How do I gain more respect at work?
November 17, 2006 9:44 AM Subscribe
How can I gain more respect at work? I get patronized and condescended to all the time, and it's driving me nuts!
I work at a college and one of my roles is to support the faculty in my department (which can be anything from making copies to helping them with minor computer problems). Most of the people here are very nice and speak highly of my work. However, there are several who really grind my gears because they treat me like I'm either five years old or like I am nothing better than the dirt on the bottom of their shoes. They don't let me finish my sentences - they start completely talking over me if I have a question or comment. They generally have a look on their face that is somewhat of a sneer. They will oftentimes speak slowly and ask me, "So, do you understand that?" as though I am child who just learned how to put her shoes on by herself.
So far all I've been doing is trying to remain strictly as professional as possible and to appear as confident as I can - by sitting up straight, by taking notes, by dressing older (our office is super-casual and almost everyone wears jeans, but I've been trying to wear more "office casual" apparel lately) and I even tried putting on my glasses once to see if that would have any effect. Nada. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that no other staff member gets treated this way.
I did just have my review and it was glowing, so I'm not worried that they're running to my boss and complaining that I'm an idiot. I do my work quickly and promptly, and although I am not perfect, I really see no reason why someone should think I'm stupid.
The patronizing thing happens to me a lot outside of work as well; I'm a small woman who looks much younger than she actually is (I'm 26 but have been mistaken for a high schooler many times). I can be quiet and a bit shy sometimes. And my job is really, basically, a glorified secretary. I accept that there are just people out there who are just jerks to women and admins alike and if it's a random stranger in a store, who cares? But I feel like since work is more of a permanent thing, short of bitching about it to my boyfriend and trying to shrug it off, is there anything I can do that will garner me more respect?
I work at a college and one of my roles is to support the faculty in my department (which can be anything from making copies to helping them with minor computer problems). Most of the people here are very nice and speak highly of my work. However, there are several who really grind my gears because they treat me like I'm either five years old or like I am nothing better than the dirt on the bottom of their shoes. They don't let me finish my sentences - they start completely talking over me if I have a question or comment. They generally have a look on their face that is somewhat of a sneer. They will oftentimes speak slowly and ask me, "So, do you understand that?" as though I am child who just learned how to put her shoes on by herself.
So far all I've been doing is trying to remain strictly as professional as possible and to appear as confident as I can - by sitting up straight, by taking notes, by dressing older (our office is super-casual and almost everyone wears jeans, but I've been trying to wear more "office casual" apparel lately) and I even tried putting on my glasses once to see if that would have any effect. Nada. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that no other staff member gets treated this way.
I did just have my review and it was glowing, so I'm not worried that they're running to my boss and complaining that I'm an idiot. I do my work quickly and promptly, and although I am not perfect, I really see no reason why someone should think I'm stupid.
The patronizing thing happens to me a lot outside of work as well; I'm a small woman who looks much younger than she actually is (I'm 26 but have been mistaken for a high schooler many times). I can be quiet and a bit shy sometimes. And my job is really, basically, a glorified secretary. I accept that there are just people out there who are just jerks to women and admins alike and if it's a random stranger in a store, who cares? But I feel like since work is more of a permanent thing, short of bitching about it to my boyfriend and trying to shrug it off, is there anything I can do that will garner me more respect?
The other thing may be to figure out if the guys who are talking over you are just the pretentious "in love with their own voices" types, or the "I know so much more than anyone else" know-it-all types. If they're either, you might want to up the flattery and basically give the impression that you utterly rely on their expertise and could they pretty please help you with X...
On the other hand, if they're the type that just don't want to be bothered with anything, then make sure you're keeping your comments or questions super-short and that you're apologizing (concisely) for interrupting them.
posted by occhiblu at 9:58 AM on November 17, 2006
On the other hand, if they're the type that just don't want to be bothered with anything, then make sure you're keeping your comments or questions super-short and that you're apologizing (concisely) for interrupting them.
posted by occhiblu at 9:58 AM on November 17, 2006
Part of the reason people might think you "don't understand" something is because you really don't fit in. If everyone dresses "Super casual" why are you sitting straight and dressing older? Don't dress up, dress down! A lot of people like to pound on that nail that sticks out. By acting "better" than others in the office (at least that's my reading) you're making yourself a target. From their (they=the assholes) POV you're this glorified secretary they only have to deal with when some stupid thing is being stupid. Yet she's trying to act better than us even though we're been here longer, have more education, more money, whatever.
