Cheating is apparently a virtue.
February 2, 2011 12:55 PM Subscribe
My husband recently told me he wants to be cuckolded. While I'm up for flirting and creative exaggeration to make him happy, actually having sex with someone else is not remotely an option for me. Unfortunately, it seems that anything less is not an option for him.
Married for 7 years, one child. Our sex life has been slow, at best, since we got married. He's always talked about me hooking up with other guys. Our usual pattern is this: every few months or so, he starts to talk about it. I humor him a little by flirting and talking dirty to him about hot guys I see. He continues to push the issue, going so far as to pretend like he doesn't know me in a club so that other guys will hit on me. Eventually I get annoyed and hurt and remind him that it's never REALLY going to happen and he lays off for awhile.
It breaks my heart a little that the idea of me with another guy doesn't bother him in the least. Call me old-fashioned, but I would like to be the object of my husband's affection. The idea of me ACTUALLY hooking up with a stranger just so he can get off is offensive and degrading to me* and it makes me both sad and angry that I even have to deal with this. I am a great wife, a great mom, decent-looking, honest, faithful and smart. And I like sex. Plenty of guys would be perfectly content to be married to me. I'm not a prude and will totally get creative to improve our sex life. But I want our relationship to ultimately be about us, and not me and my boyfriend on one side of the room and him and his tissues on the other.
The catalyst for this AskMe is that a few weeks ago, he discovered the world of cuckolding. When he told me about it, I could hear the excitement in his voice. He'd found a forum and was telling me that he's really into the "mild" side of things and not some of the crazy stuff he'd been reading about (particularly the humiliation, which he says he doesn't like). He's been totally turned on and wanted to have sex every day since.
I, on the other hand, have been on kind of a rollercoaster emotionally. The day after he told me this I was devastated. Then I started to think, like I always do, that maybe I could compromise by going out with my friends, telling him it was a date, and make up a good story to tide him over when I got home. And frankly, I am turned on by the idea of him being turned on - it's been great to have sex every day again. So for a few of days I entertained the idea, and started to get really excited about having an interesting sex life again.
Then today, he told me that it's not enough for me to talk dirty, or even outright make up escapades. He needs to believe they really happened, which means I'd have to really do things I don't want to do. He also sent me some threads from the forum he's been frequenting, and everything about it turns me off.
I realize how unrealistic it is to expect him to just ignore something that's obviously such a big turn-on for him. But I also know how persistent he can be, and compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life.
So my questions: Have any of you been in a relationship with someone who was into this (or something else that really turned you off), and you said no? What happened? Throwaway email at cuckoldAskMe@gmail.com
*I truly am not knocking the entire cuckolding community. I'm all for consenting adults doing whatever the hell makes them happy, and I know my reaction may be on the end of the spectrum. It's just that this is not my thing.
Married for 7 years, one child. Our sex life has been slow, at best, since we got married. He's always talked about me hooking up with other guys. Our usual pattern is this: every few months or so, he starts to talk about it. I humor him a little by flirting and talking dirty to him about hot guys I see. He continues to push the issue, going so far as to pretend like he doesn't know me in a club so that other guys will hit on me. Eventually I get annoyed and hurt and remind him that it's never REALLY going to happen and he lays off for awhile.
It breaks my heart a little that the idea of me with another guy doesn't bother him in the least. Call me old-fashioned, but I would like to be the object of my husband's affection. The idea of me ACTUALLY hooking up with a stranger just so he can get off is offensive and degrading to me* and it makes me both sad and angry that I even have to deal with this. I am a great wife, a great mom, decent-looking, honest, faithful and smart. And I like sex. Plenty of guys would be perfectly content to be married to me. I'm not a prude and will totally get creative to improve our sex life. But I want our relationship to ultimately be about us, and not me and my boyfriend on one side of the room and him and his tissues on the other.
The catalyst for this AskMe is that a few weeks ago, he discovered the world of cuckolding. When he told me about it, I could hear the excitement in his voice. He'd found a forum and was telling me that he's really into the "mild" side of things and not some of the crazy stuff he'd been reading about (particularly the humiliation, which he says he doesn't like). He's been totally turned on and wanted to have sex every day since.
I, on the other hand, have been on kind of a rollercoaster emotionally. The day after he told me this I was devastated. Then I started to think, like I always do, that maybe I could compromise by going out with my friends, telling him it was a date, and make up a good story to tide him over when I got home. And frankly, I am turned on by the idea of him being turned on - it's been great to have sex every day again. So for a few of days I entertained the idea, and started to get really excited about having an interesting sex life again.
Then today, he told me that it's not enough for me to talk dirty, or even outright make up escapades. He needs to believe they really happened, which means I'd have to really do things I don't want to do. He also sent me some threads from the forum he's been frequenting, and everything about it turns me off.
I realize how unrealistic it is to expect him to just ignore something that's obviously such a big turn-on for him. But I also know how persistent he can be, and compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life.
So my questions: Have any of you been in a relationship with someone who was into this (or something else that really turned you off), and you said no? What happened? Throwaway email at cuckoldAskMe@gmail.com
*I truly am not knocking the entire cuckolding community. I'm all for consenting adults doing whatever the hell makes them happy, and I know my reaction may be on the end of the spectrum. It's just that this is not my thing.
I am sorry that you and your husband have such incompatible sexual turn-ons. So tough. And of course you shouldn't do anything that makes you unhappy or uncomfortable or feel degraded, no matter how much the idea excites him.
The thing is, too, that having sex with strangers isn't necessarily simple, even if you were into the idea. Strangers are actual people, with their own needs and desires. And diseases. You aren't being uncooperative or unfeeling by having your own boundaries about this. Not at all. You need to protect yourself and make the boundaries that feel right for you.
It breaks my heart a little that the idea of me with another guy doesn't bother him in the least. Call me old-fashioned, but I would like to be the object of my husband's affection.
Do understand that for people with cuckolding as their kink, that is how they want to experience the objects of their affection. It's not like he wants you to have sex with other guys because you aren't the center of his sexual and romantic universe--it's because you are the center of his sexual and romantic universe that he wants you to have sex with other guys.
Maybe a sex therapist could help you guys strategize a mutually satisfying set of compromises?
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:09 PM on February 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
The thing is, too, that having sex with strangers isn't necessarily simple, even if you were into the idea. Strangers are actual people, with their own needs and desires. And diseases. You aren't being uncooperative or unfeeling by having your own boundaries about this. Not at all. You need to protect yourself and make the boundaries that feel right for you.
It breaks my heart a little that the idea of me with another guy doesn't bother him in the least. Call me old-fashioned, but I would like to be the object of my husband's affection.
