Suspicious minds
July 24, 2012 9:22 AM Subscribe
I think my Dad's screwing around on my Mom. What do I do?
So, I think I have some pretty solid but circumstantial evidence that my Dad is screwing around. Evidence in question was a photosharing site invitation, but from the wrong photosite. He (probably) meant to send one from a family username (since I got that one thirty second later) but instead it came from some other username. I checked the profile and it contained his email address, but not one he usually uses to correspond with me. Photosite contained some intimate (ish) images of a woman. I sent an email asking about this and have since been receiving a string of one paragraph emails attempting to explain how it was an old email that was hacked but he could still get in and shut it down again.
So, I'm sitting here shaking with rage. I have not responded to these explanatory emails, but I cannot avoid them/him indefinitely. The evidence is circumstantial, all I've really got is a pretty sketchy looking photo account with portraits that are not really nudes, or obscene but sure as hell intimate and inappropriate... however the string of bullshit emails is not only insulting to my intelligence, but almost seems more incriminating than the actual site. There was another suspicion raising incident a few years ago, but I had been drinking heavily that night and wrote it off to the booze leading me astray.
So, what do I do? I am almost positive that my Mom would be clueless IF something were going on (not stupid, but very trusting) and I am pretty sure the discovery would destroy her and shatter the family, she is also 100% financially dependent on him as she stayed at home to raise our family. I live on the opposite side of the country so having a personal face to face talk with anyone is out of the question, given my current anger I am pretty sure a face to face with Dad would put one of us in jail and the other in the hospital getting a broken nose fixed.
On one hand, they're grown-ups and I don't have the whole story or all the information, or even enough real information to decide whether he's having an affair, or just takes inappropriate photographs, or is a victim of hacking. On the other hand, WHAT A FUCKING DOUCHEBAG.
So, stick my nose in or keep my mouth shut?
Mini-update: (coincidentally?) While I was typing this the photosite was taken down
So, I think I have some pretty solid but circumstantial evidence that my Dad is screwing around. Evidence in question was a photosharing site invitation, but from the wrong photosite. He (probably) meant to send one from a family username (since I got that one thirty second later) but instead it came from some other username. I checked the profile and it contained his email address, but not one he usually uses to correspond with me. Photosite contained some intimate (ish) images of a woman. I sent an email asking about this and have since been receiving a string of one paragraph emails attempting to explain how it was an old email that was hacked but he could still get in and shut it down again.
So, I'm sitting here shaking with rage. I have not responded to these explanatory emails, but I cannot avoid them/him indefinitely. The evidence is circumstantial, all I've really got is a pretty sketchy looking photo account with portraits that are not really nudes, or obscene but sure as hell intimate and inappropriate... however the string of bullshit emails is not only insulting to my intelligence, but almost seems more incriminating than the actual site. There was another suspicion raising incident a few years ago, but I had been drinking heavily that night and wrote it off to the booze leading me astray.
So, what do I do? I am almost positive that my Mom would be clueless IF something were going on (not stupid, but very trusting) and I am pretty sure the discovery would destroy her and shatter the family, she is also 100% financially dependent on him as she stayed at home to raise our family. I live on the opposite side of the country so having a personal face to face talk with anyone is out of the question, given my current anger I am pretty sure a face to face with Dad would put one of us in jail and the other in the hospital getting a broken nose fixed.
On one hand, they're grown-ups and I don't have the whole story or all the information, or even enough real information to decide whether he's having an affair, or just takes inappropriate photographs, or is a victim of hacking. On the other hand, WHAT A FUCKING DOUCHEBAG.
So, stick my nose in or keep my mouth shut?
Mini-update: (coincidentally?) While I was typing this the photosite was taken down
As hard as it is to stay out of, I would try. If you, his child, have figured out he's cheating on his wife, don't you think the chances are actually pretty good she knows or suspects it as well? When my dad was cheating on my mom, she knew, and stayed with him. If I had known this at the time I would have been absolutely floored.
Whatever you decide, do nothing for at least a few days to give yourself time to cool off. Taking action that could have serious, long-term consequences while you are seriously angry is always a bad idea.
posted by something something at 9:31 AM on July 24, 2012 [9 favorites]
Whatever you decide, do nothing for at least a few days to give yourself time to cool off. Taking action that could have serious, long-term consequences while you are seriously angry is always a bad idea.
posted by something something at 9:31 AM on July 24, 2012 [9 favorites]
Mind your own business.
posted by rr at 9:33 AM on July 24, 2012 [39 favorites]
posted by rr at 9:33 AM on July 24, 2012 [39 favorites]
Did you get any screenshots?
At the least, let him know he's not fooling you and you don't like the way he's being disrespectful to your mother and to your family unit. Tell him you don't expect this to happen again, and he needs to get help to sort this out.
posted by discopolo at 9:33 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
At the least, let him know he's not fooling you and you don't like the way he's being disrespectful to your mother and to your family unit. Tell him you don't expect this to happen again, and he needs to get help to sort this out.
posted by discopolo at 9:33 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Do you recognize the location where the photos were taken? Do you have contacts back home (not your mom) that might recognize the woman? If you can prove that the woman is local, it almost certainly throws his explanation out the window.
posted by cnc at 9:33 AM on July 24, 2012
posted by cnc at 9:33 AM on July 24, 2012
In a situation like what you describe, I think you really need to know more before you take any action that might involve your mom finding out.
I would agree with a phone call to your dad, ideally after a few days or a week has passed to you can talk to him without screaming obscenities. It sounds very suspicious and you'll probably be able to get him to tell you more about this situation depending on how you play your cards during the phone conversation.
I think it defies human nature to think that you could just ignore this and mind your own business. Nor would I be interested in that course of action were it my parents who were involved...
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:34 AM on July 24, 2012 [18 favorites]
I would agree with a phone call to your dad, ideally after a few days or a week has passed to you can talk to him without screaming obscenities. It sounds very suspicious and you'll probably be able to get him to tell you more about this situation depending on how you play your cards during the phone conversation.
I think it defies human nature to think that you could just ignore this and mind your own business. Nor would I be interested in that course of action were it my parents who were involved...
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:34 AM on July 24, 2012 [18 favorites]
Now your dad knows you know. This will have some impact on the situation. If it would make you feel better to send him an email telling him you don't accept his excuses and that you are angry with him and concerned for your mother, my guess is that it would only confirm his expectations.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:36 AM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:36 AM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
You talk to your father.
Don't make any threats, but call him on his bullshit if he tries to lie to you again. Ask, "What are you going to do about this?"
He made it your business when he sent you the email and now you can't get it out of your head, but you don't involve mom unless you have absolute proof and not just a link that is no longer active.
posted by inturnaround at 9:37 AM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
Don't make any threats, but call him on his bullshit if he tries to lie to you again. Ask, "What are you going to do about this?"
He made it your business when he sent you the email and now you can't get it out of your head, but you don't involve mom unless you have absolute proof and not just a link that is no longer active.
posted by inturnaround at 9:37 AM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
You don't have circumstantial evidence, you have no evidence. It seems more likely you caught your date looking at pictures. You have no reason to believe he took those pictures, or knows the person in those pictures.
You are an adult now, this is not actually your business any more. Stay out of it.
posted by spaltavian at 9:38 AM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
You are an adult now, this is not actually your business any more. Stay out of it.
posted by spaltavian at 9:38 AM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
I think you need to go full on radio silence for at least a week. Think it over when you've cooled off, decide what you want to do, what you want to say to him. But wait it out. That will have the added benefit of making him sweat, which isn't such a bad thing. Also, I agree that there is a strong possibility that your mom already knows or suspects.
posted by thinkpiece at 9:40 AM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by thinkpiece at 9:40 AM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
Also, I forgot to add: even if it just between him and your Mom, it's going to become your burden when it inevitably explodes.
Don't hate him though. See it as a stupid behavior that he needs to change. He's doing something that he's rightfully ashamed of for whatever reason that he feels entitled to doing behind your mom's back without any regard for you or her or thought as to the fallout when it inevitably comes to light.
And don't tell your mom until your dad has had a chance to come to the full realization that this is a problem that threatens the well-being of the people you love, is willing to change. And if he isn't, don't tell her until you are ready with a list of resources for her that will help her cope when you are ready to help her through this.
posted by discopolo at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2012
Don't hate him though. See it as a stupid behavior that he needs to change. He's doing something that he's rightfully ashamed of for whatever reason that he feels entitled to doing behind your mom's back without any regard for you or her or thought as to the fallout when it inevitably comes to light.
And don't tell your mom until your dad has had a chance to come to the full realization that this is a problem that threatens the well-being of the people you love, is willing to change. And if he isn't, don't tell her until you are ready with a list of resources for her that will help her cope when you are ready to help her through this.
posted by discopolo at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2012
Don't do anything at all while you're this pissed. You acknowledge that there are multiple possibilities at play, and that your parents are grownups and how they negotiate their relationship is between them, but you still have this intense DOUCHEBAG! response.
