Put me to sleep!
October 2, 2008 6:10 AM Subscribe
Why do I refuse to go to sleep, even though I'm tired, I need to get up early, and I'm not even doing anything fun? (long description follows)
I know this is a pretty stupid question, but I can't seem to fix this self-control issue and it's screwing up my life. I started an internship a few months ago, and I'm finding that I need to be a lot more conscious and awake than I ever had to be in university. But even though I know I have to get up for work early the next day, and even though I'm exhausted from only having had 3 or 4 hours of sleep the night before, I simply will not go to sleep. I mean that I tell myself, "you should sleep, you're getting up early, you've slept late every night this week, go to bed" and I still don't move.
Part of it is my quasi-internet/computer addiction, probably; when I actually pull myself away from the computer, my tiredness hits me, I can't keep my eyes open, and I pretty much fall into bed. At the same time, I didn't have computer access for a while and I kept myself up anyways, reading books or writing a journal or other things like that. The even weirder thing is that now, with the computer, I feel too guilty to actually do anything fun so long as I'm aware that I'm putting off sleep; thinking of playing a game is met with "There is no way you are going to play a game when it's two in the morning and you need to get up at 6" but I still can't seem to make myself sleep, so I end up just reloading MeFi or RSS feeds for hours - and I'm in a time zone where nothing is even updating or being posted, so it's utterly useless.
Another thing that might be relevant is that I seem to have some sort of subconscious quota. If I get home at 7 and bum around until it's time for bed, I can usually stir myself to sleep by 12 (later than I'd like, but livable); on the other hand, on days where I have activities and I don't get home till 10 or so, I'm much more likely to be up doing nothing until 3am.
I don't know how much you all can help me, since I guess this is a bit of a personal issue, but the hive seems to have given great answers to all sorts of personal issues in the past, and I'm at my wit's end. If you've had this sort of problem before, or you have some advice, please pass it along! Anything will be deeply appreciated!
In the interests of giving as much info as possible since this is anon:
- Female, twenty, lightweight gamer, heavy internet user. Right now, living alone (but in a dormitory).
- I do this occasionally when I'm in university too, but not nearly as much, and I don't need to be as awake. In university I need to get homework done daily, while with work I'm completely free once I'm home.
- This is only my second internship. It will be over in 8 months and then I'll go back to school, but I don't want this to continue when I have a job for real some day.
- Therapy seems to be a common suggestion, but it isn't a possibility right now because I'm in a foreign country and my command of the language is not great.
- Throwaway email account at: noclownsinvolved@gmail.com
I know this is a pretty stupid question, but I can't seem to fix this self-control issue and it's screwing up my life. I started an internship a few months ago, and I'm finding that I need to be a lot more conscious and awake than I ever had to be in university. But even though I know I have to get up for work early the next day, and even though I'm exhausted from only having had 3 or 4 hours of sleep the night before, I simply will not go to sleep. I mean that I tell myself, "you should sleep, you're getting up early, you've slept late every night this week, go to bed" and I still don't move.
Part of it is my quasi-internet/computer addiction, probably; when I actually pull myself away from the computer, my tiredness hits me, I can't keep my eyes open, and I pretty much fall into bed. At the same time, I didn't have computer access for a while and I kept myself up anyways, reading books or writing a journal or other things like that. The even weirder thing is that now, with the computer, I feel too guilty to actually do anything fun so long as I'm aware that I'm putting off sleep; thinking of playing a game is met with "There is no way you are going to play a game when it's two in the morning and you need to get up at 6" but I still can't seem to make myself sleep, so I end up just reloading MeFi or RSS feeds for hours - and I'm in a time zone where nothing is even updating or being posted, so it's utterly useless.
Another thing that might be relevant is that I seem to have some sort of subconscious quota. If I get home at 7 and bum around until it's time for bed, I can usually stir myself to sleep by 12 (later than I'd like, but livable); on the other hand, on days where I have activities and I don't get home till 10 or so, I'm much more likely to be up doing nothing until 3am.
I don't know how much you all can help me, since I guess this is a bit of a personal issue, but the hive seems to have given great answers to all sorts of personal issues in the past, and I'm at my wit's end. If you've had this sort of problem before, or you have some advice, please pass it along! Anything will be deeply appreciated!
In the interests of giving as much info as possible since this is anon:
- Female, twenty, lightweight gamer, heavy internet user. Right now, living alone (but in a dormitory).
- I do this occasionally when I'm in university too, but not nearly as much, and I don't need to be as awake. In university I need to get homework done daily, while with work I'm completely free once I'm home.
- This is only my second internship. It will be over in 8 months and then I'll go back to school, but I don't want this to continue when I have a job for real some day.
- Therapy seems to be a common suggestion, but it isn't a possibility right now because I'm in a foreign country and my command of the language is not great.
- Throwaway email account at: noclownsinvolved@gmail.com
I do that when I am, to some extent, not looking forward to the next day. I know that once I fall asleep, next thing I know it will be morning and I will have to see to whatever responsibilities face me that day. Is there any chance that this internship is stressing you out, or that you don't like it, and are feeling a little bit of dread about facing each day?
posted by amro at 6:39 AM on October 2, 2008 [10 favorites]
posted by amro at 6:39 AM on October 2, 2008 [10 favorites]
Sleep hygiene is one of those things where there's no magic bullet, just a collection of best-practice rules of thumb. Exercise more. Eat better. Avoid caffeine in the 4-6 hours before bedtime. Etc.
posted by Drastic at 6:45 AM on October 2, 2008
posted by Drastic at 6:45 AM on October 2, 2008
Wow. This was me, and sometimes still is me when I'm stressed.
