Which New York state bar review course should I take?
July 16, 2009 6:40 PM Subscribe
I would like advice on preparing for the New York bar exam. Realistically I'd write it July of next year. I definitely need a review course - I finished law school two years ago and that was Canadian law. I'm working (though a reasonable and flexible schedule) so I'd like a review that's somehow part time, or aimed for working people. I'm living in Brooklyn and working in Manhattan.
In Montreal the only course they offered was BarBri and that's all I'd heard of. Googling I also see Pieper and Kaplan. I found a weekends course through Pieper but had more difficulty with the Kaplan and BarBri sites.
My job is only 32 hours a week and quite flexible - might it work to do a full-time 6 week course while working 32 hours a week?
Is Pieper good? Is something else better? Is something best? I'd really love to hear any suggestions or experiences.
I know myself that I need structured instruction and deadlines, so even though I know that some people have studied successfully on their own, it's not for me. I'm almost positive I'd do better with a live course and not recorded.
Thank you!
In Montreal the only course they offered was BarBri and that's all I'd heard of. Googling I also see Pieper and Kaplan. I found a weekends course through Pieper but had more difficulty with the Kaplan and BarBri sites.
My job is only 32 hours a week and quite flexible - might it work to do a full-time 6 week course while working 32 hours a week?
Is Pieper good? Is something else better? Is something best? I'd really love to hear any suggestions or experiences.
I know myself that I need structured instruction and deadlines, so even though I know that some people have studied successfully on their own, it's not for me. I'm almost positive I'd do better with a live course and not recorded.
Thank you!
oh and barbri graded my essays which I submitted by email. Also, very convenient.
posted by bananafish at 7:17 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by bananafish at 7:17 PM on July 16, 2009
Best answer: As far as I'm concerned, BarBri is the way to go, hands down. Not only is the course very well designed and quite up to date (some say PMBR, for example, does not represent the current mix of questions on the multistate), there is really something to be said for being with the herd. No joke--if BarBri happens to get a question wrong and tells all of its students that 2+2=5, chances are the results to that question will be recomputed so that both 4 and 5 are treated as correct answers. In fact, when I took the NY bar, BarBri actually made an announcement that, if you ever are without any clue what the answer is on the multistate, always pick C--specifically intending to skew the curve so that C is treated as a right answer.
There is only one live session per year, and it's either taped at Town Hall or at BarBri's NY office (right down the street from Town Hall). It's first thing in the morning, and it starts earlier than the videotaped classes. You will probably be happy with the in-person recorded sessions--they take attendance (you can take only so many make up classes, so they require you to show up). There are some classes at Brooklyn Law, which might be more convenient than coming into Manhattan. There is also a version you can rent on an iPod--I just took the MA bar using the iPod, and it was not too terribly difficult to force myself to listen to the recordings (though I definitely felt that I missed the camaraderie of seeing people every day who were also studying for the bar).
As for how much time you need, that depends on how fast you learn and how you deal with stress. Many/most of the other applicants writing the July bar are newly minted law school graduates with nothing to do but study all the time for 6-7 weeks (whether they actually study all the time is another question, but they don't have other obligations). As I said, I just took the MA bar after moving up to Boston and ended up studying all the time for about a month--I have a high tolerance for studying and a low tolerance for me being fired from work. A couple of my colleagues studied less than I did and passed (one studied for just one week before the exam, but was sweating bullets until the results came out). A lot of people have had less time than you will--it's just what you make of the time you have.
Good luck!
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:18 PM on July 16, 2009
There is only one live session per year, and it's either taped at Town Hall or at BarBri's NY office (right down the street from Town Hall). It's first thing in the morning, and it starts earlier than the videotaped classes. You will probably be happy with the in-person recorded sessions--they take attendance (you can take only so many make up classes, so they require you to show up). There are some classes at Brooklyn Law, which might be more convenient than coming into Manhattan. There is also a version you can rent on an iPod--I just took the MA bar using the iPod, and it was not too terribly difficult to force myself to listen to the recordings (though I definitely felt that I missed the camaraderie of seeing people every day who were also studying for the bar).
As for how much time you need, that depends on how fast you learn and how you deal with stress. Many/most of the other applicants writing the July bar are newly minted law school graduates with nothing to do but study all the time for 6-7 weeks (whether they actually study all the time is another question, but they don't have other obligations). As I said, I just took the MA bar after moving up to Boston and ended up studying all the time for about a month--I have a high tolerance for studying and a low tolerance for me being fired from work. A couple of my colleagues studied less than I did and passed (one studied for just one week before the exam, but was sweating bullets until the results came out). A lot of people have had less time than you will--it's just what you make of the time you have.
Good luck!
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:18 PM on July 16, 2009
MicroMash is terrific. I've done both BarBri and Micromash, and MicroMash is far better.
posted by jayder at 8:19 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by jayder at 8:19 PM on July 16, 2009
I did Celebration Bar Review and passed. The website looks awful, but the instruction was great.
