help me not be a jerk
September 8, 2009 7:49 PM
How can I not sound like a jerk?
You all helped me before, maybe you can help me again. How can I not sound like a jerk at my college's department chair meetings?
Here is an example: Our campus is investing 2 million dollars in a notebook/netbook program for students. Someone said that netbooks could do anything a regular computer can do. I made some comments that this was not true, especially for students in more advanced types of engineering courses, graphics, music, etc. This is something I have researched and know a lot about. People eventually actually agreed with me, but I felt that I came off jerky. I rarely feel the need to make points unless I feel there will be long-term problems.
Normally I try not to "show up" people and say when they are wrong. People generally do not like this. I am a middle-aged woman and people have these odd preconceptions about how I should act, kind of maternal and differential (which is cultural to the area I work and live), which I am not.
So, how on the occasion that I feel something needs to be corrected can I do so and not feel like a jerk or come off like a jerk? I deal with people who have a real need to feel that they are right all the time, i.e., college professors.
You all helped me before, maybe you can help me again. How can I not sound like a jerk at my college's department chair meetings?
Here is an example: Our campus is investing 2 million dollars in a notebook/netbook program for students. Someone said that netbooks could do anything a regular computer can do. I made some comments that this was not true, especially for students in more advanced types of engineering courses, graphics, music, etc. This is something I have researched and know a lot about. People eventually actually agreed with me, but I felt that I came off jerky. I rarely feel the need to make points unless I feel there will be long-term problems.
Normally I try not to "show up" people and say when they are wrong. People generally do not like this. I am a middle-aged woman and people have these odd preconceptions about how I should act, kind of maternal and differential (which is cultural to the area I work and live), which I am not.
So, how on the occasion that I feel something needs to be corrected can I do so and not feel like a jerk or come off like a jerk? I deal with people who have a real need to feel that they are right all the time, i.e., college professors.
I am a middle-aged woman and people have these odd preconceptions about how I should act, kind of maternal and differential.
Iowa?
Seriously, if you're dealing with dinosaurs, you might as well use their silliness to disarm them. Adopt a kind, maternal tone when explaining things, recognizing two or three times how "I really like your idea about the THING, but I'm a teeny bit concerned about the DETAIL...."
Spend a whole lot of time explaining the parts of something that you do agree with, the parts that are correct, the parts that you really must thank the other person for bringing up, the terrific observations they made and how great it is they see a need. Then add your teeny, tiny little adjustment at the end. A minor thing maybe, just a small detail, oh it's almost nothing to worry about, but you know netbooks aren't quite enough for some courses in some of our disciplines, like music and engineering.
I deal with people who have a real need to feel that they are right all the time, i.e., college professors.
Ah yes. Study how they talk to people closely. Note their tone, and the way they don't even pause before correcting others, even on points that aren't important.
Then don't do that.
posted by rokusan at 7:56 PM on September 8, 2009
Iowa?
Seriously, if you're dealing with dinosaurs, you might as well use their silliness to disarm them. Adopt a kind, maternal tone when explaining things, recognizing two or three times how "I really like your idea about the THING, but I'm a teeny bit concerned about the DETAIL...."
Spend a whole lot of time explaining the parts of something that you do agree with, the parts that are correct, the parts that you really must thank the other person for bringing up, the terrific observations they made and how great it is they see a need. Then add your teeny, tiny little adjustment at the end. A minor thing maybe, just a small detail, oh it's almost nothing to worry about, but you know netbooks aren't quite enough for some courses in some of our disciplines, like music and engineering.
I deal with people who have a real need to feel that they are right all the time, i.e., college professors.
Ah yes. Study how they talk to people closely. Note their tone, and the way they don't even pause before correcting others, even on points that aren't important.
Then don't do that.
posted by rokusan at 7:56 PM on September 8, 2009
One method is to ask a question instead of making a statement. It gives others the opportunity to agree with your or change their minds, and also demonstrates that you are open to discussion.
