Please Don't Make Fun of my Title
October 1, 2007 5:43 PM Subscribe
Throughout my life people have done their best to make me feel excluded. In any social situation I have always been the outlier, the butt of all jokes, the chaff. Is there something wrong with me? Should I just give up on ever having meaningful interactions with people?
I'm not just asking for pity. I've recieved plenty of that over the years and it hasn't done anything to help me get out of my perpetual social role. I need advice. I just feel like I'm suffocating under all the derision and mocking heaped upon me on a daily basis.
I'm not just asking for pity. I've recieved plenty of that over the years and it hasn't done anything to help me get out of my perpetual social role. I need advice. I just feel like I'm suffocating under all the derision and mocking heaped upon me on a daily basis.
I know how you feel. My method has always been to beat them to it with self-mockery. Then at least you get the satisfaction of not letting them get the upper hand.
posted by jonmc at 5:54 PM on October 1, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 5:54 PM on October 1, 2007 [3 favorites]
Is it overt mocking? I have a feeling people are going to recommend CBT as a way to change your interpretation of these events, whatever they are (hint: when posting as anonymous you don't have to be vague).
However, I have a feeling I know what you're talking about. Personally, I've more or less learned to live with fewer people in my life, but this becomes less and less tenable for a professional in a large company: many people interpret independence as an aggressive trait. Also, you don't say how old you are, which can make a difference.
posted by rhizome at 5:56 PM on October 1, 2007
However, I have a feeling I know what you're talking about. Personally, I've more or less learned to live with fewer people in my life, but this becomes less and less tenable for a professional in a large company: many people interpret independence as an aggressive trait. Also, you don't say how old you are, which can make a difference.
posted by rhizome at 5:56 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm willing to wager that what you're experiencing has more to do with your perception than with people's actual behavior towards you. Some people are more sensitive than others and can take gentle ribbing or teasing personally. I tend to make more jokes about people and pick on them when I am close with them - but people who know me generally understand that this is a sign of me being fond of them and not a personal attack.
If you have had the exact same group of friends your entire life, then I can see where you may have slipped into the role as someone that everyone plays for laughs. It happens and sometimes when you've known each other for so long it's hard to see (or treat) them differently than you always have. If this is the case, I recommend you try to meet some new people so that you can try to gain your confidence back.
Confidence is the key here. If you're someone who always hangs your head and expects to get picked on, it's far more likely to happen. Whether the person doing it is being malicious or playful makes a big difference, though, so like I already said you need to check your feelings and try to see past your own (possibly misplaced) hurt. While I am not a terribly shy person at all, when I do get the jitters (usually around people I find intimidating for some reason), I try to focus on my own actions and try not to worry about analyzing the other person's behavior for signs that they are judging/disliking/mocking me.
If you're feeling excluded, why not join in something where everyone is welcome and you can get out there and meet some new people who have no preconceptions of who you are? If this is something you can't picture yourself in a million years doing, you might want to read up on social anxiety and see if its possible that you have that going on. It's very common and there are a lot of people who manage to cope with it through therapy/peer support/meds, etc. Seeking counseling if you feel yourself very isolated and scared of interacting with new people might be an important first step.
posted by SassHat at 5:59 PM on October 1, 2007
If you have had the exact same group of friends your entire life, then I can see where you may have slipped into the role as someone that everyone plays for laughs. It happens and sometimes when you've known each other for so long it's hard to see (or treat) them differently than you always have. If this is the case, I recommend you try to meet some new people so that you can try to gain your confidence back.
Confidence is the key here. If you're someone who always hangs your head and expects to get picked on, it's far more likely to happen. Whether the person doing it is being malicious or playful makes a big difference, though, so like I already said you need to check your feelings and try to see past your own (possibly misplaced) hurt. While I am not a terribly shy person at all, when I do get the jitters (usually around people I find intimidating for some reason), I try to focus on my own actions and try not to worry about analyzing the other person's behavior for signs that they are judging/disliking/mocking me.
If you're feeling excluded, why not join in something where everyone is welcome and you can get out there and meet some new people who have no preconceptions of who you are? If this is something you can't picture yourself in a million years doing, you might want to read up on social anxiety and see if its possible that you have that going on. It's very common and there are a lot of people who manage to cope with it through therapy/peer support/meds, etc. Seeking counseling if you feel yourself very isolated and scared of interacting with new people might be an important first step.
posted by SassHat at 5:59 PM on October 1, 2007
Response by poster: Well, my initial reaction at your first line was "Sweet Jesus, victim complex much?" Without any context, examples, or attempt at self-analysis this post reads like a fourteen-year-old complaining that everybody hates them.
Look, if these people really are getting you down, why not ditch them? Find new friends who don't insult you. And if you're finding that in every friend group you get the same treatment, then you are subconsciously establishing some kind of pattern you need to break. You're either choosing people who abuse you, or there is an aspect of your behavior that is inspiring acrimony in others.
How do you deal with it when you're made the butt of jokes? Do you smile nervously and let them roll over you? Do you pout? Do you try to insult them back and engage in witty banter? See, my friends and I poke fun at each other all of the time. It's part of friendship, to be able to do that and insult each other back and forth. It's in good faith that the other person is not taking it seriously. If you do take attempts at friendly joshing seriously, and instead of throwing a witty insult back withdraw and sulk and basically ruin the evening, then yeah, you're not going to win people over.
I don't know if part of this, or any of this applies to you. But you've given very little information so I'm throwing this stuff out there.
posted by Anonymous at 6:02 PM on October 1, 2007
Look, if these people really are getting you down, why not ditch them? Find new friends who don't insult you. And if you're finding that in every friend group you get the same treatment, then you are subconsciously establishing some kind of pattern you need to break. You're either choosing people who abuse you, or there is an aspect of your behavior that is inspiring acrimony in others.
How do you deal with it when you're made the butt of jokes? Do you smile nervously and let them roll over you? Do you pout? Do you try to insult them back and engage in witty banter? See, my friends and I poke fun at each other all of the time. It's part of friendship, to be able to do that and insult each other back and forth. It's in good faith that the other person is not taking it seriously. If you do take attempts at friendly joshing seriously, and instead of throwing a witty insult back withdraw and sulk and basically ruin the evening, then yeah, you're not going to win people over.
I don't know if part of this, or any of this applies to you. But you've given very little information so I'm throwing this stuff out there.
posted by Anonymous at 6:02 PM on October 1, 2007
Find a way (e.g. by sending a note to one of the moderators) to tell us more about your self: specifically how old you are and what sort of place you're living.
I say this, because in most places, grownups don't act this way. My friends are in their 30s and 40s. We all have people we like and dislike, but nobody actively excludes and makes fun of anyone. That's schoolyard behavior.
Even if there's something horrible about you -- you smell bad or you're mean or whatever -- no one I know would waste their time making fun of you.
I'm guessing -- wild guesses, because you tell us so little -- that your situation is one of these three:
1) You're paranoid. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but do think it over. Maybe you're uncomfortable in your own skin and projecting in onto others. I'm a little Jewish guy, and I often feel like bartenders purposefully ignore me. I'll stand at the bar for ten minutes, waiting to get a drink, and it seems like they serve everyone but me. But I'm pretty sure it's my imagination. They're busy. There are many people they don't serve right away. I project my discomfort with myself onto them. If you think you might be like this, get help.
2) You're in a stupid, judgmental social group: you live in a Fraternity, Sorority or you're in some kind of snobbish sex-in-the-city environment in which people who wear the wrong shoes are shunned. If so, find a new environment. Most groups of mature people don't act this way.
3) You're trapped in high school or in a really small town. This is the toughest scenario. The one good thing about high school is that -- believe it or not -- it comes to an end. All the people I know (including me) who were friendless nerds as kids are doing fine as adults. It ends. It ends. It ends. You can make small towns end. You can move. Depending on your situation, that may be hard to do immediately. But you can work towards it. Move somewhere cosmopolitan.
Also, remember: "on the Internet, no on knows you're a dog."
posted by grumblebee at 6:04 PM on October 1, 2007 [5 favorites]
I say this, because in most places, grownups don't act this way. My friends are in their 30s and 40s. We all have people we like and dislike, but nobody actively excludes and makes fun of anyone. That's schoolyard behavior.
Even if there's something horrible about you -- you smell bad or you're mean or whatever -- no one I know would waste their time making fun of you.
I'm guessing -- wild guesses, because you tell us so little -- that your situation is one of these three:
1) You're paranoid. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but do think it over. Maybe you're uncomfortable in your own skin and projecting in onto others. I'm a little Jewish guy, and I often feel like bartenders purposefully ignore me. I'll stand at the bar for ten minutes, waiting to get a drink, and it seems like they serve everyone but me. But I'm pretty sure it's my imagination. They're busy. There are many people they don't serve right away. I project my discomfort with myself onto them. If you think you might be like this, get help.
