Can I etchasketch my education history?
April 18, 2012 2:12 PM Subscribe
What happens if I apply to a 4 year university without disclosing my short stints at community colleges?
I graduated from high school a decade ago, and spent the next 5 years working and weakly attempting to become educated at 3 different community colleges, and dropped out of each of them with a mix of high grades and incompletes.
Frustrated with my current non-career, I want to go to school for real. I'd rather lose all credit-progress from the semesters at community college than enroll in yet another JC (new area) and struggle through cleaning up my transcript.
With my enrollment history, is going straight to a 4 year school completely impossible? Will they use my SSN to find previous semesters at college?
I graduated from high school a decade ago, and spent the next 5 years working and weakly attempting to become educated at 3 different community colleges, and dropped out of each of them with a mix of high grades and incompletes.
Frustrated with my current non-career, I want to go to school for real. I'd rather lose all credit-progress from the semesters at community college than enroll in yet another JC (new area) and struggle through cleaning up my transcript.
With my enrollment history, is going straight to a 4 year school completely impossible? Will they use my SSN to find previous semesters at college?
I tried this once. I got accepted to the university and had forgotten to include a transcript from a summer community college course that I'd taken as a freshman in high school. I genuinely forgot to include it.
Anyhow I got a call saying that my acceptance was revoked, and when I visited the administrative office to try and explain, they accused me outright of deliberately covering it up in order to improve my chances of getting into their university (the grade had been a C, which lowered my overall GPA by just a smidge).
I was allowed to appeal their decision, but my appeal was rejected. And that's the story of how I was kicked out of university before I ever got to attend a single class (but not, I'm happy to say, before I'd already gotten my school ID, so I did wind up being able to draw upon some benefits).
posted by hermitosis at 2:24 PM on April 18, 2012 [19 favorites]
Anyhow I got a call saying that my acceptance was revoked, and when I visited the administrative office to try and explain, they accused me outright of deliberately covering it up in order to improve my chances of getting into their university (the grade had been a C, which lowered my overall GPA by just a smidge).
I was allowed to appeal their decision, but my appeal was rejected. And that's the story of how I was kicked out of university before I ever got to attend a single class (but not, I'm happy to say, before I'd already gotten my school ID, so I did wind up being able to draw upon some benefits).
posted by hermitosis at 2:24 PM on April 18, 2012 [19 favorites]
You may check to see if the universities you're interested in have a policy of academic renewal, or grade forgiveness, that would allow you to keep the high grades and make up for the lower ones.
posted by padraigin at 2:39 PM on April 18, 2012
posted by padraigin at 2:39 PM on April 18, 2012
I think that you can spin these to your advantage in your application. You can say that while you have tried to get an education, and that you have tried to develop your interests, you now recognize that buckling down to an extended program is what is going to work for you.
posted by pickypicky at 2:44 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by pickypicky at 2:44 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
In general, what hermitosis says. One way the university you're applying to could find out is if you had sent your HS transcript to the community college (I found that is a lot easier than having to test out of really basic courses). But what happens is there's a notation on you transcripts of where and when they were sent. So when they look at your HS transcript they might see it was sent to XX community college(s). I don't think the community college will share your grades with them w/o your permission, but they will disclose that you were enrolled in classes on whatever term. Since the application to the university will state you have to list every school you've gone to and you don't you're already breaking the rules. That is not the kind of person they're looking for. Lying on the application is a great way to not get admitted.
If I were you I'd talk to someone in admissions at the universities you're interested in attending. I had a similar situation with community colleges after going broke at university (and not really doing well). In my case, I took classes with varying success at 3 community colleges over the course of a few years. When I figured out what I wanted to do and had my shit together, I talked to the admission people at the university I wanted to attend. They wanted all those transcripts and granted admission to on two conditions a) I attend community college and get decent grades (just one class that was a general studies class I needed to take anyway) the summer session before and b) get at least a 2.5 once I was taking classes at the university. I averaged a 3.8 as a full-time student while I was there so I had no worry of academic probabaton. The good news was some of those classes I took at the community colleges that I got a C in did transfer so it wasn't a total waste.
