how to create a healthy relationship with my mother
July 3, 2010 2:11 PM Subscribe
Nervous about reconnecting with my mother. Advice?
I'm 27 years old, moved out within a week of high school graduation. Raised in a two-parent home. They divorced when I was 19, and I have a good relationship with my father at this point.
For background, my mother was the youngest of half a dozen children, neglected, and hasn't talked to her parents in several years.
My mother did her best raising me. I don't think she had a very good parenting model, and I know she wanted to do a good job of it. I think she needs a lot of reassurance that she was a good parent, and I have a lot of difficulty giving her this reassurance. This is probably because I don't think love can be given on demand, and she needs it so much that I didn't have the opportunity to give it freely.
For a long time, I would occasionally talk to her on the phone, or visit during Christmas (she values the holidays) or when I passed through town, and she came and stayed with me a few times. Sometimes these interactions went well, but there was too good of a chance that something would go wrong, and that she'd explode in anger at me. About four years ago, I finally started realizing that these occasions usually weren't my fault. I started figuring out that I didn't have to be doing anything wrong for her to explode.
The last time she blew up at me was when I visited on Christmas 2008. We haven't talked since then. I believe that she means well. I believe that she wants to have a healthy relationship with me and doesn't know how. I probably do things that contribute, like not being able to constantly reassure her that she's great.
In this past 1.5 years of reflection, I have learned a few things. I've learned that the way she has treated me in the past is emotionally abusive, that I don't like it and don't need it to be a part of my life. (I also believe that I am living an emotionally and physically healthy life, and understand that being raised by my parents contributed to this. There is no straight-forward "bad" or "good.") I've learned that it's not my fault when she gets angry. I have concluded based on past experiences that she's not welcome to stay with me, and that I will not stay with her.
I believe that I would be content to never see her again. However, I know that having a relationship with me is important to her. She contacted me a couple days before Mother's Day and asked to meet me at a restaurant I used to like in a city that is two hours away, halfway from both of us, for a light conversation. I agreed, but then our schedules didn't match up. I was very busy for the next few weeks, and told her I'd contact her in June. I put it off until the last day, but did finally get back to her. We've picked a date next week. I have plans before and after lunch so that our time will be limited to a late lunch.
I'm very nervous. I don't want to go, but I am certainly going to meet with her. I want to go to show my goodwill toward her because I know it's important to her and she's good people, but am not excited about the prospect of striking up a relationship with her. I'm afraid of picking at figurative scabs just by seeing her.
Do I bring all this up to her, and if so, how? I mean, clearly she knows, given that her email promised "light conversation," but we don't have so much in common, conversation with her makes me nervous because there's no telling when light conversation could turn into a minefield, and there's no guarantee that light conversation next weekend means no explosions in the future. I want to try to go into this with a healthy attitude and come out sane and not stressed. I'm looking for your related experiences, anecdotes, advice, suggestions, reassurances. What do I need to do, not do, etc.?
Thanks, y'all.
I'm 27 years old, moved out within a week of high school graduation. Raised in a two-parent home. They divorced when I was 19, and I have a good relationship with my father at this point.
For background, my mother was the youngest of half a dozen children, neglected, and hasn't talked to her parents in several years.
My mother did her best raising me. I don't think she had a very good parenting model, and I know she wanted to do a good job of it. I think she needs a lot of reassurance that she was a good parent, and I have a lot of difficulty giving her this reassurance. This is probably because I don't think love can be given on demand, and she needs it so much that I didn't have the opportunity to give it freely.
For a long time, I would occasionally talk to her on the phone, or visit during Christmas (she values the holidays) or when I passed through town, and she came and stayed with me a few times. Sometimes these interactions went well, but there was too good of a chance that something would go wrong, and that she'd explode in anger at me. About four years ago, I finally started realizing that these occasions usually weren't my fault. I started figuring out that I didn't have to be doing anything wrong for her to explode.
The last time she blew up at me was when I visited on Christmas 2008. We haven't talked since then. I believe that she means well. I believe that she wants to have a healthy relationship with me and doesn't know how. I probably do things that contribute, like not being able to constantly reassure her that she's great.