Oh, and humans are, more often than we'd like, huge raging annoying idiots and nothing can be done about it. We really don't get to change people's opinions of ourselves so we learn to ignore it. Or better yet, get in a position where we can tell those people to screw off.
posted by Ookseer at 9:58 AM on November 17, 2006
Oh, and humans are, more often than we'd like, huge raging annoying idiots and nothing can be done about it. We really don't get to change people's opinions of ourselves so we learn to ignore it. Or better yet, get in a position where we can tell those people to screw off.
posted by Ookseer at 9:58 AM on November 17, 2006
Gosh, I could have written this three years ago; I spent a year as a departmental secretary at a large state university, looked younger than my age, etc.
Part of my problem was that I was not over-40, Pentecostal, and related to all the other secretaries, so I was completely excluded from their social support network; some of the professors couldn't figure out whether to treat me like the other secretaries or like a student. Finding the other younger support staff in the building and hanging out with them helped me figure out which of the professers were just jerks to everyone.
Having a good rapport with one of the professors I supported was key, especially since he'd give me complex projects that other professors would see the results of ("oh yeah, nonane did those graphs/statistics/slides").
I definitely second occhiblu's suggestion about listing things you've already tried and possible solutions, especially when dealing with IT staff/facilities/vendors.
posted by nonane at 10:02 AM on November 17, 2006
Part of my problem was that I was not over-40, Pentecostal, and related to all the other secretaries, so I was completely excluded from their social support network; some of the professors couldn't figure out whether to treat me like the other secretaries or like a student. Finding the other younger support staff in the building and hanging out with them helped me figure out which of the professers were just jerks to everyone.
Having a good rapport with one of the professors I supported was key, especially since he'd give me complex projects that other professors would see the results of ("oh yeah, nonane did those graphs/statistics/slides").
I definitely second occhiblu's suggestion about listing things you've already tried and possible solutions, especially when dealing with IT staff/facilities/vendors.
posted by nonane at 10:02 AM on November 17, 2006
I'm in the same position as you (same age, look 10 years younger, work at a higher ed school), and I can honestly say - it's not you, it's them.
A lot of the professors I come across at work have a chip on their shoulder. They think that because they have a PhD or 5, they are smarter, better, busier and more important than everyone else. And when you do outsmart them, they can act like children. (I once solved a problem for a faculty member in 5 minutes after he spent 3 hours working on it. He stormed out of my office.)
I usually just maintain the utmost professionalism, smile to their faces, and gripe with my fellow understanding coworkers when they're out of earshot.
posted by geeky at 10:08 AM on November 17, 2006
A lot of the professors I come across at work have a chip on their shoulder. They think that because they have a PhD or 5, they are smarter, better, busier and more important than everyone else. And when you do outsmart them, they can act like children. (I once solved a problem for a faculty member in 5 minutes after he spent 3 hours working on it. He stormed out of my office.)
I usually just maintain the utmost professionalism, smile to their faces, and gripe with my fellow understanding coworkers when they're out of earshot.
posted by geeky at 10:08 AM on November 17, 2006
What occhiblu said. Academe is rife with condescension no matter your gender, size or age. A couple of hints I've given to women in a similar situation:
1) Don't smile (as occhiblu said) practise a poker face. It confounds us men.
2) Train your voice to speak in a lower register and avoid any transition words such as "like," or "uhm."
3) Don't fold your arms over your chest. It may be comfortable and make you feel more powerful but it comes across as defensive. Stand up straight! Arms akimbo! Look the bastards in the eye!
Many male professors are insecure and therefore sexist and egotistical. That just seem to go with the territory. It might be helpful to find a successful older woman where you work to get some hints and share war stories.
Hang in there.
posted by Floydd at 10:14 AM on November 17, 2006
1) Don't smile (as occhiblu said) practise a poker face. It confounds us men.
2) Train your voice to speak in a lower register and avoid any transition words such as "like," or "uhm."
3) Don't fold your arms over your chest. It may be comfortable and make you feel more powerful but it comes across as defensive. Stand up straight! Arms akimbo! Look the bastards in the eye!
Many male professors are insecure and therefore sexist and egotistical. That just seem to go with the territory. It might be helpful to find a successful older woman where you work to get some hints and share war stories.
Hang in there.
posted by Floydd at 10:14 AM on November 17, 2006
you are obviously not being taken seriously. keep in mind that respect is earned, not given. (only truly kind people do that and those are rare.) still: especially educators should know better than treat you the way they do.
here is what I recommend you do in order to make these obviously superficial people (they are after all judging you by first impressions) take note and begin thinking about you.