I picked up a lot of bad sleeping habits at university, mainly because I was living outside of the family home for the first time and the inner twelve year old in me stayed up simply because there was no one to tell me to go to bed.
Fast forward to five years later and I was in my first real job in London, and still staying up ridiculously late, reloading feeds etc. In part, I think it was a reaction to not having a flexible day anymore. Unlike uni where I had a couple of classes but was able to structure the rest of the day how I liked, I suddenly had a 9 or 10 hour (if I was lucky, my old job had pretty long hours) chunks of my day that were out of my control.
Coming home after something like that, it was really, really hard to unwind. It also really annoyed me that it made sense for me to go to bed pretty much an hour after I got home from work. I felt like my evenings had been stolen from me, and I felt like I should stay up to try and squeeze more out of the day. Going to sleep felt like an admission of defeat, like I had given up on doing anything personal with the day. When you combined that with sitting in front of my laptop trying to write short stories, the endless procrastination opportunities of the internet and no-one in the house to tell me to go to bed, you got pretty much the exact situation you're describing.
I still lapse occasionally and stay up too late (I sometimes feel a bit night-owlish and just don't want to go to bed), but I have a rigid wakeup time these days, and that has changed a lot, as I know I'll be braindead if I don't hit the hay by a certain hour. I also deliberately don't surf the web when a) my wife is around, because it's way more fun talking to her and b) once I've F5'd MeFi more than once in half an hour, I close my laptop.
posted by Happy Dave at 6:53 AM on October 2, 2008
I picked up a lot of bad sleeping habits at university, mainly because I was living outside of the family home for the first time and the inner twelve year old in me stayed up simply because there was no one to tell me to go to bed.
Fast forward to five years later and I was in my first real job in London, and still staying up ridiculously late, reloading feeds etc. In part, I think it was a reaction to not having a flexible day anymore. Unlike uni where I had a couple of classes but was able to structure the rest of the day how I liked, I suddenly had a 9 or 10 hour (if I was lucky, my old job had pretty long hours) chunks of my day that were out of my control.
Coming home after something like that, it was really, really hard to unwind. It also really annoyed me that it made sense for me to go to bed pretty much an hour after I got home from work. I felt like my evenings had been stolen from me, and I felt like I should stay up to try and squeeze more out of the day. Going to sleep felt like an admission of defeat, like I had given up on doing anything personal with the day. When you combined that with sitting in front of my laptop trying to write short stories, the endless procrastination opportunities of the internet and no-one in the house to tell me to go to bed, you got pretty much the exact situation you're describing.
I still lapse occasionally and stay up too late (I sometimes feel a bit night-owlish and just don't want to go to bed), but I have a rigid wakeup time these days, and that has changed a lot, as I know I'll be braindead if I don't hit the hay by a certain hour. I also deliberately don't surf the web when a) my wife is around, because it's way more fun talking to her and b) once I've F5'd MeFi more than once in half an hour, I close my laptop.
posted by Happy Dave at 6:53 AM on October 2, 2008
There have been a few question asked here about insomnia, I suggest you do some searches.
What works for me is:
1. Melatonin 1/2 hour or so before bedtime.
2. Switching to a more relaxed lifestyle, or at least slowing things down 2 to 3 hours before bed, and using relaxation techniques while lying in bed to help me fall asleep much quicker.
3. Cut out caffeine after 11am. This includes sodas and teas.
If youre gaming at night then you've 500% overstimulated. People play games because it stimulates them. Cut off your gaming at 10pm.
Some nights it works better than others and to make this stuff a habit it'll take month, but it will be worth it in the long run.
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:57 AM on October 2, 2008
What works for me is:
1. Melatonin 1/2 hour or so before bedtime.
2. Switching to a more relaxed lifestyle, or at least slowing things down 2 to 3 hours before bed, and using relaxation techniques while lying in bed to help me fall asleep much quicker.
3. Cut out caffeine after 11am. This includes sodas and teas.
If youre gaming at night then you've 500% overstimulated. People play games because it stimulates them. Cut off your gaming at 10pm.
Some nights it works better than others and to make this stuff a habit it'll take month, but it will be worth it in the long run.
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:57 AM on October 2, 2008
Also, dont nap and get up at the same time everyday: including weekends. Ive found I can sleep an extra 2 hours on the weekend, but anything more than that messes up my schedule again.
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:58 AM on October 2, 2008
posted by damn dirty ape at 6:58 AM on October 2, 2008
I have something very similar to this, but as I don't go to work regular hours, I can get away with doing it long-term. I've established that, with me, the reason is that I feel like I've not been productive "enough" for the time I've been awake and that I need to achieve a certain number of things to make the time feel well spent. Perhaps you're not fulfilled with how you're using your time and need a particularly productive hobby to combat it?
posted by wackybrit at 7:06 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by wackybrit at 7:06 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Take magnesium supplements before bed. I tried this when all else had failed, and it worked astonishingly well.
posted by futility closet at 7:08 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by futility closet at 7:08 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Previously.
