Creepy creeper?
January 11, 2012 12:41 PM Subscribe
Help me understand what is and how not to be a creep/er online? (snowflake details inside)
Due to severe anxiety I am an extremely socially awkward person. I do somewhat fine in real life, since I am currently without a job and spend most of my time home, where I don't have to engage with anyone else besides my partner (who knows about my troubles) and my pets.
Online, however, is another problem altogether. I spend most of my time browsing the internet, where I generally have a nice time, but there are things that get to me and recently I saw something very nasty happen in one of the websites I visit. I've made friends in this website and it freaked me out big time to see them turn on someone else for little to no reason and shun this person out as a 'major creeper'.
I've also have had a few incidents in the past that concluded with major panic attacks where the word/concept of creeper/creepy was involved.
Hence my question. I realize that casual online friendship are not generally regarded as 'a big deal' but I'd really like to understand why or what makes someone a creeper (so I can avoid becoming one myself and avoid the extra anxiety) and how to make myself realize that maybe being creepy is not a big deal as my brain seems to think it is?
I know I could just avoid human contact online like I do in real life, but I do enjoy having a good time with others who share the same interests as me.
Due to severe anxiety I am an extremely socially awkward person. I do somewhat fine in real life, since I am currently without a job and spend most of my time home, where I don't have to engage with anyone else besides my partner (who knows about my troubles) and my pets.
Online, however, is another problem altogether. I spend most of my time browsing the internet, where I generally have a nice time, but there are things that get to me and recently I saw something very nasty happen in one of the websites I visit. I've made friends in this website and it freaked me out big time to see them turn on someone else for little to no reason and shun this person out as a 'major creeper'.
I've also have had a few incidents in the past that concluded with major panic attacks where the word/concept of creeper/creepy was involved.
Hence my question. I realize that casual online friendship are not generally regarded as 'a big deal' but I'd really like to understand why or what makes someone a creeper (so I can avoid becoming one myself and avoid the extra anxiety) and how to make myself realize that maybe being creepy is not a big deal as my brain seems to think it is?
I know I could just avoid human contact online like I do in real life, but I do enjoy having a good time with others who share the same interests as me.
It's really hard to answer this question without more specifics about what the "creepy" behavior in question is, but I find that a helpful rule in online conversations/relationships is to (1) treat others as you would want to be treated, and (2) realize that online conversations are devoid of the nuance that conversations in person (or even on the phone) have.
posted by dfriedman at 12:47 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by dfriedman at 12:47 PM on January 11, 2012
Best answer: You just want to be sure you're not overstepping people's boundaries. That is, if someone just wants to chat online and you're showing up at their house, you are definitely a creeper (even if, and this is the part people struggle to understand sometimes, you're there to do something super-nice like drop off a new car you bought them). If they're simply emailing you and you're sending back pictures of your junk, you are a creeper.
How to avoid creeperness? First, gently ease into things and don't go wildly overboard. Baby steps. That way, they have an opportunity to gently remind you to back off instead of cutting you off altogether.
Second, try to keep your relationships appropriately contained. If you're friends with someone in a forum, keep your friendship on the forum unless the other person is comfortable expanding it (and here, proceed slowly), which will almost never occur. Don't put them on your Christmas card list. Don't go googling them and checking out their Facebook page, and their brother's Facebook page.
And bear in mind that an accusation of creepiness is not a conviction. People throw words around all the time and sometimes they're completely wrong.
posted by Nahum Tate at 12:49 PM on January 11, 2012 [13 favorites]
How to avoid creeperness? First, gently ease into things and don't go wildly overboard. Baby steps. That way, they have an opportunity to gently remind you to back off instead of cutting you off altogether.
Second, try to keep your relationships appropriately contained. If you're friends with someone in a forum, keep your friendship on the forum unless the other person is comfortable expanding it (and here, proceed slowly), which will almost never occur. Don't put them on your Christmas card list. Don't go googling them and checking out their Facebook page, and their brother's Facebook page.
And bear in mind that an accusation of creepiness is not a conviction. People throw words around all the time and sometimes they're completely wrong.
posted by Nahum Tate at 12:49 PM on January 11, 2012 [13 favorites]
First of all, are you sure you know all the details about the person deemed by the site members as a creep? Maybe he or she was sending disturbing private messages to other people, or maybe someone had met him or her in person and found them not to be the same offline as on. I once witnessed a situation where a guy was contacting female site members and sending them suggestive, obsessive, and unwanted messages. No one knew what to do about it or felt they could say anything publicly because this guy's wife was also a member, and she was universally liked and respected.
Basically, you probably don't know the whole story. Also consider that tight-knit communities can sometimes, unfortunately, give way to catty cliques. Someone might be ousted for no reason other than a personal feud with one person. Who knows?
Just be yourself, observe boundaries and the basic rules of etiquette. Don't lose sleep over what has happened to someone else. There could be a whole variety of factors you just didn't see.
posted by katillathehun at 12:50 PM on January 11, 2012
Basically, you probably don't know the whole story. Also consider that tight-knit communities can sometimes, unfortunately, give way to catty cliques. Someone might be ousted for no reason other than a personal feud with one person. Who knows?
Just be yourself, observe boundaries and the basic rules of etiquette. Don't lose sleep over what has happened to someone else. There could be a whole variety of factors you just didn't see.
posted by katillathehun at 12:50 PM on January 11, 2012
Response by poster: Don't want to thread sit, but here are the details. I witnessed it all (was on a forum-like setting), minus any private messaging, obviously.