1. they think they know who you are. that tells me you are easy to read. perhaps you smile a lot? it is their impression that you are less intellectually capable than they are. confuse them. remove personal items (picture frames, etc) from visible areas and replace them with a rotation of magazines and books they most likely wouldn't expect you to be reading. try the economist, the new yorker, the wall street journal. they're all pretty damn interesting publications anyway and you'll most likely end up reading them during your commute but having them on your desk alone will say something entirely different from displaying US weekly. also take a look at what the person who is looking down onto you the most is reading and look into that.
2. it's about sincerity. once you learn how to fake it, you're unstoppable. make direct eye contact when they talk to you. stay on them. keep expressions to an absolute bare minimum. wait until they are done rambling on. if they love hearing their own voices, let them get it all out. when you're asked, begin your response with a comment on something they said. "your comment you wanted x is a good idea. we could ..." be confident, kep your answers to a bare minimum and be smart. nothing beats someone who is just sharp as a tack.
3. go for dark clothes. black is commanding. understated elegance. shallow, yes. but every $200-bucks-socks boutique-clerk will tell you it works.
posted by krautland at 10:15 AM on November 17, 2006
You know, nonane raises a good point in passing. Some professors are used to supervising work-study students or lab assistants, who are often young, flaky and unprofessional — many are teenagers working their first job ever. Could that be what's going on here? Does your department hire work-study kids — and do they get the same condescending treatment that you do? If so, you might try to find ways to separate yourself from them.
Also, since you mention that the other staffers get more respect — are you close enough to any of them to ask how they do it? If you don't want to ask flat out, could you maybe drop a hint or two? ("Man, Dr. Foo can be so weird sometimes. I don't know what it is; he's always so nice to you...") If course, if you're not friends, or if it's a gossipy office, this could be a mistake; you'll know better than we will if it's likely to pay off.
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:23 AM on November 17, 2006
Also, since you mention that the other staffers get more respect — are you close enough to any of them to ask how they do it? If you don't want to ask flat out, could you maybe drop a hint or two? ("Man, Dr. Foo can be so weird sometimes. I don't know what it is; he's always so nice to you...") If course, if you're not friends, or if it's a gossipy office, this could be a mistake; you'll know better than we will if it's likely to pay off.
posted by nebulawindphone at 10:23 AM on November 17, 2006
It may not be possible to get the respect you want from some people, perhaps because of your role or your appearance and you may need to resign yourself to that.
However, if you can put yourself in a position where they need to come to you to solve their problems, where you are answering questions rather than asking them, that might level the playing field (or, as geeky pointed out, it might backfire).
Other alternatives: Wear platform shoes. Start a rumor about the time you shanked a guard in the joint.
posted by adamrice at 10:27 AM on November 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
However, if you can put yourself in a position where they need to come to you to solve their problems, where you are answering questions rather than asking them, that might level the playing field (or, as geeky pointed out, it might backfire).
Other alternatives: Wear platform shoes. Start a rumor about the time you shanked a guard in the joint.
posted by adamrice at 10:27 AM on November 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I'd look elsewhere. Is your school big, public or small and private? I have a clerical job in the business office of a large state school. A friend who has been here 12+ years recently told me, "this place attracts crazy people, so if you're not crazy you can move to another area very easily." Haven't tried that yet, but I come in contact with a lot of egomaniacal dipshits and I just don't tolerate it. Sometimes I play dumb, or put their projects at the bottom of my list. Since they need me to get things done, I make them understand that when they treat me like a human, not a dumb slave, they are going to receive a quicker, better response.
As a guy of average stature, I'm not in the same position as you, but if you assert yourself that may make them respect or even fear you a little bit as you are probably capable of making their work lives hell.
It ain't the nicest way to do things, but it sure is effective.
posted by look busy at 10:35 AM on November 17, 2006
As a guy of average stature, I'm not in the same position as you, but if you assert yourself that may make them respect or even fear you a little bit as you are probably capable of making their work lives hell.
It ain't the nicest way to do things, but it sure is effective.
posted by look busy at 10:35 AM on November 17, 2006
I feel your pain! I work in a similar environment with a comparable group of academics. As others have noted, insecurity is rampant in the academic world and produces some annoying and juvenile behavior.