In this past 1.5 years of reflection, I have learned a few things. I've learned that the way she has treated me in the past is emotionally abusive, that I don't like it and don't need it to be a part of my life. (I also believe that I am living an emotionally and physically healthy life, and understand that being raised by my parents contributed to this. There is no straight-forward "bad" or "good.") I've learned that it's not my fault when she gets angry. I have concluded based on past experiences that she's not welcome to stay with me, and that I will not stay with her.
I believe that I would be content to never see her again. However, I know that having a relationship with me is important to her. She contacted me a couple days before Mother's Day and asked to meet me at a restaurant I used to like in a city that is two hours away, halfway from both of us, for a light conversation. I agreed, but then our schedules didn't match up. I was very busy for the next few weeks, and told her I'd contact her in June. I put it off until the last day, but did finally get back to her. We've picked a date next week. I have plans before and after lunch so that our time will be limited to a late lunch.
I'm very nervous. I don't want to go, but I am certainly going to meet with her. I want to go to show my goodwill toward her because I know it's important to her and she's good people, but am not excited about the prospect of striking up a relationship with her. I'm afraid of picking at figurative scabs just by seeing her.
Do I bring all this up to her, and if so, how? I mean, clearly she knows, given that her email promised "light conversation," but we don't have so much in common, conversation with her makes me nervous because there's no telling when light conversation could turn into a minefield, and there's no guarantee that light conversation next weekend means no explosions in the future. I want to try to go into this with a healthy attitude and come out sane and not stressed. I'm looking for your related experiences, anecdotes, advice, suggestions, reassurances. What do I need to do, not do, etc.?
Thanks, y'all.
Response by poster: There aren't really hot button issues that I know of offhand. Little things can set her off tremendously and irrationally. I think this upcoming lunch will probably be ok; she'll make a special effort since we haven't talked in so long and I'm thinking she won't want to scare me off.
I was thinking that it might be good to address that we have a problem. I'm not excited about the prospect of sweeping it under the rug. If so, it would be nice to have at least a vague idea of solutions in mind. What can I do? What should I expect and not expect from her, myself, this interaction, and future interactions?
YANA*
posted by lover at 2:33 PM on July 3, 2010
I was thinking that it might be good to address that we have a problem. I'm not excited about the prospect of sweeping it under the rug. If so, it would be nice to have at least a vague idea of solutions in mind. What can I do? What should I expect and not expect from her, myself, this interaction, and future interactions?
YANA*
posted by lover at 2:33 PM on July 3, 2010
It is all about the boundaries. Have a mental list of small talky, light and fluffy things to talk about or ask her about and do not deviate off course. Vacations, new couches, haircuts, pets, weather and movies are potentially good subjects. Avoid talking about anything too personal or too deep with her. Do not talk about the past. Do not gossip about your friends or other family members, complain about your work or landlord. Anything that you over-share with her can and will be used against you at a future date or shared inappropriately with anyone. Examples of topics like this include: therapy, your own mental health, money or any personal medical issues or the non-life threatening nature.
Be ready to change the subject if the conversation goes down the rabbit hole to crazy town. Good luck, you are a strong and good person for doing this.
posted by pluckysparrow at 2:54 PM on July 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Be ready to change the subject if the conversation goes down the rabbit hole to crazy town. Good luck, you are a strong and good person for doing this.
posted by pluckysparrow at 2:54 PM on July 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
She's going to be on her best behavior because she's terrified of you - you hold the power here, you're the one who's being wooed back. I don't have any idea whether it's a good idea to talk about your issues or how to go about it, but I really don't think you should start opening up the horrific can of worms that is your total disregard for your mother at the lunch. Just have the lunch. Maybe it'll be ok! It sounds like you already have some good ground rules (no visits at home) and it could be that these occasional neutral-ground visits in public will be a safe way for the two of you to interact.
posted by moxiedoll at 2:55 PM on July 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by moxiedoll at 2:55 PM on July 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: If she says something along the lines of "Thanks for meeting me" or "I didn't know if you'd want to come," you could say something like "Well, sometimes our visits don't go that well, but I know this was important to you, so I wanted to come." So you're putting it out there, then if you keep it light and gently insist that it stays light, you should be okay.
