I'm trying to get back on the horse but I wonder if he's really an ass.
March 17, 2008 7:13 AM Subscribe
After a four-year relationship ended disastrously, early last year, I've developed an interest in someone. The problem? A reliable source describes this guy as a complete douchebag. Given that I was previously badly burned, do I go out with this guy whose reputation precedes him?
Early last year I walked out on my SO after discovering he had been cheating on me. With multiple women. I moved into my own apartment, he left town, and I have spent the intervening year+ tending to myself and trying to get back on my feet with no thoughts of a next relationship. In fact, the idea of getting involved with someone had started to seem remote and well, repulsive. And now a guy has come along. He is wicked smart, very funny, very attractive (to me). I met him through work and felt that immediate . . . thing. So we made a date. Which is coming up.
In the meantime, a friend of mine (gay guy) happened to mention this guy to someone else he knows (another gay guy) and was told that the object of my awakening affection is a merciless player, a real tool, and dangerous to women (which I could sort of sense--because of his easy charm--but had no idea his reputation was this bad). Way to go, me. (I mention that these guys are gay to remove the possibility that there's a woman scorned--or some other vengeful behavior--at the source of the rumors.) So now I wonder if I should spare myself whatever crap lies ahead and cancel on the date? Go on the date and form an independent opinion, colored as it will be with what I found out? Protect myself? Take a chance, which I haven't done for years? I should say that I am not interested in casual sex and don't tend to sleep with people that I wouldn't want to have a relationship with. So I don't know that I can follow my girlfriends' advice of, go out, have a good time, don't expect anything, enjoy the attention. I worry that I will really like him and then I'll be in for yet another disaster.
Are people really innocent until proven guilty? When does self-protection become a limiting fear? Or, more basically, should I, a 41-yr-old woman with her shit together, even go out with this guy once?
Early last year I walked out on my SO after discovering he had been cheating on me. With multiple women. I moved into my own apartment, he left town, and I have spent the intervening year+ tending to myself and trying to get back on my feet with no thoughts of a next relationship. In fact, the idea of getting involved with someone had started to seem remote and well, repulsive. And now a guy has come along. He is wicked smart, very funny, very attractive (to me). I met him through work and felt that immediate . . . thing. So we made a date. Which is coming up.
In the meantime, a friend of mine (gay guy) happened to mention this guy to someone else he knows (another gay guy) and was told that the object of my awakening affection is a merciless player, a real tool, and dangerous to women (which I could sort of sense--because of his easy charm--but had no idea his reputation was this bad). Way to go, me. (I mention that these guys are gay to remove the possibility that there's a woman scorned--or some other vengeful behavior--at the source of the rumors.) So now I wonder if I should spare myself whatever crap lies ahead and cancel on the date? Go on the date and form an independent opinion, colored as it will be with what I found out? Protect myself? Take a chance, which I haven't done for years? I should say that I am not interested in casual sex and don't tend to sleep with people that I wouldn't want to have a relationship with. So I don't know that I can follow my girlfriends' advice of, go out, have a good time, don't expect anything, enjoy the attention. I worry that I will really like him and then I'll be in for yet another disaster.
Are people really innocent until proven guilty? When does self-protection become a limiting fear? Or, more basically, should I, a 41-yr-old woman with her shit together, even go out with this guy once?
I worry that I will really like him and then I'll be in for yet another disaster.
If liking a guy means you will not be able to examine him rationally for who he is, then no, don't go out wit him. That said, everyone has haters, and I would be inclined to go on one date to see for myself.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:23 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
If liking a guy means you will not be able to examine him rationally for who he is, then no, don't go out wit him. That said, everyone has haters, and I would be inclined to go on one date to see for myself.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:23 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
No. The gay guys seem to have no reason to mislead you, you could already "sort of sense" that he was a bad guy, and you've already demonstrated through your previous disastrous relationship that you have a weakness for bad men. The more time you spend with the new bad guy, the more you will be attracted to him. Listen to your better judgment and avoid him.
Another thing that concerns me: 41 years old and hasn't found a good guy yet implies (without knowing anything else about your personal history) that you might have some issues. Maybe you need to think about and work on (counseling, self help books, introspection, etc.) what is stopping you from finding a LTR/marriage with a good man.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:26 AM on March 17, 2008
Another thing that concerns me: 41 years old and hasn't found a good guy yet implies (without knowing anything else about your personal history) that you might have some issues. Maybe you need to think about and work on (counseling, self help books, introspection, etc.) what is stopping you from finding a LTR/marriage with a good man.
posted by Jacqueline at 7:26 AM on March 17, 2008
Hell no.
