Sourdough starter cold kitchen question
January 9, 2025 5:00 AM Subscribe
My starter only doubles when I feed it with rye flour, but does not double with wheat flour. I plan to bake with 75% KA bread flour, 25% whole wheat. Do I need to get the starter to be just as active with wheat flour before I use it becauae it doesn't seem to be fully active with wheat at this point? Feeding details inside.
My sourdough starter is 6 months old, was in the fridge for over a month. I took it out and fed it (about 1:1.5:1.5).
Day 1. Almost doubled with whole wheat flour. My kitchen was warm from cooking.
Day 2. Same feeding with whole wheat flour, did not double. Only grew 1 cm total in my 70F kitchen.
Day 3. Fed with rye flour. More than doubled in a 70F kitchen overnight. So obviously much more active with rye.
Do I need to feed it a few more days until it is happy as a wheat starter? Or can I bake with it now at its peak?
Do I need to let my dough bulk ferment in a warm kitchen like the starter on Day 1 to make sure the bread works? Or will the bread work as usual in a 70F kitchen now that the starter is active with rye?
I'll be using this recipe which worked well for me in warmer months with the addition of 25% whole wheat flour.
My sourdough starter is 6 months old, was in the fridge for over a month. I took it out and fed it (about 1:1.5:1.5).
Day 1. Almost doubled with whole wheat flour. My kitchen was warm from cooking.
Day 2. Same feeding with whole wheat flour, did not double. Only grew 1 cm total in my 70F kitchen.
Day 3. Fed with rye flour. More than doubled in a 70F kitchen overnight. So obviously much more active with rye.
Do I need to feed it a few more days until it is happy as a wheat starter? Or can I bake with it now at its peak?
Do I need to let my dough bulk ferment in a warm kitchen like the starter on Day 1 to make sure the bread works? Or will the bread work as usual in a 70F kitchen now that the starter is active with rye?
I'll be using this recipe which worked well for me in warmer months with the addition of 25% whole wheat flour.
It's been a while since I've baked sourdough, but I usually did what you're describing: feed with rye and then make my loaf with wheat (and I added some spelt). As far as your bulk rise goes: you want to aim for a doubling in size, however long that takes given the temperature of your kitchen. I don't remember the minimum temperature you'd need, but as long as it's active it'll get there eventually.
If you've got enough flour, I might be inclined to try both: make enough rye starter to have a double batch (or make two smaller loaves), and let one rise somewhere warmer, and leave the other to rise overnight in a cooler place. The warmer one should mean you've got at least one loaf that works, and cooler one is a bonus if it works.
posted by Karmeliet at 7:35 AM on January 9
If you've got enough flour, I might be inclined to try both: make enough rye starter to have a double batch (or make two smaller loaves), and let one rise somewhere warmer, and leave the other to rise overnight in a cooler place. The warmer one should mean you've got at least one loaf that works, and cooler one is a bonus if it works.
posted by Karmeliet at 7:35 AM on January 9
Best answer: Rye flour has quite a bit more amylase enzyme compared to wheat flour, which means there are quite a bit more sugars available for the yeast and bacteria to eat. This is why a rye starter/dough or a wheat starter/dough containing a significant percentage of rye will have more vigorous fermentation activity compared to wheat alone.
Meanwhile, a sourdough starter is effectively a little evolution machine and will select for yeasts/bacteria that are best adapted to that environment. What you have in your starter is a whole lot of yeast and bacteria that are used to having a lot more available sugars around than is found in an all-wheat environment. This doesn't make the yeast and bacteria very happy in an all-wheat environment and they won't ferment as well as they otherwise would. Moreover, they won't ferment in an all-wheat environment as well as yeast and bacteria that have been selected for that environment would do. The extent to which the rye-adapted yeast and bacteria do poorly in an all-wheat (or even mostly wheat) environment really depends on the specific strains in the culture. Some cultures have more rye-wheat cross-compatibility than others. If you start refreshing your rye starter using only wheat, you're effectively creating a new starter culture as the current yeast and bacteria will eventually be out-competed by yeast and bacteria better suited for wheat.
