Bribing myself to not skip class with turntables!
January 18, 2012 7:53 PM Subscribe
This semester I decided that I didn't want to skip class and that I would reward myself if I went to every lecture. Well, yesterday I had the idea of getting a turntable. I know right? Sounds sweet.
I know that music is hard, and that jazz. This is meant to be a really fun, whimsical something for myself.
How realistic is this? I know nothing about this... Where can I learn more? Do you know of any particularly good sources of equipment reviews and stuff like that?
I know that music is hard, and that jazz. This is meant to be a really fun, whimsical something for myself.
How realistic is this? I know nothing about this... Where can I learn more? Do you know of any particularly good sources of equipment reviews and stuff like that?
Best answer: do you want a $200 turntable or a $2,000 turntable. or a $20,000 turntable
posted by facetious at 7:57 PM on January 18, 2012
posted by facetious at 7:57 PM on January 18, 2012
Response by poster: @mkb: mix and scratch, hehehe.
@facetious: I'm looking in the sub $1000 range.
posted by Strass at 7:59 PM on January 18, 2012
@facetious: I'm looking in the sub $1000 range.
posted by Strass at 7:59 PM on January 18, 2012
Best answer: You'll need two of them, and a mixer. You can get two Numark TTXs for around $700. $300 buys a decent mixer from any of the usual suspects. Alas, the Technics SL1200 are out of production and will cost you a pretty penny.
posted by mkb at 8:08 PM on January 18, 2012
posted by mkb at 8:08 PM on January 18, 2012
man i bought myself a Pro-Ject Debut III a little while back and it is bodacious, but it's a listener not a scratcher. try to find technics, they are the best dj turntables, or so my dj friends used to say.
posted by facetious at 8:13 PM on January 18, 2012
posted by facetious at 8:13 PM on January 18, 2012
SL1200s going for +$1k apiece nowadays.
posted by mkb at 8:17 PM on January 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mkb at 8:17 PM on January 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: The Numark V7 and X5 look like a really nice combo. Does anybody have experience with these types? I will probably have to go digital since I honestly have no clue where I would get vinyl.
posted by Strass at 8:30 PM on January 18, 2012
posted by Strass at 8:30 PM on January 18, 2012
Best answer: Hi, I used to be a DJ.
If you want to be a DJ these days, turntables are not the be-all and end-all, and vinyl turntables are not any more common than CD turntables, and almost no one actually plays records on turntables any more.
There are basically two schools of DJing -- one is using actual turntables, vinyl or otherwise, with some kind of timecoded disks and Serrato or Final Scratch and a laptop.
The other school is using a laptop and midi controllers as with Ableton Live.
Which you choose depends mostly on how you want to DJ. If you're more interested in music production and live remixing, Ableton is the way to go. If you're more interested in scratching and turntablism, obviously you need turntables.
If you want to go Ableton Live (the way I ended up going), that's a whole other topic, so I'm just going to focus on turntables.
If you're getting vinyl, get a pair of Technics 1200 used from ebay. They're fairly inexpensive used and those things are built like a mac truck and last forever and every club in the world that still has vinyl turntables still uses these. You'll also want a pair of slipmats so the records will move.
If you're getting a CD turntable, you're going to get Pioneer CDJ's, any model. Those are pretty much the club standard, and you can scratch and cue on them.
You're also want to get a mixer. Get any two channel mixer with a cross fader and eqs. Eventually you're going to want to get a nice one with a bunch of effects and shit, but honestly, just go to guitar center, tell them you're trying to learn and you just want a cheap two channel mixer.
Now, how to beat match:
First, buy any two house records (or two trance records or techno, anything with a four to the floor kick dream).
At first you don't want to mix. Just put a record on and start counting. Every kick drum is a beat. On every second beat, you'll hear a snare or a clap. Just start counting with the first kick drum like this:
1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4,3-2-3-4,4-2-3-4, etc... Every 4 beats is a bar. Every 2nd and 4th beat is snare or a clap.
You'll notice patterns that repeat every four beats, every 8 beats, every 16 beats, every 32 beats, and so on, those are called 'phrases'. Learn to recognize them, because you need to find the one beat when you're mixing.
Here's a trance example.
Start counting from the beginning, notice that at 16 beats (4 bars), the hi-hats start, then 16 beats later a synth starts, then 16 beats later something else comes in, etc... This is really common in dance music. New phrases start every 4 bars, usually. You need to be able to find the beginning of those bars. That just comes from practice and listening to a lot of songs, it becomes second nature, but until you can do that, just count.
Okay, now grab a second record. Cue it up in the headphones (ask the guy at Guitar Center to show you how cueing works). Turn off the first record for now.
Put your hand on the label and spin it forward until you hear the kick, then put your hand on the outside of the record and run it back and forth while you listen to it in your headphone and count.
Count 1 (move it forward) 2 (move it backward) 3 (move it forward) 4 (backward) 2(forward) 2(backward) 3(forward), and so on, just like you were counting before.
Then after 4 2 3 4, release it on 5. Just let it go, don't push it. This is going to be the first beat after a 4 bar phrase.