The person was labelled as a major creeper for having checked someone's profile online (if they were active or not) after sending them a message and waiting a long time (more than a month, according to them) for a reply.
That was basically what happened and the person got literally ripped apart for it.
posted by Trexsock at 12:53 PM on January 11, 2012
The person was labelled as a major creeper for having checked someone's profile online (if they were active or not) after sending them a message and waiting a long time (more than a month, according to them) for a reply.
That was basically what happened and the person got literally ripped apart for it.
posted by Trexsock at 12:53 PM on January 11, 2012
Response by poster: Uh, not literally, of course. Sorry.
posted by Trexsock at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Trexsock at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
I've got no science to back this up, but "creeper" usually applies to someone who either said some sort of Transgressive Sex Thing, or tried to get too close too fast and either revealed way too much about themselves, or asked some really intrusive questions (see: Transgressive Sex Thing) or revealed that they knew (via cyberstalking, usually) more information about a person than was offered by that person or violated some boundaries in some other way.
On preview: unless one of us is missing something, that doesn't sound very creepy at all. Are you sure there's not more context around that?
posted by griphus at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2012
On preview: unless one of us is missing something, that doesn't sound very creepy at all. Are you sure there's not more context around that?
posted by griphus at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2012
Someone's profile on the same web forum, or on a different one (i.e. Facebook or whatever)?
posted by downing street memo at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by downing street memo at 12:54 PM on January 11, 2012
Response by poster: Downing street memo - I really don't know the answer for that, but I assume that not on facebook or any website like that since we don't use our real names in the forum. The way I read the person's message was just that they had noticed their message recipient was online often and hadn't replied to them.
posted by Trexsock at 12:57 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by Trexsock at 12:57 PM on January 11, 2012
Hrm. That does have a tiny creep factor, I've got to admit. ("Why haven't you responded to my message? I know you've been online.") But not one worth figuratively tearing someone apart for.
posted by downing street memo at 1:00 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by downing street memo at 1:00 PM on January 11, 2012
Since you didn't witness the interactions that prompted one person to identify the other person as a "creeper" (I am presuming that's the case; I am finding your story a bit hard to follow) on the website itself, I'm not sure you can come to a well-informed conclusion about what the alleged "creeper" did and whether or not the creep-ee was justified in making that identification.
However, it's not appropriate to say to someone "I see you are online a lot; why don't you answer my email/IM/whatever?" Sometimes silence is an answer.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:01 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
However, it's not appropriate to say to someone "I see you are online a lot; why don't you answer my email/IM/whatever?" Sometimes silence is an answer.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:01 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
After seeing your last comment, I think the "creepy" factor was that the message sender publicly called the receiver out about it. The receiver is under no obligation to reply to any message. In many cases, not replying is the most socially-gracious option, as opposed to having to send a potentially awkward or embarrassing reply.
By making the issue public, it feels like the sender is trying to publicly shame the receiver. I think it backfired.
posted by halseyaa at 1:02 PM on January 11, 2012 [9 favorites]
By making the issue public, it feels like the sender is trying to publicly shame the receiver. I think it backfired.
posted by halseyaa at 1:02 PM on January 11, 2012 [9 favorites]
The thing is "I witnessed it all, except for the private messaging" means you didn't witness it all, and you may not have witnessed most of it. People who really are creepers to fellow denizens of internet boards are generally just passive-aggressive in public and save the true creepiness for PMs, emails, and similar.
Then again, the person who called "Creeper!" might be a jerk who is prone to overreacting. I'm not sure how useful this whole interaction can be to you as a cautionary tale, just because so much information is lacking.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:03 PM on January 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
Then again, the person who called "Creeper!" might be a jerk who is prone to overreacting. I'm not sure how useful this whole interaction can be to you as a cautionary tale, just because so much information is lacking.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:03 PM on January 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Also, people sometimes do google or otherwise seek information about interesting people on forums...and by "people" I mean "I have occasionally done this because I wanted to see if they'd written anything else or posted anywhere else regularly". But if you do this, don't bring in stuff from your googling - if you find out that someone posts on another forum, or has interesting hobbies or has lurid secrets, don't talk about them on the initial forum (or at all!) And don't get super-obsessed about people's personal stuff - it's one thing to figure out if someone posts elsewhere; it's another to try to find out where they live and work. Just don't get into that headspace.
Most people I know use "creeper" to refer to stalking or sexual harassment. If you find yourself messaging a person you might find attractive in a way that you wouldn't message a person you wouldn't find attractive, step back. IME, it's okay to follow someone over to another blog/forum if they link it or have in some way indicated that their connection. It's a bit creepy to just pop up and say hello.
If someone is hurt or disturbed by something you said, apologize ("I'm sorry I [thing]. I get that it [made you uncomfortable/was too personal/was racist/etc] and I will be more [thoughtful/responsible/appropriate] in the future" and then think about what you posted and make sure you understand why it was upsetting so that you can evaluate your future posts.
Don't post when you're hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
But also work on having some autonomous sense of self-worth. There may come a day when you post something perfectly suitable and the forum will be what's messed up, and you'll get a pile-on. Or you'll post something innocuous that will be totally misconstrued. I've recently watched one of my very favorite commenters get banned at a blog I like because of what seems clearly to me a difference in communication styles and some political echo-chamber stuff. The commenter is probably bummed out, but he shouldn't feel bad about himself.
posted by Frowner at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2012 [9 favorites]
Most people I know use "creeper" to refer to stalking or sexual harassment. If you find yourself messaging a person you might find attractive in a way that you wouldn't message a person you wouldn't find attractive, step back. IME, it's okay to follow someone over to another blog/forum if they link it or have in some way indicated that their connection. It's a bit creepy to just pop up and say hello.
