thinking about sticking knife i my eye
January 9, 2007 8:36 AM Subscribe
I can't stand my brother-in-law.
He and my sister just finished and extended holiday visit. It was excruciating.
1. He has some sort of mild respiratory problem. He frequently sniffles, and when not sniffling I can still hear his labored whuffly breathing from accross the room. He never reaches for a tissue, just whuffles and snorts. Which leads to:
2. He SNORES. Like a bandsaw. I thought a perfectly reasonable response to his snoring was for me to listen to some soft music at a low volume, on a half hour sleep timer in order to drown out the noise, but apparently the music kept him awake and he complained to my sister who immediately started a fight with me. Which leads to:
3. His unending passivity. So passive that he almost never makes any kind of declarative statement; every sentence he says ends in a question mark, and if he ever makes the mistake of ending a sentence with a period he immediately tacks on the question 'what do you think about that?'
Seriously, I am finding it harder and harder to be close to my sister. When she is here wherever she goes, he has to tag along, even on a trip to buy bras. When he's not around we talk just the same as ever, but he's becoming ever present, and ever more annoying the longer I know him. Does this kind of situation sound familiar to anyone? Any ideas on how to cope?
He and my sister just finished and extended holiday visit. It was excruciating.
1. He has some sort of mild respiratory problem. He frequently sniffles, and when not sniffling I can still hear his labored whuffly breathing from accross the room. He never reaches for a tissue, just whuffles and snorts. Which leads to:
2. He SNORES. Like a bandsaw. I thought a perfectly reasonable response to his snoring was for me to listen to some soft music at a low volume, on a half hour sleep timer in order to drown out the noise, but apparently the music kept him awake and he complained to my sister who immediately started a fight with me. Which leads to:
3. His unending passivity. So passive that he almost never makes any kind of declarative statement; every sentence he says ends in a question mark, and if he ever makes the mistake of ending a sentence with a period he immediately tacks on the question 'what do you think about that?'
Seriously, I am finding it harder and harder to be close to my sister. When she is here wherever she goes, he has to tag along, even on a trip to buy bras. When he's not around we talk just the same as ever, but he's becoming ever present, and ever more annoying the longer I know him. Does this kind of situation sound familiar to anyone? Any ideas on how to cope?
I have a similar problem with my wife's sister's husband, who I guess is also my brother in law. My intolerance of him used to drive me, and consequently, my wife, insane. Eventually I realized that, since he is never going to change and she is never going to drop him, that the only person who can make any difference in our relationship is me.
I began to consider it my duty as part of her family to accept and be as patient as I can with him, and I'm surprised at how well this has worked. You might try it.
Good luck.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 8:54 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I began to consider it my duty as part of her family to accept and be as patient as I can with him, and I'm surprised at how well this has worked. You might try it.
Good luck.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 8:54 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
You're not going to get anywhere with the sniffling and snoring stuff. Maybe your sister or someone else close to him will make him do something about it at some point, but I think you're just going to have to live with that until they do.
Wanting to have some time alone with your sister is completely reasonable and will not be hard to arrange if you do your best to maintain a good relationship with your brother in law in general. Try to think of something good about him. Honestly I don't think there's much to do in this situation except make a special effort to keep showing your best side.
As M.C. Lo-Carb! said, you're basically stuck with him and need to make the best of it. The worst thing in this situation is to get tied up with being "right" as opposed to doing what's best for yourself.
posted by teleskiving at 9:03 AM on January 9, 2007
Wanting to have some time alone with your sister is completely reasonable and will not be hard to arrange if you do your best to maintain a good relationship with your brother in law in general. Try to think of something good about him. Honestly I don't think there's much to do in this situation except make a special effort to keep showing your best side.
As M.C. Lo-Carb! said, you're basically stuck with him and need to make the best of it. The worst thing in this situation is to get tied up with being "right" as opposed to doing what's best for yourself.
posted by teleskiving at 9:03 AM on January 9, 2007
The first two problems don't sound that bad (it's not like you live with them), but passivity is troublesome. Are you and your sister very close? He probably feels threatened by your relationship, especially if a) he thinks you don't like him and b) he thinks your opinion has a heavy influence on your sister.
Telling your sister he's a snuffly, snoring schlub probably isn't a good idea, though. He's her husband, and she chose him, for better or for worse. Unless there's something major going on (on the order of abuse or infidelity), I wouldn't bring up your personal dislike of him to her—what you don't want is a you-versus-them situation, because she's almost always going to side with him. (Heh. Can you tell I don't like my BIL either?)
