Blow This!
February 17, 2009 6:51 PM Subscribe
I love an early morning walk with my two dogs, it’s quite, cool and apart from me, the dogs and a very few others- I am alone for a brief hour- it has become a very important ritual for me.
I take the dogs to a large “off leash” reserve where we can have a good long walk, I get some time to be alone and think before the busy day and teh dogs get a good walk. Timing is important- any later and the park is quite full- plus I need to be home to get the kids off to school and me off to work- any earlier and it’s dark.
In the last weeks there has been an interloper who is ruining my mornings, and in kinder moments I refer to her as the Whistling Lady.
She has a loud whistle that she repeatedly and loudly blows as she marches along, as in hup two three four TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET - hup two three four TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET hup two... ad fucking nauseam.
I’m no shrinking violet in these matters, and when someone is doing something that I find annoying I will either leave the scene or confront the annoyance- so in an attempt to rescue the situation, I heartily bailed up the Whistling Lady and cheerily bade her good morning- I then very politely asked her if she could moderate the whistling.
Well no, she can’t. She needs her dogs to be aware of where she is at all times, and it’s a public park and she can do what she wants- and who am I to be telling people what to do- then she was off, hup two three four.
Now it seems that I have exacerbated the situation. She now whistles almost constantly and very loudly (almost like warning or emergency) when she sees me or my dogs- she’s made my morning walk untenable. I was polite when I raised the issue with her, but she’s taken that as some declaration of war.
There are numerous reasons why I don’t want to change where or what time I walk, wear mp3 player etc- and fuck it, I shouldn’t have to. This is anti social behaviour dressed up as a girl guides leader.
What to do? I obviously have no problems in sharing the park, I don’t even mind the odd whistle now and again- but a long blast of a whistle every five seconds for an hour is ridiculous.
How can I get her to stop?
I take the dogs to a large “off leash” reserve where we can have a good long walk, I get some time to be alone and think before the busy day and teh dogs get a good walk. Timing is important- any later and the park is quite full- plus I need to be home to get the kids off to school and me off to work- any earlier and it’s dark.
In the last weeks there has been an interloper who is ruining my mornings, and in kinder moments I refer to her as the Whistling Lady.
She has a loud whistle that she repeatedly and loudly blows as she marches along, as in hup two three four TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET - hup two three four TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET hup two... ad fucking nauseam.
I’m no shrinking violet in these matters, and when someone is doing something that I find annoying I will either leave the scene or confront the annoyance- so in an attempt to rescue the situation, I heartily bailed up the Whistling Lady and cheerily bade her good morning- I then very politely asked her if she could moderate the whistling.
Well no, she can’t. She needs her dogs to be aware of where she is at all times, and it’s a public park and she can do what she wants- and who am I to be telling people what to do- then she was off, hup two three four.
Now it seems that I have exacerbated the situation. She now whistles almost constantly and very loudly (almost like warning or emergency) when she sees me or my dogs- she’s made my morning walk untenable. I was polite when I raised the issue with her, but she’s taken that as some declaration of war.
There are numerous reasons why I don’t want to change where or what time I walk, wear mp3 player etc- and fuck it, I shouldn’t have to. This is anti social behaviour dressed up as a girl guides leader.
What to do? I obviously have no problems in sharing the park, I don’t even mind the odd whistle now and again- but a long blast of a whistle every five seconds for an hour is ridiculous.
How can I get her to stop?
@Parmanparman: He did.
I say be an ass. If this park is secluded enough (i.e., away from residential areas), bring a little horn and blow it every time she whistles. It will either annoy her enough to catch a hint and moderate herself or will annoy her to the point that she finds somewhere else to walk her dogs. You'll have a fun plus of probably confusing her dogs. I'm guessing you'd not have to do this long, a few days maybe.
If she bitches, tell her that you'll be happy to stop and respect her if she shows a little respect as well. If she doesn't, you'll just keep doing it.
Generally, I don't suggest anything like this, but I truly believe that there are some people that only understand equal treatment, in the form that they give it. She's being silly.
You also have the option of wearing earplugs, if you don't want to be a complete ass. However, depending on where you live, and if you need to be concerned about any early-morning crazies in the park, it might not be safe to take away your ability to hear.
posted by metalheart at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
I say be an ass. If this park is secluded enough (i.e., away from residential areas), bring a little horn and blow it every time she whistles. It will either annoy her enough to catch a hint and moderate herself or will annoy her to the point that she finds somewhere else to walk her dogs. You'll have a fun plus of probably confusing her dogs. I'm guessing you'd not have to do this long, a few days maybe.
If she bitches, tell her that you'll be happy to stop and respect her if she shows a little respect as well. If she doesn't, you'll just keep doing it.
Generally, I don't suggest anything like this, but I truly believe that there are some people that only understand equal treatment, in the form that they give it. She's being silly.
You also have the option of wearing earplugs, if you don't want to be a complete ass. However, depending on where you live, and if you need to be concerned about any early-morning crazies in the park, it might not be safe to take away your ability to hear.
posted by metalheart at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Get an air horn and follow behind her?
Is it a city park? Possibly the neighbors around the park are annoyed about the whistling? Maybe one of them will call in a noise complaint.
posted by ian1977 at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2009
Is it a city park? Possibly the neighbors around the park are annoyed about the whistling? Maybe one of them will call in a noise complaint.
posted by ian1977 at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2009
There are sound pollution laws; you could call the police.
posted by metastability at 7:03 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by metastability at 7:03 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
You need to make her aware of the fact that she's acting like a 5 year old and, just like with 5 year olds, resolve it in a manner that lets her save face.
