Sickly sweet and wonderfully nice.
May 8, 2012 6:55 AM Subscribe
I am too nice and selfless. How do I become less nice and/or meaner?
I will try to keep this short, as there is not too much to explain about it: As pointed out above, I am too nice. I accommodate others to the best of my abilities and whenever something comes up with one of my friends, I end up helping them to the best of my abilities, even if it means eventually putting them and their needs (or whims) above my own. This happens because I feel good/exceptionally happy in return after making others happy and I am not quite sure how to help this issue.
Why is this a problem? Well, oftentimes, I find myself giving things away, helping others monetarily and doing things that I simply CANNOT afford to, either physically/psychologically or just because I know I will regret them later (and end up having my "friends" walk all over me), and yet, I don't exactly stop and censor me from doing these. I'm not particularly impulsive when it comes to others areas of my life, but with this I have to admit I rather am. A lot.
I can and do stand up for myself in many ways, but still have no idea how to go about stopping myself from helping/gifting/being constantly there fussing over others. Help?
For example: If challenged I have no problem fighting for my ideas and what I believe on, but as soon as one of my friends tells me they need X, if it's possible for me to do so at all, I go and get them that and try to surprise them with it.
I will try to keep this short, as there is not too much to explain about it: As pointed out above, I am too nice. I accommodate others to the best of my abilities and whenever something comes up with one of my friends, I end up helping them to the best of my abilities, even if it means eventually putting them and their needs (or whims) above my own. This happens because I feel good/exceptionally happy in return after making others happy and I am not quite sure how to help this issue.
Why is this a problem? Well, oftentimes, I find myself giving things away, helping others monetarily and doing things that I simply CANNOT afford to, either physically/psychologically or just because I know I will regret them later (and end up having my "friends" walk all over me), and yet, I don't exactly stop and censor me from doing these. I'm not particularly impulsive when it comes to others areas of my life, but with this I have to admit I rather am. A lot.
I can and do stand up for myself in many ways, but still have no idea how to go about stopping myself from helping/gifting/being constantly there fussing over others. Help?
For example: If challenged I have no problem fighting for my ideas and what I believe on, but as soon as one of my friends tells me they need X, if it's possible for me to do so at all, I go and get them that and try to surprise them with it.
What if you tried some kind of middle ground resolution? Say, you won't give people money or financial assistance anymore, but in turn you will continue to give your time to help them and you won't be so hard on yourself for doing that. When you have success with this and see the world doesn't end, it might help you draw more boundaries later if you want to.
posted by J. Wilson at 6:58 AM on May 8, 2012
posted by J. Wilson at 6:58 AM on May 8, 2012
I have a very, very subtle suggestion.
You say that what you need to do is become "meaner". But that's not what it sounds like you need to do -- you only need to become a bit less generous. You can cut back on financial donations or expending energy to help people without being "mean".
I say this because maybe that is what is stopping you -- the perception that "oh, if I say no then that makes me a mean person because only mean people say no". Saying "no, I can't give you any more than this" or "sorry, I won't be able to help you" does not make you mean, and maybe that's a step towards fixing this, is understanding that for yourself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:58 AM on May 8, 2012 [42 favorites]
You say that what you need to do is become "meaner". But that's not what it sounds like you need to do -- you only need to become a bit less generous. You can cut back on financial donations or expending energy to help people without being "mean".
I say this because maybe that is what is stopping you -- the perception that "oh, if I say no then that makes me a mean person because only mean people say no". Saying "no, I can't give you any more than this" or "sorry, I won't be able to help you" does not make you mean, and maybe that's a step towards fixing this, is understanding that for yourself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:58 AM on May 8, 2012 [42 favorites]
I'm sure in some of these situations, by saying "yes," you're cutting someone else short (e.g. you intended to spend time with your SO but now you're helping out so-and-so). Think about all the "consequences" to help you rationalize and allow yourself to say "no." And realize that much of the time you're not the only and maybe not the best person who can help.
posted by bread-eater at 7:02 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by bread-eater at 7:02 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
You don't need to be meaner. You need to be NICER. To YOURSELF. Your needs come first because you're the only one you can 100% rely on to give a damn about yourself. But you've taken yourself out of that equation. You can't rely on yourself.
Remember that valuing yourself isn't at the expense of others. It makes you stronger, it makes you better able to be a friend. You can't be there for them if you're not there for yourself. So be your own best friend.
posted by inturnaround at 7:03 AM on May 8, 2012 [18 favorites]
Remember that valuing yourself isn't at the expense of others. It makes you stronger, it makes you better able to be a friend. You can't be there for them if you're not there for yourself. So be your own best friend.
posted by inturnaround at 7:03 AM on May 8, 2012 [18 favorites]
People can't respect your boundaries if they don't know what they are. You're helping them by telling them where they stand. Good people will be grateful, and bad people will ignore your boundaries. Leave the bad ones by the wayside.
However, you need to decide for yourself what your boundaries actually are. You can't enforce them or tell others about them until you've decided where the line in the sand is drawn. Decide that X and Y are OK, and A, B and C are not. Then communicate those to people. The Good people won't try to push past them, and the Bad people will become very clear very quickly.
posted by Solomon at 7:10 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
However, you need to decide for yourself what your boundaries actually are. You can't enforce them or tell others about them until you've decided where the line in the sand is drawn. Decide that X and Y are OK, and A, B and C are not. Then communicate those to people. The Good people won't try to push past them, and the Bad people will become very clear very quickly.
posted by Solomon at 7:10 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
You sound like an awesome person. Why not try to confine your generosity to those who are in need, but don't ask? Often the "askers" are selfish people who equate kindness and generosity with weakness. "I'm sorry, but I can't do that" is a useful answer for them.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 7:10 AM on May 8, 2012
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 7:10 AM on May 8, 2012
I agree with EmpressCallipygos, in that I think you need to redefine your goal here. The world does not need anybody to be more mean than they already are. But you can absolutely be less generous, and set stronger personal boundaries, without being meaner.