Read the answers you get here, breathe, and give yourself time. *IF* anything is going on, and *IF* there's any action you need to take, you can take action next week or next month as easily as today.
posted by bunderful at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Read the answers you get here, breathe, and give yourself time. *IF* anything is going on, and *IF* there's any action you need to take, you can take action next week or next month as easily as today.
posted by bunderful at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
You need to confront your father about this, in person, and have him explain it to you.
Be blunt about what you saw and how you feel. Then, see what he does and how he acts before you even think about telling your mom. Once you ring "that" bell with your Mom, you can't un-ring it.
As for how your Mom would do financially in the event of a divorce, the courts take into consideration if one of the spouses stayed home and raised kids. In other words, in the event of divorce (or even separation, depending on if she filed for some type of emergency spousal support) your Dad would be paying alimony to her for the foreseeable future until she got on her feet.
posted by PsuDab93 at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2012
Be blunt about what you saw and how you feel. Then, see what he does and how he acts before you even think about telling your mom. Once you ring "that" bell with your Mom, you can't un-ring it.
As for how your Mom would do financially in the event of a divorce, the courts take into consideration if one of the spouses stayed home and raised kids. In other words, in the event of divorce (or even separation, depending on if she filed for some type of emergency spousal support) your Dad would be paying alimony to her for the foreseeable future until she got on her feet.
posted by PsuDab93 at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2012
Acting on my own suspicion, I asked my mom many years ago if my father was having an affair, she responded, somewhat surprised, that she was not discussing that subject with me and that it was none of my business.
I brought it up again a few years ago and was again rebuffed with, ” That's between your father and me, mind your own business.”
Add hard as it was to hear, and doubly so to swallow, she's right. But not knowing the details probably saved ny relationship with my father, who is not a 'bad guy', just a man who screwed around on someone who is difficult to love and stayed in the end.
You can be angry at him, but your relationship with your father is completely separate from your mother's. Stay out of it.
posted by ApathyGirl at 9:50 AM on July 24, 2012 [31 favorites]
I brought it up again a few years ago and was again rebuffed with, ” That's between your father and me, mind your own business.”
Add hard as it was to hear, and doubly so to swallow, she's right. But not knowing the details probably saved ny relationship with my father, who is not a 'bad guy', just a man who screwed around on someone who is difficult to love and stayed in the end.
You can be angry at him, but your relationship with your father is completely separate from your mother's. Stay out of it.
posted by ApathyGirl at 9:50 AM on July 24, 2012 [31 favorites]
To say that this is none of your business and you should stay out of it and forget about it is completely unreasonable and probably impossible, especially after looking at those photos and then being confronted with all of these probably-lies.
And anyway, as said above, your dad made it your business, albeit accidentally. It's his fault that he exposed his own whatever-this-is.
But you don't know what it is, so I think you can just say to him, "Look, it's really hard for me not to jump to conclusions about what this looks like, and your excuses are making it worse. I really hope this is not what I think it is, but just know that I completely don't accept your BS explanations."
You certainly don't have enough to go and tell your mom. It could be a full-on affair, or he could be communicating online with women which could eventually lead to an affair, or he could just be collecting photos of random women on the internet to peep at.
That doesn't mean you have to pretend to your dad that you are swallowing what he's shovelling at you--I think that's a lot of what would make this hard to handle, for me. You can say, "This is your business [if you want to ruin our family!!], but just know that you're not fooling me."
posted by thebazilist at 9:54 AM on July 24, 2012 [11 favorites]
And anyway, as said above, your dad made it your business, albeit accidentally. It's his fault that he exposed his own whatever-this-is.
But you don't know what it is, so I think you can just say to him, "Look, it's really hard for me not to jump to conclusions about what this looks like, and your excuses are making it worse. I really hope this is not what I think it is, but just know that I completely don't accept your BS explanations."
You certainly don't have enough to go and tell your mom. It could be a full-on affair, or he could be communicating online with women which could eventually lead to an affair, or he could just be collecting photos of random women on the internet to peep at.
That doesn't mean you have to pretend to your dad that you are swallowing what he's shovelling at you--I think that's a lot of what would make this hard to handle, for me. You can say, "This is your business [if you want to ruin our family!!], but just know that you're not fooling me."
posted by thebazilist at 9:54 AM on July 24, 2012 [11 favorites]
This potentially impacts your mother's safety (medically if he is actually having a physical affair, emotionally if he's screwing around on any level.) Give it a week so you're not blindingly furious, and then tell him you're going to tell your mom exactly what you found (without any speculation) in one more week, and he might want to talk to her first. Be prepared to show her screenshots, if you have them. She deserves to have this information.
(I would also tell you to deal with a friend in the same manner, for what it's worth. The fact that it's your parents complicates matters, but isn't the primary consideration in my opinion.)
posted by SMPA at 9:58 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
(I would also tell you to deal with a friend in the same manner, for what it's worth. The fact that it's your parents complicates matters, but isn't the primary consideration in my opinion.)
posted by SMPA at 9:58 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
My father made his affair my business when I was just out of college. After some thought, I told him that I was not going to be able to keep his secrets for him, that he was putting my mother's health at risk, and that he was going to damage his relationships with all of his children if he did not shape the fuck up.
I don't regret having had that conversation with him one bit.
I do regret how I let him pull me into being an intermediary between them while they were sorting things out. I regret being made to feel like it was my responsibility to protect my younger siblings from him hurting them. I regret that I softened the blow for him.
So my advice to you is: have boundaries. Know what are you willing to do and what you are not willing to do. If you feel like you can look the other way, that's fine. Do that. If you don't, don't. But also, if you don't want to be involved, you don't have to be. And you can choose your level of involvement. You can tell him that he has to come clean or you'll come clean for him, and then have that be that. You don't have to do anything more than that if you don't want to. You don't have to help your mother or the rest of your family (which might end up just making it easier for him to leave).
Please feel free to memail me if you like. There's no great decision here, and no wrong one.
posted by gauche at 10:02 AM on July 24, 2012 [18 favorites]
I don't regret having had that conversation with him one bit.
I do regret how I let him pull me into being an intermediary between them while they were sorting things out. I regret being made to feel like it was my responsibility to protect my younger siblings from him hurting them. I regret that I softened the blow for him.
So my advice to you is: have boundaries. Know what are you willing to do and what you are not willing to do. If you feel like you can look the other way, that's fine. Do that. If you don't, don't. But also, if you don't want to be involved, you don't have to be. And you can choose your level of involvement. You can tell him that he has to come clean or you'll come clean for him, and then have that be that. You don't have to do anything more than that if you don't want to. You don't have to help your mother or the rest of your family (which might end up just making it easier for him to leave).
Please feel free to memail me if you like. There's no great decision here, and no wrong one.
posted by gauche at 10:02 AM on July 24, 2012 [18 favorites]
I think you may be leaping to a few assumptions here. First of all, how do you know your parents aren't in an open marriage, and simply too embarrassed to tell you? This may seem unlikely to you since you've got an ingrained mental image of them, but most parents (thankfully) don't share the details of their sex life with their children.
Second of all, even if your dad is cheating, why are you assume your mom is blameless? Maybe it's possible that she had an affair with somebody else a long while ago, and your dad is simply getting even. (Some say that vindictiveness is never justification for anything, but I've always believed that hurting somebody the exact same way that they have hurt me is a good way to teach them empathy for what I went through.)
Of course, it's possible that you're entirely right and the only real story is that your dad is a cheating douchebag, but right now you don't know that. My point is simply that you completely lack any context and background for the situation and until you know the whole story, I don't think you have any right to judge your father.
To me, the real issue (at least, for now) is that your dad's excuses insult your intelligence and disrespect you. I suggest telling him to cut the crap and level with you about everything, or you're going straight to mom. This fulfills the joint purpose of asserting your right to know the full story while at the same time gathering the information you need to make an informed decision.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 10:26 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
Second of all, even if your dad is cheating, why are you assume your mom is blameless? Maybe it's possible that she had an affair with somebody else a long while ago, and your dad is simply getting even. (Some say that vindictiveness is never justification for anything, but I've always believed that hurting somebody the exact same way that they have hurt me is a good way to teach them empathy for what I went through.)
Of course, it's possible that you're entirely right and the only real story is that your dad is a cheating douchebag, but right now you don't know that. My point is simply that you completely lack any context and background for the situation and until you know the whole story, I don't think you have any right to judge your father.
To me, the real issue (at least, for now) is that your dad's excuses insult your intelligence and disrespect you. I suggest telling him to cut the crap and level with you about everything, or you're going straight to mom. This fulfills the joint purpose of asserting your right to know the full story while at the same time gathering the information you need to make an informed decision.
posted by wolfdreams01 at 10:26 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
I can't imagine such a thing not being my business. It's your family, after all. But I would talk directly to the person in question, not my mother. I fully agree that it's not right to expect you to cover up and keep secrets - what a terrible position for a child to be put in, tantamount to colluding with one parent to deceive another.