2) You're in a stupid, judgmental social group: you live in a Fraternity, Sorority or you're in some kind of snobbish sex-in-the-city environment in which people who wear the wrong shoes are shunned. If so, find a new environment. Most groups of mature people don't act this way.
3) You're trapped in high school or in a really small town. This is the toughest scenario. The one good thing about high school is that -- believe it or not -- it comes to an end. All the people I know (including me) who were friendless nerds as kids are doing fine as adults. It ends. It ends. It ends. You can make small towns end. You can move. Depending on your situation, that may be hard to do immediately. But you can work towards it. Move somewhere cosmopolitan.
Also, remember: "on the Internet, no on knows you're a dog."
posted by grumblebee at 6:04 PM on October 1, 2007 [5 favorites]
I'd suggest, if you haven't already done this, that you consider seeing a therapist, or perhaps joining a therapy group. We really can't answer your question as we don't have enough information, and even if we had situations enumerated by you, there is within your question the distinct possibility that your perception of things doesn't describe reality.
I'm not suggesting that anything is your fault, or that you aren't experiencing a great deal of distress because of this, but if you want to get to the bottom of things (is it me or is them?), then you're going to have to explore the situation in more depth. A therapist might give you a place to really air out your concerns and check yourself, to see whether or not your story rings true after you've had to tell it to another person face to face. A therapy group would provide the added benefit of either recreating the kinds of situations you're talking about (thus allowing you to figure out what's really going on), or not recreating them at all, thus allowing you to figure out what's really going on. Either situation may or may not also give you strategies for dealing with this if it's happening or if you think it's happening, but I think that the main acute benefit of therapy would be to identify the problem.
Some people are averse to therapy, and perhaps with good reason, but there is a bit of desperation in your question that suggests that you really want something to change. While I cannot venture any advice about the situation you describe, because I really think that we don't have enough information to do so, I can suggest that you should ask yourself what you're willing to do to change the status quo. If the most you're willing to do is write to AskMe, not much is likely to change.
posted by OmieWise at 6:09 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm not suggesting that anything is your fault, or that you aren't experiencing a great deal of distress because of this, but if you want to get to the bottom of things (is it me or is them?), then you're going to have to explore the situation in more depth. A therapist might give you a place to really air out your concerns and check yourself, to see whether or not your story rings true after you've had to tell it to another person face to face. A therapy group would provide the added benefit of either recreating the kinds of situations you're talking about (thus allowing you to figure out what's really going on), or not recreating them at all, thus allowing you to figure out what's really going on. Either situation may or may not also give you strategies for dealing with this if it's happening or if you think it's happening, but I think that the main acute benefit of therapy would be to identify the problem.
Some people are averse to therapy, and perhaps with good reason, but there is a bit of desperation in your question that suggests that you really want something to change. While I cannot venture any advice about the situation you describe, because I really think that we don't have enough information to do so, I can suggest that you should ask yourself what you're willing to do to change the status quo. If the most you're willing to do is write to AskMe, not much is likely to change.
posted by OmieWise at 6:09 PM on October 1, 2007
it's hard to tell what it's really like in your situation, but I know from my own experience; people used to tease me when I was more shy. i recognize it now as an attempt to get me into the group by pointing out when i was being an idiot or being anti-social. it's a social thing.
if people didn't like you, they would avoid you and not talk to you. there is a difference between jokes and hostility. hostility is jokes behind your back. jokes to your face in a social setting are usually not meant to make you feel bad. they are supposed to knock you down a peg if you're being arrogant or up-tight or taking yourself too seriously. you respond by laughing at yourself, or even better, counter-jokes toward the joker. maybe you are imagining hostility where there is none. (nobody ever really explained this to me. it's the sort of thing that comes naturally or you kind of figure out. it took me a long time to figure out.)
when I was in undergrad there was a guy in my circle who we used to mercilessly tease. he was a friend of ours but he had a lot of really insensitive habits, like incessantly predicting failure on tests when he never got less than 90% (meanwhile much of the class struggles). I feel kind of bad for teasing him in retrospect, but I genuinely liked the guy, and honestly I think we were just trying to get him to relax and get off his high horse a bit. he never really did. I wonder how if affected him.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:11 PM on October 1, 2007
if people didn't like you, they would avoid you and not talk to you. there is a difference between jokes and hostility. hostility is jokes behind your back. jokes to your face in a social setting are usually not meant to make you feel bad. they are supposed to knock you down a peg if you're being arrogant or up-tight or taking yourself too seriously. you respond by laughing at yourself, or even better, counter-jokes toward the joker. maybe you are imagining hostility where there is none. (nobody ever really explained this to me. it's the sort of thing that comes naturally or you kind of figure out. it took me a long time to figure out.)
when I was in undergrad there was a guy in my circle who we used to mercilessly tease. he was a friend of ours but he had a lot of really insensitive habits, like incessantly predicting failure on tests when he never got less than 90% (meanwhile much of the class struggles). I feel kind of bad for teasing him in retrospect, but I genuinely liked the guy, and honestly I think we were just trying to get him to relax and get off his high horse a bit. he never really did. I wonder how if affected him.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:11 PM on October 1, 2007
(I should also add that we mercilessly teased each other whenever it was warranted. but one guy seemed to warrant it a lot more than everyone else.)
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:16 PM on October 1, 2007
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:16 PM on October 1, 2007
Ignore taff, she sounds like an example of the problem, not the solution.
My recommendation? Screw 'em. People want to be arseholes to you, tell them to get bent. Find stuff you enjoy doing that doesn't need you to put up with this crap and get on with life. That way the friends you make in the future have a better chance of actually being nice.
posted by krisjohn at 6:21 PM on October 1, 2007
My recommendation? Screw 'em. People want to be arseholes to you, tell them to get bent. Find stuff you enjoy doing that doesn't need you to put up with this crap and get on with life. That way the friends you make in the future have a better chance of actually being nice.
posted by krisjohn at 6:21 PM on October 1, 2007
Indeed, I'm going to recommend CBT as predicted. Cognitive behavioral therapy would probably help you figure out what to do, regardless of whether the problem is you, them, or some combination of the two. Maybe you need to find other people. Maybe you subconsciously send messages you'd rather not send. Maybe you're imagining it. Either way, CBT is tailor-made for this kind of concern. The situation is probably far too complicated for distant 'net-users to diagnose and treat.
Good luck--I felt like you did well into college, but both my situation and my personality have changed, and life is a lot better now. And yeah, I credit CBT with much of that.
posted by wintersweet at 6:23 PM on October 1, 2007
Good luck--I felt like you did well into college, but both my situation and my personality have changed, and life is a lot better now. And yeah, I credit CBT with much of that.
posted by wintersweet at 6:23 PM on October 1, 2007
I think CBT is the answer here. You emotionally feel like everyone is making fun of you. However, a realistic assesment of the situation would indicate that although some people are making fun of you, not all are. That's the first step.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:27 PM on October 1, 2007
posted by Ironmouth at 6:27 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm wondering what your body language and posture are like. I've observed, in adult social settings, that people who have poor posture or carry themselves in a meek manner tend to get targeted for a bit of teasing or more likely just completely ignored.
Is it possible your social and conversational skills are lacking a bit? I find myself wanting to snark on people who are whiney, talk about the same boring, self-absorbed topics or who only talk about themselves.
My advice to you, as a former very shy person who got picked on quite a bit in my younger days...
-Get some physical confidence. Learn to walk tall, sit straight up and move powerfully. Martial arts and/or yoga are good for this.
-Work on your social skills. Ask people good questions and pay attention to what they are saying. Be supportive and interested in others without being clingy.
-Develop your sense of humor. Don't take stuff so personally. Learn to out-snark people who give you shit.
In the event that all these suggestions fail in your particular situation, I found that moving away for awhile and reinventing myself helped a lot.
posted by pluckysparrow at 6:29 PM on October 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Is it possible your social and conversational skills are lacking a bit? I find myself wanting to snark on people who are whiney, talk about the same boring, self-absorbed topics or who only talk about themselves.
My advice to you, as a former very shy person who got picked on quite a bit in my younger days...
-Get some physical confidence. Learn to walk tall, sit straight up and move powerfully. Martial arts and/or yoga are good for this.
-Work on your social skills. Ask people good questions and pay attention to what they are saying. Be supportive and interested in others without being clingy.
-Develop your sense of humor. Don't take stuff so personally. Learn to out-snark people who give you shit.
In the event that all these suggestions fail in your particular situation, I found that moving away for awhile and reinventing myself helped a lot.
posted by pluckysparrow at 6:29 PM on October 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Without knowing more, I see one of two things happening (as mentioned above).