If someone is hurt or disturbed by something you said, apologize ("I'm sorry I [thing]. I get that it [made you uncomfortable/was too personal/was racist/etc] and I will be more [thoughtful/responsible/appropriate] in the future" and then think about what you posted and make sure you understand why it was upsetting so that you can evaluate your future posts.
Don't post when you're hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
But also work on having some autonomous sense of self-worth. There may come a day when you post something perfectly suitable and the forum will be what's messed up, and you'll get a pile-on. Or you'll post something innocuous that will be totally misconstrued. I've recently watched one of my very favorite commenters get banned at a blog I like because of what seems clearly to me a difference in communication styles and some political echo-chamber stuff. The commenter is probably bummed out, but he shouldn't feel bad about himself.
posted by Frowner at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2012 [9 favorites]
Yeah, the lesson you need to take away from this is keep private communication private and don't noodge people who aren't being responsive.
posted by griphus at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:04 PM on January 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
I've made friends in this website and it freaked me out big time to see them turn on someone else for little to no reason and shun this person out as a 'major creeper'.
Just remember that it's really common on the internet (and hey, IRL too) that when a person wants to get someone else shunned for whatever reason, they will grab at the closest thing that they think will be effective. Regardless if it's true or not.
So half of it is not actually being a creeper, and everyone else has got that covered. The other half is to remember that someone might call you one even if you're not at all just because they want to get you shunned.
My advice on how to avoid that is to just observe people and how they act. Are they into getting people shunned? Do they bully others? Do they lie about others/twist scenarios? Can they not handle people disagreeing with them or not doing exactly what they want? Are they spiteful? And so on and so on. Also some people seem on the surface to be super nice and can hide these traits, and don't ever seem spiteful, but you notice there is a trail of people behind them who they didn't get along with, and it seems they were never at fault in those situations? Never being at all at fault in any way is actually a really good indicator that someone is like this.
When you notice someone like that, just stay far far away from them. Just try not to interact with them even when they are nice to you and even if they're in your social circle, just be pleasant with them while avoiding any direct interactions.
Luckily, if enough people know you well enough and have observed your behavior over time, and someone they don't know as well steps in and throws extreme accusations at you, that person will look like the crazy one. So just make sure lots of people know you and have never seen you do anything remotely creepy. Then you will be fairly well protected from that.
posted by cairdeas at 1:05 PM on January 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just remember that it's really common on the internet (and hey, IRL too) that when a person wants to get someone else shunned for whatever reason, they will grab at the closest thing that they think will be effective. Regardless if it's true or not.
So half of it is not actually being a creeper, and everyone else has got that covered. The other half is to remember that someone might call you one even if you're not at all just because they want to get you shunned.
My advice on how to avoid that is to just observe people and how they act. Are they into getting people shunned? Do they bully others? Do they lie about others/twist scenarios? Can they not handle people disagreeing with them or not doing exactly what they want? Are they spiteful? And so on and so on. Also some people seem on the surface to be super nice and can hide these traits, and don't ever seem spiteful, but you notice there is a trail of people behind them who they didn't get along with, and it seems they were never at fault in those situations? Never being at all at fault in any way is actually a really good indicator that someone is like this.
When you notice someone like that, just stay far far away from them. Just try not to interact with them even when they are nice to you and even if they're in your social circle, just be pleasant with them while avoiding any direct interactions.
Luckily, if enough people know you well enough and have observed your behavior over time, and someone they don't know as well steps in and throws extreme accusations at you, that person will look like the crazy one. So just make sure lots of people know you and have never seen you do anything remotely creepy. Then you will be fairly well protected from that.
posted by cairdeas at 1:05 PM on January 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Can you have your partner give you an analysis whenever you think you might be in questionable creeper territory? That way you may begin to learn how to sense it. Unless he/she is a creeper too.
posted by spicynuts at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by spicynuts at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012
I think people are put off when they discover that someone else has been "interacting" with them without them realising it. Repeatedly checking someone's profile to see if they're online is like an extremely watered down version of using a telescope to check if they're in bed at night.
posted by lucidium at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by lucidium at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Okay, I really wish I could edit the OP with this info to clarify everyone, but here it goes
Person A made a post (on the forum, everyone can see it) about how they had send a message to person B asking them something and never got a reply back even though they're online. Lots of others on the forum promptly rip person A apart for their post and label them a creeper/creepy.
I am confused because I don't feel this is creepy at all, as I'd probably feel the same way person A did if I never got a got a reply (though I would not make my feelings public). I don't understand the 'creepy' part of this.
Mostly,do understand how the other creepy things mentioned here are creepy though. So thanks a lot for the clarifications.
posted by Trexsock at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012
Person A made a post (on the forum, everyone can see it) about how they had send a message to person B asking them something and never got a reply back even though they're online. Lots of others on the forum promptly rip person A apart for their post and label them a creeper/creepy.
I am confused because I don't feel this is creepy at all, as I'd probably feel the same way person A did if I never got a got a reply (though I would not make my feelings public). I don't understand the 'creepy' part of this.
