person that any guy would be lucky to have and the fact that he doesn't appreciate me says more about him than about me. Yes, you guys are correct that his childhood was abusive as well, but he is not the type to go to therapy or work on anything. He puts his hands over his ears and says "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" kind of thing.
Thank you for your kind words. Next time you see me here I will be posting about my awesome divorced life.
posted by Punctual at 12:32 PM on May 28, 2012
I don't think anything you posted or did was stupid. I think it's smart to double check your intuition. Not to mention that you seem to have been acting and reacting in a totally appropriate way.
Please do not hold back from posting until you can post about your awesome divorced life. It's okay to need help during hard times.
posted by salvia at 12:50 PM on May 28, 2012
Please do not hold back from posting until you can post about your awesome divorced life. It's okay to need help during hard times.
posted by salvia at 12:50 PM on May 28, 2012
Okay, you guys. This is TOTALLY immature and I admit it, but I am singing and whistling and it is driving him crazy. Yes, I am going to initiate a divorce tomorrow, blah blah, stick up for myself, etc., but it is SO fun to drive him insane by bopping around whistling and singing right now. Yes, I have issues. But I have fun, too.
posted by Punctual at 1:05 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by Punctual at 1:05 PM on May 28, 2012
This whole thing seems really off and not believable.
You're going to divorce him because of one (albeit awful) comment? The fact that everything was fine until that moment is weird to me. Maybe he is dealing with a mental health issue, or something really awful.
I don't think trying to provoke him is a good idea. Sorry.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:18 PM on May 28, 2012
You're going to divorce him because of one (albeit awful) comment? The fact that everything was fine until that moment is weird to me. Maybe he is dealing with a mental health issue, or something really awful.
I don't think trying to provoke him is a good idea. Sorry.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:18 PM on May 28, 2012
I just want to applaud and affirm your decision to initiate divorce proceedings ... You've learned boundaries, which is an enormously difficult thing to do if you've been abused. Go forth and continue to be your awesome self!
posted by nubianinthedesert at 1:18 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by nubianinthedesert at 1:18 PM on May 28, 2012
If this is heading for divorce, perhaps you should request this be made anonymous.
posted by Packed Lunch at 1:51 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by Packed Lunch at 1:51 PM on May 28, 2012
What do you want? It sounds like you've both been waiting for an excuse to be mad at each other, and so it might feel good to finally get those feelings of resentment out of the way. If you're interested in being with the other person and working it out then you at least need to try on your part. If your reaction to his outburst is a kind of revenge-provoking then I'd say that you're not trying at all.
I'm not saying that it's your responsibility to work on the relationship while it isn't his, or that his outburst wasn't horrific. I am, however, noting that in your responses it seems that you're less interested in working things out and more interested in having your feelings be justified. Whenever I find somehow like that happening to me I recognize it as a sign that I haven't been communicative enough--- and often times that blockage or suppression of communication can happen without me realizing it, even. Is that the case for you?
posted by suedehead at 1:55 PM on May 28, 2012
I'm not saying that it's your responsibility to work on the relationship while it isn't his, or that his outburst wasn't horrific. I am, however, noting that in your responses it seems that you're less interested in working things out and more interested in having your feelings be justified. Whenever I find somehow like that happening to me I recognize it as a sign that I haven't been communicative enough--- and often times that blockage or suppression of communication can happen without me realizing it, even. Is that the case for you?
posted by suedehead at 1:55 PM on May 28, 2012
My comment was that the adult way to deal with a first fight is certainly not to divorce your partner.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:04 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:04 PM on May 28, 2012
[folks, try to keep on topic. OP no more threadsitting please. ]
posted by jessamyn at 2:37 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by jessamyn at 2:37 PM on May 28, 2012
I think it is both true that the adult way to deal with a first fight is not to file for divorce and that waking your spouse to yell at them for being a "fucking loser" is not simply a fight but a very serious incident. So that's rather conflicting. I do think that deliberately driving your partner nuts the night before you (but not he) know you are filing for divorce is not a good response.
I dunno, it sounds like a lot is going on here that we are not privy to and it is thus impossible to give any sort of reasonable advice besides "try to act as maturely as possible".
posted by Justinian at 2:51 PM on May 28, 2012
I dunno, it sounds like a lot is going on here that we are not privy to and it is thus impossible to give any sort of reasonable advice besides "try to act as maturely as possible".
posted by Justinian at 2:51 PM on May 28, 2012
Does anyone remember the dispute between two rabbis, recorded in the Talmud (I think) regarding what reason a man must have to divorce his wife? (Wives divorcing husbands wasn't really on the table back then.) One rabbi said a man must have a very serious reason, such as adultery. But the other said a man could divorce his wife simply for burning his dinner. Later commentators explained the apparent harshness of the latter position by saying that if a man was prepared to consider divorce over such an incident, then the marriage must be an unhappy one anyway.