In the example you gave, could you say something like, "Well yes, netbooks will work great for x, y, and z, but will they accommodate students who need to a, b, and c?" Because you are just trying to get a question answered, if you don't get satisfactory answers, you still have some room to navigate the conversation and get your concerns addressed before you seem too pushy.
posted by juliplease at 8:01 PM on September 8, 2009
In the example you gave, could you say something like, "Well yes, netbooks will work great for x, y, and z, but will they accommodate students who need to a, b, and c?" Because you are just trying to get a question answered, if you don't get satisfactory answers, you still have some room to navigate the conversation and get your concerns addressed before you seem too pushy.
posted by juliplease at 8:01 PM on September 8, 2009
Well, lore has a good point.
But, as you say, some people, especially in academia, will insist they are right when they are provably wrong. At that point you need to choose which you value more- winning an argument or not causing a conflict. And there's not an easy, right answer to that. When you do correct them, they *are* probably going to try to make you feel bad: that is a rhetorical strategy some employ in lieu of being intellectually honest. You just need to tell yourself it's them, not you. As long as you're not actively calling names or doing a victory dance, you're not being a jerk.
Another thing I learned at work is the concept of "let them feel the pain." Which is to say, let them buy the Netbook and have the engineer try to run his software that needs four cores and 8gb of memory on it. Let them see the result, then re-open the discussion. (Might not be advisable in a situation where so much money is at stake, but you see the general principal?)
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:05 PM on September 8, 2009
But, as you say, some people, especially in academia, will insist they are right when they are provably wrong. At that point you need to choose which you value more- winning an argument or not causing a conflict. And there's not an easy, right answer to that. When you do correct them, they *are* probably going to try to make you feel bad: that is a rhetorical strategy some employ in lieu of being intellectually honest. You just need to tell yourself it's them, not you. As long as you're not actively calling names or doing a victory dance, you're not being a jerk.
Another thing I learned at work is the concept of "let them feel the pain." Which is to say, let them buy the Netbook and have the engineer try to run his software that needs four cores and 8gb of memory on it. Let them see the result, then re-open the discussion. (Might not be advisable in a situation where so much money is at stake, but you see the general principal?)
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:05 PM on September 8, 2009
Picture yourself as direct and friendly before you go into the meeting, and repeat that to yourself during the meeting if you need to. I would not soften your message - women tend to get too caught up in worrying about offending people. So caught up in it that we dilute the message. It is okay to be straightforward. Just bring it up factually:
GOOD
Prof X: Netbooks will do everything all our students need.
You: There are a significant number of students that need to use CAD, Facebook, and Metafilter all at the same time. Netbooks won't work for them.
NOT GOOD:
Prof X: Netbooks will do everything all our students need.
You: How can someone with so many years of education be so ignorant?
You get the picture. I know it's hard to stay detached when someone is spreading incorrect information about a subject you've put a lot of time into, but the "direct and friendly" mantra will help keep you calm but focused.
posted by txvtchick at 8:18 PM on September 8, 2009
GOOD
Prof X: Netbooks will do everything all our students need.
You: There are a significant number of students that need to use CAD, Facebook, and Metafilter all at the same time. Netbooks won't work for them.
NOT GOOD:
Prof X: Netbooks will do everything all our students need.
You: How can someone with so many years of education be so ignorant?
You get the picture. I know it's hard to stay detached when someone is spreading incorrect information about a subject you've put a lot of time into, but the "direct and friendly" mantra will help keep you calm but focused.
posted by txvtchick at 8:18 PM on September 8, 2009
If you are right - then be right. You may feel like a jerk, either from upbringing, or from others in your group who want to put that on you - but either way, if you're right, you're right. I was raised not to make waves, and sometimes it takes a lot of work to get out of your comfort zone and make the unpopular point - just remember that you are far more cognizant of these things than anyone else - they're only thinking of how they look. The best way to stop looking like a jerk is to stop caring about what you look like.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:21 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:21 PM on September 8, 2009
Please, make your points freely, and don't aim for maternal-ness. I share your demographic, and we will never be taken seriously until we use firm declarative sentences as a matter of course. I detest the weak, head-tilty, upward-inflection statement-posed-as-a-question reticence that's (still!) expected of us.
