What does she need in order to feel secure in a relationship with me?
July 11, 2007 1:38 AM Subscribe
I'm 23, she's 25. We saw each other casually while I was in school. She wanted something more serious, but I wasn't ready. Now I am ready, but she says I'm too late– she can't risk getting hurt again. She still cares for me, and I for her. Help me understand and address her needs.
We've known each other for two years. I met her during a summer break home from college, and we became close. I knew from previous experience that I didn't want a cross-country relationship, and we talked about that, and agreed to keep it light.
When I was home for breaks, we saw each other several times a week and kept in close contact. While I was at school, though, I shied away from seriousness and commitment. I didn't understand until recently that she felt very hurt through all this (I failed to notice this in part because she made it seem like things were fine, and in part because I'm your typical unobservant male).
I returned home from graduation ready to ask her to be my girlfriend, but before I could ask her she informed me that she had just recently started a relationship with someone she's known for a long time. She confided that it was hard for her to let me go, and that she still has feelings for me.
Most recently, she has decided that she wants to be single. Her reason is that she feels insecure in a relationship. She's afraid of being hurt someday, and so the solution is to never be together in the first place. My position is that yes, I may get hurt in the future, but I'll accept that possibility in order to have a special experience here and now. I think the fact that my more casual attitude hurt her already makes her even more afraid that I might hurt her in the future.
What does she need in order to feel secure, and is it something I can offer?
We've known each other for two years. I met her during a summer break home from college, and we became close. I knew from previous experience that I didn't want a cross-country relationship, and we talked about that, and agreed to keep it light.
When I was home for breaks, we saw each other several times a week and kept in close contact. While I was at school, though, I shied away from seriousness and commitment. I didn't understand until recently that she felt very hurt through all this (I failed to notice this in part because she made it seem like things were fine, and in part because I'm your typical unobservant male).
I returned home from graduation ready to ask her to be my girlfriend, but before I could ask her she informed me that she had just recently started a relationship with someone she's known for a long time. She confided that it was hard for her to let me go, and that she still has feelings for me.
Most recently, she has decided that she wants to be single. Her reason is that she feels insecure in a relationship. She's afraid of being hurt someday, and so the solution is to never be together in the first place. My position is that yes, I may get hurt in the future, but I'll accept that possibility in order to have a special experience here and now. I think the fact that my more casual attitude hurt her already makes her even more afraid that I might hurt her in the future.
What does she need in order to feel secure, and is it something I can offer?
She may need to feel that your desire/need for her is durable enough not to be a passing fancy or something to give up if something else becomes more important or attractive.
What signals are you sending her about the potential seriousness of a relationship between you two? If you use phrases like 'here and now' with her, she may not feel very confident about you. You have a right to not be tied down, don't try to give that up if it's what you want. But it will definitely make you incompatible for some relationships.
posted by bluejayk at 2:55 AM on July 11, 2007
What signals are you sending her about the potential seriousness of a relationship between you two? If you use phrases like 'here and now' with her, she may not feel very confident about you. You have a right to not be tied down, don't try to give that up if it's what you want. But it will definitely make you incompatible for some relationships.
posted by bluejayk at 2:55 AM on July 11, 2007
Response by poster: uandt– Yes, I apologized. I don't like that she pretended things were fine for quite some time, but I haven't mentioned that to her because I think it would come across as if I were blaming her (I'm not).
bluejayk– You bring up a point I hadn't thought of before. I think of 'here and now' as a good thing: I know right now that I want to be with her, I don't need to go explore any other options before starting an exclusive relationship with her. And I'm not making some promise to be with her in three years, I'm ready to start right now. (Like if she was a car dealer, I just walked in with a check for the sticker price). She's had more life experience than me and is more mature than me in several ways, so there's probably a lot that I just don't get. For instance, I know that she thinks about the future in a much more concrete way than I am able to right now.
posted by colgate at 3:24 AM on July 11, 2007
bluejayk– You bring up a point I hadn't thought of before. I think of 'here and now' as a good thing: I know right now that I want to be with her, I don't need to go explore any other options before starting an exclusive relationship with her. And I'm not making some promise to be with her in three years, I'm ready to start right now. (Like if she was a car dealer, I just walked in with a check for the sticker price). She's had more life experience than me and is more mature than me in several ways, so there's probably a lot that I just don't get. For instance, I know that she thinks about the future in a much more concrete way than I am able to right now.
posted by colgate at 3:24 AM on July 11, 2007
I think it depends on why she feels insecure in a relationship. If you're the main cause of her not wanting a relationship ever again, then there's not going to be a lot you can do to convince her.
She might just need time to get over you, or she might have decided that the pain of loneliness is going to be less than the pain of breaking up. Or she might just be using that as a cover to avoid getting back together with the guy who broke her heart in the first place. (I'm not trying to be harsh, but to give you her point of view, or at least how I'd feel in that situation.)
All you can do is sit down and have a heart to heart with her, and tell her how you feel. Just don't expect her to get back with you just because you want her to.
