Marriage Already!
September 15, 2010 8:15 PM Subscribe
It seems that "the girlfriend" is no longer going to go by that sobriquet. We have decided, after about 15 years of living together, to get married. I am as nervous as I could possibly be. We both come from two previous failed marriages.
OTOH we love each other so much, it's scary sometimes.
I'd like some advice from people who were in very long term relationships who decided to take the plunge. As well I'd like advice from people who are in long term relationships who think it's less than a good idea.
Mundane: my husband and I met when I was 18 and he was 19. We started living together almost immediately, and married when I was 29 and he was 30. Right away we were both like, "why the fuck was this so scary? why did we wait so long??" That was 5 years ago. Things are great.
posted by peep at 8:27 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by peep at 8:27 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Mr.Doodley and I got married after 10 years living together. It was the first marriage for both of us, so obv YMMV, but the main thing I noticed was that my parents just. flat. quit. hassling me (at the age of OMG 32). Basically our families and friends started taking us seriously, although we'd been taking ourselves seriously.
What really changed? Our legal and social status, in about a million ways. The best thing, for me, is the social security (small "s" for spelling, but big "S" for significant): we were now responsible to and for each other in a recognizable, undeniable legal way. Not just our friends and families - now even the law has to take us seriously.
Good luck, and have fun!
posted by toodleydoodley at 8:31 PM on September 15, 2010
What really changed? Our legal and social status, in about a million ways. The best thing, for me, is the social security (small "s" for spelling, but big "S" for significant): we were now responsible to and for each other in a recognizable, undeniable legal way. Not just our friends and families - now even the law has to take us seriously.
Good luck, and have fun!
posted by toodleydoodley at 8:31 PM on September 15, 2010
15 years??? really??? My god, man, you know her better than most people know their spouses, your relationship has lasted longer than most marriages, and you still love each other "so much"!
It will be fine, and, congratulations!
posted by HuronBob at 8:32 PM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
It will be fine, and, congratulations!
posted by HuronBob at 8:32 PM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]
If you've lasted 15 years, you have nothing to worry about now. You're obviously suffering from "driving test syndrome" (where you can drive perfectly competently until you go for the test - then you get nervous and over-reflective). My SO and I married after 11 years together (and also after failed marriages). It was a surprisingly emotional occasion and we have never regretted it. Go for it - what else are you going to do with your life?
posted by Susurration at 8:33 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by Susurration at 8:33 PM on September 15, 2010
We got engaged on our 9 year "anniversary" and married 2 years later, largely as an excuse to take the sort of extravagantly expensive trip we'd never ordinarily do. That was 3 years ago and there are times when I look at my wife and ask myself what the hell we were waiting for.
My only advice would come too late. Travel back in time about 10 years and marry that woman and keep living happily ever after.
posted by JaredSeth at 8:34 PM on September 15, 2010
My only advice would come too late. Travel back in time about 10 years and marry that woman and keep living happily ever after.
posted by JaredSeth at 8:34 PM on September 15, 2010
Agreed on marriage not making much of a difference - if you have a strong relationship, you still have it; if you have issues, being married sure as hell won't fix them.
Me and mine had vague plans to marry eventually, but actually went through with it when the husband had just found out that he possibly had a very serious illness; I knew he was worried about "burdening" me with his illness, so I set the marriage train in motion so he could feel as a certainty that I had no intention of leaving. No regrets on either side.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 8:38 PM on September 15, 2010
Me and mine had vague plans to marry eventually, but actually went through with it when the husband had just found out that he possibly had a very serious illness; I knew he was worried about "burdening" me with his illness, so I set the marriage train in motion so he could feel as a certainty that I had no intention of leaving. No regrets on either side.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 8:38 PM on September 15, 2010
As someone who was with someone for a long time, then got married.
Rule one: Don't change anything because you get married, and marriage will not change anything.
And that is it.
posted by strixus at 8:59 PM on September 15, 2010 [11 favorites]
Rule one: Don't change anything because you get married, and marriage will not change anything.