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:29 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:29 PM on September 8, 2009
If you have actual data or information or anything you can print out, by all means, bring it to these situations. If you're reacting to ideas as they arise, that's out — but if you have a good grasp of the situation with facts you can back up at some later point, by all means, lay them out. You can do this deferentially, or as sort of a casual "oh by the way I noted these issues," or matter-of-factly.
However, there arise things for which you cannot plan and to which you have little but a gut reaction to go upon — patterns of interaction between technology and politics you recognize, bad experiences with certain types of vendors, razzle-dazzle by "sales engineers" who are powered more by optimism than technical ability. These are the fighty bits, where you're really working off of experience and your interpretation of it, that is, the dreaded opinion. When opinions clash, you get contentiousness. Generally, I try to allow myself some Contentiousness Points, pre-allocated before whatever meeting it is. This is the number of times I will bother to speak up and make corrections at the meeting. I will remove some on the fly if things are not going well (I screw up, someone is in a terrible mood, etc.) I will rarely grant myself extras if there is something more important at stake.
Once you have decided you have a fixed number of points, the rationing system will practically invent itself.
If there is a decision which will be made that is not going well, and I believe it will involve Consequences Later On, I usually utter some variant of, "I foresee the following problems: x, y, and z." "Just so long as everyone knows where I stand on this" and my favorite bombshell "Should this not work out as planned, who will be taking responsibility for fixing it?"
At some point, you have to know, inside, that you can let other people be "right" (however wrong they are), and that while it is very sad, these consequences, they were completely beyond your control. Later on, people may forget and turn to you in a panic for solutions, at which point you can gently say, "Remember, we talked about that?" It's okay to feel that, gosh, that sucks it turned out that way; detach yourself from attempts from others who might make you wish to feel guilty.
As you develop a track record for speaking up when you see an issue, and only when an issue arises, eventually the perceptive will use you as a leading indicator. However, if you're completely surrounded by the stubborn and misguided, you'll develop a nice Cassandra Complex out of it and go mad.
posted by adipocere at 8:31 PM on September 8, 2009
However, there arise things for which you cannot plan and to which you have little but a gut reaction to go upon — patterns of interaction between technology and politics you recognize, bad experiences with certain types of vendors, razzle-dazzle by "sales engineers" who are powered more by optimism than technical ability. These are the fighty bits, where you're really working off of experience and your interpretation of it, that is, the dreaded opinion. When opinions clash, you get contentiousness. Generally, I try to allow myself some Contentiousness Points, pre-allocated before whatever meeting it is. This is the number of times I will bother to speak up and make corrections at the meeting. I will remove some on the fly if things are not going well (I screw up, someone is in a terrible mood, etc.) I will rarely grant myself extras if there is something more important at stake.
Once you have decided you have a fixed number of points, the rationing system will practically invent itself.
If there is a decision which will be made that is not going well, and I believe it will involve Consequences Later On, I usually utter some variant of, "I foresee the following problems: x, y, and z." "Just so long as everyone knows where I stand on this" and my favorite bombshell "Should this not work out as planned, who will be taking responsibility for fixing it?"
At some point, you have to know, inside, that you can let other people be "right" (however wrong they are), and that while it is very sad, these consequences, they were completely beyond your control. Later on, people may forget and turn to you in a panic for solutions, at which point you can gently say, "Remember, we talked about that?" It's okay to feel that, gosh, that sucks it turned out that way; detach yourself from attempts from others who might make you wish to feel guilty.
As you develop a track record for speaking up when you see an issue, and only when an issue arises, eventually the perceptive will use you as a leading indicator. However, if you're completely surrounded by the stubborn and misguided, you'll develop a nice Cassandra Complex out of it and go mad.
posted by adipocere at 8:31 PM on September 8, 2009
I am a middle-aged woman and people have these odd preconceptions about how I should act, kind of maternal and differential.
Iowa?
Oh, c'mon, wtf. Iowa = put Obama in the primaries, legal gay marriage, highest national per capita of phds in Iowa City—criminy guy get off the Midwest stereotype.
Just say, "Hey, but wait, netbooks have no video memory, they can't run graphically demanding programs." Say it calmly but firmly. Some people will think you're a jerk, but if you're right often enough, the people who matter won't.
posted by bricoleur at 8:34 PM on September 8, 2009
Iowa?