1. People ridicule you because you react in an amusing way, and give them positive reinforcement.
2. People don't really ridicule you all that much, you're just imagining it. You've got an overinflated sense of your own importance and imagine that every joke somehow has you as the butt.
In either case, the solution is the same. Fuck 'em.
posted by adamrice at 6:30 PM on October 1, 2007
1. People ridicule you because you react in an amusing way, and give them positive reinforcement.
2. People don't really ridicule you all that much, you're just imagining it. You've got an overinflated sense of your own importance and imagine that every joke somehow has you as the butt.
In either case, the solution is the same. Fuck 'em.
posted by adamrice at 6:30 PM on October 1, 2007
Grumblebee's answer is excellent.
Find a way (e.g. by sending a note to one of the moderators) to tell us more about your self: specifically how old you are and what sort of place you're living.
I agree, please clarify. If you can, in addition to explaining what kind of setting you live in, also write out a specific example you can remember where this happened.
I say this, because in most places, grownups don't act this way. My friends are in their 30s and 40s. We all have people we like and dislike, but nobody actively excludes and makes fun of anyone. That's schoolyard behavior.
Grumblebee is right on. I can't imagine anyone in my social circle making anyone the butt of jokes or treating anyone as "chaff."
posted by jayder at 6:32 PM on October 1, 2007
Find a way (e.g. by sending a note to one of the moderators) to tell us more about your self: specifically how old you are and what sort of place you're living.
I agree, please clarify. If you can, in addition to explaining what kind of setting you live in, also write out a specific example you can remember where this happened.
I say this, because in most places, grownups don't act this way. My friends are in their 30s and 40s. We all have people we like and dislike, but nobody actively excludes and makes fun of anyone. That's schoolyard behavior.
Grumblebee is right on. I can't imagine anyone in my social circle making anyone the butt of jokes or treating anyone as "chaff."
posted by jayder at 6:32 PM on October 1, 2007
This is a tough question to answer without knowing your situation in more detail. People can be the one who is 'picked on' for a variety of reasons.
There's one guy in one of my social circles who is the butt of all jokes. He's singled out and mocked mercilessly -- but we do it because he has some habits that grind our gears. He's relentlessly egotistical. If we're playing boardgames, he was either fated to win because of his innate skill or he lost because his opponents got lucky -- not because he was outplayed. He assumes that everyone in the group will show up for his 'events' without question and will deride any other choices. If the group decides to go for food someplace he'd rather not, he'll come along and grouse about it the whole time "What was wrong with the French place? I didn't want a chicken sandwich again. It's the only thing on the menu. Ah, I shoulda ordere the fries."
And here's the thing: he doesn't appear to understand that his behaviour is insensitive and egregious, even when we ride him for it. (So why's he in the group? Because he's interesting, generous and social even if he is an insensitive boor. Nobody's all bad.)
So we ride him, without mercy (with the exception of cracks about his vitiligo, which even we understand is off limits). He displays ego and puffery? We tell him that we let him win so he wouldn't whine. He orders a pot of tea and two glasses of ice at a restaurant because he won't settle for fountain iced tea? We tell the server to charge him the $10 pain-in-the-ass surcharge. He shows up for Boggle on Sunday and complains the whole night that nobody was interested in poker a couple of days earlier? We tell him it's because nobody likes him. But here's the thing: we're not being malicious. We like the guy. But, Jesus, can he be hard to take.
The point is: you may have habits that trigger others' reflex to mock. You may not even know you have them. So some self-examination might be in order.
Or it might not. You might just be seen as "the perfect target". Maybe you're just unlucky. You need to decide whether or not you want to associate with a group who will ride you hard.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 6:42 PM on October 1, 2007
There's one guy in one of my social circles who is the butt of all jokes. He's singled out and mocked mercilessly -- but we do it because he has some habits that grind our gears. He's relentlessly egotistical. If we're playing boardgames, he was either fated to win because of his innate skill or he lost because his opponents got lucky -- not because he was outplayed. He assumes that everyone in the group will show up for his 'events' without question and will deride any other choices. If the group decides to go for food someplace he'd rather not, he'll come along and grouse about it the whole time "What was wrong with the French place? I didn't want a chicken sandwich again. It's the only thing on the menu. Ah, I shoulda ordere the fries."
And here's the thing: he doesn't appear to understand that his behaviour is insensitive and egregious, even when we ride him for it. (So why's he in the group? Because he's interesting, generous and social even if he is an insensitive boor. Nobody's all bad.)
So we ride him, without mercy (with the exception of cracks about his vitiligo, which even we understand is off limits). He displays ego and puffery? We tell him that we let him win so he wouldn't whine. He orders a pot of tea and two glasses of ice at a restaurant because he won't settle for fountain iced tea? We tell the server to charge him the $10 pain-in-the-ass surcharge. He shows up for Boggle on Sunday and complains the whole night that nobody was interested in poker a couple of days earlier? We tell him it's because nobody likes him. But here's the thing: we're not being malicious. We like the guy. But, Jesus, can he be hard to take.
The point is: you may have habits that trigger others' reflex to mock. You may not even know you have them. So some self-examination might be in order.
Or it might not. You might just be seen as "the perfect target". Maybe you're just unlucky. You need to decide whether or not you want to associate with a group who will ride you hard.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 6:42 PM on October 1, 2007
I think age, gender and social circumstances might be relevant here.
I'm a guy, and I have a few different clusters of guy friends that I hang out with (work, previous job friends, school, etc.,) and in every group when it's just the boys we all rip on each other mercilessly. It's always been that way. But I'm also an adult, and the kind of good-natured abuse we hurl at each other would not have gone over so well in high school.
There's been times in my life when I've known people who just couldn't take a joke. People who couldn't get into the ribbing rhythm. They tend to draw more flack, either because of cruelty (it's possible your circle of aquaintences does, in fact, have some real jerks in it,) or the honest desire to try to include the person in the social dynamic.
If you feel like the people who are saying the things that bother you don't care about you at all, find new people. And no people is better than those kind of people. If they're just playing around but you're having problems getting into it or they're hitting some hot buttons, and if you're honest with yourself you'll know if this is the case, tell one of them. There's generally an alpha snarker in most groups. Just pull him aside and say, "Dude, lay off the [hot button] comments, OK?" Merciless ripping still has boundries and maybe they don't know where you want yours to be. But don't try to take everything off the table either. For example, I had bad acne into my early 30's and was very self-conscious about it. My friends knew this so they never gave me shit about it because there's Things That Really Bother You and Everything Else. Don't work yourself up about Everything Else.
And not everyone can come up with a witty or cutting retort on the fly. Don't feel bad if you can't. jonmc is right that a little self-deprication can go a long way.
posted by Cyrano at 6:43 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm a guy, and I have a few different clusters of guy friends that I hang out with (work, previous job friends, school, etc.,) and in every group when it's just the boys we all rip on each other mercilessly. It's always been that way. But I'm also an adult, and the kind of good-natured abuse we hurl at each other would not have gone over so well in high school.
There's been times in my life when I've known people who just couldn't take a joke. People who couldn't get into the ribbing rhythm. They tend to draw more flack, either because of cruelty (it's possible your circle of aquaintences does, in fact, have some real jerks in it,) or the honest desire to try to include the person in the social dynamic.
If you feel like the people who are saying the things that bother you don't care about you at all, find new people. And no people is better than those kind of people. If they're just playing around but you're having problems getting into it or they're hitting some hot buttons, and if you're honest with yourself you'll know if this is the case, tell one of them. There's generally an alpha snarker in most groups. Just pull him aside and say, "Dude, lay off the [hot button] comments, OK?" Merciless ripping still has boundries and maybe they don't know where you want yours to be. But don't try to take everything off the table either. For example, I had bad acne into my early 30's and was very self-conscious about it. My friends knew this so they never gave me shit about it because there's Things That Really Bother You and Everything Else. Don't work yourself up about Everything Else.
And not everyone can come up with a witty or cutting retort on the fly. Don't feel bad if you can't. jonmc is right that a little self-deprication can go a long way.
posted by Cyrano at 6:43 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm taking some training in a specialized form of prayer counseling, and what you describe is a pattern we often see in folks who come for help.
You had an experience at some point in your life in which you felt rejected, and probably you came to expect rejection to come. What happens then is you act in such a way as to a) attract rejection or b) see rejection when it isn't there.
FWIW I've "been there, done that" and gotten healed from it.
posted by konolia at 6:44 PM on October 1, 2007 [3 favorites]
You had an experience at some point in your life in which you felt rejected, and probably you came to expect rejection to come. What happens then is you act in such a way as to a) attract rejection or b) see rejection when it isn't there.
