I will remember you. Will you remember me?
February 20, 2025 10:34 AM Subscribe
How have you experienced being close with someone who has a really bad memory? Or, if you're a person who has such a memory, what is your internal experience of building friendships/relationships?
I've been building a friendship with someone who I really like and in some ways have great potential for closeness with. We've known each other for a year and change, and over that time have had ample regular, everyday-flavor conversation and deeper talks as well. Over the course of time, it has happened on multiple occasions that they've totally forgotten things about me that are pretty basic facts and that we've discussed more than once (I won't list them out here, but one example of this is what I do for a living, even in a ballpark sense), cumulatively putting us in certified Bad Memory territory.
Sometimes this doesn't really bother me, but other times the truth is that it stings. I want to be remembered, and there is a part of me that holds an emotional story that remembering equals caring. I tend to function that way and it's also a specific way I love my friends--I'm the friend who will text you to wish you luck about x thing or ask how it went because I either remember it or specifically set a reminder to check in about it--so I recognize that I definitely have a bias. I don't have an expectation that my people will always remember everything about me, and there are plenty of details I don't remember either, but a sense of knowing and being known is absolutely what I am after.
In general I am pretty good at Not Taking Things Personally. I know, intellectually, that not everybody's memory functions the same way and that even chronic forgetting doesn't necessarily carry the meaning 'I don't care.' I have other evidence of my friend's interest in the friendship and have a baseline trust in that. I know, specifically, that their memory stuff is largely tied to the ongoing cognitive and emotional impacts of trauma.
What I'm having a hard time with, even as I try to separate out all of the above, is what it looks like to build closeness with someone when memory is unreliable. If I use the metaphor of spending time together being building up a relationship brick by brick, it's like I return to the structure expecting to see how it's grown only to find that someone has come and removed several of the bricks I thought were there. As we get more personal, I find myself hesitating to share certain things because the sharing means something to me and I guess I have a hard time trusting that they can hold something as part of my story if it could just fall out of their mind as soon as we part ways. I don't know if I'm zen enough to exist in the eternal present, relationally speaking.
So:
I'm interested in hearing from people with friends or partners who, for whatever reason, have persistent memory issues or similar cognitive issues. What has your experience of building a relationship with these shifting sands/unexpected holes been? How do you feel about/within this kind of closeness?
If you are a person who tends to be the forgetter, what is this like from your end? In my friend's case this is, understandably, a sore spot so it's not a place I want to go digging, but I'm curious about the internal experience of how it feels to build up a picture of someone over time when key details may fall away. Do you feel like you know someone any less well for the forgetting?
(I'll take existential musing on what it means to know someone, too; all good food for thought.)
I've been building a friendship with someone who I really like and in some ways have great potential for closeness with. We've known each other for a year and change, and over that time have had ample regular, everyday-flavor conversation and deeper talks as well. Over the course of time, it has happened on multiple occasions that they've totally forgotten things about me that are pretty basic facts and that we've discussed more than once (I won't list them out here, but one example of this is what I do for a living, even in a ballpark sense), cumulatively putting us in certified Bad Memory territory.
Sometimes this doesn't really bother me, but other times the truth is that it stings. I want to be remembered, and there is a part of me that holds an emotional story that remembering equals caring. I tend to function that way and it's also a specific way I love my friends--I'm the friend who will text you to wish you luck about x thing or ask how it went because I either remember it or specifically set a reminder to check in about it--so I recognize that I definitely have a bias. I don't have an expectation that my people will always remember everything about me, and there are plenty of details I don't remember either, but a sense of knowing and being known is absolutely what I am after.
In general I am pretty good at Not Taking Things Personally. I know, intellectually, that not everybody's memory functions the same way and that even chronic forgetting doesn't necessarily carry the meaning 'I don't care.' I have other evidence of my friend's interest in the friendship and have a baseline trust in that. I know, specifically, that their memory stuff is largely tied to the ongoing cognitive and emotional impacts of trauma.
What I'm having a hard time with, even as I try to separate out all of the above, is what it looks like to build closeness with someone when memory is unreliable. If I use the metaphor of spending time together being building up a relationship brick by brick, it's like I return to the structure expecting to see how it's grown only to find that someone has come and removed several of the bricks I thought were there. As we get more personal, I find myself hesitating to share certain things because the sharing means something to me and I guess I have a hard time trusting that they can hold something as part of my story if it could just fall out of their mind as soon as we part ways. I don't know if I'm zen enough to exist in the eternal present, relationally speaking.
So:
I'm interested in hearing from people with friends or partners who, for whatever reason, have persistent memory issues or similar cognitive issues. What has your experience of building a relationship with these shifting sands/unexpected holes been? How do you feel about/within this kind of closeness?