You might well have missed the boat on this one.
posted by Solomon at 3:28 AM on July 11, 2007
She might just need time to get over you, or she might have decided that the pain of loneliness is going to be less than the pain of breaking up. Or she might just be using that as a cover to avoid getting back together with the guy who broke her heart in the first place. (I'm not trying to be harsh, but to give you her point of view, or at least how I'd feel in that situation.)
All you can do is sit down and have a heart to heart with her, and tell her how you feel. Just don't expect her to get back with you just because you want her to.
You might well have missed the boat on this one.
posted by Solomon at 3:28 AM on July 11, 2007
Did you guys ever get physical, be it just a kiss?
What does she need in order to feel secure, and is it something I can offer?
This is a question you should ask her. Seriously. But I'd start with an apology, flowers and a smile.
But keep in mind that she has security issues (She's afraid of being hurt someday) which that might put a lot of stress on the relationship. It doesn't make her bad or not worth dating but her expectations are unrealistic.
But really, ask her what she needs.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:32 AM on July 11, 2007
What does she need in order to feel secure, and is it something I can offer?
This is a question you should ask her. Seriously. But I'd start with an apology, flowers and a smile.
But keep in mind that she has security issues (She's afraid of being hurt someday) which that might put a lot of stress on the relationship. It doesn't make her bad or not worth dating but her expectations are unrealistic.
But really, ask her what she needs.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:32 AM on July 11, 2007
Response by poster: Did you guys ever get physical, be it just a kiss?
Yes; we have amazing physical chemistry. I couldn't dream of anything better, and she claims the same. Our most recent interactions would have gone beyond embrace if she didn't draw a line out of consideration for the other guy.
But really, ask her what she needs.
She needs someone to be there for her, but she isn't confident that I know what I'm talking about when I say that I will be. She said my being a little older would give her more confidence, but come on, that would take years!
posted by colgate at 4:08 AM on July 11, 2007
Yes; we have amazing physical chemistry. I couldn't dream of anything better, and she claims the same. Our most recent interactions would have gone beyond embrace if she didn't draw a line out of consideration for the other guy.
But really, ask her what she needs.
She needs someone to be there for her, but she isn't confident that I know what I'm talking about when I say that I will be. She said my being a little older would give her more confidence, but come on, that would take years!
posted by colgate at 4:08 AM on July 11, 2007
I apologized. I don't like that she pretended things were fine for quite some time, but I haven't mentioned that to her
Then you need a better apology because I get the impression that you haven't given her a proper explanation to why you ignored and shied away from her at school while being so nice to her when you were at home.
Mature and considerate people don't behave that way and being treated like that would make anyone feel insecure.
When she says she'd like you to be older she probably means that she wish you were better at communicating your feelings towards her. Even if you are good now you weren't in the past and now she can't trust you.
What she needs from you is you behaving as a dependable person for a while.
posted by uandt at 4:39 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Then you need a better apology because I get the impression that you haven't given her a proper explanation to why you ignored and shied away from her at school while being so nice to her when you were at home.
Mature and considerate people don't behave that way and being treated like that would make anyone feel insecure.
When she says she'd like you to be older she probably means that she wish you were better at communicating your feelings towards her. Even if you are good now you weren't in the past and now she can't trust you.
What she needs from you is you behaving as a dependable person for a while.
posted by uandt at 4:39 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
One time an ex wanted to get back together with me and I didn't. He jumped to the conclusion that it was because I was self-protecting--that I didn't want to get hurt again. That wasn't completely off-base--of course I had no reason to believe he wouldn't repeat the behavior that caused the breakup in the first place. People tend to repeat themselves, even when they mean not to. But it's not as simple as just not being willing to take the risk of getting hurt for the sake of love or whatever. The real reason (which lies behind that superficial reason) was that the things that had happened during the breakup made me not want to be with him anymore. I couldn't trust him, and I didn't feel as comfortable with him.
The chemistry may well still be there, but she may also be feeling that something's just not right. Maybe what right now feels like she'd rather be single than with anyone is really just that she'd rather be single than with you or this other guy. Sometimes it really is important just to be unattached for a while--it was to you.
posted by lampoil at 4:40 AM on July 11, 2007 [2 favorites]
The chemistry may well still be there, but she may also be feeling that something's just not right. Maybe what right now feels like she'd rather be single than with anyone is really just that she'd rather be single than with you or this other guy. Sometimes it really is important just to be unattached for a while--it was to you.
posted by lampoil at 4:40 AM on July 11, 2007 [2 favorites]
Give her time. In the meantime, be you.
posted by milarepa at 5:01 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by milarepa at 5:01 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
but she isn't confident that I know what I'm talking about when I say that I will be.