I would try making plans with her that expressly don't include him—a spa trip for two, maybe. Don't be rude about it, though. Maybe tell your sister that you miss having one-on-one time with her, and ask her to do something with you, just the two of you. Also, how long have they been married? My sister and BIL were inseparable for the first year of their marriage (to the point where it was annoying), but now she's more receptive to going out on her own.
posted by timetoevolve at 9:03 AM on January 9, 2007
Telling your sister he's a snuffly, snoring schlub probably isn't a good idea, though. He's her husband, and she chose him, for better or for worse. Unless there's something major going on (on the order of abuse or infidelity), I wouldn't bring up your personal dislike of him to her—what you don't want is a you-versus-them situation, because she's almost always going to side with him. (Heh. Can you tell I don't like my BIL either?)
I would try making plans with her that expressly don't include him—a spa trip for two, maybe. Don't be rude about it, though. Maybe tell your sister that you miss having one-on-one time with her, and ask her to do something with you, just the two of you. Also, how long have they been married? My sister and BIL were inseparable for the first year of their marriage (to the point where it was annoying), but now she's more receptive to going out on her own.
posted by timetoevolve at 9:03 AM on January 9, 2007
You don't like him for other reasons, and you just pick a thing to focus on. Try this - pretend you really need a job from him. Then for one evening, just ONE evening, treat him that way. Be charming, be nice, be gracious towards him. Sacrifice yourself for just ONE evening.
See how you feel about him the next day. If you feel the same, just ignore him and be polite.
posted by markesh at 9:26 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
See how you feel about him the next day. If you feel the same, just ignore him and be polite.
posted by markesh at 9:26 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Next time, you suggest that they stay in a hotel, which will be more comfortable for them. Hell, offer to help pay for it...it'll be worth it. That way, "your music won't bother him" i.e., there will be fewer hours for you to endure his wheezing and snoring.
This may improve the situation so much that he may be less of a tag-a-long. Or it may not. But it'll help your patience as you grit your teeth every time he asks? what you think?
posted by desuetude at 9:26 AM on January 9, 2007
This may improve the situation so much that he may be less of a tag-a-long. Or it may not. But it'll help your patience as you grit your teeth every time he asks? what you think?
posted by desuetude at 9:26 AM on January 9, 2007
He has health issues and is too nice? No offense but the problem may be you. The issue with him tagging along may be your sister's desire and not his. Talk to her about it.
posted by damn dirty ape at 9:40 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by damn dirty ape at 9:40 AM on January 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Are there any activities that you can suggest to your sister, like "just us girls" type of thing? (I am assuming you are female from your buying bras example; sorry if I am incorrect). My sister's boyfriend is a wonderful guy and she loves my fiance, but sometimes we like to do stuff that involves just the two of us. Sometimes there are things only your sibling understands, especially if you need a good bitching session about your parents!
I am really curious to know how your sister sleeps if her husband's snoring is so loud someone can hear it in another room. If she is a heavy sleeper, it sounds like she's lucky. Snoring drives me absolutely bananas.
When he visits, do you offer him tissues or OTC allergy medicine? I always have tissues around the house and as soon as someone starts sniffling I give them a box, just because I can't stand the sound. I don't force it on them or anything, but it can be a subtle way of saying, "Your sniffling is driving me nuts, please blow your nose." People definitely don't always realize when a behavior that seems normal to them can be really annoying to others.
posted by sutel at 9:45 AM on January 9, 2007
I am really curious to know how your sister sleeps if her husband's snoring is so loud someone can hear it in another room. If she is a heavy sleeper, it sounds like she's lucky. Snoring drives me absolutely bananas.
When he visits, do you offer him tissues or OTC allergy medicine? I always have tissues around the house and as soon as someone starts sniffling I give them a box, just because I can't stand the sound. I don't force it on them or anything, but it can be a subtle way of saying, "Your sniffling is driving me nuts, please blow your nose." People definitely don't always realize when a behavior that seems normal to them can be really annoying to others.
posted by sutel at 9:45 AM on January 9, 2007
I don't think it's unreasonable to avoid situations that involve you two sleeping in proximity. If the issue arises in the future, tell your sister you cannot sleep near him and need them to make alternate arrangements.
posted by Kimberly at 10:00 AM on January 9, 2007
posted by Kimberly at 10:00 AM on January 9, 2007
Ear plugs at night.