But first of all, cool off; you could indeed be misconstruing it. It could be that your dad is checking things out online, or maybe corresponding with someone, but that's as far as it goes. Not that that isn't also its own problem, but it might not be as severe as what you imagine.
all I've really got is a pretty sketchy looking photo account
Have you searched on that email address just to see if anything else is out there under that address? Do an image search too.
posted by Miko at 10:27 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
But first of all, cool off; you could indeed be misconstruing it. It could be that your dad is checking things out online, or maybe corresponding with someone, but that's as far as it goes. Not that that isn't also its own problem, but it might not be as severe as what you imagine.
all I've really got is a pretty sketchy looking photo account
Have you searched on that email address just to see if anything else is out there under that address? Do an image search too.
posted by Miko at 10:27 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
I told him that I was not going to be able to keep his secrets for him, that he was putting my mother's health at risk, and that he was going to damage his relationships with all of his children if he did not shape the fuck up.
This.
Your mom may well not know. She may not want to know. You don't really know what she knows. She may suspect and be in denial. She may know and be ignoring it. That's her right, actually. This is her marriage, not yours. If you come in and rip off the blinders, then you have taken that option away from her.
I say this as someone who has been on the receiving end of the "your husband is having an affair" newsflash. You need to be really clear *why* before you talk to your mom, because if you are angry at your dad, and tell your mom out of vindictiveness, you may cause your mom pain she doesn't deserve. She's innocent. If your suspicions are correct, she's in for a lot of pain. Don't add to that.
So I would counsel you to tell your Dad he needs to make things right with your mom. And be abundantly clear that you are not ever going to lie to your mother. Ever.
posted by ambrosia at 10:32 AM on July 24, 2012 [8 favorites]
This.
Your mom may well not know. She may not want to know. You don't really know what she knows. She may suspect and be in denial. She may know and be ignoring it. That's her right, actually. This is her marriage, not yours. If you come in and rip off the blinders, then you have taken that option away from her.
I say this as someone who has been on the receiving end of the "your husband is having an affair" newsflash. You need to be really clear *why* before you talk to your mom, because if you are angry at your dad, and tell your mom out of vindictiveness, you may cause your mom pain she doesn't deserve. She's innocent. If your suspicions are correct, she's in for a lot of pain. Don't add to that.
So I would counsel you to tell your Dad he needs to make things right with your mom. And be abundantly clear that you are not ever going to lie to your mother. Ever.
posted by ambrosia at 10:32 AM on July 24, 2012 [8 favorites]
I would follow the rule that applies to asking women if they are pregnant: unless you see them actually giving birth, DO NOT ASK.
Similarly, unless you walk in on him in flagrante delecto, you just have to keep your nose out of it. You are making lots of assumptions and could stir up a whole unnecessary pot of hornets if you're wrong.
And if you're right, tread carefully. This is between your parents.
posted by Leezie at 10:37 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
Similarly, unless you walk in on him in flagrante delecto, you just have to keep your nose out of it. You are making lots of assumptions and could stir up a whole unnecessary pot of hornets if you're wrong.
And if you're right, tread carefully. This is between your parents.
posted by Leezie at 10:37 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would NOT want my child to tell me that my husband was cheating on me. There are a hundred reasons I'd look the other way if he was having an affair, and I wouldn't want to have to explain them to my child, or to even have to explain them to myself.
Your mother may be different. The point of my post is just to tell you that her perspective is important, and that if I were her, I'd want you to consider that first and foremost.
posted by Capri at 10:40 AM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
Your mother may be different. The point of my post is just to tell you that her perspective is important, and that if I were her, I'd want you to consider that first and foremost.
posted by Capri at 10:40 AM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]
So my advice to you is: have boundaries. Know what are you willing to do and what you are not willing to do. If you feel like you can look the other way, that's fine. Do that. If you don't, don't. But also, if you don't want to be involved, you don't have to be. And you can choose your level of involvement. You can tell him that he has to come clean or you'll come clean for him, and then have that be that. You don't have to do anything more than that if you don't want to. You don't have to help your mother or the rest of your family (which might end up just making it easier for him to leave).
seconding this. I got dragged into the fallout of my stepmother's affair. the cleanup destroyed the family and went on for well over a decade, and there are still occasional issues due to it.
also, don't do anything while you're furious. disengage until you are detached.
posted by par court at 10:42 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
seconding this. I got dragged into the fallout of my stepmother's affair. the cleanup destroyed the family and went on for well over a decade, and there are still occasional issues due to it.
also, don't do anything while you're furious. disengage until you are detached.
posted by par court at 10:42 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
So, your evidence is that your dad has porn? You say there are intimate photographs but you don't say if your father is in them. Bullshit responses seem understandable if his adult child is confronting him about porn.
Stay out of it. You don't know what their relationship is like. You don't know about their sex life. It is not your responsibility to police their relationship.
posted by munchingzombie at 10:43 AM on July 24, 2012 [9 favorites]
Stay out of it. You don't know what their relationship is like. You don't know about their sex life. It is not your responsibility to police their relationship.
posted by munchingzombie at 10:43 AM on July 24, 2012 [9 favorites]
Your parent's relationship is their business.
posted by Silvertree at 10:56 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Silvertree at 10:56 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mind your own business.
Your mother's emotional well-being is your business. I'd sit him down for an honest talk. Bring the E-mails. Read them out-loud. He'll see that they aren't believable. Tell him that something needs to change and that you hope it starts with him.
You cannot stand idly by while your own mother is harmed.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:56 AM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
Your mother's emotional well-being is your business. I'd sit him down for an honest talk. Bring the E-mails. Read them out-loud. He'll see that they aren't believable. Tell him that something needs to change and that you hope it starts with him.
You cannot stand idly by while your own mother is harmed.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:56 AM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
So you acknowledge that you don't have enough information to really know what's going on, but you feel totally justified in calling your father a fucking douchebag?
Dang.
Ask yourself, before you do or say anything further... how would you feel if someone were making assumptions about your own life and behavior based on a couple of small bits of information, and behaving toward you the way you are behaving toward your father?
posted by palomar at 10:59 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Dang.
Ask yourself, before you do or say anything further... how would you feel if someone were making assumptions about your own life and behavior based on a couple of small bits of information, and behaving toward you the way you are behaving toward your father?
posted by palomar at 10:59 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
I have a close friend that was in a similar situation. He did two things, neither of which really worked out:
1. Talked to his father beforehand and told him that he needed to end the affair and come clean with his mom. His dad denied the affair at first, then admitted it but kept putting off talking to him mom and making excuses.
2. Eventually told his mom about it. She was already suspicious but reacted very badly towards her son, blaming him for pushing her towards divorce and breaking up their marriage. She was resentful towards her son for a long time.
Obviously, your parents are not the same people as my friend's parents and may not react the same. If your father has been cheating your mother may already know or may be deeply in denial.
For your own sanity, I would suggest not getting involved, as hard as it is. Your parents are adults and you should not be responsible for sorting out their sex lives. If anything, I would speak to your father, tell him you are suspicious, and point out that he is endangering you mom emotionally and physically. However, you can not make yourself responsible for their relationship. It is not good for you and it's not good for them.
posted by elvissa at 11:03 AM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
1. Talked to his father beforehand and told him that he needed to end the affair and come clean with his mom. His dad denied the affair at first, then admitted it but kept putting off talking to him mom and making excuses.
2. Eventually told his mom about it. She was already suspicious but reacted very badly towards her son, blaming him for pushing her towards divorce and breaking up their marriage. She was resentful towards her son for a long time.
Obviously, your parents are not the same people as my friend's parents and may not react the same. If your father has been cheating your mother may already know or may be deeply in denial.
For your own sanity, I would suggest not getting involved, as hard as it is. Your parents are adults and you should not be responsible for sorting out their sex lives. If anything, I would speak to your father, tell him you are suspicious, and point out that he is endangering you mom emotionally and physically. However, you can not make yourself responsible for their relationship. It is not good for you and it's not good for them.
posted by elvissa at 11:03 AM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
OK, I can definitely identify. I will spare you the story on why exactly I can identify.
Here's a (gross but effective) technique I have found helpful. Think back to when you were a kid and (as far as you knew) they were sleeping with each other regularly and enjoying it and it was ultra-gross. Gross, right?! Ewww.
What if, God forbid, you found out that some aspect of that experience was not so great for your mother? Are you going to inform your father that he's not doing it right? God, no. How disgusting. Can't even think about it.
So too with this. It's not any more of your concern than the above two paragraphs.
Yes, affairs have implications beyond the bedroom. Say, just for example, one of your parents is diverting money to the affair. The other one either knows or will find out without your help.