So I don't know that I can follow my girlfriends' advice of, go out, have a good time, don't expect anything, enjoy the attention.
Enjoy the attention of a player who's intentions are far from golden? Is that going to make you feel better?
Holding yourself to higher standards will make you feel better, believe me.
posted by hydrophonic at 7:26 AM on March 17, 2008
So I don't know that I can follow my girlfriends' advice of, go out, have a good time, don't expect anything, enjoy the attention.
Enjoy the attention of a player who's intentions are far from golden? Is that going to make you feel better?
Holding yourself to higher standards will make you feel better, believe me.
posted by hydrophonic at 7:26 AM on March 17, 2008
Of course go out with him. Form your own opinion. People sometimes get reputations they don't deserve. Be an adult, don't listen to gossip, and judge for yourself. You don't want to miss a good opportunity just because of hearsay.
posted by greta simone at 7:27 AM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by greta simone at 7:27 AM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]
dangerous to women
Clearly this is a question about risk vs reward. You have to take some risks to get anything worth having, but on the other hand, some other risks are never worth taking. So, boringly, the answer to this question has surely got to be "it's a judgment call based on the available evidence".
When you say "dangerous": are you talking about specific evidence of tool-ness? Evidence that he might be violent? Or just a friend of a friend gossiping about a third party (gossip which, by the way, is no less likely to be caused by some ulterior motive just because the gossiper is gay)? There isn't a blanket answer here based on some grand philosophy of how to live your life. It depends on the specifics. (FWIW, if you hadn't used the word "dangerous" I'd be totally on the "go check him out" side. So it partly depends on how you meant that word to come across.)
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 7:32 AM on March 17, 2008
Clearly this is a question about risk vs reward. You have to take some risks to get anything worth having, but on the other hand, some other risks are never worth taking. So, boringly, the answer to this question has surely got to be "it's a judgment call based on the available evidence".
When you say "dangerous": are you talking about specific evidence of tool-ness? Evidence that he might be violent? Or just a friend of a friend gossiping about a third party (gossip which, by the way, is no less likely to be caused by some ulterior motive just because the gossiper is gay)? There isn't a blanket answer here based on some grand philosophy of how to live your life. It depends on the specifics. (FWIW, if you hadn't used the word "dangerous" I'd be totally on the "go check him out" side. So it partly depends on how you meant that word to come across.)
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 7:32 AM on March 17, 2008
find someone with less easy charm and more forthrightness.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:37 AM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 7:37 AM on March 17, 2008 [3 favorites]
It is fortunate that you have friends willing to look out for you in this regard; I've been a spectator to many situations similar to what you describe where there was no outside indication prior to engagement or marriage, or where the forewarning was ignored. In my opinion, having been forewarned it would be irresponsible to ignore it, I'd recommend calling off the date.
posted by The Confessor at 7:38 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by The Confessor at 7:38 AM on March 17, 2008
Sounds to me like the guy isn't worth the risk. Why not wait for someone who comes without warning flags?
posted by languagehat at 7:38 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by languagehat at 7:38 AM on March 17, 2008
If you're the kind who can't go out on one date with a guy without picking out china patterns in your head by the end of the evening, you should probably go the prevention route and break the date. If you can force yourself into the "one date does not equal relationship" mindset, and want to see if his reputation is undeserved, go on one date.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:41 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:41 AM on March 17, 2008
A date is just a date, you're not committing to him in any way. You might have a fun evening and still find out that yes, the guy is a tool. I definitely avoid sleeping with him and just go out for a casual date; it can't hurt. Unless the "dangerous" thing is literal, then avoid him like the plague, I'd say.
posted by robinrs at 7:47 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by robinrs at 7:47 AM on March 17, 2008
My two cents: I was one very attracted to this guy named, uh, "Ken." Everyone warned me about Ken, who had a terrible reputation as a player. According to them, hooking up with Ken could only result in STDs and a shattered life of regret. I didn't ignore this advice, but I took it with a grain of salt and decided to trust my own experience of Ken. We were friends for a while, and I discovered that the rumors about him were false and that he was actually an incredibly nice guy with a lot of integrity. We had a wonderful relationship that lasted more than a year, and I doubt we would have broken up if he hadn’t enlisted in the armed forces.