Maybe just start small, because suddenly reworking a big aspect of yourself will probably have a lot of ramifications that haven't occurred to you. You could sit down and think about a few things that you absolutely must have for yourself. Stuff like a monthly budget for yourself, a certain amount of personal time each week, and maybe some lifestyle requirements like at least three really yummy meals a week or a clean apartment or something. Then, every time someone asks you a favor or expresses a want that you get the urge to fulfill or fix, you can stop and think "does doing this cut into any of these minimum things for me?" If they do, you're completely justified in saying no, and heck, you'll even have a perfectly explicable reason why, if they wonder.
Then, gradually increase your requirements for yourself. I bet that you've got a reputation for being someone who can be taken advantage of. If you slowly work your way toward treating yourself with priority, that reputation will take care of itself.
posted by Mizu at 7:11 AM on May 8, 2012 [5 favorites]
Maybe just start small, because suddenly reworking a big aspect of yourself will probably have a lot of ramifications that haven't occurred to you. You could sit down and think about a few things that you absolutely must have for yourself. Stuff like a monthly budget for yourself, a certain amount of personal time each week, and maybe some lifestyle requirements like at least three really yummy meals a week or a clean apartment or something. Then, every time someone asks you a favor or expresses a want that you get the urge to fulfill or fix, you can stop and think "does doing this cut into any of these minimum things for me?" If they do, you're completely justified in saying no, and heck, you'll even have a perfectly explicable reason why, if they wonder.
Then, gradually increase your requirements for yourself. I bet that you've got a reputation for being someone who can be taken advantage of. If you slowly work your way toward treating yourself with priority, that reputation will take care of itself.
posted by Mizu at 7:11 AM on May 8, 2012 [5 favorites]
How do I become less nice and/or meaner?
It will help you if you don't think of it as "less nice" or "mean." You can stand your ground and still be a nice, generous person. Think of it as being nice to yourself - and you are a person who needs your help just as much as, or more than, anyone else.
You know that phrase "don't take my kindness for weakness"? Don't take your own weakness for kindness. You've probably got it in your head that you're a nice person, and helping people is what you do and who you are, so you're hesitant to go against that. But every time you agree to help someone and end up resenting it, you're not really acting in kindness.
Here's something to practice: don't immediately say "yes" to any favors asked of you. (You can make exceptions for requests that are immediate, cost no money, and take less than two minutes, like holding the door for someone.) Tell the asker you'll think about it, and give it at least twenty-four hours. This will relieve some of the pressure to say yes, and it might help you identify the people who are taking advantage of you: if they take it well and drop it or decide to ask someone else, that's a good sign, but if they keep pushing, they're probably trying to take advantage.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:18 AM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
It will help you if you don't think of it as "less nice" or "mean." You can stand your ground and still be a nice, generous person. Think of it as being nice to yourself - and you are a person who needs your help just as much as, or more than, anyone else.
You know that phrase "don't take my kindness for weakness"? Don't take your own weakness for kindness. You've probably got it in your head that you're a nice person, and helping people is what you do and who you are, so you're hesitant to go against that. But every time you agree to help someone and end up resenting it, you're not really acting in kindness.
Here's something to practice: don't immediately say "yes" to any favors asked of you. (You can make exceptions for requests that are immediate, cost no money, and take less than two minutes, like holding the door for someone.) Tell the asker you'll think about it, and give it at least twenty-four hours. This will relieve some of the pressure to say yes, and it might help you identify the people who are taking advantage of you: if they take it well and drop it or decide to ask someone else, that's a good sign, but if they keep pushing, they're probably trying to take advantage.
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:18 AM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think a lot of people who suffer from hapless overgenerousity do so because they have the misperception that most of their "friends" who receive the help would be there for them in a similar situation. They are often disappointed when they run into trouble, attempt to lean on others for support, and realize they are alone when they themselves are in need.
My advice to you would be to develop a mild sense of resentment naturally, instead of trying to force yourself to be "mean" (which I think is the wrong word - you are just trying to find a way to prioritize your own needs better). You can begin by asking the people you've helped for favors that require them to extend themselves to a difficult degree - a degree similar to how you've helped them in the past. Don't guilt-trip them; just ask them for a large favor and see what they say. Once you've seen that not all of them are willing to help you, you'll start to resent their lack of gratitude and I think that will naturally make you a more selfish person without any special effort involved on your part. By the same token, a few of them WILL make a dedicated effort to help you and this will help you identify the genuine friends who are worth keeping close. This will not necessarily make you less generous to your true friends, but you'll stop doing generous things for the users who don't deserve it.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 7:22 AM on May 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
My advice to you would be to develop a mild sense of resentment naturally, instead of trying to force yourself to be "mean" (which I think is the wrong word - you are just trying to find a way to prioritize your own needs better). You can begin by asking the people you've helped for favors that require them to extend themselves to a difficult degree - a degree similar to how you've helped them in the past. Don't guilt-trip them; just ask them for a large favor and see what they say. Once you've seen that not all of them are willing to help you, you'll start to resent their lack of gratitude and I think that will naturally make you a more selfish person without any special effort involved on your part. By the same token, a few of them WILL make a dedicated effort to help you and this will help you identify the genuine friends who are worth keeping close. This will not necessarily make you less generous to your true friends, but you'll stop doing generous things for the users who don't deserve it.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 7:22 AM on May 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
Why is this a problem? Well, oftentimes, I find myself giving things away, helping others monetarily and doing things that I simply CANNOT afford to, either physically/psychologically or just because I know I will regret them later (and end up having my "friends" walk all over me), and yet, I don't exactly stop and censor me from doing these.
This is a valuable piece of awareness and you should hold on to it.
How do I become less nice and/or meaner?