The suggestions above are what I would make (esp. the exercise). Also your serotonin levels may be low, as low serotonin is associated with sleep/mood disturbances. To that effect it wouldn't hurt to pick up some 5-HTP at any health/vitamin aisle and see if that helps. I would try the melatonin, too.
posted by crapmatic at 7:08 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
The suggestions above are what I would make (esp. the exercise). Also your serotonin levels may be low, as low serotonin is associated with sleep/mood disturbances. To that effect it wouldn't hurt to pick up some 5-HTP at any health/vitamin aisle and see if that helps. I would try the melatonin, too.
posted by crapmatic at 7:08 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Second the comment above -- you need to physically turn off your computer at a certain time. Take away the temptation.
posted by inigo2 at 7:16 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by inigo2 at 7:16 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Suggestion: Do you run windows? In the command prompt put "at 20:00 /every:M,T,W,Th,F shutdown -s -f" (no quotes, then hit enter) replacing the 20:00 with desired bedtime. Then on weekdays your computer will shutdown automatically. I'll allow myself 30 minutes of an audiobook (set ipod to sleep), but timed lights / sleep mode on tv work as well. If at 9:00 pm your computer shut off and so did all the lights, it would almost take more effort to stay away (and restart things) then to go to sleep. Also get dual alarm clock, set to go off at bedtime, so you have to physically walk to bed to turn it off, while there, lay down.
posted by syntheticfaith at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by syntheticfaith at 7:26 AM on October 2, 2008 [7 favorites]
You need to give yourself a reason to look forward to going to bed. I always look forward to bed if there's an interesting book waiting for me when I get there. Perhaps a trip to the library is in order?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:39 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:39 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is an avoidance issue. You don't want to face tomorrow. Until you address the underlying issue, anything else you do mechanically to force yourself to get off the internets or whatever will not last.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:39 AM on October 2, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:39 AM on October 2, 2008 [4 favorites]
Sounds like you don't have enough down time. I do this too. Unless I have a few hours to myself at the end of the day, I feel like the day's been a rush and I'm not done with it yet.
I think the solution is making sure you get home earlier, or only going out after work every other day so that you know you will have time to relax the next day.
posted by rmless at 8:11 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think the solution is making sure you get home earlier, or only going out after work every other day so that you know you will have time to relax the next day.
posted by rmless at 8:11 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I do this. A lot. While I don't have a whole lot of solutions for you, I wanted to second this:
It also really annoyed me that it made sense for me to go to bed pretty much an hour after I got home from work. I felt like my evenings had been stolen from me, and I felt like I should stay up to try and squeeze more out of the day. Going to sleep felt like an admission of defeat, like I had given up on doing anything personal with the day.
This has always been the issue for me. I don't want to go to bed because it feels like I just got home. While I haven't solved the issue entirely I find that making a To Do list of the fun, personal things I want to do when I get home helps. This was I read the stuff I want to read, hunt down the music I want, play the games I want, and don't necessarily waste the hours on the net. I make sure I browse the sites I want to browse, but that's all. I actively avoid StumbleUpon.
In the end if I feel like I had enough "me time" going to bed isn't so bad.
posted by aclevername at 8:13 AM on October 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
It also really annoyed me that it made sense for me to go to bed pretty much an hour after I got home from work. I felt like my evenings had been stolen from me, and I felt like I should stay up to try and squeeze more out of the day. Going to sleep felt like an admission of defeat, like I had given up on doing anything personal with the day.
This has always been the issue for me. I don't want to go to bed because it feels like I just got home. While I haven't solved the issue entirely I find that making a To Do list of the fun, personal things I want to do when I get home helps. This was I read the stuff I want to read, hunt down the music I want, play the games I want, and don't necessarily waste the hours on the net. I make sure I browse the sites I want to browse, but that's all. I actively avoid StumbleUpon.
In the end if I feel like I had enough "me time" going to bed isn't so bad.
posted by aclevername at 8:13 AM on October 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
I do this exact same thing when I'm not looking forward to my next day. It's just like a few others have said above: going to bed is admitting that I have to get up tomorrow to do the thing I don't want to do. And I don't want to do it! Maybe if I stay up all night, tomorrow will not come. Trying to get myself to go to sleep is like negotiating with a 3-year-old in my brain.
The best ways I've found to fix this include having a good book to read in bed (at least that gets me into the right location without too much struggle) and having something fun to look forward to first thing in the morning, before work or other obligations. That could be cooking or going out for a fantastic breakfast, meeting some friends to watch the sun rise, splurging on a fancy coffee and doing the crossword, or even watching a new episode of a tv show on dvd or online.
