Hell is waking up to two traveling Australians I've never met sleeping in my living room for six days.
October 27, 2010 7:05 AM
How can a quiet and reserved person make living with very social individuals work? What's the best way to reconcile each side's concerns about the living situation?
This is kind of a long one, please bear with me.
About a month and a half ago, I moved across California to San Francisco with two people I knew to join up with one other person and share a four bedroom house in the city. It's a great house in a great neighborhood, safe and convenient. Early on, everything seemed to be working out great. Of the people I'm living with, one I get along with well (Person A), one I didn't care much for but tolerated (Person B), and the other was someone new who is fine (Person C). The reason I decided to live with others rather than on my own was, perhaps misguided, that if I didn't do it now, I wouldn't have moved at all because I would always find an excuse not to.
The incident that triggered concerns on both sides happened about three weeks when Person B invited two traveling 'friends', who he met briefly before months ago, to stay at the house without informing me of this. The notice he gave was "we have guests for a few days, say hello" as they walked in the door. The stay was supposed to be a few days but actually turned into six nights. What is more bothersome is that he had known they were coming for more than a month, but failed to and I believe on purpose, to tell me that they were coming. He had informed the others but didn't actually disclose the length of stay.
I had a big problem with this because I didn't feel that it's acceptable at all to take it upon yourself to invite long-term guests and for someone who pays $1100/mo in rent to be required to 'deal with it'. Having friends over to the house for dinner, drinks or whatever is absolutely fine. Week long guests who they allow to stay in our home without anyone else there, people I've never met, aren't. That's completely reasonable, yes?
I'm a quiet person and to be honest, would opt to be along and do my own thing when the alternative is be around others if what they're doing doesn't interest me. Generally, when I come home after a full day of work, I'll say a quick hello to others, get something to eat, and head off to my room to do whatever I need to or to relax and watch Modern Family or The Daily Show, or whatever.
When I discussed the topic of the week-long guests with Person A and Person B, I gleaned similar conclusions from our conversation. They seem to think that I'm not social enough (which granted, is probably true by their standards). We don't share the same circle of friends, and for Person B, the same interests. What I don't seem to understand is how that affects them, at all. In my view, my keeping to myself and being out of the way seems like it would it quite literally couldn't affect them. But somehow it does.
Could someone to take their side and better explain their frustration and help me find a way to make things easier for them?
The most direct answer that I could get from Person A was that it seems like 'I'm the housemate that they'll have to explain to others' (as a result of me not being engaged in whatever they happened to be doing on whatever night). Personally, and I've made it clear since that conversation, I don't want them to try to defend me to other people under any circumstances. That's not their job, but again -- I fail to see how this would ever come up. I'm not telling them what they can or can't do. It's not as though I'm telling them and their guests to quiet down because I'm trying to sleep at 9PM or something.
When I asked what should I do to solve this, Person A said to participate in whatever they're doing so that I'm not 'that other guy that lives here' (a role which I'm actually fine with, but anyway). For instance, they'll have some of their coworkers over in a week for a party and that is something I'd normally not involve myself with. My response is that, for an event such as this, with people I don't know, probably won't ever see again and don't really have any interest in, why should I bother with it? To put it bluntly, that just seems like me being at work for another three hours, pretend to care about something I really don't. Is this a sacrifice I have to make or am I correct that there isn't anything wrong with keeping to myself and leaving them to their own thing?
In my eyes, I'm quiet, tidy and pay the rent on time. Aside from that, am I really required to do anything else? What do I need to do to make this work?
Be as blunt as you need to be, that's what I asked this anonymously. But try to see both sides.
This is kind of a long one, please bear with me.
About a month and a half ago, I moved across California to San Francisco with two people I knew to join up with one other person and share a four bedroom house in the city. It's a great house in a great neighborhood, safe and convenient. Early on, everything seemed to be working out great. Of the people I'm living with, one I get along with well (Person A), one I didn't care much for but tolerated (Person B), and the other was someone new who is fine (Person C). The reason I decided to live with others rather than on my own was, perhaps misguided, that if I didn't do it now, I wouldn't have moved at all because I would always find an excuse not to.
The incident that triggered concerns on both sides happened about three weeks when Person B invited two traveling 'friends', who he met briefly before months ago, to stay at the house without informing me of this. The notice he gave was "we have guests for a few days, say hello" as they walked in the door. The stay was supposed to be a few days but actually turned into six nights. What is more bothersome is that he had known they were coming for more than a month, but failed to and I believe on purpose, to tell me that they were coming. He had informed the others but didn't actually disclose the length of stay.
I had a big problem with this because I didn't feel that it's acceptable at all to take it upon yourself to invite long-term guests and for someone who pays $1100/mo in rent to be required to 'deal with it'. Having friends over to the house for dinner, drinks or whatever is absolutely fine. Week long guests who they allow to stay in our home without anyone else there, people I've never met, aren't. That's completely reasonable, yes?
I'm a quiet person and to be honest, would opt to be along and do my own thing when the alternative is be around others if what they're doing doesn't interest me. Generally, when I come home after a full day of work, I'll say a quick hello to others, get something to eat, and head off to my room to do whatever I need to or to relax and watch Modern Family or The Daily Show, or whatever.