Ask her for some time. Then just casaully date, no sex, no specific timeframe for her, meaning don't tell her
"lets try this for x amount of time" i.e. don't pressure her. Then just be you and date her. Either she'll come around or she won't, but you'll be able to say that you gave it your best result.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:16 AM on July 11, 2007
Ask her for some time. Then just casaully date, no sex, no specific timeframe for her, meaning don't tell her
"lets try this for x amount of time" i.e. don't pressure her. Then just be you and date her. Either she'll come around or she won't, but you'll be able to say that you gave it your best result.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:16 AM on July 11, 2007
What she is telling you may not be what she is thinking. She may be trying to let you down gently. The above advice is good, spend some time with her having fun, no pressure. If she's into it, she'll let you know...
posted by objdoc at 5:27 AM on July 11, 2007
posted by objdoc at 5:27 AM on July 11, 2007
Our most recent interactions would have gone beyond embrace if she didn't draw a line out of consideration for the other guy
Jaysis, I wouldn't date you. You missed the boat; she's probably better off.
posted by mr_book at 5:40 AM on July 11, 2007
Jaysis, I wouldn't date you. You missed the boat; she's probably better off.
posted by mr_book at 5:40 AM on July 11, 2007
i don't think there's anything you can do. she's got insecurity issues that are bigger than you (or the other guy). i think until she deals with those core issues, she's not going to commit to anyone.
although, on second thought... i also agree that she might just be letting you down easy. women at that age often don't trust that their own feelings are legitimate and will exaggerate the situation to keep the other party from getting mad at them. in other words, she could have turned her simple lack of attraction into a dysfunction so that you'll pity her instead.
fwiw, i doubt she is doing this maliciously. it's a natural instinct for any reasonably canny teenage girl, and in this country, in this day and age, 22 is still a teenager.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:41 AM on July 11, 2007
although, on second thought... i also agree that she might just be letting you down easy. women at that age often don't trust that their own feelings are legitimate and will exaggerate the situation to keep the other party from getting mad at them. in other words, she could have turned her simple lack of attraction into a dysfunction so that you'll pity her instead.
fwiw, i doubt she is doing this maliciously. it's a natural instinct for any reasonably canny teenage girl, and in this country, in this day and age, 22 is still a teenager.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:41 AM on July 11, 2007
oh, i misread the question. -she's- 25. well, maybe she's just immature.
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:42 AM on July 11, 2007
posted by thinkingwoman at 5:42 AM on July 11, 2007
If you really have strong feelings for her tell her and admit how immature you were and that you want to fix it.
And then go down the cliched movie route and tell her even though you know she's not ready that you'll wait.
And if you were serious you would.
posted by thelloydshow at 6:02 AM on July 11, 2007
And then go down the cliched movie route and tell her even though you know she's not ready that you'll wait.
And if you were serious you would.
posted by thelloydshow at 6:02 AM on July 11, 2007
Back off. Respect her. Be yourself, don't pine after her. No longing looks when you think she isn't watching. Chicks dig those 'respect' and 'space' things.
Unfortunately, it's likely that her "needs" don't include you at all. So I'd start moving on. ;)
posted by SpecialK at 6:05 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, it's likely that her "needs" don't include you at all. So I'd start moving on. ;)
posted by SpecialK at 6:05 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Most recently, she has decided that she wants to be single.
Yeah, but...no. No one decides that; not really. It sounds to me like she's decided she doesn't want a relationship with you, but doesn't want to make an argument out of it...hence, as thinkingwoman suggested, she's made it an it's-not-you-it's-me-I'm-too-damaged-to-go-ON! instead. That's either sweet or a little passive-aggressive...but either way, the problem is it gives you the impression that hanging around until it blows over may win the day. It won't. It'll just have you twisting in the wind till the day comes when her condition magically repairs itself and you're all of a sudden getting introduced to her new boyfriend. The horror...the horror! You don't wanna be that guy. Move on!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:44 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but...no. No one decides that; not really. It sounds to me like she's decided she doesn't want a relationship with you, but doesn't want to make an argument out of it...hence, as thinkingwoman suggested, she's made it an it's-not-you-it's-me-I'm-too-damaged-to-go-ON! instead. That's either sweet or a little passive-aggressive...but either way, the problem is it gives you the impression that hanging around until it blows over may win the day. It won't. It'll just have you twisting in the wind till the day comes when her condition magically repairs itself and you're all of a sudden getting introduced to her new boyfriend. The horror...the horror! You don't wanna be that guy. Move on!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:44 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
I want to offer a slightly different perspective.
You were a bit of a jerk. You ran hot and cold for not very good and/or not very well articulated reasons (from her point of view). While you were "here" (with her) you wanted to be with her, but when you weren't you didn't. Now you are back and you want to be her boyfriend. What has changed?
From her perspective NOTHING. You are still doing the same thing. Worse yet, you are saying, things like:
And I'm not making some promise to be with her in three years, I'm ready to start right now. (Like if she was a car dealer, I just walked in with a check for the sticker price).
But are you making promises to be around in the indefinte future? If she moves, or you move, are you telling her that the relationship will be one of the top considerations?
Frankly from what you describe you are not offering much more than you were before and I think she is looking for more. A couple of years ago, she was looking for a boyfriend and you weren't ready. Now it sounds she is looking for a very serious boyfriend; someone who would make a commitment to her. It may be as you have grown, so has she. If you want to be with her, you may need to take a giant leap forward in the level of commitment you make to win her.