All of those things require me to get up earlier, which seems counterproductive when I'm trying to get more sleep, but somehow they help a lot. If I get up and go straight to work, it feels like work has dominated my life from 10pm (when I had to go to bed so I could get up to go to work) until 5pm (when I finish work), which is an unacceptably huge percentage of my day. If I get up and do my own thing, then work only commands my schedule from 8-5, which is much more agreeable. Instead of being the main substance of my day, obligations are just an interruption in the middle of my fun time. It sounds silly, but it makes a huge difference. It helps me feel more in control of my life, more self-determined.
posted by vytae at 8:22 AM on October 2, 2008 [10 favorites]
The best ways I've found to fix this include having a good book to read in bed (at least that gets me into the right location without too much struggle) and having something fun to look forward to first thing in the morning, before work or other obligations. That could be cooking or going out for a fantastic breakfast, meeting some friends to watch the sun rise, splurging on a fancy coffee and doing the crossword, or even watching a new episode of a tv show on dvd or online.
All of those things require me to get up earlier, which seems counterproductive when I'm trying to get more sleep, but somehow they help a lot. If I get up and go straight to work, it feels like work has dominated my life from 10pm (when I had to go to bed so I could get up to go to work) until 5pm (when I finish work), which is an unacceptably huge percentage of my day. If I get up and do my own thing, then work only commands my schedule from 8-5, which is much more agreeable. Instead of being the main substance of my day, obligations are just an interruption in the middle of my fun time. It sounds silly, but it makes a huge difference. It helps me feel more in control of my life, more self-determined.
posted by vytae at 8:22 AM on October 2, 2008 [10 favorites]
I second just about all of damn dirty ape's advice. I've had horrible, HORRIBLE problems with sleep and getting up for my job which *begins* at 715AM. Finally, after months of trial and error and some help from my Dr, this is what I've come up with that works for me. I highly, highly recommend it:
1. No caffeine after work. Sometimes I need an extra jolt to get through the afternoon, but once I'm home, that's it. No more.
2. T-1 hr. to bedtime: Melatonin. This is the one OTC thing that's worked for me, and it's worked better than any Tylenol PM, Unisom, whatever. I take the super-strength 3mg Melatonin and within an hour, sleep is mine. It helps to take it the same time every night and then your body after a few weeks gets into a routine where it starts producing the hormone whether or not you take the synthetic drug - as such, I only need to actually *take* the Melatonin about three times a week - the other four nights, my body just goes to sleep anyhow.
3. As a fellow internet junkie - especially late night - this one is of the utmost importance: once the Melatonin is taken: NO. MORE. ELECTRONIC. TEAT. No computer. No TV.
4. At this point, it is time for the bedtime routine. My routine involves a shower or bath and then my butt is in bed with a book.
The main ingredient to making this work is will-power. My own issue was not being able to fall asleep. If you can fall asleep once you're in bed, what you really need to work on is the self-discipline to PUT yourself in bed at the proper time. Nothing's going to make that happen if you don't WANT it to. Changing habits is hard, but if you really want to be better rested at your job, better sleep hygiene will help a ton.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:24 AM on October 2, 2008 [5 favorites]
1. No caffeine after work. Sometimes I need an extra jolt to get through the afternoon, but once I'm home, that's it. No more.
2. T-1 hr. to bedtime: Melatonin. This is the one OTC thing that's worked for me, and it's worked better than any Tylenol PM, Unisom, whatever. I take the super-strength 3mg Melatonin and within an hour, sleep is mine. It helps to take it the same time every night and then your body after a few weeks gets into a routine where it starts producing the hormone whether or not you take the synthetic drug - as such, I only need to actually *take* the Melatonin about three times a week - the other four nights, my body just goes to sleep anyhow.
3. As a fellow internet junkie - especially late night - this one is of the utmost importance: once the Melatonin is taken: NO. MORE. ELECTRONIC. TEAT. No computer. No TV.
4. At this point, it is time for the bedtime routine. My routine involves a shower or bath and then my butt is in bed with a book.
The main ingredient to making this work is will-power. My own issue was not being able to fall asleep. If you can fall asleep once you're in bed, what you really need to work on is the self-discipline to PUT yourself in bed at the proper time. Nothing's going to make that happen if you don't WANT it to. Changing habits is hard, but if you really want to be better rested at your job, better sleep hygiene will help a ton.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:24 AM on October 2, 2008 [5 favorites]
I do this sometimes. I don't ordinarily work outside the home, but I am kept busy with three small children, and I'm seconding rmless that for me, it seems to be about not having had enough downtime or solitude. Like you, though I tend to do time-wasty stuff when I stay up very late.
Recognizing the underlying need for some time to myself has really helped. So has melatonin--when I can feel myself heading toward "I'm tired but I just won't let myself go to bed," melatonin will push my tiredness to the "can't ignore" level.
posted by not that girl at 8:24 AM on October 2, 2008
Recognizing the underlying need for some time to myself has really helped. So has melatonin--when I can feel myself heading toward "I'm tired but I just won't let myself go to bed," melatonin will push my tiredness to the "can't ignore" level.
posted by not that girl at 8:24 AM on October 2, 2008
I used to dread bedtime because bedtime was stress out about my life time. I'd just lie in bed, worrying and making myself frantic, and I wanted to postpone that unpleasant event for as long as possible. If that's your problem, I've found a couple of strategies that work.
1. A half an hour before bedtime, I stop doing whatever I was doing, get into bed, turn on the radio, and knit for a half an hour. Knitting is relaxing, and it requires a little bit of concentrating, but not a lot. It's good for getting my head into the right place, which is a kind of empty place where I'm not thinking about anything. If I were the kind of person who could meditate, that's probably what I would do, but since I'm incapable of meditating, knitting works for me.