You should expect that both of you will be a little stiff, the conversation will be a little stilted and formal, especially initially. You're mom will be cautious and you will have your guard up. The best outcome will be that you get to the end of the lunch without fireworks. That should be the only goal. Actually, the very best outcome would be that you were willing to meet her for lunch again at some point down the road.
Solutions? To the lunch? Keep it light and in the present. To your relationship with your mom? Sounds like you've got the boundaries figured out. Maybe these lunches will ease the way for her to be in your life more, in a safe way. Good Luck!
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 3:11 PM on July 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
You should expect that both of you will be a little stiff, the conversation will be a little stilted and formal, especially initially. You're mom will be cautious and you will have your guard up. The best outcome will be that you get to the end of the lunch without fireworks. That should be the only goal. Actually, the very best outcome would be that you were willing to meet her for lunch again at some point down the road.
Solutions? To the lunch? Keep it light and in the present. To your relationship with your mom? Sounds like you've got the boundaries figured out. Maybe these lunches will ease the way for her to be in your life more, in a safe way. Good Luck!
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 3:11 PM on July 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
Huh. I'm also 27, moved out at 18, and very much not looking forward to lunch with my mother tomorrow! The other details are different, but suffice to say, seeing her will upset me. The reason I'm going to do it is because 1) she's got an unhappy life, and seeing her and my newborn will make her happy and 2) she's genuinely cognitively unable to understand why some of what she does is wrong. It's not worth arguing about anymore...I just have to eat it, to a certain extent.
On the other hand, I don't maintain this kind of contact with my father (my parents are still married, btw) because I think he's a rotten person and no matter how bad I feel for him sometimes, it's not worth subjecting myself to his crap. So I think you have to decide, based on your personal situation, whether she's capable of making a real change or not. And if not, is it worth it to you to stomach a few crappy interactions a year to make an sad, aging woman a bit happier? Or is it unfair to you to subject yourself to continued abuse? Only you can really decide that, and the intricacies might change over time.
It's not easy, that's for damn sure!
posted by tetralix at 3:22 PM on July 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
On the other hand, I don't maintain this kind of contact with my father (my parents are still married, btw) because I think he's a rotten person and no matter how bad I feel for him sometimes, it's not worth subjecting myself to his crap. So I think you have to decide, based on your personal situation, whether she's capable of making a real change or not. And if not, is it worth it to you to stomach a few crappy interactions a year to make an sad, aging woman a bit happier? Or is it unfair to you to subject yourself to continued abuse? Only you can really decide that, and the intricacies might change over time.
It's not easy, that's for damn sure!
posted by tetralix at 3:22 PM on July 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
If your mother was not abusive to you, and you know she tried her best, and loves you, you are being cruel by cutting her out of your life.
You are under no obligation to be around her when she yells, but that is easily solved by leaving when the yelling starts. She will learn not to yell.
Please realize that in most relationships it takes two to tango. You need to talk to someone completely impartial in detail about this to see if in any way you are bringing any of your own dysfunction to the dynamic. If so, that insight could help the relationship as well.
I am a daughter and I am a mother. I was and am not a perfect daughter, and I was and am not a perfect mother. Yet I maintain and enjoy relationships up and down my familial chain even tho I do not have a perfect mother myself and don't have perfect children.
Look at your mother's life in totality and then treat her the way you would like to be treated.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:20 PM on July 3, 2010
You are under no obligation to be around her when she yells, but that is easily solved by leaving when the yelling starts. She will learn not to yell.
Please realize that in most relationships it takes two to tango. You need to talk to someone completely impartial in detail about this to see if in any way you are bringing any of your own dysfunction to the dynamic. If so, that insight could help the relationship as well.
I am a daughter and I am a mother. I was and am not a perfect daughter, and I was and am not a perfect mother. Yet I maintain and enjoy relationships up and down my familial chain even tho I do not have a perfect mother myself and don't have perfect children.
Look at your mother's life in totality and then treat her the way you would like to be treated.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:20 PM on July 3, 2010
St Alia read the post again.
I've learned that the way she has treated me in the past is emotionally abusive, that I don't like it and don't need it to be a part of my life. .....I started figuring out that I didn't have to be doing anything wrong for her to explode.