This is a kind of self-judgment that may be holding you back, and you should maybe re-consider it. Having boundaries is not the same thing as being mean. Protecting yourself is not the same thing as being mean. Meeting your own needs is not the same thing as being mean.
Certainly, there are ways to do all of those things that are mean, but there are also ways to do them that are not mean. Give yourself permission to say "no" sometimes. It's totally okay for you to say "no" to people. Anybody who respects you as a person will accept your "no" for what it is: the expression of your own awareness that something is not good for you to do. You are an adult: nobody else knows better than you what is good for you.
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with being generous, and you should feel good about your generosity. But behavior that puts you into needless financial or other trouble is not a virtue. Ultimately you will be able to be more generous, and more virtuous, and a better version of yourself as a whole, if you do so from a place of taking care of yourself.
Think of it this way: it sounds like you have a tendency to give your resources to whoever asks you first, or most urgently. What this means is that you are abdicating your own judgment about how your resources should be spent. You are letting someone or something else make those decisions for you. If Bill and Melinda Gates decided to give their wealth away to the first 5,000 people who asked them for it, their impact on the world would be a lot different than it is. Their impact would probably be smaller than it is, because it would be going not to the few unified purposes that they have chosen, but to all of the various other purposes that those 5,000 people could come up with. They would, in all likelihood, be doing less good that way.
Consider your relationship to this kind of compulsive generosity. Where does it come from? Maybe when you were a child, you felt like you had to buy the friendship or affection of others by letting them take what they needed from you. Now that you're older, maybe you're worried that you still have to do that or your friends will abandon you. If you say "no" they will be offended and punish you.
They won't punish you. Your real friends, the people who respect you and who want what's best for you, actually want you to enjoy your life. They don't want you to worry about making the rent because they happened to mention that they would love to have a new iPad and you left work early and drove the two-hours round-trip to the Apple store so you could surprise them with it, or whatever. That's not what we want for our friends. You have permission to say no. Try it.
posted by gauche at 7:23 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is a valuable piece of awareness and you should hold on to it.
How do I become less nice and/or meaner?
This is a kind of self-judgment that may be holding you back, and you should maybe re-consider it. Having boundaries is not the same thing as being mean. Protecting yourself is not the same thing as being mean. Meeting your own needs is not the same thing as being mean.
Certainly, there are ways to do all of those things that are mean, but there are also ways to do them that are not mean. Give yourself permission to say "no" sometimes. It's totally okay for you to say "no" to people. Anybody who respects you as a person will accept your "no" for what it is: the expression of your own awareness that something is not good for you to do. You are an adult: nobody else knows better than you what is good for you.
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with being generous, and you should feel good about your generosity. But behavior that puts you into needless financial or other trouble is not a virtue. Ultimately you will be able to be more generous, and more virtuous, and a better version of yourself as a whole, if you do so from a place of taking care of yourself.
Think of it this way: it sounds like you have a tendency to give your resources to whoever asks you first, or most urgently. What this means is that you are abdicating your own judgment about how your resources should be spent. You are letting someone or something else make those decisions for you. If Bill and Melinda Gates decided to give their wealth away to the first 5,000 people who asked them for it, their impact on the world would be a lot different than it is. Their impact would probably be smaller than it is, because it would be going not to the few unified purposes that they have chosen, but to all of the various other purposes that those 5,000 people could come up with. They would, in all likelihood, be doing less good that way.
Consider your relationship to this kind of compulsive generosity. Where does it come from? Maybe when you were a child, you felt like you had to buy the friendship or affection of others by letting them take what they needed from you. Now that you're older, maybe you're worried that you still have to do that or your friends will abandon you. If you say "no" they will be offended and punish you.
They won't punish you. Your real friends, the people who respect you and who want what's best for you, actually want you to enjoy your life. They don't want you to worry about making the rent because they happened to mention that they would love to have a new iPad and you left work early and drove the two-hours round-trip to the Apple store so you could surprise them with it, or whatever. That's not what we want for our friends. You have permission to say no. Try it.
posted by gauche at 7:23 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe you have to accept the idea that you can be loved without all the functioning for/accoutrements that you currently feel attend friend-having? (I'm learning this lesson, andI know it takes time and focus.)
posted by honey-barbara at 7:24 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by honey-barbara at 7:24 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Make well-defined (measurable) limits of time, effort, giving, accommodation. In your own mind, when you're alone. Verbalize them or write them down if it helps.
Then, when someone asks you to exceed your limits, say "sorry, no". If someone asks you to accept less than you need, say "I'm sorry, but I need this".
I'm saying this like it's easy. Not easy. Just trying to reduce to essentials. It's a habit that takes practice, self control.
posted by ead at 7:27 AM on May 8, 2012
Then, when someone asks you to exceed your limits, say "sorry, no". If someone asks you to accept less than you need, say "I'm sorry, but I need this".
I'm saying this like it's easy. Not easy. Just trying to reduce to essentials. It's a habit that takes practice, self control.
posted by ead at 7:27 AM on May 8, 2012
I think there might be 2 issues: understanding your own behaviour, especially the self-sacrificing aspect and (2) the actual techniques and issues surrounding saying no.
I would suggest "Feeling Good The New Mood Therapy" by David Burns, which is about CBT. Check out the chapters on love addiction and approval addiction.
I would also recommend "Your Perfect Right" which is a small book on assertiveness. You probably will find that you will run into issues when you say no. At a minimum, you will find people will react when you surprise them with your new attitude, so you need to be prepared: people will not want you to change and will resist.
posted by PickeringPete at 7:32 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would suggest "Feeling Good The New Mood Therapy" by David Burns, which is about CBT. Check out the chapters on love addiction and approval addiction.
I would also recommend "Your Perfect Right" which is a small book on assertiveness. You probably will find that you will run into issues when you say no. At a minimum, you will find people will react when you surprise them with your new attitude, so you need to be prepared: people will not want you to change and will resist.
posted by PickeringPete at 7:32 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not a mean person. Absolutely not. Like you, I just don't have it in me.