2. As I am trying to fall asleep, I listen to talk radio. It has to be the right kind of talk radio: nteresting but not fascinating, and nothing that pisses me off. Podcasts are good for this, and the BBC world service always works for me. If you shared a room with someone, I'd recommend a pillow radio, but since you live alone, you can just use a normal radio or hook up your MP3 player to some speakers or something like that.
3. If all else fails and I can't control my stressful racing thoughts, I make myself count backwards from 1000 by 7s. That seems to clear my head and do the trick.
For me, once I came up with some strategies to avoid stressing out at bedtime, I stopped dreading it and it was much easier to make myself go to bed at a reasonable hour. I have no idea if that's your problem, but if so, that's what worked for me.
posted by craichead at 8:38 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
1. A half an hour before bedtime, I stop doing whatever I was doing, get into bed, turn on the radio, and knit for a half an hour. Knitting is relaxing, and it requires a little bit of concentrating, but not a lot. It's good for getting my head into the right place, which is a kind of empty place where I'm not thinking about anything. If I were the kind of person who could meditate, that's probably what I would do, but since I'm incapable of meditating, knitting works for me.
2. As I am trying to fall asleep, I listen to talk radio. It has to be the right kind of talk radio: nteresting but not fascinating, and nothing that pisses me off. Podcasts are good for this, and the BBC world service always works for me. If you shared a room with someone, I'd recommend a pillow radio, but since you live alone, you can just use a normal radio or hook up your MP3 player to some speakers or something like that.
3. If all else fails and I can't control my stressful racing thoughts, I make myself count backwards from 1000 by 7s. That seems to clear my head and do the trick.
For me, once I came up with some strategies to avoid stressing out at bedtime, I stopped dreading it and it was much easier to make myself go to bed at a reasonable hour. I have no idea if that's your problem, but if so, that's what worked for me.
posted by craichead at 8:38 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I dont' have a lot of advice but I do the same thing unless I turn the computer off WAY early. I don't know what it is about computers but it's too easy to do/watch "just one more thing" for 90 minutes straight.
And I also associate it with stress, either not having gotten the things done I should have, or not looking forward to the next day. But that's when I noodle around on the computer. So the computer's a symptom, not a cause of the anxiety, but it ends up keeping me up.
Beyond that, when I'm exhausted and just puttering around the apartment for no reason way past bedtime... I have no idea why I do that. Some sort of masochism or something.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:58 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
And I also associate it with stress, either not having gotten the things done I should have, or not looking forward to the next day. But that's when I noodle around on the computer. So the computer's a symptom, not a cause of the anxiety, but it ends up keeping me up.
Beyond that, when I'm exhausted and just puttering around the apartment for no reason way past bedtime... I have no idea why I do that. Some sort of masochism or something.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:58 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I signed up, just now, so I could comment.
And uh. Sorry. I don't have any advice, but I'm in the same boat. Possibly leaking slightly more, as I now do it at work. But instead, I just don't leave work. I'm not working, I just... don't leave. I kind of want to ask my own question, but I don't want to derail your thread.
Advice for OP that uh, works for me very sometimes:
a) You live in a dormitory right? Is there a common area?
I've got a running routine with a roommate of mine, where if they're up, or I bump into him when I should be asleep, I yawn ('cause I'm tired, and it's a routine) and say "Tell me to go to bed roommate". Roommate: "Go to bed, Elysum"
Not entirely sure why that works, but just gives me the extra little kick sometimes.
(It also works for the more serious not-leaving-work thing, contacting a friend and having them talk me through it)
b) I think I feel like I'm... searching for something? Something new? Some stimulation? And just... going to bed seems like... giving up? Or too routine? Hell, I'm just guessing here.
But, sometimes when I've been really tired - I just go to sleep on the couch/soft-non-bed place etc. Somehow that's easier, and maybe because I'm partly thinking it's just my sitting place rather than my sleeping place? I don't know, but sometimes it gets me rested at least.
Right, so - stealing the answer from someone else as a fellow sufferer - if it's avoidance? What am I avoiding? And why? And how do I deal with that? (something more than a 'just do it'?)
What if it's both tomorrow (probably work?) but equally - looking for another job? (I'd need my evenings!)
How do I get over this paralysis, when I know that it's not leading to outcomes that would be healthier and ENJOYABLE for me?
(Yes, I'm seeing a therapist, CBT, and no, it's not helping... yet?)
c) If the above is true - I suspect benzo's will work. If they work, (like they did for me *cough*) then hey, at least that's kind of a sign you're actually anxious and avoiding it? Which is useful if you didn't believe you were anxious before - now just to pin it down.
And you can't/shouldn't actually take them all the time.
By the way - the only reason I'm posting now, is because It's 5.55am and I'm still at work. I haven't done any work in at least 13 hours, I just haven't left.
(I don't know what to do...)
posted by Elysum at 10:02 AM on October 2, 2008
And uh. Sorry. I don't have any advice, but I'm in the same boat. Possibly leaking slightly more, as I now do it at work. But instead, I just don't leave work. I'm not working, I just... don't leave. I kind of want to ask my own question, but I don't want to derail your thread.
Advice for OP that uh, works for me very sometimes:
a) You live in a dormitory right? Is there a common area?