Based on my own experience, I think WCityMike and geeky are spot-on. I would first ascertain if this situation is something you think you can change. If you determine that you cannot (very likely), then all you can do is protect yourself from the psychologically debilitating effects of such treatment.
I would act professionally when dealing with everyone but simultaneously turn a deaf ear/blind eye to their tone, demeanor, etc. I would then find people - either at work or in your personal life - with whom you can vent when you feel overwhelmed.
I have also found that not dwelling on what's been asked of me (or the tone/language in which it was asked) has helped me feel less fazed by my co-workers. Unless, of course, faculty members are making unreasonable or impossible demands. Assuming not, I would just take the instructions, start working, and let go of the encounter.
posted by anonymous78 at 10:38 AM on November 17, 2006
Based on my own experience, I think WCityMike and geeky are spot-on. I would first ascertain if this situation is something you think you can change. If you determine that you cannot (very likely), then all you can do is protect yourself from the psychologically debilitating effects of such treatment.
I would act professionally when dealing with everyone but simultaneously turn a deaf ear/blind eye to their tone, demeanor, etc. I would then find people - either at work or in your personal life - with whom you can vent when you feel overwhelmed.
I have also found that not dwelling on what's been asked of me (or the tone/language in which it was asked) has helped me feel less fazed by my co-workers. Unless, of course, faculty members are making unreasonable or impossible demands. Assuming not, I would just take the instructions, start working, and let go of the encounter.
posted by anonymous78 at 10:38 AM on November 17, 2006
Response by poster: Hi all, thanks for the great advice.
Some responses:
Ookseeker, the reason I try to look a bit more "office casual" is because in the outer world I get more respect than I usually do. I don't get carded at a bar, for example, if I'm not dressed in my usual jeans and t-shirt but in something more "adult." But I don't dress that way every day - I try to look a bit more cleaned-up when I know I have a meeting. Many times I do dress just as casually as everyone else here.
nebulawindphone, Yes, we do have work-studies who get treated like I do. Unfortunately, I sit right next to them at the front desk - a lot of random people walking in think I'm a student too. It is a little hard to separate myself from them, I think, just because I am sitting right there with them (and I am technically their supervisor!)
I think the reason most of the other staffers here get treated with more respect is that A). they're older (40s) B). they've been here longer and C). their jobs have more status than a secretary or general administrator. I don't think I have control over any of those.
I do try not to dwell on it too much; I would say 75% of the faculty here are great. There are even a few who won't trust anyone else but me to do any of their tasks, even their oh-so-special photocopying :) It's just annoying, you know?
I'll be out of here in a year; since I work at a college they pay for tuition if I want to get a masters, which is really great. I'm going to be wrapping up classes in Fall 2007, so I don't intend on working here any more than that. And my boss is so flexible with my schedule that I'd rather not transfer to another department and perhaps get a boss who isn't so accommodating.
Thank you so much for the posts; you guys have some great tips and tactics I'm going to try. I really appreciate the thoughtful answers.
posted by sutel at 10:50 AM on November 17, 2006
Some responses:
Ookseeker, the reason I try to look a bit more "office casual" is because in the outer world I get more respect than I usually do. I don't get carded at a bar, for example, if I'm not dressed in my usual jeans and t-shirt but in something more "adult." But I don't dress that way every day - I try to look a bit more cleaned-up when I know I have a meeting. Many times I do dress just as casually as everyone else here.
nebulawindphone, Yes, we do have work-studies who get treated like I do. Unfortunately, I sit right next to them at the front desk - a lot of random people walking in think I'm a student too. It is a little hard to separate myself from them, I think, just because I am sitting right there with them (and I am technically their supervisor!)
I think the reason most of the other staffers here get treated with more respect is that A). they're older (40s) B). they've been here longer and C). their jobs have more status than a secretary or general administrator. I don't think I have control over any of those.
I do try not to dwell on it too much; I would say 75% of the faculty here are great. There are even a few who won't trust anyone else but me to do any of their tasks, even their oh-so-special photocopying :) It's just annoying, you know?
I'll be out of here in a year; since I work at a college they pay for tuition if I want to get a masters, which is really great. I'm going to be wrapping up classes in Fall 2007, so I don't intend on working here any more than that. And my boss is so flexible with my schedule that I'd rather not transfer to another department and perhaps get a boss who isn't so accommodating.
Thank you so much for the posts; you guys have some great tips and tactics I'm going to try. I really appreciate the thoughtful answers.
posted by sutel at 10:50 AM on November 17, 2006
as someone said, it's not you, it's them. Cliched but very very true.