FWIW I've "been there, done that" and gotten healed from it.
posted by konolia at 6:44 PM on October 1, 2007 [3 favorites]
/on preview/ FWIW I've "been there, done that" and gotten healed from it.
Most adults share this. There's hope.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:06 PM on October 1, 2007
Well . If you're being mercilessly ribbed and you don’t want any pity for it, then good for you. Sounds like you're fed up but strong enough to take it and just want to figure out why this is happening.
Quite often we teach people how to treat us. The people that tease you may be a lost cause, and may not be likely to change and be civil. It would be more effective for you to either modify your reaction, or think differently about what’s said, or both. Instead of being hurt by those comments, roll with them. Mentally thank those people for giving you the opportunity to develop a thick skin. At the same time, minimise your contact with these toxic folks if you can.
You don’t give much to go on, but when you are in a situation where people do not know you, are you treated with an appropriate level of respect? When does the disrespecting begin? Try establishing a baseline level where people just treat you well. If you're being laughed at by strangers, seek the advice of trusted friends who will give you honest feedback on how you are coming across. Maybe get them to videotape you. Look for quirks that make you stand out and work on those.
posted by panini at 7:07 PM on October 1, 2007
Quite often we teach people how to treat us. The people that tease you may be a lost cause, and may not be likely to change and be civil. It would be more effective for you to either modify your reaction, or think differently about what’s said, or both. Instead of being hurt by those comments, roll with them. Mentally thank those people for giving you the opportunity to develop a thick skin. At the same time, minimise your contact with these toxic folks if you can.
You don’t give much to go on, but when you are in a situation where people do not know you, are you treated with an appropriate level of respect? When does the disrespecting begin? Try establishing a baseline level where people just treat you well. If you're being laughed at by strangers, seek the advice of trusted friends who will give you honest feedback on how you are coming across. Maybe get them to videotape you. Look for quirks that make you stand out and work on those.
posted by panini at 7:07 PM on October 1, 2007
Find a way (e.g. by sending a note to one of the moderators) to tell us more about yourself: specifically how old you are and what sort of place you're living.
Yes really, this is key.
If you are in high school, and it sure sounds like you are, well Christ, high school can be sheer hell and what you need to know is that everything changes when you start living your own life in the big big world. Everything. Seriously. You just have to suck it up until you get a little older.
But if you are already an adult, and you have no friends, and people treat you badly in social situations, there may be something off-putting about your behavior. I know a few people who are so relentlessly negative or self absorbed or just plain bizarro that they are a real drag to be around. Then again, as grumblebee says, I've never seen these person openly mocked or mistreated, because adults don't generally behave that way.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:20 PM on October 1, 2007
Yes really, this is key.
If you are in high school, and it sure sounds like you are, well Christ, high school can be sheer hell and what you need to know is that everything changes when you start living your own life in the big big world. Everything. Seriously. You just have to suck it up until you get a little older.
But if you are already an adult, and you have no friends, and people treat you badly in social situations, there may be something off-putting about your behavior. I know a few people who are so relentlessly negative or self absorbed or just plain bizarro that they are a real drag to be around. Then again, as grumblebee says, I've never seen these person openly mocked or mistreated, because adults don't generally behave that way.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:20 PM on October 1, 2007
on your next vacation (do you have a job?!?! sheesh, make with the info! are you male or female?), go somewhere and BE SOMEONE ELSE. I moved to SE Asia for 8 years. I learned that I wasn't who I thought I was. I reinvented myself. You could, too. But you've got to see the possibility.
George Costanza changing himself...
The Pickup Artist on VH1...I mean, c'mon.
Look, I useta specialize in helping noobs to my city change; it was a personal crusade. Ask for help and I'll see what I can do.
posted by tristanshout at 7:39 PM on October 1, 2007
George Costanza changing himself...
The Pickup Artist on VH1...I mean, c'mon.
Look, I useta specialize in helping noobs to my city change; it was a personal crusade. Ask for help and I'll see what I can do.
posted by tristanshout at 7:39 PM on October 1, 2007
Anonymous, I have been there -- exactly, precisely where you are right now, as far as I can tell from your short description, and I know how utterly wretched it can be. I have also overcome this status of being the ultimate outsider, and now lead a happy life with friends, a wife, and meaningful, positive relationships with people.
I won't speculate on why you are experiencing such a profound alientation from other people, for I simply don't know you well enough. However, I will briefly tell you a few practical items that helped me, in the hope that you'll find them useful.
First, realize that you play some role in your social isolation. Perhaps you're very smart, and take every opportunity to remind people of this fact. Perhaps you don't recognize social clues about when you are talking too much, or too loudly. Perhaps you are utterly and painfully shy. It could be a thousand things. And this is not to say that cruel mockery is the proper response. But you are helping to trigger it somehow, and it is certain that you have no idea what it is that is causing others to react to you in the way they do. Figuring out what it is will take some time, and will be the key to changing your bevavior. This American Life had a very interesting story (re-ran just last week) that covered what it was like to be manifestly unpopular, both from the point of view of the semi-outcast and from the point of view of those that were cruel to him. You might find it interesting: http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=314
Second, you may need to totally change yoru social group. If you have been known as one type of person for long enough within an enclosed community, you will not be allowed to change. Not rapidly, anyway. Stay in your current situation long enough to figure out as best you can what your errors have been, and how to avoid repeating them. Once you know *how* to effectively start over, move. And apply those lessons.
Third, at least in my case, drugs helped. Heavy doses of weed for a couple years radically changed my comfort level around others. It helped give me the confidence not to worry about what others thinked of me, which in turned helped me be attuned more to what they were thinking and feeling. It gave me the ability to be less self centered. As a downside, weed became a crutch, then a habit, then an addiction which took me a good 18 months to kick. Looking back, it did me more good than harm. But I wish I had come up with a way of changing that did not involve a debilitating chemical addiction.
And finally, the key to the whole thing for me was to stop thinking about myself and how bad I felt, and to concentrate on making other people feel better about themselves. Stop spending every social encounter worrying about what people think of you, and how terrible they are making you feel. Instead, pay careful attention to what they have to say, and what hidden feelings that they might be expressing. Does someone drop several small mentions of the promotion they got at work? Draw that out. Praise them. Build them up. You'll notice that it requires a great deal of your attention to pick up these clues to making others feel happy, supported and loved. So much attention that you won't have much space to worry about what others may be thinking of you. Be careful not to overdo it -- too much false and constant praise marks one a bootlicker. You'll make mistakes along the way, but keep at it. You'll notice that people like to be around those that make them feel good. These sort of people are popular, and loved. So that is your job: to figure out how to become one of these confident, giving people.
I wish you good luck. My email address is in my profile should you want to discuss this further.
posted by centerweight at 7:45 PM on October 1, 2007 [3 favorites]
I won't speculate on why you are experiencing such a profound alientation from other people, for I simply don't know you well enough. However, I will briefly tell you a few practical items that helped me, in the hope that you'll find them useful.
First, realize that you play some role in your social isolation. Perhaps you're very smart, and take every opportunity to remind people of this fact. Perhaps you don't recognize social clues about when you are talking too much, or too loudly. Perhaps you are utterly and painfully shy. It could be a thousand things. And this is not to say that cruel mockery is the proper response. But you are helping to trigger it somehow, and it is certain that you have no idea what it is that is causing others to react to you in the way they do. Figuring out what it is will take some time, and will be the key to changing your bevavior. This American Life had a very interesting story (re-ran just last week) that covered what it was like to be manifestly unpopular, both from the point of view of the semi-outcast and from the point of view of those that were cruel to him. You might find it interesting: http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=314
Second, you may need to totally change yoru social group. If you have been known as one type of person for long enough within an enclosed community, you will not be allowed to change. Not rapidly, anyway. Stay in your current situation long enough to figure out as best you can what your errors have been, and how to avoid repeating them. Once you know *how* to effectively start over, move. And apply those lessons.
Third, at least in my case, drugs helped. Heavy doses of weed for a couple years radically changed my comfort level around others. It helped give me the confidence not to worry about what others thinked of me, which in turned helped me be attuned more to what they were thinking and feeling. It gave me the ability to be less self centered. As a downside, weed became a crutch, then a habit, then an addiction which took me a good 18 months to kick. Looking back, it did me more good than harm. But I wish I had come up with a way of changing that did not involve a debilitating chemical addiction.
And finally, the key to the whole thing for me was to stop thinking about myself and how bad I felt, and to concentrate on making other people feel better about themselves. Stop spending every social encounter worrying about what people think of you, and how terrible they are making you feel. Instead, pay careful attention to what they have to say, and what hidden feelings that they might be expressing. Does someone drop several small mentions of the promotion they got at work? Draw that out. Praise them. Build them up. You'll notice that it requires a great deal of your attention to pick up these clues to making others feel happy, supported and loved. So much attention that you won't have much space to worry about what others may be thinking of you. Be careful not to overdo it -- too much false and constant praise marks one a bootlicker. You'll make mistakes along the way, but keep at it. You'll notice that people like to be around those that make them feel good. These sort of people are popular, and loved. So that is your job: to figure out how to become one of these confident, giving people.