If you are a person who tends to be the forgetter, what is this like from your end? In my friend's case this is, understandably, a sore spot so it's not a place I want to go digging, but I'm curious about the internal experience of how it feels to build up a picture of someone over time when key details may fall away. Do you feel like you know someone any less well for the forgetting?
(I'll take existential musing on what it means to know someone, too; all good food for thought.)
I have a bad memory and I don’t know why. It seems to be getting worse as I enter perimenopause too. I have a lot of shame around it. My coping mechanisms are: don’t ask any questions that would reveal that I don’t remember something that was likely shared in the past. Or preface a question with, “I’m sure you’ve told me this before, but…”. I’ve considered going home after hanging out with someone new and writing down everything that I can recall that they’ve told me (seeing it helps me remember better than hearing things), but I haven’t done that yet. One thing is for sure, it has nothing to do with my interest level in my friend or their life. If I could be better at remembering I definitely would be.
posted by sugarbomb at 11:09 AM on February 20 [10 favorites]
posted by sugarbomb at 11:09 AM on February 20 [10 favorites]
One of my closest friends is just bad at remembering certain small details, and since I'm preternaturally good at remembering certain small details, the mismatch can sometimes be jarring.
However, this friend is extremely generous, thoughtful, and supportive in the way that she is, and particularly in ways that I'm not, and I'm sure that's weird for her sometimes too.
We do frequently talk about how different we are in so many ways. We don't like the same things or have similar personalities or even communication styles. We just have the same fundamental values and love to see each other be happy. Rather than let our differences come between us, a common refrain is how lucky we are to have found each other as friends, since it could so easily never have happened.
Hopefully and perhaps you can try to frame your relationship with your friend like that. What are they good at that you personally may value less than recalling details, and can you see that not only as the way they show their care for you, but as a way that you're lucky to have an even larger diversity of care language in your relationships.
posted by phunniemee at 11:13 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
However, this friend is extremely generous, thoughtful, and supportive in the way that she is, and particularly in ways that I'm not, and I'm sure that's weird for her sometimes too.
We do frequently talk about how different we are in so many ways. We don't like the same things or have similar personalities or even communication styles. We just have the same fundamental values and love to see each other be happy. Rather than let our differences come between us, a common refrain is how lucky we are to have found each other as friends, since it could so easily never have happened.
Hopefully and perhaps you can try to frame your relationship with your friend like that. What are they good at that you personally may value less than recalling details, and can you see that not only as the way they show their care for you, but as a way that you're lucky to have an even larger diversity of care language in your relationships.
posted by phunniemee at 11:13 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
This is such a great question. I am actually dissociative, diagnosed, and as such my memory works differently - sometimes with great clarity and sometimes completely whack, and my friends' experience of it (and me/us) is also inconsistent, like some of us remember different things than others (and some friends know why and some do not.)
My pragmatic answer is that sometimes this means that I have a bad friendship match. This may end up describing your friendship with this person and if that's true, that's okay. Sometimes what you need from a friendship isn't what the other person can give and that's no one's fault really.
Having said that, here is what happens with me.
1. I by nature scan for threats first, unusual patterns second, and everything else third. So I am actually really really good at picking up if a friend is off and asking them about their marriage just after their spouse cheated, or noticing in Feb 2020 that disinfectant wipes were disappearing off shelves faster than usual and picking up enough to drop off at everyone's houses later. However, I don't always pick up in the moment something like what you're wearing or (I know this is weird) even your hair colour. It depends on how stressed out I am.
2. Social nuances are things I didn't pick up naturally at the right stage of life (raised by wolves) and it's kind of like always having an accent in a second tongue. So the things described above like putting friends' holidays on my calendar or making a note about favourite foods are things that took me decades to kind of pick up on and start to track. I'm better now but was terrible in the past.
3. I completely do want to care about what matters to my friend...but natively, I bond with people through shared values, their insights about their life and mine and the world, and the stuff we do or experience together.
Like...I don't care what you do in your job. I care about what you experience in your job, because I care about you. So like, if you shared a work problem with me, I'd remember your job forever. But if it was just like "oh yeah, I'm an accountant at X firm" I might not.
4. My memory doesn't exactly work like everyone else's, and I wonder if your friend has something like that going on. I can access a lot of detailed memories, but not always at the right time (it's kind of like shared storage and sometimes I have to get the storage room map from someone else.) I won't get into extreme examples largely from the past, but in the present, sometimes it takes me like 10-15 minutes to remember things that most people would remember right away, like the last time I saw you kind of thing, especially if we're out of context.
It's weird. I love running into my friends, but I do live in fear of those moments, because if I know I'm on my way to meet you for lunch, I can get all the "you files" up in front of me. But if I run into you on the street, sometimes I'm going to be a bit weirdly uninformed about specifics. This is just how it is with me and it's a pain. I am so much better but it's an issue.