To get her attention, you could get a whistle like hers (just like hers) and blow it every time she does; when she complains that her dogs will get confused ... suggest a silent dog whistle instead?
posted by 5MeoCMP at 7:06 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
To get her attention, you could get a whistle like hers (just like hers) and blow it every time she does; when she complains that her dogs will get confused ... suggest a silent dog whistle instead?
posted by 5MeoCMP at 7:06 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'd do what metalheart says. Some people are just self-entitled, well, assholes. Do something to annoy her and make it plain that you're annoying her because she's annoying you.
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:07 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:07 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
You could try talking to her about it again -- although it doesn't sound like that will do much good. You could escalate, go to war with her and try to be as obnoxious in return and see if she backs down, but I'm guessing all that will do is turn what is currently still possibly your morning sanctuary into another huge stressor. I'm guessing you really don't want that.
You're right, you shouldn't have to change parks or wear an MP3 player, but getting exactly what you want requires the cooperation of what appears to be a slightly crazy person, which is completely outside of your control. That way lays frustration and bitterness, and you are extremely unlikely to yield the results you want.
I personally find a morning walk goes from pleasant to blissful when I'm listening to the right music. If music is in and of itself is too distracting, you could look into listening to a CD of nature sound effects, even if that seems a little bonkers.
I'm also guessing she'll probably tone her antics down a bit once you start completely ignoring her. If you keep engaging her, it will probably get worse.
I'm sorry that there is a jerk ruining your morning walk. I think if you do your best to not let her, you'll be much happier in the long run.
posted by pazazygeek at 7:09 PM on February 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
You're right, you shouldn't have to change parks or wear an MP3 player, but getting exactly what you want requires the cooperation of what appears to be a slightly crazy person, which is completely outside of your control. That way lays frustration and bitterness, and you are extremely unlikely to yield the results you want.
I personally find a morning walk goes from pleasant to blissful when I'm listening to the right music. If music is in and of itself is too distracting, you could look into listening to a CD of nature sound effects, even if that seems a little bonkers.
I'm also guessing she'll probably tone her antics down a bit once you start completely ignoring her. If you keep engaging her, it will probably get worse.
I'm sorry that there is a jerk ruining your morning walk. I think if you do your best to not let her, you'll be much happier in the long run.
posted by pazazygeek at 7:09 PM on February 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
a long blast of a whistle every five seconds for an hour is ridiculous
Agreed. If it is a public park, couldn't it be construed as a public nuisance? Maybe look into the local laws on noise pollution, and go that route? I doubt you could get away with that kind of behavior in most parks around where I live, no matter what time of day. Also, are you totally alone with her on a normal day? Any way you could ask one of the other regulars (if there are any) to work with you on it?
posted by gemmy at 7:10 PM on February 17, 2009
Agreed. If it is a public park, couldn't it be construed as a public nuisance? Maybe look into the local laws on noise pollution, and go that route? I doubt you could get away with that kind of behavior in most parks around where I live, no matter what time of day. Also, are you totally alone with her on a normal day? Any way you could ask one of the other regulars (if there are any) to work with you on it?
posted by gemmy at 7:10 PM on February 17, 2009
Don't call the police. That would make you look like a crazy person, despite the fact that this woman's behaviour is antisocial and annoying. Seconding "give her a silent whistle and some dog biscuits".
Oh, and if that doesn't work, try yelling "SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!" at the top of your lungs whenever she blows the whistle. You have just as much of a right to do that as she does to whistle her ass off.
posted by tehloki at 7:24 PM on February 17, 2009
Oh, and if that doesn't work, try yelling "SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!" at the top of your lungs whenever she blows the whistle. You have just as much of a right to do that as she does to whistle her ass off.
posted by tehloki at 7:24 PM on February 17, 2009
She isn't an "interloper", she's a fellow resident utilizing the park.
You have to share the park. Sometimes public resources can come with annoyances. Conditions won't be perfect, but if you want to use it, you need to accept that.
and it’s a public park and she can do what she wants
She's right. Basically, ignore her. Suck it up and deal.
You want to be picky and not use an mp3 player, not modify your time of walk, not change a single darn thing but expect her to cater to you? Then you will continue to be annoyed. Try some soft music or white noise mp3s.
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:24 PM on February 17, 2009 [15 favorites]
You have to share the park. Sometimes public resources can come with annoyances. Conditions won't be perfect, but if you want to use it, you need to accept that.
and it’s a public park and she can do what she wants
She's right. Basically, ignore her. Suck it up and deal.
You want to be picky and not use an mp3 player, not modify your time of walk, not change a single darn thing but expect her to cater to you? Then you will continue to be annoyed. Try some soft music or white noise mp3s.
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:24 PM on February 17, 2009 [15 favorites]
(Basically, you're being just as stubborn as she is.)
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:25 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:25 PM on February 17, 2009
"Can you perhaps buy her one of those silent dog whistles (for example) and bring her that, a box of Good Buddy dog biscuits and another hearty bail up?"
I really like this idea. It offers her an alternative that has no downsides for her.
posted by QuarterlyProphet at 7:27 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I really like this idea. It offers her an alternative that has no downsides for her.
posted by QuarterlyProphet at 7:27 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
cmgonzales, your staments fall apart when you consider that he's not actively doing anything to annoy this woman. Pretending this isn't happening is a bad idea. It never pays to let people walk all over you.
posted by tehloki at 7:29 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by tehloki at 7:29 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
There's off-leash, and then there's off-leash. If her dogs are so far afield that she needs to constantly whistle, then they're too far afield. That's fucking ridiculous.
Try the silent whistle. If that doesn't work, or she refuses, then get the same brand whistle as hers, and make sure you're always on the other side of her dogs from her when you whistle. They'll be confused, effectively rendering her whistling useless.
If that doesn't work, key her car.
posted by notsnot at 7:31 PM on February 17, 2009 [7 favorites]
Try the silent whistle. If that doesn't work, or she refuses, then get the same brand whistle as hers, and make sure you're always on the other side of her dogs from her when you whistle. They'll be confused, effectively rendering her whistling useless.