Which is to say that if the OP's gut is telling her to end it, it's not for us to decree whether she has a "good" reason. Perhaps it would be better to try and work things out first. But if her spouse literally won't speak to her, I'm not sure where she can start.
Also, maybe I missed something, but I don't think the OP said this was their first fight.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 3:31 PM on May 28, 2012
Which is to say that if the OP's gut is telling her to end it, it's not for us to decree whether she has a "good" reason. Perhaps it would be better to try and work things out first. But if her spouse literally won't speak to her, I'm not sure where she can start.
Also, maybe I missed something, but I don't think the OP said this was their first fight.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 3:31 PM on May 28, 2012
Look, divorce, even from an abusive or borderline abusive spouse is nothing to be EXCITED about. It's a serious step and should be treated as such. Feeling relief? Sure. But lording it over him isn't an appropriate response.
I've been on this road and would encourage you to file initially, but before you do anything final, get a counselor in the room and see what happens. At least you're moving towards closure: a divorce or reconciliation with all the issues on the table and dealt with. I also agree with the others who speculate that there's something more going on here. Depression in men often is expressed with anger rather than sadness. You could be missing a piece of the puzzle that would make this relationship work.
But I also believe that living with verbal abuse is unacceptable. Staying somewhere else is probably a good idea.
I really do wish you luck. Let us know how it turns out.
posted by guster4lovers at 4:08 PM on May 28, 2012
I've been on this road and would encourage you to file initially, but before you do anything final, get a counselor in the room and see what happens. At least you're moving towards closure: a divorce or reconciliation with all the issues on the table and dealt with. I also agree with the others who speculate that there's something more going on here. Depression in men often is expressed with anger rather than sadness. You could be missing a piece of the puzzle that would make this relationship work.
But I also believe that living with verbal abuse is unacceptable. Staying somewhere else is probably a good idea.
I really do wish you luck. Let us know how it turns out.
posted by guster4lovers at 4:08 PM on May 28, 2012
I think you should talk to, and show this thread to, your counselor before making any marital decisions. There's a lot of information that you haven't provided to give full insight to your questions, even though you've popped in to give short responses. I don't think you should be antagonizing him, either.
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:18 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:18 PM on May 28, 2012
I am singing and whistling and it is driving him crazy
Really not a good idea.
posted by flabdablet at 7:23 PM on May 28, 2012
Really not a good idea.
posted by flabdablet at 7:23 PM on May 28, 2012
Look, any background into your marriage would be appropriate. Is this normal for him? Is this a one-time thing? Do you guys fight often, never? Has he asked you to go out with him before and you've refused? Has he expressed dismay with your lack of interest in going out? Have you expressed dismay in his interest in going out? Seriously, anything more would be helpful. As it is it sounds like he was out of line, but you enjoy provoking him.
posted by Anonymous at 7:32 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by Anonymous at 7:32 PM on May 28, 2012
I think at this point the best thing is to take this offline and keep it between you and your counselor and possibly your lawyer.
posted by bleep at 8:08 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by bleep at 8:08 PM on May 28, 2012
They way he acted towards you was shitty.
But I have to say, what you're doing now is pretty shitty as well. Do you love this man? Are you really gleeful about getting a divorce after your first marital fight?
Get thee to your therapist, stat.
posted by Windigo at 9:27 PM on May 28, 2012
But I have to say, what you're doing now is pretty shitty as well. Do you love this man? Are you really gleeful about getting a divorce after your first marital fight?
Get thee to your therapist, stat.
posted by Windigo at 9:27 PM on May 28, 2012
Please stop provoking someone who is almost certainly bigger and crazier than you are, who you are alone with and who is already extremely angry. That just sounds like a recipe for disaster.
posted by hazyjane at 10:11 PM on May 28, 2012
posted by hazyjane at 10:11 PM on May 28, 2012
Since a mod hasn't, can I make a request for people to stop telling this woman to stop "provoking" her husband simply by singing? Is she supposed to sit in her room weeping, after she's finally figured out she doesn't want to be in this relationship? Geez.
"Don't provoke him" yes, good advice, but "stop provoking him" - well gosh, if a bit of singing provokes him into a violent rage, then by god she needs this divorce yesterday.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:07 PM on May 28, 2012
"Don't provoke him" yes, good advice, but "stop provoking him" - well gosh, if a bit of singing provokes him into a violent rage, then by god she needs this divorce yesterday.
posted by Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth at 11:07 PM on May 28, 2012
[Okay, guys, you know how this works: Do not argue with each other. Do try to help the OP by offering your own suggestions, not criticizing other answers. (Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth, questions about moderation go to Metatalk or the contact form, not here.)]
posted by taz at 12:14 AM on May 29, 2012
posted by taz at 12:14 AM on May 29, 2012
If the situation is unsafe, then the OP needs to get the hell out of the house. Never mind quibbling over whether she should sing or not.