Do understand that for people with cuckolding as their kink, that is how they want to experience the objects of their affection. It's not like he wants you to have sex with other guys because you aren't the center of his sexual and romantic universe--it's because you are the center of his sexual and romantic universe that he wants you to have sex with other guys.
Maybe a sex therapist could help you guys strategize a mutually satisfying set of compromises?
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:09 PM on February 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
It's just that this is not my thing.
He knows this, right? I've been in your shoes (more or less) and am relieved to this day that I didn't do something I really, really didn't want to do because I was being pressured into it. Not even for "love" (sorry). But it could be that your husband will completely understand. You need to talk to him.
posted by marimeko at 1:10 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
He knows this, right? I've been in your shoes (more or less) and am relieved to this day that I didn't do something I really, really didn't want to do because I was being pressured into it. Not even for "love" (sorry). But it could be that your husband will completely understand. You need to talk to him.
posted by marimeko at 1:10 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
What if you were to fictionally cuckold him? What he wants is the experience of the cuckold - hearing about his wife's indiscretions (I presume). What if you either made a time in which you could tell him all the sexy stories about man/men you cheated on him with this week, or you could write it up as a diary he could "discover"?
treating it as an exercise in erotica could be a stimulating experience for both of you.
That said, pressuring you to REALLY sleep with other men for HIS sexual benefit? Totally Not On and a deal-breaker for me at least, and would almost certainly be a source of unhappiness for him later (not to mention of course your own unhappiness). See if you can divert it into a healthy fantasy exercise.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 1:10 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
treating it as an exercise in erotica could be a stimulating experience for both of you.
That said, pressuring you to REALLY sleep with other men for HIS sexual benefit? Totally Not On and a deal-breaker for me at least, and would almost certainly be a source of unhappiness for him later (not to mention of course your own unhappiness). See if you can divert it into a healthy fantasy exercise.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 1:10 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
First of all, nobody has to do things that they find degrading or offensive to please their partners. Everyone has their limits of what they are comfortable doing, and it is extremely reasonable that having sex with other people is past your limits. Your husband has to deal with that one way or another.
I am a great wife, a great mom, decent-looking, honest, faithful and smart. And I like sex. Plenty of guys would be perfectly content to be married to me. I'm not a prude and will totally get creative to improve our sex life.
Right there's nothing wrong with you, this is just a weird kink that your husband has. And there's nothing wrong with weird kinks either. This just really turns him on a lot and it really turns you off. It's a fundamental incompatibility. You have to work through it. As others have said, consider counseling.
posted by Sexy, Sexy Anonymity at 1:11 PM on February 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
I am a great wife, a great mom, decent-looking, honest, faithful and smart. And I like sex. Plenty of guys would be perfectly content to be married to me. I'm not a prude and will totally get creative to improve our sex life.
Right there's nothing wrong with you, this is just a weird kink that your husband has. And there's nothing wrong with weird kinks either. This just really turns him on a lot and it really turns you off. It's a fundamental incompatibility. You have to work through it. As others have said, consider counseling.
posted by Sexy, Sexy Anonymity at 1:11 PM on February 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
Then today, he told me that it's not enough for me to talk dirty, or even outright make up escapades. He needs to believe they really happened, which means I'd have to really do things I don't want to do.
I fail at reading. :(
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 1:11 PM on February 2, 2011
I fail at reading. :(
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 1:11 PM on February 2, 2011
Then today, he told me that it's not enough for me to talk dirty, or even outright make up escapades. He needs to believe they really happened, which means I'd have to really do things I don't want to do.
Or does it? Can you just be a really convincing liar?
posted by phrontist at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Or does it? Can you just be a really convincing liar?
posted by phrontist at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Um.
He's insisting that you do something that turns you off.
The thing that turns you off is adultery.
How would you feel if he were insisting that you let him sleep with other women? And then insisted that you listen to his stories about it and like listening to them?
"I realize how unrealistic it is to expect him to just ignore something that's obviously such a big turn-on for him." Really? I had a terrible flaming crush on an unavailable man once. I just had to live with it because I wasn't prepared to betray his partner just because jumping his bones would've been a big turn-on for me (and for him - he was pursuing me). I mean, it's too bad about wanting stuff that would satisfy my cravings at others' expense, but cry me a river, y'know?
I don't know what will happen if you say no. But as you point out, "compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life". So, I guess, you know yourself that he will not likely take no for an answer, but exactly how he'd react, you can only predict from past behaviour. It seems to me that you aren't expecting this to turn out well for you, though, if going out and committing adultery seems like the path of least resistance to you.
Just a thought: is it possible that he knows you'll say no and he will use this to negotiate you down to whatever it is he really wants?
posted by tel3path at 1:18 PM on February 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
He's insisting that you do something that turns you off.
The thing that turns you off is adultery.
How would you feel if he were insisting that you let him sleep with other women? And then insisted that you listen to his stories about it and like listening to them?
"I realize how unrealistic it is to expect him to just ignore something that's obviously such a big turn-on for him." Really? I had a terrible flaming crush on an unavailable man once. I just had to live with it because I wasn't prepared to betray his partner just because jumping his bones would've been a big turn-on for me (and for him - he was pursuing me). I mean, it's too bad about wanting stuff that would satisfy my cravings at others' expense, but cry me a river, y'know?
I don't know what will happen if you say no. But as you point out, "compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life". So, I guess, you know yourself that he will not likely take no for an answer, but exactly how he'd react, you can only predict from past behaviour. It seems to me that you aren't expecting this to turn out well for you, though, if going out and committing adultery seems like the path of least resistance to you.
Just a thought: is it possible that he knows you'll say no and he will use this to negotiate you down to whatever it is he really wants?
posted by tel3path at 1:18 PM on February 2, 2011 [6 favorites]
I have to wonder where there's something d/s going on in your husband's mind. That is, perhaps some of what he gets off on is knowing that you don't want to cuckold him but are doing it anyway, because he's telling you to. He might not enjoy it as much if you were really into banging other guys. Emotional sadism instead of physical. Kink upon kink.
Not that this suggests a solution, but it's something to think about it.
posted by supercres at 1:22 PM on February 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
Not that this suggests a solution, but it's something to think about it.
posted by supercres at 1:22 PM on February 2, 2011 [5 favorites]
What supercres said. I was thinking the exact same thing myself.
posted by tel3path at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2011
posted by tel3path at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2011
He needs to believe they really happened, which means I'd have to really do things I don't want to do.
Ask him what he'd do if you had the same fantasy about him sleeping with men, and that fantasizing wasn't enough -- he had to DO it, and act like he liked it -- and that you wanted this to be a major part of your sex life from now on?