And that is it.
posted by strixus at 8:59 PM on September 15, 2010 [11 favorites]
Talk about what it means to you to get married. The ceremony is just a symbol. What does the symbol mean to you? to your partner?
I had friends who lived together for a long time and then married. The wife had a lot of baggage about what it meant to be husband and wife and immediately felt trapped, that her partner was now taking her for granted etc. and she just bolted within a year. I don't know how much he actually changed but his second marriage has last about 20 years. As far as I can tell, the problem with her expectations about what it meant to be married were very negative about how husbands and wives related and when they got married she put those assumptions on their relationship. Like strixus, you have choice if you want anything to change and if not, marriage doesn't need to change anything between you.
posted by metahawk at 9:21 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I had friends who lived together for a long time and then married. The wife had a lot of baggage about what it meant to be husband and wife and immediately felt trapped, that her partner was now taking her for granted etc. and she just bolted within a year. I don't know how much he actually changed but his second marriage has last about 20 years. As far as I can tell, the problem with her expectations about what it meant to be married were very negative about how husbands and wives related and when they got married she put those assumptions on their relationship. Like strixus, you have choice if you want anything to change and if not, marriage doesn't need to change anything between you.
posted by metahawk at 9:21 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I basically started living with my husband-to-be right after I met him. That was about 21 years ago. We didn't get around to getting married until about 10 years ago. The relationship changed for the better, and he got medical insurance and I got a tax break.
posted by wandering_not_lost at 9:36 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by wandering_not_lost at 9:36 PM on September 15, 2010
We were together for many years before we got married, and now it's been a few years since we got married. I'm glad we got married, and I don't regret having waited (it would have been okay if we hadn't waited quite as long, too, but at least we were really sure). It was good before, it's good after. Good all around.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:42 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:42 PM on September 15, 2010
Congrats!!! Just remind yourself that the only thing changing is a word: Girlfriend / Wife. If you've been together 15 years, clearly, commitment isn't an issue. The only thing changing is a word.
Best wishes and best of luck! Congrats again!
posted by 2oh1 at 10:02 PM on September 15, 2010
Best wishes and best of luck! Congrats again!
posted by 2oh1 at 10:02 PM on September 15, 2010
I'm not married, but I ask everyone what difference it made to them. Two points have emerged:
1) No difference. It was like we threw an eeeeenormous party and then went back to our regular lives.
2) Every so often I think to myself "we'll be together, forever?"
There is a lot more of #1 than #2, though, don't worry. But if you occasionally trip out on #2, also don't worry.
posted by salvia at 10:09 PM on September 15, 2010
1) No difference. It was like we threw an eeeeenormous party and then went back to our regular lives.
2) Every so often I think to myself "we'll be together, forever?"
There is a lot more of #1 than #2, though, don't worry. But if you occasionally trip out on #2, also don't worry.
posted by salvia at 10:09 PM on September 15, 2010
Hubby and I were together five years when we got engaged, and now have been married eight more or so. Not quite as long as you guys, but ... the wedding was small and lovely and mostly nothing changed except that legally things are simpler now. And we got our wills done. You should do that, if you haven't already.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:22 PM on September 15, 2010
posted by bluedaisy at 10:22 PM on September 15, 2010
If you've lived together for fifteen years, what is the problem with getting married? The only difference here is a legality (government wise). There should be no reason not to marry.
If by some chance things do end badly, it would have ended badly even without the marriage. Marriage doesn't cause bad marriages. People cause bad marriages plain and simple. The status of a partnership has nothing at all to do with the status of a relationship. Those are two very different things.
Now if you're worried about legal issues, keeping things as a domestic partnership will still not protect you. If you live together long enough there could still be civil suits filed for property and such. Especially these days, for obvious reasons.
My "husband" though we're not really married (yet) and I have lived together for about 3 years and have had a relationship for about seven. We too had bad marriages before. His was for 11 years and mine was for a very long 22 years. We're planning on marrying each other before the end of the year. What matters is that we truly love and respect each other, and that we are best friends and are bonded in that way. The legality is just another issue.