One piece of advice: don't put the offending parent in a position where they will have to lie to you or make excuses that border on lies. You don't want to hear that they were out walking the dog or what have you.
posted by skbw at 11:03 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Here's a (gross but effective) technique I have found helpful. Think back to when you were a kid and (as far as you knew) they were sleeping with each other regularly and enjoying it and it was ultra-gross. Gross, right?! Ewww.
What if, God forbid, you found out that some aspect of that experience was not so great for your mother? Are you going to inform your father that he's not doing it right? God, no. How disgusting. Can't even think about it.
So too with this. It's not any more of your concern than the above two paragraphs.
Yes, affairs have implications beyond the bedroom. Say, just for example, one of your parents is diverting money to the affair. The other one either knows or will find out without your help.
One piece of advice: don't put the offending parent in a position where they will have to lie to you or make excuses that border on lies. You don't want to hear that they were out walking the dog or what have you.
posted by skbw at 11:03 AM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
He was cheating on me for years, everyone suspected, but no one ever told me
I have seen this happen too many times to count. My recommendation is to do on to others.
If you were your mother, would you want to know this information? Do you believe that she would want to know?
If it's really nothing, then they will figure that out between themselves, but you really need to consider if this is a lie of omission you're getting into with your mother (which is entirely up to you to decide, not anyone on the internet).
posted by Shouraku at 11:06 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have seen this happen too many times to count. My recommendation is to do on to others.
If you were your mother, would you want to know this information? Do you believe that she would want to know?
If it's really nothing, then they will figure that out between themselves, but you really need to consider if this is a lie of omission you're getting into with your mother (which is entirely up to you to decide, not anyone on the internet).
posted by Shouraku at 11:06 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm so confused. You found a picture of a woman in your dad's email? And for this you want to break his nose?
Honestly, if you were that aggressive toward me, I would send you bullshit emails so that I wouldn't have to engage further. Even if there were really something there, you need to not get involved until you work on your anger issues.
posted by moammargaret at 11:11 AM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
Honestly, if you were that aggressive toward me, I would send you bullshit emails so that I wouldn't have to engage further. Even if there were really something there, you need to not get involved until you work on your anger issues.
posted by moammargaret at 11:11 AM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think it's a huge leap from "dad collects sexy pictures" to "dad is having an affair."
Your father could be stowing a porn collection online. He might just be a fan of this woman.
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:13 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
Your father could be stowing a porn collection online. He might just be a fan of this woman.
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:13 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'd talk to him at some point to see if it is what you think and ask what you are supposed to do-- or he would do, in your position. Not rhetorically but in a "Where do we go from here?" sort of sense. I would also ask him if he is doing other stuff like hiding money or otherwise preparing to screw your mother over. I would not just ignore it; people can be very mean to you when you know where the bodies are buried.
posted by BibiRose at 11:14 AM on July 24, 2012
posted by BibiRose at 11:14 AM on July 24, 2012
As difficult as it might be, you need to stay out of it. You have no idea what mom and dad have already talked about. Did you consider that maybe your mom already knows?
This is none of your business. I know it's hard, but stay out of it.
posted by Thistledown at 11:22 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is none of your business. I know it's hard, but stay out of it.
posted by Thistledown at 11:22 AM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
I want to add a postscript to my story:
Last year, around the same time my dad was celebrating their 40th anniversary with my mom in the hospital, I found definitive proof of the affair in my mom's things. And I was angry. I wanted to confront him about it, or at least ask, "What the hell?", you know? What I realized was that 1) my mom knew, way before I first suspected 2) she'd already had the confrontation, and 3) they decided to stay together for whatever reason (this explains a lot about the last 20 years of their relationship).
I also realized that there was LITERALLY NOTHING my father could say to me that would make it any better. I ran through scenario after scenario in my head, and they all just made me feel sick and angry and hurt for my mom, which was WAY worse than the solace I had in not knowing what had gone down.
So tread carefully. The decisions you make today about this will have far, far reaching effects on everyone involved.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:30 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
Last year, around the same time my dad was celebrating their 40th anniversary with my mom in the hospital, I found definitive proof of the affair in my mom's things. And I was angry. I wanted to confront him about it, or at least ask, "What the hell?", you know? What I realized was that 1) my mom knew, way before I first suspected 2) she'd already had the confrontation, and 3) they decided to stay together for whatever reason (this explains a lot about the last 20 years of their relationship).
I also realized that there was LITERALLY NOTHING my father could say to me that would make it any better. I ran through scenario after scenario in my head, and they all just made me feel sick and angry and hurt for my mom, which was WAY worse than the solace I had in not knowing what had gone down.
So tread carefully. The decisions you make today about this will have far, far reaching effects on everyone involved.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:30 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think it is fair to tell your dad how hurtful it was seeing this, that his emails sound like BS to you, and that you really hope he hasn't betrayed your mother. But maybe it's best to leave it at that considering all of the other responses against confronting them. I especially liked ambrosia's:
She may suspect and be in denial. She may know and be ignoring it. That's her right, actually. This is her marriage, not yours. If you come in and rip off the blinders, then you have taken that option away from her.
Maybe it makes sense for you to put more effort into your relationship with your mom so she knows you are there for support if needed (not that this isn't the case already).
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:42 AM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
She may suspect and be in denial. She may know and be ignoring it. That's her right, actually. This is her marriage, not yours. If you come in and rip off the blinders, then you have taken that option away from her.
Maybe it makes sense for you to put more effort into your relationship with your mom so she knows you are there for support if needed (not that this isn't the case already).
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:42 AM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]
as hard as it is, i would stay out of it. you don't have enough information, at all. you have no way of knowing whether your intervention would do good or harm, and once you go down that road, you will be permanently involved in something very private and intimate between your parents, which is not where anyone ever wants to be.
just a for-instance, purely hypothetical. you call out your dad. he feels threatened. he now has the drop on your mom, because he knows the whole thing is going to blow up and she doesn't. he moves all his money into a new bank account and leaves town. you try to explain to your mom why you didn't warn her. boom.
you can't possibly know what kind of effect your intervention will have. you don't want to go down this road. swallow your anger and move on.
posted by facetious at 11:54 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
just a for-instance, purely hypothetical. you call out your dad. he feels threatened. he now has the drop on your mom, because he knows the whole thing is going to blow up and she doesn't. he moves all his money into a new bank account and leaves town. you try to explain to your mom why you didn't warn her. boom.
you can't possibly know what kind of effect your intervention will have. you don't want to go down this road. swallow your anger and move on.
posted by facetious at 11:54 AM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
You are a grown person, they are married to each other, not you.
Keep your non-broken nose out of it.
posted by roboton666 at 12:35 PM on July 24, 2012
Keep your non-broken nose out of it.
posted by roboton666 at 12:35 PM on July 24, 2012
Unless you have concrete evidence, it would be best to mind your own business.
posted by cwarmy at 12:41 PM on July 24, 2012
posted by cwarmy at 12:41 PM on July 24, 2012
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
Thank you all for the input so far. I am a little calmer today than last night when I discovered these and wrote the original post.posted by cortex (staff) at 12:49 PM on July 24, 2012 [8 favorites]
Some of you have suggested that maybe he's collecting porn or is just a fan of some random internet woman. I would like to address that quickly, not to start an argument... more that those responses really aren't helpful to me and I want to put those to rest. This was/is not porn or collecting photos of someone he had a crush on without their knowledge. The photosite in question contained pics from an iphone camera(found in the EXIF) of a single individual. They were "intimate portrait style" of the sort I have many of my own partner. They were taken inside a bedroom/hotel room. The individual in question looks remarkably similar to my fathers assistant, but I do not know her very well and could only say I'm 70-80% sure of that. Her facebook pictures are just not good enough for a 100% level of confidence. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine an innocent explanation as to why these pictures would exist on a married mans flickr account.
I did take screenshots, I don't know why I did or what good/harm they will do but they are there.
My original email to him was free of overt hostility. I said I had received a contact invitation from this username that was using his email address and it seemed to be full of these pictures. I have not responded to any of the subsequent explanatory emails.
As many of you have identified, I do not know exactly what is going on and therefore cannot go to anyone else with this. Also, as some have mentioned there is a possibility that my mother is aware or deeply suspicious, and I really take to heart the advice provided by Capri and others that my going to her with this would probably not be welcome.
I said in the original post that this would not be an okay/open marriage situation for my mom, I stand by that 100%. She may know and be trying to cope, she may suspect and be in denial. They have a big wedding anniversary coming up and she is very excited about it, which makes this really, really tough.
I am devastated by this. I put my father on a pedestal as an example of who a man should be. I turned to him for guidance for ethical issues as well as practical issues. My image of him as a good, honest, family man and role model has been destroyed and I dont think I will ever be able to rebuild it.
Normally I would agree with those who say "mind your business, it's not my affair". However, it has been shoved into my face, I did not go looking for this, I do not want this responsibility. I feel like saying nothing to anyone is tantamount to endorsing this behaviour and choosing a side against my mother. Going to her, with only this might make things WAY worse. I also am conscious of the advice from Facetious that a confrontational statement might cause him to panic and leave her in the lurch and I do not want that. I cannot involve/discuss this with my spouse, or siblings because that just increases the odds someone will say something.
