relationship advice
July 10, 2006 5:32 AM Subscribe
Should I get back together with my ex-fiance or try it out with this new man?
I am in my early 40s, divorced, with one college-age student from the previous marriage.
I have been dating/engaged to "John" for three years. John is in his mid-50s. John and I have broken up approximately three or four times over the course of this relationship, for the most part due to his alcoholism, his 15-16-17 year old daughter who had issues with drugs (and probation and dropping out of school), and his issues with commitment. The last time John and I broke up it was because, after proposing, he again admitted to me that he was not sure if he could commit.
I started dating "Matt" right when John and I broke up. Matt treats me exactly like I have always wanted to be treated but he has some problems - he is about the same age as John but he has never been married and he is not positive that he wants to be; he did not finish college and does not enjoy or like reading. Also, he attends church regularly and is a bit more conservative than I would like.
Meanwhile, John stopped drinking, his daughter is moving out, and he told me that he and I are meant to be and he is ready to get married and he feels stupid about how he behaved.
Matt and I have been dating for three months. He treats me like a princess, he is delighted to see me, he and I have a lot of fun together. I really like him. However, I still love John, as well.
I feel like I could be making a huge mistake with either of them. Matt might not work out at all and John might go back to his pre-reformed self ways.
Should I forget about John and try to make things work with Matt? Or forget about Matt and try to make things work out with John?
I am in my early 40s, divorced, with one college-age student from the previous marriage.
I have been dating/engaged to "John" for three years. John is in his mid-50s. John and I have broken up approximately three or four times over the course of this relationship, for the most part due to his alcoholism, his 15-16-17 year old daughter who had issues with drugs (and probation and dropping out of school), and his issues with commitment. The last time John and I broke up it was because, after proposing, he again admitted to me that he was not sure if he could commit.
I started dating "Matt" right when John and I broke up. Matt treats me exactly like I have always wanted to be treated but he has some problems - he is about the same age as John but he has never been married and he is not positive that he wants to be; he did not finish college and does not enjoy or like reading. Also, he attends church regularly and is a bit more conservative than I would like.
Meanwhile, John stopped drinking, his daughter is moving out, and he told me that he and I are meant to be and he is ready to get married and he feels stupid about how he behaved.
Matt and I have been dating for three months. He treats me like a princess, he is delighted to see me, he and I have a lot of fun together. I really like him. However, I still love John, as well.
I feel like I could be making a huge mistake with either of them. Matt might not work out at all and John might go back to his pre-reformed self ways.
Should I forget about John and try to make things work with Matt? Or forget about Matt and try to make things work out with John?
Some questions to ponder over. You say that Matt treats you like a princess, did John treat you this way? You make a point of saying that Matt does not enjoy reading and that he did not finish college. Do you resent this aspect to his personality?
It seems from your post that one thing you do want is commitment from a man. John appears to offer more than Matt, but he (John) also appears to have the potential to relapse or have on going problems with his own drinking and daughter.
The opinion that matters most is your own, so take my suggestion as just that, a suggestion. If you're enjoying your time with Matt and don't feel the need to tie the knot with a man in the immediate future, then stay with Matt. As long as Matt's conservative nature does not stop you from enjoying your life the way you wish to live it, then I don't think its a bad thing.
And, perhaps, if you have doubts about both men, then maybe rather than choosing between Matt and John, choose neither?
posted by Atreides at 5:52 AM on July 10, 2006
It seems from your post that one thing you do want is commitment from a man. John appears to offer more than Matt, but he (John) also appears to have the potential to relapse or have on going problems with his own drinking and daughter.
The opinion that matters most is your own, so take my suggestion as just that, a suggestion. If you're enjoying your time with Matt and don't feel the need to tie the knot with a man in the immediate future, then stay with Matt. As long as Matt's conservative nature does not stop you from enjoying your life the way you wish to live it, then I don't think its a bad thing.
And, perhaps, if you have doubts about both men, then maybe rather than choosing between Matt and John, choose neither?
posted by Atreides at 5:52 AM on July 10, 2006
Neither will work indefinetely. Sorry.
posted by rinkjustice at 5:56 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by rinkjustice at 5:56 AM on July 10, 2006
None of the above.
John may very well backslide the first time his daughter comes running and he doesn't sound very sure of what he wants.
It doesn't sound like you have much in common with Matt which will become more of an issue as time goes on.