And I never, ever, ever give people money directly, outside of buying gifts, taking people out to dinner, etc.
Having boundaries isn't about being mean, so you should stop saying "I need to be meaner." Say, "I need to have firmer personal boundaries." This might involve disengaging from people who constantly violate those boundaries.
Here's something to practice: don't immediately say "yes" to any favors asked of you. (You can make exceptions for requests that are immediate, cost no money, and take less than two minutes, like holding the door for someone.) Tell the asker you'll think about it, and give it at least twenty-four hours
This. The most money-saving, personal-sanity-preserving thing you can do is to simply refuse to do things immediately. Don't buy stuff that you see right now. Don't give money right now to people who ask. Say you'll think about it. Sit on it for 24 hours, and wait until you're more comfortable turning them down or -- and this works, too -- until the asker finds someone else to resolve his or her problem.
The key is not to commit yourself until you KNOW you can do so. When someone says, "I need someone to help me pack my apartment and do a thorough housecleaning before I move next month," say, "I don't know if I can make it then. Keep me posted." And when the day comes, you will be in a better position to know whether this commitment is possible for you to make or whether you have a personal obligation or work deadline that means you're not free that weekend.
This isn't a matter of being meaner, just about keeping your own life free from self-created obligations.
posted by deanc at 7:33 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
And I never, ever, ever give people money directly, outside of buying gifts, taking people out to dinner, etc.
Having boundaries isn't about being mean, so you should stop saying "I need to be meaner." Say, "I need to have firmer personal boundaries." This might involve disengaging from people who constantly violate those boundaries.
Here's something to practice: don't immediately say "yes" to any favors asked of you. (You can make exceptions for requests that are immediate, cost no money, and take less than two minutes, like holding the door for someone.) Tell the asker you'll think about it, and give it at least twenty-four hours
This. The most money-saving, personal-sanity-preserving thing you can do is to simply refuse to do things immediately. Don't buy stuff that you see right now. Don't give money right now to people who ask. Say you'll think about it. Sit on it for 24 hours, and wait until you're more comfortable turning them down or -- and this works, too -- until the asker finds someone else to resolve his or her problem.
The key is not to commit yourself until you KNOW you can do so. When someone says, "I need someone to help me pack my apartment and do a thorough housecleaning before I move next month," say, "I don't know if I can make it then. Keep me posted." And when the day comes, you will be in a better position to know whether this commitment is possible for you to make or whether you have a personal obligation or work deadline that means you're not free that weekend.
This isn't a matter of being meaner, just about keeping your own life free from self-created obligations.
posted by deanc at 7:33 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
In the moment you agree to help people you are doing it to please them, but possibly also because you want their approval and gratitude. Catch yourself doing that.
It's a mindfulness problem. You need to also remember your own needs in that crucial moment. It doesn't mean always saying no to your friends, but it does mean sometimes saying "No, I can't help you move house that day, but I could come help you paint that puce living room later in the week" etc. etc.
posted by zadcat at 7:36 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's a mindfulness problem. You need to also remember your own needs in that crucial moment. It doesn't mean always saying no to your friends, but it does mean sometimes saying "No, I can't help you move house that day, but I could come help you paint that puce living room later in the week" etc. etc.
posted by zadcat at 7:36 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
The fact that your use the word "meaner" is a very big clue. Read the books.
posted by PickeringPete at 7:41 AM on May 8, 2012
posted by PickeringPete at 7:41 AM on May 8, 2012
This is just a guess, but do you feel secure in your friendships? Are you confident that your friends like you for who you are, and genuinely enjoy spending time with you? Because a desire to prove your value as a friend could be what's lurking at the heart of this.
In that case, I suggest an experiment. Block off an amount of time, say two months to start with. During this time, you are absolutely not allowed to buy anything for anyone else. This will be hard, because it goes against your instincts. But it's ok, because you're not changing who you are, you're doing it For Science. At the end of two months, look around. Are your friends still there? If so, you know that you don't need to give them things to keep them as friends. If not, you needed new friends anyway.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:43 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
In that case, I suggest an experiment. Block off an amount of time, say two months to start with. During this time, you are absolutely not allowed to buy anything for anyone else. This will be hard, because it goes against your instincts. But it's ok, because you're not changing who you are, you're doing it For Science. At the end of two months, look around. Are your friends still there? If so, you know that you don't need to give them things to keep them as friends. If not, you needed new friends anyway.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:43 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nice/mean is not really the situation here. You need to develop a crunchy exoskeleton of narcissism wherein you can remind yourself that it is okay to put yourself first.
posted by elizardbits at 7:47 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:47 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Put on your own oxygen mask first. You can't be of any real help to others if you can't take care of yourself. I think sometimes people say yes when they mean no or give money or time away because it's easier than emotionally engaging. Really listening to a person can be more effective than just writing them a check and sending them on their way, but it's a lot harder emotionally.
So, I'd suggest that you take a look at what you're getting out of these transactions and see if there's a way to get the same feelings without sacrificing your own resources. You can care for someone without having to be a doormat.
posted by Ideefixe at 7:58 AM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
So, I'd suggest that you take a look at what you're getting out of these transactions and see if there's a way to get the same feelings without sacrificing your own resources. You can care for someone without having to be a doormat.
posted by Ideefixe at 7:58 AM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
You need to strike a balance between selflessness and selfishness. This comes with practice and time. But, you achieve this balance by being selfish (to benefit yourself) and kind (to benefit others).
Think things through. Take five minutes to decide whether or not something will work for you. If it doesn't work for you and you don't really want to help someone out then you are not some mean person. You are taking care of your own needs. And, you are being kind to yourself.