Let me give you this thought excercise: can you imagine having kids with her or wanting her to be the mother of your kids? (I don't know if you or she want kids and for this excercise it doesn't mattter - this is a mental commitment excercise, not a do you want to have kids excercise). I don't know her, I don't know what she's thinking. But if she is saying she is tired of being hurt and tired of relationships, it may well be that she is tired of dating. I don't find that immature and the solution won't be "to work through her issues". The solution for her may ultimately be to find somene who can make a longterm commitment. The question you need to ask her is: Is that what she is looking for? and if it is, you need to ask yourself: Are you willing to make that commitment?
posted by zia at 6:45 AM on July 11, 2007 [5 favorites]
You were a bit of a jerk. You ran hot and cold for not very good and/or not very well articulated reasons (from her point of view). While you were "here" (with her) you wanted to be with her, but when you weren't you didn't. Now you are back and you want to be her boyfriend. What has changed?
From her perspective NOTHING. You are still doing the same thing. Worse yet, you are saying, things like:
And I'm not making some promise to be with her in three years, I'm ready to start right now. (Like if she was a car dealer, I just walked in with a check for the sticker price).
But are you making promises to be around in the indefinte future? If she moves, or you move, are you telling her that the relationship will be one of the top considerations?
Frankly from what you describe you are not offering much more than you were before and I think she is looking for more. A couple of years ago, she was looking for a boyfriend and you weren't ready. Now it sounds she is looking for a very serious boyfriend; someone who would make a commitment to her. It may be as you have grown, so has she. If you want to be with her, you may need to take a giant leap forward in the level of commitment you make to win her.
Let me give you this thought excercise: can you imagine having kids with her or wanting her to be the mother of your kids? (I don't know if you or she want kids and for this excercise it doesn't mattter - this is a mental commitment excercise, not a do you want to have kids excercise). I don't know her, I don't know what she's thinking. But if she is saying she is tired of being hurt and tired of relationships, it may well be that she is tired of dating. I don't find that immature and the solution won't be "to work through her issues". The solution for her may ultimately be to find somene who can make a longterm commitment. The question you need to ask her is: Is that what she is looking for? and if it is, you need to ask yourself: Are you willing to make that commitment?
posted by zia at 6:45 AM on July 11, 2007 [5 favorites]
I think milarepa has it about right. She's going to need time. But even though she says she's "not ready" and "doesn't want to be hurt again" my cards are on her wanting to be with you but she's just terrified of getting hurt again. (There's nothing worse than having to deal with yourself being stupid enough to get hurt twice by the same person.) And because you are both so, so young and might not know yet how to pursue relationships in a metered and self-protective way (ah, the all or nothing high drama of romance in your early 20s), that's probably a really good instinct.
My advice to you is to stay close and just be _exceedingly_ nice to her (flowers, little thoughtful gifts, checking in on her regularly to see how she is, etc.). Show her that you mean business this time. She's probably going to make you work for it and just let her know that that's a-ok with you. There is nothing that you've done that lacked integrity, and actually I commend you for being so aware of what you could and could not offer in college. But she probably still took that as a rejection of HER and so is wary now. The more you show her it was really about logistics and timing, and less about mediocre feelings for her last time around, the more she'll feel secure in moving forward in a relationship. Also, actively work to mediate behaviors attributable to being a "typically unobservant male". And stop saying that. Make an effort to tune in. You can do it, Colgate. :)
posted by smallstatic at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2007
My advice to you is to stay close and just be _exceedingly_ nice to her (flowers, little thoughtful gifts, checking in on her regularly to see how she is, etc.). Show her that you mean business this time. She's probably going to make you work for it and just let her know that that's a-ok with you. There is nothing that you've done that lacked integrity, and actually I commend you for being so aware of what you could and could not offer in college. But she probably still took that as a rejection of HER and so is wary now. The more you show her it was really about logistics and timing, and less about mediocre feelings for her last time around, the more she'll feel secure in moving forward in a relationship. Also, actively work to mediate behaviors attributable to being a "typically unobservant male". And stop saying that. Make an effort to tune in. You can do it, Colgate. :)
posted by smallstatic at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2007
She doesn't want to be with you. Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?
Let it go. Successful relationships involve the right kind of person at the right time. This is definitely not the right time for her (or you), and I don't think she's the right person for you (or you her). Be with someone who shares your vision - not someone you need to wheedle or strongarm into seeing things your way.
Work on you. Work on not being typical, or unobservant. Work on interacting with women (unless you are from a radically different culture, you don't really ask people to be your girlfriend once you're out of high school, it's really something you agree on together) on a more human level. Do some growing, make some more mistakes, learn from them. You're at a hard stage in the path to becoming a good partner, it's a struggle, but it will get easier.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:28 AM on July 11, 2007
Let it go. Successful relationships involve the right kind of person at the right time. This is definitely not the right time for her (or you), and I don't think she's the right person for you (or you her). Be with someone who shares your vision - not someone you need to wheedle or strongarm into seeing things your way.