But again, doing nothing is not really doing nothing. It feels like it's a lie by ommision. I can't just "unsee" this.
I am considering an email along the lines that several of you have mentioned. Something like "Dad, It's really hard not to jump to conclusions after seeing those pictures linked to your email address. Your responses attempting to dismiss this has not made any sense and are only making things worse. If this is as bad as it looks, you are putting my mothers mental and physical health at risk, and you are risking putting your relationships with all of your children beyond salvage. I am not here to monitor or police your relationship with Mom, you two are adults and need to handle things in an honest, respectful, adult manner."
Or maybe just the first part ""Dad, It's really hard not to jump to conclusions after seeing those pictures linked to your email address. Your responses attempting to dismiss this has not made any sense and are only making things worse."
I also agree that it could be porn.
If you still have one of the images you could put it into an image search site. If the image/similar images are found then I think it's safe to say that it is just porn.
That said I too think you should take a step back and keep out of your parents' relationship.
posted by Quack at 12:50 PM on July 24, 2012
If you still have one of the images you could put it into an image search site. If the image/similar images are found then I think it's safe to say that it is just porn.
That said I too think you should take a step back and keep out of your parents' relationship.
posted by Quack at 12:50 PM on July 24, 2012
I like your email. It's honest and simple. Also, beware of doing too much communicating by email. It's so hard to get a clear communication going. Maybe end with "Please give me a call."
I agree saying less is better, but it's fair to bring up the concerns you have about your mother.
And brace yourself. You might be on the receiving end of a confession that is more than you want to hear. Or maybe you'll get stonewalled. It's hard to say; this certainly upsets matters in your family at least a bit, and it may take time to get through it and, hopefully, beyond it again.
posted by Miko at 1:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
I agree saying less is better, but it's fair to bring up the concerns you have about your mother.
And brace yourself. You might be on the receiving end of a confession that is more than you want to hear. Or maybe you'll get stonewalled. It's hard to say; this certainly upsets matters in your family at least a bit, and it may take time to get through it and, hopefully, beyond it again.
posted by Miko at 1:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
Your email is perfect. Send that and put the ball back in your Dad's court where it belongs. I think the second part is equally important as the first and having your say in such a thoughtful way may go a long way towards helping you make peace with this situation, whatever it may be.
posted by katemcd at 1:19 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by katemcd at 1:19 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
Or maybe just the first part ""Dad, It's really hard not to jump to conclusions after seeing those pictures linked to your email address. Your responses attempting to dismiss this has not made any sense and are only making things worse."
I like this version.
In your place, I'd feel like he had done something to our relationship-- his and mine-- first by sending the stuff and then by trying to bullshit about it. Oh, right, he sent it by accident, but he did send it, and to you. (I've had stuff sent to me that was clearly not meant for me, and while intellectually I knew it was an accident, the hurt from it did not feel accidental. Partly, the stuff was there to send.)
I agree with everyone who says talking to your mother could have consequences you'll regret. Whatever you do or don't do, it could play out in ways you don't like. You know, and your father knows you know, unless he is incredibly dumb. I would probably say something to my father but stick to the point of what that has done to our relationship (his and mine), and let the rest play out as it will. Even when you warn someone that their partner is straying, plotting divorce or whatever so that they can protect themselves legally and financially, they rarely do; I doubt whether you can do much constructive on that level.
posted by BibiRose at 1:25 PM on July 24, 2012
OK, but you have to be open to believing what he says in response.
posted by moammargaret at 1:37 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by moammargaret at 1:37 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
If you've got the photos, their EXIF data will include the date/time that the photo was shot, and maybe even the latitude and longitude. If those photos were shot half a world away from where you are, or on a date and time that make it impossible for your father to be there, then that rules out an affair. I would make every effort to rule out an affair before making an accusation, even a veiled one like the one you make in your email.
That said, if you are going to make an accusation, I think your email is a good way to do it.
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:47 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
That said, if you are going to make an accusation, I think your email is a good way to do it.
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:47 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
I still think that getting involved would do much more harm than good.
My opinion would probably be different if you walked in on your dad in bed with someone else. This isn't even close to that scenario.
[What is your dad going to say? "Gosh, now that my adult child has gotten involved, I see the error of my ways as I didn't before. I am going to make things right with my wife by doing x, y, and z"? If only.]
But if you feel as a matter of conscience that you must do something--if you feel you are standing idly by while your mother is hurt--then I respect that, even though I really come down against getting involved.
If you must go to someone, then go to your mother, I suggest. "Ma, I accidentally stumbled upon something that I really didn't want to get involved with. But now that I know, I really reflected on what to do, and my conscience says I have to let you know. Ma, it concerns you and Dad..."
Because if you go to your dad, odds are, he will just lie to you. Then you will have 2 heartaches: one, your parents' relationship is not good, and two, your dad is telling you straight-up lies. (Ask me how I know.)
If you can muster up mercy for your dad--and I understand if you can't--think of it this way. He has probably already made some mistakes. Maybe very big ones. Do you want to put him in a position where 99.9% of regular, decent, otherwise moral people would lie to their own kids?
There is a Jewish ethical principle of not putting a stumbling block before a blind person. Like, don't put a copy of the exam in the student union the night before the final and expect people not to peek. I think confronting your dad and expecting him NOT to lie more is that sort of stumbling block.
Hang in there. It's a horrible feeling, I know.
posted by skbw at 1:47 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
My opinion would probably be different if you walked in on your dad in bed with someone else. This isn't even close to that scenario.
[What is your dad going to say? "Gosh, now that my adult child has gotten involved, I see the error of my ways as I didn't before. I am going to make things right with my wife by doing x, y, and z"? If only.]
But if you feel as a matter of conscience that you must do something--if you feel you are standing idly by while your mother is hurt--then I respect that, even though I really come down against getting involved.
If you must go to someone, then go to your mother, I suggest. "Ma, I accidentally stumbled upon something that I really didn't want to get involved with. But now that I know, I really reflected on what to do, and my conscience says I have to let you know. Ma, it concerns you and Dad..."
Because if you go to your dad, odds are, he will just lie to you. Then you will have 2 heartaches: one, your parents' relationship is not good, and two, your dad is telling you straight-up lies. (Ask me how I know.)
If you can muster up mercy for your dad--and I understand if you can't--think of it this way. He has probably already made some mistakes. Maybe very big ones. Do you want to put him in a position where 99.9% of regular, decent, otherwise moral people would lie to their own kids?
There is a Jewish ethical principle of not putting a stumbling block before a blind person. Like, don't put a copy of the exam in the student union the night before the final and expect people not to peek. I think confronting your dad and expecting him NOT to lie more is that sort of stumbling block.
Hang in there. It's a horrible feeling, I know.
posted by skbw at 1:47 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
This is really none of your business.
posted by ZipRibbons at 2:08 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ZipRibbons at 2:08 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
Once I was involved (in a professional capacity) in a case when man in his 40s committed suicide because of his guilt over having an affair. He was the same as your father a good, honest, family man -- you described him. He just wasn't able to cope with guilty conscience. Later I've seen coldness of his wife when she have learned about her husband death and terrible agony of his lover. At this point of his live his lover had loved him and his wife didn't. If he hadn't been such a good and honest man he would be alive today.
I am writing this to point out those things: 1. never judge other people, even your closest family, based on incomplete information; 2. honest people are having affairs too 3. having an affair does not automatically makes a person FUCKING DOUCHEBAG (again your description of your father), 4. having an affair can be a terrible burden over one's conscience.
Before making decision consider this: Either you have misjudged your father whom you know for many years OR there is some something you don't know and which will make his actions understandable. Which of these is more likely?
posted by przepla at 3:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
I am writing this to point out those things: 1. never judge other people, even your closest family, based on incomplete information; 2. honest people are having affairs too 3. having an affair does not automatically makes a person FUCKING DOUCHEBAG (again your description of your father), 4. having an affair can be a terrible burden over one's conscience.
Before making decision consider this: Either you have misjudged your father whom you know for many years OR there is some something you don't know and which will make his actions understandable. Which of these is more likely?
posted by przepla at 3:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
I love the email you've drafted, and feel that the longer version is clearer, although either is fine.
I understand that you can't unsee this, and that inaction feels like a choice you've made to condone your father's presumptive behavior. But it's also a choice to respect your mother's right to privacy, to respect her ability to understand and make her own choices, and to support her by not undermining her marriage through your actions. Your actions are distinct from your father's actions, and although he may be undermining their marriage by his actions, any steps you take at this point are different steps, your steps. I think that you can choose to not act and through that choice choose to not harm their marriage. Can you see it that way? Can you untangle your knowledge from your acts? If so, that may be the best way to decide to not act.