Give him an alternative activity while you spend time with your sister. "He brother in law, would you be a doll and pick up some bread, milk and butter at the store while your wife and I run to the bra shop and for a quick bite? Thanks, I really appreciate it. You're such a doll." He should be too passive to say no. Your sister is unlikely to say, "My husband is not capable of that, he has to come with us he is such a wimp." If she does, then kiss your relationship with your sister goodbye.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:03 AM on January 9, 2007
Give him an alternative activity while you spend time with your sister. "He brother in law, would you be a doll and pick up some bread, milk and butter at the store while your wife and I run to the bra shop and for a quick bite? Thanks, I really appreciate it. You're such a doll." He should be too passive to say no. Your sister is unlikely to say, "My husband is not capable of that, he has to come with us he is such a wimp." If she does, then kiss your relationship with your sister goodbye.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:03 AM on January 9, 2007
The truth is you've got to be nice to this guy. He hasn't done anything truly offensive and anything you brinig up with your sister in that vein is just going to become a source of bad feeling (she'll be upset with you, tell him all about it, and then he'll get even more annoying, I'm sure) far worse than what you dislike now. You've got to go at it positively. If you want to see her without him around, suggest that you do something "just us" like a girls night out (again, assuming you're a girl, but I'm sure you can find an equivalent even if you're a guy - just say you want to have some "brother sister time"). If he's sniffling, sutel's suggestion is fabulous - just hand him a box of tissues. And get some earplugs for the next time they visit.
What I do is try to make it a game to make my in laws like me as much as possible and to make myself enjoy spending time with them as much as possible. It doesn't always work (I have one in law who does this atrocious sucking thing with her gums every five seconds it seems), but it's worth the effort because my partner loves her family. Isn't making nice worth it to make your sister happy?
posted by marginaliana at 10:04 AM on January 9, 2007
What I do is try to make it a game to make my in laws like me as much as possible and to make myself enjoy spending time with them as much as possible. It doesn't always work (I have one in law who does this atrocious sucking thing with her gums every five seconds it seems), but it's worth the effort because my partner loves her family. Isn't making nice worth it to make your sister happy?
posted by marginaliana at 10:04 AM on January 9, 2007
He=Hey
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:05 AM on January 9, 2007
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:05 AM on January 9, 2007
Also, go visit them. He will probably have a life of his own at home and will not be so clingy. He can do whatever he would have done had you not come to visit. When they come to your place, he is out of sorts and needs the comfort of his wife (your sister).
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:08 AM on January 9, 2007
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:08 AM on January 9, 2007
Tell your sister that you are concerned about his evident respiratory problems. Suggest she ask him to wear Breathe-Right Strips at night and have a doctor evaluate his health. (I, too, find nasal noises repulsive.)
posted by Carol Anne at 10:31 AM on January 9, 2007
posted by Carol Anne at 10:31 AM on January 9, 2007
You have to accept that what you consider an intrusion is most likely the way your sister likes things to be. Which is a bummer since it's not really a healthy way to conduct a relationship, and because her friendship with you and likely her other friends will degrade. Ideally they'd be setting some boundaries so that they get their own individual time and friends and interests.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to her, "I'd love if we could schedule a few things just for the two of us this week," and then suggest a few specific things you'd like to do alone with her.
posted by loiseau at 10:36 AM on January 9, 2007
I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to her, "I'd love if we could schedule a few things just for the two of us this week," and then suggest a few specific things you'd like to do alone with her.
posted by loiseau at 10:36 AM on January 9, 2007
I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to her, "I'd love if we could schedule a few things just for the two of us this week," and then suggest a few specific things you'd like to do alone with her.
I disagree, I think saying "I'd like to spend some alone time with you," to someone who is not a romantic partner, is weird and would likely be offensive.
posted by jayder at 11:10 AM on January 9, 2007
I disagree, I think saying "I'd like to spend some alone time with you," to someone who is not a romantic partner, is weird and would likely be offensive.
posted by jayder at 11:10 AM on January 9, 2007
The guy is already aware that you don't like him, hence the constant questions: he doesn't want to offend you by speaking the wrong opinion. A sit down with him may be in order - "Hey, Brother-In-Schlub, I'm aware that there's some awkwardness between us and I'd like to hash it out. I love my sister and want to spend time with her, and since you're a big part of her life, I want things to be okay between us."
At the very least, you can get him to feel okay about complaining to you about your snore-interrupting music, not your sister.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:56 AM on January 9, 2007
At the very least, you can get him to feel okay about complaining to you about your snore-interrupting music, not your sister.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:56 AM on January 9, 2007
Jayder, I'd like to spend some time alone with you.
If she loves him, really it might help for you to talk to her more about the history of their relationship and about what their life together is like. Learn to see him through her eyes. Your judgments may or may not have any bearing on reality, and the only way to find out is to step outside yourself.
As for getting her alone, buy two tickets: symphony, theatre, movie, whatever. Preferably something where the seats are not general admission and another person can't tag along. "Hey sis, I'm suck with an extra ticket for next weekend. Why don't you and I go out and then catch up over a late dinner?" If it's fun, try it again every now and then until it's a monthly ritual and you get to drop the pretense.
posted by hermitosis at 11:57 AM on January 9, 2007
If she loves him, really it might help for you to talk to her more about the history of their relationship and about what their life together is like. Learn to see him through her eyes. Your judgments may or may not have any bearing on reality, and the only way to find out is to step outside yourself.