And ....I want to go to show my goodwill toward her because I know it's important to her. ....I believe that she wants to have a healthy relationship with me and doesn't know how.
I get the sense that the poster has put some time and effort into working through how this relationship has affected her, and is now trying to find some balance. I don't think she's being cruel. I think she's trying to protect herself from more hurt, while trying not to hurt her mother.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:59 PM on July 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
I've learned that the way she has treated me in the past is emotionally abusive, that I don't like it and don't need it to be a part of my life. .....I started figuring out that I didn't have to be doing anything wrong for her to explode.
And ....I want to go to show my goodwill toward her because I know it's important to her. ....I believe that she wants to have a healthy relationship with me and doesn't know how.
I get the sense that the poster has put some time and effort into working through how this relationship has affected her, and is now trying to find some balance. I don't think she's being cruel. I think she's trying to protect herself from more hurt, while trying not to hurt her mother.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:59 PM on July 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
It sounds like her explosions really bother you, like maybe that that's what you're most afraid of. Could you make a rule that when this happens, the phone call or visit will be over? "Mom, I love you, but I can't be around you when you are shouting at me."
posted by salvia at 6:05 PM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 6:05 PM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Ooh, I get to be the first to recommend The Dance of Intimacy. It's part of the mefi canon for a reason. Seriously, it was written just for this situation.
The best piece of advice I got from this is that it's actually not a good idea to talk about your issues right off the bat and you have to take it slow - with some people having a chatty 3 minute conversation about the weather is a major milestone and it's better to start there.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:33 PM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
The best piece of advice I got from this is that it's actually not a good idea to talk about your issues right off the bat and you have to take it slow - with some people having a chatty 3 minute conversation about the weather is a major milestone and it's better to start there.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:33 PM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My mother was emotionally and verbally abusive. I have tried multiple times to allow her back into my life, on my terms. Every time she gets a foothold, her behavior patterns revert. She thinks she's right, you see, and that I'm just complaining to hear myself complain, so she doesn't need to change.
I got a lot of therapy; I am over "what was." I can cope with the past. I don't need that in the future. I am content not having her in my life. If she wants me back in HER life, that's her problem. If she were willing to change, I'd feel differently. But I'm healthy now, and she is not, and she essentially tries to drag me back to "unhealthy" any time we are in a relationship at all.
If you want to try having a relationship with your mother, and keeping it healthy for you, then I'd suggest laying it on the line. "Mom, this is what you do that makes me refuse to be around you. If you do this, I'm going to walk out and we won't talk again [for X amount of time|ever]." And then *do*. It's her problem now; don't let her make it yours again. Be clear; tell her exactly what you won't tolerate, and then stick to it. Protect yourself, because you're the only one who will.
And hey, therapy's good stuff. A therapist can help you sort through the confused emotions, like what was/wasn't your fault, what you actually owe her (honestly? probably nothing), what is healthy for you to do and how (if) you can have a relationship with an abusive person while protecting your own psyche.
posted by galadriel at 6:40 PM on July 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
I got a lot of therapy; I am over "what was." I can cope with the past. I don't need that in the future. I am content not having her in my life. If she wants me back in HER life, that's her problem. If she were willing to change, I'd feel differently. But I'm healthy now, and she is not, and she essentially tries to drag me back to "unhealthy" any time we are in a relationship at all.
If you want to try having a relationship with your mother, and keeping it healthy for you, then I'd suggest laying it on the line. "Mom, this is what you do that makes me refuse to be around you. If you do this, I'm going to walk out and we won't talk again [for X amount of time|ever]." And then *do*. It's her problem now; don't let her make it yours again. Be clear; tell her exactly what you won't tolerate, and then stick to it. Protect yourself, because you're the only one who will.
And hey, therapy's good stuff. A therapist can help you sort through the confused emotions, like what was/wasn't your fault, what you actually owe her (honestly? probably nothing), what is healthy for you to do and how (if) you can have a relationship with an abusive person while protecting your own psyche.
posted by galadriel at 6:40 PM on July 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
This sounds a bit like my mother, who has borderline personality disorder. Somehow she is very good at hooking people in by being needy and then she turns into a pit bull outraged at them for not being responsible for her. The more you look after her the more she feels you are neglecting her. In my mother's case it is now impossible for me to have any kind of a relationship with her for my own safety and that of her grandkids.