Work on you. Work on not being typical, or unobservant. Work on interacting with women (unless you are from a radically different culture, you don't really ask people to be your girlfriend once you're out of high school, it's really something you agree on together) on a more human level. Do some growing, make some more mistakes, learn from them. You're at a hard stage in the path to becoming a good partner, it's a struggle, but it will get easier.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:28 AM on July 11, 2007
It sounds like you're still thinking about yourself right now - even trying to mask your "feelings" by trying to figure out her "needs" is bullshit - the only thing she sees is that you are still as selfish as you've always been. You played hot and cold over the last couple of years and now you want her to be your girlfriend. Nothing in your description shows that you actually took a chance and embraced her thoughts,feelings, suggestions, etc.
She's trying to let you down gently. You missed the boat. Back off and let her make a choice, on her own, without you around. If she comes back, then she wants a relationship. If not, next time a girl comes around, don't be such a fuck up.
posted by Stynxno at 7:36 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
She's trying to let you down gently. You missed the boat. Back off and let her make a choice, on her own, without you around. If she comes back, then she wants a relationship. If not, next time a girl comes around, don't be such a fuck up.
posted by Stynxno at 7:36 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Colgate, I find it hard to believe the responses that suggest you missed the boat. I think that most people don't lock themselves out of meaningful experiences that way - if they did, you probably wouldn't be interested in them.
Your best bet is to follow the advice of those who suggest that you give her time, but not time and distance. Be there for her, communicate, go beyond your comfort zone to be accessible and involved and responsive. If you are truly interested, you will be able to keep this up long enough, and only then she be able to see the weight that your promise has.
Further, I don't think you've been running "hot and cold." It's stressful to figure out a new relationship when you are thousands of miles away, and you could have been right to think she was on the same page as you about that. For all we know, she is the one running hot and cold. But what this scenario says is that the two of you need to learn something about communicating before you move any further together.
Best of luck.
posted by thejoshu at 7:51 AM on July 11, 2007
Your best bet is to follow the advice of those who suggest that you give her time, but not time and distance. Be there for her, communicate, go beyond your comfort zone to be accessible and involved and responsive. If you are truly interested, you will be able to keep this up long enough, and only then she be able to see the weight that your promise has.
Further, I don't think you've been running "hot and cold." It's stressful to figure out a new relationship when you are thousands of miles away, and you could have been right to think she was on the same page as you about that. For all we know, she is the one running hot and cold. But what this scenario says is that the two of you need to learn something about communicating before you move any further together.
Best of luck.
posted by thejoshu at 7:51 AM on July 11, 2007
I think Zia has it. She wants something serious and secure, and she'd rather be single than be in an unserious, insecure relationship. You're offering her an unserious, insecure relationship. Unless you can offer her a serious, secure relationship, which it doesn't sound like you can, because you're not ready yet to think about your future or hers in a long-term way, you shouldn't try to get into this with her.
I know you're not that far apart in age, but your early 20s are the years when a lot of people do a good chunk of their growing up. She may be in a different life-stage than you are, a stage where she's thinking about dating for the purpose of settling down to get married. A lot of people, especially women, are at her age. You may be doing the same in a couple of years. But right now, you're not, and so if that's the situation, you should leave this alone.
posted by decathecting at 8:33 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
I know you're not that far apart in age, but your early 20s are the years when a lot of people do a good chunk of their growing up. She may be in a different life-stage than you are, a stage where she's thinking about dating for the purpose of settling down to get married. A lot of people, especially women, are at her age. You may be doing the same in a couple of years. But right now, you're not, and so if that's the situation, you should leave this alone.
posted by decathecting at 8:33 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
She wants something serious and secure, and she'd rather be single than be in an unserious, insecure relationship. You're offering her an unserious, insecure relationship. Unless you can offer her a serious, secure relationship, which it doesn't sound like you can, because you're not ready yet to think about your future or hers in a long-term way, you shouldn't try to get into this with her.
This is it in a nutshell.
She wants a more emotionally mature relationship, and you -- not saying this to be mean, but only making an observation -- do not appear to be particularly emotionally mature.
She is not interested in a relationship with you. This can coexist with the fact that there happens to be chemistry between the two of you. She is not obliged to go out with you just because you happen to care for her and find her attractive. She wants something you can't offer.
She has, however, offered you the opportunity to learn to be more considerate, communicative, and honest. Your future relationships will be better for it.
posted by scody at 9:06 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
This is it in a nutshell.
She wants a more emotionally mature relationship, and you -- not saying this to be mean, but only making an observation -- do not appear to be particularly emotionally mature.
She is not interested in a relationship with you. This can coexist with the fact that there happens to be chemistry between the two of you. She is not obliged to go out with you just because you happen to care for her and find her attractive. She wants something you can't offer.
She has, however, offered you the opportunity to learn to be more considerate, communicative, and honest. Your future relationships will be better for it.
posted by scody at 9:06 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
From a random girl's perspective, it sounds like you said "Hey, listen, I'm not interested in being your boyfriend, but when I'm in town, we should have sex! Also, don't hassle me about anything emotional." and she gave in to that and didn't like it about herself. And now you're back, and you're saying "Hey! I'm back! Let's have sex again! Also, I guess I could be your boyfriend now!"
And this is coinciding with the mid-twenties gut check a lot of young ladies go through where you start to work out what it is YOU want, and stop letting boys treat you in ways you don't like.
