My colleague swallowed his teeth during a snowball fight. Now what?

December 2, 2010 10:28 PM

Snowball fight ethical dilemma - who is responsible to fix something that breaks

Although this is my first post, I’m pretty sure this has not been asked before.

I’m in a strange ethical dilemma and need your help to figure out what the best course of action is.

Yesterday was a long and tough day at work. In the evening to blow off some steam, a couple of my colleagues at the university where I teach (people I also consider friends), some of our students and I went outside for a massive snowball fight. Jocularity ensued. My 54-year-old colleague, Jim, who has just spent €3000 on having his front teeth fixed, received a snowball smack in the face and swallowed these very expensive teeth. Jocularity ended. I’m not sure if Jim has adequate insurance. I am also about 25% sure that the snowball sallied forth from my hand, although one of my other colleagues is adamant that he is responsible. So here is my question:

Should I:

A. Diplomatically say to Jim, ‘tough luck buddy, it was an accident, pay for your own dentistry - I didn’t even know that this was a possible outcome of our snowball fight. It’s your responsibility.’

B. Together with the other colleague sincerely offer to pay for the dentist work.

C. Once this is all settled and fixed treat Jim to a spectacular dinner and drinks session.

I’m tending towards C, but wanted to check with you that I’m not being dishonourable by rejecting B.

posted by MighstAllCruckingFighty to Human Relations (26 answers total)

Just to clarify, was Jim throwing snowballs?
posted by wayland at 10:31 PM on December 2, 2010

Best answer: if jim was part of the fight, any harm or damage to him in fair fighting is really up to him. take him out for drinks and a (smoothie) dinner.
posted by nadawi at 10:33 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

How about D. All three of you amicably chip in on whatever work is needed.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:34 PM on December 2, 2010 [6 favorites]

Response by poster: Yes, Jim was throwing too.
posted by MighstAllCruckingFighty at 10:35 PM on December 2, 2010

Best answer: C. If you have loads of money and really want to, you can offer B. But I probably wouldn't.

I have heard that swallowed false teeth, crowns, etc, can be, erm, recovered after . . . digestion. I know, ew, but, like, that's an option you might want to alert Jim about.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:36 PM on December 2, 2010

A+C
posted by pracowity at 10:38 PM on December 2, 2010

Best answer: Yeah if he was a full fledged participant in the snowball fight he accepted the risk.

IANYL this is not legal advice, but this would make a fun essay question on a torts exam.
posted by whoaali at 10:51 PM on December 2, 2010

Best answer: What was the last time a boxer sued someone for being hit? He knew the risks of playing and decided to join in. Tough luck. If I was hit, I would consider it my fault.
posted by Felex at 10:54 PM on December 2, 2010 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: OK - thanks everyone! You've all pretty much confirmed what I was thinking and how I would feel if I were the one who had had my teeth knocked out. I just wanted to double check I wasn't rationalising my way out of an uncomfortable bill.

PhoBWanKenobi - nice tip! Yuck! :o)
posted by MighstAllCruckingFighty at 11:06 PM on December 2, 2010

If he has actually swallowed them and they have not yet emerged, have a long party (think weding in Dagestan) in which you all participate in the recovery of the teeth. Just be careful not to kill him or you'll really feel guilty.
posted by pracowity at 11:07 PM on December 2, 2010

Response by poster: Pracowity - you mean we should have some sort of lucky dip at the party? Nice. :o)
posted by MighstAllCruckingFighty at 11:27 PM on December 2, 2010

I'm also going to chip in with "He participated, the risk was his, he got unlucky" - provided you didn't do anything nasty like load a snowball with ice. Now, if he'd just been an innocent, non-participating passer-by and you'd knocked his teeth out, the responsibility would definitely have been yours.

I do like the idea of taking him put for a meal when he's all fixed up, though. That's just a nice gesture.
posted by Decani at 2:02 AM on December 3, 2010 [1 favorite]

OUT. Not "put". Jeez.
posted by Decani at 2:03 AM on December 3, 2010

I agree that unless you or your other colleague were throwing ice balls, you're in the clear. On the other hand, if you and/or your other colleague can more easily afford to pay some or all of the costs, it would be a nice gesture.
posted by missmagenta at 5:37 AM on December 3, 2010

The thrower is always responsible.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:09 AM on December 3, 2010

I would have said the thrower was responsible, although I see everyone's point about how it was a calculated risk for Jim. If I thought maybe I'd been the thrower, I would offer to chip in some money, and hopefully the thrower would do the same. Although I don't think I'd offer to pay for the procedure outright.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:32 AM on December 3, 2010

What kind of "fix" did Jim's teeth get? A cap? Crown? I have one false tooth. I think it's been replaced twice. In 25 years. If it was dislodged in a snowball fight, it wouldn't even occur to me that it was someone else's responsibility. Unless it was dislodged shortly after the repair was done. Then I think it would be the dentist's responsibility.