I have worked at a lot of offices and found that dumb people tend to treat others as if they were dumb. Sorry I don't really have a solution, just that observation. I try to remind myself that it's not me; it's their poor social skills/intelligence at work, so I have nothing to feel bad about.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:52 AM on November 17, 2006
I have worked at a lot of offices and found that dumb people tend to treat others as if they were dumb. Sorry I don't really have a solution, just that observation. I try to remind myself that it's not me; it's their poor social skills/intelligence at work, so I have nothing to feel bad about.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:52 AM on November 17, 2006
Response by poster: Oh, I forgot to add this response to krautland:
I'm not really supposed to have personal items on my desk, unfortunately. I don't read US Weekly or People or anything like that, and I have brought in or mentioned articles in the New Yorker (I have a subscription) for a few of the non-jerky profs that I thought they would like. And I can definitely see some respect gained when I mention that I'm going to grad school part-time - if there's anything academic people appreciate, it's more and more degrees! Heh. It doesn't really seem to work on the jerky profs, but some of the non-jerky ones have been extra nice lately, so maybe I am doing some things right.
posted by sutel at 10:56 AM on November 17, 2006
I'm not really supposed to have personal items on my desk, unfortunately. I don't read US Weekly or People or anything like that, and I have brought in or mentioned articles in the New Yorker (I have a subscription) for a few of the non-jerky profs that I thought they would like. And I can definitely see some respect gained when I mention that I'm going to grad school part-time - if there's anything academic people appreciate, it's more and more degrees! Heh. It doesn't really seem to work on the jerky profs, but some of the non-jerky ones have been extra nice lately, so maybe I am doing some things right.
posted by sutel at 10:56 AM on November 17, 2006
Don't dress up, dress down!
In general remain courteous/professional and do the job well, but act like you don't absolutely need the job and don't really care in the final analysis whether you keep it or not because you have other options. Don't do anything extra, no showing up early, no working through lunch. Always have some mysterious activity you're working on which has to be set aside to do whatever else is being asked for at the moment, in other words have your own agenda. It's counter-intuitive but this works in the workplace.
If you really want to put some energy into it, find out what they're reading and do the same and ask for their opinions. Be ready to say thanks for their wonderful insights. They'll decide you're smarter than they thought since apparently you do actually get how smart they are.
posted by scheptech at 10:59 AM on November 17, 2006
In general remain courteous/professional and do the job well, but act like you don't absolutely need the job and don't really care in the final analysis whether you keep it or not because you have other options. Don't do anything extra, no showing up early, no working through lunch. Always have some mysterious activity you're working on which has to be set aside to do whatever else is being asked for at the moment, in other words have your own agenda. It's counter-intuitive but this works in the workplace.
If you really want to put some energy into it, find out what they're reading and do the same and ask for their opinions. Be ready to say thanks for their wonderful insights. They'll decide you're smarter than they thought since apparently you do actually get how smart they are.
posted by scheptech at 10:59 AM on November 17, 2006
This is also my experience at work. But here, in a public K-12 school district, the us vs. them issue is certificated (teachers) vs. classified (everyone one else who is not in management nor a teacher). I am sorry to say that many teachers in our district view classified employees as lower life forms, no matter how professional or qualified we are.
posted by Lynsey at 11:20 AM on November 17, 2006
posted by Lynsey at 11:20 AM on November 17, 2006
You may be threatening these people in some way.
Attractive young women make some men very uncomfortable, particularly when the men in question reach a Certain Age, and especially when she is intelligent. Sneering condescension is often the response of these men (I think of it as Bill Buckley Syndrome). If you were to greet them warmly and with affection whether they deserve it or not, and they certainly do not, it might serve to reduce the fear of sexual humiliation which is at the root of these behaviors in my opinion.
Women faculty members very unfortunately sometimes feel it's necessary to establish a distance between themselves and female staff (read secretaries), and this can lead to repellent conduct of the sort you describe. You can win some of this type over by letting them know you know the obstacles they had to overcome, and that you are on their side.
posted by jamjam at 11:21 AM on November 17, 2006
Attractive young women make some men very uncomfortable, particularly when the men in question reach a Certain Age, and especially when she is intelligent. Sneering condescension is often the response of these men (I think of it as Bill Buckley Syndrome). If you were to greet them warmly and with affection whether they deserve it or not, and they certainly do not, it might serve to reduce the fear of sexual humiliation which is at the root of these behaviors in my opinion.