This is more than okay. Just politely handle this by saying "I'm sorry, but I'm unable to help out. I really hope things work out well for you."
posted by livinglearning at 8:16 AM on May 8, 2012
Think things through. Take five minutes to decide whether or not something will work for you. If it doesn't work for you and you don't really want to help someone out then you are not some mean person. You are taking care of your own needs. And, you are being kind to yourself.
This is more than okay. Just politely handle this by saying "I'm sorry, but I'm unable to help out. I really hope things work out well for you."
posted by livinglearning at 8:16 AM on May 8, 2012
It's one thing to be generous when you have it to give, it's another to go without so someone else can have something.
Like others, I find it interesting that you equate a sacrifice you make (money, time, etc) with some benefit to yourself. That is concerning and you might want to explore that in therapy with someone.
You should have concrete goals that you must meet before you give, for example:
1. I will spend X hours on myself every day.
2. I will have X dollars in the bank before I give anything to anyone.
3. I will not give anything away or make any donations for x weeks.
By making the goals, you know that there is an object, a reason that will make you think about what it is that you are doing.
But definitely get a good therapist, what you are describing isn't nice, it's a serious mental problem.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:18 AM on May 8, 2012
Like others, I find it interesting that you equate a sacrifice you make (money, time, etc) with some benefit to yourself. That is concerning and you might want to explore that in therapy with someone.
You should have concrete goals that you must meet before you give, for example:
1. I will spend X hours on myself every day.
2. I will have X dollars in the bank before I give anything to anyone.
3. I will not give anything away or make any donations for x weeks.
By making the goals, you know that there is an object, a reason that will make you think about what it is that you are doing.
But definitely get a good therapist, what you are describing isn't nice, it's a serious mental problem.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 8:18 AM on May 8, 2012
Echoing everyone else: this is NOT about becoming meaner; it is about drawing boundaries. You can still be a kind, compassionate, generous, respectful person and not allow yourself to be taken advantage of. But this requires, above all, that the first person you treat with kindness, compassion, generosity, and respect is yourself.
posted by scody at 8:24 AM on May 8, 2012
posted by scody at 8:24 AM on May 8, 2012
I had the same issue for a lot of my life. Then I did one simple thing that helped me tremendously. I realized that my default answer to any request was "Yes." I made a concious decision that my default answer would be "no."
That doesn't mean I stopped doing things for people. It just meant that my immediate response was something like "I don't think that will work, but I'll look into it." Or, "let me check my schedule and I'll let you know..."
Even if it sounded like something I really DID want to help with, I HAD to go to this method of responding in order to keep my own boundaries and sanity. I could always follow up later and say "I thought about it, and I'll be able to help."
But just the "self-hack" of making "no" the default response was extrememly helpful. It allowed me to then choose the things and people I wanted to help, without becoming bitter or feeling used, and maintaing enough time for my own things.
posted by The Deej at 8:34 AM on May 8, 2012
That doesn't mean I stopped doing things for people. It just meant that my immediate response was something like "I don't think that will work, but I'll look into it." Or, "let me check my schedule and I'll let you know..."
Even if it sounded like something I really DID want to help with, I HAD to go to this method of responding in order to keep my own boundaries and sanity. I could always follow up later and say "I thought about it, and I'll be able to help."
But just the "self-hack" of making "no" the default response was extrememly helpful. It allowed me to then choose the things and people I wanted to help, without becoming bitter or feeling used, and maintaing enough time for my own things.
posted by The Deej at 8:34 AM on May 8, 2012
Figure out what the payoff is for you when you are too nice. We all do things that has a payoff. Maybe you want to be accepted, or liked. Mostly it is about how we want others to think about us and how much we don't value ourselves. Get to the root of it
I would suggest saying NO and observing the guilt you feel. I am sure you will feel that. Just stay with that feeling and that alone will give you some strong signals as to why you are doing what you do.
posted by pakora1 at 8:49 AM on May 8, 2012
I would suggest saying NO and observing the guilt you feel. I am sure you will feel that. Just stay with that feeling and that alone will give you some strong signals as to why you are doing what you do.
posted by pakora1 at 8:49 AM on May 8, 2012
DRABC.
Danger, Response, Airway, Breathing, Circulation...
You can forget the last four. Just start by checking for Danger. If I give in to this impulse, will it hurt me? Will it hurt someone?
If Danger=yes, don't proceed.
posted by tel3path at 9:19 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Danger, Response, Airway, Breathing, Circulation...
You can forget the last four. Just start by checking for Danger. If I give in to this impulse, will it hurt me? Will it hurt someone?
If Danger=yes, don't proceed.
posted by tel3path at 9:19 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I end up helping them to the best of my abilities, even if it means eventually putting them and their needs (or whims) above my own. This happens because I feel good/exceptionally happy in return after making others happy and I am not quite sure how to help this issue.
Allow me to suggest a perhaps unpleasant alternative theory (lemme know if any of this hits the mark; I'm guessing not all of it will). The mean(!!) tone is deliberate, since everyone else has provided a heapin' helpin' of the other stuff...
...
You're not 'nice,' you're self-abnegating in a way that everyone will think is 'nice.' You told us a whole bunch of times in your post how nice and (appropriately) self-defending you are, and set the whole post up such that the opposite of what you are is 'mean.' Bullshit. Mean people hurt other people for pleasure. Mean people disregard standards of decency.
Sensible people generally value their abilities and resources enough to be doing something with their time and energy other than becoming another human being's Band-Aid.
Your friends will be fine even if you don't bring them a box of It's Gonna Be OK every time they push your button. You're not their only friend.
Enjoying being fussed over is, in a literal sense, childish. People need help but they only want to be the center of fuss. No one actually needs that. You aren't giving your friends what they need at those times, you're giving them what they want, presumably because you want to be the person who does that for them.
