Can I go to med school?
August 12, 2010 2:37 PM Subscribe
I've been to two colleges. The first one, I received all W's and an F. The second one, I received all F's. Do I have a shot at medical school?
Both failures were due to depression/ADHD issues. Which I was in therapy/on medication/etc for the second time around, but apparently that didn't work.
I'd like to start over at a community college, but if I'm not in a dorm I won't have a place to stay, which limits me to community colleges with dorms - most of which are in rural areas. This is a data point because I'm assuming that my choice of really small college in really small town had a lot to do with my depression, so I'm trying to avoid that.
Another issue is that I can't get my transcripts from the first school because my Mom withdrew financial support because of my failing, and it's a $4000 balance that I can't pay off. So, I'm not sure how to even begin applying to another school.
But my ultimate question is; have I completely blown my chances at medical school? What can I do to fix this?
Both failures were due to depression/ADHD issues. Which I was in therapy/on medication/etc for the second time around, but apparently that didn't work.
I'd like to start over at a community college, but if I'm not in a dorm I won't have a place to stay, which limits me to community colleges with dorms - most of which are in rural areas. This is a data point because I'm assuming that my choice of really small college in really small town had a lot to do with my depression, so I'm trying to avoid that.
Another issue is that I can't get my transcripts from the first school because my Mom withdrew financial support because of my failing, and it's a $4000 balance that I can't pay off. So, I'm not sure how to even begin applying to another school.
But my ultimate question is; have I completely blown my chances at medical school? What can I do to fix this?
If you carry on and get all the requirements for medical school (good grades and whatever else is required), as long as you can explain your previous academic record (as you just have to us) I can't see any reason why they'd turn you away.
posted by teraspawn at 2:41 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by teraspawn at 2:41 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: To clarify - I'm still a freshman. I'm worried that once I finish school and apply, they'll take one look at my transcript (or GPA) and go, "Um, no."
posted by biochemist at 2:45 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by biochemist at 2:45 PM on August 12, 2010
I'm not aware of any central academic clearinghouse that the schools you failed out of are going to report your grades to, so why even mention the first two colleges when you apply for med school?
Given that you haven't earned any credits from either of them, and obviously aren't going to get any letters of recommendation from them, I don't see why you would submit the transcripts.
Just put the experience completely behind you and start fresh.
posted by brain at 2:51 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Given that you haven't earned any credits from either of them, and obviously aren't going to get any letters of recommendation from them, I don't see why you would submit the transcripts.
Just put the experience completely behind you and start fresh.
posted by brain at 2:51 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Nothing succeeds like success--if you do really well for the rest of your time in college and do well on the MCAT, you probably can get in somewhere (the top schools are likely out of your reach, though). It helps that this is just your freshman year.
What doesn't help is that you are in the hole to college #1 (i.e., because schools will want to be assured that they will get their tuition, and if you're not paying #1, you might not pay them).
why even mention the first two colleges when you apply for med school?
Full disclosure of all of your educational experiences dating back to high school is part of the AMCAS, and you'll have to account for any breaks in your study.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 2:53 PM on August 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
What doesn't help is that you are in the hole to college #1 (i.e., because schools will want to be assured that they will get their tuition, and if you're not paying #1, you might not pay them).
why even mention the first two colleges when you apply for med school?
Full disclosure of all of your educational experiences dating back to high school is part of the AMCAS, and you'll have to account for any breaks in your study.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 2:53 PM on August 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
I should clarify that AMCAS is the "central academic clearinghouse" that you have to go through to apply to medical schools in the United States.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 2:54 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by Admiral Haddock at 2:54 PM on August 12, 2010
You don't need to look only at schools that have dorms. You'll have to pay for the dorms just like you'd have to pay for an apartment. It sounds like you'll need to take out loans/get other financial aid and you'll be able to use that towards an apartment just as you would towards a dorm.
As for the larger issue... if you do start over, transfer to a 4-year school and graduate with good grades, yes, you should have a shot. They'll definitely look at all of your transcripts, but showing that you turned around is a good thing - and they'll naturally weight towards higher-level (year 3 and 4) classes anyway.
posted by alaijmw at 2:55 PM on August 12, 2010
As for the larger issue... if you do start over, transfer to a 4-year school and graduate with good grades, yes, you should have a shot. They'll definitely look at all of your transcripts, but showing that you turned around is a good thing - and they'll naturally weight towards higher-level (year 3 and 4) classes anyway.
posted by alaijmw at 2:55 PM on August 12, 2010
I think you should try not to worry about medical school right now. Many many people who start college intending to be physicians never even end up applying to medical school because they develop other interests or discover that they don't have quite the aptitude for the sciences they thought they did. Just start taking some community college classes. Go to whatever school is closest to where you currently live and keep living where you are living. Focus on getting good grades and learning a lot now so that you have maximal opportunities in whatever field you ultimately pursue.
posted by juliapangolin at 2:55 PM on August 12, 2010 [14 favorites]
posted by juliapangolin at 2:55 PM on August 12, 2010 [14 favorites]
Judging from your previous questions, do you really know what you want to do? Cosmetology? Aviation? Somehow I suspect that that's a more relevant question than whether you're still admissible to med school.