I wish you luck! If you do get married, let us know. :)
posted by magnoliasouth at 11:14 PM on September 15, 2010
If by some chance things do end badly, it would have ended badly even without the marriage. Marriage doesn't cause bad marriages. People cause bad marriages plain and simple. The status of a partnership has nothing at all to do with the status of a relationship. Those are two very different things.
Now if you're worried about legal issues, keeping things as a domestic partnership will still not protect you. If you live together long enough there could still be civil suits filed for property and such. Especially these days, for obvious reasons.
My "husband" though we're not really married (yet) and I have lived together for about 3 years and have had a relationship for about seven. We too had bad marriages before. His was for 11 years and mine was for a very long 22 years. We're planning on marrying each other before the end of the year. What matters is that we truly love and respect each other, and that we are best friends and are bonded in that way. The legality is just another issue.
I wish you luck! If you do get married, let us know. :)
posted by magnoliasouth at 11:14 PM on September 15, 2010
peep: Right away we were both like, "why the fuck was this so scary? why did we wait so long??"
That. We went away after we got married and the most amazing thing to us was more like how little things had changed between us. It was like we'd taken this huge leap and landed... exactly where we were. Like Portal, really.
In general I do feel like there's a kind of perpetuity to being married that I really enjoy. marriage also comes with a huge amount of social and legal privilege you may not have been aware even existed until you start benefiting from it. That's a little freaky to be honest - like seriously, the government will basically give me money every year forever because one day in September of 2005 I threw a party and got a piece of paper? Really?
posted by DarlingBri at 12:45 AM on September 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
That. We went away after we got married and the most amazing thing to us was more like how little things had changed between us. It was like we'd taken this huge leap and landed... exactly where we were. Like Portal, really.
In general I do feel like there's a kind of perpetuity to being married that I really enjoy. marriage also comes with a huge amount of social and legal privilege you may not have been aware even existed until you start benefiting from it. That's a little freaky to be honest - like seriously, the government will basically give me money every year forever because one day in September of 2005 I threw a party and got a piece of paper? Really?
posted by DarlingBri at 12:45 AM on September 16, 2010 [3 favorites]
It should not come as a surprise to you that people's behavior may suddenly change as a result of a change in their perspective, or legal status. Your "girlfriend" of 15 years is no longer willing to be referred to as "girlfriend," or to accept the loose definitions of role and legality that that sobriquet provides.
Something has changed. And, after 15 years, you'd be best advised to carefully determine what, exactly, that which has changed is, before making any further life plans, one way or another.
I say this as a man who felt vaguely guilty after being married 3 times, and living with a "girlfriend" who I supported 100% for 6 years, and then married, only to be divorced from her 2 years later, after agreeing to pay $16,000 in debts she'd accrued in the start of a new business, which she incorporated, without bothering to tell me, 4 months after the marriage...
posted by paulsc at 2:53 AM on September 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Something has changed. And, after 15 years, you'd be best advised to carefully determine what, exactly, that which has changed is, before making any further life plans, one way or another.
I say this as a man who felt vaguely guilty after being married 3 times, and living with a "girlfriend" who I supported 100% for 6 years, and then married, only to be divorced from her 2 years later, after agreeing to pay $16,000 in debts she'd accrued in the start of a new business, which she incorporated, without bothering to tell me, 4 months after the marriage...
posted by paulsc at 2:53 AM on September 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
I also probably should have added, that depending on your jurisdiction, pre-nuptial agreements may or may not be especially helpful. In my particular case, above, mine wasn't, but to be fair, I did subvert the pre-nup negotiation detail because I thought I knew the woman. Perhaps the one (or fourth) time in my life I wished later I'd listened more closely to my lawyers before taking a life decision, and bargained harder, or more broadly, with those with whom I'd been personally involved, before acting.
