Coping in a red state
November 6, 2024 1:03 PM Subscribe
I am devastated by the results of this election. I live in a red state, which I love, and I am surrounded by people I love who voted for Trump. I have given up trying to understand it. These people are my community. I truly believe they are good, kind, thoughtful people, and they voted for someone who is promising to do a lot of harm to other good, kind people. Any advice for coping? I can't cut them off, they are friends and family. Help.
This piece on slate gets at least part of it right, imo. The gist is, it’s partly about messaging and partly about getting needs met. Democratic administrations and the Harris campaign got a lot wrong on both counts, enough that a lot of people who might have voted for her couldn’t see themselves doing it. Fwiw, I didn’t vote for trump, but I have socially, economically, and racially marginalized family and friends who did, for the reasons described above.
https://slate.com/life/2024/11/election-2024-results-presidential-trump-harris-women.html
posted by toodleydoodley at 1:24 PM on November 6 [2 favorites]
https://slate.com/life/2024/11/election-2024-results-presidential-trump-harris-women.html
posted by toodleydoodley at 1:24 PM on November 6 [2 favorites]
I would encourage you to listen to this episode of This American Life, where in Act 2 they visit the aftermath of an ICE Raid in a small and conservative leaning town. This is what we've all been signed up for willingly or not. This is one example of the things that will directly impact people over the next four years.
There's a likelihood that people in your community will lose healthcare coverage in whole or part, schools will get less funding, climate change impacts will be felt, etc. When something like that happens your job will not be to say, "told you so" or "you reap what you sow" but to try to engage people in more meaningful dialog about how government actually impacts their lives and the kind of society they really want to live in.
I have no magical expertise on how to have those dialogues, but there will be openings for people to consider another way.
posted by brookeb at 1:40 PM on November 6 [3 favorites]
There's a likelihood that people in your community will lose healthcare coverage in whole or part, schools will get less funding, climate change impacts will be felt, etc. When something like that happens your job will not be to say, "told you so" or "you reap what you sow" but to try to engage people in more meaningful dialog about how government actually impacts their lives and the kind of society they really want to live in.
I have no magical expertise on how to have those dialogues, but there will be openings for people to consider another way.
posted by brookeb at 1:40 PM on November 6 [3 favorites]
'Forgive them, for they know not what they do'
is the closest I can get.
I truly believe they are good, kind, thoughtful people
What all those qualities actually mean is an endless question. But if you truly believe they're not fueled by hate, at least not completely, and you want to be able to feel better about them, then maybe go out of your way to offer them chances to act like good people - not towards the categories of people they are already happy to help and protect, but towards the categories of people they currently hate or fear or don't see as real.
posted by trig at 1:44 PM on November 6 [8 favorites]
is the closest I can get.
I truly believe they are good, kind, thoughtful people
What all those qualities actually mean is an endless question. But if you truly believe they're not fueled by hate, at least not completely, and you want to be able to feel better about them, then maybe go out of your way to offer them chances to act like good people - not towards the categories of people they are already happy to help and protect, but towards the categories of people they currently hate or fear or don't see as real.
posted by trig at 1:44 PM on November 6 [8 favorites]
For some Americans, it is just a complete disconnect from politics:
'Did Joe Biden Drop Out' Google Searches Spike on Election Night, Suggesting Many Americans Had No Idea He Wasn't Running
Beyond that, there are many Americans who remain convinced that this is a special country - those scary sounding things that were being said by Trump were just rhetoric to stir up the base, or things that will be stopped by the guardrails, or "He didn't really say that!"
Some are single issue voters and they will ignore the writing on the wall and everything else that is going on, lost in their navel gazing, convinced that their pet peeve is the only relevant issue in the world.
Then there are the ones who do believe and want exactly what Trump has been offering - if some of your friends and family fall into this group, I'd advise reconsidering your relationships with them. But first I'd try to understand where they all fall first, assuming that they'd even let their masks slip enough for you to know.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 1:47 PM on November 6 [7 favorites]
'Did Joe Biden Drop Out' Google Searches Spike on Election Night, Suggesting Many Americans Had No Idea He Wasn't Running
Beyond that, there are many Americans who remain convinced that this is a special country - those scary sounding things that were being said by Trump were just rhetoric to stir up the base, or things that will be stopped by the guardrails, or "He didn't really say that!"