Women faculty members very unfortunately sometimes feel it's necessary to establish a distance between themselves and female staff (read secretaries), and this can lead to repellent conduct of the sort you describe. You can win some of this type over by letting them know you know the obstacles they had to overcome, and that you are on their side.
posted by jamjam at 11:21 AM on November 17, 2006
Yes, we do have work-studies who get treated like I do. Unfortunately, I sit right next to them at the front desk - a lot of random people walking in think I'm a student too. It is a little hard to separate myself from them, I think, just because I am sitting right there with them (and I am technically their supervisor!)
Wow, that's a pretty difficult situation. Dressing slightly above or nicer than the work study students is probably a good thing.
They don't let me finish my sentences - they start completely talking over me if I have a question or comment. They generally have a look on their face that is somewhat of a sneer. They will oftentimes speak slowly and ask me, "So, do you understand that?" as though I am child who just learned how to put her shoes on by herself.
You say you are short and a young-looking. If any of these manipulative techniques are used, it's best to try and get an upper hand in the conversation. If I had something to say, and someone spoke over the end of my comment, I'd slowly say, in a firm but neutral voice, "Please don't interrupt me." It lets the other person know that you know what they are doing, and you don't appreciate it.
posted by muddgirl at 12:30 PM on November 17, 2006
Wow, that's a pretty difficult situation. Dressing slightly above or nicer than the work study students is probably a good thing.
They don't let me finish my sentences - they start completely talking over me if I have a question or comment. They generally have a look on their face that is somewhat of a sneer. They will oftentimes speak slowly and ask me, "So, do you understand that?" as though I am child who just learned how to put her shoes on by herself.
You say you are short and a young-looking. If any of these manipulative techniques are used, it's best to try and get an upper hand in the conversation. If I had something to say, and someone spoke over the end of my comment, I'd slowly say, in a firm but neutral voice, "Please don't interrupt me." It lets the other person know that you know what they are doing, and you don't appreciate it.
posted by muddgirl at 12:30 PM on November 17, 2006
I have used muddgirl's last technique in cases where I am constantly interrupted, and it is very effective. However, one potential side effect is that if there is a gender component here, there is a good chance you will be perceived as a bitch (rather than assertive). However, if it gets the results that you need in that you are not dismissed or talked over, then who cares what they think? Anyone that calls you or thinks you are a bitch for calling them on some rudeness is probably a doofus anyway.
posted by Cyrie at 1:19 PM on November 17, 2006
posted by Cyrie at 1:19 PM on November 17, 2006
Cyrie is right - using my technique (it works in other situations, too - if they ask, "Do you understand?" in that condescending voice, look them straight in the eye and respond, "I understand you perfectly well, Mr. [NAME]" in a firm and neutral voice), many will think you are stone cold. However, it's better to be thought of as a hard-ass than as a ignoramus.
posted by muddgirl at 1:27 PM on November 17, 2006
posted by muddgirl at 1:27 PM on November 17, 2006
I have had a lot of these problems, too. People often think I'm an undergraduate and in eight years of working there have always been people who behaved badly because I'm short, female, look young, and so on. There are a lot of good suggestions here. I'll add my personal philosophy:
Be completely competent at what you do. Be completely professional. If people are talking over you, you can stop speaking. You don't need to fight them for self-validation. When they are finished, allow a moment of silence. Maintain eye contact and stay calm. When the moment has passed, calmly state your professional response to their request, no matter how rudely the request was made. For example:
"You will have thirty collated and stapled copies of this document by 3 p.m. today."
Then, like others have said, complete the task and let it go. 75% of the department is nice to you, and your supervisors like your work. Focus on that and try not to feel worried by the rest.
posted by halonine at 1:51 PM on November 17, 2006 [2 favorites]
Be completely competent at what you do. Be completely professional. If people are talking over you, you can stop speaking. You don't need to fight them for self-validation. When they are finished, allow a moment of silence. Maintain eye contact and stay calm. When the moment has passed, calmly state your professional response to their request, no matter how rudely the request was made. For example:
"You will have thirty collated and stapled copies of this document by 3 p.m. today."
Then, like others have said, complete the task and let it go. 75% of the department is nice to you, and your supervisors like your work. Focus on that and try not to feel worried by the rest.
posted by halonine at 1:51 PM on November 17, 2006 [2 favorites]
I highly recommend the book Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office. I read it a while back, and in fact just checked it out of the library again. I didn't have time to read all of this thread, but it is possible that some of your unconcious behaviors are sabotaging you...this book points out the behaviors that are resulting in the disrespectful responses. Smiling too much, phrasing comments as questions, tone of voice, dress habits can all come across as childish or weak.
posted by sLevi at 2:01 PM on November 17, 2006
posted by sLevi at 2:01 PM on November 17, 2006
Call them on it! You're not doing anything wrong -- they are.
