The house I rent is going to hell, and the landlord is M.I.A. What to do?
October 27, 2010 7:04 AM Subscribe
Landlord Fiasco Filter: landlord dug up entire yard to replace pipe, then disappeared for two months, leaving the entire yard a giant pile of dirt which has now turned to mud. And it's getting worse. He is unreachable. What to do? So much special snowflake after the jump.
YANAL/YANML: Long, long story, see the end for a tl;dr. And thank you all in advance.
This is in Portland, Oregon.
The Background
My SO, myself and one other person rent a house. There was another housemate living in the basement apartment until last June, when, due to poor initial construction, the water drain pipe, which was simply emptying the rain water from the gutters straight into the ground, caused water to flood the basement apartment, destroying the carpet and a portion of the wall. As there was already a mold problem in the basement that the landlord refused to do anything about, the housemate in the basement simply moved out.
After the basement renter moved out, the landlord started working on fixing it. He hired some workers to come to the house and dig up most of the yard, removing pieces of foundation in the process and leaving mounds and mounds of dirt all over the front yard, the driveway and the backyard. The drain was replaced and then the landlord and his hired help all disappeared. The basement was never fixed to rent out again, and has since been unoccupied. All the tools, stacks of cement blocks, garbage, etc. have all been left laying around the yard and the driveway. This was two months ago, and because this is Portland, the rain has turned all of the large dirt mounds he left into mud slides.
His truck full of trash has also been sitting in front of our house for this entire period of time (~2 months).
Over the weekend, to make matters worse, because installing the pipe had required him to dig out around the fence that surrounds our backyard, and because of the rain and wind, the fence gave way, fell over, and is now leaning against the side of our house.
It should be noted that this unfinished project is only one of the many things that really need to be fixed - the steps out the back door are so rotten and dilapidated that it's only a matter of time before they collapse under someone. These things I've been cool with letting slide. But the situation outside is getting pretty crazy.
Our landlord is, for all intents and purposes, unreachable. Despite many calls to him and messages left by all housemates, no calls have been returned.
It should also be mentioned that shortly after we moved into the house, we realized that the landlord was not really financially solvent, and that he was in any number of mortgage assistance programs, was receiving many letters a day from collection and state agencies, etc. Several times we have had foreclosure notices on the door, only to later be told that 'something had been worked out.' The most recent foreclosure notice said the house was going up for public auction at the end of January. We're all assuming that, as in the past, 'something will be worked out' and the landlord will keep the house. But who knows? (It's also incredibly strange that the landlord, who is having mortgage problems, has left a basement apartment unfixed and un-rented for now nearly half a year).
Last month when we paid our rent, which we deposit into his bank account at the bank, apparently (my housemate made the drop) a manager had to be called as there were issues with his account and the teller didn't know if she could even accept the checks. I'm assuming his assets are frozen or his income is being garnished by the state or something of that sort.
We signed a lease when we first moved in, which expired in July. When the landlord was at the house installing a new pipe, we asked repeatedly to sign a new lease, which he said was happy to do, but we never heard from him again regarding the lease. So I guess we are now, by default, on a month-to-month lease.
Why not just walk away? Well, we like the house, the neighborhood, and we like our housemate. Moving is a pain, and we don't really want to. We just want things fixed, and for our landlord to respond in a timely manner to our concerns. We pay rent, after all.
Questions:
1) What is the next step here? Since he isn't responding to any of us, I'm tempted to simply leave him a message saying that I will be withholding rent until he contacts us and establishes a plan for making the house habitable and taking care of the necessary repairs.
2) Our other option would be to simply do the repairs ourselves and bill our landlord, perhaps in the form of rent-reduction, acceptable under Oregon Tenant Rights: If a landlord refuses to provide certain kinds of services, and if you did not cause the problem, you may correct the problem if you first give written notice to the landlord. In the written notice, be sure to define the problem and give the landlord a reasonable amount of time to make the repairs. In some circumstances, you may then deduct the cost of the repairs from your rent, after submitting the receipts to the landlord. The law limits the time you have to wait, the kinds of problems you are allowed to fix, and the amount of money you are allowed to spend.