As well, why wouldn't you have a place to stay if you're not in a dorm? Many, many people live off-campus and not with family. This is sometimes less expensive than living in university-owned residences. I'm not sure what the issue is here; if it's a matter of not having a cosigner for a lease, landlords renting rooms to students sometimes don't care about this.
Even if you do return to school, eventually gain admission to and then graduate from a 4-year university, with strong grades, good ECs and a strong MCAT score, getting into an American allopathic (that is, one that awards an MD rather than a DO degree) could still be difficult considering how competitive admissions are. The options you may want to keep in mind include osteopathic schools (so, DO programs, but still lead to practicing medicine) or offshore medical schools in the Caribbean, Europe, Australia, or Mexico. These two options have different caveats in terms of choices of residency programs, (perceived) prestige, and licensing requirements.
I'm not aware of any central academic clearinghouse that the schools you failed out of are going to report your grades to, so why even mention the first two colleges when you apply for med school?
Oh yes there is one, at least in the US. AMCAS requires transcripts from anywhere you matriculated at, and lying will typically result in an investigation. Even the (mostly offshore) school that don't use AMCAS still need all your transcripts, do don't bet on successfully omitting information like that.
posted by thisjax at 2:57 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
As well, why wouldn't you have a place to stay if you're not in a dorm? Many, many people live off-campus and not with family. This is sometimes less expensive than living in university-owned residences. I'm not sure what the issue is here; if it's a matter of not having a cosigner for a lease, landlords renting rooms to students sometimes don't care about this.
Even if you do return to school, eventually gain admission to and then graduate from a 4-year university, with strong grades, good ECs and a strong MCAT score, getting into an American allopathic (that is, one that awards an MD rather than a DO degree) could still be difficult considering how competitive admissions are. The options you may want to keep in mind include osteopathic schools (so, DO programs, but still lead to practicing medicine) or offshore medical schools in the Caribbean, Europe, Australia, or Mexico. These two options have different caveats in terms of choices of residency programs, (perceived) prestige, and licensing requirements.
I'm not aware of any central academic clearinghouse that the schools you failed out of are going to report your grades to, so why even mention the first two colleges when you apply for med school?
Oh yes there is one, at least in the US. AMCAS requires transcripts from anywhere you matriculated at, and lying will typically result in an investigation. Even the (mostly offshore) school that don't use AMCAS still need all your transcripts, do don't bet on successfully omitting information like that.
posted by thisjax at 2:57 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If you are quite serious about medical school this is something you should ask the admissions department at several medical schools. You can go to a site such as this which will give you a frame of reference for MCAT and GPA averages at medical schools. After several years of success at a community college I would strongly encourage you to visit several medical schools of your choice and have a face to face discussion with the admissions department. Medical school are extremely competitive but also value a diversity of students. Good Luck
posted by rmhsinc at 2:59 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by rmhsinc at 2:59 PM on August 12, 2010
Forgive me for saying this, but based on your question history, I would evaluate how much and why you want to go to medical school. It's very tough from the get-go-- from pre-med coursework to studying for the MCAT to first-year classes to board exams to... Well, the list goes on and on. That's true no matter what "tier" of school you end up attending. I'm not saying you're not fully capable of doing that, but motivation to become an MD is absolutely necessary to getting through the process.
I would put med school out of your mind for the time being and work on restarting your undergraduate career. That is, don't worry about your history with colleges 1 and 2. Do well at college 3, maybe take a few pre-med classes like intro chem, physics, and biology, and reevaluate after that.
I apologize if this comes off as harsh, but if the only thing going through your mind as you try to get going again is MUST GET INTO MED SCHOOL, it's entirely likely that you'll burn out and never find the non-doctor-but-still-totally-awesome career route that's really right for you.
posted by supercres at 3:01 PM on August 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
I would put med school out of your mind for the time being and work on restarting your undergraduate career. That is, don't worry about your history with colleges 1 and 2. Do well at college 3, maybe take a few pre-med classes like intro chem, physics, and biology, and reevaluate after that.
I apologize if this comes off as harsh, but if the only thing going through your mind as you try to get going again is MUST GET INTO MED SCHOOL, it's entirely likely that you'll burn out and never find the non-doctor-but-still-totally-awesome career route that's really right for you.
posted by supercres at 3:01 PM on August 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Career-wise, my heart lies in medicine... I just never thought it was a good idea for multiple reasons (time commitment being the main one), so I tried to find other things, but eventually gave up and decided to do medicine.
I don't have a job/credit/etc, and I can't stay where I am now much longer, so unfortunately dorm room is my only shot because I can use the financial aid the school gives me to pay for it.
posted by biochemist at 3:02 PM on August 12, 2010
I don't have a job/credit/etc, and I can't stay where I am now much longer, so unfortunately dorm room is my only shot because I can use the financial aid the school gives me to pay for it.
posted by biochemist at 3:02 PM on August 12, 2010
Career-wise, my heart lies in medicine...Can you elaborate on that? What is it, exactly, about medicine that appeals to you? What aptitudes and qualities do you have that make you think you'd be good at it? How much actual exposure do you have to the medical profession?
posted by craichead at 3:06 PM on August 12, 2010
Best answer: They'll definitely look at all of your transcripts, but showing that you turned around is a good thing - and they'll naturally weight towards higher-level (year 3 and 4) classes anyway.