Mostly,do understand how the other creepy things mentioned here are creepy though. So thanks a lot for the clarifications.
posted by Trexsock at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012
The person was labelled as a major creeper for having checked someone's profile online (if they were active or not) after sending them a message and waiting a long time (more than a month, according to them) for a reply.
This is not great; if someone doesn't want to answer you they don't want to answer, not much to do about it but move on.
That said, "creeper" is a very popular word, especially among girls/women in their 20s or younger. It means anything from "actual stalker/dangerous person" to "person who I don't find attractive who expressed interest in me." I wouldn't put too much stock in it- some people say mean things. "Creeper" is often just a slightly more sophisticated version of, "Ewwwww he's gross!"
When you notice someone like that, just stay far far away from them. Just try not to interact with them even when they are nice to you and even if they're in your social circle, just be pleasant with them while avoiding any direct interactions.
This is very good advice.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is not great; if someone doesn't want to answer you they don't want to answer, not much to do about it but move on.
That said, "creeper" is a very popular word, especially among girls/women in their 20s or younger. It means anything from "actual stalker/dangerous person" to "person who I don't find attractive who expressed interest in me." I wouldn't put too much stock in it- some people say mean things. "Creeper" is often just a slightly more sophisticated version of, "Ewwwww he's gross!"
When you notice someone like that, just stay far far away from them. Just try not to interact with them even when they are nice to you and even if they're in your social circle, just be pleasant with them while avoiding any direct interactions.
This is very good advice.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:07 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Person A made a post (on the forum, everyone can see it) about how they had send a message to person B asking them something and never got a reply back even though they're online. Lots of others on the forum promptly rip person A apart for their post and label them a creeper/creepy.
Now that you clarified, I think the issue is just that personal communication should stay personal. Person A should have just followed up with B, "hey just wanted to check in about ____" instead of taking it public. But taking it public isn't really "creepy," just a little jerky.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:09 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Now that you clarified, I think the issue is just that personal communication should stay personal. Person A should have just followed up with B, "hey just wanted to check in about ____" instead of taking it public. But taking it public isn't really "creepy," just a little jerky.
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:09 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Person A made a post (on the forum, everyone can see it) about how they had send a message to person B asking them something and never got a reply back even though they're online. Lots of others on the forum promptly rip person A apart for their post and label them a creeper/creepy.
For whatever it's worth, it seems like people were reacting to 2 things here:
1. Person A seems to have a sense of entitlement like person B owes them a reply. And owes it within a certain time frame. That's not something I would call "creepy" though. I would just say, they seem like they feel entitled to things that others don't actually owe them.
2. Person A took something private and seemingly made it public in order to get everyone to shame Person B. Doing something like that is going to really backfire in your face if more people actually sympathize with person B. So the takeaway there is, don't try to get a bunch of people to gang up on your side in scenarios like this because it could backfire and they could gang up on you instead.
posted by cairdeas at 1:11 PM on January 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
For whatever it's worth, it seems like people were reacting to 2 things here:
1. Person A seems to have a sense of entitlement like person B owes them a reply. And owes it within a certain time frame. That's not something I would call "creepy" though. I would just say, they seem like they feel entitled to things that others don't actually owe them.
2. Person A took something private and seemingly made it public in order to get everyone to shame Person B. Doing something like that is going to really backfire in your face if more people actually sympathize with person B. So the takeaway there is, don't try to get a bunch of people to gang up on your side in scenarios like this because it could backfire and they could gang up on you instead.
posted by cairdeas at 1:11 PM on January 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
Person A made a post (on the forum, everyone can see it) about how they had send a message to person B asking them something and never got a reply back even though they're online. Lots of others on the forum promptly rip person A apart for their post and label them a creeper/creepy.
Person A did 2 things that are "creeper"esque
1) tracked the online-ness of Person B
2) called out Person B, publicly, for not responding to Person A in a way Person A thought they should, regardless of what Person B wanted.
I'm guessing on gender here, but think about a real-life analogy, where a girl is not interested in a guy who is hitting on her, and as a result he gets pushy or violent or calls her a whore. This actually happens. So when very similar action moves online, especially when Person A made a private communication (or lack thereof) public, it is understandably off-putting. It's ok for Person A to be a little put out and upset that Person B didn't respond, but Person B has no obligation to respond, and Person A should not have checked to see if Person B was online, and should definitely not have made that information public.
posted by brainmouse at 1:12 PM on January 11, 2012 [9 favorites]
Person A did 2 things that are "creeper"esque
1) tracked the online-ness of Person B
2) called out Person B, publicly, for not responding to Person A in a way Person A thought they should, regardless of what Person B wanted.
I'm guessing on gender here, but think about a real-life analogy, where a girl is not interested in a guy who is hitting on her, and as a result he gets pushy or violent or calls her a whore. This actually happens. So when very similar action moves online, especially when Person A made a private communication (or lack thereof) public, it is understandably off-putting. It's ok for Person A to be a little put out and upset that Person B didn't respond, but Person B has no obligation to respond, and Person A should not have checked to see if Person B was online, and should definitely not have made that information public.
posted by brainmouse at 1:12 PM on January 11, 2012 [9 favorites]
Yeah, I don't see the creepy bit. It's kind of a dick move -- it's a passive-aggressive public callout of something that is (probably) best left unaired and/or handled privately -- but it's not creepy as such.