I wish you good luck. My email address is in my profile should you want to discuss this further.
posted by centerweight at 7:45 PM on October 1, 2007 [3 favorites]
To answer your questions: probably not; and good lord, no.
As for advice, I'll just second everyone here who suggestsmeeting new people ditching the people who are making you miserable, if that's at all an option. Find new friends, or new books, or old books, or whatever.
If you're constrained to a social setting where that simply isn't possible, then get thee to a counselor/mentor/therapist. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with you--it just sounds as though you need to hear from somebody who knows you and can provide an unbiased perspective.
I suspect you'd be pleasantly surprised by the truth. Most painfully shy people are.
Please disregard the so-called tough-love contingent here.
posted by YamwotIam at 8:49 PM on October 1, 2007
As for advice, I'll just second everyone here who suggests
If you're constrained to a social setting where that simply isn't possible, then get thee to a counselor/mentor/therapist. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with you--it just sounds as though you need to hear from somebody who knows you and can provide an unbiased perspective.
I suspect you'd be pleasantly surprised by the truth. Most painfully shy people are.
Please disregard the so-called tough-love contingent here.
posted by YamwotIam at 8:49 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm going with Nerdfilter on this.
Well, actually Jeff Bigler's Tact theory. Boils down to this:
People have a tact filter - which works on the way out - when you speak, you're supposed to filter what you say (tactfully). It works going 'out'
Nerds, have it working on the incoming direction, due to being constantly picked on. They hear most conversation as people 'picking' on them. And likely don't filter their outgoing direction.
It's probably worth examining/reading about, given the responses here.
posted by filmgeek at 9:10 PM on October 1, 2007
Well, actually Jeff Bigler's Tact theory. Boils down to this:
People have a tact filter - which works on the way out - when you speak, you're supposed to filter what you say (tactfully). It works going 'out'
Nerds, have it working on the incoming direction, due to being constantly picked on. They hear most conversation as people 'picking' on them. And likely don't filter their outgoing direction.
It's probably worth examining/reading about, given the responses here.
posted by filmgeek at 9:10 PM on October 1, 2007
The type of person that ten pounds of inedita describes mocking --- who is sort of bullheaded, eccentric, and hard to take, and is consequently mocked for it --- is different from the meek, wallflower type that is the butt of jokes.
The first type is the George Costanza type, who, despite his peculiarities, is not really an outcast. He's an eccentric putz who verbally jousts with people and sticks up for himself (usually, I have noticed, this type is a man). I remember a friend of mine had a frat brother whose name in the frat house was Pigpen for his unhygienic habits, but he could dole out the abuse as much as he could take it.
The second type, the meek wallflower, is the "Carrie" type, who is mercilessly mocked and doesn't fight back (until her supernatural killing powers kick in).
The difference here is how you handle the abuse. The people who can deal it back --- even if their efforts are a bit lame --- invariably win respect. What was that reality TV show in which there was a team of studs, and a team of geeks, each competing for the affections of a beautiful woman? I remember, on that show, one of the geeky guys (the one from Boston, who ended up being the highest-finishing geeky guy, but was not chosen by the woman), had a really feisty personality, and he would engage in pretty nasty verbal sparring with the studs. That kind of sparring really wins people's respect ... even if they don't like you!
posted by jayder at 9:15 PM on October 1, 2007
The first type is the George Costanza type, who, despite his peculiarities, is not really an outcast. He's an eccentric putz who verbally jousts with people and sticks up for himself (usually, I have noticed, this type is a man). I remember a friend of mine had a frat brother whose name in the frat house was Pigpen for his unhygienic habits, but he could dole out the abuse as much as he could take it.
The second type, the meek wallflower, is the "Carrie" type, who is mercilessly mocked and doesn't fight back (until her supernatural killing powers kick in).
The difference here is how you handle the abuse. The people who can deal it back --- even if their efforts are a bit lame --- invariably win respect. What was that reality TV show in which there was a team of studs, and a team of geeks, each competing for the affections of a beautiful woman? I remember, on that show, one of the geeky guys (the one from Boston, who ended up being the highest-finishing geeky guy, but was not chosen by the woman), had a really feisty personality, and he would engage in pretty nasty verbal sparring with the studs. That kind of sparring really wins people's respect ... even if they don't like you!
posted by jayder at 9:15 PM on October 1, 2007
I have this same problem.
People may just like you and feel relaxed around you, and feel comfortable teasing you. Just because people tease you does not mean they are in some way superior. They may be stressing a bit as well in social situations, and one way to divert attention from themselves is focus it on you.
You could try teasing them back. Some people will not like this one bit. These people are bullies. Some won't mind. These people are friends.
I don't really agree with jonmc's solution. (My method has always been to beat them to it with self-mockery. Then at least you get the satisfaction of not letting them get the upper hand.) While this is okay to a certain extent, it is also a little negative, and people rarely are inclined to form friendships with people who are negative (although everyone seems to like jonmc, so perhaps my hypothesis is flawed). You may also become the weakling of the litter that becomes pecked to death. Instead, take the ribbing, but then pass it on, get the attention away from you. Tease someone else (preferably someone who can take it). It's a lot of work, but it beats being the butt of every joke.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:15 PM on October 1, 2007
People may just like you and feel relaxed around you, and feel comfortable teasing you. Just because people tease you does not mean they are in some way superior. They may be stressing a bit as well in social situations, and one way to divert attention from themselves is focus it on you.
You could try teasing them back. Some people will not like this one bit. These people are bullies. Some won't mind. These people are friends.
I don't really agree with jonmc's solution. (My method has always been to beat them to it with self-mockery. Then at least you get the satisfaction of not letting them get the upper hand.) While this is okay to a certain extent, it is also a little negative, and people rarely are inclined to form friendships with people who are negative (although everyone seems to like jonmc, so perhaps my hypothesis is flawed). You may also become the weakling of the litter that becomes pecked to death. Instead, take the ribbing, but then pass it on, get the attention away from you. Tease someone else (preferably someone who can take it). It's a lot of work, but it beats being the butt of every joke.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:15 PM on October 1, 2007
I'm always a bit weird about stuff like this, since the way I dealt with this sort of the thing was completely accidental and pretty dangerous, but it seemed to work out well. Understand your exclusion and control it. Move outside of it by moving outside of yourself. I did something really stupid, ie taking a dissociative drug by myself, and fucked myself up emotionally and mentally for about half a year, and then I had to learn how to rewire my relationships. When I rebuilt them, I built them better. I don't recommend this, and it's not what I was trying to accomplish, it's the scraping-the-bottom method, but the general principle I learned was: understand yourself, understand the way groups work with and without you, and understand your humanity is impermanent and always changing.
Two other things, and I'll be blunt since I don't know you: a) maybe you're a dick. b) maybe the people who you chose to hang out with are dicks.
posted by Football Bat at 9:21 PM on October 1, 2007
Two other things, and I'll be blunt since I don't know you: a) maybe you're a dick. b) maybe the people who you chose to hang out with are dicks.
posted by Football Bat at 9:21 PM on October 1, 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers
It may not be them, just your perception.
Look for a counselor or therapist, its something that can be dealt with.
reg
posted by legotech at 10:50 PM on October 1, 2007
It may not be them, just your perception.
Look for a counselor or therapist, its something that can be dealt with.
reg
posted by legotech at 10:50 PM on October 1, 2007
The notion that the mockery is people teaching you to change your annoying social habits has some merit but is mostly self validating bullshit. When they respond to your social mis-steps (and you are likely making quite a few) by making fun of you (especially if it is relentless) this is a mild form of punishment. People don't punish in order to teach, a desire for revenge underlies punishment. We may learn from pain but the social dynamics inherent in punishment make it a poor method for teaching. Your behavior elicits annoyance or anger and you present yourself as a ripe target for retaliation. Another motive is the widespread attraction to personal exposure, especially when it's involuntary. People like to gawk. When ridicule gets really severe and the object is showing that they are affected it does become a bit of a spectacle. Even people who are compassionate will stay and watch.
There's this element to group interaction where it is more about performance than sharing something intrinsic to the individual. That's what a lot of this is about and I don't understand it very well. It's not for me. I see the women in my family participate in these sorts of conversations and it's almost like they're playing music. Not the musicality of the words but in the way the rhetorical pieces and bodily expressions accompany and respond to each other. I know my own behavior conforms to it as well but consciously participating is a bit foreign. Among animals a lot of play behavior has a dominance subtext. That's going on here as well. I suspect that some of the people who engage in a lot of mutual teasing with their friends, notice weak points about them that they plan to bring out later. That's not natural for me and I'm generally caught off guard when it begins. I'm also not one to start ripping on myself when I'm being teased. I think it's self betrayal for the sake of kowtowing to a group. If it's genuinely funny or I have something funny to say I will join in, but not to 'manage the scene'. When I see others do that, it turns my stomach.