When I discussed the topic of the week-long guests with Person A and Person B, I gleaned similar conclusions from our conversation. They seem to think that I'm not social enough (which granted, is probably true by their standards). We don't share the same circle of friends, and for Person B, the same interests. What I don't seem to understand is how that affects them, at all. In my view, my keeping to myself and being out of the way seems like it would it quite literally couldn't affect them. But somehow it does.
Could someone to take their side and better explain their frustration and help me find a way to make things easier for them?
The most direct answer that I could get from Person A was that it seems like 'I'm the housemate that they'll have to explain to others' (as a result of me not being engaged in whatever they happened to be doing on whatever night). Personally, and I've made it clear since that conversation, I don't want them to try to defend me to other people under any circumstances. That's not their job, but again -- I fail to see how this would ever come up. I'm not telling them what they can or can't do. It's not as though I'm telling them and their guests to quiet down because I'm trying to sleep at 9PM or something.
When I asked what should I do to solve this, Person A said to participate in whatever they're doing so that I'm not 'that other guy that lives here' (a role which I'm actually fine with, but anyway). For instance, they'll have some of their coworkers over in a week for a party and that is something I'd normally not involve myself with. My response is that, for an event such as this, with people I don't know, probably won't ever see again and don't really have any interest in, why should I bother with it? To put it bluntly, that just seems like me being at work for another three hours, pretend to care about something I really don't. Is this a sacrifice I have to make or am I correct that there isn't anything wrong with keeping to myself and leaving them to their own thing?
In my eyes, I'm quiet, tidy and pay the rent on time. Aside from that, am I really required to do anything else? What do I need to do to make this work?
Be as blunt as you need to be, that's what I asked this anonymously. But try to see both sides.
Okay, first of all, yes. You should have been informed of the house guests before they arrived. But your roommate does have a right to have house guests, even for a week, I think. This should have been something that was discussed before you all moved in together, though. Perhaps you would have come to a compromise, like house guests can only stay for four days, maximum. If I were you, I'd sit down with the others and say, "I understand that you will occasionally want to have people stay over. We need to come up with a maximum stay allowance that we're all happy with, and please inform me ahead of time when you'll have overnight guests."
Second, I think your roommates are uncomfortable with you spending most of your time in the house in your room. It's hard to articulate, but I bet they're feeling like they've done something to upset you, or you don't like them, or you think they have horrible taste in socks. I would tell them, in no uncertain terms, that you like being alone and it has absolutely nothing to do with them (because I bet they think it does). That said, I think it would be nice of you to spend at least a little time with your roommates' guests next week. This is how society keeps going in a friendly, civilized manner; we sometimes fake it to be nice to each other. Just mingle a little, make some small talk, and then quietly tell one of your roommates that you're retiring for the evening and you hope they have a great party. And hopefully you'll have already told them about liking to be alone and all that.
posted by cooker girl at 7:28 AM on October 27, 2010
Second, I think your roommates are uncomfortable with you spending most of your time in the house in your room. It's hard to articulate, but I bet they're feeling like they've done something to upset you, or you don't like them, or you think they have horrible taste in socks. I would tell them, in no uncertain terms, that you like being alone and it has absolutely nothing to do with them (because I bet they think it does). That said, I think it would be nice of you to spend at least a little time with your roommates' guests next week. This is how society keeps going in a friendly, civilized manner; we sometimes fake it to be nice to each other. Just mingle a little, make some small talk, and then quietly tell one of your roommates that you're retiring for the evening and you hope they have a great party. And hopefully you'll have already told them about liking to be alone and all that.
posted by cooker girl at 7:28 AM on October 27, 2010
I think perhaps having roommates isn't for you.
It turns out - it wasn't for me, either. For slightly different reasons.
A long-term stay, in my opinion, would be over a month - not less than a week.
When I lived in Florida and came to visit my friends in Boston, I crashed at their places for 3-4 days. No idea if they told the roommates. I was quite and didn't make a mess and was out of the house for most of the day and night, anyway.
When I lived in Boston I lived in a few different places with two or more roommates. My friends have done the same (and still do). There have been plenty of times where out-of-town guests have stayed for a few days - even two weeks. Sometimes I was told about, sometimes I wasn't. I just figured that's how (younger) roommates work in the city.
Sometimes a roommate or two held low-key parties (invited over a couple of people), I never felt it was necessary for them to let me know unless it was an actual party - complete with booze, music and 8+ people.
I am very introverted and barely even knew some of the roommates I have lived with.
The last place I lived, I lived with a very social friend of mine - and I basically stayed in my room the entire time to avoid long conversations. That's when I finally decided roommates just weren't for me.
Also, when I was looking for roommates, I paid close attention to the ads and met with them beforehand - to see what kind of people they were.
Most people that were my age, living in the city, were laid back - so I knew what I was getting into. But occasionally, I would see ads that had a page full of rules about "quiet time" and "no boyfriends/girlfriends allowed", "no more than 2 friends over",. etc.
(I am quiet and wasn't very social, but those ads made me think that the person would want to have deep discussions about how I left my shoes in the living room one night. No thanks.)
But anyway, if you need roommates for financial reasons, you should create an ad similar to those.
posted by KogeLiz at 7:35 AM on October 27, 2010
It turns out - it wasn't for me, either. For slightly different reasons.
A long-term stay, in my opinion, would be over a month - not less than a week.
