How to co-parent effectively?
September 12, 2011 11:43 AM   Subscribe

How can I effectively co-parent with a hostile ex?

I'm involved in an occasionally emotionally abusive relationship. Occasional because we're not together any longer (never married). But we're going to have a kid together in January, which means we're going to have some type of relationship for the rest of our lives.

My ex is cunning, resilient, and hostile when she feels threatened. I'm not really any of these things. As a lawyer with kids, she has extensive experience with family court. The father of her kids rarely sees them now (not by his choice), and his relationship with my ex is toxic (I do not know the details, but I do know that he's late on child support).

My fear is that if I do the co-parenting discussions and negotiations on my own I'm going to get steamrolled into a position where everybody loses.

My idea is to set up some type of support system that can help me navigate the various challenges that I will encounter in the foreseeable future. This would span having effective conversations with my ex, making decisions about the child, navigating emotional strains, discussing legal options, and being a good father, among others. I'm not looking for a group of lawyers who can guarantee sole custody of my future kid, but I do want help figuring out the best thing for the child, and then figuring out how I can work with my ex to give that to her.

I am lucky to have family and friends to turn to. But I think I need both a widely-casted net that could draw insight from a number of areas (a blog?), as well as some sort of in-person advisory board of people who know me well.

My questions are: is this a good idea? What types of resources may help? Where can I start? How can I get the help I need? How can I find a good lawyer?

Thanks in advance.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (21 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
I think you might be using the wrong terminology to describe what you're ultimately going to need to do. The "co" in "co-parenting" is for COoperation. It sounds like you're not going to be getting that because your ex is hostile and emotionally abusive. It's not too late to try cooperation, to try to stay optimistic, and to hope that things can change for the best. But your job as a new parent isn't to try and fit parenting into a hopeful mold, your job will be to make the best possible decisions for you new baby. Pragmatically speaking, only a minority of exes with kids have a cooperative, collaborative coparenting arrangement. Most have a custody arrangement. Start thinking in those terms. That may involve your support system, but what it really involves is a lawyer. Hopefully someone else here can tell you how to find a good one.

Your first best way of determining how ruthless you'll need that lawyer to be is to contact your ex and ask her how she envisions parenting your new baby as a team. Her response ("It's mine, don't bother trying to assert your parental rights" versus "We'll figure it out when it's born") will help you determine what you're dealing with so you can convey that intention to your lawyer.
posted by juniperesque at 11:54 AM on September 12, 2011


You absolutely need to start with a lawyer. Do you have friends who are lawyers, of any kind? Ask them who they would hire if they needed a family law/custody specialist? Attorneys in your community will likely know who is the best among them in a particular specialty.

It is not a good idea to seek the advice of non-lawyers in what seems destined to become a legal situation. Your ex is a lawyer, and she seems likely to turn hostile. That means that you need to protect yourself and your child now.

Do not blog about your ex or your child. Anything you say publicly (including this AskMe, by the way), could be used against you in later custody proceedings. For example, when you describe your ex negatively here, that could be used as evidence that you're hostile towards her and are the cause of problems in your relationship. I'm not saying that's true; I'm saying that a lawyer could use your words against you to make it seem true.

Stop writing publicly about your ex, find a lawyer, and then do exactly what that lawyer says. If your ex is able to keep her other children from their father (and the fact that he owes her child support has absolutely nothing to do with his children's right to see him), she could attempt to do the same to you. Don't give her more ammunition. Find a good lawyer (now, before your child is born) and do what your lawyer says to do.
posted by decathecting at 11:55 AM on September 12, 2011 [2 favorites]


You could begin by contacting the mods and asking them to make this post anonymous. Given your description of the situation, it doesn't seem unlikely that your ex could track down this post and find a way to use it against you.
posted by alms at 11:57 AM on September 12, 2011


The best way to find a lawyer is to ask another lawyer. If you live in MA, I have got the referral for you, most definitely.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:58 AM on September 12, 2011




How can I effectively co-parent with a hostile ex?

You can't. Forget about it. Is your ex trying to get back together with you?

is this a good idea?

Coparenting? In theory, sure! Coparenting with your combative ex? No, it is not.

What types of resources may help?

A good, solid lawyer. Read the "mens rights" websites but leave the woe is me-ness there. Get the information. You have no idea what you're in for, and crushing depression and indignance isn't going to really help. You need a lawyer. If I was standing next to you right now, I would make you call one.

How can I get the help I need?

By talking to others in the same situation. I'd recommend pogo fuzzybutt if he is around. I would also do as others have suggested, and get this made anonymous.