Still, I might say that if you can, together, brook the process of negotiating a pre-nup as the upfront adversial process it truly is, after 15 years of assuming a lot together, and still get through to a wedding, mazel tov. If, later, your union dissolves, at least neither of you needs be surprised or emotionally discomfitted, if you can at least still stick to your pre-nup...
posted by paulsc at 3:31 AM on September 16, 2010
Still, I might say that if you can, together, brook the process of negotiating a pre-nup as the upfront adversial process it truly is, after 15 years of assuming a lot together, and still get through to a wedding, mazel tov. If, later, your union dissolves, at least neither of you needs be surprised or emotionally discomfitted, if you can at least still stick to your pre-nup...
posted by paulsc at 3:31 AM on September 16, 2010
You might want to read Committed by Elizabeth Gilbert, in which she wrestles with some of these very questions -- second marriages, marriage after living together, what exactly does marriage mean or change in your relationship.
posted by alicat at 6:04 AM on September 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by alicat at 6:04 AM on September 16, 2010 [2 favorites]
I married in my late 20s because "it was time". We lasted 8 years and finally pulled the plug when we realized that our relationship was not going to sustain. My only regret is that our son has to go between my home and his dad's, but all is amicable and we are both happier where we are now. That aside, I am glad I got married, as it gave me a sense of stability and enabled me to have experiences that I would not have had if I stayed single.
To "answer" your query, I did notice a change in our dynamic once we made it legal. We had lived together for about 3 years before the wedding. We became very casual and lazy about each other, which was a big part of our downfall. In my last 3 post-divorce relationships, I remember that my biggest fear was that complacency would lead to staleness and ultimately, the end of the relationship.
I see no reason for me to get married again, and my 5-years-divorced live-in SO feels the same way. But that is just me, and despite my failed marriage, I still heartily support the idea of folks making it permanent. 15 years is a long time, and you probably will have no surprises. I wish you all the best!
posted by sundrop at 6:43 AM on September 16, 2010
To "answer" your query, I did notice a change in our dynamic once we made it legal. We had lived together for about 3 years before the wedding. We became very casual and lazy about each other, which was a big part of our downfall. In my last 3 post-divorce relationships, I remember that my biggest fear was that complacency would lead to staleness and ultimately, the end of the relationship.
I see no reason for me to get married again, and my 5-years-divorced live-in SO feels the same way. But that is just me, and despite my failed marriage, I still heartily support the idea of folks making it permanent. 15 years is a long time, and you probably will have no surprises. I wish you all the best!
posted by sundrop at 6:43 AM on September 16, 2010
Well, marriage isn't something that happens to you, it's something that you create. I understand feeling gun shy about it. Marriage is a statement of commitment to the world but how that commitment manifests is entirely in your hands. I have not been in your position. Married at 23. Still married. Having our first kid at 35. Some of our well-meaning friends have said things like, "you just don't know what you're in for." Well, guess what? We had some ideas. That's why we waited so long.
I can imagine that marriage feels like that to you two, too. As someone said earlier, have a deep discussion about what this public announcement of commitment means to you and then go for it, resolved to allow it to strengthen your bond but not to define it.
Good luck and congratulations!
posted by amanda at 9:19 AM on September 16, 2010
I can imagine that marriage feels like that to you two, too. As someone said earlier, have a deep discussion about what this public announcement of commitment means to you and then go for it, resolved to allow it to strengthen your bond but not to define it.
Good luck and congratulations!
posted by amanda at 9:19 AM on September 16, 2010
I have nothing especially new to add, but will add my voice to those who got married after years together. We got married on our 10th "anniversary" together. That was 4 years ago. Things did change--in a way that was hard to define, but good.
What DarlingBri said: It was like we'd taken this huge leap and landed... exactly where we were.
It was like that for us too.
Congratulations (on staying together that long, no matter what you decide) and good luck!
posted by devotion+doubt at 9:36 AM on September 16, 2010
What DarlingBri said: It was like we'd taken this huge leap and landed... exactly where we were.
It was like that for us too.
Congratulations (on staying together that long, no matter what you decide) and good luck!
posted by devotion+doubt at 9:36 AM on September 16, 2010
I guess I'm going to be the contrary voice.