When I lived in Florida and came to visit my friends in Boston, I crashed at their places for 3-4 days. No idea if they told the roommates. I was quite and didn't make a mess and was out of the house for most of the day and night, anyway.
When I lived in Boston I lived in a few different places with two or more roommates. My friends have done the same (and still do). There have been plenty of times where out-of-town guests have stayed for a few days - even two weeks. Sometimes I was told about, sometimes I wasn't. I just figured that's how (younger) roommates work in the city.
Sometimes a roommate or two held low-key parties (invited over a couple of people), I never felt it was necessary for them to let me know unless it was an actual party - complete with booze, music and 8+ people.
I am very introverted and barely even knew some of the roommates I have lived with.
The last place I lived, I lived with a very social friend of mine - and I basically stayed in my room the entire time to avoid long conversations. That's when I finally decided roommates just weren't for me.
Also, when I was looking for roommates, I paid close attention to the ads and met with them beforehand - to see what kind of people they were.
Most people that were my age, living in the city, were laid back - so I knew what I was getting into. But occasionally, I would see ads that had a page full of rules about "quiet time" and "no boyfriends/girlfriends allowed", "no more than 2 friends over",. etc.
(I am quiet and wasn't very social, but those ads made me think that the person would want to have deep discussions about how I left my shoes in the living room one night. No thanks.)
But anyway, if you need roommates for financial reasons, you should create an ad similar to those.
posted by KogeLiz at 7:35 AM on October 27, 2010
How old are you and your roommates? That fact that someone had guests over for six days without asking indicates youngish (hopefully). You need to talk to the person that had the guests over, not the other two. Otherwise you are just doing some sort of passive aggresive complaining. Does this person do this all the time? If this was a one-off thing, I'd choose another battle.
There's nothing wrong with keeping to yourself. But the dynamic of your house seems more social. You're not fitting into your house culture. It sounds like if you're not prepared to ever become friends with your roommates, you might need to find new roommates.
Do you do anything for fun outside the house? Hobbies, friends? Do more of that, that might help you deal with your very social roommates. Otherwise, look for a new place.
posted by shinyshiny at 7:38 AM on October 27, 2010
There's nothing wrong with keeping to yourself. But the dynamic of your house seems more social. You're not fitting into your house culture. It sounds like if you're not prepared to ever become friends with your roommates, you might need to find new roommates.
Do you do anything for fun outside the house? Hobbies, friends? Do more of that, that might help you deal with your very social roommates. Otherwise, look for a new place.
posted by shinyshiny at 7:38 AM on October 27, 2010
Also, I should mention, none of my roommates ever cared that I stayed in my room for 6+ hours at a time and never talked to them.
I do know from what a couple of friends have told me, that sometimes roommates are also looking for a pal. But it's not like I was going to say, "Well, this looks like a nice place, and you guys seem cool. But don't expect me to be your pal!"
But I guess, in retrospective, that's pretty much how I acted.
If any of them told me that I needed to be more social and include myself in their activities, I would probably just say, "no thanks." and leave it at that.
In my opinion, you do NOT have to feel you need to do everything your roommates are doing. I never did. Did I come off looking like a jerk? I dunno, maybe.
posted by KogeLiz at 7:41 AM on October 27, 2010
I do know from what a couple of friends have told me, that sometimes roommates are also looking for a pal. But it's not like I was going to say, "Well, this looks like a nice place, and you guys seem cool. But don't expect me to be your pal!"
But I guess, in retrospective, that's pretty much how I acted.
If any of them told me that I needed to be more social and include myself in their activities, I would probably just say, "no thanks." and leave it at that.
In my opinion, you do NOT have to feel you need to do everything your roommates are doing. I never did. Did I come off looking like a jerk? I dunno, maybe.
posted by KogeLiz at 7:41 AM on October 27, 2010
Well, put it this way -- truly social roommates would be empathetic to your feelings about house space and security and would have worked with you to make sure everyone's boundaries are respected. Having a bunch of strangers over, who might steal your shit for all you know, and not consulting you about it is really not cool, unless it was made abundantly clear from the beginning that the lifestyle there is not normal. From what I can tell, using your introversion as a straw man is a dick move to cover up their lack of grace about this. If you can't reach an understanding it makes more sense to look at it like a bad date and move out as soon as practical.
posted by crapmatic at 7:45 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by crapmatic at 7:45 AM on October 27, 2010
I think you are right about all concerns you mentioned. I also think it would be best for everyone involved, if you split up. It seems like a matter of different expectations: you wanted a renting arrangement, they wanted a household/living arrangement. These things won't change after an honest and cordial conversation about this subject and they certainly won't change if things start escalating. You saw the opportunity as a way to move to SF, move a little bit more and you're there. But do it before bitterness becomes involved.
posted by ouke at 7:49 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by ouke at 7:49 AM on October 27, 2010
Something I meant to say but neglected: there is absolutely nothing wrong with being an introvert, and you have every right to feel the things you feel. However, you're living with other people. If you still want or need to do so, there are certain social norms that need to be dealt with. Laying ground rules will alleviate some of the problems you're having with your much more social than you roommates.
posted by cooker girl at 7:52 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by cooker girl at 7:52 AM on October 27, 2010
I need considerable alone time, but I always found it a bit unnerving when roommates were NEVER social with me. It feels like they dislike me. We don't need to be BFFs, but some pleasant socializing now and then just kinda greases the wheels -- makes it easier to cope with the small frictions and not let things build up, makes it feel like the people in the house are happy to see you and happy to be around you, etc. And a little chatting makes me realize, "Oh, she has a test coming up, I will be extra quiet" or "oh, she really likes ribs, and I was thinking of making ribs this week, I will make sure to make extra to share!"