You describe your ex as cunning, resilient and hostile when threatened, and you make it sound like she is controlling. She is a lawyer. I'm just going to tell you like this. I have seen guys who have kids with a woman they are not with. In most of the cases I have seen, the woman is either really reasonable, and just wants the father to be around and see the child, and could take or leave child support, OR, are like you described your ex.

You are about to be in the fight of your life, until at least 2030. Get a good lawyer before the end of this month. Someone you feel comfortable with. Because trying to play nice and think you can reason with this person who you describe as emotionally abusive is a losing idea, and you're already down big in this game. You probably don't want it to be a game. You probably want to just see your child and do things 50/50.

Forget it. I do not know what makes this situation the way it is for the person you're trying to deal with, but when you imagine that worst case scenario? It will be worse than that. She will feel threatened by your existence, period, so forget about her ever being sane and rational. Don't count on that at all. The internet is littered with stories like these, if you think I am being harsh.

I wish I knew why these women (as you describe your ex) respond this way. I am aware of several grown men who have cried over these situations, when things just do not make sense. When the requests you make are reasonable. When you're put through the ringer by the state at her unsympathetic insistence. Don't try to make sense of the things that happen - get a lawyer and enforce your rights in response to all the things that are about to happen to you. Be a standup guy, be nice, be honorable, but above all, realize that nothing you do is going to earn you goodwill or stop her from flinging you around like a rag doll in court, and to your child.

Based on the way you describe her, I say with all sincerity, get a lawyer, get ready to play hardball, and may God have mercy on you son. May God have mercy on you. Because I don't really think you understand what is about to happen to you.
posted by rakim at 12:27 PM on September 12, 2011 [5 favorites]


Laaaaaawyer. Especially because SHE is a lawyer. If you're lucky she'll try to represent herself. The lawyer will help you set up the legal framework in which you will both be dealing with your son (congrats!) on a legal basis.

As for how to deal with a wretched bitch who's got your kids, you'll be needing therapy to deal with the anger, hurt and frustration. You need to be on top of sorting any issues out that you have and maintaining yourself as a person, because she's going to make a puppy-killer out of you in court. Best of luck.
posted by motsque at 12:38 PM on September 12, 2011


You might try a divorce mediator, especially one who is also an attorney. Even if your ex won't actually agree to mediation, an attorney-mediator may be able to respond to any hostilities by your ex while also giving you some support on the broader issues you mention above. (And I know it's not actually a divorce, but a divorce attorney-mediator would have experience with child custody issues.)
posted by chickenmagazine at 12:45 PM on September 12, 2011


Absolutely get this made anonymous. As everybody else has said, get a really good lawyer - and one who clearly takes an interest in your case. And it's not out of the question that your case will be a long one...

So, what I would also say - try to get as educated as possible on every possible relevant law. Maybe even by way of your lawyer first - this will allow you to estimate how seriously he or she takes you and how up-to-date he or she is.

I'm saying this because I have seen someone with a similar problem (but with the added complication of having been married to the mother) upclose, and the woman essentially polished the floor with the guy for ten years (and counting). Partly his fault - he persuaded himself to ignore signes of danger for as long as possible, and then proceeded to let go of his troubles in the hands of the first lawyer he managed to find, who turned out to be a complete half-wit, then he got himself the second twerp, then the third, he is now on number 6, all having managed to lose him incredibly clear-cut cases (the woman makes it her life-mission to drag him to court all the time. Kid has the sniffles, she is in court demanding his visitation rights are restricted, cause look, kid is unsafe in his company, look, she has the flu, and here's a doctor;s note to prove it). I cannot describe what havoc the mix of this woman's vengefulness, if that is what it is, his own ostrich-strategy, and a sequence of bad lawyers have managed to wreak on his life, and on that poor kid.

This totally sucks, but I believe your best bet is to find a lawyer with a good reputation for cases like yours, who is in no way beholden to your ex (which can happen in small communities), and then to make it your mission to become really knowledgeable about relevant laws and regulations. And then be prepared to have an ongoing relationship with the legal system, until the situation blows over. There is a good chance that the only way this will blow over is if you prove yourself to be a redoutable opponent - then she might come to the conclusion that co-operation is the better option.