I've got a running routine with a roommate of mine, where if they're up, or I bump into him when I should be asleep, I yawn ('cause I'm tired, and it's a routine) and say "Tell me to go to bed roommate". Roommate: "Go to bed, Elysum"
Not entirely sure why that works, but just gives me the extra little kick sometimes.
(It also works for the more serious not-leaving-work thing, contacting a friend and having them talk me through it)
b) I think I feel like I'm... searching for something? Something new? Some stimulation? And just... going to bed seems like... giving up? Or too routine? Hell, I'm just guessing here.
But, sometimes when I've been really tired - I just go to sleep on the couch/soft-non-bed place etc. Somehow that's easier, and maybe because I'm partly thinking it's just my sitting place rather than my sleeping place? I don't know, but sometimes it gets me rested at least.
Right, so - stealing the answer from someone else as a fellow sufferer - if it's avoidance? What am I avoiding? And why? And how do I deal with that? (something more than a 'just do it'?)
What if it's both tomorrow (probably work?) but equally - looking for another job? (I'd need my evenings!)
How do I get over this paralysis, when I know that it's not leading to outcomes that would be healthier and ENJOYABLE for me?
(Yes, I'm seeing a therapist, CBT, and no, it's not helping... yet?)
c) If the above is true - I suspect benzo's will work. If they work, (like they did for me *cough*) then hey, at least that's kind of a sign you're actually anxious and avoiding it? Which is useful if you didn't believe you were anxious before - now just to pin it down.
And you can't/shouldn't actually take them all the time.
By the way - the only reason I'm posting now, is because It's 5.55am and I'm still at work. I haven't done any work in at least 13 hours, I just haven't left.
(I don't know what to do...)
posted by Elysum at 10:02 AM on October 2, 2008
reduce caffeine intake. I used to be like you, still messing on the computer at 11PM...
but since I stopped drinking coffee and almost eliminated sodas (switching instead to teas), I cannot help but end up in bed by 10:30.
posted by spacefire at 10:10 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
but since I stopped drinking coffee and almost eliminated sodas (switching instead to teas), I cannot help but end up in bed by 10:30.
posted by spacefire at 10:10 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Go to bed, Elysum!!
I wonder if it's hard to go to bed when you're that exhausted because it requires definite decision making. As in: 1) I am now deciding to stop what I'm doing. 2) log out of programs. 2) turn off computer 3) Change out of my clothes. 4) Clear the stuff off the top of my bed. 5) Set the alarm. 6) Go to sleep. When I'm exhausted even going to bed seems like too much of a project.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:10 AM on October 2, 2008
I wonder if it's hard to go to bed when you're that exhausted because it requires definite decision making. As in: 1) I am now deciding to stop what I'm doing. 2) log out of programs. 2) turn off computer 3) Change out of my clothes. 4) Clear the stuff off the top of my bed. 5) Set the alarm. 6) Go to sleep. When I'm exhausted even going to bed seems like too much of a project.
posted by small_ruminant at 10:10 AM on October 2, 2008
Oh, and other mefites?
If the OP is anything like me, it's not the sleeping bit that's the problem.
I'm out like a light as soon as I hit the bed, but I just keep sitting at the computer even though I can barely keep my eyes open - as OP describes
Possibly it would have been better worded 'Put me to Bed?' still a useful thread for insomniac sufferers, but not quite the same issue. Could be related?
And yes, stress and sleep-deprivation make it worse, for me at least?
That gets me into a vicious cycle where if I accidentally stay up too late on a Monday, the rest of the week spirals down into a hell pit before I can sleep all day in the weekend. Luckily I had a really good routine for Sunday evening that got me off to a good start at least. For awhile, I was trying to very consciously, leave an empty night on Wednesday or so, so that I could 'rescue' myself if I'd fallen into a bad pattern for the first few days, by actually getting an ok nights sleep.
I think that helped, but it doesn't always work. I've had enough sleep for the last two nights, and no-good.
Can you arrange it that sometime midweek is one of the nights you get home early, ie 7?
Rolling back a bit, do you think the 5 hours decompressing is always fixed? Or is it affected by sleep?
And if it is decompression time - is there anything that speeds that up?
I found that if I'd done something 'new' I kind of felt... more satisfied with my evening?
5-10 minutes noodling around on a guitar seemed to do it much better than several hours of internet trawling. But, I have a short attention span for new projects, so, the thing tends to change as I get bored. It used to be quick sketches when I was teaching myself to draw.
Sorry for my rambling, just trying to figure out what coping tactics I use, if they'd be of any help to you.
posted by Elysum at 10:18 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
If the OP is anything like me, it's not the sleeping bit that's the problem.
I'm out like a light as soon as I hit the bed, but I just keep sitting at the computer even though I can barely keep my eyes open - as OP describes
Possibly it would have been better worded 'Put me to Bed?' still a useful thread for insomniac sufferers, but not quite the same issue. Could be related?
And yes, stress and sleep-deprivation make it worse, for me at least?
That gets me into a vicious cycle where if I accidentally stay up too late on a Monday, the rest of the week spirals down into a hell pit before I can sleep all day in the weekend. Luckily I had a really good routine for Sunday evening that got me off to a good start at least. For awhile, I was trying to very consciously, leave an empty night on Wednesday or so, so that I could 'rescue' myself if I'd fallen into a bad pattern for the first few days, by actually getting an ok nights sleep.