Some are single issue voters and they will ignore the writing on the wall and everything else that is going on, lost in their navel gazing, convinced that their pet peeve is the only relevant issue in the world.
Then there are the ones who do believe and want exactly what Trump has been offering - if some of your friends and family fall into this group, I'd advise reconsidering your relationships with them. But first I'd try to understand where they all fall first, assuming that they'd even let their masks slip enough for you to know.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 1:47 PM on November 6 [7 favorites]
I have no wise words, but wanted to say that I am sorry for your pain.
posted by senor biggles at 1:56 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
posted by senor biggles at 1:56 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
Taking as a given that you really do want to maintain these relationships: connect and form community around other things. Interests and passions that you share. Make these spaces a politics-free zone as much as you can. (In similar situations I've used scripting like, "well, you know I'm the resident bleeding heart liberal so we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't want to get into an argument! Now about that Sports Team/fuzzy kitten/tasty beer...")
When the time comes and you are in need, my hope is that they will help you because you are you, and you are beloved to them. In an ideal world, they would help because all humans are deserving of it, but as today demonstrates we are not in an ideal world.
That and like, read this Ask MetaFilter comment by salishsea over and over again because the narrative therein about how humanity works is the only thing keeping you sane, ask me how I know
posted by capricorn at 2:00 PM on November 6 [11 favorites]
When the time comes and you are in need, my hope is that they will help you because you are you, and you are beloved to them. In an ideal world, they would help because all humans are deserving of it, but as today demonstrates we are not in an ideal world.
That and like, read this Ask MetaFilter comment by salishsea over and over again because the narrative therein about how humanity works is the only thing keeping you sane, ask me how I know
posted by capricorn at 2:00 PM on November 6 [11 favorites]
My situation is not exactly the same as yours but it is a story of how to get along with friends and family who are on the total opposite side of the aisle, so perhaps you can find something to help you in my strategies.
My parents are extremely right wing - in India. It is mortifying and horrifying enough that they are this way but to make things worse my mother is also deep into conspiracy theories on a similar scale and off-the-charts-insane like QAnon in the US. At the same time I am also still engaged in a decade-long effort to build a decent relationship with my parents. So even though this is a self-imposed form of hell, the fact remains I am trying to actively love (as in verb-love) these people whose political opinions horrify me and who ruined their relationship with me in the past by throwing me out of their home as a teenager, abusing me as a child, etc.
Step 0 in accomplishing this task is to actually be clear, honest, and fully committed with yourself that you do want to keep and build these relationships.
For many years I was on the fence about it and I made no effort at all to build a relationship with my parents. That was fine! If you are here, you are not doing anything wrong! And neither will you be doing anything wrong if you do choose to walk away properly from people who trigger you too much. Many years after not working and fence-sitting, I intellectually realized I wanted to fix things but emotionally I remained uncommitted, angry, resentful, and blisteringly mad about how unfair it was that *I* was the one doing this fixing and building. This was also a valid stage to go through, and I suspect you're somewhere around here, feeling angry and hurt and torn within yourself that these are your fucking choices: to learn how to get along with assholes or else to lose all your family and friends. The unfairness REALLY RANKLES. This is extremely valid and extremely real, and there is no way out of this stage but through it. But sadly, no forward movement will happen FOR YOU EMOTIONALLY in this phase, as far as making your peace with your situation goes. (Also no forward movement will happen in fixing the relationship but that is not necessarily a bad thing, if you're in this stage.)