Oh, c'mon, wtf. Iowa = put Obama in the primaries, legal gay marriage, highest national per capita of phds in Iowa City—criminy guy get off the Midwest stereotype.
Just say, "Hey, but wait, netbooks have no video memory, they can't run graphically demanding programs." Say it calmly but firmly. Some people will think you're a jerk, but if you're right often enough, the people who matter won't.
posted by bricoleur at 8:34 PM on September 8, 2009
People get defensive when the first thing out of your mouth is disagreeing with them - I agree with the general from the above posters about first acknowledging the basic validity of their point. Then point out there are exceptions to it, like for the autocad students or whoever.
Then I'd point out issues that every university and company has with supporting underpowered computers, the hundreds of person hours that will go towards troubleshooting and supporting hardware that isn't up to the task it's doing. Those person hours = money, which is what they are trying to save by buying the netbooks instead of something beefier. Offer to compile stats about this, with the help of the IT department.
So basically, yes them for a sec, add your data, and summarize how the combination of those two opinions benefits everyone.
Yeah, I know, easier said than done off the top of your head in a meeting with tenured faculty in a new job.
Re: the gender thing - if you don't fit into their idea of what you should be, please don't try and change your personality. Second guessing every single thing that comes out of your mouth is completely exhausting.
posted by 8dot3 at 9:07 PM on September 8, 2009
Then I'd point out issues that every university and company has with supporting underpowered computers, the hundreds of person hours that will go towards troubleshooting and supporting hardware that isn't up to the task it's doing. Those person hours = money, which is what they are trying to save by buying the netbooks instead of something beefier. Offer to compile stats about this, with the help of the IT department.
So basically, yes them for a sec, add your data, and summarize how the combination of those two opinions benefits everyone.
Yeah, I know, easier said than done off the top of your head in a meeting with tenured faculty in a new job.
Re: the gender thing - if you don't fit into their idea of what you should be, please don't try and change your personality. Second guessing every single thing that comes out of your mouth is completely exhausting.
posted by 8dot3 at 9:07 PM on September 8, 2009
State your credential first, as a warning shot. "I have extensive experience with this very question, and I can tell you for a fact that..."
That warns profs used to having B.S. time, that this would not be the time to say anything that could end up being embarrasing in a few minutes. People who have not already said something they don't want to take back are easier to convince than ones who have, sadly.
Then there's always the excessively blunt eccentric old lady character, which is fun.
posted by ctmf at 9:16 PM on September 8, 2009
That warns profs used to having B.S. time, that this would not be the time to say anything that could end up being embarrasing in a few minutes. People who have not already said something they don't want to take back are easier to convince than ones who have, sadly.
Then there's always the excessively blunt eccentric old lady character, which is fun.
posted by ctmf at 9:16 PM on September 8, 2009
Dialog enhances the quality of an academic environment, so think of your comment as raising the value of the discussion. And keep this useful quote in mind "Argue for your limitations, and they will surely become yours". Can't remember the source. As long as your reply is accurate, measured and articulate, that's your best contribution.
posted by effluvia at 9:20 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by effluvia at 9:20 PM on September 8, 2009
I too share your demographic, and the danger in speaking the way people expect us to is that they won't listen. There's a big difference between being direct and being a jerk. Say what you need to say.
posted by zinfandel at 9:20 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by zinfandel at 9:20 PM on September 8, 2009
Lore's advice is good, but basically, with a question that is as clearcut as this, you just have to stick to the facts. "There are benefits to this idea, but these computers won't do x, y, z. Period." Remember there are the silent ones at the meeting, who are waiting for your comment because they know the others are full of it. You may even have a reputation you're not aware of ("the meeting would have been a total wash, with Jim yammering on, but thank goodness Mary was there.").
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:43 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:43 PM on September 8, 2009
Lore's advice is spot on. You need to present your disagreement as an agreement. Find the good part you do agree with and call that out before you make your point. This is the main point made in "How to make friends and influence people" as well as many subsequent business books. I hate it, but it really works. It shows you are listening, respect the other person, aren't full of yourself, etc.
posted by xammerboy at 10:41 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by xammerboy at 10:41 PM on September 8, 2009
Forgive me, but you come across as having to be somewhat "right" yourself!..but I certainly understand that you need to get the information that you KNOW to be true into the meeting without apology.