I was with my girlfriend for seven years, living together for five of those, when we finally got married. My feeling at the time was, "Ehh, it's just a piece of paper, it won't change anything." It changed everything. Right away, other people treated us differently, as a single atomic unit bonded at the hip, rather than as two separate and unique individuals. Worse yet, my own self-perception changed. I grew up without any positive role models for marriages I respected and admired. Then I found myself in a relationship model I didn't particularly like or admire. It was a disaster.
Eventually, we divorced, in a quite horrible and cliched fashion. And I am currently in a fourteen-year relationship with a fabulous girl who has as little interest in marriage as I do. To this day, I cringe when I see a form that asks me to identify myself as "Single, Married, Divorced or Widowed". I always cheat and mark myself "Single". Quite happily so.
posted by browse at 9:45 AM on September 16, 2010
I was with my girlfriend for seven years, living together for five of those, when we finally got married. My feeling at the time was, "Ehh, it's just a piece of paper, it won't change anything." It changed everything. Right away, other people treated us differently, as a single atomic unit bonded at the hip, rather than as two separate and unique individuals. Worse yet, my own self-perception changed. I grew up without any positive role models for marriages I respected and admired. Then I found myself in a relationship model I didn't particularly like or admire. It was a disaster.
Eventually, we divorced, in a quite horrible and cliched fashion. And I am currently in a fourteen-year relationship with a fabulous girl who has as little interest in marriage as I do. To this day, I cringe when I see a form that asks me to identify myself as "Single, Married, Divorced or Widowed". I always cheat and mark myself "Single". Quite happily so.
posted by browse at 9:45 AM on September 16, 2010
First of all, congratulations! I'm sure it will be a great step or, at least, you can make it into a great step.
There is a big difference between living together and being married. Marriage is not just a symbol, a piece of paper, an expensive ceremony, or an excuse to throw yourselves a big party. That's just apologetics for the individualist evangelicals out there.
You can live together, even for 15 years, with differing levels of commitment to each other, with a mental escape hatch cracked just a bit so to speak. With marriage you (are supposed to) brick over the escape hatches and hang a "forever" label on the relationship. Basically you bring the level of constraint commitment in par with the level of dedication commitment.
And that is a good thing. No, really. What a relationship needs to thrive is Safety (I've written here about Safety Theory for marriage before). And getting rid of escape hatches and saying words like "'Til death do us part" in front of a bunch of people increases a sense of Safety in your relationship. Marriage, done correctly, makes more room for truly unconditional love.
Although the very idea of unconditional love should be uncomfortable. Usually the kinds of situations where unconditional love is exercised are not very pleasant -- illness, boredom, betrayal, financial hardship, etc. You sign up for a lot when you take that spare foot out of the door and plant them firmly in a household. So it should be a little scary, but not that much. Egads man! You've been with her for 15 years!
One caveat though. When we work with couples who have been cohabiting, we need to let them know about the dangers of "sliding versus deciding." Is one of you being dragged across the threshhold, or are you stepping together? "It seemed like it was time" is not enough. Do the two of you have the same levels of dedication commitment going in? Research shows that one partner (statistically, the female) sees living together as a means to a more permanent end and the other (statistically, the male) sees it as an end and only agrees to marriage to prevent losing what he already has. This is a recipe for long term trouble.
But take care of your foundational commitment and wonderful things can happen. The hard times can be weathered and eventually become a source of joy. After 27 years, I can look at my wife and appreciate this person who knows me, loves me, and will walk through anything with me, with an assurance that we can handle this thing because we handled all the other things. Together. Always.
I hope you end up with something like that. I know many many people who have. They're not as rare as you think they are.
posted by cross_impact at 9:52 AM on September 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
There is a big difference between living together and being married. Marriage is not just a symbol, a piece of paper, an expensive ceremony, or an excuse to throw yourselves a big party. That's just apologetics for the individualist evangelicals out there.
You can live together, even for 15 years, with differing levels of commitment to each other, with a mental escape hatch cracked just a bit so to speak. With marriage you (are supposed to) brick over the escape hatches and hang a "forever" label on the relationship. Basically you bring the level of constraint commitment in par with the level of dedication commitment.