In other words, remember that your friend may not have perfect knowledge of this guy. He’s telling you the truth as he knows it, but where does his information come from, and how reliable is it? Then again, it sounds like you sensed something a little off yourself. If it were me, I’d go out with him and try to get to know him. If he reveals himself to be a d-bag, then don’t go out with him again. Trust yourself!
Anyway, one date will not ruin your life. And, of course, run at the first real sign of sketch.
posted by prefpara at 7:51 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
In other words, remember that your friend may not have perfect knowledge of this guy. He’s telling you the truth as he knows it, but where does his information come from, and how reliable is it? Then again, it sounds like you sensed something a little off yourself. If it were me, I’d go out with him and try to get to know him. If he reveals himself to be a d-bag, then don’t go out with him again. Trust yourself!
Anyway, one date will not ruin your life. And, of course, run at the first real sign of sketch.
posted by prefpara at 7:51 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I am not interested in casual sex and don't tend to sleep with people that I wouldn't want to have a relationship with. So I don't know that I can follow my girlfriends' advice of, go out, have a good time, don't expect anything, enjoy the attention.
I know it's been a while since I've been on the market, but whatever happened to going on a date without sleeping with the person? If one date will invariably lead to sex, then maybe you can find other ways to "hang out" and get to know him a little better before you go on a sex-having date. Go out for lunch, grab coffee, go to go a hockey game, get to know him and form your own opinion. If there are red flags, hopefully you would spot them before you get in too deeply. And if he really is the player he's rumored to be, he'll quickly tire of the friend stage and split before you can get hurt.
posted by boomchicka at 7:58 AM on March 17, 2008
I know it's been a while since I've been on the market, but whatever happened to going on a date without sleeping with the person? If one date will invariably lead to sex, then maybe you can find other ways to "hang out" and get to know him a little better before you go on a sex-having date. Go out for lunch, grab coffee, go to go a hockey game, get to know him and form your own opinion. If there are red flags, hopefully you would spot them before you get in too deeply. And if he really is the player he's rumored to be, he'll quickly tire of the friend stage and split before you can get hurt.
posted by boomchicka at 7:58 AM on March 17, 2008
I'm going to buck the trend and say, go ahead and go out with him. After all, you are going into this with your eyes wide open.
Don't, by any means, consider a relationship with anyone at this point, because you still seem very vulnerable.
But if this guy and his easy charm can make you feel good, flatter you, make you laugh, then go ahead and go out with him for your own sake. It's okay to be a little selfish here; I doubt he's looking for anything serious, and neither should you be.
My whole approach with him would be, "Hey, we both know you are saying what you think I want to hear, and that's okay as long as you realize you're not getting anywhere with me. So let's just have some fun and enjoy the ride."
If you can't handle hanging out with this guy on that level right now, though, then go with the consensus here and stay away from him.
posted by misha at 8:01 AM on March 17, 2008
Don't, by any means, consider a relationship with anyone at this point, because you still seem very vulnerable.
But if this guy and his easy charm can make you feel good, flatter you, make you laugh, then go ahead and go out with him for your own sake. It's okay to be a little selfish here; I doubt he's looking for anything serious, and neither should you be.
My whole approach with him would be, "Hey, we both know you are saying what you think I want to hear, and that's okay as long as you realize you're not getting anywhere with me. So let's just have some fun and enjoy the ride."
If you can't handle hanging out with this guy on that level right now, though, then go with the consensus here and stay away from him.
posted by misha at 8:01 AM on March 17, 2008
No no no no no no no no no no no. If risk-taking is what you'd like, answer a personals ad. There's no reason to take a chance on a charming player, especially since your last relationship ended as it did. You're attracted to these sorts of men, apparently, which is all the more reason to stay away.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:02 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:02 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, while going out on a completely casual, non-committal date might be a fun and seemingly harmless idea, a person with so much charm and such a bad reputation is probably quite manipulative (and hell, for some people, charm and a bad reputation is a selling point!). I realize that you're a grown woman who can take care of herself, but I maintain that it's a good idea to not get into bad situations in the first place.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:06 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:06 AM on March 17, 2008
Another benefit of taking it slowly is that it will give you time to build up your confidence and your guard, both of which sound like they need some fortification. If this guy really is the sharp-eyed player he's rumored to be, he's most likely already spotted vulnerabilities that you probably don't even realize you're giving off. So until you're ready to (a) spot red flags and (b) tell him right where to go if required, you shouldn't put yourself in the position to really fall for him.
posted by boomchicka at 8:07 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by boomchicka at 8:07 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
So wait, your friend was told by his friend about this guy? Do you even know this other friend to value/not value their opinion? I always go with "consider the source." That source seems kind of removed for me to call off the date all together.