As for getting her alone, buy two tickets: symphony, theatre, movie, whatever. Preferably something where the seats are not general admission and another person can't tag along. "Hey sis, I'm suck with an extra ticket for next weekend. Why don't you and I go out and then catch up over a late dinner?" If it's fun, try it again every now and then until it's a monthly ritual and you get to drop the pretense.
posted by hermitosis at 11:57 AM on January 9, 2007
Tell your sister to have him evaluated for sleep apnea.
posted by konolia at 12:31 PM on January 9, 2007
posted by konolia at 12:31 PM on January 9, 2007
I can sympathize with your frustration with the loud breathing. It gets to some of us more than others, but I haven't found a way to cope other than just sucking it up and distracting myself. My advice to you would be to do the same, since he can't really change that.
With regard to his always tagging along: if you're a girl, can you label your plans "girls' day/night out?" That's pretty hard to argue with. If you're her brother, you might be able to frame your invitations as some sort of family thing, or "for old time's sake." This will, of course, only work if she doesn't want him hanging around all the time: if the inseparability is mutual, you might just have to learn to tolerate him hanging around.
Either way, it might do you some good to try to find some things you like about him. There has to be something she sees in him' try to figure it out or even ask her. Does he at least treat her well? A little respect can go a long way.
Finally, extended holiday visits can be trying on anyone. Next time, try to work out a shorter visit, or suggest they stay in a local hotel.
Good luck!
posted by AV at 12:45 PM on January 9, 2007
With regard to his always tagging along: if you're a girl, can you label your plans "girls' day/night out?" That's pretty hard to argue with. If you're her brother, you might be able to frame your invitations as some sort of family thing, or "for old time's sake." This will, of course, only work if she doesn't want him hanging around all the time: if the inseparability is mutual, you might just have to learn to tolerate him hanging around.
Either way, it might do you some good to try to find some things you like about him. There has to be something she sees in him' try to figure it out or even ask her. Does he at least treat her well? A little respect can go a long way.
Finally, extended holiday visits can be trying on anyone. Next time, try to work out a shorter visit, or suggest they stay in a local hotel.
Good luck!
posted by AV at 12:45 PM on January 9, 2007
You could try the direct approach - "Hey, BIL, your sniffling is driving me nuts. Get a tissue, would you?" Not in a mean tone, in a humorous kind of way. Similarly, "My sister and I are going to the grocery store. You can't come. Bye!" Shouldn't hurt his feelings, unless he already is convinced you hate him. For the statement-as-question thing, just reply "are you asking me?".
The snoring... well, at least it only comes up a few times a year as a problem, I'd guess. That's probably one you're going to have to chalk up to "the things we put up with for family."
posted by ctmf at 2:37 PM on January 9, 2007
The snoring... well, at least it only comes up a few times a year as a problem, I'd guess. That's probably one you're going to have to chalk up to "the things we put up with for family."
posted by ctmf at 2:37 PM on January 9, 2007
loiseau: "I think it's perfectly reasonable to say to her, "I'd love if we could schedule a few things just for the two of us this week," and then suggest a few specific things you'd like to do alone with her.
jayder: "I disagree, I think saying "I'd like to spend some alone time with you," to someone who is not a romantic partner, is weird and would likely be offensive."
Really? Interesting. I know I've said this to my mother before, and I'm not particularly close to her. If I was going to say it to a girlfriend I'd probably frame it as a "girl time" thing, but I think she should be able to say such a thing to her sister.
posted by loiseau at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2007
jayder: "I disagree, I think saying "I'd like to spend some alone time with you," to someone who is not a romantic partner, is weird and would likely be offensive."
Really? Interesting. I know I've said this to my mother before, and I'm not particularly close to her. If I was going to say it to a girlfriend I'd probably frame it as a "girl time" thing, but I think she should be able to say such a thing to her sister.
posted by loiseau at 6:43 PM on January 9, 2007
You know, the sniffling, the snoring, the wheezing....I think he's got sinus and/or deviated septum issues. In which case, the best thing for him is the surgery. I got it and I feel 100% better every day. And I never hear myself doing all the things I used to do, respirationally.
Plus, the surgery should put him down for two weeks. IN which case, you can enjoy some family time without him.
IN three months, he won't sound half as annoying. Except for his passivity. And you'll have gotten some time with the sis sans him regardless.
posted by rileyray3000 at 7:19 PM on January 9, 2007
Plus, the surgery should put him down for two weeks. IN which case, you can enjoy some family time without him.
IN three months, he won't sound half as annoying. Except for his passivity. And you'll have gotten some time with the sis sans him regardless.
posted by rileyray3000 at 7:19 PM on January 9, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
Duh.
posted by jellicle at 8:52 AM on January 9, 2007