Your situation is familiar to me. I've dealt with some pretty severe social rejection over a range of years. I haven't gone from the bottom to the top by any means, but I have made some changes that I'm satisfied with. That said, I'm still not socially skilled and I doubt I ever will be. While I get along well with just about anybody one on one, from felons to professionals, when it comes to social groups I'm still awkward, even with friends who have a similar background. And that's OK. Anyway, I don't have the sense of exclusion that I once did and I was able to remove myself from the position of being routinely picked on when I was of an age where that still happened.
Here's what I did. I changed my scene and avoided being in the same space with people who didn't respect me. I knew I was playing a role in a social hierarchy and some members had a vested interest in keeping me at the bottom. When someone was hostile I didn't try to change their mind or pretend that the situation was other than what it was. A lot of my problems were associated with denial. I got more honest with myself and others. Some intense feelings came up and then they passed. When I became more willing to face my own feelings I accepted myself more. Feel the feelings you avoid, not just the sadness from the shitty treatment you receive. Feeling only the sadness is part of your problem. Because you're willing to feel that sadness you participate in patterns that lead to those feelings.
When I noticed that I spoke in a monotone, I began to play with tonality more. If this is you as well, don't get ridiculous, but start to get more curious about how you can use your voice to express yourself. Look at your body language as well. Being critical doesn't help me, it's just another opportunity to rip myself apart. But when I start to notice ways that I can stand or move that convey what I'm talking about it makes me a more interesting speaker and heightens my own level of engagement. Increasing your degree of engagement, contact, participation, whatever you want to call it, is key. It makes you both more interesting and less of a target. I also became more willing to be silent in someone's company. It showed me my tendency to pander towards others and look to them for acceptance. It has social benefits as well but if you think this might help then I'll let you discover them for yourself. There's a lot of truth to the notion that we teach others how to treat us. What incentives and consequences do you offer? Your friendship won't be valued if you make it available no matter how you're treated.
Along these same lines, getting involved in physical activities that put me in touch with some of my fear was another step forward. Experience some adrenalin. Martial arts might be one route but there are others. If you're willing to feel uncomfortable and are even a little relaxed about it you won't come across as such a victim. People will still tease but it won't turn into long term habitual abuse. I may have come across a little misanthropic earlier, but there are also good reasons why exposure draws people's attention. Many situations that expose you lead to growth. Drugs became a big part of my life for quite a while. In some ways they helped and I suspect I would have had even bigger issues if I hadn't had that escape and that avenue towards some social connection. But it's seeking out what I've been calling contact that led to real changes and drugs tend to be more about its avoidance.
Email is in profile and you are welcome to contact me.
On preview: Football Bat - Your account sounds really interesting. As advice it would be horrible for anybody but I bet it makes a great story, especially to those who know the other people involved.
posted by BigSky at 11:16 PM on October 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
There's this element to group interaction where it is more about performance than sharing something intrinsic to the individual. That's what a lot of this is about and I don't understand it very well. It's not for me. I see the women in my family participate in these sorts of conversations and it's almost like they're playing music. Not the musicality of the words but in the way the rhetorical pieces and bodily expressions accompany and respond to each other. I know my own behavior conforms to it as well but consciously participating is a bit foreign. Among animals a lot of play behavior has a dominance subtext. That's going on here as well. I suspect that some of the people who engage in a lot of mutual teasing with their friends, notice weak points about them that they plan to bring out later. That's not natural for me and I'm generally caught off guard when it begins. I'm also not one to start ripping on myself when I'm being teased. I think it's self betrayal for the sake of kowtowing to a group. If it's genuinely funny or I have something funny to say I will join in, but not to 'manage the scene'. When I see others do that, it turns my stomach.
Your situation is familiar to me. I've dealt with some pretty severe social rejection over a range of years. I haven't gone from the bottom to the top by any means, but I have made some changes that I'm satisfied with. That said, I'm still not socially skilled and I doubt I ever will be. While I get along well with just about anybody one on one, from felons to professionals, when it comes to social groups I'm still awkward, even with friends who have a similar background. And that's OK. Anyway, I don't have the sense of exclusion that I once did and I was able to remove myself from the position of being routinely picked on when I was of an age where that still happened.
Here's what I did. I changed my scene and avoided being in the same space with people who didn't respect me. I knew I was playing a role in a social hierarchy and some members had a vested interest in keeping me at the bottom. When someone was hostile I didn't try to change their mind or pretend that the situation was other than what it was. A lot of my problems were associated with denial. I got more honest with myself and others. Some intense feelings came up and then they passed. When I became more willing to face my own feelings I accepted myself more. Feel the feelings you avoid, not just the sadness from the shitty treatment you receive. Feeling only the sadness is part of your problem. Because you're willing to feel that sadness you participate in patterns that lead to those feelings.
When I noticed that I spoke in a monotone, I began to play with tonality more. If this is you as well, don't get ridiculous, but start to get more curious about how you can use your voice to express yourself. Look at your body language as well. Being critical doesn't help me, it's just another opportunity to rip myself apart. But when I start to notice ways that I can stand or move that convey what I'm talking about it makes me a more interesting speaker and heightens my own level of engagement. Increasing your degree of engagement, contact, participation, whatever you want to call it, is key. It makes you both more interesting and less of a target. I also became more willing to be silent in someone's company. It showed me my tendency to pander towards others and look to them for acceptance. It has social benefits as well but if you think this might help then I'll let you discover them for yourself. There's a lot of truth to the notion that we teach others how to treat us. What incentives and consequences do you offer? Your friendship won't be valued if you make it available no matter how you're treated.
Along these same lines, getting involved in physical activities that put me in touch with some of my fear was another step forward. Experience some adrenalin. Martial arts might be one route but there are others. If you're willing to feel uncomfortable and are even a little relaxed about it you won't come across as such a victim. People will still tease but it won't turn into long term habitual abuse. I may have come across a little misanthropic earlier, but there are also good reasons why exposure draws people's attention. Many situations that expose you lead to growth. Drugs became a big part of my life for quite a while. In some ways they helped and I suspect I would have had even bigger issues if I hadn't had that escape and that avenue towards some social connection. But it's seeking out what I've been calling contact that led to real changes and drugs tend to be more about its avoidance.
Email is in profile and you are welcome to contact me.
On preview: Football Bat - Your account sounds really interesting. As advice it would be horrible for anybody but I bet it makes a great story, especially to those who know the other people involved.
posted by BigSky at 11:16 PM on October 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
Throughout my life people have done their best to make me feel excluded.
In any social situation I have always been the outlier, the butt of all jokes, the chaff.
nthing that it's tough to say given the information you've supplied. But, taken at face value...
WARNING: More tough love below
IMO, from the way you've framed your problem, it's either you, or you have a very small social circle.
Why would people "do their best" to make you feel excluded consistently?
Why would any random people you find in a social situation suddenly decide to make you the butt of your jokes?
Only a few reasons come to mind:
-You're imagining/exaggerating people's behavior toward you.
-Some behavior of yours is so annoying that you really do elicit the reactions you describe.
-This happens much less frequently than you claim, but you conflate these instances into occurring "all the time."
-This really does happen all the time, for no good reason, but you have a small social circle, and you're confusing these mean people around you with "everyone."
All of these options point back to you. nthing therapy.
And really, I don't say this to be mean, but the way you frame your question makes you sound like a self-pitying drama queen ("the outlier, the butt of all jokes, the chaff"). Not somebody people typically see as the life of the party.
posted by Rykey at 3:47 AM on October 2, 2007
In any social situation I have always been the outlier, the butt of all jokes, the chaff.
nthing that it's tough to say given the information you've supplied. But, taken at face value...
WARNING: More tough love below
IMO, from the way you've framed your problem, it's either you, or you have a very small social circle.
Why would people "do their best" to make you feel excluded consistently?
Why would any random people you find in a social situation suddenly decide to make you the butt of your jokes?
Only a few reasons come to mind:
-You're imagining/exaggerating people's behavior toward you.
-Some behavior of yours is so annoying that you really do elicit the reactions you describe.
-This happens much less frequently than you claim, but you conflate these instances into occurring "all the time."
-This really does happen all the time, for no good reason, but you have a small social circle, and you're confusing these mean people around you with "everyone."
All of these options point back to you. nthing therapy.