Even if we just watched half an hour of TV together a couple times a week and chatted during commercials, it made the home feel more warm and friendly. Not everybody needs this, but even as a person who likes a lot of alone time and doesn't need to live in their roommates' pockets, I feel uncomfortable if I'm not at least FRIENDLY with my roommates.
I also did always make an effort to at least pop by a roommate's social gathering to be introduced to everyone and make a few polite comments. "Oooooh, these cookies do look good, thanks. No, I'd love to join you, but I have a ton of studying to do before tomorrow. Oh, no, you're not bothering me at all, I have my headphones on! So nice to meet you all, I'll see you later!" They're right that "My friendly roommate who's a bit shy and studies a lot/works at home a lot" is very different than "My silent roommate who runs swiftly through the social areas of the house to go hide upstairs" -- because with the latter you're thinking through the whole gathering, "Oh, God, we're disturbing the angry guy!" So yeah, drop by, say hi, smile, eat like one thing, then claim you have to work or study or you're deep in a book you can't possibly leave and you'll see them all later, have fun!
Even today, when my husband has a bunch of friends over to do things I could not care less about (tabletop gaming), with people I often don't know, I always make sure to drop by for five minutes to say hello and be pleasant. You want people to feel welcome.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:04 AM on October 27, 2010
Even if we just watched half an hour of TV together a couple times a week and chatted during commercials, it made the home feel more warm and friendly. Not everybody needs this, but even as a person who likes a lot of alone time and doesn't need to live in their roommates' pockets, I feel uncomfortable if I'm not at least FRIENDLY with my roommates.
I also did always make an effort to at least pop by a roommate's social gathering to be introduced to everyone and make a few polite comments. "Oooooh, these cookies do look good, thanks. No, I'd love to join you, but I have a ton of studying to do before tomorrow. Oh, no, you're not bothering me at all, I have my headphones on! So nice to meet you all, I'll see you later!" They're right that "My friendly roommate who's a bit shy and studies a lot/works at home a lot" is very different than "My silent roommate who runs swiftly through the social areas of the house to go hide upstairs" -- because with the latter you're thinking through the whole gathering, "Oh, God, we're disturbing the angry guy!" So yeah, drop by, say hi, smile, eat like one thing, then claim you have to work or study or you're deep in a book you can't possibly leave and you'll see them all later, have fun!
Even today, when my husband has a bunch of friends over to do things I could not care less about (tabletop gaming), with people I often don't know, I always make sure to drop by for five minutes to say hello and be pleasant. You want people to feel welcome.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:04 AM on October 27, 2010
We lived for a long time in a house with five people. Four of us were social together, shared interests, and eventually, over time, formed a little family.
The fifth person was more like you. He lived on the third floor, kept very different hours than the rest of us, and we barely saw him.
It was tough to communicate with him, because we never saw him. At least three different times we had guests over, and we had to deal with some version of "hey, who is that strange guy in your kitchen?" because he had come downstairs (for coffee or whatever, no big deal) while we had friends over and had completely failed to interact with them -- not a "Hi" not a head-nod -- just walked into the kitchen and acted like our guests weren't even there. He was like a ghost haunting our house, not someone living with us in it.
What I don't seem to understand is how that affects them, at all.
Its weird and uncomfortable to have someone in your home that you virtually never speak with. Living together is, at its core, a trust relationship, and its very hard to build those bonds of trust when one of the people lives inside a cocoon for 95% of the time.
I don't think you have to completely change your ways. What I would encourage you to do is to find ways to at least meet any guests your housemates have over. If they are having a party, come downstairs for twenty or thirty minutes, meet everyone, share in a bit of conversation, and then politely excuse yourself. Make time to have meals with your housemates (just the four of you). Do they like the Daily Show as well? Maybe make a point of watching it downstairs (when there isn't a party or guests) and implicitly invite them to watch along side you.
On the other hand, the traveling Australians thing was weird, and rude (although I would also not call 6 days as "long-term"). He should have told you they were coming and disclosed the length of their stay (and, truthfully, if they were in the living room vs. in a guest room, asked if they could stay rather than assuming), but I bet ten dollars that from his point of view you're a little scary and unapproachable, so it was very intimidating for him to even approach you about it.
posted by anastasiav at 8:08 AM on October 27, 2010
The fifth person was more like you. He lived on the third floor, kept very different hours than the rest of us, and we barely saw him.
It was tough to communicate with him, because we never saw him. At least three different times we had guests over, and we had to deal with some version of "hey, who is that strange guy in your kitchen?" because he had come downstairs (for coffee or whatever, no big deal) while we had friends over and had completely failed to interact with them -- not a "Hi" not a head-nod -- just walked into the kitchen and acted like our guests weren't even there. He was like a ghost haunting our house, not someone living with us in it.
What I don't seem to understand is how that affects them, at all.