Yes, and no. You might want to look a little more into how med school admissions averages are calculated. Your science/math GPA (especially wrt to most med school's specific prerequsites) might be somewhat skewed towards courses at the 100 and 200 levels, and depending on how specific schools consider multiple course attempts, this could be a bit of an issue.
I don't have a job/credit/etc, and I can't stay where I am now much longer, so unfortunately dorm room is my only shot because I can use the financial aid the school gives me to pay for it.
You can use the financial aid that your school gives you to cover off-campus housing costs as well, as do many, many other students who attend community colleges and universities away from home.
posted by thisjax at 3:09 PM on August 12, 2010
Yes, and no. You might want to look a little more into how med school admissions averages are calculated. Your science/math GPA (especially wrt to most med school's specific prerequsites) might be somewhat skewed towards courses at the 100 and 200 levels, and depending on how specific schools consider multiple course attempts, this could be a bit of an issue.
I don't have a job/credit/etc, and I can't stay where I am now much longer, so unfortunately dorm room is my only shot because I can use the financial aid the school gives me to pay for it.
You can use the financial aid that your school gives you to cover off-campus housing costs as well, as do many, many other students who attend community colleges and universities away from home.
posted by thisjax at 3:09 PM on August 12, 2010
Response by poster: Hmm... I'd have to say there's two reasons. One, I find the intricacy of the human body beautiful.... I love learning about it; how everything fits together to work and keep us alive. I find it fascinating. (I could go on and on about this, but I won't.)
Second, I like the idea of helping people. I know that's a cliche answer but there you have it.
I don't have much exposure; I've been trying to do a shadowing program but I haven't been able to find a mentor. I'd have to get back to you on why I'd be good at it.
posted by biochemist at 3:11 PM on August 12, 2010
Second, I like the idea of helping people. I know that's a cliche answer but there you have it.
I don't have much exposure; I've been trying to do a shadowing program but I haven't been able to find a mentor. I'd have to get back to you on why I'd be good at it.
posted by biochemist at 3:11 PM on August 12, 2010
I don't want to do a "clip your wings" comment at all, but what about nursing instead? My community college is teeming with nursing students, and with a 2.5 GPA, you get automatic entrance into all state universities once you're done with your associate's (this is in MA). Then hey, if you still want to practice medicine, you can be an LPN! My mom's an RN and does yearly conferences where she sometimes speaks but always does a visual presentation in a hall-type setting, so it's a pretty good variety of helping and also learning and broadening horizons.
posted by kpht at 3:20 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by kpht at 3:20 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Medical student here, with a storied academic history to boot.
juliapangolin is right -- worry about succeeding in college before worrying about applying to medical school.
I would add that it doesn't make any sense to jump back into academics if you haven't come up with a solid game plan of how this attempt will differ from the last two. The absolute last thing you need right now is more poor grades and student loan debt. Focus on what's going to be different, take a class or two and make sure you can succeed in those before taking on a full load. Once you've got that settled, you'll have to transfer to a four-year institution but that's going to be a while from now.
Feel free to MeMail me if you'd like answers to more specific questions.
Good luck!
posted by mps at 3:22 PM on August 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
juliapangolin is right -- worry about succeeding in college before worrying about applying to medical school.
I would add that it doesn't make any sense to jump back into academics if you haven't come up with a solid game plan of how this attempt will differ from the last two. The absolute last thing you need right now is more poor grades and student loan debt. Focus on what's going to be different, take a class or two and make sure you can succeed in those before taking on a full load. Once you've got that settled, you'll have to transfer to a four-year institution but that's going to be a while from now.
Feel free to MeMail me if you'd like answers to more specific questions.
Good luck!
posted by mps at 3:22 PM on August 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
Being a physician is by all means not the only thing that will indulge those two criteria. In fact, in the day-to-day life of a doctor, you'll be pretty far removed from the first-- it'll be hard to see the forest for the trees.
Try not to stress about the things holding you back from what you currently see as your ideal career. You're very early in the process. You will find something that speaks to you, whether it's medicine, physiology, biology, psychology... hell, even medieval medical history. It's just so hard to tell at this point. Don't rule anything out or you'll miss a lot.
posted by supercres at 3:25 PM on August 12, 2010
Try not to stress about the things holding you back from what you currently see as your ideal career. You're very early in the process. You will find something that speaks to you, whether it's medicine, physiology, biology, psychology... hell, even medieval medical history. It's just so hard to tell at this point. Don't rule anything out or you'll miss a lot.