I know landlords are often difficult to deal with, and I'm pretty easy going generally about repairs getting done, etc. But it's been two months without a word and without so much as a sign of intention to do anything.
Advice? Thank you so much everyone. Anon because I have Portland friends on MetaFilter. I will be actively watching this thread and will follow-up with Jessamyn if there are questions.
tl;dr Landlord abandoned construction on house halfway through and has become unreachable. Do I continue to pay my rent?
Thanks again!
YANAL/YANML: Long, long story, see the end for a tl;dr. And thank you all in advance.
This is in Portland, Oregon.
The Background
My SO, myself and one other person rent a house. There was another housemate living in the basement apartment until last June, when, due to poor initial construction, the water drain pipe, which was simply emptying the rain water from the gutters straight into the ground, caused water to flood the basement apartment, destroying the carpet and a portion of the wall. As there was already a mold problem in the basement that the landlord refused to do anything about, the housemate in the basement simply moved out.
After the basement renter moved out, the landlord started working on fixing it. He hired some workers to come to the house and dig up most of the yard, removing pieces of foundation in the process and leaving mounds and mounds of dirt all over the front yard, the driveway and the backyard. The drain was replaced and then the landlord and his hired help all disappeared. The basement was never fixed to rent out again, and has since been unoccupied. All the tools, stacks of cement blocks, garbage, etc. have all been left laying around the yard and the driveway. This was two months ago, and because this is Portland, the rain has turned all of the large dirt mounds he left into mud slides.
His truck full of trash has also been sitting in front of our house for this entire period of time (~2 months).
Over the weekend, to make matters worse, because installing the pipe had required him to dig out around the fence that surrounds our backyard, and because of the rain and wind, the fence gave way, fell over, and is now leaning against the side of our house.
It should be noted that this unfinished project is only one of the many things that really need to be fixed - the steps out the back door are so rotten and dilapidated that it's only a matter of time before they collapse under someone. These things I've been cool with letting slide. But the situation outside is getting pretty crazy.
Our landlord is, for all intents and purposes, unreachable. Despite many calls to him and messages left by all housemates, no calls have been returned.
It should also be mentioned that shortly after we moved into the house, we realized that the landlord was not really financially solvent, and that he was in any number of mortgage assistance programs, was receiving many letters a day from collection and state agencies, etc. Several times we have had foreclosure notices on the door, only to later be told that 'something had been worked out.' The most recent foreclosure notice said the house was going up for public auction at the end of January. We're all assuming that, as in the past, 'something will be worked out' and the landlord will keep the house. But who knows? (It's also incredibly strange that the landlord, who is having mortgage problems, has left a basement apartment unfixed and un-rented for now nearly half a year).
Last month when we paid our rent, which we deposit into his bank account at the bank, apparently (my housemate made the drop) a manager had to be called as there were issues with his account and the teller didn't know if she could even accept the checks. I'm assuming his assets are frozen or his income is being garnished by the state or something of that sort.
We signed a lease when we first moved in, which expired in July. When the landlord was at the house installing a new pipe, we asked repeatedly to sign a new lease, which he said was happy to do, but we never heard from him again regarding the lease. So I guess we are now, by default, on a month-to-month lease.
Why not just walk away? Well, we like the house, the neighborhood, and we like our housemate. Moving is a pain, and we don't really want to. We just want things fixed, and for our landlord to respond in a timely manner to our concerns. We pay rent, after all.
Questions:
1) What is the next step here? Since he isn't responding to any of us, I'm tempted to simply leave him a message saying that I will be withholding rent until he contacts us and establishes a plan for making the house habitable and taking care of the necessary repairs.
2) Our other option would be to simply do the repairs ourselves and bill our landlord, perhaps in the form of rent-reduction, acceptable under Oregon Tenant Rights: If a landlord refuses to provide certain kinds of services, and if you did not cause the problem, you may correct the problem if you first give written notice to the landlord. In the written notice, be sure to define the problem and give the landlord a reasonable amount of time to make the repairs. In some circumstances, you may then deduct the cost of the repairs from your rent, after submitting the receipts to the landlord. The law limits the time you have to wait, the kinds of problems you are allowed to fix, and the amount of money you are allowed to spend.