If that doesn't work, key her car.
posted by notsnot at 7:31 PM on February 17, 2009 [7 favorites]
My statements don't fall apart.
He's being aggressive in calling her an "interloper", he's expecting her to change her behavior or method, when he doesn't want to change a darn thing. He won't do anything to improve the situation. If he, say, went at a different time, or used an mp3 player, etc, the problem would be solved or assuaged. He has the power in his hands to improve the situation by giving in a little and compromising. But he's being just as stubborn. I also said ignore her. When people don't get a rise out of you, they tend to back off or get tired of trying.
It's a public park and he has to share the place.
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:37 PM on February 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
He's being aggressive in calling her an "interloper", he's expecting her to change her behavior or method, when he doesn't want to change a darn thing. He won't do anything to improve the situation. If he, say, went at a different time, or used an mp3 player, etc, the problem would be solved or assuaged. He has the power in his hands to improve the situation by giving in a little and compromising. But he's being just as stubborn. I also said ignore her. When people don't get a rise out of you, they tend to back off or get tired of trying.
It's a public park and he has to share the place.
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:37 PM on February 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
Wow, I give you credit for not forcibly removing the whistle from her neck, which is what I'd be tempted to do. I HATE PEOPLE WHO WHISTLE!!! Anyway, I agree with those above that say give it one more try with a silent whistle, and then wage war by whistling back. You're not ever going to be friends with her anyway. However, she might then call the police for "harassment" or somesuch, and then it becomes a he said/she said situation in which you might come off as an aggressor simply because you're male.
posted by desjardins at 7:45 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by desjardins at 7:45 PM on February 17, 2009
She's an interloper insofar as she's disrupting his previously peaceful mornings, no? The term seems to refer more to her behavior than to her presence.
I like the silent dog whistle suggestion, but if she won't go for that, I wonder if there's a park district security person who might be able to intervene. I don't think it's at all inappropriate to get security (or the police, if that's who handles this sort of thing) involved if there are noise pollution laws or park rules being violated.
I don't think things like whistling back at her or similar retaliations will do anything towards restoring the previously peaceful morning ritual. If she won't behave better when asked nicely, and the park authorities can't intervene, it might be best to find a new dog park.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:46 PM on February 17, 2009
I like the silent dog whistle suggestion, but if she won't go for that, I wonder if there's a park district security person who might be able to intervene. I don't think it's at all inappropriate to get security (or the police, if that's who handles this sort of thing) involved if there are noise pollution laws or park rules being violated.
I don't think things like whistling back at her or similar retaliations will do anything towards restoring the previously peaceful morning ritual. If she won't behave better when asked nicely, and the park authorities can't intervene, it might be best to find a new dog park.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:46 PM on February 17, 2009
Get an air horn and follow behind her?
Pro tip: never antagonize someone who isn't in his or her right mind. She already irrationally escalated the situation by blowing more when she sees him; if he baits her, things could get really ugly, real fast.
You shouldn't have to change what you do, but nobody ever said life was fair. How could walking in this particular park at this particular time be worth the grief? Life's too short.
posted by aquafortis at 7:52 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Pro tip: never antagonize someone who isn't in his or her right mind. She already irrationally escalated the situation by blowing more when she sees him; if he baits her, things could get really ugly, real fast.
You shouldn't have to change what you do, but nobody ever said life was fair. How could walking in this particular park at this particular time be worth the grief? Life's too short.
posted by aquafortis at 7:52 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
She sounds like and A1 asshole and she's dug in her heels against you, so it would probably be counter-productive to ever talk to her again.
You might try getting other people to ask her to stop. In particular, another woman could point out to her that they rely on a whistle to summon help in the event of an attack in the park. Her constant whistling is affecting general safety. Then, the silent whistle could be suggested as a smart compromise.
Don't get any more hung up on it than you have to. You're going to have to wear headphones or reschedule for a while until it works itself out.
...or find a whistle the same model/ brand as the one she uses and blow it to confuse her dogs, thus canceling out the whole purpose of her behavior.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:52 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
You might try getting other people to ask her to stop. In particular, another woman could point out to her that they rely on a whistle to summon help in the event of an attack in the park. Her constant whistling is affecting general safety. Then, the silent whistle could be suggested as a smart compromise.
Don't get any more hung up on it than you have to. You're going to have to wear headphones or reschedule for a while until it works itself out.
...or find a whistle the same model/ brand as the one she uses and blow it to confuse her dogs, thus canceling out the whole purpose of her behavior.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:52 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
...then gift a whistle to every annoyed person in the park and ask them to join in the fun. (I hope it's nowhere near my house)
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:57 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:57 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
These situations always make my blood boil. My first reaction would be to do as many others have suggested. Give her a dose of her own medicene and get your own whistle and do exactly what she is doing. I can't stand to see a bully win and by your description of events, that's what is. A bully.
Bullies can't be reasoned with and will only respond to actions in kind.
BUT...
As pazazygeek says, you don't want to turn your lovely morning routine into a big stressful fight. On the other hand, you don't want to simply lay down and let his person walk all over you.
Maybe you could video this behaviour and show it to someone who can give you some unbiased advice. Well as unbiased as that advice can be asuming they will be your friend. It may also be that the simply act of video taping her behaviour will be enough to stop her. If it really is as crazy as it sounds, you could stick it on you tube and make a big fool out of her at the least.
If you'd rather go down the really half baked, hairbrained scheme route, you could try to get some intimidating lokoing friends to turn up to the park with you and make a big show of pointing her out to them and make it look like they are making some calls etc... If she asks what that was about you can just tell her "oh you'll find out."
posted by Man_in_staysis at 7:57 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Bullies can't be reasoned with and will only respond to actions in kind.
BUT...