posted by birdherder at 2:46 PM on April 18, 2012
If I were you I'd talk to someone in admissions at the universities you're interested in attending. I had a similar situation with community colleges after going broke at university (and not really doing well). In my case, I took classes with varying success at 3 community colleges over the course of a few years. When I figured out what I wanted to do and had my shit together, I talked to the admission people at the university I wanted to attend. They wanted all those transcripts and granted admission to on two conditions a) I attend community college and get decent grades (just one class that was a general studies class I needed to take anyway) the summer session before and b) get at least a 2.5 once I was taking classes at the university. I averaged a 3.8 as a full-time student while I was there so I had no worry of academic probabaton. The good news was some of those classes I took at the community colleges that I got a C in did transfer so it wasn't a total waste.
posted by birdherder at 2:46 PM on April 18, 2012
I graduated from high school a decade ago
I think this might make a difference. Be sure to explain in your application that it wasn't the right time for you to go back to school. Draw on recommendations from your working life and show that you're strong in that area.
and spent the next 5 years working and weakly attempting to become educated at 3 different community colleges, and dropped out of each of them with a mix of high grades and incompletes.
When you applied to the new ones, did you use transcripts from the old ones? Did any credit transfer? You may be able to use the transcript from the last one, if that's the case, explaining that you transferred in credits. I would ask about this.
posted by quincunx at 2:47 PM on April 18, 2012
I think this might make a difference. Be sure to explain in your application that it wasn't the right time for you to go back to school. Draw on recommendations from your working life and show that you're strong in that area.
and spent the next 5 years working and weakly attempting to become educated at 3 different community colleges, and dropped out of each of them with a mix of high grades and incompletes.
When you applied to the new ones, did you use transcripts from the old ones? Did any credit transfer? You may be able to use the transcript from the last one, if that's the case, explaining that you transferred in credits. I would ask about this.
posted by quincunx at 2:47 PM on April 18, 2012
This is just my opinion, of course, but I think the issue is not the credits. (hermitosis' story is the exception, I believe.) It is the money. If you got pell grants or student loans at the community colleges you attended, you have already used up some of limited number of semesters that you can qualify for federally funded financial aid. If you paid for the community colleges with cash or if you are going to pay for college with non-federal assistance, you are golden.
My story, I took state college and community college courses in high school. My parents paid the tuition. When I applied to my private 4 year school, I did not include the info on those courses. No one ever asked.
My work story, I worked in academic advising for 10 years at a private university. I don't remember anyone who was ever kicked out for not declaring a previous attempt at college, but a number of people could not get financial aid in their last year of college, because they had used up a couple of semesters of financial aid eligiblity at other colleges and had not disclosed it at time of application.
posted by hworth at 2:50 PM on April 18, 2012
My story, I took state college and community college courses in high school. My parents paid the tuition. When I applied to my private 4 year school, I did not include the info on those courses. No one ever asked.
My work story, I worked in academic advising for 10 years at a private university. I don't remember anyone who was ever kicked out for not declaring a previous attempt at college, but a number of people could not get financial aid in their last year of college, because they had used up a couple of semesters of financial aid eligiblity at other colleges and had not disclosed it at time of application.
posted by hworth at 2:50 PM on April 18, 2012
I work with transfer students. What mskyle says is true, and I have actually been involved in a situation where a student got kicked out of my university because she didn't disclose one of the other institutions she had attended. Her case is more worst-case though, because she had been dismissed from that institution.
Whether your previous record has an impact on your admission to a university now will have a lot to do with how long ago you last attended a community college, and whether you left any of those institutions in poor academic standing (on probation or dismissed). If you just did "poorly" but had a 2.0 or higher, you'll be fine. The longer ago it was, the less important the credit is.
You might need to be "conditionally admitted" to the university if they have that policy, but I don't think you'll run into issues, depending on where you're applying. Memail me if you have more questions or want to give me more specifics so I can give you a better idea of your situation.
posted by bibbit at 2:52 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whether your previous record has an impact on your admission to a university now will have a lot to do with how long ago you last attended a community college, and whether you left any of those institutions in poor academic standing (on probation or dismissed). If you just did "poorly" but had a 2.0 or higher, you'll be fine. The longer ago it was, the less important the credit is.