Its weird and uncomfortable to have someone in your home that you virtually never speak with. Living together is, at its core, a trust relationship, and its very hard to build those bonds of trust when one of the people lives inside a cocoon for 95% of the time.
I don't think you have to completely change your ways. What I would encourage you to do is to find ways to at least meet any guests your housemates have over. If they are having a party, come downstairs for twenty or thirty minutes, meet everyone, share in a bit of conversation, and then politely excuse yourself. Make time to have meals with your housemates (just the four of you). Do they like the Daily Show as well? Maybe make a point of watching it downstairs (when there isn't a party or guests) and implicitly invite them to watch along side you.
On the other hand, the traveling Australians thing was weird, and rude (although I would also not call 6 days as "long-term"). He should have told you they were coming and disclosed the length of their stay (and, truthfully, if they were in the living room vs. in a guest room, asked if they could stay rather than assuming), but I bet ten dollars that from his point of view you're a little scary and unapproachable, so it was very intimidating for him to even approach you about it.
posted by anastasiav at 8:08 AM on October 27, 2010
This is me taking your roommates' side and being insensitive to your introverted personality:
The fact that you're the housemate "they'll have to explain to others" means they find your level of introversion unusual -- to them, it's literally remarkable. To them, what's normal is a bunch of people relaxing after work together, as friends. To them, your retreat into your room is creepy -- "What does anonymous do all day in his room, anyway?" -- or a judgment on them -- "Why doesn't anonymous want to watch the Daily Show with us? Does he think he's too good for us?" You're the mystery behind the door. When their friends come over, jerk a thumb at your bedroom, and ask "Who's in there? Why won't he come out? Why won't he share a beer with us?" your roommates give the shoulder shrug and eyeball roll that people reserve for putulant children and oddball adults.
That puts you in a tough spot, because as the oddball, you have no social capital. And negotiating unwritten boundaries, like the duration of houseguest visits, requires social capital. "Why should we care what anonymous thinks? He stays in his room all day anyway," they will say if you complain. And by that, they mean two things: first, how could our houseguests even bother someone who stays cooped up in his room all the time. And second, why should we care what anonymous thinks, when he doesn't care about us, and we, consequently, don't care about him.
On preview, anastasiav nails it: He was like a ghost haunting our house, not someone living with us in it.
posted by hhc5 at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2010
The fact that you're the housemate "they'll have to explain to others" means they find your level of introversion unusual -- to them, it's literally remarkable. To them, what's normal is a bunch of people relaxing after work together, as friends. To them, your retreat into your room is creepy -- "What does anonymous do all day in his room, anyway?" -- or a judgment on them -- "Why doesn't anonymous want to watch the Daily Show with us? Does he think he's too good for us?" You're the mystery behind the door. When their friends come over, jerk a thumb at your bedroom, and ask "Who's in there? Why won't he come out? Why won't he share a beer with us?" your roommates give the shoulder shrug and eyeball roll that people reserve for putulant children and oddball adults.
That puts you in a tough spot, because as the oddball, you have no social capital. And negotiating unwritten boundaries, like the duration of houseguest visits, requires social capital. "Why should we care what anonymous thinks? He stays in his room all day anyway," they will say if you complain. And by that, they mean two things: first, how could our houseguests even bother someone who stays cooped up in his room all the time. And second, why should we care what anonymous thinks, when he doesn't care about us, and we, consequently, don't care about him.
On preview, anastasiav nails it: He was like a ghost haunting our house, not someone living with us in it.
posted by hhc5 at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2010
Nothing you've said about your roommates sounds that out of the ordinary for a roommate situation. I also don't think there's anything wrong with you wanting what you want. There is a large spectrum between "let's share a docmicile for economic reasons" and "let's live together". I just don't think you guys are a good match.
posted by the jam at 8:36 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by the jam at 8:36 AM on October 27, 2010
Did you talk to A and B about the houseguest issue together, or separately? What about C? It sounds like it might be time for a house meeting about what everyone is comfortable with and if there should be future rules.
If your other roommates see no problem with the guests and/or think you're overreacting, that's a good sign you should move out.
If you're too nervous or conflict-averse to even call a house meeting, that's an even better sign you should move out.
Your roommates don't sound like considerate people, although we're only hearing one side of the story. Living with roommates is hard; it's harder still when you're an introvert. I'm an introvert and need a lot of personal space, so roommates give me that "arrgh he's breathing on me" feeling really quickly, even if they're quiet and keep to themselves. Which means it can be just as uncomfortable to live with an introvert as with an extrovert.
Start looking for somewhere else to live. Ask your potential future roommates what they do on evenings and weekends. Roommates with busy schedules are great - more alone time at the house.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:37 AM on October 27, 2010
If your other roommates see no problem with the guests and/or think you're overreacting, that's a good sign you should move out.
If you're too nervous or conflict-averse to even call a house meeting, that's an even better sign you should move out.
Your roommates don't sound like considerate people, although we're only hearing one side of the story. Living with roommates is hard; it's harder still when you're an introvert. I'm an introvert and need a lot of personal space, so roommates give me that "arrgh he's breathing on me" feeling really quickly, even if they're quiet and keep to themselves. Which means it can be just as uncomfortable to live with an introvert as with an extrovert.