One thing that works a bit with my mother is to be nice and light and distant and not pick up any hints she throws out about wanting help and support. The moment she starts to get angry at you, simply stand up while she is talking and walk out on her. If you can't walk out while she is talking, walk out while you are talking. My mother will not let you leave willingly; she will stall so you have to be very firm with this boundary and get out the moment she starts with something unacceptable.
If your mother is anything like my mother there is no point in discussing her behavior at all. The thing is, her feelings of being abused and neglected are so strong they drown out the reality of the situation. It doesn't matter if she is doing something awful, she honestly feels misused and arguing about it only makes her feel more misused and therefore less able to use logic and see what is going on. Inside her head she is like a terrified abandoned two-year-old and no more able to be rational about her own behavior than the two-year-old would be.
You might consider if your mother is at all like this. Are her demands unreasonable in this way? If so you can save yourself a whole lot of grief by skipping the negotiations and deciding what you will do, and what you won't and not budging.
Another thing that can work is agreeing with her on everything. So if she starts in for example about how horrible you have been to her, simply nod, listen, and if she needs feedback, agree, "You are feeling really terrible about this," and whatever you do, don't argue that it isn't really so horrible, or that she brought it on herself, or anything that will make her feel threatened. Keep going back to her feelings and not the facts.
Going back into an abusive relationship can make you feel as anxious as heretic trying to explain himself to the Inquisition. Is it possible though, that the idea of her being unhappy and lonely is making you feel anxious, because of the emotional abuse? One thing some emotionally abusive people do is make you responsible for their feelings. You learn that if she feels bad there will be an explosion. You can end up being so scared of Mom feeling unappreciated that the idea of her feeling unappreciated actually makes you hugely uneasy. That might be why you want to have that meeting with her now.
You mentioned: "I probably do things that contribute, like not being able to constantly reassure her that she's great." Nobody is able to do anything constantly so obviously you are not able. You need to go to school, look after yourself and so on. Nobody is great constantly either. The best parent has some killer off days.
And needing constant reassurance? Let's say it was President Obama that needed you to constantly reassure him he was great. IM him several times a day, call him up every evening. Long conversations rehashing what he did and why he did it and why he was justified in doing it... That is a bizarre idea. It's actually no more bizarre than the one of you trying to constantly reassure your mother. It's no more an appropriate mother-daughter relationship than it is a politician-constituient relationship. The bottom line is that if someone needs more than a moderate amount of reassurance, you had better give up because it's not going to work.
And one last, hopefully totally irrelevant note... That lunch you are going to have? If there are any alcoholic beverages involved, you might want to watch to see if the amount consumed has any bearing on your mother's explosions.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:56 PM on July 3, 2010 [8 favorites]
One thing that works a bit with my mother is to be nice and light and distant and not pick up any hints she throws out about wanting help and support. The moment she starts to get angry at you, simply stand up while she is talking and walk out on her. If you can't walk out while she is talking, walk out while you are talking. My mother will not let you leave willingly; she will stall so you have to be very firm with this boundary and get out the moment she starts with something unacceptable.
If your mother is anything like my mother there is no point in discussing her behavior at all. The thing is, her feelings of being abused and neglected are so strong they drown out the reality of the situation. It doesn't matter if she is doing something awful, she honestly feels misused and arguing about it only makes her feel more misused and therefore less able to use logic and see what is going on. Inside her head she is like a terrified abandoned two-year-old and no more able to be rational about her own behavior than the two-year-old would be.
You might consider if your mother is at all like this. Are her demands unreasonable in this way? If so you can save yourself a whole lot of grief by skipping the negotiations and deciding what you will do, and what you won't and not budging.
Another thing that can work is agreeing with her on everything. So if she starts in for example about how horrible you have been to her, simply nod, listen, and if she needs feedback, agree, "You are feeling really terrible about this," and whatever you do, don't argue that it isn't really so horrible, or that she brought it on herself, or anything that will make her feel threatened. Keep going back to her feelings and not the facts.