As pazazygeek says, you don't want to turn your lovely morning routine into a big stressful fight. On the other hand, you don't want to simply lay down and let his person walk all over you.
Maybe you could video this behaviour and show it to someone who can give you some unbiased advice. Well as unbiased as that advice can be asuming they will be your friend. It may also be that the simply act of video taping her behaviour will be enough to stop her. If it really is as crazy as it sounds, you could stick it on you tube and make a big fool out of her at the least.
If you'd rather go down the really half baked, hairbrained scheme route, you could try to get some intimidating lokoing friends to turn up to the park with you and make a big show of pointing her out to them and make it look like they are making some calls etc... If she asks what that was about you can just tell her "oh you'll find out."
posted by Man_in_staysis at 7:57 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I agree with cmgonzalez and will add that there's a sense of entitlement here at play. Look, she has a right to use the park and be obnoxious. Sorry. It's a public park. You cannot control her behavior in the park, you can only try and negotiate with her. Unfortunately it appears she's not open to changing her behavior.
Suck it up and use the park at different times, or wear earplugs.
I do sympathise; I hate sharing public spaces when I find someone other user's behavior annoying. But then I get back to reality and have to admit that it's everyone's right to use public amenities, and I have to recognize that I can't control all my environments and have them exactly as I would like, all the time.
Also: it may cause you further aggravation dealing with someone who's already shown they're up for a conflict.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:59 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Suck it up and use the park at different times, or wear earplugs.
I do sympathise; I hate sharing public spaces when I find someone other user's behavior annoying. But then I get back to reality and have to admit that it's everyone's right to use public amenities, and I have to recognize that I can't control all my environments and have them exactly as I would like, all the time.
Also: it may cause you further aggravation dealing with someone who's already shown they're up for a conflict.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 7:59 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Your mistake here is assuming that this woman is like you and me. She's not. She's nuts. The more you engage with her, the more she'll decide to antagonize you.
I'm afraid that the only solutions are 1) don't go to the park; or 2) wear headphones. If you don't give her any attention, maybe she'll go away.
posted by footnote at 8:11 PM on February 17, 2009
I'm afraid that the only solutions are 1) don't go to the park; or 2) wear headphones. If you don't give her any attention, maybe she'll go away.
posted by footnote at 8:11 PM on February 17, 2009
Originally I was going to suggest looking into "disturbing the peace" ordinances--I think she's probably running afoul of them--but given her behavior thus far it seems likely that having the police talk to her would only escalate matters. Still, you might look into your local laws and see if there is anything helpful.
I like the suggestion of getting your own whistle. It probably won't help if this person is in fact crazy, but may well do some good if she is merely obnoxious and full of a sense of entitlement. You should frame it as something positive--tell her that you think it's wonderful how attentive her dogs are, and you've come to see what a great idea the whistle is. This will make you look like you're on her side, and make it nigh-impossible for her to complain unless she modifies her own behavior as well.
posted by fermion at 8:26 PM on February 17, 2009
I like the suggestion of getting your own whistle. It probably won't help if this person is in fact crazy, but may well do some good if she is merely obnoxious and full of a sense of entitlement. You should frame it as something positive--tell her that you think it's wonderful how attentive her dogs are, and you've come to see what a great idea the whistle is. This will make you look like you're on her side, and make it nigh-impossible for her to complain unless she modifies her own behavior as well.
posted by fermion at 8:26 PM on February 17, 2009
Best answer: Where I'm from, off-leash areas need to have dog owner's associations to be responsible for them; some parks have steering committees or "Friends of" groups that take on some of the managing duties whether they're for off-leash areas, playgrounds, or community gardens. We also have a series of bylaws governing the use of off-leash areas, and these cover noise control, especially during certain hours. If there's a way to use these to any affect, should your area have them, some neutral reinforcement coming from an outside party on what's considerate behaviour while using the space might help. Calling a bylaw officer if you have them can be used to great effect - they're like um....meter maids more than police with nightsticks. Here, it can't be done anonymously, but your identity is protected.
Just because spaces are public doesn't mean they can be used any which way - though some people need more convincing of this by some authority. She cannot do whatever she wants there - she can do whatever is allowed there. While the whistling might not be an infraction, she may have other outstanding issues that would warrant tickets or warnings and that might deter her from coming to the area (just make sure your own ducks are in a row). And that's my nice, genuinely helpful answer based on my experience (and position on such a working group) - and it's what I'd try first. By way of example, our group's website can be found by Googling the park's name, or contacting the local councillor or bylaw enforcement's number, plus we're on Facebook. While we're pretty nice people, we're aware of the city's terms of use, and ask people to respect them and the four of us use the park often and speak up to other users; and while most of the time it's lax, the restrictions are there and can be used to make it uncomfortable for some to use the park (dogs who can't be recalled within reason; un-neutered males, professional dog walkers with more dogs than allowed, habitual poop-leavers, etc.) should they be enforced to the letter. If polite verbal reminders don't work, there's back-up, though that means everyone has to toe the line.
However, in real life, as a parent who walks her dog in the off-hours for the same reasons you do, I know this: She came from somewhere where she wasn't welcome, and she'll go away once the area stops working for her. You can't get her to stop - but you can get her to go away.
I know this because people like this float through every park's off-leash area (not because I am a whistler myself). Based on what you've written, it appears she's a little...thinking of a gentle term for it...unhinged. Of course the dogs don't need the constant whistling, though you'd never be able to tell someone who believes that otherwise, and possibly she's making them crazy too. So the suggestions to match her behaviour might not work, and may only escalate the situation. Or, they might work, but I'd be cautious and have witnesses. I'll also add that the male/female dynamic (you are a guy, right?) might be threatening to her, though I'm sure you were just fine in your manner for your initial approach. But it's her impression that matters here, as you're being affected by it.