Okay, now here is the hard part. Put the first record on and just let it play on the speakers. Start counting. While you're counting, find the first beat of the second record, and let it play on your headphones. While you're counting the beats of the first record, move the second record back and forth. When you get to the next phrase, let it go, just like you practiced.
If you did it right, it should sound good for about 2 or 3 seconds until you discover that not all dance records are made at the speed.
Now is one pitch control comes in. And lots of practice. With your left hand you're going to lightly tap edge of the moving platter (not the record) to slow it down, or you're going to grab the spindle and twist it forward to speed it up. You're just trying to get the beats to line up. And after they do, you're listening to try and figure out which record is faster. This is impossible to do at first. This is the most time consuming part. It takes literally months of hours-a-day practice to be able to figure this out. But when you do figure it out, you adjust the pitch control accordingly on the record you're listening to on the headphones.. Then you recue the second record to the first beat again, count and release again. Hopefully it's better, but it probably won't be.
When the record playing on the speaker runs out, start it over again, and keep trying. It will probably take you hours to get two records mixed together the first time. Just keep at it. It gets easier every time.
Mixing on CDJ is similar, except you use the ring around the cd display to shift the song forward or back. Other than that, it's basically identical.
After you figure out trance or house, try something with breakbeats like hip-hop, jungle or dubstep. When you're mixing breakbeats, the only thing that's different is you have to focus on the 2 and 4 beats, because they will usually have snares still and the 1 beat, which will still have a kick, and ignore all the other kicks, because they will just confuse you.
Then you can start messing around with scratching, after you learn to beatmatch, which is a whole other set of skills which I never learned, but you have to start with beatmatching as a bare minimum.
posted by empath at 8:35 PM on January 18, 2012 [36 favorites]
If you want to be a DJ these days, turntables are not the be-all and end-all, and vinyl turntables are not any more common than CD turntables, and almost no one actually plays records on turntables any more.
There are basically two schools of DJing -- one is using actual turntables, vinyl or otherwise, with some kind of timecoded disks and Serrato or Final Scratch and a laptop.
The other school is using a laptop and midi controllers as with Ableton Live.
Which you choose depends mostly on how you want to DJ. If you're more interested in music production and live remixing, Ableton is the way to go. If you're more interested in scratching and turntablism, obviously you need turntables.
If you want to go Ableton Live (the way I ended up going), that's a whole other topic, so I'm just going to focus on turntables.
If you're getting vinyl, get a pair of Technics 1200 used from ebay. They're fairly inexpensive used and those things are built like a mac truck and last forever and every club in the world that still has vinyl turntables still uses these. You'll also want a pair of slipmats so the records will move.
If you're getting a CD turntable, you're going to get Pioneer CDJ's, any model. Those are pretty much the club standard, and you can scratch and cue on them.
You're also want to get a mixer. Get any two channel mixer with a cross fader and eqs. Eventually you're going to want to get a nice one with a bunch of effects and shit, but honestly, just go to guitar center, tell them you're trying to learn and you just want a cheap two channel mixer.
Now, how to beat match:
First, buy any two house records (or two trance records or techno, anything with a four to the floor kick dream).
At first you don't want to mix. Just put a record on and start counting. Every kick drum is a beat. On every second beat, you'll hear a snare or a clap. Just start counting with the first kick drum like this:
1-2-3-4, 2-2-3-4,3-2-3-4,4-2-3-4, etc... Every 4 beats is a bar. Every 2nd and 4th beat is snare or a clap.
You'll notice patterns that repeat every four beats, every 8 beats, every 16 beats, every 32 beats, and so on, those are called 'phrases'. Learn to recognize them, because you need to find the one beat when you're mixing.
Here's a trance example.
Start counting from the beginning, notice that at 16 beats (4 bars), the hi-hats start, then 16 beats later a synth starts, then 16 beats later something else comes in, etc... This is really common in dance music. New phrases start every 4 bars, usually. You need to be able to find the beginning of those bars. That just comes from practice and listening to a lot of songs, it becomes second nature, but until you can do that, just count.
Okay, now grab a second record. Cue it up in the headphones (ask the guy at Guitar Center to show you how cueing works). Turn off the first record for now.
Put your hand on the label and spin it forward until you hear the kick, then put your hand on the outside of the record and run it back and forth while you listen to it in your headphone and count.
Count 1 (move it forward) 2 (move it backward) 3 (move it forward) 4 (backward) 2(forward) 2(backward) 3(forward), and so on, just like you were counting before.
Then after 4 2 3 4, release it on 5. Just let it go, don't push it. This is going to be the first beat after a 4 bar phrase.
Okay, now here is the hard part. Put the first record on and just let it play on the speakers. Start counting. While you're counting, find the first beat of the second record, and let it play on your headphones. While you're counting the beats of the first record, move the second record back and forth. When you get to the next phrase, let it go, just like you practiced.
If you did it right, it should sound good for about 2 or 3 seconds until you discover that not all dance records are made at the speed.