And that is a good thing. No, really. What a relationship needs to thrive is Safety (I've written here about Safety Theory for marriage before). And getting rid of escape hatches and saying words like "'Til death do us part" in front of a bunch of people increases a sense of Safety in your relationship. Marriage, done correctly, makes more room for truly unconditional love.
Although the very idea of unconditional love should be uncomfortable. Usually the kinds of situations where unconditional love is exercised are not very pleasant -- illness, boredom, betrayal, financial hardship, etc. You sign up for a lot when you take that spare foot out of the door and plant them firmly in a household. So it should be a little scary, but not that much. Egads man! You've been with her for 15 years!
One caveat though. When we work with couples who have been cohabiting, we need to let them know about the dangers of "sliding versus deciding." Is one of you being dragged across the threshhold, or are you stepping together? "It seemed like it was time" is not enough. Do the two of you have the same levels of dedication commitment going in? Research shows that one partner (statistically, the female) sees living together as a means to a more permanent end and the other (statistically, the male) sees it as an end and only agrees to marriage to prevent losing what he already has. This is a recipe for long term trouble.
But take care of your foundational commitment and wonderful things can happen. The hard times can be weathered and eventually become a source of joy. After 27 years, I can look at my wife and appreciate this person who knows me, loves me, and will walk through anything with me, with an assurance that we can handle this thing because we handled all the other things. Together. Always.
I hope you end up with something like that. I know many many people who have. They're not as rare as you think they are.
posted by cross_impact at 9:52 AM on September 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
We married after ten years.
Being the girlfriend was cool, being the wife is different in an awesome way and I am happy just thinking about it. :) It's being family. And it's true, you get treated as a unit more. If that annoys you a lot you might want to think about it again.
I can't see anything to warn you of, or to be scared of, that you haven't already encountered and mastered in your relationship.
Maybe you need to trust that whatever magical thing in your relationship makes it work will also work in your marriage. Maybe a tiny bit differently, but it will work. Because while marriage is a concept on whose definition people broadly agree, it is the two people in it who shape their own marriage. No two marriages are the same. The things that make one couple be happily married until old age aren't the same things for another couple.
Your marriage will be something that you two build together as a team out of joy and tearful anger and love, every day. It is something that you have control over to the extent that you decide what you will give and what you want. It won't just happen on you and it won't just fail while you stand helplessly by. It's yours.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:34 PM on September 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Being the girlfriend was cool, being the wife is different in an awesome way and I am happy just thinking about it. :) It's being family. And it's true, you get treated as a unit more. If that annoys you a lot you might want to think about it again.
I can't see anything to warn you of, or to be scared of, that you haven't already encountered and mastered in your relationship.
Maybe you need to trust that whatever magical thing in your relationship makes it work will also work in your marriage. Maybe a tiny bit differently, but it will work. Because while marriage is a concept on whose definition people broadly agree, it is the two people in it who shape their own marriage. No two marriages are the same. The things that make one couple be happily married until old age aren't the same things for another couple.
Your marriage will be something that you two build together as a team out of joy and tearful anger and love, every day. It is something that you have control over to the extent that you decide what you will give and what you want. It won't just happen on you and it won't just fail while you stand helplessly by. It's yours.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:34 PM on September 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
... I'm firmly convinced that the time and circumstances of one's marriage have very little to do with the relationship's trajectory/success. This isn't to say that marriage isn't important, or that you shouldn't do it... it's just that the ACT ITSELF is a drop in the bucket of life, and of consequence. Get married when you're eighteen and knocked up! Get married when you're in your fifties and have burnt out the motors on three KitchenAid mixers together already! It just DOESN'T MATTER. Things will happen the way they're gonna happen regardless.
You are utterly powerless to do anything except be decent, love her hard and hope for goodness. Good luck, you crazy kids.
posted by julthumbscrew at 8:25 PM on September 15, 2010 [10 favorites]