Every time someone says something snarky, or gets in your personal space, or talks over/down at/harshly to you, get in their face and either (1) ask them if they have a personal problem or issue with you that they need to discuss, or (2) be a bit more suave and stick them in the metaphorical ribs with a rapier-sharp retort.
I've been an academic. Most of my colleagues (male AND female) have Napoleon complexes and were picked on in grammar school. (And yes, this rubs off on administrators as well as faculty. Graduate students, too.) They've also spent their entire lives in academic environments, where sloppy personal habits like nose-picking, infrequent bathing, and dandruff are ignored if you have a (supposedly) big brain. The same goes for sloppy interpersonal habits and a general atrophying of social skills.
You can't change people. You can only wake them up. The first time you snap one of these losers out of their self-deluded narcissism, they will cower before your normality from that day forward.
posted by turducken at 3:34 PM on November 17, 2006
Every time someone says something snarky, or gets in your personal space, or talks over/down at/harshly to you, get in their face and either (1) ask them if they have a personal problem or issue with you that they need to discuss, or (2) be a bit more suave and stick them in the metaphorical ribs with a rapier-sharp retort.
I've been an academic. Most of my colleagues (male AND female) have Napoleon complexes and were picked on in grammar school. (And yes, this rubs off on administrators as well as faculty. Graduate students, too.) They've also spent their entire lives in academic environments, where sloppy personal habits like nose-picking, infrequent bathing, and dandruff are ignored if you have a (supposedly) big brain. The same goes for sloppy interpersonal habits and a general atrophying of social skills.
You can't change people. You can only wake them up. The first time you snap one of these losers out of their self-deluded narcissism, they will cower before your normality from that day forward.
posted by turducken at 3:34 PM on November 17, 2006
... and btw, changing your style of dress, your tone of voice, or your reading materials won't work. That's just the man trying to keep you down!
posted by turducken at 3:36 PM on November 17, 2006
posted by turducken at 3:36 PM on November 17, 2006
That sucks; I'm sorry.
I think dressing up is definitely a good idea.
If you're seated next to the work study students, maybe you can put a sign on your desk saying "Sutel - Administrative Supervisor" or whatever; something to make the point to those who don't get it that you are actually a staff member?
Otherwise, I think everyone else is on the right track: not smiling as much, looking very businesslike and writing down instructions, letting it be known that you're in grad school. And don't let the bastards get you down. A lot of academics are just totally clueless about social norms and about the world of normal jobs; count yourself lucky that you are not going to be one of those.
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:24 PM on November 17, 2006
I think dressing up is definitely a good idea.
If you're seated next to the work study students, maybe you can put a sign on your desk saying "Sutel - Administrative Supervisor" or whatever; something to make the point to those who don't get it that you are actually a staff member?
Otherwise, I think everyone else is on the right track: not smiling as much, looking very businesslike and writing down instructions, letting it be known that you're in grad school. And don't let the bastards get you down. A lot of academics are just totally clueless about social norms and about the world of normal jobs; count yourself lucky that you are not going to be one of those.
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:24 PM on November 17, 2006
This used to happen to me a lot when I was about your age - 10 yrs and 2 kids ago. Getting older and heavier actually helps the situation a lot, though it is not the solution I would have chosen. Now people often assume I have more authority and knowledge than I actually do.
Stating your credentials helps - when I did tech support I got a very different response by stating my department and job title instead of just saying "hello" on the phone. Come up with some credentials you can state, even if it's X number of years of experience doing such-and-so, instead of a formal degree.
Also, for me the fact that I felt defensive going into the interaction made it worse - bc of years of this sort of patronization, I went in trying to prove that I wasn't stupid -- this was read as competitive by some people and actually created the behavior in them I was trying to avoid.
Have your list of credentials in your head before going in, so that when somebody says "do you understand?" you can calmly reply "yes because I've worked on this, this and that project." They may really honestly not know.
posted by selfmedicating at 4:35 PM on November 17, 2006
Stating your credentials helps - when I did tech support I got a very different response by stating my department and job title instead of just saying "hello" on the phone. Come up with some credentials you can state, even if it's X number of years of experience doing such-and-so, instead of a formal degree.