posted by supercres at 3:25 PM on August 12, 2010
Best answer: In fact, I would go so far as to say you're selling people like research scientists short! :)
I like to think that I have a healthy amount of wonder and awe for the amazing piece of engineering that is the human body. I have no desire to be a doctor, though, for a lot of the reasons I mentioned above. Instead, I channel it into learning about how the body (and specifically, the brain) works. Granted, it's not a direct sort of "helping people", but an altruistic mindset, a quest for truth and knowledge, does motivate me greatly.
posted by supercres at 3:42 PM on August 12, 2010
I like to think that I have a healthy amount of wonder and awe for the amazing piece of engineering that is the human body. I have no desire to be a doctor, though, for a lot of the reasons I mentioned above. Instead, I channel it into learning about how the body (and specifically, the brain) works. Granted, it's not a direct sort of "helping people", but an altruistic mindset, a quest for truth and knowledge, does motivate me greatly.
posted by supercres at 3:42 PM on August 12, 2010
getting into an American allopathic (that is, one that awards an MD rather than a DO degree) could still be difficult considering how competitive admissions are.
This may ease up a bit, with the increased need to make more doctors (particularly in primary care), post-reform. They're even opening up new schools.
That being said, don't rule out physical therapy, physician's assistant (PA), Nurse Practitioner, etc.
posted by availablelight at 3:44 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
This may ease up a bit, with the increased need to make more doctors (particularly in primary care), post-reform. They're even opening up new schools.
That being said, don't rule out physical therapy, physician's assistant (PA), Nurse Practitioner, etc.
posted by availablelight at 3:44 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
It might be worth that if you owe $4,000 to a school, you will likely be unable to get any financial aid from the school to which you are applying
posted by WhiteWhale at 4:39 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by WhiteWhale at 4:39 PM on August 12, 2010
Best answer: I would add that it doesn't make any sense to jump back into academics if you haven't come up with a solid game plan of how this attempt will differ from the last two. The absolute last thing you need right now is more poor grades and student loan debt. Focus on what's going to be different, take a class or two and make sure you can succeed in those before taking on a full load.
I'd like to second this, and suggest that you might consider getting a job in a medical support capacity -- maybe there is some admin job at a doctor's office you might be able to get?
Working and being productive and focusing on something other than the grand scheme did wonders for my depression when I was in your boat. I worked and got my undergrad one course at a time, then went to a professional school, when I was good and ready.
posted by girlpublisher at 4:48 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'd like to second this, and suggest that you might consider getting a job in a medical support capacity -- maybe there is some admin job at a doctor's office you might be able to get?
Working and being productive and focusing on something other than the grand scheme did wonders for my depression when I was in your boat. I worked and got my undergrad one course at a time, then went to a professional school, when I was good and ready.
posted by girlpublisher at 4:48 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would call the Dean of Admissions at a medical school and tell her your story and see what she says.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:06 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:06 PM on August 12, 2010
Best answer: Hmm, I read back through your other questions and it looks like you have a list of other things you wanted to be, as mentioned above. I think it might be good to go through the process of going to college, not with medical school in mind, but in finding out what you REALLY want to do. Who knows, you might end up taking a journalism class and decide to become a journalist.
I agree with the above comment that success begets success. I would say focus on each step, and when the time comes, and you have decided that medical school is the right direction for you, that you shouldn't have a problem getting in.
You may not get in your first time around either. For whatever reason, you may have to apply a couple of times, but by the time you get to that point, you should really know that that is what you want to do do.
My wife knew she wanted to be a veterinarian apparently at the age of 5. However, in college she was a business major. Afterward she remembered that she really wanted to be a vet and went back, got all the credits. She applied twice and finally got accepted. She is now in a residency program on her way to becoming an internal medicine specialist.
My point is, if you KNOW that you want to be a doctor, keep that in mind as you go through the process of college, but don't let that limit your experiences while going through the schooling process.
posted by TheBones at 5:08 PM on August 12, 2010
I agree with the above comment that success begets success. I would say focus on each step, and when the time comes, and you have decided that medical school is the right direction for you, that you shouldn't have a problem getting in.
You may not get in your first time around either. For whatever reason, you may have to apply a couple of times, but by the time you get to that point, you should really know that that is what you want to do do.
My wife knew she wanted to be a veterinarian apparently at the age of 5. However, in college she was a business major. Afterward she remembered that she really wanted to be a vet and went back, got all the credits. She applied twice and finally got accepted. She is now in a residency program on her way to becoming an internal medicine specialist.
My point is, if you KNOW that you want to be a doctor, keep that in mind as you go through the process of college, but don't let that limit your experiences while going through the schooling process.
posted by TheBones at 5:08 PM on August 12, 2010
Person currently-working-on-medical-school-prerequisites here: I agree with everyone else who's mentioned that you need to work on your SHORT game now, not your LONG game. I'd push any thoughts of medical school way, way, WAY to the back of your mind - you need to take small steps now, but to take them with confidence and forethought.
Before you can go to medical school, you need to ace the MCAT. Before you can take the MCAT, you need to get really awesome grades in a number of hard science classes at a four-year school (note: I know this is somewhat flexible, but that's the ideal). Before you can do THAT, you need to take the prerequisite science classes. You also need to fit volunteering, clinical experience and other things in there as well.