Move on and find someone else who is a better fit and makes you happy. There's no reason to settle for someone who will ultimately lead to another divorce.
posted by bim at 5:58 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
John may very well backslide the first time his daughter comes running and he doesn't sound very sure of what he wants.
It doesn't sound like you have much in common with Matt which will become more of an issue as time goes on.
Move on and find someone else who is a better fit and makes you happy. There's no reason to settle for someone who will ultimately lead to another divorce.
posted by bim at 5:58 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Another vote for "neither". I share your misgivings about people who are conservative and don't read, and this will likely get a lot stickier as you get past the 'honeymoon phase'. The other relationship sounds destructive. Can you hold out for someone better?
posted by rolypolyman at 6:10 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by rolypolyman at 6:10 AM on July 10, 2006
... actually not exactly "destructive", but it was, and from my own experience people just about always fall back into their old ways. If there's been no epiphany or life-changing event, then I'd expect things to go back to status quo with John.
posted by rolypolyman at 6:13 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by rolypolyman at 6:13 AM on July 10, 2006
I'm on 'neither' as well.
Leopards don't, except in very rare cases, change their spots. We all want to believe that the leopard of our affections is definitely that one spot-changer--but chances are, sie isn't. So that's the first one taken care of.
As for the second, there are two major areas you have nothing in common, areas that appear to be important to you: religion and education.
Find someone else. I know it's easy for me to say that so blithely, but I think--as does everyone else here, it would seem--it's your best bet.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:20 AM on July 10, 2006 [2 favorites]
Leopards don't, except in very rare cases, change their spots. We all want to believe that the leopard of our affections is definitely that one spot-changer--but chances are, sie isn't. So that's the first one taken care of.
As for the second, there are two major areas you have nothing in common, areas that appear to be important to you: religion and education.
Find someone else. I know it's easy for me to say that so blithely, but I think--as does everyone else here, it would seem--it's your best bet.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:20 AM on July 10, 2006 [2 favorites]
I'm nthing neither. John isn't going to cut his daughter loose just because she moved out (for now). If she's that major of a problem, the issue isn't going to go away anytime soon. Coming between someone and his kid (however rotten she might be) is bad news, unfortunately, and he might grow to resent you for it. As for Matt, you disagree on two really fundamental issues: religion and marriage. Not a good sign that early in the relationship.
If what you want is a long-term committment, neither of these guys sounds like your man.
posted by timetoevolve at 6:40 AM on July 10, 2006
If what you want is a long-term committment, neither of these guys sounds like your man.
posted by timetoevolve at 6:40 AM on July 10, 2006
You deserve someone who doesn't annoy you or treat you badly. Move on from both these losers.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 6:47 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by croutonsupafreak at 6:47 AM on July 10, 2006
I vote 'neither'. You want to get married, so it would make sense to date men who state that sooner or later, they want to get married.
posted by agropyron at 6:51 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by agropyron at 6:51 AM on July 10, 2006
Leopards do change, but what concerns me more about John is the pattern you two have been involved in than his discreet issues. I wonder if something else would come up now that he's dealt the with proximate obstacles to intimacy. In any case, he doesn't sound like the man for you right now.
Matt sounds like a fine guy, but maybe not right for you either. Although you haven't been completely explicit about what it is that you want in the long term it seems like it's someone who's committed to you (marriage ?) with whom you are a good fit. Matt doesn't exactly sound like that guy.
Maybe give yourself some time. You can clearly attract people who want to be with you, why not trust that and be alone for a little while. Triangular relationships can be very hard to make decisions in and during.
posted by OmieWise at 6:56 AM on July 10, 2006
Matt sounds like a fine guy, but maybe not right for you either. Although you haven't been completely explicit about what it is that you want in the long term it seems like it's someone who's committed to you (marriage ?) with whom you are a good fit. Matt doesn't exactly sound like that guy.
Maybe give yourself some time. You can clearly attract people who want to be with you, why not trust that and be alone for a little while. Triangular relationships can be very hard to make decisions in and during.
posted by OmieWise at 6:56 AM on July 10, 2006
I don't think either of them sound like they're good for you. The ex-fiance doesn't treat you right and you just sound incompatible with the boyfriend.