This is gonna sound weird, but maybe what you need isn't 'to be meaner,' you need a hobby to soak up some of this making-things-juuuuuuust-right urge. Ever recorded books on tape for the blind?
posted by waxbanks at 9:24 AM on May 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Allow me to suggest a perhaps unpleasant alternative theory (lemme know if any of this hits the mark; I'm guessing not all of it will). The mean(!!) tone is deliberate, since everyone else has provided a heapin' helpin' of the other stuff...
...
You're not 'nice,' you're self-abnegating in a way that everyone will think is 'nice.' You told us a whole bunch of times in your post how nice and (appropriately) self-defending you are, and set the whole post up such that the opposite of what you are is 'mean.' Bullshit. Mean people hurt other people for pleasure. Mean people disregard standards of decency.
Sensible people generally value their abilities and resources enough to be doing something with their time and energy other than becoming another human being's Band-Aid.
Your friends will be fine even if you don't bring them a box of It's Gonna Be OK every time they push your button. You're not their only friend.
Enjoying being fussed over is, in a literal sense, childish. People need help but they only want to be the center of fuss. No one actually needs that. You aren't giving your friends what they need at those times, you're giving them what they want, presumably because you want to be the person who does that for them.
This is gonna sound weird, but maybe what you need isn't 'to be meaner,' you need a hobby to soak up some of this making-things-juuuuuuust-right urge. Ever recorded books on tape for the blind?
posted by waxbanks at 9:24 AM on May 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Sidebar: if you have to put 'friends' in scare quotes, then something else is a hell of a lot wronger than your 'niceness.'
posted by waxbanks at 9:25 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by waxbanks at 9:25 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I recently had a Huge Life Revelation:
People who are nice to everybody all the time are frequently unreliable because they overpromise to everybody and end up letting people down. It seems like it's nice to agree to help everyone who needs help to the best of your ability, but it's impossible because people will just come to you for more and more and more and more—and then you end up being, not nice, but a flake who lets people down.
I experienced this first when a couple of really really nice people I had come to rely on were not there when I desperately needed them, and I was left hanging when I thought I could depend on their support.
Then I turned it around on myself and realized that I was one of those nice-to-everybody people who sometimes let people down.
I'd rather be consistent and dependable than nice to everybody all the times. This means securing my own oxygen mask first, and saying no when saying yes means that I'll be overextended. This means reserving my energies to 1) take care of myself and 2) be the most helpful to the people who most need my help.
It sounds like you need to conserve your financial resources and your energy, or you're going to end up in a position where you can't help anyone with anything.
posted by BrashTech at 10:03 AM on May 8, 2012 [10 favorites]
People who are nice to everybody all the time are frequently unreliable because they overpromise to everybody and end up letting people down. It seems like it's nice to agree to help everyone who needs help to the best of your ability, but it's impossible because people will just come to you for more and more and more and more—and then you end up being, not nice, but a flake who lets people down.
I experienced this first when a couple of really really nice people I had come to rely on were not there when I desperately needed them, and I was left hanging when I thought I could depend on their support.
Then I turned it around on myself and realized that I was one of those nice-to-everybody people who sometimes let people down.
I'd rather be consistent and dependable than nice to everybody all the times. This means securing my own oxygen mask first, and saying no when saying yes means that I'll be overextended. This means reserving my energies to 1) take care of myself and 2) be the most helpful to the people who most need my help.
It sounds like you need to conserve your financial resources and your energy, or you're going to end up in a position where you can't help anyone with anything.
posted by BrashTech at 10:03 AM on May 8, 2012 [10 favorites]
Do you do the same thing for yourself? By which I mean do you treat yourself a lot, have a hard time controlling your own purchases or your eating or drinking? Can you be a bit self indulgent? If so spending money might he your way of dealing with stress or unhappiness anywhere. Like the friends mom who keeps buying everyone cushions and t-shirts. You're looking for a way to manage and structure your interactions with people. The method you've arrived at is giving them things. That way, you assume, they have to be grateful and you are automatically cast in the "nice" role in your mind. Also now they owe you (again in your mind).
I mention this because you talk about getting things for people unasked and inappropriately. People here are interpreting this as you being taken advantage of but I wonder if you are. Does your generosity ever make others uncomfortable? It would me I think.
posted by fshgrl at 10:09 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I mention this because you talk about getting things for people unasked and inappropriately. People here are interpreting this as you being taken advantage of but I wonder if you are. Does your generosity ever make others uncomfortable? It would me I think.
posted by fshgrl at 10:09 AM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Consider that this may not actually be helping your friends. Sometimes saying no or setting boundaries is ultimately the kinder thing to do. In that case, you're simply indulging your need to be generous. Generosity is not a bad trait! And as you say, it feels great. But recognize the urge for what it is: an indulgence of your needs that is ultimately harmful to you and possibly off-putting to others. Don't cut yourself off from generosity, but set limits. Two hours, instead of all day. Buy someone a drink, instead of a case of beer. And then...very rarely...when you need a pick me up, give yourself permission to go overboard with the giving. And say, "hey, indulge me in this, I just need to be a baller for today" when you do it. Better yet, ask a friend to help you stay accountable. Check in with them before you do something overboard. Friends like doing favors for each other, as you well know. I'm sure they'll be happy to help you with this.
posted by rhythm and booze at 10:20 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by rhythm and booze at 10:20 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think you've framed the issue wrongly. I'm sure you are a really nice person, but I don't think this behaviour is about niceness - I think it's about fear and a sense of inadequacy. I think it comes from feeling that you're not enough, on your own, to be likeable, so you have to do things for people. Maybe subconsciously you believe that people would have no reason to be friends with you if you weren't buying things for them and doing them favours. I think it's overcompensation.