And really, I don't say this to be mean, but the way you frame your question makes you sound like a self-pitying drama queen ("the outlier, the butt of all jokes, the chaff"). Not somebody people typically see as the life of the party.
posted by Rykey at 3:47 AM on October 2, 2007
Is there something wrong with me? Should I just give up on ever having meaningful interactions with people?
No and no. You're just wound up too tight maybe. Loosen up a little. Have a bit of fun. Laugh at yourself. Don't take the mockery too seriously. Find other introverted people who you can hang out with.
I'm saying this to you as someone who's been in your position, and still am, to a certain extent.
posted by hadjiboy at 5:36 AM on October 2, 2007
No and no. You're just wound up too tight maybe. Loosen up a little. Have a bit of fun. Laugh at yourself. Don't take the mockery too seriously. Find other introverted people who you can hang out with.
I'm saying this to you as someone who's been in your position, and still am, to a certain extent.
posted by hadjiboy at 5:36 AM on October 2, 2007
I was once you. I am not anymore!
Here's what I discovered after a lot of self-reflection. Somehow, perhaps through that "self-esteem building" crap that was so popular when I was growing up, I got it into my head that other people are responsible for my feelings. If my feelings were hurt, then it was because other people were being mean, and it was their fault for being mean, and they should stop. And also, for some reason, I was convinced that every time my feelings got hurt it was a big deal which required immediate reparation. I took everything seriously and personally without stopping to consider why I took things that way.
Well, that's not the way things work. And it took me a long time to realize it, and the process was kind of awkward, but I'm much better off for it. The truth is this: most of the time there is no malice behind people's actions, and you can stop feeling hurt and left out all the time without any change in behaviour on their part. You just have to not take things so seriously, to realize that getting your feelings hurt is not the end of the world, and that most importantly, in the vast majority of situations you can choose whether or not to let yourself feel hurt. Additionally, you need to realize what impact your actions and responses are having on other people. I found that I was often very blunt and unfriendly, yet somehow expected tact and kid-glove treatment from others. When I softened, so did they.
I know that this is kind of hard to grasp in the abstract, so here's a little example using a clip from the US version of The Office.
Watched it? Okay. Dwight, in case you're not familiar, is the geeky dude who gets his stuff put in the vending machine. He's pretty clearly the butt of the joke, right? Let's examine why this is:
The first thing he did wrong was fail to keep the situation in perspective. It was a joke: if his stuff got in there somehow then clearly it could get back out, and probably the worst consequence would be the fifteen minutes or so it would take to get his stuff back. But Dwight takes the situation too seriously and overreacts by getting mad right away (which is exactly the reaction Jim and Pam are looking for). And... it's kind of funny, so they egg him on. Pam buys the pencil cup (again, perspective: it's not something even remotely important, and she clearly does not intend to keep it) and Dwight strikes out again when he orders her to return it. Nobody likes being ordered around, especially by a peer without any authority to do so; and especially in a social situation. To someone who only cares about righting the wrong against them, that might seem like a logical tactic; but to someone who is considering how their actions are affecting others, it is clear that an order is completely ineffective. Finally, he's taken the situation as a 'them against me' kind of personal affront ("I know you did this, you're friends with the vending machine guy") when it was just a joke.
This whole thing would have been a non-issue if, instead, he laughed and said something like "dude, how the hell did you get my stuff in there?" But really, if he was a little more laid back about things in general, the prank wouldn't have been worth it in the first place.
The other reason I chose that example, though, is that if you watch the show, you see that the other characters have a kind of grudging affection for Dwight. He's not a bad guy; he's just not very self-aware and takes things way too seriously. They just want him to lighten up a bit.
And so that is my advice to you: lighten up a bit. It will not be easy. It will require you to stop yourself every time you think your feelings are hurt and ask, "is this really something I should be getting upset over? Is there any other way I can interpret this?" It will require you to force yourself to answer "no" and "yes" respectively even when you don't want to. You will have to smile or at least smirk when you don't feel like it. You will have to pay a lot more attention to the dynamics of your social group, Discovery Channel-like if necessary, and concentrate on what you contribute, rather than what they're giving (or not giving) you.
It took me years to figure out all of this and to implement it, but it's very much worth the effort. Please don't listen to the handful of commenters who tell you to stay in your corner licking your wounds; that may be the easy way out but it's not the solution you asked for.
Email's in profile if you want me to ramble even further...
posted by AV at 6:17 AM on October 2, 2007 [9 favorites]
Here's what I discovered after a lot of self-reflection. Somehow, perhaps through that "self-esteem building" crap that was so popular when I was growing up, I got it into my head that other people are responsible for my feelings. If my feelings were hurt, then it was because other people were being mean, and it was their fault for being mean, and they should stop. And also, for some reason, I was convinced that every time my feelings got hurt it was a big deal which required immediate reparation. I took everything seriously and personally without stopping to consider why I took things that way.
Well, that's not the way things work. And it took me a long time to realize it, and the process was kind of awkward, but I'm much better off for it. The truth is this: most of the time there is no malice behind people's actions, and you can stop feeling hurt and left out all the time without any change in behaviour on their part. You just have to not take things so seriously, to realize that getting your feelings hurt is not the end of the world, and that most importantly, in the vast majority of situations you can choose whether or not to let yourself feel hurt. Additionally, you need to realize what impact your actions and responses are having on other people. I found that I was often very blunt and unfriendly, yet somehow expected tact and kid-glove treatment from others. When I softened, so did they.
I know that this is kind of hard to grasp in the abstract, so here's a little example using a clip from the US version of The Office.
Watched it? Okay. Dwight, in case you're not familiar, is the geeky dude who gets his stuff put in the vending machine. He's pretty clearly the butt of the joke, right? Let's examine why this is:
The first thing he did wrong was fail to keep the situation in perspective. It was a joke: if his stuff got in there somehow then clearly it could get back out, and probably the worst consequence would be the fifteen minutes or so it would take to get his stuff back. But Dwight takes the situation too seriously and overreacts by getting mad right away (which is exactly the reaction Jim and Pam are looking for). And... it's kind of funny, so they egg him on. Pam buys the pencil cup (again, perspective: it's not something even remotely important, and she clearly does not intend to keep it) and Dwight strikes out again when he orders her to return it. Nobody likes being ordered around, especially by a peer without any authority to do so; and especially in a social situation. To someone who only cares about righting the wrong against them, that might seem like a logical tactic; but to someone who is considering how their actions are affecting others, it is clear that an order is completely ineffective. Finally, he's taken the situation as a 'them against me' kind of personal affront ("I know you did this, you're friends with the vending machine guy") when it was just a joke.
This whole thing would have been a non-issue if, instead, he laughed and said something like "dude, how the hell did you get my stuff in there?" But really, if he was a little more laid back about things in general, the prank wouldn't have been worth it in the first place.
The other reason I chose that example, though, is that if you watch the show, you see that the other characters have a kind of grudging affection for Dwight. He's not a bad guy; he's just not very self-aware and takes things way too seriously. They just want him to lighten up a bit.
And so that is my advice to you: lighten up a bit. It will not be easy. It will require you to stop yourself every time you think your feelings are hurt and ask, "is this really something I should be getting upset over? Is there any other way I can interpret this?" It will require you to force yourself to answer "no" and "yes" respectively even when you don't want to. You will have to smile or at least smirk when you don't feel like it. You will have to pay a lot more attention to the dynamics of your social group, Discovery Channel-like if necessary, and concentrate on what you contribute, rather than what they're giving (or not giving) you.
It took me years to figure out all of this and to implement it, but it's very much worth the effort. Please don't listen to the handful of commenters who tell you to stay in your corner licking your wounds; that may be the easy way out but it's not the solution you asked for.
Email's in profile if you want me to ramble even further...
posted by AV at 6:17 AM on October 2, 2007 [9 favorites]
Wow, I think AV gets it totally right.
Unless you're in High School, everyone that you're around chooses to be around you. They like you, and like getting a reaction from you. If they were trully cruel, you wouldn't be able to face them again. Using The Office again to exhibit true cruelty, see here, where the wholly disliked pregnant woman finally gets her comeuppance. The nicer people have tried to avoid her the entire time (unlike Dwight's British analogue, who they quite enjoy being around) . The crueller ones driver her away easily.
If you're the pregnant woman, than some serious introspection is needed to understand what drives people to do that.
posted by FuManchu at 9:07 AM on October 2, 2007
Unless you're in High School, everyone that you're around chooses to be around you. They like you, and like getting a reaction from you. If they were trully cruel, you wouldn't be able to face them again. Using The Office again to exhibit true cruelty, see here, where the wholly disliked pregnant woman finally gets her comeuppance. The nicer people have tried to avoid her the entire time (unlike Dwight's British analogue, who they quite enjoy being around) . The crueller ones driver her away easily.