5. My visual memory is not good, used to be non-existent, and my auditory memory is pretty good but not great - together (visual + audio) they are not so bad. Does your friend remember things from text better? Or worse?
posted by warriorqueen at 12:09 PM on February 20 [17 favorites]
My pragmatic answer is that sometimes this means that I have a bad friendship match. This may end up describing your friendship with this person and if that's true, that's okay. Sometimes what you need from a friendship isn't what the other person can give and that's no one's fault really.
Having said that, here is what happens with me.
1. I by nature scan for threats first, unusual patterns second, and everything else third. So I am actually really really good at picking up if a friend is off and asking them about their marriage just after their spouse cheated, or noticing in Feb 2020 that disinfectant wipes were disappearing off shelves faster than usual and picking up enough to drop off at everyone's houses later. However, I don't always pick up in the moment something like what you're wearing or (I know this is weird) even your hair colour. It depends on how stressed out I am.
2. Social nuances are things I didn't pick up naturally at the right stage of life (raised by wolves) and it's kind of like always having an accent in a second tongue. So the things described above like putting friends' holidays on my calendar or making a note about favourite foods are things that took me decades to kind of pick up on and start to track. I'm better now but was terrible in the past.
3. I completely do want to care about what matters to my friend...but natively, I bond with people through shared values, their insights about their life and mine and the world, and the stuff we do or experience together.
Like...I don't care what you do in your job. I care about what you experience in your job, because I care about you. So like, if you shared a work problem with me, I'd remember your job forever. But if it was just like "oh yeah, I'm an accountant at X firm" I might not.
4. My memory doesn't exactly work like everyone else's, and I wonder if your friend has something like that going on. I can access a lot of detailed memories, but not always at the right time (it's kind of like shared storage and sometimes I have to get the storage room map from someone else.) I won't get into extreme examples largely from the past, but in the present, sometimes it takes me like 10-15 minutes to remember things that most people would remember right away, like the last time I saw you kind of thing, especially if we're out of context.
It's weird. I love running into my friends, but I do live in fear of those moments, because if I know I'm on my way to meet you for lunch, I can get all the "you files" up in front of me. But if I run into you on the street, sometimes I'm going to be a bit weirdly uninformed about specifics. This is just how it is with me and it's a pain. I am so much better but it's an issue.
5. My visual memory is not good, used to be non-existent, and my auditory memory is pretty good but not great - together (visual + audio) they are not so bad. Does your friend remember things from text better? Or worse?
posted by warriorqueen at 12:09 PM on February 20 [17 favorites]
The two people I’ve known socially like this were somewhat self-absorbed people and that did affect our friendship eventually. It really sounds like that’s not where you are, though.
I realized a few years ago that neither of my parents really remembered my childhood. My own autobiographical memory isn’t great and so ultimately it means nobody remembers, which is kinda weird. With my mom I didn’t take offense — aging has not been easy for her. I just try to provide more context with our conversations as a sort of prosthetic. Our relationship is actually pretty solid right now. But with my dad it was hard not to take offense because other facts on the ground made it pretty clear that he just didn’t think I was his job and that’s why he didn’t remember — it wasn’t important.
A lot depends on the reason, for me. It sounds like you have other reasons to believe your friend loves you. Lean on that, and provide prosthetics where you can.
posted by eirias at 12:14 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I realized a few years ago that neither of my parents really remembered my childhood. My own autobiographical memory isn’t great and so ultimately it means nobody remembers, which is kinda weird. With my mom I didn’t take offense — aging has not been easy for her. I just try to provide more context with our conversations as a sort of prosthetic. Our relationship is actually pretty solid right now. But with my dad it was hard not to take offense because other facts on the ground made it pretty clear that he just didn’t think I was his job and that’s why he didn’t remember — it wasn’t important.
A lot depends on the reason, for me. It sounds like you have other reasons to believe your friend loves you. Lean on that, and provide prosthetics where you can.
posted by eirias at 12:14 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I am a friend that cannot remember things, even important and basic things. It is not personal, it does not mean I don't love and cherish (or depending on the depth of friendship, at least really like) the person.
I don't know what my problem is (though I do have one suspicion) but I do NOT form memories like other people. I have been like this as long as I remember, I don't have very many memories of my own childhood either, even things that other people who were around for it really think I would remember. My 2 lifelong best friends will be like "Remember when we...." and it's some crazy incredibly memorable thing that you cannot believe someone who went through it - sober, even - would not remember. To me, they might as well be telling me something from someone else's life.
Once I was at a party and someone came up to me enthusiastically said my name, how are you doing, it's been so long. We talked for a minute and after he walked away I said to a friend I was there with "I literally have never seen that person in my life." Turns out we had dated, for a few months! I did not even remember dating them.