Also, there is a mentoring program that would give you the deadlines and structured instruction, but would also give you flexibility with the iPod option. Plus, it's a lot cheaper than some of the other companies.
posted by mcroft at 6:42 AM on July 17, 2009
Also, there is a mentoring program that would give you the deadlines and structured instruction, but would also give you flexibility with the iPod option. Plus, it's a lot cheaper than some of the other companies.
posted by mcroft at 6:42 AM on July 17, 2009
I took BarBri for Florida in 1995 and then again for Virginia in 2000. I passed both and recommend BarBri as one excellent option.
But here's what I really recommend - if you can swing it, make bar study your 9-to-5 job for those several weeks, and don't forget to have a life outside of that. Your mental state is one of the most important factors in taking the bar, and taking it seriously but not TOO seriously - as in, panic attack seriously - will put you in the sweet spot for preparation purposes.
I'm pretty sure BarBri offers evening classes in NYC for people who are working part-time, if that's what you really need.
posted by mikewas at 7:08 AM on July 17, 2009
But here's what I really recommend - if you can swing it, make bar study your 9-to-5 job for those several weeks, and don't forget to have a life outside of that. Your mental state is one of the most important factors in taking the bar, and taking it seriously but not TOO seriously - as in, panic attack seriously - will put you in the sweet spot for preparation purposes.
I'm pretty sure BarBri offers evening classes in NYC for people who are working part-time, if that's what you really need.
posted by mikewas at 7:08 AM on July 17, 2009
Response by poster: Admiral Haddock, I really appreciated your long and substantial answer. It's especially good to hear that there will be other people working and studying, even though I take mikewas' answer very seriously that it is probably not the ideal. Overall though I think that my mental state will be more balanced if I can still count on an income...
jaydar, if you wouldn't mind elaborating on what you preferred about MicroMash, that would be great.
mcroft, I checked out their website - what do they mean when they say they approach the bar from a Christian perspective?
Thank you all!
posted by Salamandrous at 9:08 PM on July 17, 2009
jaydar, if you wouldn't mind elaborating on what you preferred about MicroMash, that would be great.
mcroft, I checked out their website - what do they mean when they say they approach the bar from a Christian perspective?
Thank you all!
posted by Salamandrous at 9:08 PM on July 17, 2009
Best answer: Salamandrous --
The BarBri teaching/learning process is fairly passive. You show up, listen to lectures for the whole morning, then go home to study your books. The lectures (at least when I took it) were often accompanied by printed lecture notes, with blanks where you were expected to fill in key concepts (I suppose that was to keep you engaged, rather than just listening). There was little thought given to the essay part of the bar exam.
MicroMash has a really sophisticated system of computer drilling. When you sign up, you receive massive review books with lengthy, detailed outlines, as well as a shorter, condensed outline. These books are not the core of the MicroMash program, however, the computer-drilling self-study program is. There are no lectures. You do thousands of multiple-choice questions (MBE format) and you learn the black letter law that way. You have a mentor who grades and advises you on your essay questions, which you have to turn in every week. One thing I like about MicroMash is their "pay only if you pass" guarantee. As long as you complete their study program, you will pay for the program only if you pass the bar exam. I know several people who took the California Bar Exam with MicroMash --- they all completed the study program, and they all passed it on the first try.
posted by jayder at 9:36 AM on July 19, 2009
The BarBri teaching/learning process is fairly passive. You show up, listen to lectures for the whole morning, then go home to study your books. The lectures (at least when I took it) were often accompanied by printed lecture notes, with blanks where you were expected to fill in key concepts (I suppose that was to keep you engaged, rather than just listening). There was little thought given to the essay part of the bar exam.
MicroMash has a really sophisticated system of computer drilling. When you sign up, you receive massive review books with lengthy, detailed outlines, as well as a shorter, condensed outline. These books are not the core of the MicroMash program, however, the computer-drilling self-study program is. There are no lectures. You do thousands of multiple-choice questions (MBE format) and you learn the black letter law that way. You have a mentor who grades and advises you on your essay questions, which you have to turn in every week. One thing I like about MicroMash is their "pay only if you pass" guarantee. As long as you complete their study program, you will pay for the program only if you pass the bar exam. I know several people who took the California Bar Exam with MicroMash --- they all completed the study program, and they all passed it on the first try.
posted by jayder at 9:36 AM on July 19, 2009
Sorry this is a late response.
In regards to the Christian perspective of Celebration Bar Review, it basically means that in some reminder emails the instructor might make statements like "I will pray for you" or "Peace." It doesn't affect the actual instruction.
I'm not religious and I didn't find any of the emails offensive/preachy/etc.
posted by mcroft at 11:00 AM on July 26, 2009
In regards to the Christian perspective of Celebration Bar Review, it basically means that in some reminder emails the instructor might make statements like "I will pray for you" or "Peace." It doesn't affect the actual instruction.
I'm not religious and I didn't find any of the emails offensive/preachy/etc.
posted by mcroft at 11:00 AM on July 26, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks jayder! Though you've basically cast me back to indecision. That program sounds pretty great, and probably more compatible with working.
I really appreciate the advice from everybody, thank you again!
posted by Salamandrous at 11:22 AM on July 30, 2009
I really appreciate the advice from everybody, thank you again!
posted by Salamandrous at 11:22 AM on July 30, 2009
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posted by bananafish at 7:16 PM on July 16, 2009