I know landlords are often difficult to deal with, and I'm pretty easy going generally about repairs getting done, etc. But it's been two months without a word and without so much as a sign of intention to do anything.
Advice? Thank you so much everyone. Anon because I have Portland friends on MetaFilter. I will be actively watching this thread and will follow-up with Jessamyn if there are questions.
tl;dr Landlord abandoned construction on house halfway through and has become unreachable. Do I continue to pay my rent?
Thanks again!
Sorry this is a really short answer, but if this were me I would probably give a month's notice and move somewhere else... I don't think I would go down the route of not paying rent because (not that I'm an expert) I don't expect that withholding rent would put you in the best position legally, if things were to get to that point.
I hope you manage to get things sorted!
posted by lizabeth at 7:27 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
I hope you manage to get things sorted!
posted by lizabeth at 7:27 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Personally, I'd call code enforcement. Specifically, Neighborhood Inspections at 823-7306. And a lawyer for the process of putting your rent in escrow.
posted by SMPA at 7:31 AM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by SMPA at 7:31 AM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]
so you know this landlord is in deep trouble.
and you know the house is somewhere in a foreclosure process.
you also know it has been put up for auction.
also his account has been frozen at least once.
you really must like this house a lot because you are pinning an awful lot of hope on some sheriff not suddenly standing on your doorstep with an eviction notice. just because you pay rent doesn't mean that can't happen to you if the house actually gets foreclosed upon. consider your deposit already lost and plan accordingly when it comes to your last months' rent.
I would seriously consider taking all these red flags into account and starting to look at other places. other landlords have cute houses, too. write your landlord a letter if you like in which you indicate that you are concerned about the above and that at this point he needs to prove to you that the house is not in danger of being foreclosed upon. I am sure you can check on that with the city as well (someone else may know more about that).
just don't sit still and bet everything will work out without you dealing with this situation. that would be asking for trouble.
posted by krautland at 7:36 AM on October 27, 2010 [14 favorites]
and you know the house is somewhere in a foreclosure process.
you also know it has been put up for auction.
also his account has been frozen at least once.
you really must like this house a lot because you are pinning an awful lot of hope on some sheriff not suddenly standing on your doorstep with an eviction notice. just because you pay rent doesn't mean that can't happen to you if the house actually gets foreclosed upon. consider your deposit already lost and plan accordingly when it comes to your last months' rent.
I would seriously consider taking all these red flags into account and starting to look at other places. other landlords have cute houses, too. write your landlord a letter if you like in which you indicate that you are concerned about the above and that at this point he needs to prove to you that the house is not in danger of being foreclosed upon. I am sure you can check on that with the city as well (someone else may know more about that).
just don't sit still and bet everything will work out without you dealing with this situation. that would be asking for trouble.
posted by krautland at 7:36 AM on October 27, 2010 [14 favorites]
Why are you still living in a house with a mold problem, numerous structural issues, general disrepair and a landlord you know to be shady and broke--when you don't even have a lease? I mean, yes, talk to a lawyer about moving out legally. But really, a landlord who allows that much to go wrong and can't manage his business (not giving you a lease, the financial problems) is not going to fix this situation in a satisfactory way: if he pays to have the pipes fixed, he'll go cheap; if he's been refusing to address the mold issue, you're going to have a major problem sooner or later; if the stairs collapse and injure you or a guest, you or your guest will be stuck with the medical bills even if your landlord is legally be responsible; and so on. Why on earth would you stay?
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:36 AM on October 27, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:36 AM on October 27, 2010 [8 favorites]
I've been in a shady landlord situation once before. I got evicted with two weeks notice, so if you decide to go down this path be aware that there are downsides that may be much more inconvenient than having to find a new place to move to. Also keep in mind that if you want to notify your landlord that you are doing something that has legal implications, you need to go legit, send letters to his address registered mail, not just leave a message on his phone machine.