So, I'd say - what is working for her? That she can whistle away, and enjoy her delusion.
Can you interrupt her so that she can't whistle? Maybe try being the world's friendliest guy by being Question Guy! "Why do you whistle?" "Where did you get that whistle?" "Do you ever whistle along to any tunes?" "Is your dog named Whistle?" "Have you read Ezra Jack Keats' Whistle for Willy?" (ad nauseum) (or bring along someone who will be that person, if at all possible) and ask so many questions that she no longer has that head space - forget about the park space. She may enjoy (well, or not enjoy but be captivated by) the need to do things her (well, it sounds compulsive) way - and if she gets displaced enough, will have to move along to find a way to do it in a way that fulfills her. If you try to whistle her down, she may need to fight back harder, and even be exhilerated in some strange way by the upped ante - but if she gets derailed and wants to avoid you, rather than whistle you down - you might have a chance.
So, though the park is public and she certainly may use it in accordance with the terms of use - if she can't use it in the way she wants to (whether you're there or not) she'll probably leave - or at least, change her schedule if not her behaviour. Heck, I leave more parks because people want to be friendly with me and get all chatty, and often choose the one where I can let my dog stop and sniff other bums to her heart's content while I get to just nod and keep walking. So, "kill her with kindness"? Good luck, I feel for you.
posted by peagood at 8:48 PM on February 17, 2009 [13 favorites]
Just because spaces are public doesn't mean they can be used any which way - though some people need more convincing of this by some authority. She cannot do whatever she wants there - she can do whatever is allowed there. While the whistling might not be an infraction, she may have other outstanding issues that would warrant tickets or warnings and that might deter her from coming to the area (just make sure your own ducks are in a row). And that's my nice, genuinely helpful answer based on my experience (and position on such a working group) - and it's what I'd try first. By way of example, our group's website can be found by Googling the park's name, or contacting the local councillor or bylaw enforcement's number, plus we're on Facebook. While we're pretty nice people, we're aware of the city's terms of use, and ask people to respect them and the four of us use the park often and speak up to other users; and while most of the time it's lax, the restrictions are there and can be used to make it uncomfortable for some to use the park (dogs who can't be recalled within reason; un-neutered males, professional dog walkers with more dogs than allowed, habitual poop-leavers, etc.) should they be enforced to the letter. If polite verbal reminders don't work, there's back-up, though that means everyone has to toe the line.
However, in real life, as a parent who walks her dog in the off-hours for the same reasons you do, I know this: She came from somewhere where she wasn't welcome, and she'll go away once the area stops working for her. You can't get her to stop - but you can get her to go away.
I know this because people like this float through every park's off-leash area (not because I am a whistler myself). Based on what you've written, it appears she's a little...thinking of a gentle term for it...unhinged. Of course the dogs don't need the constant whistling, though you'd never be able to tell someone who believes that otherwise, and possibly she's making them crazy too. So the suggestions to match her behaviour might not work, and may only escalate the situation. Or, they might work, but I'd be cautious and have witnesses. I'll also add that the male/female dynamic (you are a guy, right?) might be threatening to her, though I'm sure you were just fine in your manner for your initial approach. But it's her impression that matters here, as you're being affected by it.
So, I'd say - what is working for her? That she can whistle away, and enjoy her delusion.
Can you interrupt her so that she can't whistle? Maybe try being the world's friendliest guy by being Question Guy! "Why do you whistle?" "Where did you get that whistle?" "Do you ever whistle along to any tunes?" "Is your dog named Whistle?" "Have you read Ezra Jack Keats' Whistle for Willy?" (ad nauseum) (or bring along someone who will be that person, if at all possible) and ask so many questions that she no longer has that head space - forget about the park space. She may enjoy (well, or not enjoy but be captivated by) the need to do things her (well, it sounds compulsive) way - and if she gets displaced enough, will have to move along to find a way to do it in a way that fulfills her. If you try to whistle her down, she may need to fight back harder, and even be exhilerated in some strange way by the upped ante - but if she gets derailed and wants to avoid you, rather than whistle you down - you might have a chance.
So, though the park is public and she certainly may use it in accordance with the terms of use - if she can't use it in the way she wants to (whether you're there or not) she'll probably leave - or at least, change her schedule if not her behaviour. Heck, I leave more parks because people want to be friendly with me and get all chatty, and often choose the one where I can let my dog stop and sniff other bums to her heart's content while I get to just nod and keep walking. So, "kill her with kindness"? Good luck, I feel for you.
posted by peagood at 8:48 PM on February 17, 2009 [13 favorites]
I think you should find some friend who would be willing to come to the park every morning for a while and pretend that they don't know you and that they love tooting on their own whistle, which they can do because it is a park and they are a citizen, whatever...
posted by Foam Pants at 8:49 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Foam Pants at 8:49 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I don't think the counter-whistle thing would work. If there's anything that will escalate the situation, I would think it's this. And, I can envision someone else happening on the park, and finding two whistling idiots (no offense intended) circling each other. Now who's the crazy one? :)
On the other hand, I totally think you should mess with her head. >:)
I love the videotaping idea. I'd bring a video camera, every morning, and point it at her as she makes her way around the park. Stick close -- like, twenty feet behind her. And, when she finally snaps and asks you what you're doing, you pull out one of the many one-liners you'll have prepped before.
"it’s a public park and I can do what I want- and who are you to be telling people what to do."
"I'm recording evidence for when I file a complaint with the city."
"See, my friends don't believe that anyone could behave like you, so I'm putting it on Youtube."
"Oh, it's just a hobby of mine -- I have a whole collection of idiots on tape."
The key I see, in all this, is never actually have a tape in -- then, if she ever did anything like complain to someone, you're not actually doing anything except trying to annoy her -- there's no violation of privacy, etc. etc.