Give the new guy a chance, sure your guard is up, but judge for yourself.
FWIW, I learned the whole, "consider the source" life lesson in college:
Me:I don't know if I should take XYZ class with Professor Smart.
Person A: Yikes, don't do that, I hated Professor Smart.
Person B: Yes, do it! I loved Professor Smart.
Turns out Professor Smart taught a very hands-on class. Person A had a preference for lecture style courses, Person B had a preference for hands-on courses. Neither was right/wrong, they just gave me advice based on their own experiences and preferences.
posted by NoraCharles at 8:13 AM on March 17, 2008
Give the new guy a chance, sure your guard is up, but judge for yourself.
FWIW, I learned the whole, "consider the source" life lesson in college:
Me:I don't know if I should take XYZ class with Professor Smart.
Person A: Yikes, don't do that, I hated Professor Smart.
Person B: Yes, do it! I loved Professor Smart.
Turns out Professor Smart taught a very hands-on class. Person A had a preference for lecture style courses, Person B had a preference for hands-on courses. Neither was right/wrong, they just gave me advice based on their own experiences and preferences.
posted by NoraCharles at 8:13 AM on March 17, 2008
If I pre-judged every new acquaintance/friend/potential partner by the gossip I could dig up on them before I spent any time with them, I'd be pretty lonely. YMMV.
posted by xanthippe at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by xanthippe at 8:26 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you're strong enough and well enough emotionally now to know what's good for you and make the right choices, then maybe you can give it a shot. No obligations, no falling for him, no getting caught up.
But honestly, if your very last relationship was that way, and you can see that this guy fits the archetype you are trying to get away from, why exactly are you considering it? Realize that if you do end up going out with and being with an asshole like the one described above, you are about to take a step towards perpetuating a terrifying trend in your life that hasn't even started.
posted by crunch buttsteak at 8:27 AM on March 17, 2008
But honestly, if your very last relationship was that way, and you can see that this guy fits the archetype you are trying to get away from, why exactly are you considering it? Realize that if you do end up going out with and being with an asshole like the one described above, you are about to take a step towards perpetuating a terrifying trend in your life that hasn't even started.
posted by crunch buttsteak at 8:27 AM on March 17, 2008
But if this guy and his easy charm can make you feel good, flatter you, make you laugh, then go ahead and go out with him for your own sake. It's okay to be a little selfish here; I doubt he's looking for anything serious, and neither should you be.
See, the trouble with this approach is that the merciless player type is very good at sucking women in, and is used to slipping past raised guards. Essentially he's a conman who specializes in seducing women, and unless you've been taken by a true conman, you have no idea how good they are at what they do. I have (been taken for money), and if you think just being sensible and cautious is sufficient protection, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Or what Sticherbeast said.
posted by languagehat at 8:50 AM on March 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
See, the trouble with this approach is that the merciless player type is very good at sucking women in, and is used to slipping past raised guards. Essentially he's a conman who specializes in seducing women, and unless you've been taken by a true conman, you have no idea how good they are at what they do. I have (been taken for money), and if you think just being sensible and cautious is sufficient protection, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.
Or what Sticherbeast said.
posted by languagehat at 8:50 AM on March 17, 2008 [5 favorites]
It's a date, not a commitment. Go for it, with open eyes and your guard up and try to have fun just hanging out with him for a bit. See where it goes. At most it's just a couple hours of your life and who knows, you might enjoy his company.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:51 AM on March 17, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:51 AM on March 17, 2008
You've said plainly that you don't want a casual relationship, that you're in a long period of feeling vulnerable, and that this guy has warning flags IDENTICAL to the problems you just had in a long-term relationship. Three strikes before the first date.
Your shit is not entirely together yet. That's ok. You won't get it together if you ignore your better instincts. You don't need to shut yourself off from the world, but you do need to take care of yourself. "Just giving this a try" sounds inappropriate to your situation as you describe it.
Curing the worry that men are douchebags starts by at least avoiding dates with reputed douchebags. People with avoidance problems say things like "I can't date anyone for fear they'll hurt me." People with sensible caution ask questions like "I just dated a douchebag. Should I try it again?"