From my end, it is honestly horrible. It makes me feel like a terrible friend even when I am really showing up in a friendship. It makes me sad that I don't have memories of a life well lived, even though I can tell you so much detail about so many completely irrelevant things. It makes it sometimes hard to feel close to people, because by not remembering all those details of our long talks ... well that brings you closer doesn't it? I do get the sensation of closeness, but I don't think it is the same. It's like the people who can't visualize an apple in their minds, just the idea of an apple. I may have a friend who has an ongoing work saga that we talk about every single week and for the life of me, I remember there is a saga, but I cannot remember what happened sometimes last week, or sometimes I might remember last week but not the beginning of the story. I perpetually feel like a BAD person, and I judge myself heavily for it.
If you meet me, I will have forgotten your name before you are even done saying it even when I make a particular effort to repeat it ("Hi Sam, it's nice to meet you") and look at you thinking "Sam, Sam... this is Sam, from weightlifting class". This is really bad for me professionally, I cannot market myself or network. And it does make it hard to make new friends, or to get those friendly-ish relationships with parents of my kid's friends.
For awhile, I was making notes on my notes app about people and their lives. About new neighbors, or new friends, their dog's and kids' names, what they did, various things. I stopped doing that, maybe I should start again.
It must be painful when a friend doesn't remember these things, I can only imagine. I am sure I am sometimes causing people that pain, and that sometimes when I pretend I remember they probably can tell that I don't and think it means I don't care. I DO care about my friends' details, their inner workings, their favorite foods, all the little things that make them them. It is not personal.
posted by fennario at 12:15 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
I don't know what my problem is (though I do have one suspicion) but I do NOT form memories like other people. I have been like this as long as I remember, I don't have very many memories of my own childhood either, even things that other people who were around for it really think I would remember. My 2 lifelong best friends will be like "Remember when we...." and it's some crazy incredibly memorable thing that you cannot believe someone who went through it - sober, even - would not remember. To me, they might as well be telling me something from someone else's life.
Once I was at a party and someone came up to me enthusiastically said my name, how are you doing, it's been so long. We talked for a minute and after he walked away I said to a friend I was there with "I literally have never seen that person in my life." Turns out we had dated, for a few months! I did not even remember dating them.
From my end, it is honestly horrible. It makes me feel like a terrible friend even when I am really showing up in a friendship. It makes me sad that I don't have memories of a life well lived, even though I can tell you so much detail about so many completely irrelevant things. It makes it sometimes hard to feel close to people, because by not remembering all those details of our long talks ... well that brings you closer doesn't it? I do get the sensation of closeness, but I don't think it is the same. It's like the people who can't visualize an apple in their minds, just the idea of an apple. I may have a friend who has an ongoing work saga that we talk about every single week and for the life of me, I remember there is a saga, but I cannot remember what happened sometimes last week, or sometimes I might remember last week but not the beginning of the story. I perpetually feel like a BAD person, and I judge myself heavily for it.
If you meet me, I will have forgotten your name before you are even done saying it even when I make a particular effort to repeat it ("Hi Sam, it's nice to meet you") and look at you thinking "Sam, Sam... this is Sam, from weightlifting class". This is really bad for me professionally, I cannot market myself or network. And it does make it hard to make new friends, or to get those friendly-ish relationships with parents of my kid's friends.
For awhile, I was making notes on my notes app about people and their lives. About new neighbors, or new friends, their dog's and kids' names, what they did, various things. I stopped doing that, maybe I should start again.
It must be painful when a friend doesn't remember these things, I can only imagine. I am sure I am sometimes causing people that pain, and that sometimes when I pretend I remember they probably can tell that I don't and think it means I don't care. I DO care about my friends' details, their inner workings, their favorite foods, all the little things that make them them. It is not personal.
posted by fennario at 12:15 PM on February 20 [12 favorites]
fennario, for the record, there are quirky people like me where that's a feature not a bug.
I cannot tell you how many of my considerate amazing lovely friends remember that "I" love strawberry ice cream and I personally don't actually really like it but I know that it's true that for some value of "I" it is true, and so of course I'm grateful.
But a friend who doesn't remember and so I can not have to remember whether that friend was told I like strawberry and I can say I hate strawberry without them getting that look on their face that told me I told them a year ago that I loved strawberry is...kind of nice.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:22 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
I cannot tell you how many of my considerate amazing lovely friends remember that "I" love strawberry ice cream and I personally don't actually really like it but I know that it's true that for some value of "I" it is true, and so of course I'm grateful.