Going back into an abusive relationship can make you feel as anxious as heretic trying to explain himself to the Inquisition. Is it possible though, that the idea of her being unhappy and lonely is making you feel anxious, because of the emotional abuse? One thing some emotionally abusive people do is make you responsible for their feelings. You learn that if she feels bad there will be an explosion. You can end up being so scared of Mom feeling unappreciated that the idea of her feeling unappreciated actually makes you hugely uneasy. That might be why you want to have that meeting with her now.
You mentioned: "I probably do things that contribute, like not being able to constantly reassure her that she's great." Nobody is able to do anything constantly so obviously you are not able. You need to go to school, look after yourself and so on. Nobody is great constantly either. The best parent has some killer off days.
And needing constant reassurance? Let's say it was President Obama that needed you to constantly reassure him he was great. IM him several times a day, call him up every evening. Long conversations rehashing what he did and why he did it and why he was justified in doing it... That is a bizarre idea. It's actually no more bizarre than the one of you trying to constantly reassure your mother. It's no more an appropriate mother-daughter relationship than it is a politician-constituient relationship. The bottom line is that if someone needs more than a moderate amount of reassurance, you had better give up because it's not going to work.
And one last, hopefully totally irrelevant note... That lunch you are going to have? If there are any alcoholic beverages involved, you might want to watch to see if the amount consumed has any bearing on your mother's explosions.
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:56 PM on July 3, 2010 [8 favorites]
If your mother is anything like my mother there is no point in discussing her behavior at all.
Oh, indeed. This would be true for my mother as well. Getting through to her can't be done.
But if I were adamant about having a relationship with her *anyway*... for my own protection, I would express that I have limits and where they are. They won't make an impact on how she acts, certainly.
But at least I'd feel like I have already made whatever explanations are necessary if I choose to stand up and walk away. I wouldn't suddenly be embroiled in an explanation of why I'm leaving *on top of* whatever she's doing that's making me feel like I need to leave. I'd be able to just say, "Okay, that's what I was talking about, I'm done, [see you later|don't call me]."
Because if it were *my* mom, it would happen no matter how careful, how delicate, how light, how eggshell-treading my end of the conversation. Someone who has a pattern of abusive behavior isn't going to change--in her mind, she's justified. So there isn't any way for any amount of careful behavior on my part to change HER.
So at some point, I'd be walking out to protect my own self. It'd be nice if I felt like I had already explained myself, so I didn't need to get into a heated discussion at the time.
posted by galadriel at 9:15 PM on July 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
Oh, indeed. This would be true for my mother as well. Getting through to her can't be done.
But if I were adamant about having a relationship with her *anyway*... for my own protection, I would express that I have limits and where they are. They won't make an impact on how she acts, certainly.
But at least I'd feel like I have already made whatever explanations are necessary if I choose to stand up and walk away. I wouldn't suddenly be embroiled in an explanation of why I'm leaving *on top of* whatever she's doing that's making me feel like I need to leave. I'd be able to just say, "Okay, that's what I was talking about, I'm done, [see you later|don't call me]."
Because if it were *my* mom, it would happen no matter how careful, how delicate, how light, how eggshell-treading my end of the conversation. Someone who has a pattern of abusive behavior isn't going to change--in her mind, she's justified. So there isn't any way for any amount of careful behavior on my part to change HER.
So at some point, I'd be walking out to protect my own self. It'd be nice if I felt like I had already explained myself, so I didn't need to get into a heated discussion at the time.
posted by galadriel at 9:15 PM on July 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
"I probably do things that contribute, like not being able to constantly reassure her that she's great. "
Oh! Toss your poor old mother a bone now and then.
posted by ian1977 at 10:40 PM on July 3, 2010
Oh! Toss your poor old mother a bone now and then.
posted by ian1977 at 10:40 PM on July 3, 2010
Best answer: If your mother was not abusive to you, and you know she tried her best, and loves you, you are being cruel by cutting her out of your life.
False. It is not cruel to enforce healthy boundaries with anyone, abusive or not, parent or not.
You seem to have a compassionate view of the situation: you recognize your mother's behavior as inappropriate, but also see that some of it was learned from her own dysfunctional upbringing, and you also weigh your disinterest in seeing her against the value you know it would have to her. That's really impressive!