Neither of you want to have sex with men who are not your husband. Neither of you should feel like you have to.
posted by hermitosis at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2011 [68 favorites]
Ask him what he'd do if you had the same fantasy about him sleeping with men, and that fantasizing wasn't enough -- he had to DO it, and act like he liked it -- and that you wanted this to be a major part of your sex life from now on?
Neither of you want to have sex with men who are not your husband. Neither of you should feel like you have to.
posted by hermitosis at 1:23 PM on February 2, 2011 [68 favorites]
Pressuring someone to have sex they don't want to have is skeevy, even if it's pressuring them to have sex with someone ELSE. :(
I think it's great that you've been so GGG so far, and beyond fantastic that you've thought about ways to try to play along within your comfort zones to get both your husband and yourself off. I hope you don't feel like you have to do more -- you don't. Your husband does have to accept that you don't want to sleep with other men, and he should do it with grace and lay off.
posted by rosa at 1:28 PM on February 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
I think it's great that you've been so GGG so far, and beyond fantastic that you've thought about ways to try to play along within your comfort zones to get both your husband and yourself off. I hope you don't feel like you have to do more -- you don't. Your husband does have to accept that you don't want to sleep with other men, and he should do it with grace and lay off.
posted by rosa at 1:28 PM on February 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
The bottom line is that your husband is pressuring you to do something sexually that you really don't want to do. Not cool.
If he's not willing to let this particular dog lie even though he knows how you feel about it, then there's something wrong with him (and therefore your marriage).
posted by elder18 at 1:33 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
If he's not willing to let this particular dog lie even though he knows how you feel about it, then there's something wrong with him (and therefore your marriage).
posted by elder18 at 1:33 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Then today, he told me that it's not enough for me to talk dirty, or even outright make up escapades. He needs to believe they really happened, which means I'd have to really do things I don't want to do.
Yeah, I have to say, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this. There are tons of people with kinks that are unethical or unsafe or flat-out impossible to do "for real." They learn to adapt their fantasies in ways that are ethical, safe, possible, and comfortable for their partners. He can, too.
posted by kagredon at 1:33 PM on February 2, 2011 [20 favorites]
Yeah, I have to say, I don't have a lot of sympathy for this. There are tons of people with kinks that are unethical or unsafe or flat-out impossible to do "for real." They learn to adapt their fantasies in ways that are ethical, safe, possible, and comfortable for their partners. He can, too.
posted by kagredon at 1:33 PM on February 2, 2011 [20 favorites]
I want to agree that you don't have to do anything you find uncomfortable and that counselling is in order here. But here's an idea, the problem is you can't run this idea by your husband or it won't work. Which means its up to you to understand his kink well enough to figure out yourself if it will work. If it doesn't work it could cause disaster in your marriage. So...with those caveats:
Tell him absolutely not. Tell him you don't want to talk about it anymore. Forget it.
A couple of weeks later, tell him you have to work late. If he calls you at work, be sure not to answer. If he asks, tell him you must have been in the bathroom every time he called. Do it again the week after that. Start showiernig before you come home, from time to time, even though you never used to. Come home with wet hair. Don't offer any good explanations and say you just felt like it, if asked. Start being protective of your cell phone. Go into the bathroom when you take calls and run the water. Be sure to grab your cell bill from the mail pile and stuff it in your purse. When you check your email, close the window quickly if your husband comes in the room. Don't tell him about all the awesome sex you're having. If he asks, deny that anything is going on. Go on a trip for business. Have someone call supposedly from an in-town hotel to let you know you left your phone/earring/whatever. Buy a man's scarf, spray some cologn on it in a department store. Drop it behind the couch. You get the idea.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:50 PM on February 2, 2011 [10 favorites]
Tell him absolutely not. Tell him you don't want to talk about it anymore. Forget it.
A couple of weeks later, tell him you have to work late. If he calls you at work, be sure not to answer. If he asks, tell him you must have been in the bathroom every time he called. Do it again the week after that. Start showiernig before you come home, from time to time, even though you never used to. Come home with wet hair. Don't offer any good explanations and say you just felt like it, if asked. Start being protective of your cell phone. Go into the bathroom when you take calls and run the water. Be sure to grab your cell bill from the mail pile and stuff it in your purse. When you check your email, close the window quickly if your husband comes in the room. Don't tell him about all the awesome sex you're having. If he asks, deny that anything is going on. Go on a trip for business. Have someone call supposedly from an in-town hotel to let you know you left your phone/earring/whatever. Buy a man's scarf, spray some cologn on it in a department store. Drop it behind the couch. You get the idea.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:50 PM on February 2, 2011 [10 favorites]
Two thoughts: one, you might be able to create more realistic fantasies for him, but this sounds a lot like he really wants to make this a reality which you've already rejected. Counseling would be worthwhile, if only to find out whether there's some essential element of his fantasy that could be the basis of a compromise that lets him have his cake &c. Possibly your husband is wrong about what he really needs. (At least, I hope he is.)
If you cross the line just to please your husband, the resentment is going to make everything worse. It's good you haven't tried to compromise yourself to please him.
posted by Hylas at 1:57 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you cross the line just to please your husband, the resentment is going to make everything worse. It's good you haven't tried to compromise yourself to please him.
posted by Hylas at 1:57 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
I see this kind of behavior a lot with habitual consumers of internet porn. What happens is that consuming porn on the internet is all about *what I want.* There's so much out there that sexual arousal becomes a one person (me) affair.
The internet porn addict doesn't have to consider what another real person wants, because there are all these images, all these fetish and kink communities, all these people who'll do what they're told on cam, that the whole concept that the sexual relationship is a *relationship* just kind of evaporates. It's all about arousal, and *my* arousal at that.
It's a real transition to go from that flat world, where all I have to care about is what turns me on, to the real world, where there are other people who have wants, desires, and needs of their own to consider.
You all may want to look at some of Patrick Carnes' work. His book about sexual addiction on the internet is particularly compelling.
posted by jasper411 at 2:08 PM on February 2, 2011 [14 favorites]
The internet porn addict doesn't have to consider what another real person wants, because there are all these images, all these fetish and kink communities, all these people who'll do what they're told on cam, that the whole concept that the sexual relationship is a *relationship* just kind of evaporates. It's all about arousal, and *my* arousal at that.
It's a real transition to go from that flat world, where all I have to care about is what turns me on, to the real world, where there are other people who have wants, desires, and needs of their own to consider.
You all may want to look at some of Patrick Carnes' work. His book about sexual addiction on the internet is particularly compelling.
posted by jasper411 at 2:08 PM on February 2, 2011 [14 favorites]
If I only had a penguin..., it sounds like you're suggesting a Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle approach here:
Don't tell him about all the awesome sex you're having. If he asks, deny that anything is going on.
which isn't really useful in real life, much as I love the Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle books.
