Dating in the city?

September 3, 2008 1:46 PM

Help, New York! I used to love dating, until I moved to New York. Now I hate it. Can some seasoned city bachelors and bachelorettes please give me some perspective?

I moved to New York City from Portland at the beginning of the year for a job. Before that, I went to school in San Francisco, and then moved from there to Chicago for three years. Having participated in the dating scene of all three cities, I've had a few great relationships, one or two ill-advised flings, and some not-fun but manageable amount of heartache normal for my age. When I moved to New York, I focused most of my energies into adjusting to the new lifestyle and didn't worry much about dating until I got on my feet. I am now pretty settled in my routine as a work-at-home graphic designer and have decided it's time to meet people.

But things are... different here. Maybe it's my insecurity, but I feel as if this place is so overpopulated with beautiful, talented women and men who are confused about how to treat them, and what do when they're all clamoring for male attention. Whereas before I fared pretty well with men, the guys I'd normally approach won't give me the time of day here. I'm now aware that the bars I frequent in my neighborhood of Williamsburg are unabashed meat markets. I'm attractive woman, and I value intellect in myself and in others. I'm friendly, and have never had trouble making friends. I don't calibrate my self-worth on male attention. But as dating does require some form of male attention, I'm agog over how these men have armies of eligible women to choose from. It's scary.

I'm not desperate, or marriage-hungry: I just want to have some mid-twenties fun, and maybe meet someone great, or maybe just get dinner. I've already realized Williamsburg bars probably aren't a great place to start, but what else should I know? Is this just a phase? Am I imagining this whole jungle? How do you people meet each other here?

I'm a 26 straight woman, and a freelance designer/illustrator, if that helps.

posted by anonymous to human relations (20 comments total)

New York is a numbers game, dating wise. Just make it clear you're looking and you'll get some male attention. Whether it's the guy you want is another story entirely. But this city is big enough that nobody has to be celibate involuntarily.
posted by jonmc at 1:50 PM on September 3, 2008

Also, Williamsburg is a very trendy area and overflowing with young, artsy types. You may want to hang out in a less singles-cruise type area.
posted by jonmc at 1:51 PM on September 3, 2008

Whereas before I fared pretty well with men, the guys I'd normally approach won't give me the time of day here.

The guys you'd "normally approach"- does that mean you're not approaching them now? A lot of the language in your post points to you psyching yourself out before you even get out there. You're looking around and seeing other people who look good and assuming that there isn't a place in "the scene: for you. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. If there isn't, find a new scene. That's what I love about New York- endless scenes, endless places you can go where you're brand new. Get out of the bars in your neighborhood, do things where you can rub shoulders with other people, say hello, and then listen- nothing is sexier than a good listener.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:00 PM on September 3, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

Am I imagining this whole jungle?

Yes? That's what it sounds like. Your issues are:

this place is so overpopulated with beautiful, talented women

The beautiful, talented women are in equal proportion to the beautful, talented men. There are also tons of unattractive, untalented people of both genders. This isn't postwar New Zealand; the gender numbers are pretty much equal.

I'm now aware that the bars I frequent in my neighborhood of Williamsburg are unabashed meat markets.

There are so many bars in the city, with such different vibes, that you can't possibly lay the blame for this on Williamsburg or even New York as a whole. If a place has a meat-market-y vibe, go somewhere else. For every Union Pool, there's a nearby Redd's.

But maybe you dislike the idea of meeting someone at a bar at all? Do you go to small shows much? Music's a nice alternative to drinking.
posted by Greg Nog at 2:18 PM on September 3, 2008

No advice, but some commiseration. In the last 5 years here in a town of 150,000 I've had probably 10 times as many successful dates as I did in the 5 years I lived in New York. I met a few guys through work or friends there, but didn't have nearly the success that I've had here. My solution was to leave NYC, obviously, but hopefully you'll find some good advice.
posted by MsMolly at 2:19 PM on September 3, 2008

The beautiful, talented women are in equal proportion to the beautful, talented men. There are also tons of unattractive, untalented people of both genders. This isn't postwar New Zealand; the gender numbers are pretty much equal.