If you're the pregnant woman, than some serious introspection is needed to understand what drives people to do that.
posted by FuManchu at 9:07 AM on October 2, 2007
When trying to come up with possible scenarios where people are openly cruel, we've touched on high school and the work place. It IS true that sometimes adults can be cruel in the workplace. This is because -- as with high school -- they're forced to be there (not really, since you can quit a job and drop out of high school, but it feels that way, so it might was well be true).
Some people are blessed with fantastic work environments where everyone is cool and gets along. But I don't think that's the norm. I also don't think the norm is a bunch of angry, mean, childish people. The norm is probably somewhere in between.
But work -- in general -- is not a great place to make friends. It's too stressful and hierarchical. So if you mean that everyone at work makes fun of you, then try to make some friends outside of work -- someplace where people CHOOSE to attend. Volunteer somewhere; do community theatre; etc.
posted by grumblebee at 11:01 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
Some people are blessed with fantastic work environments where everyone is cool and gets along. But I don't think that's the norm. I also don't think the norm is a bunch of angry, mean, childish people. The norm is probably somewhere in between.
But work -- in general -- is not a great place to make friends. It's too stressful and hierarchical. So if you mean that everyone at work makes fun of you, then try to make some friends outside of work -- someplace where people CHOOSE to attend. Volunteer somewhere; do community theatre; etc.
posted by grumblebee at 11:01 AM on October 2, 2007 [1 favorite]
I've got a bit of a quibble with AV. Saying, "most of the time there is no malice behind people's actions", an example in support is offered where, Dwight gets "mad right away (which is exactly the reaction Jim and Pam are looking for)". This is malicious. They're pulling the prank on the person who deals with it the worst because after all, "if he was a little more laid back about things in general, the prank wouldn't have been worth it in the first place". Our disagreement probably centers around what we mean by malice. I think many times people take action for no better reason than because they can. And that's one of the worst reasons in the world to do anything. But that said, the advice is golden.
Someone commented on here a while ago that kids who are both demanding and brittle are bully magnets. The same holds true later on. Demanding accommodations from others annoys people and lacking resilience makes them an appealing outlet for someone else's anger. I don't think this is the whole story but it's definitely a fast track to becoming a receptacle for the group's abuse.
posted by BigSky at 11:04 AM on October 2, 2007
Someone commented on here a while ago that kids who are both demanding and brittle are bully magnets. The same holds true later on. Demanding accommodations from others annoys people and lacking resilience makes them an appealing outlet for someone else's anger. I don't think this is the whole story but it's definitely a fast track to becoming a receptacle for the group's abuse.
posted by BigSky at 11:04 AM on October 2, 2007
Some of the answers given here have been a bit harsh, which really surprises me considering you've come here in a vulnerable state, looking for help. I hope you realize that the mean things people say are not a reflection on you, they are very much a reflection on the people who are saying them.
I want to encourage you as well to see a therapist. A therapist will accept you unconditionally, and will take your problems seriously. Whether they are coming from within or without, they are real. They will be much less likely to give you advice before they fully understand the problem.
There are also many wonderful books written by therapists. Look in the psychology or self help sections of your book store. You may find something that resonates with what you are going through.
We don't have to accept things that aren't working in our lives. Don't give up. Good luck!
posted by cookie googleman at 1:54 PM on October 2, 2007
I want to encourage you as well to see a therapist. A therapist will accept you unconditionally, and will take your problems seriously. Whether they are coming from within or without, they are real. They will be much less likely to give you advice before they fully understand the problem.
There are also many wonderful books written by therapists. Look in the psychology or self help sections of your book store. You may find something that resonates with what you are going through.
We don't have to accept things that aren't working in our lives. Don't give up. Good luck!
posted by cookie googleman at 1:54 PM on October 2, 2007
Social skills can be learned. There's numerous ways to go about doing this. One is to enter a highly social role or job, like a bartender. You will learn very quickly. There's also books written to help people with Asperger's on how to socialize. You may or may not have Apserger's, but what's great about literature for Asperger people is that it's very explicit about social ideas that are otherwise unspoken competencies for neurotypicals. In particular I recommend:
The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships: Decoding Social Mysteries Through the Unique Perspectives of Autism
One chapter in particular emphasized the importance of getting good at small talk, which can give you the social filler you need to deflect unwarranted teasting.
posted by philosophistry at 2:17 PM on October 2, 2007
The Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships: Decoding Social Mysteries Through the Unique Perspectives of Autism
One chapter in particular emphasized the importance of getting good at small talk, which can give you the social filler you need to deflect unwarranted teasting.
posted by philosophistry at 2:17 PM on October 2, 2007
Speaking as somone who has often felt the same way (not that I am the butt of jokes but that everyone hates me) I sympathize with you. I have discovered that it's all up to me in the end, and that I can do two things: (1) change my perception of things, and/or (2) change my behavior.
In talking to friends about this, I realize that a lot of people feel this kind of thing (or variations of it, like "I'm shy when I talk to someone I am attracted to"); this helps me realize that I'm not a freak and that I CAN deal with this. This is where changing perception come in: most of the people around me are suffering something like what I am and are maybe acting they way they are to keep the attention off them, ridiculing others lest they be ridiculed. Also, I find that because I fear something I start to see it everywhere; hang out with friends in places/situations where this kind of feeling comes over you, and ask you friend later if they perceived that people were making fun of you.
Changing your behavior could mean pre-empting their actions say, by making fun of yourself in a light-hearted way. I use this a lot and it makes others relax. Example, if you feel like everyone is making fun of you for being a control freak, say something like "Let me just be a control freak for a second and straighten these napkins on the buffet...hahaha!" By a certain age, you know what your shortcomings are and hopefully you have a sense of humor about them. You are what you are, and you probably have people in your life who love/like you for you, because of or in spite of your shortcomings. Just relax about yourself, laugh at yourself and try to see your situation in a way that works for you instead of against you.
posted by kenzi23 at 7:23 PM on October 2, 2007
In talking to friends about this, I realize that a lot of people feel this kind of thing (or variations of it, like "I'm shy when I talk to someone I am attracted to"); this helps me realize that I'm not a freak and that I CAN deal with this. This is where changing perception come in: most of the people around me are suffering something like what I am and are maybe acting they way they are to keep the attention off them, ridiculing others lest they be ridiculed. Also, I find that because I fear something I start to see it everywhere; hang out with friends in places/situations where this kind of feeling comes over you, and ask you friend later if they perceived that people were making fun of you.
Changing your behavior could mean pre-empting their actions say, by making fun of yourself in a light-hearted way. I use this a lot and it makes others relax. Example, if you feel like everyone is making fun of you for being a control freak, say something like "Let me just be a control freak for a second and straighten these napkins on the buffet...hahaha!" By a certain age, you know what your shortcomings are and hopefully you have a sense of humor about them. You are what you are, and you probably have people in your life who love/like you for you, because of or in spite of your shortcomings. Just relax about yourself, laugh at yourself and try to see your situation in a way that works for you instead of against you.
posted by kenzi23 at 7:23 PM on October 2, 2007
One more suggestion that others have mentioned: therapy. I found cognitive behavior therapy EXTREMELY helpful as it helped me to look at things differently and thereby change my reactions to things. I realized that I was stuck in a certain way of seeing situations and myself, and through therapy realized that I have a choice of how I see things and how I react to things that happen to me.
posted by kenzi23 at 7:26 PM on October 2, 2007
posted by kenzi23 at 7:26 PM on October 2, 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers
It may not be them, just your perception.
I have often wondered if that might be part of the problem...
posted by KokuRyu at 9:09 PM on October 2, 2007
It may not be them, just your perception.
I have often wondered if that might be part of the problem...
posted by KokuRyu at 9:09 PM on October 2, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
obviously i don't know you... but the few people i've noticed this happen to have some common characteristics.
they tend to be a little um, obtuse. people who stick their feet in the mud almost belligerently... seemingly begging to be teased. because the teasers get a wonderful reaction.
i've often wished that these people would just go along with the inane idiocy of the group for a few moments... just to get rid of the tension. it's not just you that feels awful when this happens. there will be others that squirm too, but don't let you see it.
you may be the type to see a lot of group dynamics as silly and superficial... if that is the case... you're further setting yourself up for teasing.
relax and act like an idiot and enjoy people for peoples sake. it's tough when people tease you, but if you laugh in a low key way... others will eventually get the teasing.
sorry this is happening to you, and that you hate it. i don't mean to be the person blaming the victim... but that's just my observations of when this happens to people. and they're often introverts too.
someone else with more time and a less foggy brain may also have some tips. and if i've got it all wrong... i'm also sorry. take care possum, no matter why it's happening, if you hate it, it's not fun.
posted by taff at 5:54 PM on October 1, 2007