People whose kink is cuckolding don't get off on the idea that their partners are having affairs they don't know about, so this would just be adding a separate source of conflict to the marriage, not reducing one.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Don't tell him about all the awesome sex you're having. If he asks, deny that anything is going on.
which isn't really useful in real life, much as I love the Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle books.
People whose kink is cuckolding don't get off on the idea that their partners are having affairs they don't know about, so this would just be adding a separate source of conflict to the marriage, not reducing one.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
There is something that my husband would like to do in the bedroom that just totally skeeves me out. I've tried and I just can't do it. It makes me physically ill just thinking about it. It's a totally normal thing that people do everyday that I just can't do.
My husband has asked nicely and has let me know in no uncertain terms that if I were ever up for this certain thing it would just about be the best thing ever. And that's it. No pressure. No guilt. No "but normal people do this all the time".
That's how a respectful spouse acts. He knows I'm not into it and so we do other things that are fun for both of us.
***********
When I first read your question I too was thinking "Huh, this lady just needs to learn to lie more convincingly." But the more I thought about it I realized that one of the most basic foundations of any good relationship is trust and honesty. If you have to lie constantly and convincingly in order for your relationship to function on a basic level then there is something broken in that relationship.
I don't know how upfront you've been letting your husband know that this isn't okay, but I really agree that maybe it's time for a counselor to step in and help you two work through this.
posted by TooFewShoes at 2:24 PM on February 2, 2011 [10 favorites]
My husband has asked nicely and has let me know in no uncertain terms that if I were ever up for this certain thing it would just about be the best thing ever. And that's it. No pressure. No guilt. No "but normal people do this all the time".
That's how a respectful spouse acts. He knows I'm not into it and so we do other things that are fun for both of us.
***********
When I first read your question I too was thinking "Huh, this lady just needs to learn to lie more convincingly." But the more I thought about it I realized that one of the most basic foundations of any good relationship is trust and honesty. If you have to lie constantly and convincingly in order for your relationship to function on a basic level then there is something broken in that relationship.
I don't know how upfront you've been letting your husband know that this isn't okay, but I really agree that maybe it's time for a counselor to step in and help you two work through this.
posted by TooFewShoes at 2:24 PM on February 2, 2011 [10 favorites]
Been there. Almost exactly there, minus the kid. It eventually killed the marriage. I am much happier now.
Here's what happened: after years of him going on about it and me feeling exactly the same as you are (I want my husband to desire ME, dammit, not me+x, but I want to make him happy...) the relationship had all but died, our sex life had disappeared, I had pretty much stopped caring and I agreed that we could try opening up the marriage and see what happened. Pretty much by chance I met another guy. For a month, weekly or so, with my husband's full knowledge and consent, I met up with him and we had sex. I came home, told my husband, we had sex. By the end of the month, I realised that I had really been missing having sex with someone I clicked with and who respected me and what I wanted. And I ended the marriage.
That was a year ago. I'm now living with the guy I cuckolded my ex with. We're crazy about each other. I've never been happier.
posted by corvine at 2:41 PM on February 2, 2011 [11 favorites]
Here's what happened: after years of him going on about it and me feeling exactly the same as you are (I want my husband to desire ME, dammit, not me+x, but I want to make him happy...) the relationship had all but died, our sex life had disappeared, I had pretty much stopped caring and I agreed that we could try opening up the marriage and see what happened. Pretty much by chance I met another guy. For a month, weekly or so, with my husband's full knowledge and consent, I met up with him and we had sex. I came home, told my husband, we had sex. By the end of the month, I realised that I had really been missing having sex with someone I clicked with and who respected me and what I wanted. And I ended the marriage.
That was a year ago. I'm now living with the guy I cuckolded my ex with. We're crazy about each other. I've never been happier.
posted by corvine at 2:41 PM on February 2, 2011 [11 favorites]
You might point out to him that being a grown-up means realizing that you can't always have what you want, and that's ok.
And you might also add - "But as the Rolling Stones pointed out, if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need."
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:49 PM on February 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
And you might also add - "But as the Rolling Stones pointed out, if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need."
posted by MexicanYenta at 2:49 PM on February 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
This question made me very sad. This sentence - compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life - made me very pessimistic. You both need to decide if this basic incompatibility is a dealbreaker for you guys. I hope that you don't allow yourself to be guilted/pressured into doing something that you'll go on to feel bad about. A dear friend of mine was in just this fix some fifteen years ago. She still breaks down crying when she speaks of it. If she speaks of it. Please don't cave to his persistence if your discomfort with this notion is so powerful.
FWIW, if your place, I would consider walking away. I'm not sure if there's a less painful way out of this situation than that.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:02 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
FWIW, if your place, I would consider walking away. I'm not sure if there's a less painful way out of this situation than that.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:02 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
One of my exes had fetishes that weren't actually feasible in reality. They compensated by consuming tons of porn about them and then coming to bed. Discussions about this invariably ended it "but that's the only thing that turns me on, so, it's either I do this or you don't get any." There were no spontaneous sexual encounters-- even if it seemed spontaneous, there had been porn going on right before that that I just hadn't been privy to (I'd walk back into the other room and find tabs and tabs of stuff open).
I hated it, for pretty much the same reason corvine mentions-- it stops being about what you can bring to the bedroom sexually and discover together, and becomes all about how one partner can force everything into the mold of their fetish. It's not even really about the corrupting power of Teh Intarwebz; it's just a lack of respect for the give-and-take of any relationship.
Good luck, OP; I recommend therapy for you, at least, even if he doesn't want to go. If he goes by himself, he'll probably do what my ex did and tell you that the therapist says he's fine and doesn't actually need help (subtext being "but you do").
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 3:45 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
I hated it, for pretty much the same reason corvine mentions-- it stops being about what you can bring to the bedroom sexually and discover together, and becomes all about how one partner can force everything into the mold of their fetish. It's not even really about the corrupting power of Teh Intarwebz; it's just a lack of respect for the give-and-take of any relationship.
Good luck, OP; I recommend therapy for you, at least, even if he doesn't want to go. If he goes by himself, he'll probably do what my ex did and tell you that the therapist says he's fine and doesn't actually need help (subtext being "but you do").
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 3:45 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sidhedevil said: "It's not like he wants you to have sex with other guys because you aren't the center of his sexual and romantic universe--it's because you are the center of his sexual and romantic universe that he wants you to have sex with other guys."
I couldn't disagree more. The only center to this man's universe, sexual/romantic or otherwise, is himself.
Playing this game with him with scenario-talk and such only serves to tease him that you might eventually wear down and cave in to this. Why would you want to be worn-down and caved? And, why would a good man want to do that to the woman he loves?