And she's telling you she doesn't want to have a relationship with you. And you're not listening, because you're here! And you could be sleeping with her! Let's get this show on the road! And your needs are more important, aren't they?
Being single is an acceptable choice, you know. She's going through the process of working out what her relationship standards are, and she seems to be growing a new crop of self-value that doesn't hinge on a guy. That's WONDERFUL. Maybe it's not convenient for you, but hey.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:37 AM on July 11, 2007 [4 favorites]
And this is coinciding with the mid-twenties gut check a lot of young ladies go through where you start to work out what it is YOU want, and stop letting boys treat you in ways you don't like.
And she's telling you she doesn't want to have a relationship with you. And you're not listening, because you're here! And you could be sleeping with her! Let's get this show on the road! And your needs are more important, aren't they?
Being single is an acceptable choice, you know. She's going through the process of working out what her relationship standards are, and she seems to be growing a new crop of self-value that doesn't hinge on a guy. That's WONDERFUL. Maybe it's not convenient for you, but hey.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:37 AM on July 11, 2007 [4 favorites]
Most recently, she has decided that she wants to be single.
Yeah, but...no. No one decides that; not really.
i beg to differ.
but yeah, it does sound like you are not offering much more security than before. sounds like she needs something more in terms of commitment than you are offering (or have been able to convey to her).
but that said, i think ppl with those kinds of relationship insecurity issues—they really need to work those out for themselves. it's highly unlikely that there is anything anyone can say that will convince them to take the risk…because that is what getting into a relationship is: a risk. you are putting yourself out there and hoping the other person won't hurt you; there's no way that other person can absolutely guarantee that s/he won't, no matter how well-intentioned. so until she can get over her reluctance to take the risk, you can either move on or wait around.
posted by violetk at 10:11 AM on July 11, 2007
Yeah, but...no. No one decides that; not really.
i beg to differ.
but yeah, it does sound like you are not offering much more security than before. sounds like she needs something more in terms of commitment than you are offering (or have been able to convey to her).
but that said, i think ppl with those kinds of relationship insecurity issues—they really need to work those out for themselves. it's highly unlikely that there is anything anyone can say that will convince them to take the risk…because that is what getting into a relationship is: a risk. you are putting yourself out there and hoping the other person won't hurt you; there's no way that other person can absolutely guarantee that s/he won't, no matter how well-intentioned. so until she can get over her reluctance to take the risk, you can either move on or wait around.
posted by violetk at 10:11 AM on July 11, 2007
She needs to trust that you. It's that simple.
A casual attitude is the best way for you to prove yourself untrustworthy. She was -- and still is -- quite serious about how she feels about you. If you cannot match that then perhaps you really are not ready.
posted by cotterpin at 10:25 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
A casual attitude is the best way for you to prove yourself untrustworthy. She was -- and still is -- quite serious about how she feels about you. If you cannot match that then perhaps you really are not ready.
posted by cotterpin at 10:25 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
(Like if she was a car dealer, I just walked in with a check for the sticker price).
What? No, you didn't. Even if this was a good metaphor for a relationship, and I think it's really really not, you didn't. It's more like you walked into a dealership with a check for whatever you felt like paying and asked for a model that isn't on the market.
A person's trust is not a commodity.
posted by caitlinb at 11:04 AM on July 11, 2007
What? No, you didn't. Even if this was a good metaphor for a relationship, and I think it's really really not, you didn't. It's more like you walked into a dealership with a check for whatever you felt like paying and asked for a model that isn't on the market.
A person's trust is not a commodity.
posted by caitlinb at 11:04 AM on July 11, 2007
I don't understand why people are saying she has an insecurity issue. She was hurt before by you and she doesn't want to be hurt again in a situation where she will be more invested emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc. This isn't an issue. This is conditional learning.
I touch a hot stove and my hand gets burned. I've learned that touching the stove means pain. Sure, the stove may be off and cool next time, but I'm not touching that sucker again.
posted by spec80 at 11:33 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
I touch a hot stove and my hand gets burned. I've learned that touching the stove means pain. Sure, the stove may be off and cool next time, but I'm not touching that sucker again.
posted by spec80 at 11:33 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Now I am ready, but she says I'm too late– she can't risk getting hurt again
Oh woes! "Can't risk getting hurt again" is Melodramish for "exactly what kittens for breakfast said". If she were going to come to the party, you'd know it by now. She's obviously not coming to the party, and avoiding feeling bad about rejecting you by shifting the attention onto herself-as-victim. In particular, she's painted herself as *your* victim, so not only does she get off scot-free, but somehow it's all your fault.
On the other hand "can't risk getting hurt" could be a line drawn in the sand that demands that you be serious, or nothing happens...? I'd sway towards the first interpretation. If there's such amazing chemistry between you, that ought to override - what? - the fact that you had a casual relationship for up to a couple of years that didn't quite get off the ground? What exactly is so incredibly hurtful about that, that would make her shy away from doing what she claims she always wanted to do? Seriously, where is this massive pain that she's endured?