When you find a nice guy, you won't be asking whether you should date him. If you do - get counseling. For right now, this ain't worth it.
posted by dosterm at 9:05 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Your shit is not entirely together yet. That's ok. You won't get it together if you ignore your better instincts. You don't need to shut yourself off from the world, but you do need to take care of yourself. "Just giving this a try" sounds inappropriate to your situation as you describe it.
Curing the worry that men are douchebags starts by at least avoiding dates with reputed douchebags. People with avoidance problems say things like "I can't date anyone for fear they'll hurt me." People with sensible caution ask questions like "I just dated a douchebag. Should I try it again?"
When you find a nice guy, you won't be asking whether you should date him. If you do - get counseling. For right now, this ain't worth it.
posted by dosterm at 9:05 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wow, I'm glad my fiance didn't take his friend's advice and run away from me because of some stupid third-hand information that had been completely taken out of context. We've been together almost 5 years now, and are wonderfully happy.
Take what people say with a grain of salt. Go out with the guy, have fun, but keep his reputation in mind. Just keep your guard up a little, and don't sleep with him right away.
posted by thejanna at 9:05 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Take what people say with a grain of salt. Go out with the guy, have fun, but keep his reputation in mind. Just keep your guard up a little, and don't sleep with him right away.
posted by thejanna at 9:05 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
It took a really long time for me to realize that "that immediate... thing" I felt with a lot of guys was just them pouring on the charm. Take those sparks you feel with a grain of salt.
If you really do have your shit together, you'll listen to what you "sort of sense" already. It's really, really easy to ignore big dealbreaky red flags when you're smitten.
I don't think you should get involved with this guy. I probably wouldn't cancel the date, but keep your guard up, and don't take it any further. And be prepared to tell him no if he keeps pursuing you, because chances are good he might.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:32 AM on March 17, 2008
If you really do have your shit together, you'll listen to what you "sort of sense" already. It's really, really easy to ignore big dealbreaky red flags when you're smitten.
I don't think you should get involved with this guy. I probably wouldn't cancel the date, but keep your guard up, and don't take it any further. And be prepared to tell him no if he keeps pursuing you, because chances are good he might.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:32 AM on March 17, 2008
Jacqueline: 41 years old and hasn't found a good guy yet implies (without knowing anything else about your personal history) that you might have some issues. Maybe you need to think about and work on (counseling, self help books, introspection, etc.) what is stopping you from finding a LTR/marriage with a good man.
Please do not listen to this at all. Being 41 and not having yet settled down with "a good man" does not mean you have "issues". People have different priorities and paths in life, and that is all. It sounds like there's nothing wrong with you -- you're watching out for yourself. Trust your instincts.
posted by loiseau at 9:51 AM on March 17, 2008 [10 favorites]
Please do not listen to this at all. Being 41 and not having yet settled down with "a good man" does not mean you have "issues". People have different priorities and paths in life, and that is all. It sounds like there's nothing wrong with you -- you're watching out for yourself. Trust your instincts.
posted by loiseau at 9:51 AM on March 17, 2008 [10 favorites]
I think the main missing data point is how often you meet someone you're interested by. I have some friends who develop a new crush every few weeks, whereas I have only rarely actually been excited by a potential date and wouldn't want to let a possibility slip by based on second hand stories. If there are lots of fish in the sea for you, why bother with the risk? But if finding someone you really like is a narrower road in your life, then I'd give the person a chance. How someone behaved may seem assholish from one side and perfectly reasonable from another. And even if it was objectively, regrettably dickish, people can be dicks with one person and sweethearts with someone else - depends on a lot of factors.
I feel like you should be able to tell if you are just enjoying the flattery of his charm & good looks or if you really think there is an interesting, caring person you want to get to know here, to some extent. You say you want a long term relationship, not just a casual encounter and some fleeting attention, so to just "let go" and "enjoy the attention" seems senseless. If you don't think this will go anywhere, and you don't enjoy non-serious relationships, there is no reason to pursue it. Don't "take it one day at a time" - that's how you'll end up wondering how the hell you ended up getting burned again. Honestly assess your needs, your likelihood of meeting those needs elsewhere, and your capacity to think rationally when faced with sexy mr charmer.