Feeding regimens, etc. can also have a pretty big effect on fermentation characteristics and success. If you want the most vigorous and healthy culture and you want to select for the most desirable microflora you really should be feeding somewhere around one part old starter to around 5 parts flour and 5 parts water by weight.
Practical advice: If you want to bake mostly wheat breads, stop feeding your culture with rye and let a wheat culture establish itself. Until a stable and vigorous wheat culture is established I'd suggest adding 10-15% rye flour to your wheat doughs.
posted by slkinsey at 8:48 AM on January 9 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile, a sourdough starter is effectively a little evolution machine and will select for yeasts/bacteria that are best adapted to that environment. What you have in your starter is a whole lot of yeast and bacteria that are used to having a lot more available sugars around than is found in an all-wheat environment. This doesn't make the yeast and bacteria very happy in an all-wheat environment and they won't ferment as well as they otherwise would. Moreover, they won't ferment in an all-wheat environment as well as yeast and bacteria that have been selected for that environment would do. The extent to which the rye-adapted yeast and bacteria do poorly in an all-wheat (or even mostly wheat) environment really depends on the specific strains in the culture. Some cultures have more rye-wheat cross-compatibility than others. If you start refreshing your rye starter using only wheat, you're effectively creating a new starter culture as the current yeast and bacteria will eventually be out-competed by yeast and bacteria better suited for wheat.
Feeding regimens, etc. can also have a pretty big effect on fermentation characteristics and success. If you want the most vigorous and healthy culture and you want to select for the most desirable microflora you really should be feeding somewhere around one part old starter to around 5 parts flour and 5 parts water by weight.
Practical advice: If you want to bake mostly wheat breads, stop feeding your culture with rye and let a wheat culture establish itself. Until a stable and vigorous wheat culture is established I'd suggest adding 10-15% rye flour to your wheat doughs.
posted by slkinsey at 8:48 AM on January 9 [5 favorites]
Bake with it now and make sure it rises in a warm place.
What works for me: i feed my starter 50% rye and 50% AP and use it for any kind of bread, by which i mean bagels with only bread flour, classic sourdough batard with 50% AP and 50% bread flour, or multigrain sourdough batard with 33% spelt/whole wheat, 33% AP, and 33% bread flour plus seed inclusions. Same starter, various breads.
For me, the kitchen temp is the challenge, so i often use the "oven with the light on" trick. Starter lives in there overnight before mixing and dough lives in there while bulk fermenting. Makes all the difference in the world.
I keep my starter in the fridge if I'm not going to bake for more than a few days, then give it a day or two of twice a day feedings at 1:2:2 to get it perky again, while on the counter. To bulk up the quantity for baking, I'll feed at 1:10:10 the night before I'm going to mix. I don't have issues with the starter doubling...
posted by jindc at 1:58 PM on January 10
What works for me: i feed my starter 50% rye and 50% AP and use it for any kind of bread, by which i mean bagels with only bread flour, classic sourdough batard with 50% AP and 50% bread flour, or multigrain sourdough batard with 33% spelt/whole wheat, 33% AP, and 33% bread flour plus seed inclusions. Same starter, various breads.
For me, the kitchen temp is the challenge, so i often use the "oven with the light on" trick. Starter lives in there overnight before mixing and dough lives in there while bulk fermenting. Makes all the difference in the world.
I keep my starter in the fridge if I'm not going to bake for more than a few days, then give it a day or two of twice a day feedings at 1:2:2 to get it perky again, while on the counter. To bulk up the quantity for baking, I'll feed at 1:10:10 the night before I'm going to mix. I don't have issues with the starter doubling...
posted by jindc at 1:58 PM on January 10
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Some people feed with maybe 5% rye flour/95% wheat, but that sounds far from what's happening here.
Your starter seems to be telling you it's more active (and will be more successful) with wheat flour.
posted by fruitslinger at 6:55 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]