But all of that is besides the point at the moment - you need to get yourself into college classroom, in whatever science class they'll let you take, and you need to find a way to ace it. One thing at a time, kiddo. One thing at a time.
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:22 PM on August 12, 2010
Before you can go to medical school, you need to ace the MCAT. Before you can take the MCAT, you need to get really awesome grades in a number of hard science classes at a four-year school (note: I know this is somewhat flexible, but that's the ideal). Before you can do THAT, you need to take the prerequisite science classes. You also need to fit volunteering, clinical experience and other things in there as well.
But all of that is besides the point at the moment - you need to get yourself into college classroom, in whatever science class they'll let you take, and you need to find a way to ace it. One thing at a time, kiddo. One thing at a time.
posted by julthumbscrew at 6:22 PM on August 12, 2010
It might be worth seeing if you can retroactively withdraw from your F classes and your previous schools. Many universities allow this with varying degrees of hardship and proof required.
posted by the christopher hundreds at 7:11 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by the christopher hundreds at 7:11 PM on August 12, 2010
kpht--wrong! Nurses do not "practice medicine", we are nurses, RN, LVN/LPN. NONE of us practice medicine, it is against the law.
posted by 6:1 at 8:09 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by 6:1 at 8:09 PM on August 12, 2010
Maybe kpht mean NPs, Nurse Practitioners? LPNs are Licenced Practical Nurses, who are qualified to do less than RNs, not more.
posted by houseofdanie at 9:13 PM on August 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by houseofdanie at 9:13 PM on August 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Er -- Licensed. Wow, spelling fail!
posted by houseofdanie at 9:14 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by houseofdanie at 9:14 PM on August 12, 2010
My wife is a veterinarian, and meets scads of people of all ages who say they want to be veterinarians. They love animals, they like helping people, bingo.
Only, not bingo. These people very rarely succeed as veterinarians. The key indicator that you want to be a veterinarian? You're already doing anything you can like it, and you have for years. My wife fixed broken birds wings when she was 6. She studied horse anatomy books (as opposed to Misty of Chincoteague) and read and reread James Herriott when she was 10. She volunteered at vet clinics the instant she was old enough, got summer jobs doing anything she could at clinics when she was a little older, and so on.
In other words, my wife always was a vet. There was no stopping her. She didn't make a big deal about it, and it wasn't romantic to her. She would have done anything in the field if she couldn't get a regular vet job, although she did in the long run.
Can you look over your life and say that you have shown anything similar with medicine? Were you a hospital volunteer? Have you read and reread anatomy and medical case books? I would suggest that without these sort of indicators that your abstract likings of the human body and being helpful are not going to get you there.
And yes, I agree that you ought to focus on some way to make this current college experience different. Then come back and figure the rest out later.
posted by argybarg at 9:57 PM on August 12, 2010
Only, not bingo. These people very rarely succeed as veterinarians. The key indicator that you want to be a veterinarian? You're already doing anything you can like it, and you have for years. My wife fixed broken birds wings when she was 6. She studied horse anatomy books (as opposed to Misty of Chincoteague) and read and reread James Herriott when she was 10. She volunteered at vet clinics the instant she was old enough, got summer jobs doing anything she could at clinics when she was a little older, and so on.
In other words, my wife always was a vet. There was no stopping her. She didn't make a big deal about it, and it wasn't romantic to her. She would have done anything in the field if she couldn't get a regular vet job, although she did in the long run.
Can you look over your life and say that you have shown anything similar with medicine? Were you a hospital volunteer? Have you read and reread anatomy and medical case books? I would suggest that without these sort of indicators that your abstract likings of the human body and being helpful are not going to get you there.
And yes, I agree that you ought to focus on some way to make this current college experience different. Then come back and figure the rest out later.
posted by argybarg at 9:57 PM on August 12, 2010
Best answer: Dealt with depression/finally diagnosed with ADHD/really checkered post-secondary student here! Like you, I find the human body fascinating and I want to help people. Pre-ADHD diagnosis, I began (and bombed out of) "pre-med" (bio/chem double major), nursing, paramedicine...(us ADHD-ers are nothing if not persistent, eh?). I was then out of school for about a year, during which time I got diagnosed with ADHD, and last September I began a rehabilitation assistant program. Also, I have been working in a rehab hospital in a recreation/instructional capacity for almost four years (it'll be four next month).