Okay, now I'm acting very childish and immature. And I'd probably not have the guts to do this.
But it would still be fun.
(IANAL -- if you did do the above, and didn't check privacy laws, caveat emptor.)
posted by liquado at 8:54 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I totally think you should mess with her head. >:)
I love the videotaping idea. I'd bring a video camera, every morning, and point it at her as she makes her way around the park. Stick close -- like, twenty feet behind her. And, when she finally snaps and asks you what you're doing, you pull out one of the many one-liners you'll have prepped before.
"it’s a public park and I can do what I want- and who are you to be telling people what to do."
"I'm recording evidence for when I file a complaint with the city."
"See, my friends don't believe that anyone could behave like you, so I'm putting it on Youtube."
"Oh, it's just a hobby of mine -- I have a whole collection of idiots on tape."
The key I see, in all this, is never actually have a tape in -- then, if she ever did anything like complain to someone, you're not actually doing anything except trying to annoy her -- there's no violation of privacy, etc. etc.
Okay, now I'm acting very childish and immature. And I'd probably not have the guts to do this.
But it would still be fun.
(IANAL -- if you did do the above, and didn't check privacy laws, caveat emptor.)
posted by liquado at 8:54 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
You could expand upon the idea presented by Foam Pants, and station 5-6 of your friends around the park with whistles.
I'm sure the commenter was joking about keying the car, but as tempting as that idea might be....well, I'm sure you wouldn't do such a thing.
posted by HopperFan at 8:59 PM on February 17, 2009
I'm sure the commenter was joking about keying the car, but as tempting as that idea might be....well, I'm sure you wouldn't do such a thing.
posted by HopperFan at 8:59 PM on February 17, 2009
Best answer: I take the dogs to a large “off leash” reserve
How big is this park? Is it big enough to ... walk ... somewhere ... else?
At least temporarily?
Because ... it's always been my experience that crazy people just don't have any staying power. You say you've only noticed her in the last few weeks? I bet this is a New Year's resolution for her, walking the dogs in the morning.
I'll bet she'll be gone in another few weeks and you'll never see her again, because she's not as tough as you are.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:05 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
How big is this park? Is it big enough to ... walk ... somewhere ... else?
At least temporarily?
Because ... it's always been my experience that crazy people just don't have any staying power. You say you've only noticed her in the last few weeks? I bet this is a New Year's resolution for her, walking the dogs in the morning.
I'll bet she'll be gone in another few weeks and you'll never see her again, because she's not as tough as you are.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:05 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I know this: She came from somewhere where she wasn't welcome, and she'll go away once the area stops working for her.
peagood's dead on target. Combine the above with liquado's idea (I like ""I'm recording evidence for when I file a complaint with the city; you need to find another place to pull this nonsense or stop immediately") and you have a solution worth trying.
posted by mediareport at 9:23 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
peagood's dead on target. Combine the above with liquado's idea (I like ""I'm recording evidence for when I file a complaint with the city; you need to find another place to pull this nonsense or stop immediately") and you have a solution worth trying.
posted by mediareport at 9:23 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Hi, do you mind if I give your dog a biscuit...my dog loves these! Do you enjoy a coffee (tea, hot chocolate) in the morning? I'm going to get a _____ tomorrow morning and wondered if I can bring you one, too?"
"Oh, ok, well, is that a Chihuahua? Oh, it's a Great Dane? Where did you get it? Does it get along well with your pit bull? What kind of food do you feed them? Oh, I knew it would be something gold-plated, their coats are so silky and shiny! Do they ever fight?" etc.
It's hard to do annoying and unkind things (her) to someone (you) who has taken the time to do a kind thing for you, and engages with you in a positive way. Even if you're pretty unpleasant.
If, on the other hand, that doesn't have the desired effect, then you can ask if she's ever heard of a whistle that only dogs can hear, tell her how much they love it and is less damaging to their long-term hearing and how much more responsive they are to it and how it makes their coat silky and shine like a waxed baby's behind. And of course have same with you in your pocket. And some dog biscuits.
And, assuming nothing changes her (likely scenario) change your dog-walking time, or walk them and listen to cool podcasts at the farthest end of the park from her.
posted by mumstheword at 9:33 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
"Oh, ok, well, is that a Chihuahua? Oh, it's a Great Dane? Where did you get it? Does it get along well with your pit bull? What kind of food do you feed them? Oh, I knew it would be something gold-plated, their coats are so silky and shiny! Do they ever fight?" etc.
It's hard to do annoying and unkind things (her) to someone (you) who has taken the time to do a kind thing for you, and engages with you in a positive way. Even if you're pretty unpleasant.
If, on the other hand, that doesn't have the desired effect, then you can ask if she's ever heard of a whistle that only dogs can hear, tell her how much they love it and is less damaging to their long-term hearing and how much more responsive they are to it and how it makes their coat silky and shine like a waxed baby's behind. And of course have same with you in your pocket. And some dog biscuits.
And, assuming nothing changes her (likely scenario) change your dog-walking time, or walk them and listen to cool podcasts at the farthest end of the park from her.
posted by mumstheword at 9:33 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
"even if you're pretty unpleasant" referred to HER unpleasantness...not yours...not sure if that was clear!
posted by mumstheword at 9:35 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by mumstheword at 9:35 PM on February 17, 2009
I say be an ass. If this park is secluded enough (i.e., away from residential areas), bring a little horn and blow it every time she whistles. It will either annoy her enough to catch a hint and moderate herself or will annoy her to the point that she finds somewhere else to walk her dogs.
haha, that's brilliant you should definitely do that, I bet it works inside a couple days.
As a life long dog owner I sympathize, there is nothing more annoying than some crazy dog park nutcase because you usually have to deal with them before breakfast.
posted by fshgrl at 9:46 PM on February 17, 2009
haha, that's brilliant you should definitely do that, I bet it works inside a couple days.
