Not even a baby elephant?
November 3, 2007 11:16 PM Subscribe
So it's NaNoWriMo and I didn't do my research beforehand! Help child psychology buffs! What kind of memory / memory loss is typically exhibited in adults who lost a sibling at preschool age (aprox 4 years). More details below.
So the details run like this. Assume 4 year old twin girls from a *very* rural life with little home education and no schooling are abandoned, become separated, and are subsequently raised in different places with no contact or knowledge of each other.
What, if anything, might these adults be able to remember of their sibling? Is it possible that they might not remember them at all? Links to information on this type of situation greatly appreciated.
So the details run like this. Assume 4 year old twin girls from a *very* rural life with little home education and no schooling are abandoned, become separated, and are subsequently raised in different places with no contact or knowledge of each other.
What, if anything, might these adults be able to remember of their sibling? Is it possible that they might not remember them at all? Links to information on this type of situation greatly appreciated.
"I remember there were two of me, once, but now there's only one."
The case of Elise Schein and Paula Bernstein may be interesting for you to consider.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:14 AM on November 4, 2007
The case of Elise Schein and Paula Bernstein may be interesting for you to consider.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:14 AM on November 4, 2007
Or you might consider the most valuable writing advice I ever got (from Stephen King's spiffy book, On Writing) . . . and that is, wing it.
Don't let research get in the way of telling a story. Get the story down while its vibrant and quickening, and worry about details -- even details that *seem* to be large and important in the second draft.
posted by deCadmus at 9:09 AM on November 4, 2007
Don't let research get in the way of telling a story. Get the story down while its vibrant and quickening, and worry about details -- even details that *seem* to be large and important in the second draft.
posted by deCadmus at 9:09 AM on November 4, 2007
Best answer: Childhood memory is weird. I really don't remember anything that happened before I was in kindergarten, and I really have only one or two distinct memories from that time period. Other people I've talked to have vivid memories from when they were two or three -- but there's often some confusion about whether those are real memories from that period, or images from stories that others have told them about their lives.
The text I have on lifespan development (Santrock, J. (2006). Life-span development (10th ed.). New York: McGraw Hill.) says:
Some researchers such as Rovee-Collier have concluded that infants as young as 2 to 6 months can remember some experiences through 1 1/2 to 2 years of age (Rovee-Colier & Barr, 2004). However, critics such as Jean Mandler (2000), a leading expert on infant cognition, argue that the infants in Rovee-Collier's experiments are displaying only implicit memory. Implicit memory refers to memory without conscious recollection -- memories of skills and routine procedures that are performed automatically. In contrast, explicit memory refers to the conscious memory of facts and experiences.
When people think about memory, they are usually referring to explicit memory. Most researchers find that babies do not show explicit memory until the second half of the first year (Bauer & others, 2003; Mandler & McDonough, 1995). Then, explicit memory improves dramatically during the second year of life (Bauer, 2004; Carver & Bauer, 2001). In one longitudinal study, infants were assessed several times during their second year. Older infants showed more accurate memory and required fewer prompts to demonstrate their memory than younger infants. In sum, most of infants' conscious memories are fragile and short-lived, except for memory of perceptual-motor actions, which can be substantial (Mandler, 2000, 2003).
...Most adults can remember little if anything from the first three years of their life (Neisser, 2004). When adults do seem to be able to recall something from their infancy, it likely is something they have been told by relatives or something they saw in a photograph or a home movie. This phenomenon is called infantile or childhood amnesia. Even elementary school children do not remember much of their early child years. In one study, about three years after leaving preschool, children were much poorer at remembering their former classmates than their teacher was (Lie & Newcombe, 1999). In another study, 10-year-olds were shown pictures of their preschool classmates and they recognized only about 20 percent of them (Newcombe & Fox, 1994).
What is the cause of infantile amnesia? One reason for the difficulty older children and adults have in recalling events from their infant and early childhood years is the immaturity of the prefrontal lobes of the brain, which are though to play an importan role in memory for events (Boyer & Diamond, 1992). (p. 182)
A later chapter talks about cognitive development in 4-7 year olds, but isn't all that specific: "Young children can remember a great deal of information if they are given appropriate cues and prompts" and (in a sidetrack-y section about letting children testify in court) "whether a young child's eyewitness testimony is accurate or not may depend on a number of factors such as the type, number, and intensity of the suggestive techniques the child has experienced. It appears that the reliability of young children's reports has as much to do with the skills and motivation of the interviewer as with any natural limitation on young children's memory (Ceci, Fitneva, & Gilstrap, 2003)" (pp. 242-43).
So.... all that to say, I think deCadmus is right: Wing it. Since four years old seems right on the cusp of decent recall abilities, I'd say you could safely go any way your story took you and be well within the bounds of "normal" development (especially since what happened to your character isn't normal, which means all sorts of wonky things could be going on with her cognitive and emotional development).
posted by occhiblu at 9:55 AM on November 4, 2007
The text I have on lifespan development (Santrock, J. (2006). Life-span development (10th ed.). New York: McGraw Hill.) says:
Some researchers such as Rovee-Collier have concluded that infants as young as 2 to 6 months can remember some experiences through 1 1/2 to 2 years of age (Rovee-Colier & Barr, 2004). However, critics such as Jean Mandler (2000), a leading expert on infant cognition, argue that the infants in Rovee-Collier's experiments are displaying only implicit memory. Implicit memory refers to memory without conscious recollection -- memories of skills and routine procedures that are performed automatically. In contrast, explicit memory refers to the conscious memory of facts and experiences.