But a friend who doesn't remember and so I can not have to remember whether that friend was told I like strawberry and I can say I hate strawberry without them getting that look on their face that told me I told them a year ago that I loved strawberry is...kind of nice.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:22 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
I have a bad memory for things friends or family tell me in conversation, but I also have trouble paying attention in conversation because I easily zone out when something isn't interesting to me personally. It's not good and I'm trying to get better at it!
But yeah, especially with people I see less often I sometimes feel like it takes me a while to "remember" what level of closeness we're at. Doesn't happen with friends I see more often, or close family members. Having a written records (texts, cards, or my own journaling) are kind of nice for this because then I have something to refer back to and proof that I went to their house in June or something.
posted by extramachine at 12:52 PM on February 20
But yeah, especially with people I see less often I sometimes feel like it takes me a while to "remember" what level of closeness we're at. Doesn't happen with friends I see more often, or close family members. Having a written records (texts, cards, or my own journaling) are kind of nice for this because then I have something to refer back to and proof that I went to their house in June or something.
posted by extramachine at 12:52 PM on February 20
We all have strengths and weaknesses. I think you have to decide if this is a deal breaker for you.
I am quite sharp in many ways, yet forget why I walked into a room to get something. So, so flaky. My partner finds it amusing and fascinating, thank goodness. I am also often super fun, with lots of ideas bouncing around in my head all the time. I can think of new approaches to old things. This is just how my head works.
I can remember things better when I am paying attention; sometimes, the problem is that I'm not paying enough attention.
On the other side of this, one of my best and most fiercely loyal friends is super forgetful and has a terrible memory. I think I'm okay with this because he shows his friendship in so many other ways, and he'd be the first person to go into battle to defend my good name (metaphorically).
I am wondering what it might be like to have a conversation with your friend about this, and see if you can come up with any solutions. Sometimes even talking about it, even if there's no solution, can make me feel better.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:23 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I am quite sharp in many ways, yet forget why I walked into a room to get something. So, so flaky. My partner finds it amusing and fascinating, thank goodness. I am also often super fun, with lots of ideas bouncing around in my head all the time. I can think of new approaches to old things. This is just how my head works.
I can remember things better when I am paying attention; sometimes, the problem is that I'm not paying enough attention.
On the other side of this, one of my best and most fiercely loyal friends is super forgetful and has a terrible memory. I think I'm okay with this because he shows his friendship in so many other ways, and he'd be the first person to go into battle to defend my good name (metaphorically).
I am wondering what it might be like to have a conversation with your friend about this, and see if you can come up with any solutions. Sometimes even talking about it, even if there's no solution, can make me feel better.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:23 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I will stop posting so much in this ask I promise but I forgot to add: I do not hold grudges hardly at all. Once an argument is done or if you forget an appointment and we've moved on - I fully move on. I have like two grudges in my life that I have held longer than a few months and they were significant betrayals.
So that's kind of a flip positive.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:27 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
So that's kind of a flip positive.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:27 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
I'm a forgetter. I think some of this is neurodivergence. I'm also not great at recognizing faces, which probably doesn't help? Like warriorqueen, I don't really hold grudges. I sometimes have to actively cultivate them when it's a bridge that needs to be burnt.
I still remember lots and lots of things about my friends, but once in a while someone brings up a time we had dinner and it's a complete blank for me. The worst was forgetting that a friend had horrible childhood memories tied to a particular item, and getting him something similar as a birthday present. I forget jobs if it's not something I already have a framework for, I have only vague notions of what my tech friends do. I often forget that friends have met each other. I make notes in my contacts app about food allergies, pet names, etc. to compensate, and sometimes I review what I talked with someone about last time I saw them if I know I'm going to meet them soon to help me not be rudely clueless. I have calendar alarms for birthdays and follow ups.
It sounds like you haven't talked with your friend about this, and that seems like a good place to start. They will probably apologize profusely. It may also be worth examining your ideal: nobody remembers everything, memory is famously fluid over time, and it's impossible to fully know another person.
posted by momus_window at 1:39 PM on February 20
I still remember lots and lots of things about my friends, but once in a while someone brings up a time we had dinner and it's a complete blank for me. The worst was forgetting that a friend had horrible childhood memories tied to a particular item, and getting him something similar as a birthday present. I forget jobs if it's not something I already have a framework for, I have only vague notions of what my tech friends do. I often forget that friends have met each other. I make notes in my contacts app about food allergies, pet names, etc. to compensate, and sometimes I review what I talked with someone about last time I saw them if I know I'm going to meet them soon to help me not be rudely clueless. I have calendar alarms for birthdays and follow ups.