I'm not even convinced it would be creepy, necessarily, to follow the links in a person's profile and/or get in contact with them that way -- with the MAJOR caveat that you should read between the lines of Person B not getting back to you despite being active in one forum and figure that they are not likely to welcome your reaching out to them in another forum.
So: go forth and be ye not passive-aggressive.
posted by gauche at 1:17 PM on January 11, 2012
I'm not even convinced it would be creepy, necessarily, to follow the links in a person's profile and/or get in contact with them that way -- with the MAJOR caveat that you should read between the lines of Person B not getting back to you despite being active in one forum and figure that they are not likely to welcome your reaching out to them in another forum.
So: go forth and be ye not passive-aggressive.
posted by gauche at 1:17 PM on January 11, 2012
Best answer: But you don't know what the original message was about, right? What if it was asking for a date or something too personal? And the non-responder was all "oh, I don't want to say 'no'/I don't want to get into this/I don't want to meet this person/I don't want to explain about my sexuality....so I just won't respond and hope he gets the hint/forgets about it"?
If you ask someone something personal and then find out that they're checking to see when you're on line....that's a bit creepy. Also, it suggests that the asker has exceedingly poor boundaries, which makes people (especially women) a bit nervous, since if someone has poor boundaries you don't know if you're going to get the Screaming Call of Crazy.
Have you had people misinterpret or freak out over your actions multiple times in the past? Have you had girls/guys act uneasy because you're paying too much attention to them? If not, you're probably fine.
Here is a thing: we anxious people tend to look at someone who gets in trouble and identify with them. This can be a powerful force for good ("three-strikes legislation is totally fucked up!") BUT it can also be a force for evil ("If I accidentally said that, I would TOTALLY never have meant it to be racist, so that dude can't have meant to be racist, because he must be just like me!") or a force for personal misery ("I bet I could make a mistake just like that one and get torn apart!") Probably just by worrying about your behavior, you are making it extremely unlikely that people will think you're creepy.
posted by Frowner at 1:22 PM on January 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
If you ask someone something personal and then find out that they're checking to see when you're on line....that's a bit creepy. Also, it suggests that the asker has exceedingly poor boundaries, which makes people (especially women) a bit nervous, since if someone has poor boundaries you don't know if you're going to get the Screaming Call of Crazy.
Have you had people misinterpret or freak out over your actions multiple times in the past? Have you had girls/guys act uneasy because you're paying too much attention to them? If not, you're probably fine.
Here is a thing: we anxious people tend to look at someone who gets in trouble and identify with them. This can be a powerful force for good ("three-strikes legislation is totally fucked up!") BUT it can also be a force for evil ("If I accidentally said that, I would TOTALLY never have meant it to be racist, so that dude can't have meant to be racist, because he must be just like me!") or a force for personal misery ("I bet I could make a mistake just like that one and get torn apart!") Probably just by worrying about your behavior, you are making it extremely unlikely that people will think you're creepy.
posted by Frowner at 1:22 PM on January 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
If you're a grown adult and no one has ever called you creepy and you've never stalked anyone, you're fine imho. The creepiness starts young.
posted by fshgrl at 1:36 PM on January 11, 2012
posted by fshgrl at 1:36 PM on January 11, 2012
I'd probably feel the same way person A did if I never got a got a reply (though I would not make my feelings public).
And creepiness is not about how you feel, it's about what you do as a result of those feelings. You just said that while you sympathize with what person A was feeling, you would not behave the way they did. Your instincts are appropriate, and you are on the right path to not making mistakes that could be considered creepy.
posted by EvaDestruction at 1:42 PM on January 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
And creepiness is not about how you feel, it's about what you do as a result of those feelings. You just said that while you sympathize with what person A was feeling, you would not behave the way they did. Your instincts are appropriate, and you are on the right path to not making mistakes that could be considered creepy.
posted by EvaDestruction at 1:42 PM on January 11, 2012 [8 favorites]
Person B is ignoring Person A for whatever reason. Person A hunts down their information and tracks them online and seems mildly obsessed with tracking Person B's activity, then calls them out.
Regardless if it was a personal question or not, Person A needs to take a hint and move on with their life. They are being annoying, stalker-ish and self-important.
posted by rich at 1:45 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Regardless if it was a personal question or not, Person A needs to take a hint and move on with their life. They are being annoying, stalker-ish and self-important.
posted by rich at 1:45 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Trexsock, if you message someone, and they do not reply, then the best bet is that they do not want to message you for whatever reason. Maybe follow up with a "Hey, how are you doing" message a couple days after the first, but after that leave them alone.
Exceptions:
- You're in a really close relationship with the person, have known them for a long time, and this behavior is totally out of the blue
- You know this particular person is flaky and tends to forget to return messages or procrastinate
It sounds like in this situation Person B (the person being messaged) and Person A (the person messaging) were not in either of these situations. In which case the "creepy" part is Person A not taking the hint that Person B wasn't interested. Is there any chance Person A is a boy, Person B is a girl, and Person A was romantically interested? Because that definitely sends out "creeper" signals. Especially if the messaging was done on a dating website. When someone ignores your messages on a dating website, it means they aren't interested.
posted by Anonymous at 1:56 PM on January 11, 2012
Exceptions:
- You're in a really close relationship with the person, have known them for a long time, and this behavior is totally out of the blue
- You know this particular person is flaky and tends to forget to return messages or procrastinate
It sounds like in this situation Person B (the person being messaged) and Person A (the person messaging) were not in either of these situations. In which case the "creepy" part is Person A not taking the hint that Person B wasn't interested. Is there any chance Person A is a boy, Person B is a girl, and Person A was romantically interested? Because that definitely sends out "creeper" signals. Especially if the messaging was done on a dating website. When someone ignores your messages on a dating website, it means they aren't interested.
posted by Anonymous at 1:56 PM on January 11, 2012
I once made a comment on a Facebook friend's photo that I thought was innocuous. I'm a male in my 30's, she's a female in her 20's. We were FB friends, but I actually knew her sister a lot better than I knew her.