As far as the loss you're suffering -- the loss of respect for your father -- I am deeply sorry for that. It's such an awful rite of passage to go through. Most people, no matter how honorable, have at times committed genuinely bad acts that violate their own best-held sense of propriety. I believe it was Nancy Reagan who said that the true diary of even the most virtuous person in the world would shock. (Maybe it was Marilyn Monroe. I always mix those two up.) Your father may have violated his own values, or he may have a truly good excuse, or he may have done none of these things at all. But whatever good he does in the rest of his life is still good. It is not undercut by this act.
My best wishes in getting through this. Please find a way to reach out to someone if you need to talk about this, even if you can't tell anyone who knows your parents. That's what the world wide web is best at.
posted by Capri at 4:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
I understand that you can't unsee this, and that inaction feels like a choice you've made to condone your father's presumptive behavior. But it's also a choice to respect your mother's right to privacy, to respect her ability to understand and make her own choices, and to support her by not undermining her marriage through your actions. Your actions are distinct from your father's actions, and although he may be undermining their marriage by his actions, any steps you take at this point are different steps, your steps. I think that you can choose to not act and through that choice choose to not harm their marriage. Can you see it that way? Can you untangle your knowledge from your acts? If so, that may be the best way to decide to not act.
As far as the loss you're suffering -- the loss of respect for your father -- I am deeply sorry for that. It's such an awful rite of passage to go through. Most people, no matter how honorable, have at times committed genuinely bad acts that violate their own best-held sense of propriety. I believe it was Nancy Reagan who said that the true diary of even the most virtuous person in the world would shock. (Maybe it was Marilyn Monroe. I always mix those two up.) Your father may have violated his own values, or he may have a truly good excuse, or he may have done none of these things at all. But whatever good he does in the rest of his life is still good. It is not undercut by this act.
My best wishes in getting through this. Please find a way to reach out to someone if you need to talk about this, even if you can't tell anyone who knows your parents. That's what the world wide web is best at.
posted by Capri at 4:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]
People--especially people that you love which I'm going to assume is how you feel about your dad--deserve to be considered innocent until proven guilty. You shouldn't be "shaking with rage" over something you aren't even sure happened. Please step back, take a deep breath, and however you choose to proceed, do it so as to avoid potentially accusing an innocent person. Give your father the benefit of the doubt, fully, until and unless he has proven he doesn't deserve it.
If you continue with the righteous indignation before even finding out what really happened, YOU will be the one being unethical and causing damage to your relationship with your father.
Source: personal experience of having been falsely accused of cheating by a jealous partner.
posted by parrot_person at 5:08 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you continue with the righteous indignation before even finding out what really happened, YOU will be the one being unethical and causing damage to your relationship with your father.
Source: personal experience of having been falsely accused of cheating by a jealous partner.
posted by parrot_person at 5:08 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm just thinking about what will happen after the you send the email.
He calls you... he fumbles over the same excuses... you continue to not believe him... then what? He comes clean with you? How will that help you? You'll still know whats up (in fact you'll be 100% sure) and then you have this total proof ... if you don't go to your Mum and she finds out later you knew, that might not go so well. If you do go to her, some of the above examples show how well that can end.
I don't see an outcome from this that ends with things better than the "mind your own business" method, as difficult as that is. In fact I think they could be significantly worse for all concerned.
Easy to say of course. I'm putting myself in that situation and having that semi suspicion and not resolving it would be nearly impossible. Just think through what you want from that email/phone call with your Dad and go from there. You want him to admit his guilt? You want him to know you don't believe him (he knows this already). You want to threaten to go to your Mum with the information?
posted by Admira at 5:10 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
He calls you... he fumbles over the same excuses... you continue to not believe him... then what? He comes clean with you? How will that help you? You'll still know whats up (in fact you'll be 100% sure) and then you have this total proof ... if you don't go to your Mum and she finds out later you knew, that might not go so well. If you do go to her, some of the above examples show how well that can end.
I don't see an outcome from this that ends with things better than the "mind your own business" method, as difficult as that is. In fact I think they could be significantly worse for all concerned.
Easy to say of course. I'm putting myself in that situation and having that semi suspicion and not resolving it would be nearly impossible. Just think through what you want from that email/phone call with your Dad and go from there. You want him to admit his guilt? You want him to know you don't believe him (he knows this already). You want to threaten to go to your Mum with the information?
posted by Admira at 5:10 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]
I personally would not want to be having a conversation with my Mum down the track that involved her saying "You knew all along and never told me? How could you let this go on for months/years/etc".
posted by peppermintfreddo at 6:13 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by peppermintfreddo at 6:13 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]
The people around you - even the people you put up on pedestals - are just people. Flawed people, complex people, people with different sides to them, people with secrets, people will longings, people with regrets, people who make mistakes, people just trying to survive, very complex people.
I am still trying to learn this and also deal with it in the best possible way for me.
Also, you will never know anyone 100%. You don't know your father 100% and you don't know your mother 100%. You don't know their relationship 100%.
I would say that it would be worse to destroy your mother's happiness about their upcoming anniversary than anything else. You might think - but it's based on lies! Well, not necessarily. Keep in mind that sex and love are two different things. And it's not your place to destroy your mother's happiness. He knows you know - ball is in his court as to how this proceeds now.
posted by heyjude at 6:23 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
I am still trying to learn this and also deal with it in the best possible way for me.
Also, you will never know anyone 100%. You don't know your father 100% and you don't know your mother 100%. You don't know their relationship 100%.
I would say that it would be worse to destroy your mother's happiness about their upcoming anniversary than anything else. You might think - but it's based on lies! Well, not necessarily. Keep in mind that sex and love are two different things. And it's not your place to destroy your mother's happiness. He knows you know - ball is in his court as to how this proceeds now.
posted by heyjude at 6:23 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
I put my father on a pedestal as an example of who a man should be. I turned to him for guidance for ethical issues as well as practical issues. My image of him as a good, honest, family man and role model has been destroyed and I dont think I will ever be able to rebuild it.
Your father raised you with high ideals, and may not have fully lived up to them himself. Is forgiveness really not possible?
I feel like saying nothing to anyone is tantamount to endorsing this behaviour and choosing a side against my mother. Going to her, with only this might make things WAY worse.
It doesn't seem like you've completely decided whether you will tell your mother anything about it, yet. Would it make sense to assure your father you will not tell her anything without first notifying him--if you're concerned he may panic and leave her in the lurch?
OK, but you have to be open to believing what he says in response.
As you don't trust what your father has already told you, its already possibly crossing a boundary, and a further confession might leave you in an even worse situation with your mother, maybe it's also best not to go into any more detail about what actually was going on.
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:25 PM on July 24, 2012
Your father raised you with high ideals, and may not have fully lived up to them himself. Is forgiveness really not possible?
I feel like saying nothing to anyone is tantamount to endorsing this behaviour and choosing a side against my mother. Going to her, with only this might make things WAY worse.
It doesn't seem like you've completely decided whether you will tell your mother anything about it, yet. Would it make sense to assure your father you will not tell her anything without first notifying him--if you're concerned he may panic and leave her in the lurch?
OK, but you have to be open to believing what he says in response.
As you don't trust what your father has already told you, its already possibly crossing a boundary, and a further confession might leave you in an even worse situation with your mother, maybe it's also best not to go into any more detail about what actually was going on.
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:25 PM on July 24, 2012
You think the woman in the photos may be his assistant -- the one with access to his email accounts and contacts? Can you be sure this invitation was sent to you by accident?
Yes, your father could be having (or have had) an affair. Please call (rather than email) him anyway because he actually may be in trouble.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:30 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, your father could be having (or have had) an affair. Please call (rather than email) him anyway because he actually may be in trouble.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:30 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]
i think you should mostly butt out. it's not your business. that said, you aren't under any obligation to stay in the closet with him. i think this is essentially what you need to tell him.
if/when you tell someone else i suggest not bringing the subject up unless this information is relevant. not because you should keep a secret but it's not polite to dump this kind of stuff onto people who are not your super close friends. but if you do, don't say your conclusion, but just the facts: you saw these pictures that were a certain nature.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:12 PM on July 24, 2012
if/when you tell someone else i suggest not bringing the subject up unless this information is relevant. not because you should keep a secret but it's not polite to dump this kind of stuff onto people who are not your super close friends. but if you do, don't say your conclusion, but just the facts: you saw these pictures that were a certain nature.
posted by cupcake1337 at 8:12 PM on July 24, 2012
You know, I don't love a blanket statement but I feel confident asserting that your parents' sex life is categorically none of your business. I'm sorry you got caught up in this, and I empathize with how difficult it is to see a role model behaving badly - but by definition you can't have full information on this and it's not your problem to solve.
For everyone's sake, let it go.
posted by Space Kitty at 9:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
For everyone's sake, let it go.
posted by Space Kitty at 9:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]
The split in this thread is distressing and puzzling.