St Alia is right that it takes two to tango, though not in the way she meant it: it is not solely up to you to have a relationship with your mom; she has a role in this, too. It might help for you to see your estrangement not in terms of "she blew up at me so I don't want a relationship with her" but instead "she is choosing inappropriate behavior over a relationship with me." Yes, you seem to be the healthier and more mature adult in the situation, but you can't do all if the work in a relationship with your mother. You can't take her emotional manipulation and turn it into something good. You can be patient, compassionate, and generous with second chances (if you choose), but you can't force your mother to behave in a way that makes a relationship possible.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:47 AM on July 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
False. It is not cruel to enforce healthy boundaries with anyone, abusive or not, parent or not.
You seem to have a compassionate view of the situation: you recognize your mother's behavior as inappropriate, but also see that some of it was learned from her own dysfunctional upbringing, and you also weigh your disinterest in seeing her against the value you know it would have to her. That's really impressive!
St Alia is right that it takes two to tango, though not in the way she meant it: it is not solely up to you to have a relationship with your mom; she has a role in this, too. It might help for you to see your estrangement not in terms of "she blew up at me so I don't want a relationship with her" but instead "she is choosing inappropriate behavior over a relationship with me." Yes, you seem to be the healthier and more mature adult in the situation, but you can't do all if the work in a relationship with your mother. You can't take her emotional manipulation and turn it into something good. You can be patient, compassionate, and generous with second chances (if you choose), but you can't force your mother to behave in a way that makes a relationship possible.
posted by Meg_Murry at 6:47 AM on July 4, 2010 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I probably do things that contribute, like not being able to constantly reassure her that she's great.
I disagree that not being able to reassure her that she's great contributes to her blowing up at you. Don't reassure sure her or praise her parenting skills unless it's coming from a place of honesty. If you can't reassure her, don't. Don't placate her; it won't help anything. Although, you said that she's good people. If you feel comfortable saying this (or something similar) to her, then you should.
I think if you go into this lunch with the right attitude, you don't have to be afraid of blowups, and I think you could even prevent them from happening. If you're in a public place, would that decrease the likelihood of her blowing up? Maybe you could try to see her as a person that you're getting to know instead of your mom with whom you have a long and fraught history. Put all the past aside, just for this lunch (what, an hour?). When I think "light conversation" I think: not talking too much about yourself, not talking about any challenges (even minor ones) going on in your life (e.g. job interview next week, finding a new apartment, disagreement with friend) so that she can give advice and get concerned. Keep everything positive. You like your job, you like the place you're living in, you saw a great movie with a friend, things like that, but don't go too in-depth. Talk about movies, weather, news… It's ok if you don't have so much in common, ask her about things that interest her. For example, if she's really into X and you're not, ask her about it anyway. What does she like about it? How does it make her feel? Don't be judgemental of whatever she likes or does; take it as an opportunity to learn more about who she is (and I know you already know tons about her, but try to get a different perspective of her) and just file it in your mind as information. These discussions may lead to her giving you advice on what to do: you can say, "Ok, I'll consider that." You don't have to do what she advises, nor do you have to say you won't do it! If she then says, "Maybe we should do that together sometime" and you don't want to, you can say, "I'd rather not, I'm sorry." Let her down easy, she has feelings too, but at the same time, you don't have to placate her. If she blows up, I like the advice of just getting up and walking away from the table and leaving. Make sure you have cash that you can just put on the table! It sounds like you're worried about having to be on eggshells around her. Replace that image with an expectation that you are two people meeting and talking over lunch, and expect the type of conduct that you would with anyone else. Unless it's a close friend, you wouldn't talk about and dissect the past, right? If you have that expectation, that gives her a chance to meet it. It also gives you a reference point that if she doesn't conduct herself appropriately, you're outta there. Also watch out for any blaming, nasty, critical, complain-y comments or anything that indicates that she thinks of herself as a victim. It means she hasn't or isn't ready to deal with her past, herself, and how she treated you. When those comments come out, just try to change the subject. Don't dismiss or correct those comments. Just make mental note of them as an indication of where she's at, and of course, they don't have anything to do with you.