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:56 AM on July 11, 2007
Oh woes! "Can't risk getting hurt again" is Melodramish for "exactly what kittens for breakfast said". If she were going to come to the party, you'd know it by now. She's obviously not coming to the party, and avoiding feeling bad about rejecting you by shifting the attention onto herself-as-victim. In particular, she's painted herself as *your* victim, so not only does she get off scot-free, but somehow it's all your fault.
On the other hand "can't risk getting hurt" could be a line drawn in the sand that demands that you be serious, or nothing happens...? I'd sway towards the first interpretation. If there's such amazing chemistry between you, that ought to override - what? - the fact that you had a casual relationship for up to a couple of years that didn't quite get off the ground? What exactly is so incredibly hurtful about that, that would make her shy away from doing what she claims she always wanted to do? Seriously, where is this massive pain that she's endured?
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:56 AM on July 11, 2007
Hi, honey!
Well, not quite. My version of you just turned 24. We've had a somewhat more intense run of what you're describing here (four years, and his cooling-off periods away from me heavily involved another girl, which pretty much answered the question of whether I should give him more chances). Hurrah for being stupid and young, but there's a point at which it gets very old. I think your friend probably thinks so, and I imagine you're beginning to think so, too, or else you wouldn't be telling yourself that you're willing to give her at least some stability of affection from you.
Except she has absolutely no reason to believe you, at least from what you're telling us. Definitely, she messed up too, especially if you made it quite clear that you weren't looking for anything serious while you were getting together with her before. She's possibly seriously regretting the time she wasted, while wishing it could have meant more to you. What reassurances does she have that her time now wouldn't be wasted, and that her being there for you when you want her wouldn't be taken for granted?
As others have said, if you want a chance at a chance, you'll need to establish yourself as a stable presence by letting her see that you can be a friend to her. One that doesn't hit on her, particularly when she's stated that she's in a relationship with someone else. Respecting the lines she's drawn shows her that you respect her choices and needs, and that you may possibly be counted upon to do so in other ways. If you have the opportunity to show her that you were thinking of her, however randomly, when you were nowhere near her (weird yet endearing souvenir from a trip, mentioning a conversation you had with a friend that made you think of her), seize it. Just keep things friendly.
And meanwhile, live and be happy. I'm pretty sure that if I were to give my friend another chance, it'd be only after he had had a committed and enduring relationship with another girl, whom he treated well, that had ended naturally. Occasionally confiding in me that he had come to certain realizations about relationships thanks to his new experience, and some poignant regret that he didn't know these things when he and I were together, absolutely wouldn't hurt.
People have recovered from far worse abuses of trust than this, but it takes time and solid proof that things have changed. Good luck, whatever you decide.
posted by Gingersnap at 12:55 PM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Well, not quite. My version of you just turned 24. We've had a somewhat more intense run of what you're describing here (four years, and his cooling-off periods away from me heavily involved another girl, which pretty much answered the question of whether I should give him more chances). Hurrah for being stupid and young, but there's a point at which it gets very old. I think your friend probably thinks so, and I imagine you're beginning to think so, too, or else you wouldn't be telling yourself that you're willing to give her at least some stability of affection from you.
Except she has absolutely no reason to believe you, at least from what you're telling us. Definitely, she messed up too, especially if you made it quite clear that you weren't looking for anything serious while you were getting together with her before. She's possibly seriously regretting the time she wasted, while wishing it could have meant more to you. What reassurances does she have that her time now wouldn't be wasted, and that her being there for you when you want her wouldn't be taken for granted?
As others have said, if you want a chance at a chance, you'll need to establish yourself as a stable presence by letting her see that you can be a friend to her. One that doesn't hit on her, particularly when she's stated that she's in a relationship with someone else. Respecting the lines she's drawn shows her that you respect her choices and needs, and that you may possibly be counted upon to do so in other ways. If you have the opportunity to show her that you were thinking of her, however randomly, when you were nowhere near her (weird yet endearing souvenir from a trip, mentioning a conversation you had with a friend that made you think of her), seize it. Just keep things friendly.
And meanwhile, live and be happy. I'm pretty sure that if I were to give my friend another chance, it'd be only after he had had a committed and enduring relationship with another girl, whom he treated well, that had ended naturally. Occasionally confiding in me that he had come to certain realizations about relationships thanks to his new experience, and some poignant regret that he didn't know these things when he and I were together, absolutely wouldn't hurt.
People have recovered from far worse abuses of trust than this, but it takes time and solid proof that things have changed. Good luck, whatever you decide.
posted by Gingersnap at 12:55 PM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fool her once, shame on you
Fool her twice, shame on her.
She is obviously too smart for you and probably sees the selfishness in your actions better than you do. She also shows immense character by the way she turned you down.
You don't deserve her. Move on.
posted by Carnage Asada at 3:24 PM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fool her twice, shame on her.
She is obviously too smart for you and probably sees the selfishness in your actions better than you do. She also shows immense character by the way she turned you down.