I'm afraid I may be misunderstanding the nature of Jim's dental work.

As far as actually breaking out the check book... I can understand the guilt that you seem to feel, but I really don't think you're responsible.
posted by stuart_s at 8:01 AM on December 3, 2010 [2 favorites]

If someone is throwing snowballs, I'd consider it de facto consent to have snowballs thrown back at them. Jim's the one who knew he had a medical condition that made snowball throwing unwise.

And I'm saying this as someone who's about to be in the same position as Jim (spending US$3500 to get a front tooth fixed.) I will not be engaging in snowball fights this winter.
posted by endless_forms at 8:31 AM on December 3, 2010

Data point: I have several crowns. One of them used to come out frequently. My dentist always cemented it back in for nothing, until it happened enough times that he finally made me a new, better* one. For free. Because the first one wasn't good enough.

I had another dentist who told me outright, after some complicated work: If this [whatever it was] isn't working right, come back and I'll fix it for free. I stand by my work.

*avoiding dentistry technicalities here
posted by the_blizz at 8:33 AM on December 3, 2010

I'll add that, as someone deep in the pits of getting a replacement tooth, I'm also unclear as to how L3000 of teeth just got knocked out. If they're implants and the implants themselves (the screws that go into the root socket) got loosened, that's tragic (but he REALLY shouldn't have been throwing snowballs). If he lost the false crowns on new implants but the implants are fine, it's not so bad. If he lost the permanent crowns on implants, or lost a bridge, then his dental work was probably faulty in the first place.

I'm wondering whether he actually lost temps (partial dentures, temp crowns, lingual splint) and you've misunderstood the gravity of the situation.
posted by endless_forms at 8:37 AM on December 3, 2010

OK, here's what you need to do: a betting pool. Based on PhoBWanKenobi's suggestion, start a betting pool (quickly!) based on the time of, um, recovery of the teeth. It's a great story, try to spread it fast. Split the proceeds with Jim. (And, of course, there's nothing to say the winner can't donate his portion to him too. Just sayin'.)
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:46 AM on December 3, 2010

IANYL this is not legal advice, but this would make a fun essay question on a torts exam.

A few years ago we were playing volleyball at my Uncle Dave's lake place. Someone took a ball in the face and their glasses got mangled. One of the cousins intoned sternly, "Dave, you've got a tort on your property!"

No suit resulted, of course, because #1 it was just a pair of glasses, and #2 everyone knew we were playing volleyball and that fast-moving fists and volleyballs were part of the risks.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:07 AM on December 3, 2010

I was the "victim" in a similar snow-related incident years ago. It was at someone's home, so their homeowner's insurance paid for it, but had it been on public property I would have never expected recompense. The "perpetrator"s assistance (driving me to doctor, buying breakfast, general followup and concern) was greatly appreciated, though.

So, C is the right answer.
posted by desjardins at 9:10 AM on December 3, 2010

I also agree with A+C. I've had my glasses broken in a basketball game and considered it just the risk of playing basketball.

Meanwhile, the image of a bunch of tweedy British professors arguing in the snow about who threw the dentistry-destroying missile in question is my Most Adorable Thing of the Week!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:46 AM on December 3, 2010

The thrower is always responsible.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:09 AM on December 3 [+] [!]

Ironmouth, I'm curious: why do say the thrower is always responsible? In this case, wouldn't the responsibility fall at least equally on the thrower and the throwee, who was a willing participant?
posted by Majorita at 2:59 PM on December 3, 2010

Ten years ago we had a beach party. I was drunk. My friends decided to throw me in the river with my shoes tied together. (they were drunk, too.) I bucked and kicked as they tried to carry me, and was dropped by the guy carrying my upper body. The guy holding my feet got my entire torso on his ankle. He paid for his own hospital bills. We're still good friends.

(moral of the story: DOn't fuck with me when I'm drunk!)
posted by notsnot at 3:33 PM on December 3, 2010