I hope that the above turns out to be utterly paranoid and that she will actually be entirely open to co-operating with you from the outset. So maybe, as well as lawyering up etc, also try to show her the benefits of having you on her side: be attentive, caring to her as the mother of your child, without being a doormat. Good luck.
posted by miorita at 12:46 PM on September 12, 2011


Just to be as clear as possible: begin from a position of protecting yourself from the worst possible stuff, and relax your guard (if appropriate) later on. Do NOT begin from a position of thinking this will be easy (coparenting and hostility don't go hand in hand) and raise your guard later on. Good luck.
posted by davejay at 12:55 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


You might encounter mediators in family court, or be assigned to co-parenting classes as part of your custody arrangement. Maybe you can find a class now and sit in and observe what material/strategies they cover.
posted by Swisstine at 1:06 PM on September 12, 2011


Hope for (and work for) the best outcome. You're going to be a father and there's nothing she can do to prevent you from being the best father you can be. Always do what's best for your child, even (and especially) if she doesn't. Be friendly and congenial when you interact with her, and never ever badmouth her in front of your child. Don't let your own ego get the best of you and don't bring the fight down to her level. If you're not comfortable in a nasty fight like she is then you won't stand a chance. Bite your tongue and take the high road. But don't let that prevent you from standing up for your rights as a parent. Take what you can get and make the most of it.
Also, expect and prepare for the worst. If you have a lawyer that doesn't specialize in combative custody/access battles, then have them recommend one who does. Prepare to be significantly less well-off financially. Between lawyers and support you will be spending money like you never have before. Start downsizing your life now so it won't be a shock.
posted by rocket88 at 1:22 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


My questions are: is this a good idea? What types of resources may help? Where can I start? How can I get the help I need? How can I find a good lawyer?

I have a lot to say on this. I'll try to be brief, but you can always memail me and I am happy to help or expand on these ideas.

It is always a good idea to try and make some sort of arrangement with the other parent. Any arrangement you can craft and adhere to will be far superior to anything the courts and counselors will do for you. Even if it only lasts for a few months, that's not nothing. You will likely cycle through periods of getting along and not getting along.

Remove from your mind that that this matter is ever permanently settled. You will never have a permanent solution. Life changes - you get a new job, she gets a new beau, etc etc etc Navigating these things is a process, and you may have to cover old ground many times. Have patience.

You will do yourself a huge favor to learn what the law in your state says, and what rights and responsibilities you have. A good lawyer will be happy to explain these things to you. They get paid the same whether they are filing affidavits or talking to you. A bad lawyer can't or won't explain. Talk to a bunch of them, - and LISTEN to what they say and how - you'll get a feel for the law and which lawyers you like.

It's unfortunate, but there aren't many resources for men in divisive custody issues. It might pay to get or find a therapist or someone you can talk to. This is a hard thing to go through.

There are things you must do to guarantee and protect your rights, and you need to start with a good lawyer. After that, you must keep your chin up and stay positive.

The one thing you need to know right now - how do you establish your paternity and guarantee access to the child once it is born ? Start putting money away for child support. Do you have things you need for visitation ? Clothes, carseats, food, toys, etc etc.

The best way to get a court to see you as a parent, is for you to act like a parent.

Also, no matter how mad you might be - never ever talk smack about the other parent. You'll do yourself a favor to never even think it. That's your child's mother. She might be the craziest bitch ever known, but you kid only gets one and she's it. Keep your chin up and be the better human.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:01 PM on September 12, 2011 [2 favorites]


Please please get an aggressive lawyer! As a kid in this situation, it's so uncool when the biggest bitch wins just because the other one didn't want to make waves or spring for an attorney (often out of some idea that it would be harder on the kids if you fight over them. No- it's only harder when you involve the kids.)
posted by small_ruminant at 2:54 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hey, I think it is a shame that you are in this situation. But I would like to point out that there is no 'winning' in this situation by getting the most aggressive lawyer or being 'the biggest bitch'. It's all about what is best for this child. You chose to have a child with this woman and now you are broken up. She may not be the easiest parenting partner but you are going to have to respect her choices and wishes even when you don't agree with them, and viewing her as 'cunning, resilient, and hostile' is not going to put you in the best emotional place to help that baby.

I do think it is a great idea for you to have a network of resources in place, both legal and emotional. I get the impression that you may need help to avoid getting caught up in the desire to 'win' as opposed to checking your ego and letting your ex wipe her feet on your self-respect if that's what it takes and that's what's best for your kid.

Reading the above, I sound kind of hostile, for which I apologize. I am probably projecting here, because that is definitely the problem I would be most likely to have myself if I were in your situation, wanting to win.
posted by bq at 3:02 PM on September 12, 2011


Hey, I think it is a shame that you are in this situation. But I would like to point out that there is no 'winning' in this situation by getting the most aggressive lawyer or being 'the biggest bitch'. It's all about what is best for this child. You chose to have a child with this woman and now you are broken up. She may not be the easiest parenting partner but you are going to have to respect her choices and wishes even when you don't agree with them, and viewing her as 'cunning, resilient, and hostile' is not going to put you in the best emotional place to help that baby.