Draw your lines, dear. And stand on them. And know this: this man loves himself more than you right now. You will have to deal with that someday soon. And I am sorry to hear that. It could change, but he has to do it.
posted by skypieces at 3:53 PM on February 2, 2011 [10 favorites]
I couldn't disagree more. The only center to this man's universe, sexual/romantic or otherwise, is himself.
Playing this game with him with scenario-talk and such only serves to tease him that you might eventually wear down and cave in to this. Why would you want to be worn-down and caved? And, why would a good man want to do that to the woman he loves?
Draw your lines, dear. And stand on them. And know this: this man loves himself more than you right now. You will have to deal with that someday soon. And I am sorry to hear that. It could change, but he has to do it.
posted by skypieces at 3:53 PM on February 2, 2011 [10 favorites]
Considering how strong your husband's kink is, I'm surprised he didn't know it was called "cuckolding" sooner.
Here is my experience with kink and fetish generally: Sometimes folks grow out of stuff after they get to explore it for a while... but if that is their thing, then that's their thing.
You could try a fetish-friendly therapist. Sure. But I'm pretty sure this therapy isn't going to change his desires. You may gain some valuable insight into how this all works for him, but you won't suddenly wake up wanting to screw outside your marriage for your husband's pleasure - know what I mean? Therapy and further education for you may remove the stigma you have that this kink is about degrading you (in fact, it's about his humiliation) but your marriage still has issues because your husband's desires are incompatible with yours. His idea of intimacy is not your idea of intimacy. I'm so sorry.
This is so tough and there is no right answer. As you describe, he will suppress his desires for a while for the sake of the marriage, but they will keep creeping back into his mind. Even if he keeps this private from you, you now know what he is thinking about and it isn't your taste. Eventually you'll feel bad because you are unhappy and he is unhappy.
I do know couples who have made it work where one partner was into kink and one wasn't - but cuckolding was not the fetish flavor in question in those successful situations.
Likewise, plenty of people give up stuff or change when they are in love and part of a committed relationship. That could happen in your marriage, we don't know yet.
Honestly? I think your husband needs to explore how important this is for himself and present you with an honest evaluation of his situation. You deserve to know if your marriage is viable into the future or if you need to start making other plans.
If your husband doesn't have any knowledge about fetish and kink and how all that works... that is a good place for him to start.
posted by jbenben at 5:07 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here is my experience with kink and fetish generally: Sometimes folks grow out of stuff after they get to explore it for a while... but if that is their thing, then that's their thing.
You could try a fetish-friendly therapist. Sure. But I'm pretty sure this therapy isn't going to change his desires. You may gain some valuable insight into how this all works for him, but you won't suddenly wake up wanting to screw outside your marriage for your husband's pleasure - know what I mean? Therapy and further education for you may remove the stigma you have that this kink is about degrading you (in fact, it's about his humiliation) but your marriage still has issues because your husband's desires are incompatible with yours. His idea of intimacy is not your idea of intimacy. I'm so sorry.
This is so tough and there is no right answer. As you describe, he will suppress his desires for a while for the sake of the marriage, but they will keep creeping back into his mind. Even if he keeps this private from you, you now know what he is thinking about and it isn't your taste. Eventually you'll feel bad because you are unhappy and he is unhappy.
I do know couples who have made it work where one partner was into kink and one wasn't - but cuckolding was not the fetish flavor in question in those successful situations.
Likewise, plenty of people give up stuff or change when they are in love and part of a committed relationship. That could happen in your marriage, we don't know yet.
Honestly? I think your husband needs to explore how important this is for himself and present you with an honest evaluation of his situation. You deserve to know if your marriage is viable into the future or if you need to start making other plans.
If your husband doesn't have any knowledge about fetish and kink and how all that works... that is a good place for him to start.
posted by jbenben at 5:07 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
"You should draw your line in the sand and let him know that if you're going to be sleeping with another man, it's because he pushed you out of the relationship entirely."
Stay away from statements like this, even though I appreciate the spirit behind this suggestion and others above in the same realm. From what I know of cuckolding, that statement is pretty much exactly the point.
The OP wants open and adult conversations about the state of her marriage and where it is heading, not provide her husband with powerful wanking material.
posted by jbenben at 5:13 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Stay away from statements like this, even though I appreciate the spirit behind this suggestion and others above in the same realm. From what I know of cuckolding, that statement is pretty much exactly the point.
The OP wants open and adult conversations about the state of her marriage and where it is heading, not provide her husband with powerful wanking material.
posted by jbenben at 5:13 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ask him what he'd do if you had the same fantasy about him sleeping with men, and that fantasizing wasn't enough -- he had to DO it, and act like he liked it -- and that you wanted this to be a major part of your sex life from now on?
Bad idea.
What if he says "Gee, sweetie, if it were that important to you I'd totally do it!"? It doesn't matter what he is willing to do (or claims to be willing to do), it matters what our OP is willing to do.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 5:22 PM on February 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
Bad idea.
What if he says "Gee, sweetie, if it were that important to you I'd totally do it!"? It doesn't matter what he is willing to do (or claims to be willing to do), it matters what our OP is willing to do.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 5:22 PM on February 2, 2011 [4 favorites]
I couldn't disagree more. The only center to this man's universe, sexual/romantic or otherwise, is himself.
I totally agree that this individual seems to be approaching this in a completely selfish and thoughtless way.
But I am not going to make a blanket statement that everyone who has a cuckolding kink is selfish, or that they do not love their partner, or that their partner is not at the center of their erotic universe, and neither can you. "I love you and desire you and therefore I want to sleep with you" is just a far more common interest than "I love you and desire you and therefore I want to hear all about you sleeping with other people."
The thing is, it only works if it works for both parties. I agree wholeheartedly that this man seems not to be paying attention to his partner's boundaries about this, which is selfish and disrespectful and inappropriate. I just don't think it's fair to say that cuckolding as a kink is necessarily selfish, which was the point I was trying to make.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:44 PM on February 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
I totally agree that this individual seems to be approaching this in a completely selfish and thoughtless way.
But I am not going to make a blanket statement that everyone who has a cuckolding kink is selfish, or that they do not love their partner, or that their partner is not at the center of their erotic universe, and neither can you. "I love you and desire you and therefore I want to sleep with you" is just a far more common interest than "I love you and desire you and therefore I want to hear all about you sleeping with other people."
The thing is, it only works if it works for both parties. I agree wholeheartedly that this man seems not to be paying attention to his partner's boundaries about this, which is selfish and disrespectful and inappropriate. I just don't think it's fair to say that cuckolding as a kink is necessarily selfish, which was the point I was trying to make.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:44 PM on February 2, 2011 [7 favorites]
Therapy, and lots of it.