Personally, I would go on the date because, being overly rational, I tend not to be emotionally/sexually swept away by people often enough, and I tend to be quite able to retreat and consider things skeptically (probably exactly why I don't get swept away often enough...). Payoff high, risk low. But if your nature is more emotionally or sexually driven, where you may be able to find plenty of other potential dates just as good (lower payoff) or where you may be less analytic in the way you respond to his moves (higher risk), then it's probably the wrong choice.
posted by mdn at 10:01 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I feel like you should be able to tell if you are just enjoying the flattery of his charm & good looks or if you really think there is an interesting, caring person you want to get to know here, to some extent. You say you want a long term relationship, not just a casual encounter and some fleeting attention, so to just "let go" and "enjoy the attention" seems senseless. If you don't think this will go anywhere, and you don't enjoy non-serious relationships, there is no reason to pursue it. Don't "take it one day at a time" - that's how you'll end up wondering how the hell you ended up getting burned again. Honestly assess your needs, your likelihood of meeting those needs elsewhere, and your capacity to think rationally when faced with sexy mr charmer.
Personally, I would go on the date because, being overly rational, I tend not to be emotionally/sexually swept away by people often enough, and I tend to be quite able to retreat and consider things skeptically (probably exactly why I don't get swept away often enough...). Payoff high, risk low. But if your nature is more emotionally or sexually driven, where you may be able to find plenty of other potential dates just as good (lower payoff) or where you may be less analytic in the way you respond to his moves (higher risk), then it's probably the wrong choice.
posted by mdn at 10:01 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
When I have questions like this, I usually think, "If you gotta ask ..."
There are other charming men out there. Find one who's not the subject of rumors of his bad treatment of women. Why risk undoing all the hard work you've done this year?
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:05 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
There are other charming men out there. Find one who's not the subject of rumors of his bad treatment of women. Why risk undoing all the hard work you've done this year?
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:05 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Seconding that you should not cancel your date based on third-hand information about what a player the guy supposedly is.
Look, even if he were The Nicest Most Boyfriend-Material Guy in The Whole Wide World, I'd tell you to watch your back and your heart, since you're acutely aware that you are "trying to get back on the horse." Those super-duper nice guys aren't always what they seem, either.
That your sources are gay don't really make them any more reliable than any other gossip, which is what this is. Unless by "dangerous" they mean "physical violence," let's not get hysterical.
So, I dated this guy. The guy with the bad rep, the supposed asshole player who is a manipulative tool and left a string of broken hearts, blah blah blah. He wasn't. He was a wicked smart, funny guy who had a low threshold for bullshit. (And had dated some drama-prone girls. And had gasp! had mutually-agreeable casual sex with some other girls.)
Go on the date and see what you think. Watch for signs of voodoo. Of course keep your guard up. This may all be moot -- you two might have ten minutes of conversation before you figure out that there's not much there there.
posted by desuetude at 10:11 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
Look, even if he were The Nicest Most Boyfriend-Material Guy in The Whole Wide World, I'd tell you to watch your back and your heart, since you're acutely aware that you are "trying to get back on the horse." Those super-duper nice guys aren't always what they seem, either.
That your sources are gay don't really make them any more reliable than any other gossip, which is what this is. Unless by "dangerous" they mean "physical violence," let's not get hysterical.
So, I dated this guy. The guy with the bad rep, the supposed asshole player who is a manipulative tool and left a string of broken hearts, blah blah blah. He wasn't. He was a wicked smart, funny guy who had a low threshold for bullshit. (And had dated some drama-prone girls. And had gasp! had mutually-agreeable casual sex with some other girls.)
Go on the date and see what you think. Watch for signs of voodoo. Of course keep your guard up. This may all be moot -- you two might have ten minutes of conversation before you figure out that there's not much there there.
posted by desuetude at 10:11 AM on March 17, 2008 [2 favorites]
it's a date, not an arranged marriage, jesus christ. if anonymous says she's got her shit together, why shouldn't she go and see for herself if the guy is a douchebag? those who assume that women are trembling delicate little dumb flowers in constant danger of being conned by some evil douchebag Don Juan may either be projecting, or may simply be clueless about what's happening in the world out there.
anonymous says she's not interested in casual sex, O.K., but I still don't see why she shouldn't go out on a date, who the fuck would that guy turn out to be, Jeffrey Dahmer in a George Clooney rubber mask? come on.
posted by matteo at 10:38 AM on March 17, 2008
anonymous says she's not interested in casual sex, O.K., but I still don't see why she shouldn't go out on a date, who the fuck would that guy turn out to be, Jeffrey Dahmer in a George Clooney rubber mask? come on.
posted by matteo at 10:38 AM on March 17, 2008
Jacqueline seems to be a bad advice streak today. 1st, you gotta make your own calls in life. 2nd, if you can't think for yourself in a situation where you are forewarned, then you are doomed without foreknowledge and you should accept your fate and date him. 3rd, and this is key, spend the night NOT drinking WHILE he drinks and really grill him about his sexual history and his plans for the future. That'll fix him.