You simply must have the best lawyer possible. Aggressive/not aggressive has nothing to do with it. If your ex is an attorney, she will be able to fight for free and has advantages. You do your child zero service by not having an excellent attorney at your side. If you choose to take an aggressive stance, it will be because a good attorney has given you the information you need to make the right decision for your child.

You will not have to respect her choices when you do not agree with them. Some of those choices may be severely detrimental to the child. You can't sit there and let that happen. You must be strong, because being strong in this situation leads to the type of compromises that form the basis of a working relationship.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:37 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


I don't think this is gender-related. I co-parented with a hostile, sabotaging jerk. A lot of the time it didn't work well or easily. He didn't pay even the meager amount of support ordered. He didn't always provide a reasonable home for our son. He didn't communicate with me about plans, didn't share information, encouraged our son to be disrespectful to me, and was a huge pain in the butt. Boy, am I glad I'm not married to him anymore.

You need a lawyer. Don't look for a shark; look for a good, smart negotiator. If she's a lawyer, she knows every lawyer in town. Signal your intent to have custody, but not your intent to churn up a big case. Courts do tend to award custody to mothers, but they also tend to prefer shared parental rights and responsibilities.

Focus on your child, and remind her of that as needed. Would you please make me a copy of Gonzo's school progress report? I really like to see her progress. Share information, work with her on planning, send her copies of great pictures. Along the way, document everything, because you may have to go back to court for custody adjustments. The better prepared you are, the better it will work.

Kids do great with 2 caring parents. I kept my mouth shut about my jackass ex- (at least 99.9% of the time) until the Boy was a grownup, and even now, I say very little. Teach your child what kind of person to be. Help little Gonzo make Mother's Day and birthday cards for Mom, and help buy or make holiday gifts, because you want your child to be the sort of person who honors his/her Mom. Teach Gonzito to be respectful and loving to Mom, and to you. Learn to say 'Your Mom and I have trouble working things out, but it's Not Your Fault.' Say that a lot, as many kids believe it is their fault that Mom and Dad are apart, fight, etc.

My son and his Dad are pals, and my son is devoted to his Dad. But he's told me a number of times that he knows he can count on me. He doesn't say he can't count on his Dad and I don't want him to. Parenting is a right, but it's much more a responsibility. Keep little Gonzo's best interest front and center; it will help you know what's the right thing to do.
posted by theora55 at 4:01 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


But I would like to point out that there is no 'winning' in this situation by getting the most aggressive lawyer or being 'the biggest bitch'.

I was trying to point out that not being aggressive in the hope that it'll be easier on everyone is NOT in the child's best interest. The child will lose out on a very good parent, who might not, for instance, get to spend time with the child, or, in the case of divorces, have enough money to pay for a reasonable, child-friendly place to live. This, in turn, gets used in court to show how much the passive partner is even LESS able to be a good parent- look! S/he doesn't even have a safe place for the kid!

You are not doing your kid ANY favors by letting the mom steamroll you in this. Spend the money on a good lawyer.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:13 PM on September 12, 2011


How many kids does she already have? She's a lawyer who works full time? It sounds like the woman is already spread too thin. Does she have a live-in nanny or two?

Is there any way you could take a couple or more years off from work so you could be a full time parent? Have you ever taken care of an infant for an extended period of time? Are there parenting classes in your community, and if there are, have you taken them? Do you have nearby siblings or close friends with infants and/or young children who will help you learn how to be a parent? Do you have supportive parents who live nearby?

In other words, in addition to finding the best possible lawyer, you also need to be ready and able to take care of a baby, and that goes way beyond just having the car seat, etc.

As a mother and a grandmother I firmly believe that fathers are just as capable of taking care of babies as mothers are and I wish you luck.
posted by mareli at 5:18 PM on September 12, 2011 [1 favorite]


Mod note: back it up folks and address answers to the OP and what the OP is actually dealing with, thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:56 PM on September 12, 2011


Here's simple coping strategy for deflecting all of your immediate anger about custody issues, and the way your children's welfare is/are administered by courts: Resolve to piss on your ex-wifes's grave, if she dies before you.

My "kids," now 40 and 39 respectively, know that I've made myself this promise, about their mother, and agree it's the best outcome, if she drops dead before I do.

But really, I have no idea, and wouldn't want to, who they are rooting for, in the generational longevity race.
posted by paulsc at 10:45 PM on September 12, 2011


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