I am happy with the path I'm on, and I'm trying to stay focused on just finishing my diploma, rather than getting ahead of myself - I am bright, and my program instructors all think that I am ultimately going to wind up being a registered therapist. Last year, I got straight A's/A+'s for the first time in my post-secondary career. Things that made this possible were:
a) A reduced course load. I'm doing ~60% of a regular course load (taking 3 or 4 classes each semester instead of 7ish). I designed a plan for myself that will let me complete the diploma in 3 years instead of 2 (and my plan may become an actual model for others - before me, there was no part-time option in my program. I think that is pretty cool!)
b) Proper medication, with regular follow-ups with my doctor. Do you have your symptoms under control - either through meds or other strategies? Have you been successfully employed or engaged in other activities that would lead you to believe that you will be able to better manage your depression/ADHD than you have in the past, when you return to an academic setting? For example, once I was on the right medication, I was actually able to *retain* knowledge! I realized that I had been needing to re-teach myself content before every single test or assessment in my prior academic studies - no wonder I was struggling!
c) Counselling. I saw a counsellor at school pretty much every. single. week. All year. Even though I didn't wind up experiencing any symptoms of depression, I wanted to keep myself mentally healthy, and figured that weekly "check-ups" would be very condusive to achieving that goal.
d) Adequate finances. We have significant debt, in large part from my prior educational misadventures. I have the school schedule I need to be able to work the number of hours I need to support healthy eating/living in a nice apartment/living in a nice neighborhood/not getting too much further into the debt hole.
I know that this won't necessarily be what you want to hear, but take it from someone who has been there, done that, and got the t-shirt - you need to take this really slowly. Start out with less than what you believe you're capable of - you can always add more courses as you go along, and get into the "success" groove. At some point, if you've racked up enough academic failures, and/or enough debt, you may not have the opportunity to go back to school.
I urge you, really really strongly, to:
1. Speak with an admissions counsellor at whichever schools you would like to apply to - they should be able to help you with transcript questions.
2. Sort out the finances. That $4000 debt has to be killing your credit rating, leaving aside the academic impact. And you will need a plan to support yourself while you're in school - what if you can't get enough financial aid to pay all of the bills? Most schools have staff in the financial aid office who can help you with this.
3. Figure out your game plan for success. What are the concrete steps (not just "try harder and this time I'll do it") that will let you complete your program this time? There are lots of ADHD coaching websites out there, helpful books to read, etc. My school has a centre for students with disabilities, and they were lovely, supportive, and helpful all year.
4. Volunteer in a local hospital - even if it's not in a "doctor-shadowing" capacity, it will help you figure out if health care is where you want to be, and what you might want to do. You may even be able to find paid work, which helps with #2.
For me, I'm on the loooong term plan for (hopefully) getting my master's. I have two more years of diploma. I hope to spend the subseqent 10ish years working, finishing my undergrad (one or two courses at a time), and having a kid or two. I'm targeting age 40 to go to grad school (still 20+ years of practice possible!). I get impatient and sad sometimes when I think about how long it's going to take, but - baby steps. I have found my calling (working in occupational and physical therapy) and that's definitely something to be grateful for.
Wow, this turned into a novel. I hope that parts, at least, are helpful!
posted by purlgurly at 11:01 PM on August 12, 2010 [6 favorites]
I am happy with the path I'm on, and I'm trying to stay focused on just finishing my diploma, rather than getting ahead of myself - I am bright, and my program instructors all think that I am ultimately going to wind up being a registered therapist. Last year, I got straight A's/A+'s for the first time in my post-secondary career. Things that made this possible were:
a) A reduced course load. I'm doing ~60% of a regular course load (taking 3 or 4 classes each semester instead of 7ish). I designed a plan for myself that will let me complete the diploma in 3 years instead of 2 (and my plan may become an actual model for others - before me, there was no part-time option in my program. I think that is pretty cool!)
b) Proper medication, with regular follow-ups with my doctor. Do you have your symptoms under control - either through meds or other strategies? Have you been successfully employed or engaged in other activities that would lead you to believe that you will be able to better manage your depression/ADHD than you have in the past, when you return to an academic setting? For example, once I was on the right medication, I was actually able to *retain* knowledge! I realized that I had been needing to re-teach myself content before every single test or assessment in my prior academic studies - no wonder I was struggling!
c) Counselling. I saw a counsellor at school pretty much every. single. week. All year. Even though I didn't wind up experiencing any symptoms of depression, I wanted to keep myself mentally healthy, and figured that weekly "check-ups" would be very condusive to achieving that goal.
d) Adequate finances. We have significant debt, in large part from my prior educational misadventures. I have the school schedule I need to be able to work the number of hours I need to support healthy eating/living in a nice apartment/living in a nice neighborhood/not getting too much further into the debt hole.
I know that this won't necessarily be what you want to hear, but take it from someone who has been there, done that, and got the t-shirt - you need to take this really slowly. Start out with less than what you believe you're capable of - you can always add more courses as you go along, and get into the "success" groove. At some point, if you've racked up enough academic failures, and/or enough debt, you may not have the opportunity to go back to school.
I urge you, really really strongly, to:
1. Speak with an admissions counsellor at whichever schools you would like to apply to - they should be able to help you with transcript questions.
2. Sort out the finances. That $4000 debt has to be killing your credit rating, leaving aside the academic impact. And you will need a plan to support yourself while you're in school - what if you can't get enough financial aid to pay all of the bills? Most schools have staff in the financial aid office who can help you with this.
3. Figure out your game plan for success. What are the concrete steps (not just "try harder and this time I'll do it") that will let you complete your program this time? There are lots of ADHD coaching websites out there, helpful books to read, etc. My school has a centre for students with disabilities, and they were lovely, supportive, and helpful all year.