Now is one pitch control comes in. And lots of practice. With your left hand you're going to lightly tap edge of the moving platter (not the record) to slow it down, or you're going to grab the spindle and twist it forward to speed it up. You're just trying to get the beats to line up. And after they do, you're listening to try and figure out which record is faster. This is impossible to do at first. This is the most time consuming part. It takes literally months of hours-a-day practice to be able to figure this out. But when you do figure it out, you adjust the pitch control accordingly on the record you're listening to on the headphones.. Then you recue the second record to the first beat again, count and release again. Hopefully it's better, but it probably won't be.
When the record playing on the speaker runs out, start it over again, and keep trying. It will probably take you hours to get two records mixed together the first time. Just keep at it. It gets easier every time.
Mixing on CDJ is similar, except you use the ring around the cd display to shift the song forward or back. Other than that, it's basically identical.
After you figure out trance or house, try something with breakbeats like hip-hop, jungle or dubstep. When you're mixing breakbeats, the only thing that's different is you have to focus on the 2 and 4 beats, because they will usually have snares still and the 1 beat, which will still have a kick, and ignore all the other kicks, because they will just confuse you.
Then you can start messing around with scratching, after you learn to beatmatch, which is a whole other set of skills which I never learned, but you have to start with beatmatching as a bare minimum.
posted by empath at 8:35 PM on January 18, 2012 [36 favorites]
SL1200s going for +$1k apiece nowadays.
Fuck are they really? I sold a pair for $400 a couple of years ago :(
posted by empath at 8:36 PM on January 18, 2012
Fuck are they really? I sold a pair for $400 a couple of years ago :(
posted by empath at 8:36 PM on January 18, 2012
Honestly, if you're going to drop a grand on turntables, get CDJs. More clubs use them these days anyway. There's absolutely no reason to get vinyl turntables unless you have a huge collection of vinyl records you want to spin with.
posted by empath at 8:37 PM on January 18, 2012
posted by empath at 8:37 PM on January 18, 2012
Best answer: As for how to get gigs.
Go to clubs a lot. Big clubs, small clubs, underground warehouse parties, house parties. Talk to everyone. Introduce yourself to DJs, especially locals and opening djs who don't have a big draw, get their emails. Go to after parties. Do what you can to help promoters (facebook, flyering, etc). Always bring your friends to every party or show you go to. Ask about guest lists and get you and your friends on them.
Watch DJs work. Watch the crowd, watch how the DJ responds to the crowd and vice versa. Get song ids for everything you like. Follow producers and labels on facebook. Download DJ mixes. Get mixes from local DJs. Don't get too hung up on 'dj tricks', they are such a tiny part of what makes a good dj good, that you can ignore them entirely for the first few years and just focus on beatmatching and track selection.
Go music shopping every week, even if you don't buy anything. Subscribe to every music blog you can. Try mixing everything with everything else. Don't focus too much on one genre or subgenre, don't even focus on dance music.
Force yourself dance to even if you suck at it, and stay on the dance floor from open to close as much as you can.
When you want to start djing in front of people, just start at after parties and house parties, don't be pushy. It's best if it's at your own house party, and you've also invited a bunch of other djs to play. Eventually you'll get asked to play at other people's parties and eventually at clubs, etc.
One mistake a lot of beginning DJs make is "It's all about the music." It has to be about that for you, but you have to know that for promoters it's all about the money. Be the guy that brings people to their party, even when you aren't DJing. Decent local DJs are a dime a dozen. Decent DJs that draw are worth their weight in gold.
posted by empath at 9:01 PM on January 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Go to clubs a lot. Big clubs, small clubs, underground warehouse parties, house parties. Talk to everyone. Introduce yourself to DJs, especially locals and opening djs who don't have a big draw, get their emails. Go to after parties. Do what you can to help promoters (facebook, flyering, etc). Always bring your friends to every party or show you go to. Ask about guest lists and get you and your friends on them.
Watch DJs work. Watch the crowd, watch how the DJ responds to the crowd and vice versa. Get song ids for everything you like. Follow producers and labels on facebook. Download DJ mixes. Get mixes from local DJs. Don't get too hung up on 'dj tricks', they are such a tiny part of what makes a good dj good, that you can ignore them entirely for the first few years and just focus on beatmatching and track selection.
Go music shopping every week, even if you don't buy anything. Subscribe to every music blog you can. Try mixing everything with everything else. Don't focus too much on one genre or subgenre, don't even focus on dance music.
Force yourself dance to even if you suck at it, and stay on the dance floor from open to close as much as you can.
When you want to start djing in front of people, just start at after parties and house parties, don't be pushy. It's best if it's at your own house party, and you've also invited a bunch of other djs to play. Eventually you'll get asked to play at other people's parties and eventually at clubs, etc.
One mistake a lot of beginning DJs make is "It's all about the music." It has to be about that for you, but you have to know that for promoters it's all about the money. Be the guy that brings people to their party, even when you aren't DJing. Decent local DJs are a dime a dozen. Decent DJs that draw are worth their weight in gold.
posted by empath at 9:01 PM on January 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
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posted by mkb at 7:57 PM on January 18, 2012