She responded with a rant about how my comment was inappropriate and creepy and that I didn't know her well enough to make such comments. It made me feel really bad, like I had crossed some boundary I didn't know about. I immediately apologized and removed her from my friends list because I didn't want her to be uncomfortable.
FWIW - the girl works/worked as an exotic dancer and I have a feeling she was a bit more sensitive about comments from men, especially older ones. But I still felt terrible for even *appearing* creepy in her eyes.
posted by tacodave at 1:56 PM on January 11, 2012
She responded with a rant about how my comment was inappropriate and creepy and that I didn't know her well enough to make such comments. It made me feel really bad, like I had crossed some boundary I didn't know about. I immediately apologized and removed her from my friends list because I didn't want her to be uncomfortable.
FWIW - the girl works/worked as an exotic dancer and I have a feeling she was a bit more sensitive about comments from men, especially older ones. But I still felt terrible for even *appearing* creepy in her eyes.
posted by tacodave at 1:56 PM on January 11, 2012
I am confused because I don't feel this is creepy at all, as I'd probably feel the same way person A did if I never got a got a reply (though I would not make my feelings public). I don't understand the 'creepy' part of this.
I think the "creepy" part is making these feelings public.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 2:01 PM on January 11, 2012
I think the "creepy" part is making these feelings public.
posted by easy, lucky, free at 2:01 PM on January 11, 2012
Liken it to this situation;
Person A called Person B and left a phone message that was never returned.
Person A then found out that Person B went to the same coffee house every day where people they mutally knew also went.
So Person A showed up after a month at the coffee house and yells "I called you a month ago, and I know you come here every day for the past month! Why didn't you return my call?"
posted by rich at 2:03 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Person A called Person B and left a phone message that was never returned.
Person A then found out that Person B went to the same coffee house every day where people they mutally knew also went.
So Person A showed up after a month at the coffee house and yells "I called you a month ago, and I know you come here every day for the past month! Why didn't you return my call?"
posted by rich at 2:03 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I am confused because I don't feel this is creepy at all, as I'd probably feel the same way person A did if I never got a got a reply (though I would not make my feelings public). I don't understand the 'creepy' part of this.
There's nothing wrong or weird about feeling that way. It's making that public announcement you wouldn't make that's the problem. I could understand labeling that "creepy" -- it's kind of possessive. Probably a lot of people do a certain amount of secret checking up on people or looking around at what they do elsewhere online, but they don't generally tell that person "oh, I googled you and found x, y, and z," because it would make that person uncomfortable (it's one thing to search for people and be distantly aware that they can search for you, it's quite another to be told) and make the googler look like a person who is comfortable making people feel watched. (There are exceptions, sure -- somebody you're already good friends with, possibly somebody you're dating if you want to make a jokey confession of it and exchange information, because of course you would look each other up, right?) Given that, it is remarkably tone-deaf and unaware to announce to a forum, "I've been cyber-stalking this member and they should have answered my message by now because they really were here," with the totally backwards idea that the rest of the forum will jump on the person who hasn't been answering. There is something creepy in a sense of self-entitlement and possessiveness ("this person owes me their time because I wrote to them, and it is reasonable to hold them publicly accountable") so strong that it can make a person overlook widely-held social norms and try to use a whole group of people to shame somebody into paying attention to you.
This behavior strikes me as evidence of a mindset very, very far from your socially anxious one; I think you'd have to get to a much happier medium before you got close to it.
posted by Adventurer at 2:12 PM on January 11, 2012
There's nothing wrong or weird about feeling that way. It's making that public announcement you wouldn't make that's the problem. I could understand labeling that "creepy" -- it's kind of possessive. Probably a lot of people do a certain amount of secret checking up on people or looking around at what they do elsewhere online, but they don't generally tell that person "oh, I googled you and found x, y, and z," because it would make that person uncomfortable (it's one thing to search for people and be distantly aware that they can search for you, it's quite another to be told) and make the googler look like a person who is comfortable making people feel watched. (There are exceptions, sure -- somebody you're already good friends with, possibly somebody you're dating if you want to make a jokey confession of it and exchange information, because of course you would look each other up, right?) Given that, it is remarkably tone-deaf and unaware to announce to a forum, "I've been cyber-stalking this member and they should have answered my message by now because they really were here," with the totally backwards idea that the rest of the forum will jump on the person who hasn't been answering. There is something creepy in a sense of self-entitlement and possessiveness ("this person owes me their time because I wrote to them, and it is reasonable to hold them publicly accountable") so strong that it can make a person overlook widely-held social norms and try to use a whole group of people to shame somebody into paying attention to you.
This behavior strikes me as evidence of a mindset very, very far from your socially anxious one; I think you'd have to get to a much happier medium before you got close to it.
posted by Adventurer at 2:12 PM on January 11, 2012
The person was labelled as a major creeper for having checked someone's profile online (if they were active or not) after sending them a message and waiting a long time (more than a month, according to them) for a reply.