Staying with either of these men smacks of 'settling', and you sound too smart to do that.
posted by Lucie at 7:33 AM on July 10, 2006
Staying with either of these men smacks of 'settling', and you sound too smart to do that.
posted by Lucie at 7:33 AM on July 10, 2006
Another vote for neither, in case you're still on the fence.
You and Matt won't work. You've got fundamental differences that are, IMO, impossible to work around. You haven't addressed children, which invariably turn what seem like minor differences into a huge deal. Do you want children? Does he? How religious will their upbringing be?
I'm going to go against the grain and say you may want to give John a shot. I've seen my fair share of drug/alcohol-related bad relationships, but I think there's some room for you to give him an ultimatum: stay clean and straight, and uninvolved with his daughter (beyond getting her help) for 6 months, during which time you don't see him. If he can keep his shit together for that long, consider re-introducing yourself into his life.
posted by mkultra at 7:49 AM on July 10, 2006
You and Matt won't work. You've got fundamental differences that are, IMO, impossible to work around. You haven't addressed children, which invariably turn what seem like minor differences into a huge deal. Do you want children? Does he? How religious will their upbringing be?
I'm going to go against the grain and say you may want to give John a shot. I've seen my fair share of drug/alcohol-related bad relationships, but I think there's some room for you to give him an ultimatum: stay clean and straight, and uninvolved with his daughter (beyond getting her help) for 6 months, during which time you don't see him. If he can keep his shit together for that long, consider re-introducing yourself into his life.
posted by mkultra at 7:49 AM on July 10, 2006
Good god run from John.
Run run run run run run run.
Take it from me, I am lucky to be alive.
Date Matt, have fun, take it slow, feel good and be good to him.
Be DONE with the other man. The rehabilitated situation is a heavy cross, you are never ever gonna trust him, and he probably doesn't deserve it.
posted by mad_little_monkey at 7:51 AM on July 10, 2006
Run run run run run run run.
Take it from me, I am lucky to be alive.
Date Matt, have fun, take it slow, feel good and be good to him.
Be DONE with the other man. The rehabilitated situation is a heavy cross, you are never ever gonna trust him, and he probably doesn't deserve it.
posted by mad_little_monkey at 7:51 AM on July 10, 2006
If marriage is what you want and John insists that he loves you and wants to get married, and you know that you love him... well that about covers it. Logically, (particularly in terms of risk/reward and considering you don't like Matt that much), it makes sense to dump Matt immediately and give John another chance. Sure it sucks for Matt but that's life.
Just be honest enough with yourself to admit now that marriage to John is going to be extremely difficult. The guy has a history of substance abuse, a dysfunctional daughter (soon to be your step-daughter), and he has significant commitment/intimacy problems. Is your love for John really strong enough to overcome these problems? Is being with him all that matters even if there's going to be lots of rough spots? As they say, you have to ask yourself not if but how much you love John.
But yeah, go for John. Men who love you and whom you love aren't exactly hanging from trees.
posted by nixerman at 7:57 AM on July 10, 2006
Just be honest enough with yourself to admit now that marriage to John is going to be extremely difficult. The guy has a history of substance abuse, a dysfunctional daughter (soon to be your step-daughter), and he has significant commitment/intimacy problems. Is your love for John really strong enough to overcome these problems? Is being with him all that matters even if there's going to be lots of rough spots? As they say, you have to ask yourself not if but how much you love John.
But yeah, go for John. Men who love you and whom you love aren't exactly hanging from trees.
posted by nixerman at 7:57 AM on July 10, 2006
Matt sounds like a classic rebound guy. Being with him has apparently given you perspective on aspects of your relationship with John were lacking. You'd best use that perspective in the hunt for a man who both shares your values and treats you well.
posted by Sara Anne at 9:54 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Sara Anne at 9:54 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Neither. But if I were forced to pick, I'd say try it out with Matt. John has proved multiple times that he's not an ideal partner, and at least with Matt, you'd have some fun for a while, even if he's not husband material (on preview, what Sara Anne says). Not to mention you'd have a lot less drama with Matt. But if marriage is your end goal, then neither.
IMHO, couples that break up 3-4 times over three years don't seem to have a good chance at long-term marital success. Also, by saying that Matt treats you how you want to be treated, it makes me think that John is clearly NOT treating you the way you should be treated.