It sounds like you haven't talked with your friend about this, and that seems like a good place to start. They will probably apologize profusely. It may also be worth examining your ideal: nobody remembers everything, memory is famously fluid over time, and it's impossible to fully know another person.
posted by momus_window at 1:39 PM on February 20
I'm a forgetter. This might not be the perspective you're looking for, but all that stuff is pretty irrelevant to me. People often forget what I do and it doesn't bother me. I only remember people's jobs if it's relevant in some way, like something we have in common, or maybe something really unusual and interesting. Not really sure what other "basic facts" you mean, but in general I tend to be friends with people based on shared interests, values and how our personalities fit together, and random facts about the other person's life story or whatever don't really affect anything unless we have a shared connection about it or it reveals something dealbreaking about their character. I don't relate at all to your sense of forgotten facts being bricks falling out, since for me the bricks are shared experiences, not those random facts.
It's never really occurred to me to feel bad about being like this. In the long list of problems my terrible memory causes, this one is way, way down the list, if even there at all. Since my friends have never complained, I assume people who do care about me forgetting things about them have drifted away from me, which is probably best for everyone. I'd much prefer that over them getting sad about not getting something from me that I'm unable to provide.
posted by randomnity at 2:39 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
It's never really occurred to me to feel bad about being like this. In the long list of problems my terrible memory causes, this one is way, way down the list, if even there at all. Since my friends have never complained, I assume people who do care about me forgetting things about them have drifted away from me, which is probably best for everyone. I'd much prefer that over them getting sad about not getting something from me that I'm unable to provide.
posted by randomnity at 2:39 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Oh and I should mention, because it's definitely relevant, that most (if not all) of my friends, and me, are ADHD. So the friendship building and dynamic, and our view of memory, is probably very different from those between neurotypical people. We also don't tend to hold grudges and can go a long time without talking to each other because nobody remembers to, and then resume like nothing happened (because it didn't, it's just how it is).
posted by randomnity at 2:49 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
posted by randomnity at 2:49 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
One of my dearest friends has memory loss due to a series of electroconvulsive treatments for the worst depression imaginable a few years ago. At first, it hurt my feelings when she forgot something really important about my life, but as I figured out the scope of her forgetting and remembering, I got more comfortable just quickly reminding her, if necessary, or letting it go if not. Her memory for things that have happened since the treatment has improved, but she still loses things from time to time. Fortunately, we've been able to talk about it and accommodate it without hurt feelings.
A few years ago, i was on a medication that really messed with my memory. At some point I figured out what was happening, and started taking notes after every interaction with people I didn't see all the time. I was part of a group that met regularly, mainly for social purposes, and I would take notes after a meeting and review them before the next one, for instance. There are still a lot of things from that year or so that I remember happened but I have no actual memory of—I led a one-time writing workshop, for instance, and I know I did it because have records, but I have no memory of the event itself.
I am very grateful that, off that medication, my memory has returned to normal, and the more time passes, the less it matters that, say, June 2018 is a blank. I'm pleased with myself for how I managed to cope with it. I wish I'd realized sooner it was the medication, and not a new and horrible manifestation of the neurological disease I live with.
Memory is complicated and it works very differently for people. Someone made a post on the front page awhile ago, about "rememberers and forgetters", and it made a big difference in my life, in part because I have a new loved one who is a forgetter, whereas I am a rememberer. I tell all the stories, all the time! He remembers that he did a thing—in his youth, he was actually one of those New Orleans debutantes in the white dresses who can curtsy all the way to the floor—but he has no stories about it. I want his stories! But he doesn't remember things that way. I wasn't ever going to be a jerk to him about it, but we had some really good conversations after I shared that article with him.
posted by Well I never at 4:45 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
A few years ago, i was on a medication that really messed with my memory. At some point I figured out what was happening, and started taking notes after every interaction with people I didn't see all the time. I was part of a group that met regularly, mainly for social purposes, and I would take notes after a meeting and review them before the next one, for instance. There are still a lot of things from that year or so that I remember happened but I have no actual memory of—I led a one-time writing workshop, for instance, and I know I did it because have records, but I have no memory of the event itself.
I am very grateful that, off that medication, my memory has returned to normal, and the more time passes, the less it matters that, say, June 2018 is a blank. I'm pleased with myself for how I managed to cope with it. I wish I'd realized sooner it was the medication, and not a new and horrible manifestation of the neurological disease I live with.
Memory is complicated and it works very differently for people. Someone made a post on the front page awhile ago, about "rememberers and forgetters", and it made a big difference in my life, in part because I have a new loved one who is a forgetter, whereas I am a rememberer. I tell all the stories, all the time! He remembers that he did a thing—in his youth, he was actually one of those New Orleans debutantes in the white dresses who can curtsy all the way to the floor—but he has no stories about it. I want his stories! But he doesn't remember things that way. I wasn't ever going to be a jerk to him about it, but we had some really good conversations after I shared that article with him.
posted by Well I never at 4:45 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
I'm a forgetter and life-partnered with a forgetter. Both of us have similar trauma-related memory issues.