I bet she's really nervous too, because like you said, she doesn't know how to have a healthy relationship with you so she's also entering uncharted waters. I know you went through a lot as a kid with her, but she's probably been through more and worse if that is how she raised you, because it had to come from somewhere. My hope is that she realizes that you're a beautiful person and can be happy that you're her daughter (and not be spiteful/jealous at how well you're doing).
Don't bring up what you realized in your 1.5 years of reflection, being content to never see her again, your purpose for being there. That is not light conversation, nor is it appropriate for a restaurant setting - maybe more so in a therapist's office, or in one of your homes. If you do want to talk to her honestly about that at some point, you can do that, but for now, this is just lunch. You'll be fine. And I also agree with Meg_Murry.
posted by foxjacket at 12:00 PM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I disagree that not being able to reassure her that she's great contributes to her blowing up at you. Don't reassure sure her or praise her parenting skills unless it's coming from a place of honesty. If you can't reassure her, don't. Don't placate her; it won't help anything. Although, you said that she's good people. If you feel comfortable saying this (or something similar) to her, then you should.
I think if you go into this lunch with the right attitude, you don't have to be afraid of blowups, and I think you could even prevent them from happening. If you're in a public place, would that decrease the likelihood of her blowing up? Maybe you could try to see her as a person that you're getting to know instead of your mom with whom you have a long and fraught history. Put all the past aside, just for this lunch (what, an hour?). When I think "light conversation" I think: not talking too much about yourself, not talking about any challenges (even minor ones) going on in your life (e.g. job interview next week, finding a new apartment, disagreement with friend) so that she can give advice and get concerned. Keep everything positive. You like your job, you like the place you're living in, you saw a great movie with a friend, things like that, but don't go too in-depth. Talk about movies, weather, news… It's ok if you don't have so much in common, ask her about things that interest her. For example, if she's really into X and you're not, ask her about it anyway. What does she like about it? How does it make her feel? Don't be judgemental of whatever she likes or does; take it as an opportunity to learn more about who she is (and I know you already know tons about her, but try to get a different perspective of her) and just file it in your mind as information. These discussions may lead to her giving you advice on what to do: you can say, "Ok, I'll consider that." You don't have to do what she advises, nor do you have to say you won't do it! If she then says, "Maybe we should do that together sometime" and you don't want to, you can say, "I'd rather not, I'm sorry." Let her down easy, she has feelings too, but at the same time, you don't have to placate her. If she blows up, I like the advice of just getting up and walking away from the table and leaving. Make sure you have cash that you can just put on the table! It sounds like you're worried about having to be on eggshells around her. Replace that image with an expectation that you are two people meeting and talking over lunch, and expect the type of conduct that you would with anyone else. Unless it's a close friend, you wouldn't talk about and dissect the past, right? If you have that expectation, that gives her a chance to meet it. It also gives you a reference point that if she doesn't conduct herself appropriately, you're outta there. Also watch out for any blaming, nasty, critical, complain-y comments or anything that indicates that she thinks of herself as a victim. It means she hasn't or isn't ready to deal with her past, herself, and how she treated you. When those comments come out, just try to change the subject. Don't dismiss or correct those comments. Just make mental note of them as an indication of where she's at, and of course, they don't have anything to do with you.
I bet she's really nervous too, because like you said, she doesn't know how to have a healthy relationship with you so she's also entering uncharted waters. I know you went through a lot as a kid with her, but she's probably been through more and worse if that is how she raised you, because it had to come from somewhere. My hope is that she realizes that you're a beautiful person and can be happy that you're her daughter (and not be spiteful/jealous at how well you're doing).
Don't bring up what you realized in your 1.5 years of reflection, being content to never see her again, your purpose for being there. That is not light conversation, nor is it appropriate for a restaurant setting - maybe more so in a therapist's office, or in one of your homes. If you do want to talk to her honestly about that at some point, you can do that, but for now, this is just lunch. You'll be fine. And I also agree with Meg_Murry.
posted by foxjacket at 12:00 PM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
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You're doing a nice thing for your Mom.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 2:22 PM on July 3, 2010 [1 favorite]