4th - you never know. Life is a learning experience... go to it.
posted by ewkpates at 10:57 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
4th - you never know. Life is a learning experience... go to it.
posted by ewkpates at 10:57 AM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
Is the source of this data credible? Is their any way to validate this? Does this person have their own agenda?
Mostly, I'm a fan of the "trust your friends over your 'nads" school of thought. If a good friend warned me off someone, I'd seriously consider that information.
posted by 26.2 at 11:58 AM on March 17, 2008
Mostly, I'm a fan of the "trust your friends over your 'nads" school of thought. If a good friend warned me off someone, I'd seriously consider that information.
posted by 26.2 at 11:58 AM on March 17, 2008
Anonymous: I'm in nearly the same boat as you are and I'm running into some similar issues. While I don't have the ex issues that you do, I do have people that I consider to be friends that are absolutely hating on the person I have expressed interest in. Having met this person through work - we work for the same company but in a different building in the same city - and I feel all of the sparks for her that you are describing. However, several other friends/coworkers that know this person better than I do initially fed me a bunch of information that seemed to be inconsistent with what I gathered on my own.
It's still (very) new/young, but I can say that I'm glad I didn't listen to my friends. This person isn't perfect, but we've had a great time together and that's all I'm looking for. Maybe your friends are hating on this person, and maybe your friends are just trying to protect you from someone they genuinely think is toxic. I say go out with this guy and see what all the hub-bub is about. If it works out...well, it isn't a bad thing to have people looking out for you. If he turns out to be everything they said he is, eh, you live and you learn. Keep your guard up and put yourself out there.
Best of luck!
posted by littlelebowskiurbanachiever at 1:27 PM on March 17, 2008
It's still (very) new/young, but I can say that I'm glad I didn't listen to my friends. This person isn't perfect, but we've had a great time together and that's all I'm looking for. Maybe your friends are hating on this person, and maybe your friends are just trying to protect you from someone they genuinely think is toxic. I say go out with this guy and see what all the hub-bub is about. If it works out...well, it isn't a bad thing to have people looking out for you. If he turns out to be everything they said he is, eh, you live and you learn. Keep your guard up and put yourself out there.
Best of luck!
posted by littlelebowskiurbanachiever at 1:27 PM on March 17, 2008
Of course go out with him. Form your own opinion. People sometimes get reputations they don't deserve. Be an adult, don't listen to gossip, and judge for yourself. You don't want to miss a good opportunity just because of hearsay.
I think that this is bad advice. Your friends have warned you, your gut instinct has warned you, you know what you need to do. "Being an adult" (whatever the fuck that means), means that you have learned from experience when you are stepping into a mine field. And yes, I gave myself the same advice as what I quoted above, and was throughly stomped. Don't talk yourself out of your own good sense.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 2:05 PM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think that this is bad advice. Your friends have warned you, your gut instinct has warned you, you know what you need to do. "Being an adult" (whatever the fuck that means), means that you have learned from experience when you are stepping into a mine field. And yes, I gave myself the same advice as what I quoted above, and was throughly stomped. Don't talk yourself out of your own good sense.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 2:05 PM on March 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think game warden up there makes a good point--what exactly do you mean by "dangerous to women"? This could mean "physically abusive" or it could mean "a Reginald St. Croix" seducer type.
I say, give yourself more credit than assuming that after one date you'll fall prey to whatever games this guy is up to. If you like him, give him a chance, tempered with caution. But don't avoid him simply based on some catty rumors.
posted by Brian James at 2:19 PM on March 17, 2008
I say, give yourself more credit than assuming that after one date you'll fall prey to whatever games this guy is up to. If you like him, give him a chance, tempered with caution. But don't avoid him simply based on some catty rumors.
posted by Brian James at 2:19 PM on March 17, 2008
I think that this is bad advice. Your friends have warned you, your gut instinct has warned you, you know what you need to do.
Well, her gut is saying "yay, I've got a date with him."