We both forget *really* important facts about each other that are repeated multiple times. But we are both desperately in love with each other; it has absolutely nothing to do with importance or closeness. What it has to do with is the fact that our brains prioritize danger and safety for people we love over non-danger related items.
My person will notice the slightest, smallest detail about me that might mean something is *wrong*. And *that* is what deepens with more closeness - a heightened awareness of danger signs. Of what the crook in your eyebrows or a certain tone in your voice means. Or if your window is left unlocked. Or if someone in your life behaves towards you in an untoward way - they will remember *that*.
In a friendship context: I don't ever remember what my friends do for work, or what happened to them day to day. I remember the shitty things their partners said to them that make me worry that their partners are dangerous, or the things they are doing that make me think their partners are cheating. (I'm usually right). I notice when they're standing too close to the street, or when they forget to lock their door. I notice if they're in danger of running out of important things that might put them in danger when there are shortages.
How does your friend act when you tell them about danger-related things?
posted by FutureExpatCorb at 6:17 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
We both forget *really* important facts about each other that are repeated multiple times. But we are both desperately in love with each other; it has absolutely nothing to do with importance or closeness. What it has to do with is the fact that our brains prioritize danger and safety for people we love over non-danger related items.
My person will notice the slightest, smallest detail about me that might mean something is *wrong*. And *that* is what deepens with more closeness - a heightened awareness of danger signs. Of what the crook in your eyebrows or a certain tone in your voice means. Or if your window is left unlocked. Or if someone in your life behaves towards you in an untoward way - they will remember *that*.
In a friendship context: I don't ever remember what my friends do for work, or what happened to them day to day. I remember the shitty things their partners said to them that make me worry that their partners are dangerous, or the things they are doing that make me think their partners are cheating. (I'm usually right). I notice when they're standing too close to the street, or when they forget to lock their door. I notice if they're in danger of running out of important things that might put them in danger when there are shortages.
How does your friend act when you tell them about danger-related things?
posted by FutureExpatCorb at 6:17 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
For trauma related reasons I'm another person whose ability to form memories and to recall memories varies a lot based on how stressed or triggered I am. It can be quite subtle -- I think depending on context there are parts of me that actually block out positive memories I've made, because they feel dangerous. Also I might be freezing up so much at the thought of how awkward it would be if I didn't remember what you do for a living that my brain just sort of assumes it doesn't know. It's hard to catch because it's hard to remember what you're not remembering.
One consequence of this is that even if I've appeared to forget something, there is a decent chance that with some prompting and in a less stressful moment, I will eventually remember. I don't know if this is true of your friend but it may be that some of what is reading to you as 'they never took this think I said in at all' is actually 'this memory isn't available to them in the current moment.'
posted by pandabanter at 4:57 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
One consequence of this is that even if I've appeared to forget something, there is a decent chance that with some prompting and in a less stressful moment, I will eventually remember. I don't know if this is true of your friend but it may be that some of what is reading to you as 'they never took this think I said in at all' is actually 'this memory isn't available to them in the current moment.'
posted by pandabanter at 4:57 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
I had a friend who has a bad memory. I always wondered why. Was it his ADHD or the fact that he did a lot of drugs in his teens and twenties, or what? He flew to Hawaii with his daughter one year to visit his son who was stationed there in the Marines, and he does not remember the trip at all. He rarely remembers any events. He never remembered any activities we did together, so we could never reminisce about anything. I spend a lot of my spare "thinking" time reminiscing about things in the past, thinking about things that happened that day, etc., so I was always so curious about what, if he can't remember things, exactly does go on in his head. It reminded me of the old poster, "Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits." I wondered, does he "just sits"?
Anyway, if someone can't even remember an important event such as a trip to Hawaii to visit their son in the Marines, then I certainly can't take it personally if I, for example, as just a friend, have to enter my birth date on their calendar to remind them when my birthday is.
If you want to continue to be friends with this person, I guess you'll just have to not take things personally. And if you decide to not continue the friendship because it doesn't meet what you need in a friendship, i.e., it is unfulfilling, that's okay, too.
posted by SageTrail at 7:35 AM on February 21
Anyway, if someone can't even remember an important event such as a trip to Hawaii to visit their son in the Marines, then I certainly can't take it personally if I, for example, as just a friend, have to enter my birth date on their calendar to remind them when my birthday is.
If you want to continue to be friends with this person, I guess you'll just have to not take things personally. And if you decide to not continue the friendship because it doesn't meet what you need in a friendship, i.e., it is unfulfilling, that's okay, too.
posted by SageTrail at 7:35 AM on February 21
I'm older and the first thought I had was whether your friend was older as well. People we have known who previously could recall activities we did together, or likes/dislikes and now cannot recall them are a different circumstance than people who never seem to have recall of prior conversations.