View the discussion as an opportunity for persuasion. Consider your position as "negotiation". Always look for the common ground to make your points:
ie:
"Are we all in agreement that some of the students will be using (fill in the blank) software?
As such, are we all in agreement that notebooks don't perform the same for those students?"
Re-frame your ideas as dialog and exchange instead of orders and commands.
If people feel their ideas are respected you'll come across as a "statesman" even though you are a woman.
posted by naplesyellow at 11:35 PM on September 8, 2009
View the discussion as an opportunity for persuasion. Consider your position as "negotiation". Always look for the common ground to make your points:
ie:
"Are we all in agreement that some of the students will be using (fill in the blank) software?
As such, are we all in agreement that notebooks don't perform the same for those students?"
Re-frame your ideas as dialog and exchange instead of orders and commands.
If people feel their ideas are respected you'll come across as a "statesman" even though you are a woman.
posted by naplesyellow at 11:35 PM on September 8, 2009
I think Lore's advice is good in a lot of interpersonal situations... but in this instance, maybe not so much. Aside from notions about how we should act, women also often have the problem of not being heard... or people hearing only what they want or expect to hear. If you bury the vital points of your argument between soothing agree-points, you run a strong risk of people hearing something like Oh, absolutely, netbooks are great ... I think netbooks will be great for many, many students.
Be pleasant but clear and straightforward, and take some pains to attack the problem, not the person. Don't say "you're wrong" or "you don't understand" or "that's a bad idea because XYZ" (your idea is bad!); instead say something like (in this case), "If we went with netbooks, how would we address the problem of advanced types of engineering courses, graphics, music, etc., that require more computing power than a netbook can provide?"
As you describe the conversation, your only real problem in there was this part: I made some comments that this was not true. You don't need to say it's "not true"; that's essentially the same as saying either "you're wrong," or "you're lying." Once you bring up the factual information that is at the heart of the problem, it becomes obvious that the incorrect statement is incorrect, but you haven't made a personal attack, and it also allows the person whose information you are challenging a bit of space to modify their point - as opposed to bristling at being pronounced wrong/ignorant.
Basically, within reason, you want to handle it in a way that you would appreciate if you were just embarrassingly wrong about something, and somebody else had to point out the error.
posted by taz at 11:56 PM on September 8, 2009
Be pleasant but clear and straightforward, and take some pains to attack the problem, not the person. Don't say "you're wrong" or "you don't understand" or "that's a bad idea because XYZ" (your idea is bad!); instead say something like (in this case), "If we went with netbooks, how would we address the problem of advanced types of engineering courses, graphics, music, etc., that require more computing power than a netbook can provide?"
As you describe the conversation, your only real problem in there was this part: I made some comments that this was not true. You don't need to say it's "not true"; that's essentially the same as saying either "you're wrong," or "you're lying." Once you bring up the factual information that is at the heart of the problem, it becomes obvious that the incorrect statement is incorrect, but you haven't made a personal attack, and it also allows the person whose information you are challenging a bit of space to modify their point - as opposed to bristling at being pronounced wrong/ignorant.
Basically, within reason, you want to handle it in a way that you would appreciate if you were just embarrassingly wrong about something, and somebody else had to point out the error.
posted by taz at 11:56 PM on September 8, 2009
Stating facts is a neutral thing to do. Disagreeing makes it an argument and leads to things becoming fighty.
It's hard to articulate the difference, so I'll give an example:
Instead of:
Pompous faculty member: "Netbooks can do everything a regular computer can do."
You: "No, they can't, because of X, Y, and Z."
You could try:
Pompous faculty member: "Netbooks can do everything a regular computer can do."
You: "What should we do about X, Y, and Z?"
It's just a matter of how you couch things. Words like "no" "I disagree" "that's not true" and so forth turn it into a contest of opinions. And that's an argument.
Don't make a simple statement of facts into a contest of opinions.
Those words aren't necessary. You can communicate the exact same ideas without them.