Start looking for somewhere else to live. Ask your potential future roommates what they do on evenings and weekends. Roommates with busy schedules are great - more alone time at the house.
posted by Metroid Baby at 8:37 AM on October 27, 2010
My general answer to your question is to sit all of your roommates down, ideally together and all at once, and discuss this. Suggest that there be a standing policy about guests - X amount of advance notice, a limit of Y days, veto power for the other roommates, whatever. Then prepare to compromise, since, well, they're not you and will likely have their own ideas about what constitutes a fair arrangement. Hooray, you are now a grown-ass adult dealing with roommates in a mature fashion!
However, reading your post I noticed this:
I had a big problem with this because I didn't feel that it's acceptable at all to take it upon yourself to invite long-term guests and for someone who pays $1100/mo in rent to be required to 'deal with it'.
As a seasoned haver of roommates (12 years, including 3 in a shared loft with 15+ people living there at any given time), please take my advice on this.
6 days is not "long term guests". Now, it might be longer than your comfort zone. And Roommate B definitely should have asked (not announced, but asked) before inviting them. With as much notice as humanly possible.
And, yes, if you have roommates, whether you pay $11 or $1100, you are required to "deal with" the fact that they are sometimes going to want to have guests. You cannot be entirely free of this ever happening, unless you move out and live on your own.
posted by Sara C. at 8:39 AM on October 27, 2010
However, reading your post I noticed this:
I had a big problem with this because I didn't feel that it's acceptable at all to take it upon yourself to invite long-term guests and for someone who pays $1100/mo in rent to be required to 'deal with it'.
As a seasoned haver of roommates (12 years, including 3 in a shared loft with 15+ people living there at any given time), please take my advice on this.
6 days is not "long term guests". Now, it might be longer than your comfort zone. And Roommate B definitely should have asked (not announced, but asked) before inviting them. With as much notice as humanly possible.
And, yes, if you have roommates, whether you pay $11 or $1100, you are required to "deal with" the fact that they are sometimes going to want to have guests. You cannot be entirely free of this ever happening, unless you move out and live on your own.
posted by Sara C. at 8:39 AM on October 27, 2010
First of all, on the issue of the Australians: Yes, I agree that was a dick move, and while I don't see six days as long-term, Person B should have asked permission of all of you first.
Now, to the issue of being introverted around your roommates:
I bet they're feeling like they've done something to upset you, or you don't like them....
... I always found it a bit unnerving when roommates were NEVER social with me. It feels like they dislike me.
Its weird and uncomfortable to have someone in your home that you virtually never speak with. Living together is, at its core, a trust relationship, and its very hard to build those bonds of trust when one of the people lives inside a cocoon for 95% of the time.
These things, right here.
What's the one thing that any person does about someone he doesn't like? If at all possible, he stays away from them.
What I don't seem to understand is how that affects them, at all. In my view, my keeping to myself and being out of the way seems like it would it quite literally couldn't affect them. But somehow it does.
You're staying away from your roommates. You're doing a bare minimum amount of social interaction with them, which doesn't allow them to build trust.
You see yourself as a quiet person minding his own business, but your actions (as described by you) are the actions of a person who absolutely cannot STAND the people he's living with.
After all, if you liked your roommates, you'd spend at least a little time with them. But you don't want to spend time with then, so there's only one conclusion they can reach.
I used to be equally introverted (and on some occasions, I still am). But one day, after I'd walked out of a family event to go read a book, my mother sat me down and explained to me that my relatives thought I didn't like them, because I always left so quickly after saying the perfunctory 'hellos'.
I was floored. I love my relatives. I thought I was doing the polite thing by getting out of the way to let the adults talk. But then I remembered a kid in school who didn't like me, and how he always left a room within minutes of my entering it. He'd exchange pleasantries, and then poof! Gone.
I realized that my actions were exactly the same as his. No wonder my relatives thought I didn't care for them.
You're doing the same thing.
For instance, they'll have some of their coworkers over in a week for a party and that is something I'd normally not involve myself with. My response is that, for an event such as this, with people I don't know, probably won't ever see again and don't really have any interest in, why should I bother with it? To put it bluntly, that just seems like me being at work for another three hours, pretend to care about something I really don't.
Here's how your roommate probably sees it:
ROOMMATE: You seem like a pretty cool person, and I'd like the chance to get to know you better. I'm having a party next week, wanna come? It'd be a great chance for us to get to know each other better, and you'd probably meet some cool people in the process!
YOU: Fuck, no.
ROOMMATE: ...
Is this a sacrifice I have to make or am I correct that there isn't anything wrong with keeping to myself and leaving them to their own thing?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be by yourself.
But you have to answer this question: am I comfortable living with people who are convinced I don't like them? Because from what you've described, you're on your way to convincing them of that.
Oh, and nthing what anastasiav said: He was like a ghost haunting our house, not someone living with us in it.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:53 AM on October 27, 2010
Now, to the issue of being introverted around your roommates:
I bet they're feeling like they've done something to upset you, or you don't like them....
... I always found it a bit unnerving when roommates were NEVER social with me. It feels like they dislike me.
Its weird and uncomfortable to have someone in your home that you virtually never speak with. Living together is, at its core, a trust relationship, and its very hard to build those bonds of trust when one of the people lives inside a cocoon for 95% of the time.
These things, right here.
What's the one thing that any person does about someone he doesn't like? If at all possible, he stays away from them.