If your friend used to be able to share memories with you and has over time not been able to recall those memories, or bring them up independently it may be worth checking in if she's seen her doctor lately. Alzheimer's is a very difficult subject to raise, but for people over ~60, it is necessary to help them see if they can't see it themselves. I have a friend who I knew because of our dog walking together who is going through that now and it's always on my mind that I have to remind her which of my dogs have passed and what the names of the new ones are. She's aware of her deficits, so neither of us takes it personally.
posted by drossdragon at 8:36 AM on February 21
If your friend used to be able to share memories with you and has over time not been able to recall those memories, or bring them up independently it may be worth checking in if she's seen her doctor lately. Alzheimer's is a very difficult subject to raise, but for people over ~60, it is necessary to help them see if they can't see it themselves. I have a friend who I knew because of our dog walking together who is going through that now and it's always on my mind that I have to remind her which of my dogs have passed and what the names of the new ones are. She's aware of her deficits, so neither of us takes it personally.
posted by drossdragon at 8:36 AM on February 21
This is something that's important to me. And yet I'm having memory issues myself for the past several years. I take notes on Really Big Stuff, and put reminders in my calendar to ask them about big things they have coming up and for things like their dead mother's birthday if that's a rough day for them. (Few people expect their friends to remember the latter, but I do it to help make up for my other failings.)
When I've had friends like this I don't feel cared for unless they are showing care in other ways. While it might sting if they don't remember my kid moved out, it stings a lot less if they come right over if I need something.
Explicitly asking for other forms of care might be necessary.
posted by metasarah at 2:48 PM on February 21
When I've had friends like this I don't feel cared for unless they are showing care in other ways. While it might sting if they don't remember my kid moved out, it stings a lot less if they come right over if I need something.
Explicitly asking for other forms of care might be necessary.
posted by metasarah at 2:48 PM on February 21
Response by poster: Thanks, all, for generously sharing your experiences- extra appreciation for the detailed 'here's how it feels to me' descriptions. This was all very helpful.
As some of you noted, the overall context of the friendship definitely influences the way this lands. I'm mentally chewing on the forgetting phenomenon in conjunction with the fact that outside of our regularly scheduled activity my friend is also on the low-contact, low-feedback side to a possibly-maybe-probably dealbreaking degree, as disappointing as that is to acknowledge. (Some of you also brought up neurodivergence and you're right that that's in the mix, along with high introversion.) I enjoy and value this person so much, but I can also see that the amount of not-taking-it-personally effort required, disproportionately on my end, to translate and bridge between our ways of being and approaches to relationship maintenance is probably not sustainable for the kind of close friendship I like to cultivate. Alas.
posted by wormtales at 6:21 AM on February 25
As some of you noted, the overall context of the friendship definitely influences the way this lands. I'm mentally chewing on the forgetting phenomenon in conjunction with the fact that outside of our regularly scheduled activity my friend is also on the low-contact, low-feedback side to a possibly-maybe-probably dealbreaking degree, as disappointing as that is to acknowledge. (Some of you also brought up neurodivergence and you're right that that's in the mix, along with high introversion.) I enjoy and value this person so much, but I can also see that the amount of not-taking-it-personally effort required, disproportionately on my end, to translate and bridge between our ways of being and approaches to relationship maintenance is probably not sustainable for the kind of close friendship I like to cultivate. Alas.
posted by wormtales at 6:21 AM on February 25
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If someone tells me, "Remember? I told you this," in a nice way I would appreciate that and make more of an effort to remember that thing in the future. I generally do try to make an effort and I feel bad when I forget things. Sometimes I write things about my friends down so I can refer back to it. Like, I put my friends' big plans (like their travel dates, for instance) on my calendar because otherwise I will completely lose track. And I have a list of birthdays on my phone. That kind of thing helps a bit.
One of my close friends accepts this about me, more or less, and I appreciate it a lot. Maybe it's more annoying for her than she lets on. But we have a bit of a rapport about it, I joke that she's my ears and my memory (since I'm hard of hearing and forgetful), and she doesn't hesitate to remind me about stuff (especially about common experiences and about other people, like gossip) when I ask her. Sometimes she teases me in a gentle, funny way about being forgetful.
So yeah, I would say, you can just directly point it out to the friend and maybe also make a joke out of it. Both approaches can be a way of subtly signaling to them that they have an issue there and they need to make more of an effort with you.
If they don't feel guilty about it though, I think that's not a good sign for you. I think it's very reasonable and important to expect your friends to remember things about you! Like your job! That's important. So yeah if you don't see any improvement over the course of your friendship, that might be an issue.
posted by justsomebody at 10:56 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]