On the upside to my terrible living situation [along with the cheap rent nd the sweet location] was that when I did get evicted, local landlord/tenant law [this was in Seattle] made the landlord pay me $2K for the inconvenience of having to move on such short notice. Granted this number was high because my income was low, but it was an interesting outcome.
If you don't directly talk to a lawyer, at least talk to a competent person at a tenants union sort of place. Withholding rent is a pretty serious thing, though perhaps warranted, and you'll want ot make sure you're doing it legitimately. Nothing would be worse than living in a shitty falling apart house AND having the landlord taking you to small claims court for the rent.
And as far as the truck in front of the house, you can just call the city on him and say there's a disabled vehicle parked in front of your house. I am assuming [please check with your local laws] that there is some abandoned vehicle rule. In Seattle it was something crazy like you were supposed to move your car every 24 hours. Check into it, and good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 7:41 AM on October 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
On the upside to my terrible living situation [along with the cheap rent nd the sweet location] was that when I did get evicted, local landlord/tenant law [this was in Seattle] made the landlord pay me $2K for the inconvenience of having to move on such short notice. Granted this number was high because my income was low, but it was an interesting outcome.
If you don't directly talk to a lawyer, at least talk to a competent person at a tenants union sort of place. Withholding rent is a pretty serious thing, though perhaps warranted, and you'll want ot make sure you're doing it legitimately. Nothing would be worse than living in a shitty falling apart house AND having the landlord taking you to small claims court for the rent.
And as far as the truck in front of the house, you can just call the city on him and say there's a disabled vehicle parked in front of your house. I am assuming [please check with your local laws] that there is some abandoned vehicle rule. In Seattle it was something crazy like you were supposed to move your car every 24 hours. Check into it, and good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 7:41 AM on October 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
You don't have a lease and your house is unlivable. Your landlord does not appear to have the money to take you to court. I'd withhold rent and try to find a new place soon. If you paid a security deposite, I'd not pay that amount of rent at the end of your occupation because I doubt you'd get it back from the landlord. Of course this is not the best standpoint legally, but you have to weigh whether you really think the landlord would muster the work energy and money required to take you to court. You need to find a new place to live whether you decide to withhold rent or not though.
posted by WeekendJen at 7:48 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by WeekendJen at 7:48 AM on October 27, 2010
If the landlord doesn't have the money to make the repairs (or even his mortgage payments), how could any action you take result in his making the repairs? He can't afford it the end. The courts can't magic money into his bank account. And any money the landlord does get is going to have to go straight to his mortgage -- the bank doesn't care about your lawn.
If you don't want to live like this, you'll need to move.
posted by thebazilist at 8:03 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you don't want to live like this, you'll need to move.
posted by thebazilist at 8:03 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree. Withhold rent, call housing inspection department, and look for a new place. Good luck!
posted by particular at 8:05 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by particular at 8:05 AM on October 27, 2010
Move now, when it is under your control somewhat. Because it may NOT be under your control much longer.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:07 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:07 AM on October 27, 2010
PS. He is not making the repairs because he cannot afford to. Normally when one rents out a house home repairs are paid out of the rent money. This dude is in dire straits financially and the last thing on his mind is fixing your place up. Trust me.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:09 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:09 AM on October 27, 2010
Even if you move, you may need to get a lawyer or the city government involved in order to get your deposit back.
(And you really should move. This guy sounds like nothing but bad news)
posted by schmod at 8:22 AM on October 27, 2010
(And you really should move. This guy sounds like nothing but bad news)
posted by schmod at 8:22 AM on October 27, 2010
If you really like house and location maybe you could buy it, except for the fact that banks probably won't give you a mortgage on a house in such bad shape.
Is the mold in the basement making you sick?
posted by mareli at 8:31 AM on October 27, 2010
Is the mold in the basement making you sick?
posted by mareli at 8:31 AM on October 27, 2010
Agreeing with what valkyryn said above.