This exact thing happened to me a long time ago on a forum I no longer frequent and it was indeed creepy.
1. Person assumes they are entitled to someone's time/energy.
2. Person takes their demand public in order to garner support/shame someone into interacting with them, a tactic which is designed to work well on women because we're brainwashed into thinking we have to be nice all the time.
3. Person monitors someone's behavior as part of said efforts to control their behavior or force a desired interaction.
In my case it wasn't even that they were inappropriate private messages- the guy just thought that his deep musings about his cat and the universe were so important that I was obligated to respond. In my case it was after a sequence of about fifteen private messages in a row over the course of several hours that I decided Mr. Philosopher was not going to calm down about having some attention and civility.
posted by winna at 2:17 PM on January 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
This exact thing happened to me a long time ago on a forum I no longer frequent and it was indeed creepy.
1. Person assumes they are entitled to someone's time/energy.
2. Person takes their demand public in order to garner support/shame someone into interacting with them, a tactic which is designed to work well on women because we're brainwashed into thinking we have to be nice all the time.
3. Person monitors someone's behavior as part of said efforts to control their behavior or force a desired interaction.
In my case it wasn't even that they were inappropriate private messages- the guy just thought that his deep musings about his cat and the universe were so important that I was obligated to respond. In my case it was after a sequence of about fifteen private messages in a row over the course of several hours that I decided Mr. Philosopher was not going to calm down about having some attention and civility.
posted by winna at 2:17 PM on January 11, 2012 [6 favorites]
Everyone else has done a fabulous job of pointing out how not to be creepy in general--don't cross personal boundaries--but winna said something specific I want to highlight: don't assume or act like you are entitled to anyone else's time, energy, or attention. Of course it's a little (but only a little) different if we're talking about SOs, close friends, or family members, but for me, that right there is where harmless, friendly social interaction instantly turns creepy and maybe even a little scary.
IRL example: I am walking in a public area, going about my business, and a strange guy tells me he thinks I'm pretty. I find this flattering and non-creepy, so I say "Thanks, that's sweet!" and keep walking. He follows and immediately asks me my name, and I say, "I'm so sorry, I've got to meet a friend" and keep walking. The point at which this becomes creepy: he keeps following me, and says something along the lines of, "Hey, I just want to talk!" This is where I make sure my cell phone is in my hand and I start walking a lot more quickly. Probably he's just a harmless dude who really wants my number, but because he's suddenly acting like he's entitled to my attention and continuing to pursue me even though I am clearly either not interested or really in a hurry, I am weirded out and offended.
Online can be a little fuzzier, because everyone has different notions of personal privacy boundaries, which may be different from what their personal privacy boundaries appear to be based on what, where, and how they post, but the same principle applies: don't feel entitled to their time and attention. We're friends on Metafilter and you add me on LiveJournal? Sure, okay, that's fine. I don't add you back and you start Memailing me asking me why? Verging into inappropriate unless we've got a very well-established close friendship. Continuing to message me even when I am ignoring your messages, or discussing my lack of response in a public post somewhere? Definitely creepy, and kind of jerkish, too, even if I am arguably being a jerk by ignoring your messages instead of saying, "Hey, I enjoy chatting with you but am not comfortable with you reading my friends-only LiveJournal posts."
Also kinda creepy: adding someone who doesn't know who you are to all your social networks without sending them a short message saying, "I'm Bob, and our mutual friend Carol thinks we'd enjoy each other's posts." Not quite relevant to any of the other examples discussed, but I wanted to mention it because it's happened to me a few times and I've felt a little creeped-out. Not in an everyone-pile-onto-this-person-and-shun-them-from-our-community sort of way, but because it's just weird and inappropriate for someone I don't know to request access to all my social networks without introducing themselves. It's like a stranger showing up uninvited to a party and just hanging around and not introducing themselves.
It sounds like you're not the sort of person who would do any of this, but I wanted to point it out because sometimes it can be subtle and done with the very best of intentions, and because it can be a helpful way to understand often confusing and inconsistent personal boundaries.
posted by rhiannonstone at 3:18 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
IRL example: I am walking in a public area, going about my business, and a strange guy tells me he thinks I'm pretty. I find this flattering and non-creepy, so I say "Thanks, that's sweet!" and keep walking. He follows and immediately asks me my name, and I say, "I'm so sorry, I've got to meet a friend" and keep walking. The point at which this becomes creepy: he keeps following me, and says something along the lines of, "Hey, I just want to talk!" This is where I make sure my cell phone is in my hand and I start walking a lot more quickly. Probably he's just a harmless dude who really wants my number, but because he's suddenly acting like he's entitled to my attention and continuing to pursue me even though I am clearly either not interested or really in a hurry, I am weirded out and offended.
Online can be a little fuzzier, because everyone has different notions of personal privacy boundaries, which may be different from what their personal privacy boundaries appear to be based on what, where, and how they post, but the same principle applies: don't feel entitled to their time and attention. We're friends on Metafilter and you add me on LiveJournal? Sure, okay, that's fine. I don't add you back and you start Memailing me asking me why? Verging into inappropriate unless we've got a very well-established close friendship. Continuing to message me even when I am ignoring your messages, or discussing my lack of response in a public post somewhere? Definitely creepy, and kind of jerkish, too, even if I am arguably being a jerk by ignoring your messages instead of saying, "Hey, I enjoy chatting with you but am not comfortable with you reading my friends-only LiveJournal posts."