Dude, beautiful, talented men and women come to NYC to become stars. They don't all become stars, so what they do is mate and create beautiful kids, thus irrevocably tilting the playing field, at least in the hep artistic areas. So somebody who might be glamorous and gorgeous in Sheboygan is just another schlub. It's like the class valedictorian's arrival at Harvard. Again, this is confined mainly to certain neighborhoods, go to other areas and you might as well be anywhere in the world just with more acess to late-night Chinese take-out and better pizza.
posted by jonmc at 2:23 PM on September 3, 2008

E.B. White said there are three New Yorks - the city of those born here (waving to my fellow townies), the city of those who work here, and the city of those who came here to make it big in something. You may have been focusing your attention on a subset of the last group, and have found them less than welcoming - well that's not a surprise, they're young, busy and so engrossed in their scenes that they're unlikely to notice someone not focused on the same things. Try getting involved in stuff that would cause your social circle to involve people you wouldn't normally run into - looks like you're a creative type - maybe playing in a softball league that has lots of corporate/wall street types in it, using a city parks and recs facility instead of NYSC/Crunch, or getting involved in things that hipsters wouldn't normally think of doing (the sailing school on Flushing Meadows lake in Queens? Maybe volunteering on Staten Island rather than Brooklyn or Manhattan) - there's a whole ton of stuff going on that never makes the blogs because the people doing them aren't particularly young, fabulous or cool - but there may be someone you find interesting.
posted by Calloused_Foot at 3:02 PM on September 3, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

E.B. White said there are three New Yorks - the city of those born here (waving to my fellow townies), the city of those who work here, and the city of those who came here to make it big in something.

and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Once you realize that NYC is basically Byzantium, navigating it socially becomes paradoxically easier.
posted by jonmc at 3:09 PM on September 3, 2008

You're half-psyching yourself and half-correct. Never, ever bother trying to meet worthwhile men at a Williamsburg bar. Not that they're not around, but they're going to be muddled in with all the cocky hipsters who use girls for sex. It's not worth the effort separating the wheat from the chaff.

The dating scene gets easier to negotiate with time and experience. At first you have this palsying "How will I ever survive this?" phase (which applies to nearly everything you first feel while learning NYC--subway riding, jobs, friends, dating, bicycling) and then that anxiety unfurls into a sense of well-being and confidence. But maybe that's the euphoria of the truly delusional, and sometimes I think one needs to be a little mad to stick with this city.
posted by zoomorphic at 3:24 PM on September 3, 2008

This isn't postwar New Zealand; the gender numbers are pretty much equal.


I always wondered about the veracity of this map. Has Metafilter picked this thing apart yet?
posted by zoomorphic at 3:28 PM on September 3, 2008

A quote from one of my favorite books (How to Lose Friends and Alienate People by Toby Young):

When American women complain that there's a shortage of eligible men--and Leah McLaren is no exception--what they mean is there's a shortage of tall, unattached, rich men who still have their own hair.

The converse parts of what jonmc said is that you might need to have a look at your expectations. I could decide that I would only date women who are 6 ft tall, 110 lbs with black hair and blue eyes, and it might not seem so crazy because when I'm out in public, there are at least 5 such people in eyesight at all times. But what kind of people could you interest in Sheboygan?

This isn't a rant, I think dating in NY was pretty fun (then again I'm a guy). But I have loads of friends of both sexes here who I think have unreasonable expectations. I've taken to calling it the Seinfeld problem, for obvious reasons.
posted by overhauser at 3:54 PM on September 3, 2008

I beg to disagree with Greg Nog.
New York attracts a higher proportion of beautiful young women and beautiful gay men.
Straight guys definitely have the advantage here!
Thus, they will be pickier.
posted by spacefire at 4:55 PM on September 3, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

Am I imagining this whole jungle?

I hate to be cynical, but I'm born and raised in Manhattan, 42 and single at least in part because of the ridiculous numbers of amazing young women here who will date an aging nerd like me.

NYC rewards ambitious men and beautiful women, so that's who flock here. The straight men in NYC are not on average much better-looking than the average American man, but the women sure are!