Part of it is also your tone. A neutral, emotionless, matter of fact tone helps keep it a discussion of facts. A challenging, tense, or defensive tone turns it into an argument of opinions.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:57 PM on September 8, 2009
It's hard to articulate the difference, so I'll give an example:
Instead of:
Pompous faculty member: "Netbooks can do everything a regular computer can do."
You: "No, they can't, because of X, Y, and Z."
You could try:
Pompous faculty member: "Netbooks can do everything a regular computer can do."
You: "What should we do about X, Y, and Z?"
It's just a matter of how you couch things. Words like "no" "I disagree" "that's not true" and so forth turn it into a contest of opinions. And that's an argument.
Don't make a simple statement of facts into a contest of opinions.
Those words aren't necessary. You can communicate the exact same ideas without them.
Part of it is also your tone. A neutral, emotionless, matter of fact tone helps keep it a discussion of facts. A challenging, tense, or defensive tone turns it into an argument of opinions.
posted by Ashley801 at 11:57 PM on September 8, 2009
I also recommend that you read Getting to Yes... I think you can find parts of it online.
posted by Ashley801 at 12:03 AM on September 9, 2009
posted by Ashley801 at 12:03 AM on September 9, 2009
Yeah, most of these people are just saying read some Dale Carnegie, but for a short answer:
identify what you think is a (the?) problem with their solution.
offer an opportunity to solve what you think is a problem, in a way that allows a face-saving opportunity to defend their position
for example: how would a student who needs to run Mathematica and a C# compiler at the same time be served by a netbook?
instead of trying to convince tenured thickskulls, allow them the opportunity to see how their solution is inadequate, make them feel like your idea is their idea. basically, what taz said.
posted by headless at 12:24 AM on September 9, 2009
identify what you think is a (the?) problem with their solution.
offer an opportunity to solve what you think is a problem, in a way that allows a face-saving opportunity to defend their position
for example: how would a student who needs to run Mathematica and a C# compiler at the same time be served by a netbook?
instead of trying to convince tenured thickskulls, allow them the opportunity to see how their solution is inadequate, make them feel like your idea is their idea. basically, what taz said.
posted by headless at 12:24 AM on September 9, 2009
I disagree with the suggestion to sandwich the important information with white bread. See for example this askme not a page away for how this probably failed another middle-aged woman. On the other hand I second making your point as a question since it still gives them time to come up with the right answer by themselves. You may not receive credit as clearly (which it sounds like you don't care too much about) but if they still don't take the hint you can move on to bluntly answer your own question.
posted by gensubuser at 3:15 AM on September 9, 2009
posted by gensubuser at 3:15 AM on September 9, 2009
How much of this is your perception that you come off as a jerk and how much of it is you actually coming across as a jerk. A lot of women have been taught to behave in a particular, conciliatory, non-aggressive way, so they see behaviour that would be deemed perfectly acceptable in a man as possibly over the top in themselves.
If you didn't make anyone cry or even look uncomfortable, then the problem may not be with your behaviour but your perception of your behaviour. Is there anyone you're close to that you can ask about this to get an outside perspective?
posted by jacquilynne at 4:58 AM on September 9, 2009
If you didn't make anyone cry or even look uncomfortable, then the problem may not be with your behaviour but your perception of your behaviour. Is there anyone you're close to that you can ask about this to get an outside perspective?
posted by jacquilynne at 4:58 AM on September 9, 2009
Don't phrase things as questions if they aren't questions. It comes across as passive aggressive or condescending.
You're at the meeting to participate, not to simply receive information. When you've got a different viewpoint you need to share it directly. It's not being a jerk to state a differing opinion or to provide additional information. It's being a mature professional who takes an interest in department decisions.
posted by 26.2 at 7:48 AM on September 9, 2009
You're at the meeting to participate, not to simply receive information. When you've got a different viewpoint you need to share it directly. It's not being a jerk to state a differing opinion or to provide additional information. It's being a mature professional who takes an interest in department decisions.
posted by 26.2 at 7:48 AM on September 9, 2009
If all else fails, get a hold of a netbook and demonstrate at the next meeting. Showing beats telling every time.