4. Volunteer in a local hospital - even if it's not in a "doctor-shadowing" capacity, it will help you figure out if health care is where you want to be, and what you might want to do. You may even be able to find paid work, which helps with #2.
For me, I'm on the loooong term plan for (hopefully) getting my master's. I have two more years of diploma. I hope to spend the subseqent 10ish years working, finishing my undergrad (one or two courses at a time), and having a kid or two. I'm targeting age 40 to go to grad school (still 20+ years of practice possible!). I get impatient and sad sometimes when I think about how long it's going to take, but - baby steps. I have found my calling (working in occupational and physical therapy) and that's definitely something to be grateful for.
Wow, this turned into a novel. I hope that parts, at least, are helpful!
posted by purlgurly at 11:01 PM on August 12, 2010 [6 favorites]
On re-read, I realized I left out one other major contributor to my success - my husband. When I actually let him (read: fill him in on what's not going well, rather than trying to hide it from him), he is hugely helpful. He reminds me about what counts as "baby steps" when I want to bite off more than I can probably chew. Do you have a support person?
posted by purlgurly at 11:12 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by purlgurly at 11:12 PM on August 12, 2010
Best answer: I like the idea of helping people.
Good on you man, run with that. Just remember, there's lots of different ways you can do it.
I'm a walking, talking example of what juliapangolin talked about above. Biology was hands down my favorite topic of study in high school, and I was damn good at it, despite being color-blind. Life in all its intricacy still fascinates me, even though I am not now a doctor.
I got in to a really good undergrad institution for pre-med, one that sends a massive percentage of their successful microbiology students on to all the top med schools. I have today (a decade later) many friends who have been very successful in medicine, and they are doing what they love. But I never went to med school. I didn't even finish my degree in microbiology.
You see, about 2 years in, I went on a weekend ski trip instead of studying for some big chemistry test or something along those lines. I just needed a break. I was sick of it. My grades were OK (not stellar), I was studying hard but not well, and I was SURROUNDED by uber-competitive classmates. It was driving me nuts. And as I sat there on a ski-lift, next to 3 dudes who had just discovered I was studying pre-med, I got some half-joking words of advice.
You see, of those 3 guys - who had all gone to the same school - one was finishing med school and starting his residency. The other two, one was in business and the other finance. They told me if I wasn't hands down positive that a doctor was the only thing I wanted to be, bag it now. The two non-docs pointed out how they had been making bank for almost 5 years now, while their doc friend could barely afford a day of skiing.
It got me thinking. Was I still passionate about this? After a while, I was able to say, authoritatively: NO. I didn't want to spend 6 more years in school and then a few more in residency before finally becoming a doctor, surrounded by all these over-achieving, competitive nerds.
Now, that did pose a problem: what *was* I going to do *now*? But that's not the point of the story. The point is that there are a dearth of options, I found the right one for me eventually, and now 10 years down the road I find myself in a job that helps people, every day, with a focus on work that fascinates me (supply chain / logistics, which in a way is a life-system at a macro level, now that I actually stop to think about it). I paid off all my undergrad student loans, and have been saving money like a mad man ever since.
Right now what you need is what Bob Wiley needed in What About Bob: baby steps. Baby steps like taking one or maybe two (max) community college courses, baby steps like getting a part-time job that you can juggle with the courses - so you can save up and pay off that 4k you can't pay right now, baby steps like getting some regular counseling and medication.
I'm reminded of the classic Zen story:
A student asked a Zen Master,
‘If I work very hard,
how long will it take for me to realise Zen?’
The Master replied,
‘Ten years.’
The student replied,
‘If I work very very hard,
how long will it take for me to realise Zen?’
The Master replied,
‘Twenty years.’
The student replied,
‘If I work very very very hard,
how long will it take for me to realise Zen?’
The Master replied,
‘Thirty years.’
The student replied,
‘But, I don’t understand…
why does it take longer when I work harder?
The Master replied,
‘When you have one eye on the goal, you only have one eye on the path.’
You need to turn a bit more focus to the path at this juncture.
posted by allkindsoftime at 4:35 AM on August 13, 2010 [7 favorites]
Good on you man, run with that. Just remember, there's lots of different ways you can do it.
I'm a walking, talking example of what juliapangolin talked about above. Biology was hands down my favorite topic of study in high school, and I was damn good at it, despite being color-blind. Life in all its intricacy still fascinates me, even though I am not now a doctor.
I got in to a really good undergrad institution for pre-med, one that sends a massive percentage of their successful microbiology students on to all the top med schools. I have today (a decade later) many friends who have been very successful in medicine, and they are doing what they love. But I never went to med school. I didn't even finish my degree in microbiology.
You see, about 2 years in, I went on a weekend ski trip instead of studying for some big chemistry test or something along those lines. I just needed a break. I was sick of it. My grades were OK (not stellar), I was studying hard but not well, and I was SURROUNDED by uber-competitive classmates. It was driving me nuts. And as I sat there on a ski-lift, next to 3 dudes who had just discovered I was studying pre-med, I got some half-joking words of advice.