Also kinda creepy: adding someone who doesn't know who you are to all your social networks without sending them a short message saying, "I'm Bob, and our mutual friend Carol thinks we'd enjoy each other's posts." Not quite relevant to any of the other examples discussed, but I wanted to mention it because it's happened to me a few times and I've felt a little creeped-out. Not in an everyone-pile-onto-this-person-and-shun-them-from-our-community sort of way, but because it's just weird and inappropriate for someone I don't know to request access to all my social networks without introducing themselves. It's like a stranger showing up uninvited to a party and just hanging around and not introducing themselves.
It sounds like you're not the sort of person who would do any of this, but I wanted to point it out because sometimes it can be subtle and done with the very best of intentions, and because it can be a helpful way to understand often confusing and inconsistent personal boundaries.
posted by rhiannonstone at 3:18 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Assuming person A is male and person B is female, I can explain. If they are not, my explanation is probably nothing to do with it and something else is going on.
Women are frequently the recipients of creepy guys who insist that they deserve our attention. These kind of people start with very minor pestering. Once the pestering starts it can escalate unbelievably quickly - from "hey baby" to "bitch", to getting in your personal space, and thence potentially to sexual assault and/or rape. Such creepy guys are very persistent, they are difficult to get rid of once they get going, and you will be hard pressed to find a woman who's never been on the receiving end of one of them.
Person A, no matter how non-creepy they may personally be, has mimicked precisely the behaviour of the above referenced turdbags. Namely, following B around, acting like B owes them attention, and publicly calling out B when they don't get that attention. Person A may not be a creeper, but they are displaying behaviour which most women will instantly recognise as the calling card of real live creepers - and dangerous ones at that.
We can't afford to avoid these signals, even if it means we sometimes blow off friendly guys for reasons that seem incomprehensible if you have never seen this creepy guy thing happen for real. If you are a guy you have probably never seen it, because they don't do it when you're looking.
posted by emilyw at 3:39 PM on January 11, 2012 [12 favorites]
Women are frequently the recipients of creepy guys who insist that they deserve our attention. These kind of people start with very minor pestering. Once the pestering starts it can escalate unbelievably quickly - from "hey baby" to "bitch", to getting in your personal space, and thence potentially to sexual assault and/or rape. Such creepy guys are very persistent, they are difficult to get rid of once they get going, and you will be hard pressed to find a woman who's never been on the receiving end of one of them.
Person A, no matter how non-creepy they may personally be, has mimicked precisely the behaviour of the above referenced turdbags. Namely, following B around, acting like B owes them attention, and publicly calling out B when they don't get that attention. Person A may not be a creeper, but they are displaying behaviour which most women will instantly recognise as the calling card of real live creepers - and dangerous ones at that.
We can't afford to avoid these signals, even if it means we sometimes blow off friendly guys for reasons that seem incomprehensible if you have never seen this creepy guy thing happen for real. If you are a guy you have probably never seen it, because they don't do it when you're looking.
posted by emilyw at 3:39 PM on January 11, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think what makes this situation creepy is Person A's implication that because Person B is online, Person B owes Person A their attention/response.
Just because I am online doesn't mean that I am obligated to respond to someone who sends me a message that I don't want to respond to.
It's a little bit like decathecting's analogy of people believing that, based on (their opinion of) your looks, you owe them a dollar. I've run into this attitude in real life—occasionally, when I've ignored, politely declined, or just casually brushed off a man's advances, the man has done things like exclaim loudly in a public place, "HEY, I WAS JUST TRYING TO TALK TO YOU." It's a reaction that privileges his desire to "talk to me" far above my autonomy and my right to decline to engage with him.
posted by Orinda at 7:09 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just because I am online doesn't mean that I am obligated to respond to someone who sends me a message that I don't want to respond to.
It's a little bit like decathecting's analogy of people believing that, based on (their opinion of) your looks, you owe them a dollar. I've run into this attitude in real life—occasionally, when I've ignored, politely declined, or just casually brushed off a man's advances, the man has done things like exclaim loudly in a public place, "HEY, I WAS JUST TRYING TO TALK TO YOU." It's a reaction that privileges his desire to "talk to me" far above my autonomy and my right to decline to engage with him.
posted by Orinda at 7:09 PM on January 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
My take is the main 'creeper' part of this is Person A continuously checking someone's profile, especially after sending a message that is not responded to.
Repeated profile checking in this context makes some people think of pre-stalking obsessive behavior, and Person A unwittingly outed themselves trying to call out Person B. I've noticed users do some crazy repeated profile checking on sites I've worked on, and I bet it's more common than less compulsive people think, but it's going to bother some users in a lot of online communities (and if Person A exhibited that sort of entitlement in the past people are going to gang up on them pretty quickly).
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2012
Repeated profile checking in this context makes some people think of pre-stalking obsessive behavior, and Person A unwittingly outed themselves trying to call out Person B. I've noticed users do some crazy repeated profile checking on sites I've worked on, and I bet it's more common than less compulsive people think, but it's going to bother some users in a lot of online communities (and if Person A exhibited that sort of entitlement in the past people are going to gang up on them pretty quickly).
posted by yeahyeahyeahwhoo at 7:21 AM on January 12, 2012
This thread is closed to new comments.
I can't think of any guidelines for avoiding creepiness, but I think if you generally stick to not pursuing people offline or in other web forums without their permission, you'll be fine.
posted by downing street memo at 12:46 PM on January 11, 2012 [2 favorites]