I also had my father on a pedestal. He was universally perceived as a "Good Guy." Still is. He also had affairs. He also turned a blind eye of sorts towards our mom as she slipped deeper into mental illness. They divorced when I was 20. I'm 42 now.
The last time I spoke with my father I was 38. The conversation went as follows. FWIW, both of my parents are very attractive. My father has been happily remarried for the past 14 years...
This conversation takes place after my dad flies up to NY to see my brother's first son, my dad's first grandchild.
Him (repeating this horrid joke 3x's in the conversation): "You know, your mother has not remarried. I guess she couldn't find anyone as good as me in all these years!"
This is not even funny, and totally uncharacteristic for him to say out loud. Upon reflection, I don't think it was uncharacteristic of him to express weird guilt mixed with self-pride.
Me (upon 3rd repetition of that bad joke): "Y'know, you cheated on her and she's mentally ill - I doubt that is easy to bounce back from."
Him: CLICK.
No, really. He hung up on me.
He did phone back almost immediately, and when I expressed that no one begrudges his happy marriage now, but that it is unkind to make fun of his ex-wife (my mom)... he became flustered and hung up on me again.
This was the last time we spoke.
I'm SO fine with it.
----
The back story there is that I had just married the wonderful Mr. jbenben, my father had not met him yet because we live a 6 hour plane ride away... but I kinda expected that my husband (who is genuine, and genuinely loves me) could not co-exist in my father's world alongside me. My father makes a show of being that "Good Guy," but in every way - it's an act. My dad dumped me because I am now with someone that would have thrown all of his lies and half-assed gestures towards me into a much different light.
I'm glad I took a stand about the cheating. I'm 300% OK that speaking TRUTH made it possible to drop the charade concerning my father that I had been going along with for so so long.
I'm happier now. TRUTH IS GOOD.
-------
OP, how old are you? What is your father's conduct really like??
My experience is not necessarily your experience, but I get where you are coming from.
I disagree with any idea that you can somehow ignore this, or that cheating in this way doesn't throw your father into a different light for you.
I'm sorry. I know it is shocking. I know.
--------
Ignore your father entirely until after the big wedding anniversary. Cold shoulder. Do and say nothing. Be awesome towards your mom.
Once the social stuff is out of the way, inform him you have screen shots and you will be sharing the existence of such with your mother, unless he comes clean.
----
If you keep this secret, it is one that will slowly kill you. I advise against bearing the brunt and burden of his dishonesty. I DO advise throwing the ball squarely into his court, and allowing him to deal with it.
-----
My advice is do not be a party to dishonesty. Do be kind. And honest. That is the best way.
PS. Your mom will be fine in a divorce if she was a stay-at-home mom. She deserves the truth, and to be with someone who is faithful to her.
posted by jbenben at 1:14 AM on July 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
I also had my father on a pedestal. He was universally perceived as a "Good Guy." Still is. He also had affairs. He also turned a blind eye of sorts towards our mom as she slipped deeper into mental illness. They divorced when I was 20. I'm 42 now.
The last time I spoke with my father I was 38. The conversation went as follows. FWIW, both of my parents are very attractive. My father has been happily remarried for the past 14 years...
This conversation takes place after my dad flies up to NY to see my brother's first son, my dad's first grandchild.
Him (repeating this horrid joke 3x's in the conversation): "You know, your mother has not remarried. I guess she couldn't find anyone as good as me in all these years!"
This is not even funny, and totally uncharacteristic for him to say out loud. Upon reflection, I don't think it was uncharacteristic of him to express weird guilt mixed with self-pride.
Me (upon 3rd repetition of that bad joke): "Y'know, you cheated on her and she's mentally ill - I doubt that is easy to bounce back from."
Him: CLICK.
No, really. He hung up on me.
He did phone back almost immediately, and when I expressed that no one begrudges his happy marriage now, but that it is unkind to make fun of his ex-wife (my mom)... he became flustered and hung up on me again.
This was the last time we spoke.
I'm SO fine with it.
----
The back story there is that I had just married the wonderful Mr. jbenben, my father had not met him yet because we live a 6 hour plane ride away... but I kinda expected that my husband (who is genuine, and genuinely loves me) could not co-exist in my father's world alongside me. My father makes a show of being that "Good Guy," but in every way - it's an act. My dad dumped me because I am now with someone that would have thrown all of his lies and half-assed gestures towards me into a much different light.
I'm glad I took a stand about the cheating. I'm 300% OK that speaking TRUTH made it possible to drop the charade concerning my father that I had been going along with for so so long.
I'm happier now. TRUTH IS GOOD.
-------
OP, how old are you? What is your father's conduct really like??
My experience is not necessarily your experience, but I get where you are coming from.
I disagree with any idea that you can somehow ignore this, or that cheating in this way doesn't throw your father into a different light for you.
I'm sorry. I know it is shocking. I know.
--------
Ignore your father entirely until after the big wedding anniversary. Cold shoulder. Do and say nothing. Be awesome towards your mom.
Once the social stuff is out of the way, inform him you have screen shots and you will be sharing the existence of such with your mother, unless he comes clean.
----
If you keep this secret, it is one that will slowly kill you. I advise against bearing the brunt and burden of his dishonesty. I DO advise throwing the ball squarely into his court, and allowing him to deal with it.
-----
My advice is do not be a party to dishonesty. Do be kind. And honest. That is the best way.
PS. Your mom will be fine in a divorce if she was a stay-at-home mom. She deserves the truth, and to be with someone who is faithful to her.
posted by jbenben at 1:14 AM on July 25, 2012 [5 favorites]
OP, I guess what I am trying to tell you is that these two incidents (one you describe. one you allude to) signal a major game change in your relationship with your parents.
I included my direct experience, because, it was difficult to boil down into a comment otherwise.
Cheaters don't like to be outed or confronted - even if it is 20 years after the fact. Apparently, people who cheat have an intricate web of justifications going on in their heads - pointing a finger and calling a spade a spade can result in some interesting reactions. You need to keep this in mind as you move forward.
I wish you the best, as I know this is not easy.
posted by jbenben at 1:43 AM on July 25, 2012
I included my direct experience, because, it was difficult to boil down into a comment otherwise.
Cheaters don't like to be outed or confronted - even if it is 20 years after the fact. Apparently, people who cheat have an intricate web of justifications going on in their heads - pointing a finger and calling a spade a spade can result in some interesting reactions. You need to keep this in mind as you move forward.
I wish you the best, as I know this is not easy.
posted by jbenben at 1:43 AM on July 25, 2012
I've been struggling with this myself. Last year, I found condoms hidden in my dad's shoe as I was helping him unpack from a trip to a con-type event abroad. He had a vasectomy after I was born. I'm not sure if he saw that I saw them.
Like you, I had evidence, but far from proof, that he had cheated while on the trip (or wanted/planned to). I reserve the right to bring it up to him any time, but I haven't yet, and I've been working to put it away in a corner of my mind. Not to forget, or pretend I don't have this information, but to separate it from my relationship with him and how we all interact as a family.
My thinking, at the moment, includes the following:
-- If my mom had found this in my imaginary husband's bag, my gut feeling is that she would not bring it up to either him or me. She would watch, and worry, and hope for the best for me, but ultimately believe that our privacy is ours alone. I'm sure if I later told her I was divorcing him, she would reveal it, but I can only aim try to treat her how I think she would treat me.
-- If having the urge to cheat is part of who my father is, it was part of who he was before the trip and will be part of who he is no matter what kind of confrontation I might have with him, or my mom. It would be naive to think that I could have any effect on the urge. He will always have opportunity.
-- Perhaps the most positive outcome of this is a lesson for me, that we all are human, which means that we all are flawed. My parents have been married for many decades and my father has been more caring, selfless, and generous to my mother than not by a long long long shot, and much more honest than he has been secretive. This can't be the only problem that has emerged in their relationship, nor is it probably the worst. For all I know, it is a solution. It's certainly not about me.
-- If I confront either of them, that is toothpaste I can't put back in the tube. Right now I have the option to raise it later on if long careful thought makes me conclude that that is the right decision... but if I act in some way now, I can never take it back even if I later wish I had. So, prudence seems like the optimal approach.
I am very sorry that you are in this situation, and I wish you luck in sorting it out for yourself. Feel free to memail me if you'd like to chat directly.
posted by argonauta at 5:38 AM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Like you, I had evidence, but far from proof, that he had cheated while on the trip (or wanted/planned to). I reserve the right to bring it up to him any time, but I haven't yet, and I've been working to put it away in a corner of my mind. Not to forget, or pretend I don't have this information, but to separate it from my relationship with him and how we all interact as a family.
My thinking, at the moment, includes the following:
-- If my mom had found this in my imaginary husband's bag, my gut feeling is that she would not bring it up to either him or me. She would watch, and worry, and hope for the best for me, but ultimately believe that our privacy is ours alone. I'm sure if I later told her I was divorcing him, she would reveal it, but I can only aim try to treat her how I think she would treat me.