Just imagine: "First, let's install the software. Here's the CD. Whoops! There's no drive! OK. Let's borrow someone's drive [haul out USB CD drive]. Now, let's install the software. [wait.] [wait.] [wait some more]"
Bonus points if you haul in a normal laptop for instant comparison. Obviously you could dramatically show differences in screen size running typical apps, and you could show processing speed differences head to head if you had something else preinstalled.
You could give the netbook to one guy (the netbook proponent, obviously), and the laptop to someone else, and have them both do a task, and see what happens (between constraints of screen size and processor speed).
Be sure to mention if you own a netbook yourself, and tout their advantages--they're definitely small, light, and cheap. Perhaps offer a compromise of sorts--if netbooks are appropriate for some fraction of the students, can perhaps some students get netbooks and some laptops depending on some criteria such as declared major or grade level? If it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing decision, don't make it one.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:58 AM on September 9, 2009
Just imagine: "First, let's install the software. Here's the CD. Whoops! There's no drive! OK. Let's borrow someone's drive [haul out USB CD drive]. Now, let's install the software. [wait.] [wait.] [wait some more]"
Bonus points if you haul in a normal laptop for instant comparison. Obviously you could dramatically show differences in screen size running typical apps, and you could show processing speed differences head to head if you had something else preinstalled.
You could give the netbook to one guy (the netbook proponent, obviously), and the laptop to someone else, and have them both do a task, and see what happens (between constraints of screen size and processor speed).
Be sure to mention if you own a netbook yourself, and tout their advantages--they're definitely small, light, and cheap. Perhaps offer a compromise of sorts--if netbooks are appropriate for some fraction of the students, can perhaps some students get netbooks and some laptops depending on some criteria such as declared major or grade level? If it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing decision, don't make it one.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:58 AM on September 9, 2009
Oh, c'mon, wtf. Iowa.... criminy guy get off the Midwest stereotype.
Just a guess based on her profile. I don't believe there's anywhere in the USA where second-class citizen type female roles should be accepted as normal, either.
Also, because I think it was misunderstood a couple of times above: no, don't use little girly / feminine "charms" to sell your points, because that's two long-term steps backward. Rather, freely use the fact that if the other person (of any sex) has a need to feel superior (for any reason)... let them, by puffing them up on what they're right about while also making your own gentle points. Many people suggest this in different ways above, too.
It's not a man-woman issue; it's just advice for dealing with any who tend to dominate conversation and marginalize disagreements.
posted by rokusan at 9:55 AM on September 9, 2009
Just a guess based on her profile. I don't believe there's anywhere in the USA where second-class citizen type female roles should be accepted as normal, either.
Also, because I think it was misunderstood a couple of times above: no, don't use little girly / feminine "charms" to sell your points, because that's two long-term steps backward. Rather, freely use the fact that if the other person (of any sex) has a need to feel superior (for any reason)... let them, by puffing them up on what they're right about while also making your own gentle points. Many people suggest this in different ways above, too.
It's not a man-woman issue; it's just advice for dealing with any who tend to dominate conversation and marginalize disagreements.
posted by rokusan at 9:55 AM on September 9, 2009
Realize that there is a difference between being well-liked and being well-respected.
I know more than a few women that are considered to be well-liked in their workplaces, but are at career standstills because they're too nice, and they aren't seen as leadership material.
You may also want to read the book Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office for advice on how to be kind but effective. The author specifically advises against making statements in the form of a question, and she has a lot of other useful bits of advice too.
I think that you're probably doing just fine ... nothing wrong with being direct and honest.
posted by Ostara at 3:45 PM on September 9, 2009
I know more than a few women that are considered to be well-liked in their workplaces, but are at career standstills because they're too nice, and they aren't seen as leadership material.
You may also want to read the book Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office for advice on how to be kind but effective. The author specifically advises against making statements in the form of a question, and she has a lot of other useful bits of advice too.
I think that you're probably doing just fine ... nothing wrong with being direct and honest.
posted by Ostara at 3:45 PM on September 9, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
"Oh, absolutely, netbooks are great and should do as well as a regular computer for a lot of our students. Some students will still need a computer for higher-end purposes like engineering and video editing, but I think netbooks will still be great for many, many students."
posted by lore at 7:55 PM on September 8, 2009