Accomplishing Step 0 - becoming fully and truly committed to building and maintaining these relationships - is a hue, huge task in itself. I would strongly encourage you to work with a psychodynamic therapist or some other modality that pays attention to childhood issues, in order to get to Step 0. You will know you have reached Step 0 when you can "radically accept" that your friends and family voted against your life, your rights, and your wellbeing. That is who they are, this is what you are dealing with, and you no longer have any wish to wrestle with this reality (try to convince them, try to lead by example, try to explain yourself, try to talk to them, try to get them to acknowledge your pain or at least be forced to see it, etc) because you. just. fully. accept their political position is their political position - you accept their total separateness from you and you accept their right to be separate from you - and even though you may be angry, even though you may be hurt, even though you still hate their politics, you want to just get on with building the relationship. If you're there, then you can move on to
Stratagem 1: find things you enjoy about this person, and trying to do things you mutually enjoy with them. Even the smallest movement towards identifying and then amplifying the good (by having small good interactions) will help. Repeated good interactions are what finally defeated my insecurity about "giving my parents an inch" - it felt so threatening to me to have anything nice with these people against whom I was nursing so much anger, and I TREASURED my anger, I didn't want to lose it! Having repeated nice experiences made me feel like, okay, I still haven't lost my right to anger or my anger even though I am having fun with them. Both my anger and my love can coexist. This has been a HUGE relief.
Stratagem 2: stop talking politics with them entirely. These are not your politics buddies. FIND OTHER POLITICS BUDDIES YOU CAN RELIABLY GET SUPPORT FROM for the political side of you. This type of compartmentalization is a healthy practice because nobody can be everything to us. Nobody in our personal life can check all the boxes and be everything we need from the world. People's failings are sometimes located near the very things we consider "basic shit". They are human, and this is okay, and we can find others to fill this basic need for us.
Stratagem 3: This may seem like the opposite of Stratagem 2 but it is not - don't stay silent when your friends and family say horrible political things to you or around you. You don't bring up politics but you don't stay quiet when unacceptable things are spoken in your vicinity. You MUST say something, you MUST speak your mind. Make it short but make it honest. Otherwise you build up an incredible amount of resentment and anger that will poison the relationship and run counter to your Step 0 goals.
Stratagem 4: After you say it, move on without belaboring your point or trying to get them to agree with you. Say it, and then completely let it go. Saying it is the point. The goal is NOT to change them, move them, make them think like you, make them acknowledge you, make them apologize, etc. The goal is unburdening yourself by speaking your truth, protecting the relationship by not allowing thoughts to fester in secret. If what they have said is horrible, say, "Wow, that's pretty horrible," and then move on immediately - warmly, affectionately, taking the sting out of it with your manner, without holding a grudge. You get your satisfaction by speaking up, not by making them bend. This strikes a great balance between being authentic and yet sidestepping useless conflict.
Stratagem 5: If they want to argue with you, you have to learn how to bow out smoothly without engaging in that. Say things like, "Oh, dad, that's fine, we can let it go. Tell me about Auntie's health..." Again it is important to remain non-retaliatory, don't punish them for wanting to hash this out by being angry. Be calm and warm and affectionate, but do not be moved into engaging in the political discussion. Walk out and take a short break if you need to. But come back on your own as soon as possible, and be loving. These are your people. You have boundaries with them, not walls.
posted by MiraK at 2:00 PM on November 6 [16 favorites]
My parents are extremely right wing - in India. It is mortifying and horrifying enough that they are this way but to make things worse my mother is also deep into conspiracy theories on a similar scale and off-the-charts-insane like QAnon in the US. At the same time I am also still engaged in a decade-long effort to build a decent relationship with my parents. So even though this is a self-imposed form of hell, the fact remains I am trying to actively love (as in verb-love) these people whose political opinions horrify me and who ruined their relationship with me in the past by throwing me out of their home as a teenager, abusing me as a child, etc.
Step 0 in accomplishing this task is to actually be clear, honest, and fully committed with yourself that you do want to keep and build these relationships.