Good luck. Although, in my opinion, this sounds like a bit of a deal breaker.
posted by freakazoid at 5:52 PM on February 2, 2011
Good luck. Although, in my opinion, this sounds like a bit of a deal breaker.
posted by freakazoid at 5:52 PM on February 2, 2011
Let me introduce you to my friend. You're going to be her in two years if you give in to your husband on this.
My friend's husband is a lot like yours. He reaaaaaaaally wanted to be cuckolded. He nagged and whined and begged and harassed her and finally said, "Either you start putting out for other men or I want a divorce." She caved in, and periodically would go on Craigslist and find a dude. She is required to take pictures of everything they do so he has proof. I think he'd be up for a "likes to watch" experience, but I don't know if they ever found a random dude willing to do that.
Here's the kinds of fun she ran into:
(a) attempting to find multiple guys on Craigslist that she could stand to let put her dick in her, that are willing to take souvenir photography, and won't do worse to her. Keep in mind that that's just looking for barely acceptable men, on Craigslist. When you don't want to be doing so, and may not be enjoying it all that much. I am surprised that she has been okay so far, honestly.
(b) Like corvine, my friend found a guy who gave her more good/loving sex that she was getting at home. Unfortunately, that guy (who turned out to be a skeeze anyway, big surprise) was single and got himself a single girlfriend, and my friend got a "Keep your hands off MAH MAN, you BITCH" phone call.
Let me tell you that giving in to your husband's whims? It's only going to get worse. My friend got bugged alllll the time to go on Craigslist and find more men. If he'd had his way, she would have been pimping herself out about every other day. He harassed and bugged her just as much as he did before she caved, as far as I can tell. God forbid she not be excited about the idea.
It got worse. The argument about "how would he like it if you wanted him to screw other girls?" That's right, that was the NEXT thing he wanted to do. Now, while she wasn't 100% against having an open relationship (though she didn't want it really at all and has said multiple times that it's a mental mindfuck for her), she was about 99% against him stepping out. But he nagged and whined and bitched and blah blah and she caved in and said "only if it's a fuckbuddy who is NOT in our social circle and you don't do it regularly."
He IMMEDIATELY picked a girl in their social circle, and is demanding that he see her frequently (the only luck for my friend in this is that the girl lives 1.5 hours away), and basically, he wants the other girl as an official secondary girlfriend. Which my friend adamantly doesn't want. He also wants the missus and the other girl to be BFF's. Husband is also doing a lot of polyamory fail and treating my friend like crap while he lavishes attention on the new girl and no longer wants to boink the wife. She is freaking miserable.
See a pattern here?
(a) friend is doing things she hates doing to please/satisfy this guy, putting her health/maybe life at risk to do it
(b) guy is never satisfied and his "needs" just keep on escalating
(c) he absolutely doesn't give a shit about her feelings. If he REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTS IT and my friend doesn't, fuck her, he'll get what he wants because the world revolves around him and his dick. He doesn't care that she is super freaking bothered by what he asks her to do, and just wants her to get the hell over it already. Anything she asks him to do that would make her feel better about the situation that he doesn't agree with? He just does it.
I suspect that my friend's not wanting to do it/not wanting him to do another woman is part of the turn on for him too.
Yeah, I think she should leave (maybe he'll finally make her feel miserable enough that she finally leaves), and I think you should leave. Why? Because the marriage is already over, because he doesn't give a shit about your feelings. You can end it now, or you can cave in to his demands and see how well that works for you, because that's working just awesome for my friend.
Oh, and for those who will argue "but there's a kid:" Do you want the kid to someday find Daddy's stash of photos/video of Mommy fucking another guy? Yeah, it's awful to have to leave, but in the end, I think you will have to anyway because he doesn't care enough about you to consider your feelings. And if you fuck other guys to please him when you don't want to, you'll just feel worse on your way out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:05 PM on February 2, 2011 [9 favorites]
My friend's husband is a lot like yours. He reaaaaaaaally wanted to be cuckolded. He nagged and whined and begged and harassed her and finally said, "Either you start putting out for other men or I want a divorce." She caved in, and periodically would go on Craigslist and find a dude. She is required to take pictures of everything they do so he has proof. I think he'd be up for a "likes to watch" experience, but I don't know if they ever found a random dude willing to do that.
Here's the kinds of fun she ran into:
(a) attempting to find multiple guys on Craigslist that she could stand to let put her dick in her, that are willing to take souvenir photography, and won't do worse to her. Keep in mind that that's just looking for barely acceptable men, on Craigslist. When you don't want to be doing so, and may not be enjoying it all that much. I am surprised that she has been okay so far, honestly.
(b) Like corvine, my friend found a guy who gave her more good/loving sex that she was getting at home. Unfortunately, that guy (who turned out to be a skeeze anyway, big surprise) was single and got himself a single girlfriend, and my friend got a "Keep your hands off MAH MAN, you BITCH" phone call.
Let me tell you that giving in to your husband's whims? It's only going to get worse. My friend got bugged alllll the time to go on Craigslist and find more men. If he'd had his way, she would have been pimping herself out about every other day. He harassed and bugged her just as much as he did before she caved, as far as I can tell. God forbid she not be excited about the idea.
It got worse. The argument about "how would he like it if you wanted him to screw other girls?" That's right, that was the NEXT thing he wanted to do. Now, while she wasn't 100% against having an open relationship (though she didn't want it really at all and has said multiple times that it's a mental mindfuck for her), she was about 99% against him stepping out. But he nagged and whined and bitched and blah blah and she caved in and said "only if it's a fuckbuddy who is NOT in our social circle and you don't do it regularly."
He IMMEDIATELY picked a girl in their social circle, and is demanding that he see her frequently (the only luck for my friend in this is that the girl lives 1.5 hours away), and basically, he wants the other girl as an official secondary girlfriend. Which my friend adamantly doesn't want. He also wants the missus and the other girl to be BFF's. Husband is also doing a lot of polyamory fail and treating my friend like crap while he lavishes attention on the new girl and no longer wants to boink the wife. She is freaking miserable.
See a pattern here?
(a) friend is doing things she hates doing to please/satisfy this guy, putting her health/maybe life at risk to do it
(b) guy is never satisfied and his "needs" just keep on escalating
(c) he absolutely doesn't give a shit about her feelings. If he REALLY REALLY REALLY WANTS IT and my friend doesn't, fuck her, he'll get what he wants because the world revolves around him and his dick. He doesn't care that she is super freaking bothered by what he asks her to do, and just wants her to get the hell over it already. Anything she asks him to do that would make her feel better about the situation that he doesn't agree with? He just does it.
I suspect that my friend's not wanting to do it/not wanting him to do another woman is part of the turn on for him too.