Rollercoasters are for amusement parks, not marriages. Get rid of John, sorry.
posted by ml98tu at 9:58 AM on July 10, 2006
IMHO, couples that break up 3-4 times over three years don't seem to have a good chance at long-term marital success. Also, by saying that Matt treats you how you want to be treated, it makes me think that John is clearly NOT treating you the way you should be treated.
Rollercoasters are for amusement parks, not marriages. Get rid of John, sorry.
posted by ml98tu at 9:58 AM on July 10, 2006
Listen to Nixerman. He's smart.
posted by klangklangston at 10:10 AM on July 10, 2006
posted by klangklangston at 10:10 AM on July 10, 2006
You don't have to be with anyone. So why even consider being with an alcoholic (former or not) with whom you've split up three or four times and who will always be afraid of commitment? He's in his mid-fifties; it's not like he actually changed - he just said he did.
Neither one sounds great - do you want to just settle for someone?
But I am (relatively) young and picky and a pessimist, so.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:46 AM on July 10, 2006
Neither one sounds great - do you want to just settle for someone?
But I am (relatively) young and picky and a pessimist, so.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 10:46 AM on July 10, 2006
I'm with nixerman. Here's how I'd do it: Politely get Matt out of the way, he's clouding the issue. You don't love him and never will, no matter how well he treats you.
Tell John the truth: you met someone who had many of the qualities you are seeking, including ones John lacks. Tell him you are not in love with this other person (be a little mysterious -- give as little info as possible, it's your business) but the experience really opened your eyes -- you can't possibly go back to the old you/John show. Tell John you still love him and appreciate his perception of how he screwed up in the past BUT you are not sure a leopard/spots etc.
Firmly and with no negotiating, no waffling, no nothing, tell him you need six months to really see and believe the changes he claims he's made and then you will decide. Six months, but only one phone call a week, one or two restaurant dinners a month, no drinking, no sex -- just direct and authentic talking about how things are going with both of you. During the get-togethers, be observant, ask probing questions, watch for old patterns, and lnever let lhim forget that you've smartened up and are seriously evaluating whether you can make it as a couple. Then if all's well, you get engaged for another six months to see if the dynamic changes once he's 'caught' you.
My hunch is that John ultimately won't make the grade but more importantly, you will have given yourself the max headroom to get it figured out. And if you do like what you see, well, yeah, John's your guy. It bears repeating, guys who love you and whom you love -- at any age -- are definitely not hanging from trees.
posted by thinkpiece at 11:04 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Tell John the truth: you met someone who had many of the qualities you are seeking, including ones John lacks. Tell him you are not in love with this other person (be a little mysterious -- give as little info as possible, it's your business) but the experience really opened your eyes -- you can't possibly go back to the old you/John show. Tell John you still love him and appreciate his perception of how he screwed up in the past BUT you are not sure a leopard/spots etc.
Firmly and with no negotiating, no waffling, no nothing, tell him you need six months to really see and believe the changes he claims he's made and then you will decide. Six months, but only one phone call a week, one or two restaurant dinners a month, no drinking, no sex -- just direct and authentic talking about how things are going with both of you. During the get-togethers, be observant, ask probing questions, watch for old patterns, and lnever let lhim forget that you've smartened up and are seriously evaluating whether you can make it as a couple. Then if all's well, you get engaged for another six months to see if the dynamic changes once he's 'caught' you.
My hunch is that John ultimately won't make the grade but more importantly, you will have given yourself the max headroom to get it figured out. And if you do like what you see, well, yeah, John's your guy. It bears repeating, guys who love you and whom you love -- at any age -- are definitely not hanging from trees.
posted by thinkpiece at 11:04 AM on July 10, 2006 [1 favorite]
Gotta go against nixerman as well. Just because someone loves you doesn't mean they are right for you and vice versa. Date Matt and look for someone with whom you have more in common AND treats you well. You deserve to be picky.
posted by CwgrlUp at 2:50 PM on July 10, 2006
posted by CwgrlUp at 2:50 PM on July 10, 2006
I don't think I know enough to tell you what to do, indeed no one but you knows that question. What I can tell you is this: go with your gut. That means that you know the answer to your question already. Its also important to realize that whatever the choice you make you will be fine and there will be others if it doesn't work out. Don't overthink it.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2006
posted by Ironmouth at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
Give it a shot with Matt, you've already given John more than a few.
posted by mhuckaba at 5:51 AM on July 10, 2006