You can stop overgiving and still be an amazingly nice person. Saying no doesn't (normally) make you mean. People will also appreciate the things you do for them more if those favours aren't coming from a place of insecurity.
posted by Fairisle at 10:47 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
You can stop overgiving and still be an amazingly nice person. Saying no doesn't (normally) make you mean. People will also appreciate the things you do for them more if those favours aren't coming from a place of insecurity.
posted by Fairisle at 10:47 AM on May 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Seconding rhythm and booze just above-- if you feel as though your accommodating tendencies sometimes go to (mildly) unhealthy lengths in your own life, then consider what benefits you may be getting out of the act of helping your friends, or your self-image as The Nice One. Although you're asking how to reduce your "niceness", your question suggests that you're actually pretty proud of this quality, and that you habitually regard doing favors for your friends as proof of what a great person you are. You're certainly going to have a hard time changing the behavior without doing some introspection about how it might be connected up with your own self-esteem and emotional needs.
Seconding also (from my own past experience as a frequent favor-asker) that completely indiscriminate, boundary-less help is also really bad for the people being helped. The very worst thing you can do for an irresponsible friend is to enable his/her irresponsibility, and ditto for a selfish friend who asks too much. Consider that we're all trying to become better people here, and that your willingness to let friends walk all over you may just be confirming them in a personality pattern that will ultimately make them less likeable, less successful people. That's pretty awful, no?
And finally, if you're at all motivated by a longing for approval from these people-- be aware that the principles of cognitive dissonance may make them respect and like you less, the more you help them. (I believe the internal monologue runs: I'm taking advantage of Anonymous, why? ... Clearly not because I'm a bad person... must be because I don't like her very much! Or because she's just a total doormat anyway! Yeah, that's it! If I didn't take advantage, someone else would! ) All of which means that if you really want these people to like you, then you should be getting them to do favors for you, not vice-versa.
posted by Bardolph at 10:48 AM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Seconding also (from my own past experience as a frequent favor-asker) that completely indiscriminate, boundary-less help is also really bad for the people being helped. The very worst thing you can do for an irresponsible friend is to enable his/her irresponsibility, and ditto for a selfish friend who asks too much. Consider that we're all trying to become better people here, and that your willingness to let friends walk all over you may just be confirming them in a personality pattern that will ultimately make them less likeable, less successful people. That's pretty awful, no?
And finally, if you're at all motivated by a longing for approval from these people-- be aware that the principles of cognitive dissonance may make them respect and like you less, the more you help them. (I believe the internal monologue runs: I'm taking advantage of Anonymous, why? ... Clearly not because I'm a bad person... must be because I don't like her very much! Or because she's just a total doormat anyway! Yeah, that's it! If I didn't take advantage, someone else would! ) All of which means that if you really want these people to like you, then you should be getting them to do favors for you, not vice-versa.
posted by Bardolph at 10:48 AM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Think about your feelings before worrying about those of others and read some Ayn Rand.
posted by lotusmish at 12:17 PM on May 8, 2012
posted by lotusmish at 12:17 PM on May 8, 2012
read some Ayn Rand
Hey, let's not go nuts. The OP wanted to develop some boundaries, not turn into a sociopath.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:19 PM on May 8, 2012 [11 favorites]
Hey, let's not go nuts. The OP wanted to develop some boundaries, not turn into a sociopath.
posted by Ragged Richard at 12:19 PM on May 8, 2012 [11 favorites]
Distinguish "nice" from saying "yes". Which is nicer - telling a little kid they can run in the streets at night, or telling them "no" because it's for their own good?
You're not being "nice" when you let people take advantage of you. What you're doing is teaching them to be less considerate people. Do them a favor and tell them "no" along with why you're saying it.
posted by Sakura3210 at 12:22 PM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
You're not being "nice" when you let people take advantage of you. What you're doing is teaching them to be less considerate people. Do them a favor and tell them "no" along with why you're saying it.
posted by Sakura3210 at 12:22 PM on May 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Nice != Selfless. That's the key of it; you should act nicely as much as you deem it serves your needs. If your need for feeling helpful trumps your need for setting certain boundaries, then you're doing fine. If you don't set boundaries, or drop them, in order to feel helpful, but that helpful feeling isn't as good for you as you'd feel if you'd set/stuck with the boundaries, then you have a problem.
So: the easiest thing to learn, then, is how to say "I'm not sure yet" in a nice way. Such as, when someone asks you if you'll do something at a later date, saying "I'm not sure if I can, but I'll see what I can do and let you know." Then you will have plenty of time to weigh your options, and if the answer is no, you can send a note to that effect (wishing them well, of course, because you're still nice!) If they give you a hard time at that point, well, then they aren't being nice, are they? Stick to your guns.
Of course, if they're asking for help right now, you take a different approach: if you can't beg out on an existing time commitment, say "I can help for a few minutes, but I have another commitment." If they press you on what that commitment is, well, then they aren't being nice, are they? Just say "something personal I need to take care of today. Now, what can I do to help before I leave?"
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 1:57 PM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
So: the easiest thing to learn, then, is how to say "I'm not sure yet" in a nice way. Such as, when someone asks you if you'll do something at a later date, saying "I'm not sure if I can, but I'll see what I can do and let you know." Then you will have plenty of time to weigh your options, and if the answer is no, you can send a note to that effect (wishing them well, of course, because you're still nice!) If they give you a hard time at that point, well, then they aren't being nice, are they? Stick to your guns.
Of course, if they're asking for help right now, you take a different approach: if you can't beg out on an existing time commitment, say "I can help for a few minutes, but I have another commitment." If they press you on what that commitment is, well, then they aren't being nice, are they? Just say "something personal I need to take care of today. Now, what can I do to help before I leave?"