Also, for me the fact that I felt defensive going into the interaction made it worse - bc of years of this sort of patronization, I went in trying to prove that I wasn't stupid -- this was read as competitive by some people and actually created the behavior in them I was trying to avoid.
Have your list of credentials in your head before going in, so that when somebody says "do you understand?" you can calmly reply "yes because I've worked on this, this and that project." They may really honestly not know.
posted by selfmedicating at 4:35 PM on November 17, 2006
Oh, god. Do I feel you in this situation.
I worked in what sounds like an identical position in a university. I was never able to get over that feeling of being looked down upon, of being treated as though ordering office supplies and typing up documents was all I was capable of in life. It was part of why I grew to hate the job within a year. What's even worse is noting that men in parallell positions in the institution were *not* treated with this sort of condescension. It seemed to be assumed that *they* had other, brighter prospects on the horizon.
I was lucky -- after two years, a position came up in another (administrative rather than academic) department that didn't require me to serve faculty anymore. It was a promotion, and I now have a lot more autonomy. Best of all I no longer have to deal so much with faculty (or students.) In fact, occasionally, faculty have to come with me to request the use of particular facilities, and thereby, have to be a lot more respectful to me. I've been able to level out my status with these people a little bit.
You have an end date in mind, which is very very helpful in unhappy situations. It's the feeling that you will be sitting at that desk for the rest of your life that really takes you down. I probably don't have much useful advice except to stick it out and not feel you have to prove yourself to anyone. I kind of enjoy that my coworkers know so little about the true me -- it helps me separate my work and home life. If they only knew half the shit I'm thinking about and doing in my *real* life I think they'd be surprised... and I like it that way.
posted by loiseau at 5:06 PM on November 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
I worked in what sounds like an identical position in a university. I was never able to get over that feeling of being looked down upon, of being treated as though ordering office supplies and typing up documents was all I was capable of in life. It was part of why I grew to hate the job within a year. What's even worse is noting that men in parallell positions in the institution were *not* treated with this sort of condescension. It seemed to be assumed that *they* had other, brighter prospects on the horizon.
I was lucky -- after two years, a position came up in another (administrative rather than academic) department that didn't require me to serve faculty anymore. It was a promotion, and I now have a lot more autonomy. Best of all I no longer have to deal so much with faculty (or students.) In fact, occasionally, faculty have to come with me to request the use of particular facilities, and thereby, have to be a lot more respectful to me. I've been able to level out my status with these people a little bit.
You have an end date in mind, which is very very helpful in unhappy situations. It's the feeling that you will be sitting at that desk for the rest of your life that really takes you down. I probably don't have much useful advice except to stick it out and not feel you have to prove yourself to anyone. I kind of enjoy that my coworkers know so little about the true me -- it helps me separate my work and home life. If they only knew half the shit I'm thinking about and doing in my *real* life I think they'd be surprised... and I like it that way.
posted by loiseau at 5:06 PM on November 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
I have a couple of suggestions. One, try to end your sentences without an inflection. I'm working on this myself--it makes one sound tentative and valley-girlish.
The second thing I can recommend is toning down your youth and/or looks. It sucks to do this, but it might help. For example, you can clip your hair back at the nape of your neck.
Good luck! It sucks that sometimes getting respect requires a woman to act more like a man.
posted by mintchip at 6:12 PM on November 17, 2006
The second thing I can recommend is toning down your youth and/or looks. It sucks to do this, but it might help. For example, you can clip your hair back at the nape of your neck.
Good luck! It sucks that sometimes getting respect requires a woman to act more like a man.
posted by mintchip at 6:12 PM on November 17, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Do you habitually either smile (could be seen as nervous or flighty) or frown (could be seen as confused) or stare into space or something? Maybe you're just doing something unconsciously with your face that's making you look like you're not tracking, or you're subordinate? (I have a classmate who gets the most ridiculously stupid vapid look on her face every time anyone asks her a question, and while she can normally answer it, the fleeting look of utter stupidity generally annoys me to the point of writing her off.)
With IT guys who've treated me like this in the past, I've headed it off by phrasing questions in such a way as to make it look like I do have a clue. So, rather than "This is not working, can you help?" I'd say something like, "This is not working, I've tried X, Y, and Z, do you think it could be A or B?"
I suspect it's more of an age thing, height thing, gender thing, admin thing, and professor thing, though.
posted by occhiblu at 9:52 AM on November 17, 2006