posted by Perodicticus potto at 12:14 AM on May 29, 2012
posted by Perodicticus potto at 12:14 AM on May 29, 2012
FWIW, the OP has stated in a MeMail (before it became a topic of concern in this thread) that she is perfectly safe.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:25 AM on May 29, 2012
posted by DarlingBri at 12:25 AM on May 29, 2012
My advice to the OP is to take things you read on the internet with a grain of salt
That, and maybe talk to a marriage councilor who can mediate some communication between you two, it sounds like you're both terrible communicators.
posted by el_yucateco at 11:29 AM on May 29, 2012
That, and maybe talk to a marriage councilor who can mediate some communication between you two, it sounds like you're both terrible communicators.
posted by el_yucateco at 11:29 AM on May 29, 2012
Lt. Bunny Wigglesworth: "if a bit of singing provokes him into a violent rage, then by god she needs this divorce yesterday."
Generally speaking, from a purely a self-preservation perspective, it's not a good idea to provoke violent rage, no matter how well-deserved it might be.
My advice would be to get out of the house until you figure out what the hell is going on. No, it doesn't sound like any of this is your fault, but you may want to bite the bullet and stay somewhere else for a few days, and possibly see if you can somehow get through to your husband via a mutual friend.
posted by schmod at 12:54 PM on May 30, 2012
Generally speaking, from a purely a self-preservation perspective, it's not a good idea to provoke violent rage, no matter how well-deserved it might be.
My advice would be to get out of the house until you figure out what the hell is going on. No, it doesn't sound like any of this is your fault, but you may want to bite the bullet and stay somewhere else for a few days, and possibly see if you can somehow get through to your husband via a mutual friend.
posted by schmod at 12:54 PM on May 30, 2012
This thread is very mysterious to me. I had assumed that your question was "is this normal, and if not, how do we fix it?" But now it seems that you are not even going to attempt to salvage 5 years of marriage.
What he said to you was mean and it was not fair. Leaving the house was a decent initial response. Not returning for 3 days was much longer than would have worked in my marriage, but whatever. The silent treatment now may be that he's still mad and terrified that if he talks to you he will just be horrible again, so it may be him choosing to be as nice as he can manage right now. (I know that's the case when I get Silent, and it's not abusive! For Pete's sake.)
But I can't help but think that part of sticking up for yourself is saying "Hey. That isn't cool. You know I'm working a lot and we talked about it and you encouraged me to do this. I know it's hard. Can't we hang in there for another 6 weeks and then go back to hanging out more? Because I miss you, but right now if I do much more than reading I'll burn out."
If you had indicated that this was a pattern, that he's regularly horrible to you, anything to indicate that this was not a very unusual outburst from someone under stress who doesn't talk about feelings very easily... That would be hella relevant. As it stands now, your gleeful divorce response is very weird. I'm very surprised you aren't at least curious about what he's thinking. Where did this outburst come from? Are there other indications that he's angling for divorce that you haven't mentioned?
Even the healthiest among us find marital discord difficult to deal with and we get nervous bringing it up. Healthy couples fight too, and they fuck it up sometimes. But then they come back together and fix it together as a team because they're more interested in being a team than winning the fight. That depends on him, and it depends on you. Are you interested in that at all? (I honestly can't tell. If so, your follow ups are weird. But then what was your question?)
If you are unhappy in this marriage and don't want to continue it, then divorce. But if you want to fight for it, you certainly have more options.
posted by heatherann at 7:51 PM on May 30, 2012
What he said to you was mean and it was not fair. Leaving the house was a decent initial response. Not returning for 3 days was much longer than would have worked in my marriage, but whatever. The silent treatment now may be that he's still mad and terrified that if he talks to you he will just be horrible again, so it may be him choosing to be as nice as he can manage right now. (I know that's the case when I get Silent, and it's not abusive! For Pete's sake.)
But I can't help but think that part of sticking up for yourself is saying "Hey. That isn't cool. You know I'm working a lot and we talked about it and you encouraged me to do this. I know it's hard. Can't we hang in there for another 6 weeks and then go back to hanging out more? Because I miss you, but right now if I do much more than reading I'll burn out."
If you had indicated that this was a pattern, that he's regularly horrible to you, anything to indicate that this was not a very unusual outburst from someone under stress who doesn't talk about feelings very easily... That would be hella relevant. As it stands now, your gleeful divorce response is very weird. I'm very surprised you aren't at least curious about what he's thinking. Where did this outburst come from? Are there other indications that he's angling for divorce that you haven't mentioned?
Even the healthiest among us find marital discord difficult to deal with and we get nervous bringing it up. Healthy couples fight too, and they fuck it up sometimes. But then they come back together and fix it together as a team because they're more interested in being a team than winning the fight. That depends on him, and it depends on you. Are you interested in that at all? (I honestly can't tell. If so, your follow ups are weird. But then what was your question?)
If you are unhappy in this marriage and don't want to continue it, then divorce. But if you want to fight for it, you certainly have more options.
posted by heatherann at 7:51 PM on May 30, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Punctual at 4:52 AM on May 28, 2012