Yeah, I think she should leave (maybe he'll finally make her feel miserable enough that she finally leaves), and I think you should leave. Why? Because the marriage is already over, because he doesn't give a shit about your feelings. You can end it now, or you can cave in to his demands and see how well that works for you, because that's working just awesome for my friend.
Oh, and for those who will argue "but there's a kid:" Do you want the kid to someday find Daddy's stash of photos/video of Mommy fucking another guy? Yeah, it's awful to have to leave, but in the end, I think you will have to anyway because he doesn't care enough about you to consider your feelings. And if you fuck other guys to please him when you don't want to, you'll just feel worse on your way out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:05 PM on February 2, 2011 [9 favorites]
On top of jenfullmoon's comment about the stash of photos/videos... assuming it ended poorly and divorce became the solution, how would that affect a custody battle?
posted by Clytie at 7:50 PM on February 2, 2011
posted by Clytie at 7:50 PM on February 2, 2011
The locus of the question is wrong. The problem is not that he wants to be cuckolded and you don't want to cuckold him. The problem is...
compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life
If you solve the cuckolding issue, the REAL problem will still be there.
Being in a marriage and "compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life" are incompatible. So I agree with the many voices here who are advocating couples therapy, but the main focus of the therapy shouldn't be pro/con cuckolding.
And if cuckolding is something you are unwilling to do, you need to be completely upfront about that. It sounds like you've been nibbling around the edges of the idea (flirting, etc) but never diving into the deep end. (That's understandable. I don't mean to imply you've been a bad person.) This isn't helping. Your husband wants you to do this so much that he's taking anything that's not a NO-WAY-EVER as a maybe.
In your shoes, I would stop cold turkey. No little lies to keep him happy. No innocent flirting with other guys. That's the only way he'll ge the message. Maybe one day you'll be able to help him out by rollplaying or whatever, but not now. He needs to get a clear message that if he wants to be with you, this ain't happening -- not now and not in five years.
posted by grumblebee at 8:20 PM on February 2, 2011 [15 favorites]
compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life
If you solve the cuckolding issue, the REAL problem will still be there.
Being in a marriage and "compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life" are incompatible. So I agree with the many voices here who are advocating couples therapy, but the main focus of the therapy shouldn't be pro/con cuckolding.
And if cuckolding is something you are unwilling to do, you need to be completely upfront about that. It sounds like you've been nibbling around the edges of the idea (flirting, etc) but never diving into the deep end. (That's understandable. I don't mean to imply you've been a bad person.) This isn't helping. Your husband wants you to do this so much that he's taking anything that's not a NO-WAY-EVER as a maybe.
In your shoes, I would stop cold turkey. No little lies to keep him happy. No innocent flirting with other guys. That's the only way he'll ge the message. Maybe one day you'll be able to help him out by rollplaying or whatever, but not now. He needs to get a clear message that if he wants to be with you, this ain't happening -- not now and not in five years.
posted by grumblebee at 8:20 PM on February 2, 2011 [15 favorites]
Whatever you decide to do (and i hope it includes several visits to a cousellor), don't let go of the fact that it is your body, as your individual 'property' that would have sex with someone else, and no matter how much you want to please your husband, having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with will ultimately feel like a violation.
In other words: only do it if your feelings evolve and you actually want to do it. If you and your husband can't come to an agreement about this without you losing autonomy over your body, then you might need to accept it as an incompatible element of your marriage.
posted by Kololo at 8:27 PM on February 2, 2011
In other words: only do it if your feelings evolve and you actually want to do it. If you and your husband can't come to an agreement about this without you losing autonomy over your body, then you might need to accept it as an incompatible element of your marriage.
posted by Kololo at 8:27 PM on February 2, 2011
Don't do it. My husband said the same thing and I listened to him to try and please. It's a crock of shit. He is now my ex-husband.
posted by wv kay in ga at 8:53 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by wv kay in ga at 8:53 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
This question came up in Savage Love a while ago. Dan Savage has heard it all, and even with his general feeling that partners should indulge each other, he's entirely clear on this issue: cuckolding is a fetish too far. If the wife isn't into it, husband just needs to drop it, completely, forever.
OP, you have all of my sympathy. I have no experience to share with you, just moral support. Divorce is not the end of the world, even with a child. It happens all the time and people make fresh starts. I think it's better than what your husband is trying to push you towards.
Here's the thing... he's not even trying to find a workable solution. Frankly I think it's generous of you to even play along with pretending the cuckold scenarios, since the pretending is so repulsive to you. But he dismisses you! Doesn't even appreciate that you tried to meet him halfway instead of, oh, say, kicking him out / calling his mom / telling his boss. He's being a selfish, deluded piece of shit, in other words, and I think you may be well rid of him.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:02 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
OP, you have all of my sympathy. I have no experience to share with you, just moral support. Divorce is not the end of the world, even with a child. It happens all the time and people make fresh starts. I think it's better than what your husband is trying to push you towards.
Here's the thing... he's not even trying to find a workable solution. Frankly I think it's generous of you to even play along with pretending the cuckold scenarios, since the pretending is so repulsive to you. But he dismisses you! Doesn't even appreciate that you tried to meet him halfway instead of, oh, say, kicking him out / calling his mom / telling his boss. He's being a selfish, deluded piece of shit, in other words, and I think you may be well rid of him.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:02 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Good god, jenfullmoon. What a horrible story; I hope your friend drops that guy like a hot coal. He's pimping her out.
OP, I don't know much about this cuckolding kink, but honestly I'd say anyone who wants you to have sex with other men when you don't want to is basically treating you like a prostitute. Instead of a cut of the cash he's getting a sexual kick.
DO NOT do anything with your body that you are not comfortable with! You will be opening up a whole can of worms with regard to self-esteem, anxiety, victimization, and so on. Tell your husband to knock it off because trying to control who you sleep with in this way is a total dealbreaker.
Call me old-fashioned, too. Geez.
posted by torticat at 9:14 PM on February 2, 2011
OP, I don't know much about this cuckolding kink, but honestly I'd say anyone who wants you to have sex with other men when you don't want to is basically treating you like a prostitute. Instead of a cut of the cash he's getting a sexual kick.
DO NOT do anything with your body that you are not comfortable with! You will be opening up a whole can of worms with regard to self-esteem, anxiety, victimization, and so on. Tell your husband to knock it off because trying to control who you sleep with in this way is a total dealbreaker.
Call me old-fashioned, too. Geez.
posted by torticat at 9:14 PM on February 2, 2011
Ah, and that savage love column that fingersandtoes linked is excellent. Show that to your husband.