As a life long dog owner I sympathize, there is nothing more annoying than some crazy dog park nutcase because you usually have to deal with them before breakfast.
posted by fshgrl at 9:46 PM on February 17, 2009
Buy her a silent dog whistle. Approach her with a smile, humbly and politely ask that she use the silent whistle instead of the loud whistle. Be kind, create that new opportunity for her.
If she refuses, then it's on.
The gloves come off. Others have posted some good counter techniques; I think getting your own whistle and mocking her whistling to the point that it annoys her is a good plan. Only problem with that is it might upset or confuse your own dogs.
Most importantly, though, as Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse: be nice. A time or two, anyway. If that doesn't work then lock 'n' load.
posted by zardoz at 10:18 PM on February 17, 2009
If she refuses, then it's on.
The gloves come off. Others have posted some good counter techniques; I think getting your own whistle and mocking her whistling to the point that it annoys her is a good plan. Only problem with that is it might upset or confuse your own dogs.
Most importantly, though, as Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse: be nice. A time or two, anyway. If that doesn't work then lock 'n' load.
posted by zardoz at 10:18 PM on February 17, 2009
bring a little horn and blow it every time she whistles. It will either annoy her enough to catch a hint and moderate herself or will annoy her to the point that she finds somewhere else to walk her dogs.
Or inspire her to add airhorn to her repetoire of noises she doesn't mind making even though she knows they annoy you.
posted by bunglin jones at 10:18 PM on February 17, 2009
Or inspire her to add airhorn to her repetoire of noises she doesn't mind making even though she knows they annoy you.
posted by bunglin jones at 10:18 PM on February 17, 2009
I know you don't have much time to go for your walk, but maybe you could leave 15 minutes later and that might be enough time to put your walk out of sync with the whistlers walk.
As suggested earlier it's probably wise to not retaliate because that would just make the situation worse.
Good luck
posted by Jimmeh at 1:06 AM on February 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
As suggested earlier it's probably wise to not retaliate because that would just make the situation worse.
Good luck
posted by Jimmeh at 1:06 AM on February 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
The people who are saying that she has every right to be an ass in public and that you should just suck it up are full of shit. Ignore them. They probably go out and blow wistles or do other obnoxious things too. Society does not need this nonsense.
I think your best bet is to contact the police, find out about the noise ordinances and see if they can help. If they can't the suggestion of upping the ante with your own wistle sounds pretty good. You might also inquire with a local attorney as to whether there are any civil actions you could take. Escalating much beyond this though might become counter productive. Physical intimidation, giving her the wrong impression that you may be out to rape her, the air horn, knifing her tires, taking her whistle, hiring thugs to intimidate her, etc. will all likely get her to call the police and subject you to jeopardy. She may also have equally crazy large relatives come and intimidate you. Let the authorities, courts, or gentle persuasion do the job. You may have to find an alternative park though.
posted by caddis at 1:41 AM on February 18, 2009
I think your best bet is to contact the police, find out about the noise ordinances and see if they can help. If they can't the suggestion of upping the ante with your own wistle sounds pretty good. You might also inquire with a local attorney as to whether there are any civil actions you could take. Escalating much beyond this though might become counter productive. Physical intimidation, giving her the wrong impression that you may be out to rape her, the air horn, knifing her tires, taking her whistle, hiring thugs to intimidate her, etc. will all likely get her to call the police and subject you to jeopardy. She may also have equally crazy large relatives come and intimidate you. Let the authorities, courts, or gentle persuasion do the job. You may have to find an alternative park though.
posted by caddis at 1:41 AM on February 18, 2009
This seems like an attachment problem. Your walk is a very important ritual because you don't get enough alone time, and you seem frustrated by this. No wonder everyone is expressing hostile solutions - our lives are so tightly regulated that these rituals become incredibly important.
Your morning walk is now threatened by chance. Unfortunately, life isn't fair and you may lose this wonderful ritual if the above mentioned steps (the kind ones, please - talking and then using the city council) don't work. This may very well happen.
The woman is acting like an asshole, but who knows? Maybe she has reasons. Maybe her life, the fact she rescued difficult dogs, or has her own physical or mental pain, or whatever - causes this for her. There's no way of knowing, and nobody but a child's parents or the community as a whole can compel someone in our society.
I'm frustrated every day by alienation and the lack of freedom - the fact that we don't have power sometimes to protect our morning rituals. Sometimes we do - there's a good chance that kindness might work. But there's a good chance not.
Fortunately, you have friends and family who love you and if you express your need, maybe somebody else will have a way for you to get your hour of alone time - maybe at the same time of day, maybe a different time - maybe with the dogs, maybe without them. There is usually a way.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:03 AM on February 18, 2009 [5 favorites]
Your morning walk is now threatened by chance. Unfortunately, life isn't fair and you may lose this wonderful ritual if the above mentioned steps (the kind ones, please - talking and then using the city council) don't work. This may very well happen.
The woman is acting like an asshole, but who knows? Maybe she has reasons. Maybe her life, the fact she rescued difficult dogs, or has her own physical or mental pain, or whatever - causes this for her. There's no way of knowing, and nobody but a child's parents or the community as a whole can compel someone in our society.
I'm frustrated every day by alienation and the lack of freedom - the fact that we don't have power sometimes to protect our morning rituals. Sometimes we do - there's a good chance that kindness might work. But there's a good chance not.
