Buy Bare-Bones BAR/BRI Books, Become Barrister?
March 1, 2010 6:44 PM Subscribe
I would rather buy a set of 2009 New York BAR/BRI books on eBay than take the course this summer. I know people attempt this -- there is a burgeoning second-hand market for the materials on eBay. Are these people savvy, or are they suckers? Leaving aside the intangible benefits of being with the herd, my question is this: can a well-disciplined 3L pass the New York bar with only the physical BAR/BRI materials and study schedule, sans the taped lectures and bad karma from the lecture hall?
Around the law school that I live near [VLS] there is also a snappy underground trade in these books that doesn't even make it to the eBay level. You may want to check Craigslist or place a WANTED ad yourself to sort of get ahead of the game. The VT Bar is easier than the NY bar, but I know people who did this and managed to do fine.
posted by jessamyn at 6:55 PM on March 1, 2010
posted by jessamyn at 6:55 PM on March 1, 2010
Definitely. I did this without any real problem. In addition to the books, though, I also borrowed the outlines many of my more diligent classmates created while attending the Bar/Bri lectures. I also only really studied hard for two weeks, though I reviewed the materials throughout the summer. I've always been good at memorizing vast amounts of information on short notice, though. That might not work for everyone. But knew a lot of people who did what I did and who passed.
I think the key is actually practicing; practicing the questions, writing out a few essay answers, doing that god awful document oriented question twice or so.
Regarding my statement that I did this "without any real problem", I should be clear that on the morning the results were posted, I was sure that I had failed. Absolutely certain. No confidence whatsoever, which is unusual for me. So I really think my study techniques gave me about a 50/50 chance of passing, and I got lucky. If you want to have 95% confidence, I think you're still fine with just the books, just be more diligent than I was.
If you want copies of the 2006 books, let me know. I still have them sitting around in my office somewhere.
Oh - another key is study tactics on the day of the test. A lot of people seemed annoyed that I studied throughout lunch, but the topics on the essay questions are pretty standard so that if you get three questions dealing with crim law, torts and corporations before lunch, after lunch you can almost be assured of a family law and a trust/wills question. So if you just do massive studying at lunch time and refresh yourself, it can make a huge difference. It did for me.
posted by slide at 6:57 PM on March 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think the key is actually practicing; practicing the questions, writing out a few essay answers, doing that god awful document oriented question twice or so.
Regarding my statement that I did this "without any real problem", I should be clear that on the morning the results were posted, I was sure that I had failed. Absolutely certain. No confidence whatsoever, which is unusual for me. So I really think my study techniques gave me about a 50/50 chance of passing, and I got lucky. If you want to have 95% confidence, I think you're still fine with just the books, just be more diligent than I was.
If you want copies of the 2006 books, let me know. I still have them sitting around in my office somewhere.
Oh - another key is study tactics on the day of the test. A lot of people seemed annoyed that I studied throughout lunch, but the topics on the essay questions are pretty standard so that if you get three questions dealing with crim law, torts and corporations before lunch, after lunch you can almost be assured of a family law and a trust/wills question. So if you just do massive studying at lunch time and refresh yourself, it can make a huge difference. It did for me.
posted by slide at 6:57 PM on March 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I just took the NY Bar on February 23rd and 24th. Email me (address is on my profile) if you want some helpful outlines or want to discuss the Bar Exam.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 7:07 PM on March 1, 2010
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 7:07 PM on March 1, 2010
Sorry, let me add that for this exam, I did *very* little in the way of studying. I read the outlines, did a few MBE questions, then went and took it. My job doesn't hinge on passing (I'm a Jersey attorney, have been for almost seven years and have my own office) and I was taking it more for the... um... more as a lark than anything else. I found the exam dead simple. Of course... finding it easy doesn't mean I passed it, but we'll see in May.
Can you pass the exam by just using the books and MBE practice tests? Absolutely. Be diligent about studying and actually do as many MBE practice questions as you can get your hands on. Practice some essays and each type of MPT essay.
The first time I took the Bar (I did Jersey and Pennsy in one three-day shot), all I used was MicroMash's MBE practice questions. I passed both states' exams.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 7:15 PM on March 1, 2010
Can you pass the exam by just using the books and MBE practice tests? Absolutely. Be diligent about studying and actually do as many MBE practice questions as you can get your hands on. Practice some essays and each type of MPT essay.