IANYL, and this is not legal advice for you, but around here, abating rent on the basis of you having to make repairs is intended for much more immediate pressing concerns, such as a pipe busting and your landlord was in Florida and unable to be reached and the flood had to be stopped and a plumber called. That your backyard is a mess and may or may not be flooding the basement -- I'd be wary of deducting or withholding rent on that basis, as it could be seen to be just an inconvenience instead of an immediate, pressing problem.
In any event, if all signs are that buddy is in deep financial trouble, and that the house is being foreclosed -- if it IS foreclosed, I wouldn't count on being able to stay there anyway.
Again, IANYL.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:43 AM on October 27, 2010
IANYL, and this is not legal advice for you, but around here, abating rent on the basis of you having to make repairs is intended for much more immediate pressing concerns, such as a pipe busting and your landlord was in Florida and unable to be reached and the flood had to be stopped and a plumber called. That your backyard is a mess and may or may not be flooding the basement -- I'd be wary of deducting or withholding rent on that basis, as it could be seen to be just an inconvenience instead of an immediate, pressing problem.
In any event, if all signs are that buddy is in deep financial trouble, and that the house is being foreclosed -- if it IS foreclosed, I wouldn't count on being able to stay there anyway.
Again, IANYL.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:43 AM on October 27, 2010
jessamyn is completely right in that whatever you decide to do, you gotta put it in writing. You have no proof of any of these voicemails that you've left - I mean, we know you're telling the truth, but any potential future judge doesn't.
(jessamyn is completely right about many, many other things but this is the specific point I wanted to make.)
posted by shiny blue object at 9:12 AM on October 27, 2010
(jessamyn is completely right about many, many other things but this is the specific point I wanted to make.)
posted by shiny blue object at 9:12 AM on October 27, 2010
Mod note: From the OP:
First, thank you all for the great answers.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:41 AM on October 27, 2010
1) The moving. I get that. And it may come to that. The house is actually really nice inside, we have a lot of space, and it's reasonably priced...so we're in this weird position. From what I've read, if the house is foreclosed on, we'd have 90 days to move. Does anyone know of a website or other resource where I can check the foreclosure status of the home?
2) If it turns out that the house is in fact being foreclosed on at the end of January, should we stop paying rent to the current owner now for no other reason than he will very, very unlikely be able to pay us back our deposit, and our deposit was about two months rent. Or will this screw us? Would it be better to pay the rent, try to get the deposit back and then take him to small claims? If we tell him we're not paying rent in exchange for our deposit, I don't think he is likely to take any serious action, given his general level of ambition and his financial status.
3) Does anyone know of a free/cheap legal advice service in Portland that I could contact to ask about the actual legal implications here?
4) To address the mold: we don't think the basement mold is making us sick, as there doesn't appear to be any mold on the main level, which is far off the ground and is much less damp and dank than the basement. However, the previous tenant in the basement was getting sick from the mold. We actually asked our landlord to test the mold, which he is libel to do, but he refused so we sent it off to be tested at our own expense. We sent cash with the samples, and it turns out the lab doesn't take cash, so they sent the samples and the cash back, and we haven't taken further action.
It really seems that he doesn't care much about the house going into foreclosure, seeing as he's left the basement un-repaired (and the repairs aren't that much) for so long, when he could have been renting it out to aid with the payments.
You guys are the greatest. Thanks for all the help.
THIS IS THE END. HE'S ABOUT TO LOSE THE HOUSE. MAKE PLANS
You live in an abandoned property. Things will not magically get better, and you've misinterpreted pretty much all the warning signs along the way that. This situation is coming to an end. Once the bank takes possession, I'm not sure what your rights are, so look into that.
My assumption is that since you've been notified about auctions before, a new owner is imminent and they may not want to keep you on as renters. Or they may - who knows?
A quick google says you should continue to pay rent to the landlord until you are notified otherwise. If you don't have a lease right now, his lenders might not know that you tenants exist. Beware the unexpected Sheriff's lock-out, I'm guessing.
I predict you could also safely save a month's rent and use that to move asap (I mean, who would come after you??) No 30 days notice - just don't pay and go as soon as you sign a new lease, hopefully within a week or two once you start looking.