You might need to be "conditionally admitted" to the university if they have that policy, but I don't think you'll run into issues, depending on where you're applying. Memail me if you have more questions or want to give me more specifics so I can give you a better idea of your situation.
posted by bibbit at 2:52 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I was in somewhat of a similar boat. At 17 I got into a very competitive program at a well-respected college. I was young, lazy, and was not as proactive as I am now. Lack of discipline, apathy towards my major, and a less-than-helpful advisor made for a 0.6 GPA, a lot of dumb debt, and some shame/ general crappiness issues. After a year of limbo, and four years in the Marines, I applied to Penn State and got in (and just graduated with a 3.9 from the Schreyer Honors College).
When I decided I wanted to go back to school, I didn't apply online; I actually called, made an appointment, and spoke with the admissions people in person. I explained my situation, how horrible my grades were and why. They were unfazed, apparently young folks screw up at college a lot, get some life experience, and then come back and succeed.
They were willing to let me in despite my horrible record. There was actually a term they used: 'academic forgiveness.' Better yet, since I had been in the military I qualified as an 'adult learner' (I am pretty sure working for x number of years, or being above a certain age would also qualify you as an adult learner).
Being an adult learner exempted me from re-taking the SAT's (my scores had expired), and the academic forgiveness allowed me probationary acceptance. I was under increased academic scrutiny for a period of time, and this was lifted after a semester or two (can't remember).
Your situation isn't as uncommon as you think, and if you are actually ready for college I would go and talk to the admissions people. Before you decide to pursue a degree again, really ask yourself if it's what you want, and why, and what makes this time different than the other times. If you are satisfied with the answers, approach the admissions staff with that confidence, and you should be OK.
Best of luck to you,
-A
posted by amcm at 5:25 PM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
When I decided I wanted to go back to school, I didn't apply online; I actually called, made an appointment, and spoke with the admissions people in person. I explained my situation, how horrible my grades were and why. They were unfazed, apparently young folks screw up at college a lot, get some life experience, and then come back and succeed.
They were willing to let me in despite my horrible record. There was actually a term they used: 'academic forgiveness.' Better yet, since I had been in the military I qualified as an 'adult learner' (I am pretty sure working for x number of years, or being above a certain age would also qualify you as an adult learner).
Being an adult learner exempted me from re-taking the SAT's (my scores had expired), and the academic forgiveness allowed me probationary acceptance. I was under increased academic scrutiny for a period of time, and this was lifted after a semester or two (can't remember).
Your situation isn't as uncommon as you think, and if you are actually ready for college I would go and talk to the admissions people. Before you decide to pursue a degree again, really ask yourself if it's what you want, and why, and what makes this time different than the other times. If you are satisfied with the answers, approach the admissions staff with that confidence, and you should be OK.
Best of luck to you,
-A
posted by amcm at 5:25 PM on April 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you plan to use federal financial aid to attend a new university, and you used financial aid at any of the community colleges you attended, you *must* submit past transcripts before you can receive financial aid. Once you apply for financial aid from the new school, the financial aid office will have access to a record of past financial aid received (and the schools that distributed it to you), so they'll know if you're omitting a transcript.
posted by chara at 6:28 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by chara at 6:28 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Omitting transcripts comes up on the green frequently.
General consensus: don't do it. Even if you're not caught immediately, the institution can and will retroactively revoke your degree for failing to disclose all your transcripts. That's a pretty high price to pay to avoid rejection now.
Your academic history is not something that will bar you from every reputable university in the nation or even necessarily the one you want to attend assuming you're not aiming super high. (I can't really say how the Ivy League might react to your history, but there's a chance you could convince even them.)
posted by asciident at 7:42 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
General consensus: don't do it. Even if you're not caught immediately, the institution can and will retroactively revoke your degree for failing to disclose all your transcripts. That's a pretty high price to pay to avoid rejection now.
Your academic history is not something that will bar you from every reputable university in the nation or even necessarily the one you want to attend assuming you're not aiming super high. (I can't really say how the Ivy League might react to your history, but there's a chance you could convince even them.)
posted by asciident at 7:42 PM on April 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
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You can probably get into a four-year college telling the truth about your history, though. Depends on what kinds of schools/programs you're interested in.
posted by mskyle at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2012