Fortunately, you have friends and family who love you and if you express your need, maybe somebody else will have a way for you to get your hour of alone time - maybe at the same time of day, maybe a different time - maybe with the dogs, maybe without them. There is usually a way.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:03 AM on February 18, 2009 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: peagood on shear effort
Thanks everyone, most illuminating. key her car you say? hmmmmmmmm
posted by mattoxic at 4:06 AM on February 18, 2009
Thanks everyone, most illuminating. key her car you say? hmmmmmmmm
posted by mattoxic at 4:06 AM on February 18, 2009
Perhaps a silent whistle of your own would be just as effective? Time it to sound a second before hers? Or maybe some irritatingly random pattern? If the dogs are trained to respond to a whistle, perhaps it will be enough to disrupt things. It also has the rather amusing bonus of her being unable to prove that you are in fact sabotaging her. :) I hope it would work because I could just imagine the craziness that would ensue.
...It would be fricking hilarious!
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 4:30 AM on February 18, 2009
...It would be fricking hilarious!
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 4:30 AM on February 18, 2009
Repeating peagood's "the male/female dynamic (you are a guy, right?) might be threatening to her" for emphasis. The real reason for her whistling may have nothing to do with the dogs.
I also agree with Cool Papa Bell--if you can, give her a wide berth and in time she'll quit for her own reasons.
posted by Restless Day at 6:10 AM on February 18, 2009
I also agree with Cool Papa Bell--if you can, give her a wide berth and in time she'll quit for her own reasons.
posted by Restless Day at 6:10 AM on February 18, 2009
It is against the law to squirt someone with a squirt gun? That would be annoying.
posted by billysumday at 7:12 AM on February 18, 2009
posted by billysumday at 7:12 AM on February 18, 2009
Small Cymbals. Attach elastic. Tie to knees. Added bonus: extra exercise for your legs.
Or
Tambourine. Dance Routine. Say you are exercising a new Tai Chi/Patridge Family fusion method.
posted by spec80 at 7:40 AM on February 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Or
Tambourine. Dance Routine. Say you are exercising a new Tai Chi/Patridge Family fusion method.
posted by spec80 at 7:40 AM on February 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
It sounds as if her whistling is merely 'loud' as opposed to deafening and in violation of nuisance laws. The silent whistle may be a good idea, but the simple fact is, she has as much right to use the park as you. You're apparently unwilling to adapt ( use MP3 player, change times, etc) and are willing to go so far as to key her car? Sounds like you're the crazy one...
Just as you treasure the opportunity for peace and quiet, she may treasure the early morning to vent a bit with her doggies.
It's a public space, deal with it.
posted by pentagoet at 8:04 AM on February 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I agree with mu~ha~ha~ha~har, I think that you might find an opportunity to sabotage her dogs rather than her. Thus, set her dogs up: buy a silent whistle and blow it along with her to confuse her dogs, also stash little cashes of treats for her dogs to find along the area where she tends to walk, but away from the path and see if they find them.
But no, don't just 'deal with it'. It is a public space, but there are reasonable limits for use, as others have suggested.
posted by rand at 10:41 AM on February 18, 2009
But no, don't just 'deal with it'. It is a public space, but there are reasonable limits for use, as others have suggested.
posted by rand at 10:41 AM on February 18, 2009
There are sound pollution laws; you could call the police.
Your location isn't obvious, but if these are American police, I can hear their laughter from here.
posted by Rash at 1:00 PM on February 18, 2009
Your location isn't obvious, but if these are American police, I can hear their laughter from here.
posted by Rash at 1:00 PM on February 18, 2009
Mod note: A few comments removed. Please, let's not go down the path of "do this shitty vengeful thing to her, lol".
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:51 PM on February 18, 2009
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:51 PM on February 18, 2009
also stash little cashes of treats for her dogs to find along the area where she tends to walk, but away from the path and see if they find them.
dogs can have food allergies.
posted by jerseygirl at 2:05 PM on February 18, 2009
dogs can have food allergies.
posted by jerseygirl at 2:05 PM on February 18, 2009
It is against the law to squirt someone with a squirt gun?
Don't know about elsewhere, but if we're talking about the USA, a complaint to the police might possibly net the squirter with an assault and battery charge. Might not hold up in court, but it's hard to say. If busted, the story would probably make the news, however.
posted by Rash at 3:10 PM on February 18, 2009
Don't know about elsewhere, but if we're talking about the USA, a complaint to the police might possibly net the squirter with an assault and battery charge. Might not hold up in court, but it's hard to say. If busted, the story would probably make the news, however.
posted by Rash at 3:10 PM on February 18, 2009
OP's profile sez he's in Oz. If so, you may want to contact your city council which oversees the off-leash park, to determine whether WhistlerWoman is violating any rules (aside from basic off-leash requirements). There may be requirements that park users not harass others nor infringe upon their enjoyment of the public spaces.
posted by terranova at 4:42 PM on February 18, 2009
posted by terranova at 4:42 PM on February 18, 2009
You could expand upon the idea presented by Foam Pants, and station 5-6 of your friends around the park with whistles. "
Oh, lordy! This would be knee-slapping hilarious. It would be fun to do just to DO IT. They're coming out of the bushes! They're everywhere! Her poor dogs would have a conniption fit.
posted by Foam Pants at 1:29 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Oh, lordy! This would be knee-slapping hilarious. It would be fun to do just to DO IT. They're coming out of the bushes! They're everywhere! Her poor dogs would have a conniption fit.
posted by Foam Pants at 1:29 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Foam Pants, I'm sorry to report that both your idea and mine were quite thoroughly rejected by the OP:
"These are a list of things that I wouldn't do- and I have rated them from 1-5 each in idiocy, impracticability and immaturity :
Co opt others to harass the person (Score: 15)"
Ah well. I still think it's funny.
posted by HopperFan at 1:48 PM on February 25, 2009
"These are a list of things that I wouldn't do- and I have rated them from 1-5 each in idiocy, impracticability and immaturity :
Co opt others to harass the person (Score: 15)"
Ah well. I still think it's funny.
posted by HopperFan at 1:48 PM on February 25, 2009
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posted by dawson at 6:59 PM on February 17, 2009 [7 favorites]