(Although, for me personally, just the fact that my husband would disrespect my own wishes in this way would pretty much kill the relationship already.)
posted by torticat at 9:26 PM on February 2, 2011
(Although, for me personally, just the fact that my husband would disrespect my own wishes in this way would pretty much kill the relationship already.)
posted by torticat at 9:26 PM on February 2, 2011
Never, never, never give up on your integrity and your essence.
trying to please someone at your own expense is never a good idea.
At the end, you will wither.
This is not about cuckolding. This is about one of the core aspects of your relationship.
Respect for each other's essential traits. This is who you are. If he does not
respect that, and wants you to change that just for him to get off, then it really
doesn't say much about him, does it?
posted by theKik at 9:29 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
trying to please someone at your own expense is never a good idea.
At the end, you will wither.
This is not about cuckolding. This is about one of the core aspects of your relationship.
Respect for each other's essential traits. This is who you are. If he does not
respect that, and wants you to change that just for him to get off, then it really
doesn't say much about him, does it?
posted by theKik at 9:29 PM on February 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
The locus of the question is wrong. The problem is not that he wants to be cuckolded and you don't want to cuckold him. The problem is...
compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life
Agreed. This really isn't about sex.
posted by desuetude at 11:16 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
compromise is rarely an option for him about anything in his life
Agreed. This really isn't about sex.
posted by desuetude at 11:16 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Do not do anything that will compromise your position as the parent fitter for full custody.
posted by zarah at 11:20 PM on February 2, 2011 [18 favorites]
posted by zarah at 11:20 PM on February 2, 2011 [18 favorites]
I keep coming back to this thread, just because I can relate so much and I nearly posted this question so many times myself. jenfullmoon's friend's awful story is exactly why I resisted for so long - I knew he would never be satisfied and it would keep escalating.
Please feel free to memail me if you want to talk more, OP.
posted by corvine at 12:41 AM on February 3, 2011
Please feel free to memail me if you want to talk more, OP.
posted by corvine at 12:41 AM on February 3, 2011
Ummm, no. You don't want to do it. This isn't "I don't like Italian food but he likes it so I should too." This is sex. This is your body. And your body says no. So that has to be enough for him. I mean, tough luck for him. We don't always get what we want. If he wants to be with you he has to respect you enough to understand that you don't want to do it and that he shouldn't force you into doing something you don't want to do.
posted by mleigh at 1:44 AM on February 3, 2011
posted by mleigh at 1:44 AM on February 3, 2011
Listen to jenfullmoon - that's about how I saw this playing out in my head. If he's that persistent and resistant to compromise, I see this escalating once he gets a little bit of what he wants.
I agree with the comments that this isn't about sex as much as it is about your relationship dynamic, and I don't think it's nearly as much about you as it is about him. If I could find a hundred ways to say that same sentence again I would, but I don't know how to emphasize it enough.
As far as if it is unrealistic to expect him to drop something that turns him on so much -- We all have things that we want that we are just not going to get - his just happens to be something sexual that he feels like he can make happen if he badgers and pushes you enough. What he wants involves making you do something that you really really don't want to do, and it is fundamentally wrong to expect that he should be allowed to do that because it turns him on.
posted by mrs. taters at 6:48 AM on February 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I agree with the comments that this isn't about sex as much as it is about your relationship dynamic, and I don't think it's nearly as much about you as it is about him. If I could find a hundred ways to say that same sentence again I would, but I don't know how to emphasize it enough.
As far as if it is unrealistic to expect him to drop something that turns him on so much -- We all have things that we want that we are just not going to get - his just happens to be something sexual that he feels like he can make happen if he badgers and pushes you enough. What he wants involves making you do something that you really really don't want to do, and it is fundamentally wrong to expect that he should be allowed to do that because it turns him on.
posted by mrs. taters at 6:48 AM on February 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
You don't want this, so it can't happen. That's not open for discussion. The respectful, loving husband you want to have must not demand this. There's probably a little room for more understanding of his desires on your part, but it certainly won't change anything about the situation.
You need to sit down and talk about this topic with your husband, sometime when he's not turned on and can consider what you have to say. I can see three possible outcomes from this conversation: you work something out that involves you not having sex with other men and keeps his sex life alive, you work something out that involves you not having sex with other men and doesn't keep his sex life alive, or you split up.
Have enough respect for him to have this conversation promptly and candidly. There's no reason to try to deceive your partner, or partially 'play along', about a topic that's this big. If he leaves you over it, your relationship was already over anyway.
posted by Protocols of the Elders of Sockpuppetry at 9:04 AM on February 3, 2011
You need to sit down and talk about this topic with your husband, sometime when he's not turned on and can consider what you have to say. I can see three possible outcomes from this conversation: you work something out that involves you not having sex with other men and keeps his sex life alive, you work something out that involves you not having sex with other men and doesn't keep his sex life alive, or you split up.
Have enough respect for him to have this conversation promptly and candidly. There's no reason to try to deceive your partner, or partially 'play along', about a topic that's this big. If he leaves you over it, your relationship was already over anyway.
posted by Protocols of the Elders of Sockpuppetry at 9:04 AM on February 3, 2011
Very simply, here are the guidelines for indulging the sexual fantasies of a partner:
1. If you're into the idea, great!
2. If you're at least okay with it and not upset by it, fine. Make the lucky person happy now and then!
3. If you're not sure how you feel about it, say so, and discuss it. Don't proceed unless you're pretty sure you're okay with it.
4. If you're not okay with it, don't do it. But do make sure you discuss why so your partner gets it.
And here are the guidelines for suggesting the indulgence a sexual fantasy to your partner:
1. If they're not at least okay with it, don't push it.
The whole point of sex-for-pleasure is that it should be mutual pleasure. Anyone who has a particular kink or fantasy needs to remember that. One's personal pleasure should never be had at the expense of that of one's partner. No one has the right to demand that their partner do something they do not want to do. Your husband needs to understand this. If he does not, I'm afraid you have a problem.
posted by Decani at 2:21 AM on February 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
1. If you're into the idea, great!
2. If you're at least okay with it and not upset by it, fine. Make the lucky person happy now and then!
3. If you're not sure how you feel about it, say so, and discuss it. Don't proceed unless you're pretty sure you're okay with it.
4. If you're not okay with it, don't do it. But do make sure you discuss why so your partner gets it.
And here are the guidelines for suggesting the indulgence a sexual fantasy to your partner:
1. If they're not at least okay with it, don't push it.
The whole point of sex-for-pleasure is that it should be mutual pleasure. Anyone who has a particular kink or fantasy needs to remember that. One's personal pleasure should never be had at the expense of that of one's partner. No one has the right to demand that their partner do something they do not want to do. Your husband needs to understand this. If he does not, I'm afraid you have a problem.
posted by Decani at 2:21 AM on February 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Billiken at 1:07 PM on February 2, 2011 [2 favorites]