This means that even after all the tycoons, chefs, rock stars, and Salman Rushdie are dating models, there are a bunch of superfluous beautiful women who then date the most interesting and attractive of the non-rich non-musicians. And, if they're keeping their options open in case a rich guy becomes available, they offer low-commitment fun that's hard to compete with.
posted by Now I'm Prune Tracy! at 5:05 PM on September 3, 2008 [5 favorites has favorites]

Hey, I'm an attractive mid-twenties girl in NYC. I got sick of the bar scene two years ago and gave online dating a try and found it to be very useful. Okcupid was a great way for me to meet guys who had similar interests as me, and who were looking for more than a one night lay. I met my boyfriend and we've been dating for a year and a half, and moved in together a few months ago. Since then I've talked to a lot of people who either met their S.O. online, or who asked me where I met such a great guy, since they were coming up empty at the bars. There are definitely a bunch of guys who are overwhelmed by the bar-dating scene too. Or at least I never had any trouble getting dates with attractive and intelligent guys. Plus you get to vet people a little in advance. I feel like in NYC at least, the stigma has gone out of online dating, and it is worth a shot if you haven't tried it.
posted by amileighs at 5:24 PM on September 3, 2008

I always wondered about the veracity of this map.

Holy crap! Maybe I was wrong, then; I've been living in eclecticladyland!

So, okay -- a lot of my friends have gotten together through mutual acquaintances, which means that your best bet is to come the next metafilter meetup, which I'm sure will include a number of us who know some lovely single dudes.
posted by Greg Nog at 5:38 PM on September 3, 2008

I asked a question last week about making friends with women, and while our inquiries seem diametrically opposed, they have a lot of underlying parallels. Everyone in New York has to compete with some of the brightest, most ruthless, and most well-connected individuals on the planet. Women are doubly tested because we're held up to tyrannical beauty standards and hyper-sexualization rivaled only by Hollywood itself. We frequently feel frazzled by competition, crappy body images, and alienation. That sounds incredibly grim, and while I don't trudge on the subway each day feeling like I'm playing my own private game of chutes and ladders, it can suck to feel like your personal life is just as competitive as your professional world. You're not alone.

You don't say whether or not you have a strong social group, but a network of friends who've got your back will help you negotiate New York's interpersonal mazes. Dating is hard when you don't have friends first. Greg Nog's right about the meet-up: we're good people, and it can't hurt to branch out.
posted by zoomorphic at 7:03 PM on September 3, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

I got sick of the bar scene two years ago and gave online dating a try and found it to be very useful.

Whereas I can't get a guy to give me the time of freakin' day on online dating. seriously, I have a cute enough profile, but no one -- and I mean NO ONE -- is responding. 200 have looked, no one's said boo.

....Sorry, I got a little bitter there for a second. And i HAVE had luck with it in the past which baffles me.

Online dating IS an option, but it's not a total panacea, is all.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:31 PM on September 3, 2008

And i HAVE had luck with it in the past which baffles me.

I had the same experience. I wonder if it's age? When I was 23 I could put my profile up when I was feeling blue, and overnight get 15 messages telling me how hot I looked in my picture. I tried it again at 26 after a breakup and guess what? No hits. Same pix, same profile. I wonder if all the guys were searching for under-25's.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice for the OP. The dating thing really got me feeling down on myself once I was in my late 20's, so I got back with my ex. That was three years ago and things have actually worked out swimmingly, so thank you, New York dating scene, for being so goddamn awful and driving me back into his arms!
posted by jillsy_sloper at 9:53 PM on September 3, 2008

I had the same experience. I wonder if it's age? When I was 23 I could put my profile up when I was feeling blue, and overnight get 15 messages telling me how hot I looked in my picture. I tried it again at 26 after a breakup and guess what? No hits.

....I'm 38. This does not bode well for me.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:54 AM on September 4, 2008

I second not trying to meet people in Billyburg... and don't discount the gay factor, even if the numbers are equal, there are just soo many gay men in the City that the straight ones can pick women waay out of their league.

Also seconding meeting people with similiar interests as yours, even if they aren't available, they will most likely have friends that are.
posted by cestmoi15 at 9:05 AM on September 4, 2008