What I don't seem to understand is how that affects them, at all. In my view, my keeping to myself and being out of the way seems like it would it quite literally couldn't affect them. But somehow it does.
You're staying away from your roommates. You're doing a bare minimum amount of social interaction with them, which doesn't allow them to build trust.
You see yourself as a quiet person minding his own business, but your actions (as described by you) are the actions of a person who absolutely cannot STAND the people he's living with.
After all, if you liked your roommates, you'd spend at least a little time with them. But you don't want to spend time with then, so there's only one conclusion they can reach.
I used to be equally introverted (and on some occasions, I still am). But one day, after I'd walked out of a family event to go read a book, my mother sat me down and explained to me that my relatives thought I didn't like them, because I always left so quickly after saying the perfunctory 'hellos'.
I was floored. I love my relatives. I thought I was doing the polite thing by getting out of the way to let the adults talk. But then I remembered a kid in school who didn't like me, and how he always left a room within minutes of my entering it. He'd exchange pleasantries, and then poof! Gone.
I realized that my actions were exactly the same as his. No wonder my relatives thought I didn't care for them.
You're doing the same thing.
For instance, they'll have some of their coworkers over in a week for a party and that is something I'd normally not involve myself with. My response is that, for an event such as this, with people I don't know, probably won't ever see again and don't really have any interest in, why should I bother with it? To put it bluntly, that just seems like me being at work for another three hours, pretend to care about something I really don't.
Here's how your roommate probably sees it:
ROOMMATE: You seem like a pretty cool person, and I'd like the chance to get to know you better. I'm having a party next week, wanna come? It'd be a great chance for us to get to know each other better, and you'd probably meet some cool people in the process!
YOU: Fuck, no.
ROOMMATE: ...
Is this a sacrifice I have to make or am I correct that there isn't anything wrong with keeping to myself and leaving them to their own thing?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be by yourself.
But you have to answer this question: am I comfortable living with people who are convinced I don't like them? Because from what you've described, you're on your way to convincing them of that.
Oh, and nthing what anastasiav said: He was like a ghost haunting our house, not someone living with us in it.
posted by magstheaxe at 8:53 AM on October 27, 2010
To talk a little more about the introvert issue and spending time with your roommates:
One of my two roommates is like this.
It makes living with her very difficult, because there is never a good opportunity to talk about anything. Which makes organizing the petty logistics of a living situation difficult - for instance I've dipped into her milk for my coffee a few times, but telling her that is going to be a huge production because she avoids me. So I'm going to buy milk in hopes that she will feel free to use some, but since we won't have talked about it she won't know and will probably feel taken advantage of over the whole thing no matter what I do.
I don't need her to be my BFF or anything, but leaving the door to her bedroom open would be a huge step forward. Or if she were to actually use the common spaces of the house so that I could run into her every once in a while and say stuff like, "I used some of your milk - feel free to use mine when I buy more, or whatever else."
posted by Sara C. at 9:02 AM on October 27, 2010
One of my two roommates is like this.
It makes living with her very difficult, because there is never a good opportunity to talk about anything. Which makes organizing the petty logistics of a living situation difficult - for instance I've dipped into her milk for my coffee a few times, but telling her that is going to be a huge production because she avoids me. So I'm going to buy milk in hopes that she will feel free to use some, but since we won't have talked about it she won't know and will probably feel taken advantage of over the whole thing no matter what I do.
I don't need her to be my BFF or anything, but leaving the door to her bedroom open would be a huge step forward. Or if she were to actually use the common spaces of the house so that I could run into her every once in a while and say stuff like, "I used some of your milk - feel free to use mine when I buy more, or whatever else."
posted by Sara C. at 9:02 AM on October 27, 2010
In my view, my keeping to myself and being out of the way seems like it would it quite literally couldn't affect them. But somehow it does.
Take the houseguests thing: for many people living in a group-house situation, having 1 or 2 friends stay for a week just isn't a big deal: yes, ideally it would be just for a couple of days, but plans change, and 3 days turns into a week. Having guests around (who are strangers to your other roommates) isn't a big deal for your roommates but it is for you, in part because you're an introvert. So it does affect them when everyone else is more-or-less comfortable with something you're not comfortable with.
This changes with age, by the way. I mean, hopefully you'll have a job and living situation soon where you can afford to rent/buy your own place, but if you don't, older roomates (late 20s/early 30s) just look at their living situation as "a place to live" and an apartments where roommates respect/expect their own privacy to a larger degree.
posted by deanc at 9:36 AM on October 27, 2010
Take the houseguests thing: for many people living in a group-house situation, having 1 or 2 friends stay for a week just isn't a big deal: yes, ideally it would be just for a couple of days, but plans change, and 3 days turns into a week. Having guests around (who are strangers to your other roommates) isn't a big deal for your roommates but it is for you, in part because you're an introvert. So it does affect them when everyone else is more-or-less comfortable with something you're not comfortable with.
This changes with age, by the way. I mean, hopefully you'll have a job and living situation soon where you can afford to rent/buy your own place, but if you don't, older roomates (late 20s/early 30s) just look at their living situation as "a place to live" and an apartments where roommates respect/expect their own privacy to a larger degree.
posted by deanc at 9:36 AM on October 27, 2010
Look, I am you. All the stuff you emphasised I could have said and have certainly thought myself at various points.