-- If having the urge to cheat is part of who my father is, it was part of who he was before the trip and will be part of who he is no matter what kind of confrontation I might have with him, or my mom. It would be naive to think that I could have any effect on the urge. He will always have opportunity.
-- Perhaps the most positive outcome of this is a lesson for me, that we all are human, which means that we all are flawed. My parents have been married for many decades and my father has been more caring, selfless, and generous to my mother than not by a long long long shot, and much more honest than he has been secretive. This can't be the only problem that has emerged in their relationship, nor is it probably the worst. For all I know, it is a solution. It's certainly not about me.
-- If I confront either of them, that is toothpaste I can't put back in the tube. Right now I have the option to raise it later on if long careful thought makes me conclude that that is the right decision... but if I act in some way now, I can never take it back even if I later wish I had. So, prudence seems like the optimal approach.
I am very sorry that you are in this situation, and I wish you luck in sorting it out for yourself. Feel free to memail me if you'd like to chat directly.
posted by argonauta at 5:38 AM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]
Here's another angle I don't see mentioned explicitly.
Your desire to protect or help your mother is perfectly understandable and shows you're a loving, moral person.
But your mother may not want your protection or help. She is an adult and not an ordinary peer--she is your mother.
Your mother may vary, of course. But don't assume she wants your assistance even if she surely would take an interest in the info. This goes for other things, too, not just private sex things.
Plenty of parents don't even want their kids to take a protective role when the parents are in the NURSING HOME about to head out.
Think about that before you get further involved.
posted by skbw at 6:48 AM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Your desire to protect or help your mother is perfectly understandable and shows you're a loving, moral person.
But your mother may not want your protection or help. She is an adult and not an ordinary peer--she is your mother.
Your mother may vary, of course. But don't assume she wants your assistance even if she surely would take an interest in the info. This goes for other things, too, not just private sex things.
Plenty of parents don't even want their kids to take a protective role when the parents are in the NURSING HOME about to head out.
Think about that before you get further involved.
posted by skbw at 6:48 AM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
Thank you all again for all comments and advice. I still have not done anything, and still have not made a firm decision on what to do. As has been mentioned already, there are no good answers for me in this.posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:57 PM on July 26, 2012 [3 favorites]
I find myself nodding in agreement at points both sides have made. On the "do nothing" side, is the advice that if I confront Dad and make an accusation then I'm most likely going to force him into lying again, or receive a confession that I really don't want to hear.
However, I cannot seem to accept the idea that doing nothing does not make me guilty of deceiving my Mom by ommission. As one poster mentioned, I don't want to have the conversation with her where she says "I had no idea, how could you let me be humiliated". I also find myself really agreeing that this is something that will slowly eat away at me if I try to forget it happened, it will sit in my guts and stew. I will not be able to relate to my father the same way in front of my mother; I won't be able to look my Mom in the eyes either if I'm sitting on something this devastating. How do I visit at Christmas and sit at the table with both of them if I do nothing? How will I see myself in the mirror if I do nothing and allow her to be harmed?
I do understand the bit about respecting Mom's privacy, how awkward it would be to be shown something like this by your child, etc. I think it would resonate more though if my question was "I suspect this, should I investigate?" rather than "I found this, do I keep it to myself?"
So, as far as my options go;
I can do nothing, which feels like sticking my head in the sand and will be a decision that devastates me if this all goes south. However, it is potentially the safest short term option but the most harmful long-term one. (again, I do get the not my business aspect... but this has been shoved into my face unasked for)
I can tell Mom I found these pictures, and say nothing more. I can email her the screenshots and not editorialize on what I think they are.
I can send the email to Dad, maybe frame it a little less accusatory... something along the lines of "I don't know what those pictures were about, they look really bad. Your responses don't make sense and make things seem worse. Whatever this is, you need to end it and smarten up before you put Mom's health in danger and irrevocably damage the relationship you have with all your children. You've put me in an unbelievably difficult situation. I have no desire to get involved in your marriage to Mom, I cannot and will not deceive her"
Again, I could do something shorter like "I don't know what those pictures were about, they look really bad. Your responses don't make sense and make things seem worse. You've put me in an unbelievably difficult situation."
It's silly, but a small, naive part of me really really wishes it was as simple as sending a strongly worded email pointing out the error of his ways
In any case, I have decided not to do anything this week at least. I plan on continuing to ignore any attempts at correspondance from him. Since a super-clear answer isn't emerging, maybe letting him sweat and stress about what I'm going to do will cause him to come clean with whatever it is to my Mom. I feel horrible for thinking that, but it would absolve me of any overt involvement.
Thank you all for listening, and for the advice and kind thoughts; and sorry if I'm beating this to death. It's constantly churning in my head and it really helps just to put it in words on the screen.
It may be worth picking up the phone to talk to someone about this - it's a knotty problem. I don't know if you have a counselor or clergy or anyone currently available in your life who would be good to talk to and have some wise advice about how you personally can handle it, but you're right that you're going to get as many personal takes on this as there are people, and probably need to find your own solution. Doing nothing until you feel you have identified the right path is probably a smart idea.
posted by Miko at 8:22 PM on July 30, 2012
posted by Miko at 8:22 PM on July 30, 2012
Well, I'm coming back to re-comment for the "benefit" of future readers. My comments above, based on, shall we say, quality anecdata, all come down on the side of leaving it alone. Basically I still agree with this--not the kids' business short of an actual smoking gun.
Now. My mother is the most hardcore person imaginable. Suspicious, smart, aggressive, cynical, all those traits that nice Southern women are not supposed to have. My mother is into everything. Anybody who fucks with Mom is fucking with the wrong person.
Turns out my dad had been fooling around on her for a number of years. We all knew that something was wrong...the whole family, me, Mom, his relatives, her relatives, all knew it. But we didn't know what was wrong. We misdiagnosed all of his screwing around behaviors as part of another problem. Of course I suspected that gee, among all his other problems, maybe he's also having an affair. But I had no evidence, strong or weak, for this. I assumed that Mom, being maximally hardcore, also suspected. Probably, on some level, she did.
Recently, in what for us was a conversation of major 100% intimacy, since we just aren't close that way, I asked her what made it possible for her to look the other way all those years. She swears, I mean swears, that she didn't know, had no idea. This is not some shrinking violet. This is my mother.
(Armchair psychologist says that obviously she was looking the other way on a much deeper level...but she wasn't consciously deciding to "ignore the signs" as part of some implicit compromise or arrangement or anything like that. Consciously she just didn't know.)
Now. Looking back, if I had come across anything untoward, like, say, a photo site as in OP's scenario, I probably would have gone to my mother even THOUGH I think it's better, on principle, to stay out of it. But. I can bet I would have prefaced it by saying, "Ma, this kills me, but you're a woman who knows what's up, so I'm sure you already know what I'm about to tell you."
In reality, though, she wouldn't have known! Wouldn't have known about the photo site or the chickadee or anything of the kind! Would have been news to her!
Food for thought...
posted by skbw at 8:29 AM on April 13, 2013
Now. My mother is the most hardcore person imaginable. Suspicious, smart, aggressive, cynical, all those traits that nice Southern women are not supposed to have. My mother is into everything. Anybody who fucks with Mom is fucking with the wrong person.
Turns out my dad had been fooling around on her for a number of years. We all knew that something was wrong...the whole family, me, Mom, his relatives, her relatives, all knew it. But we didn't know what was wrong. We misdiagnosed all of his screwing around behaviors as part of another problem. Of course I suspected that gee, among all his other problems, maybe he's also having an affair. But I had no evidence, strong or weak, for this. I assumed that Mom, being maximally hardcore, also suspected. Probably, on some level, she did.
Recently, in what for us was a conversation of major 100% intimacy, since we just aren't close that way, I asked her what made it possible for her to look the other way all those years. She swears, I mean swears, that she didn't know, had no idea. This is not some shrinking violet. This is my mother.
(Armchair psychologist says that obviously she was looking the other way on a much deeper level...but she wasn't consciously deciding to "ignore the signs" as part of some implicit compromise or arrangement or anything like that. Consciously she just didn't know.)
Now. Looking back, if I had come across anything untoward, like, say, a photo site as in OP's scenario, I probably would have gone to my mother even THOUGH I think it's better, on principle, to stay out of it. But. I can bet I would have prefaced it by saying, "Ma, this kills me, but you're a woman who knows what's up, so I'm sure you already know what I'm about to tell you."
In reality, though, she wouldn't have known! Wouldn't have known about the photo site or the chickadee or anything of the kind! Would have been news to her!
Food for thought...
posted by skbw at 8:29 AM on April 13, 2013
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You can call him up and say this to him.
You need to be there for your mom, of course. So definitely stick your nose in and let your dad know that he's let you down and he needs to shape up.
posted by discopolo at 9:30 AM on July 24, 2012