I think that helped, but it doesn't always work. I've had enough sleep for the last two nights, and no-good.
Can you arrange it that sometime midweek is one of the nights you get home early, ie 7?
Rolling back a bit, do you think the 5 hours decompressing is always fixed? Or is it affected by sleep?
And if it is decompression time - is there anything that speeds that up?
I found that if I'd done something 'new' I kind of felt... more satisfied with my evening?
5-10 minutes noodling around on a guitar seemed to do it much better than several hours of internet trawling. But, I have a short attention span for new projects, so, the thing tends to change as I get bored. It used to be quick sketches when I was teaching myself to draw.
Sorry for my rambling, just trying to figure out what coping tactics I use, if they'd be of any help to you.
posted by Elysum at 10:18 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've had lots of trouble sleeping in the past, but have found audiobooks help a lot - I love reading, but can easily keep myself up for 8 hours doing it, especially if the book is good. Now I have an mp3 cd player beside the bed - I program it to play a few chapters, turn out the lights, get really snuggled into bed, and listen. If I'm alert, I get to enjoy listening to a book for a few hours, but if I'm tired I'm out like a light. This might work well for you, it has all the enjoyment of a good book to lure you into the sheets, without the lights-on-holding-a-heavy-book factors that can keep you awake. Librivox as lots of the classics available for free.
(incidentally, the player and my first few audiobooks were a present from my boyfriend, who wanted to help me with my sleeping problems, and is one of the best gifts I have ever been given)
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 10:21 AM on October 2, 2008
(incidentally, the player and my first few audiobooks were a present from my boyfriend, who wanted to help me with my sleeping problems, and is one of the best gifts I have ever been given)
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 10:21 AM on October 2, 2008
small_ruminant - oh. Yes?
Very much what you said.
That's why I try to catch myself before I get to this state, because once I'm here, I'm toast.
But it feels odd. Like, some parts of my brain are still awake (can carry on conversations?), but my will, motility, decision making, and well, definitely mathematical ability, have all just gone to sleep and have given up on the rest of me. The rest of me often then engages in *research* into what I should be doing, and freezes up at actually doing anything.
I'm going to... put everything away, and then go find a spare office to sleep in, and pretend I wasn't here all night. If I could send a delayed email saying I'll be in a little later that would be even better. But... that would be googling. So NO.
*eyeroll*
posted by Elysum at 10:25 AM on October 2, 2008
Very much what you said.
That's why I try to catch myself before I get to this state, because once I'm here, I'm toast.
But it feels odd. Like, some parts of my brain are still awake (can carry on conversations?), but my will, motility, decision making, and well, definitely mathematical ability, have all just gone to sleep and have given up on the rest of me. The rest of me often then engages in *research* into what I should be doing, and freezes up at actually doing anything.
I'm going to... put everything away, and then go find a spare office to sleep in, and pretend I wasn't here all night. If I could send a delayed email saying I'll be in a little later that would be even better. But... that would be googling. So NO.
*eyeroll*
posted by Elysum at 10:25 AM on October 2, 2008
This might help: when you get home, get everything ready for the next day so you don't have to do it when you're cranky. That means getting your clothes ready, packing any bags, making sure the bed is cleared off, floss/brush your teeth/deal with contacts as early as possible, etc. The goal here is to make it so that you can just climb in your bed and wake up the next morning as smoothly and with as little effort as possible.
Then, when you turn on your computer, set an alarm for, say, 10pm. Make sure it's about 30-45 minutes before you want to sleep so that you can snooze if you really, really don't want to get off the computer.
And another tip that helps me is my mp3 player -- I listen to my favorite music as I go to bed, because then I end my night on a good note (no pun intended).
This is something I have to deal with too, if it's worth any consolation. I think the reason I do it is because I'm much busier now than I have been in the past, and I've always needed a lot of "me time." It's rather unfortunate that the busier you are, the less time you get to yourself.
posted by spiderskull at 10:49 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Then, when you turn on your computer, set an alarm for, say, 10pm. Make sure it's about 30-45 minutes before you want to sleep so that you can snooze if you really, really don't want to get off the computer.
And another tip that helps me is my mp3 player -- I listen to my favorite music as I go to bed, because then I end my night on a good note (no pun intended).
This is something I have to deal with too, if it's worth any consolation. I think the reason I do it is because I'm much busier now than I have been in the past, and I've always needed a lot of "me time." It's rather unfortunate that the busier you are, the less time you get to yourself.
posted by spiderskull at 10:49 AM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
(No suggestions, just another me-too)
Well, it sure is reassuring (in a way) that there are so many of us. I also have the annoying habit of, when it gets too late, actively avoiding doing anything worthwhile or absorbing on the computer, because I'm supposed to go to sleep, after all. So I sometimes spend hours doing useless stuff, not going to sleep, not working or doing anything useful. And yes, I'd echo the feeling of, after spending a day working, not having had enough "me" time yet, so I'd feel like the day was wasted if I just went to bed. And yes, not looking forward to the next day has a lot to do with it. "I don't want it to be tomorrow yet."