But that's not how human interaction works. Just because they are your roommates you do not get to make less of an effort than you would with your co-workers/people at church/the gym...you make smalltalk, you spend time in the common areas interacting, you make their guests feel welcome and you show an interest in what they do/how their day has been etc.
And only once you've done that at least once every day you get to go and hide in your room. You can't have it both ways - be the weird antisocial stranger who never leaves his room and never talks to anybody and scares your roommates' guests and lives in the room at the end AND the guy people will want to accommodate and have positive interactions with.
It looks like your roommates are still trying to work with you on this so make sure you start to talk to them a bit, make sure you go to the party you were invited to and talk to the guests at that party. For all you know you might like some of them. Treat them like you want to be treated, be friendly and reasonable and they'll be much more likely to try to accommodate your needs as well.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2010
But that's not how human interaction works. Just because they are your roommates you do not get to make less of an effort than you would with your co-workers/people at church/the gym...you make smalltalk, you spend time in the common areas interacting, you make their guests feel welcome and you show an interest in what they do/how their day has been etc.
And only once you've done that at least once every day you get to go and hide in your room. You can't have it both ways - be the weird antisocial stranger who never leaves his room and never talks to anybody and scares your roommates' guests and lives in the room at the end AND the guy people will want to accommodate and have positive interactions with.
It looks like your roommates are still trying to work with you on this so make sure you start to talk to them a bit, make sure you go to the party you were invited to and talk to the guests at that party. For all you know you might like some of them. Treat them like you want to be treated, be friendly and reasonable and they'll be much more likely to try to accommodate your needs as well.
posted by koahiatamadl at 10:56 AM on October 27, 2010
I know rents in SF are exorbitant, but couldn't you find a one-bedroom for $1100? You're not a people person. That's OK. There's nothing wrong with you. But you probably shouldn't live with people.
posted by fantoche at 1:09 PM on October 27, 2010
posted by fantoche at 1:09 PM on October 27, 2010
This sounds quite a lot like me (why I live alone now) so I can only try to help with a couple of things:
1) You need to stop by their party to hang out for awhile (30-60 minutes). It would be extremely strange to eschew a party being held in your own house unless you had a) a huge school assignment due b) a huge work assignment due c) a sickness. There's "introverted," and there's "I hate you all."
2) 6 days is not a long term stay. Most people I know would have at least mentioned it first, if not asked, though. Let your roommates know to let you know if folks are going to be staying over in the future, but as long as the same roommate doesn't constantly have people on the couch, let go of the "asking permission" thing.
3) After you've decompressed for awhile in your room after work, try to pop out and hang out with the roommates for at least a half hour or so. See if they want to go get food, watch an episode of something, play video games, that sort of thing. It really won't take that much hanging out time before they think of you as the "quiet" one rather than the "I hate you all" one. The time you have to hang out varies inversely with how well you already know the people. When I lived with good friends, I could skip entire evenings. They still joked about how much time I spent in my room, but no one thought I hated them or anything.
If any of that's a deal breaker, then I'd recommend getting your own place. When three out of four people hang out and the fourth locks himself in his room after saying "hi," he will be the one people tip toe around, even if you're clean, polite, and pay bills on time.
posted by wending my way at 1:26 PM on October 27, 2010
1) You need to stop by their party to hang out for awhile (30-60 minutes). It would be extremely strange to eschew a party being held in your own house unless you had a) a huge school assignment due b) a huge work assignment due c) a sickness. There's "introverted," and there's "I hate you all."
2) 6 days is not a long term stay. Most people I know would have at least mentioned it first, if not asked, though. Let your roommates know to let you know if folks are going to be staying over in the future, but as long as the same roommate doesn't constantly have people on the couch, let go of the "asking permission" thing.
3) After you've decompressed for awhile in your room after work, try to pop out and hang out with the roommates for at least a half hour or so. See if they want to go get food, watch an episode of something, play video games, that sort of thing. It really won't take that much hanging out time before they think of you as the "quiet" one rather than the "I hate you all" one. The time you have to hang out varies inversely with how well you already know the people. When I lived with good friends, I could skip entire evenings. They still joked about how much time I spent in my room, but no one thought I hated them or anything.
If any of that's a deal breaker, then I'd recommend getting your own place. When three out of four people hang out and the fourth locks himself in his room after saying "hi," he will be the one people tip toe around, even if you're clean, polite, and pay bills on time.
posted by wending my way at 1:26 PM on October 27, 2010
Don't know if you're still following this and it might be strange, but if you're looking for a place in the Castro/Upper Market area for December 1st (cheaper rent), email me. Our household is going through a sort of similar dynamic with the person moving out.
posted by flamk at 12:53 AM on November 9, 2010
posted by flamk at 12:53 AM on November 9, 2010
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It's awful, for me; it's on my list of reasons to never get a roommate again (I am an extreme introvert; my ideal week would have perhaps one hour of total contact with strangers and perhaps 30 waking hours of total isolation.) I've had people go to dorm managers and demand to be moved because I was, amongst other things, not a hang out and be BFFs kind of roommate.
In my view, your options are:
- get your own place,
- buy everyone a copy of "Please Understand Me" and pray they actually get it, and
- suck it up and "be at work" another few hours at night, for the express purpose of improving these relationships.
posted by SMPA at 7:20 AM on October 27, 2010