When people think about memory, they are usually referring to explicit memory. Most researchers find that babies do not show explicit memory until the second half of the first year (Bauer & others, 2003; Mandler & McDonough, 1995). Then, explicit memory improves dramatically during the second year of life (Bauer, 2004; Carver & Bauer, 2001). In one longitudinal study, infants were assessed several times during their second year. Older infants showed more accurate memory and required fewer prompts to demonstrate their memory than younger infants. In sum, most of infants' conscious memories are fragile and short-lived, except for memory of perceptual-motor actions, which can be substantial (Mandler, 2000, 2003).
...Most adults can remember little if anything from the first three years of their life (Neisser, 2004). When adults do seem to be able to recall something from their infancy, it likely is something they have been told by relatives or something they saw in a photograph or a home movie. This phenomenon is called infantile or childhood amnesia. Even elementary school children do not remember much of their early child years. In one study, about three years after leaving preschool, children were much poorer at remembering their former classmates than their teacher was (Lie & Newcombe, 1999). In another study, 10-year-olds were shown pictures of their preschool classmates and they recognized only about 20 percent of them (Newcombe & Fox, 1994).
What is the cause of infantile amnesia? One reason for the difficulty older children and adults have in recalling events from their infant and early childhood years is the immaturity of the prefrontal lobes of the brain, which are though to play an importan role in memory for events (Boyer & Diamond, 1992). (p. 182)
A later chapter talks about cognitive development in 4-7 year olds, but isn't all that specific: "Young children can remember a great deal of information if they are given appropriate cues and prompts" and (in a sidetrack-y section about letting children testify in court) "whether a young child's eyewitness testimony is accurate or not may depend on a number of factors such as the type, number, and intensity of the suggestive techniques the child has experienced. It appears that the reliability of young children's reports has as much to do with the skills and motivation of the interviewer as with any natural limitation on young children's memory (Ceci, Fitneva, & Gilstrap, 2003)" (pp. 242-43).
So.... all that to say, I think deCadmus is right: Wing it. Since four years old seems right on the cusp of decent recall abilities, I'd say you could safely go any way your story took you and be well within the bounds of "normal" development (especially since what happened to your character isn't normal, which means all sorts of wonky things could be going on with her cognitive and emotional development).
posted by occhiblu at 9:55 AM on November 4, 2007
I lost my little sister when I was three or so. She was born with alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency and died of liver failure at 7 months.
I don't remember what she looked like or acted like at all. Basically all I do remember is "Oh, I have a new sister! Great" and "Oh, I don't have a sister anymore? *shrug*" I may have had a more emotional response, but that's all I remember.
The emotional response of little kids to big things like this is all over the place until they become socialized. My parents tried to take care of Amy the best they could. They remember this time as the most heartbreaking period in their lives. I remember it as fun times spent with my grandparents in an office and on the farm.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:28 AM on November 4, 2007
I don't remember what she looked like or acted like at all. Basically all I do remember is "Oh, I have a new sister! Great" and "Oh, I don't have a sister anymore? *shrug*" I may have had a more emotional response, but that's all I remember.
The emotional response of little kids to big things like this is all over the place until they become socialized. My parents tried to take care of Amy the best they could. They remember this time as the most heartbreaking period in their lives. I remember it as fun times spent with my grandparents in an office and on the farm.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:28 AM on November 4, 2007
A good friend of mine from high school lost his slightly older brother at age four or five, from a freak accident involving a long fall.
One of the effects of this was very odd. Even though he claimed not to really be able to remember much of the incident, he was, when the death occurred, a normal kid who liked Disney movies. Afterward, he began watching them all the time, more than the normal "kid wants to watch the same movie daily" thing, like as in "kid wants to do literally nothing during waking hours except watch Disney movies." They were happy, and even when people died, everything ended up okay.
He became mildly -- maybe moderately -- obsessed with Disney, Disney trivia about the parks, the movies, wanted to work for Disney World when he got older, et cetera. It was almost a serious pain in the ass to be his friend in high school, and he was a big outcast (then again, so was I, so that worked out okay). I understand that now he's married and was disillusioned about working at WDW from actually, you know, working there. But I always thought it was interesting that he seemed to funnel his childhood grief and sorrow into being obsessed with the thing he was most interested in at the time when it occurred.
It's worth noting -- he didn't even realize that his Disney obsession stemmed from this until I mentioned it. As soon as I did, he had something of a breakdown. He seemed to think somehow that his interest was...not something he came by honestly, I guess, once I mentioned it to him. I was sorry I did.
posted by InnocentBystander at 3:52 PM on November 4, 2007
One of the effects of this was very odd. Even though he claimed not to really be able to remember much of the incident, he was, when the death occurred, a normal kid who liked Disney movies. Afterward, he began watching them all the time, more than the normal "kid wants to watch the same movie daily" thing, like as in "kid wants to do literally nothing during waking hours except watch Disney movies." They were happy, and even when people died, everything ended up okay.
He became mildly -- maybe moderately -- obsessed with Disney, Disney trivia about the parks, the movies, wanted to work for Disney World when he got older, et cetera. It was almost a serious pain in the ass to be his friend in high school, and he was a big outcast (then again, so was I, so that worked out okay). I understand that now he's married and was disillusioned about working at WDW from actually, you know, working there. But I always thought it was interesting that he seemed to funnel his childhood grief and sorrow into being obsessed with the thing he was most interested in at the time when it occurred.
It's worth noting -- he didn't even realize that his Disney obsession stemmed from this until I mentioned it. As soon as I did, he had something of a breakdown. He seemed to think somehow that his interest was...not something he came by honestly, I guess, once I mentioned it to him. I was sorry I did.
posted by InnocentBystander at 3:52 PM on November 4, 2007
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posted by Baud at 2:33 AM on November 4, 2007