Fortunately for me the habit isn't out of control, and there are some good suggestions in this thread. What I'd really like to do is to start going to bed with a book again -- I haven't done that since the internet hooked me.
posted by snarfois at 2:06 PM on October 2, 2008
Well, it sure is reassuring (in a way) that there are so many of us. I also have the annoying habit of, when it gets too late, actively avoiding doing anything worthwhile or absorbing on the computer, because I'm supposed to go to sleep, after all. So I sometimes spend hours doing useless stuff, not going to sleep, not working or doing anything useful. And yes, I'd echo the feeling of, after spending a day working, not having had enough "me" time yet, so I'd feel like the day was wasted if I just went to bed. And yes, not looking forward to the next day has a lot to do with it. "I don't want it to be tomorrow yet."
Fortunately for me the habit isn't out of control, and there are some good suggestions in this thread. What I'd really like to do is to start going to bed with a book again -- I haven't done that since the internet hooked me.
posted by snarfois at 2:06 PM on October 2, 2008
I find that turning off the lights an hour or two before bed works wonders. As soon as they go off I feel the natural melatonin production start to take off. Even switching from white to red lights late at night helps.
posted by mullingitover at 4:04 PM on October 2, 2008
posted by mullingitover at 4:04 PM on October 2, 2008
I used to do this all the danged time. All. The danged. Time. Staying up until absolutely absurdly hours reloading the same 5 websites - which don't change much - eventually getting to the point of fighting to keep your eyes open, but still not going to bed. Yes. I so hear you.
For me, it usually breaks down into one of two causes. Either:
1) I am horribly procrastinating some paper or project or test that I don't want to do, so I stay online as a way to not have to do the paper, and then when you get to the point where it's really too late to get whatever it is that you need to get done finished, then at that point you stay online not because you don't want to do the paper, but because as soon as you get offline you have to admit the fact that you're screwed.
OR
2) I would be absolutely stressed out or worried or just depressed about my life in general, and as soon as I went to bed I knew I'd have to stop looking at all the distractions (read: the internet) and there'd be nothing more to distract me from.... my life.
I totally agree with what craichead said, and also Elysum: it's not the sleeping part that's the problem, its the getting-to-bed part. In my experience, no amount of melatonin/more or less exercise/incentives would have helped - it was a totally psychological thing, and it ran way deeper than that.
posted by Quidam at 8:30 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
For me, it usually breaks down into one of two causes. Either:
1) I am horribly procrastinating some paper or project or test that I don't want to do, so I stay online as a way to not have to do the paper, and then when you get to the point where it's really too late to get whatever it is that you need to get done finished, then at that point you stay online not because you don't want to do the paper, but because as soon as you get offline you have to admit the fact that you're screwed.
OR
2) I would be absolutely stressed out or worried or just depressed about my life in general, and as soon as I went to bed I knew I'd have to stop looking at all the distractions (read: the internet) and there'd be nothing more to distract me from.... my life.
I totally agree with what craichead said, and also Elysum: it's not the sleeping part that's the problem, its the getting-to-bed part. In my experience, no amount of melatonin/more or less exercise/incentives would have helped - it was a totally psychological thing, and it ran way deeper than that.
posted by Quidam at 8:30 PM on October 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Actually, JohnnyGunn said it way more succinctly than me. I wish I could favorite his comment more than once. Seriously, there is something else going on here.
posted by Quidam at 8:33 PM on October 2, 2008
posted by Quidam at 8:33 PM on October 2, 2008
Hah. The only reason I am reading this thread is because I thought: I can make myself get in bed by taking my laptop there and reading some metafilter. (So, another "me too".) If close my laptop, I will be asleep within a minute. But I won't close it.
I'm totally going to try this Librivox out though. That sounds like a nice change from BBC World Service. Thanks [person whose name is comprised of various numbers separated by underscores].
posted by hAndrew at 10:15 PM on October 2, 2008
I'm totally going to try this Librivox out though. That sounds like a nice change from BBC World Service. Thanks [person whose name is comprised of various numbers separated by underscores].
posted by hAndrew at 10:15 PM on October 2, 2008
You need to "throw your hat over the wall," as it were. This is easier with a significant other who can keep you honest.
1. Write out a $500 check.
2. Give it to your SO / friend.
3. Tell the friend you are going to email them every morning for a month with time you went to bed.
4. If you went to bed after X o'clock, they are to cash the check immediately.
posted by blahtsk at 3:01 PM on October 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
1. Write out a $500 check.
2. Give it to your SO / friend.
3. Tell the friend you are going to email them every morning for a month with time you went to bed.
4. If you went to bed after X o'clock, they are to cash the check immediately.
posted by blahtsk at 3:01 PM on October 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Join a gym, go after work and run yourself until your tired. When you get home, DON'T turn on the computer. Schedule your Internet times so it doesn't affect your sleep. Get a program to turn of the Internet.
I shouldn't talk tho. I do the same thing. I work 6-6 every day and stay up until 12-1 O'clock most nights. On Friday and Saturday's I stay up 20-22 hours to extend the time I have outside of work. Mostly involves hanging with family during the day and playing online games with friends at night. About once a month my body protest and I sleep for 20 hours. After that I reset and I do it all over again.
posted by bleucube at 6:30 AM on October 2, 2008