I think it's easy to personalize on questions like this -- as you and I and a number of people are 'fessing up to doing. You got burned. I dated a "bad boy" and ten years later we're still pals. But to you and the "stay away" folks, haven't you ever been the victim of undeserved and/or untrue gossip about your sex life?
posted by desuetude at 2:51 PM on March 17, 2008
Well, her gut is saying "yay, I've got a date with him."
I think it's easy to personalize on questions like this -- as you and I and a number of people are 'fessing up to doing. You got burned. I dated a "bad boy" and ten years later we're still pals. But to you and the "stay away" folks, haven't you ever been the victim of undeserved and/or untrue gossip about your sex life?
posted by desuetude at 2:51 PM on March 17, 2008
haven't you ever been the victim of undeserved and/or untrue gossip about your sex life?
But that's irrelevant—it's not like we're conspiring to cheat the guy out of his inheritance or something. He's not being victimized; his life will go on as usual. We're trying to answer this woman's question about whether it would be a good idea to go out with him, and some of us think the answer is no. It doesn't help to put yourself in the guy's place and feel aggrieved on his behalf; that's not what this is about. All we know about the guy is that people the poster knows say he's "a merciless player, a real tool, and dangerous to women" (and the poster says she "could sort of sense" that). Sure, it could be wrong, but it's not a good sign, and it's all we have to go on.
It would be a very different matter if she'd been seeing the guy for a while, had even moved in with him, and then she heard bad things about him; she'd have something else to go on (her own impressions), and she'd be breaking up something that already existed. This is not like that.
Once I went on a job interview at a place that looked really snazzy; later I was told that they treated their employees like shit and had a huge turnover rate. Sour grapes? Wild slander? Who knows? But I'm glad I didn't go to work there. You gotta play the odds.
posted by languagehat at 3:43 PM on March 17, 2008
But that's irrelevant—it's not like we're conspiring to cheat the guy out of his inheritance or something. He's not being victimized; his life will go on as usual. We're trying to answer this woman's question about whether it would be a good idea to go out with him, and some of us think the answer is no. It doesn't help to put yourself in the guy's place and feel aggrieved on his behalf; that's not what this is about. All we know about the guy is that people the poster knows say he's "a merciless player, a real tool, and dangerous to women" (and the poster says she "could sort of sense" that). Sure, it could be wrong, but it's not a good sign, and it's all we have to go on.
It would be a very different matter if she'd been seeing the guy for a while, had even moved in with him, and then she heard bad things about him; she'd have something else to go on (her own impressions), and she'd be breaking up something that already existed. This is not like that.
Once I went on a job interview at a place that looked really snazzy; later I was told that they treated their employees like shit and had a huge turnover rate. Sour grapes? Wild slander? Who knows? But I'm glad I didn't go to work there. You gotta play the odds.
posted by languagehat at 3:43 PM on March 17, 2008
But that's irrelevant—it's not like we're conspiring to cheat the guy out of his inheritance or something. He's not being victimized; his life will go on as usual.
I wasn't trying to make a "everyone who disagrees with me is wrong" point. Just that these types of relationship threads require a fair amount of speculation to answer, which we all do through our own filters and experience.
My point was that particularly when sex is concerned, even the most grown-up grown-ups participate in casual petty second- and third-hand gossip. Hey, maybe this guy is a tool. Sometimes a bad reputation is deserved. But I think of how many people I know (including myself) found themselves with a ZOMG! What a Slut! "reputation" over a misunderstood or completely imagined turn of events. "What people are saying" is often "random and complete horseshit."
posted by desuetude at 4:01 PM on March 17, 2008
I wasn't trying to make a "everyone who disagrees with me is wrong" point. Just that these types of relationship threads require a fair amount of speculation to answer, which we all do through our own filters and experience.
My point was that particularly when sex is concerned, even the most grown-up grown-ups participate in casual petty second- and third-hand gossip. Hey, maybe this guy is a tool. Sometimes a bad reputation is deserved. But I think of how many people I know (including myself) found themselves with a ZOMG! What a Slut! "reputation" over a misunderstood or completely imagined turn of events. "What people are saying" is often "random and complete horseshit."
posted by desuetude at 4:01 PM on March 17, 2008
Dump him and tell him a friend of a friend said someone told you he was a douchebag, and see how small you feel.
posted by apetpsychic at 10:56 PM on March 19, 2008
posted by apetpsychic at 10:56 PM on March 19, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jerseygirl at 7:20 AM on March 17, 2008