You see, of those 3 guys - who had all gone to the same school - one was finishing med school and starting his residency. The other two, one was in business and the other finance. They told me if I wasn't hands down positive that a doctor was the only thing I wanted to be, bag it now. The two non-docs pointed out how they had been making bank for almost 5 years now, while their doc friend could barely afford a day of skiing.
It got me thinking. Was I still passionate about this? After a while, I was able to say, authoritatively: NO. I didn't want to spend 6 more years in school and then a few more in residency before finally becoming a doctor, surrounded by all these over-achieving, competitive nerds.
Now, that did pose a problem: what *was* I going to do *now*? But that's not the point of the story. The point is that there are a dearth of options, I found the right one for me eventually, and now 10 years down the road I find myself in a job that helps people, every day, with a focus on work that fascinates me (supply chain / logistics, which in a way is a life-system at a macro level, now that I actually stop to think about it). I paid off all my undergrad student loans, and have been saving money like a mad man ever since.
Right now what you need is what Bob Wiley needed in What About Bob: baby steps. Baby steps like taking one or maybe two (max) community college courses, baby steps like getting a part-time job that you can juggle with the courses - so you can save up and pay off that 4k you can't pay right now, baby steps like getting some regular counseling and medication.
I'm reminded of the classic Zen story:
A student asked a Zen Master,
‘If I work very hard,
how long will it take for me to realise Zen?’
The Master replied,
‘Ten years.’
The student replied,
‘If I work very very hard,
how long will it take for me to realise Zen?’
The Master replied,
‘Twenty years.’
The student replied,
‘If I work very very very hard,
how long will it take for me to realise Zen?’
The Master replied,
‘Thirty years.’
The student replied,
‘But, I don’t understand…
why does it take longer when I work harder?
The Master replied,
‘When you have one eye on the goal, you only have one eye on the path.’
You need to turn a bit more focus to the path at this juncture.
posted by allkindsoftime at 4:35 AM on August 13, 2010 [7 favorites]
Having dealt with depression in college, acheived a spotty academic past, and now starting clinicals in Medical School, I can say it is totally do able. That being said a few things to remember:
1.) GET WELL FIRST. then worry about everything else. You will be asked in an interview if you can guarantee that those issues are behind you.
2.) It is early on worring about medical school. Focus on doing well in college. Consider it as someone is telling you you cant, and so you want to prove them wrong with every fiber of your being.
3.) Medical Schools in the US may be a bit apprehensive to take someone with a single F on their transcript. I went through the cycle twice and ultimately decided that I wanted to be a physician more than anything else and decided to go to a respected and established medical school in the US. I will be doing my clinicals in NYC and Baltimore starting September, and in 2 years will have a full MD degree. If you feel strongly enough about medicine to mortgage your life and move to make it happen, then its a good sign that you should actually do it.
4.) Finally, Med school is not for the weak. There is a ridiculously high attrition rate. THere is also a ridiculously high rate of students falling to depression (1 out of 4). Because of this, its important that given your past, you go into it feeling good, and having all the tools needed to keep yourself motivated and productive. Its a high stress environment and so you have to manage your past to prevent it from overtaking you.
feel free to MeMail me if you have any other questions.
posted by Heliochrome85 at 7:55 AM on August 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
1.) GET WELL FIRST. then worry about everything else. You will be asked in an interview if you can guarantee that those issues are behind you.
2.) It is early on worring about medical school. Focus on doing well in college. Consider it as someone is telling you you cant, and so you want to prove them wrong with every fiber of your being.
3.) Medical Schools in the US may be a bit apprehensive to take someone with a single F on their transcript. I went through the cycle twice and ultimately decided that I wanted to be a physician more than anything else and decided to go to a respected and established medical school in the US. I will be doing my clinicals in NYC and Baltimore starting September, and in 2 years will have a full MD degree. If you feel strongly enough about medicine to mortgage your life and move to make it happen, then its a good sign that you should actually do it.
4.) Finally, Med school is not for the weak. There is a ridiculously high attrition rate. THere is also a ridiculously high rate of students falling to depression (1 out of 4). Because of this, its important that given your past, you go into it feeling good, and having all the tools needed to keep yourself motivated and productive. Its a high stress environment and so you have to manage your past to prevent it from overtaking you.
feel free to MeMail me if you have any other questions.
posted by Heliochrome85 at 7:55 AM on August 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
You might be able to pay for school now using a credit card to pay initially, making payments as the semester progresses. I think after a semester of good grades, you might be able to persuade you mom into continuing financial support, as you've shown that you're serious about school.
posted by indigo4963 at 8:05 AM on August 13, 2010
posted by indigo4963 at 8:05 AM on August 13, 2010
Go to a school where you can get good grades - B+ or higher and really learn the material. Also, call around to all the medical schools you are interested in and ask them about your situation. Good luck!
posted by happywhite at 2:15 PM on November 1, 2010
posted by happywhite at 2:15 PM on November 1, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Electrius at 2:39 PM on August 12, 2010 [2 favorites]