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 1:57 PM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
So I just came across this interview with Adam Yauch (of the Beastie Boys yes I'm obessing over the Beasties since he died last week) from several years ago about his Buddhist beliefs, and he makes exactly the same point that others have been saying in this thread:
The bottom line, I think, of the bodhisattva path is doing what most benefits the totality of the universe, of all that is. And when you put yourself out there in a way that you aren't really functional, then that is not going to most benefit the universe. [...] That's the thing to keep track of: the motivation behind what you are putting out. If my motivation is clear, what I'm saying is, "I can't talk to you right now. I don't have time to do that." My motivation isn't to be rude to that person. That's the key.posted by scody at 3:55 PM on May 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
I do think that is a misconception of what the bodhisattva vow is. Because a lot of people just mess themselves up by feeling like they have to "do" stuff for other people, all of the time, even when that's not working for them personally. They have to include themselves in that overall picture of benefitting everyone. They have to include themselves as "beings", and know that by being in their strongest place, that that is how they can most benefit the universe, most of the time. Being a bodhisattva is about strengthening yourself, so you can go on. Benefit where the benefit is needed. Come from a strong place in yourself and you really help people.
Read "Anxious to Please: 7 Revolutionary Practices for the Chronically Nice" by James Rapson. I wore out my library's copy by rereading it so much. Actually helped change my life.
posted by Jandoe at 9:21 PM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Jandoe at 9:21 PM on May 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Seconding *Anxious to Please.* I not only read the book, but was also lucky enough to take a workshop with the authors (which I also recommend if they are still offering it). It's a cut above the typical advice offered on this subject.
posted by chicainthecity at 11:28 PM on May 8, 2012
posted by chicainthecity at 11:28 PM on May 8, 2012
I am a fellow sufferer. I have been burnt over and over and over again, and then some. I think I am a bit ahead of your down the road in that I am burnt out on people in general and I have become very, very pessimistic and cynical as a result (as of my current status; working on getting out of the ditch of course). The reason I was super-generous was because hey, you do *anything* you can for a friend/relationship. Well, the problem is that I forget about one most important relationship- the one I have with myself. And I am writing all this not because I want to share it will millions of people but because I hope you can see where you are headed. It's not a good place. Think of blood donation or helping people with air masks in a flight- you've got to be in a good place yourself before you help others. That's true everywhere.
So how to overcome the problem? I suggest that you set different rules, expectations and boundaries for every person in your life- friends, family, relationships. If you have a *need* to just give unconditionally and selflessly, I urge you to think about volunteering with people who could use your help and possibly appreciate it now or in the future (I am thinking more of organizations that help children and orphanages but it really doesn't matter). Its a slow process but you have to be constantly aware and proactive about it. Either you respect yourself to treat yourself as well as you treat a friend or you probably don't respect yourself. And, the latter will lead to issues of its own.
Feel free to mail me if you want.
posted by xm at 11:55 AM on May 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
So how to overcome the problem? I suggest that you set different rules, expectations and boundaries for every person in your life- friends, family, relationships. If you have a *need* to just give unconditionally and selflessly, I urge you to think about volunteering with people who could use your help and possibly appreciate it now or in the future (I am thinking more of organizations that help children and orphanages but it really doesn't matter). Its a slow process but you have to be constantly aware and proactive about it. Either you respect yourself to treat yourself as well as you treat a friend or you probably don't respect yourself. And, the latter will lead to issues of its own.
Feel free to mail me if you want.
posted by xm at 11:55 AM on May 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
This article has been making rounds on my Facebook and is directly related to what you're discussing. As inturnaround said, it's not about being meaner to others - it's about being nicer to yourself and listening to your own needs. Stop putting yourself last.
posted by buteo at 5:12 PM on May 9, 2012
posted by buteo at 5:12 PM on May 9, 2012
Keep being nice, esp. if that means being kind. That's not the same as allowing people to take advantage of you, or having no boundaries. Weekly, consider your interactions. Did a friend get you to do something you really didn't want to do (didn't have time, money, interest, whatever)? How could you have done it differently? You can say no, hold your ground, and be a nice person.
Friend, I know you really love big action movies, and, yes, I know everyone is raving about the Avengers, but I called to see if you wanted to come with me to see Indie Film. Have a great time at the Avengers.
Gosh, you ran out of gas again! That's just terrible. I'm so glad you're safe. What? Oh no, I just can't bring you any gas right now. I have a busy day planned. Let me look up some numbers of people who could come help you out. Yes, I know it will be pricey, that just sucks. Unfortunately, no, I can't drive all that way today; I have plans.
A party at work for Lee's birthday? Terrific idea. Cake, oh, no, I'm not going to be able to make a cake this evening. I just can't, but the cakes from Local Supermarket are quite reasonable.
posted by theora55 at 11:15 PM on May 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Friend, I know you really love big action movies, and, yes, I know everyone is raving about the Avengers, but I called to see if you wanted to come with me to see Indie Film. Have a great time at the Avengers.
Gosh, you ran out of gas again! That's just terrible. I'm so glad you're safe. What? Oh no, I just can't bring you any gas right now. I have a busy day planned. Let me look up some numbers of people who could come help you out. Yes, I know it will be pricey, that just sucks. Unfortunately, no, I can't drive all that way today; I have plans.
A party at work for Lee's birthday? Terrific idea. Cake, oh, no, I'm not going to be able to make a cake this evening. I just can't, but the cakes from Local Supermarket are quite reasonable.
posted by theora55 at 11:15 PM on May 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Practice not giving and answer. Train yourself to say "maybe", "let me think about it", "let me get back to you". This is sooo much easier than saying no to people, and it also gives you time to really think about your choice, instead of automatically saying yes. It will help give you time to practice boundaries.
posted by Vaike at 3:06 PM on May 12, 2012
posted by Vaike at 3:06 PM on May 12, 2012
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I'd say that the best way to change this is to just start saying "no" a lot more frequently. Depending on your background and other related issues, this may be an easy change or it may not be.
If it's not an easy change for you to make this is the kind of thing that therapy can help with. For some, therapy may be good, for others, it's just a simple change of saying "no" more frequently.
posted by dfriedman at 6:58 AM on May 8, 2012