The first time I took the Bar (I did Jersey and Pennsy in one three-day shot), all I used was MicroMash's MBE practice questions. I passed both states' exams.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 7:15 PM on March 1, 2010
> I think the key is actually practicing; practicing the questions, writing out a few essay answers, doing that god awful document oriented question twice or so.
Quoted for truth. I hesitate to recommend this approach as different people have such different definitions of "self study," from casual reading for an hour a day to serious, morning-to-evening drills.
While the lectures offer almost nothing content-wise, they get you thinking about the bar exam for 4+ hours a day (and they're typically scheduled in the morning and early afternoon when you're actually thinking, and not exhausted from your summer job or surfing or whatever). If you can honestly do this yourself, at least 5 days a week, then go for it. And do many, many practice questions, both MBE and essays.
posted by rkent at 7:18 PM on March 1, 2010
Quoted for truth. I hesitate to recommend this approach as different people have such different definitions of "self study," from casual reading for an hour a day to serious, morning-to-evening drills.
While the lectures offer almost nothing content-wise, they get you thinking about the bar exam for 4+ hours a day (and they're typically scheduled in the morning and early afternoon when you're actually thinking, and not exhausted from your summer job or surfing or whatever). If you can honestly do this yourself, at least 5 days a week, then go for it. And do many, many practice questions, both MBE and essays.
posted by rkent at 7:18 PM on March 1, 2010
I did something similar recently for the CA bar (had access to the Barbri books, but didn't attend the lectures, and then put nose to grindstone for a short time right before the bar exam dates), and managed to pass, despite not being a particularly diligent or accomplished student during law school itself.
I found mastering the essay style more difficult than the MBE questions - there are many outlines available with the essential points in each MBE topic area highlighted, reviewing those plus doing sample questions got me up to speed pretty well for the MBE. For the essays I had to work much harder, to fit my writing style to the specific format the graders were looking for, and especially at limiting the time I spend on each individual essay so that I actually got through them all.
So, in my experience, what you are suggesting is feasible, particularly if you can trust yourself to reasonably diligent in the time before the exam date.
posted by that possible maker of pork sausages at 7:53 PM on March 1, 2010
I found mastering the essay style more difficult than the MBE questions - there are many outlines available with the essential points in each MBE topic area highlighted, reviewing those plus doing sample questions got me up to speed pretty well for the MBE. For the essays I had to work much harder, to fit my writing style to the specific format the graders were looking for, and especially at limiting the time I spend on each individual essay so that I actually got through them all.
So, in my experience, what you are suggesting is feasible, particularly if you can trust yourself to reasonably diligent in the time before the exam date.
posted by that possible maker of pork sausages at 7:53 PM on March 1, 2010
It will depend on a few factors. How good you are at taking standardized tests, how well you memorize information, how disciplined you are, how you're able to retain written information as compared to what you hear. Assuming a few of these factors cut in your favor, it's perfectly doable. I shelled out for the whole course because I didn't want to have to take the Bar a 2nd time, but in hindsight I think I could have saved the cash by buying up a set of books instead.
posted by craven_morhead at 7:58 PM on March 1, 2010
posted by craven_morhead at 7:58 PM on March 1, 2010
It's doable. I've had some friends do it in NY and I've done it for CA. You really need to stay on top of everything. Make sure you get a copy of the paced program along with the books so you can follow the same general time line as everyone else.
I took the course for IL, but just bought the books and self studied for CA. The course make things easier, but the books were just fine.
posted by Arbac at 8:19 PM on March 1, 2010
I took the course for IL, but just bought the books and self studied for CA. The course make things easier, but the books were just fine.
posted by Arbac at 8:19 PM on March 1, 2010
Perfectly do-able. Most people who fail the NY Bar do so because they didn't study hardly at all or are the kind of people whose possession of a U.S. law degree is unlikely to begin with (lack of proficiency in English, crippling test anxiety, or just not very bright).
posted by MattD at 8:25 PM on March 1, 2010
posted by MattD at 8:25 PM on March 1, 2010
You probably can do it, but is it really worth risking? I'd rather pay thousands of dollars for a BAR/BRI course than risk taking the bar exam twice.
posted by useyourmachinegunarm at 5:55 AM on March 2, 2010
posted by useyourmachinegunarm at 5:55 AM on March 2, 2010
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If you do decide to go with second hand materials, make sure you get books from someone with legible handwriting. The state lecture handouts are fill-in-the-blank style, and if the original owner was either lax in filling in the blanks or has illegible handwriting then you'll be missing out on one of the more useful books in the set.
posted by jedicus at 6:52 PM on March 1, 2010