Really, tho. It is time for you to move.
posted by jbenben at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
You live in an abandoned property. Things will not magically get better, and you've misinterpreted pretty much all the warning signs along the way that. This situation is coming to an end. Once the bank takes possession, I'm not sure what your rights are, so look into that.
My assumption is that since you've been notified about auctions before, a new owner is imminent and they may not want to keep you on as renters. Or they may - who knows?
A quick google says you should continue to pay rent to the landlord until you are notified otherwise. If you don't have a lease right now, his lenders might not know that you tenants exist. Beware the unexpected Sheriff's lock-out, I'm guessing.
I predict you could also safely save a month's rent and use that to move asap (I mean, who would come after you??) No 30 days notice - just don't pay and go as soon as you sign a new lease, hopefully within a week or two once you start looking.
Really, tho. It is time for you to move.
posted by jbenben at 9:59 AM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
Every state has some kind of Legal Aid offices. They tend to be quite expert at tenant/landlord issues. You should be able to find them in the community info section of the phone book, or the state Attorney General's website.
posted by theora55 at 10:16 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by theora55 at 10:16 AM on October 27, 2010
First, get a lawyer. You have four specific questions for your lawyer:
1 - You strongly suspect the landlord is no longer paying the mortgage, that the property is in foreclosure, and that you will not receive your security deposit back. What is the legality of paying your rent into escrow, instead of to the "landlord", to ensure that you receive your security deposit?
2 - The property is likely being foreclosed on. I have heard of recent legislation enacted that requires foreclosing banks/purchasers of foreclosures that are occupied by tenants to honor the terms of the existing lease that the tenants have. Does this apply to you as a tenant specifically in Portland?
3 - What amount of disrepair/torn up grounds/mold & trash in basement renders the dwelling as no longer habitable (able to pass a certificate of occupancy inspection)? Is the property at that point now? If so, you may be able to exit your lease immediately if you so desire.
4 - If you desire, can you pay for repairs/maintenance to the property out of your rent in escrow since the landlord will not?
Something else to consider - if you really, really, really like this house/property/area, perhaps you might consider finding out who the foreclosing party is and see if they're willing to sell the house to you at a price you can afford.
posted by de void at 10:52 AM on October 27, 2010
1 - You strongly suspect the landlord is no longer paying the mortgage, that the property is in foreclosure, and that you will not receive your security deposit back. What is the legality of paying your rent into escrow, instead of to the "landlord", to ensure that you receive your security deposit?
2 - The property is likely being foreclosed on. I have heard of recent legislation enacted that requires foreclosing banks/purchasers of foreclosures that are occupied by tenants to honor the terms of the existing lease that the tenants have. Does this apply to you as a tenant specifically in Portland?
3 - What amount of disrepair/torn up grounds/mold & trash in basement renders the dwelling as no longer habitable (able to pass a certificate of occupancy inspection)? Is the property at that point now? If so, you may be able to exit your lease immediately if you so desire.
4 - If you desire, can you pay for repairs/maintenance to the property out of your rent in escrow since the landlord will not?
Something else to consider - if you really, really, really like this house/property/area, perhaps you might consider finding out who the foreclosing party is and see if they're willing to sell the house to you at a price you can afford.
posted by de void at 10:52 AM on October 27, 2010
For free/cheap legal advice, try the Community Alliance of Tenants. They're a local nonprofit that runs a renters' rights hotline: (503) 288-0130.
posted by introcosm at 11:37 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by introcosm at 11:37 AM on October 27, 2010
Are you sure he hasn't run away from your city/state to avoid his financial problems? Or could he be in jail? That came to mind after I read that his truck has been sitting outside your house for two months.
posted by vickyverky at 11:50 AM on October 27, 2010
posted by vickyverky at 11:50 AM on October 27, 2010
The only thing I can help you with is the truck. You could call and report it as abandoned (which it sounds like it is). Then, the city can tow it away.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by parakeetdog at 12:36 PM on October 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'd check out this page, which has some decent information on it, including contact numbers for both state agencies and an attorney referral service or two.
posted by valkyryn at 7:12 AM on October 27, 2010