You don't deserve her. Move on.
posted by Carnage Asada at 3:24 PM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fool her once, shame on you
Fool her twice, shame on her.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how she was fooled. The parameters of the long-distance "light" relationship sound like they were clearly & explicitly established. "She made it seem like things were fine", suggesting that she did little or nothing to express her unhappiness with the situation or to express any desire for something more, all the while apparently "feeling very hurt". This makes her kinda flaky at best, if not some kind of outright hypocrite.
The OP claims some responsibility, saying "in part because I'm your typical unobservant male", but it doesn't sound like he set out in any way to fool her; only to stick with the terms of the relationship, as discussed. Of course, this depends on exactly what he was choosing to overlook - "Oh! Look at that cute baby in the pram! I love babies! Do you love babies?" - but I can't see any abuse of trust issue here. It's not as if he broke any kind of express or implicit promise.
Her acting all wounded over him not doing something that he never promised to do is not an abuse of trust or a sign that he fooled her. It sounds more like she's been off writing her own story without paying much attention to what was actually going on around her.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:18 PM on July 11, 2007
Fool her twice, shame on her.
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how she was fooled. The parameters of the long-distance "light" relationship sound like they were clearly & explicitly established. "She made it seem like things were fine", suggesting that she did little or nothing to express her unhappiness with the situation or to express any desire for something more, all the while apparently "feeling very hurt". This makes her kinda flaky at best, if not some kind of outright hypocrite.
The OP claims some responsibility, saying "in part because I'm your typical unobservant male", but it doesn't sound like he set out in any way to fool her; only to stick with the terms of the relationship, as discussed. Of course, this depends on exactly what he was choosing to overlook - "Oh! Look at that cute baby in the pram! I love babies! Do you love babies?" - but I can't see any abuse of trust issue here. It's not as if he broke any kind of express or implicit promise.
Her acting all wounded over him not doing something that he never promised to do is not an abuse of trust or a sign that he fooled her. It sounds more like she's been off writing her own story without paying much attention to what was actually going on around her.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:18 PM on July 11, 2007
Uburoivas, why are you so hung up on blaming this girl? Do you have a similar situation in her own past?
Everyone is allowed to make decisions about who they want to be in relationships with or not, and she's made hers. How does that make you so cranky? People are also allowed to feel hurt whenever and about whatever they want, whether or not the reasons are stamped OKAY by you.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 4:42 PM on July 11, 2007
Everyone is allowed to make decisions about who they want to be in relationships with or not, and she's made hers. How does that make you so cranky? People are also allowed to feel hurt whenever and about whatever they want, whether or not the reasons are stamped OKAY by you.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 4:42 PM on July 11, 2007
No, not particularly. If anything, I've been on the girl's side, although not reacting quite the way she did. I just see a lot of people jumping on the OP & taking the position that he misled her, breached her trust etc, & I just don't see that borne out by the facts as stated.
The way I read it is that they had a casual, long distance relationship upon an agreed model, she wanted more, seemingly failed to be clear to the OP about what she wanted, and is now crying wounded. The OP framed the question in terms of regaining trust, but I don't see trust as relevant to what happened. She grew tired of waiting, moved on, and is using a standard its-not-you-it's-me-but-it's-really-you line to let him down lightly.
Of course, it's totally different if the OP was living in easy-casual la-la-land & wanting to string that out endlessly by wilfully ignoring blatant hints, but only the OP can tell if this is what happened.
And any element of crankiness can be attributed to a pre-caffeinated state first thing in the morning ;)
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:22 PM on July 11, 2007
The way I read it is that they had a casual, long distance relationship upon an agreed model, she wanted more, seemingly failed to be clear to the OP about what she wanted, and is now crying wounded. The OP framed the question in terms of regaining trust, but I don't see trust as relevant to what happened. She grew tired of waiting, moved on, and is using a standard its-not-you-it's-me-but-it's-really-you line to let him down lightly.
Of course, it's totally different if the OP was living in easy-casual la-la-land & wanting to string that out endlessly by wilfully ignoring blatant hints, but only the OP can tell if this is what happened.
And any element of crankiness can be attributed to a pre-caffeinated state first thing in the morning ;)
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:22 PM on July 11, 2007
why are you so hung up on blaming this girl?
Perhaps we shouldn't blame either or get into spats with other posters about who's righ. Perhaps we should just try to help the the original poster or move along.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:33 PM on July 11, 2007
Perhaps we shouldn't blame either or get into spats with other posters about who's righ. Perhaps we should just try to help the the original poster or move along.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:33 PM on July 11, 2007
True. To summarise: it's not about trust, so don't cling to regaining it as a possibility. She's moved on. phatkitten put it nicely: The resorting of my affection for him didn't involve the sailing of a ship that might eventually return to port, but rather the filling of a submarine with cement. That sucker's never going to float again.
(And speaking of things nautical, hmsbeagle is right, by the way - it's not for me or anybody else to judge if she had legitimate cause to feel hurt. That's her business)
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:53 PM on July 11, 2007
(And speaking of things nautical, hmsbeagle is right, by the way - it's not for me or anybody else to judge if she had legitimate cause to feel hurt. That's her business)
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:53 PM on July 11, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Have you tried this apology thing?
posted by uandt at 2:23 AM on July 11, 2007 [1 favorite]