For many years I was on the fence about it and I made no effort at all to build a relationship with my parents. That was fine! If you are here, you are not doing anything wrong! And neither will you be doing anything wrong if you do choose to walk away properly from people who trigger you too much. Many years after not working and fence-sitting, I intellectually realized I wanted to fix things but emotionally I remained uncommitted, angry, resentful, and blisteringly mad about how unfair it was that *I* was the one doing this fixing and building. This was also a valid stage to go through, and I suspect you're somewhere around here, feeling angry and hurt and torn within yourself that these are your fucking choices: to learn how to get along with assholes or else to lose all your family and friends. The unfairness REALLY RANKLES. This is extremely valid and extremely real, and there is no way out of this stage but through it. But sadly, no forward movement will happen FOR YOU EMOTIONALLY in this phase, as far as making your peace with your situation goes. (Also no forward movement will happen in fixing the relationship but that is not necessarily a bad thing, if you're in this stage.)
Accomplishing Step 0 - becoming fully and truly committed to building and maintaining these relationships - is a hue, huge task in itself. I would strongly encourage you to work with a psychodynamic therapist or some other modality that pays attention to childhood issues, in order to get to Step 0. You will know you have reached Step 0 when you can "radically accept" that your friends and family voted against your life, your rights, and your wellbeing. That is who they are, this is what you are dealing with, and you no longer have any wish to wrestle with this reality (try to convince them, try to lead by example, try to explain yourself, try to talk to them, try to get them to acknowledge your pain or at least be forced to see it, etc) because you. just. fully. accept their political position is their political position - you accept their total separateness from you and you accept their right to be separate from you - and even though you may be angry, even though you may be hurt, even though you still hate their politics, you want to just get on with building the relationship. If you're there, then you can move on to
Stratagem 1: find things you enjoy about this person, and trying to do things you mutually enjoy with them. Even the smallest movement towards identifying and then amplifying the good (by having small good interactions) will help. Repeated good interactions are what finally defeated my insecurity about "giving my parents an inch" - it felt so threatening to me to have anything nice with these people against whom I was nursing so much anger, and I TREASURED my anger, I didn't want to lose it! Having repeated nice experiences made me feel like, okay, I still haven't lost my right to anger or my anger even though I am having fun with them. Both my anger and my love can coexist. This has been a HUGE relief.
Stratagem 2: stop talking politics with them entirely. These are not your politics buddies. FIND OTHER POLITICS BUDDIES YOU CAN RELIABLY GET SUPPORT FROM for the political side of you. This type of compartmentalization is a healthy practice because nobody can be everything to us. Nobody in our personal life can check all the boxes and be everything we need from the world. People's failings are sometimes located near the very things we consider "basic shit". They are human, and this is okay, and we can find others to fill this basic need for us.
Stratagem 3: This may seem like the opposite of Stratagem 2 but it is not - don't stay silent when your friends and family say horrible political things to you or around you. You don't bring up politics but you don't stay quiet when unacceptable things are spoken in your vicinity. You MUST say something, you MUST speak your mind. Make it short but make it honest. Otherwise you build up an incredible amount of resentment and anger that will poison the relationship and run counter to your Step 0 goals.
Stratagem 4: After you say it, move on without belaboring your point or trying to get them to agree with you. Say it, and then completely let it go. Saying it is the point. The goal is NOT to change them, move them, make them think like you, make them acknowledge you, make them apologize, etc. The goal is unburdening yourself by speaking your truth, protecting the relationship by not allowing thoughts to fester in secret. If what they have said is horrible, say, "Wow, that's pretty horrible," and then move on immediately - warmly, affectionately, taking the sting out of it with your manner, without holding a grudge. You get your satisfaction by speaking up, not by making them bend. This strikes a great balance between being authentic and yet sidestepping useless conflict.
Stratagem 5: If they want to argue with you, you have to learn how to bow out smoothly without engaging in that. Say things like, "Oh, dad, that's fine, we can let it go. Tell me about Auntie's health..." Again it is important to remain non-retaliatory, don't punish them for wanting to hash this out by being angry. Be calm and warm and affectionate, but do not be moved into engaging in the political discussion. Walk out and take a short break if you need to. But come back on your own as soon as possible, and be loving. These are your people. You have boundaries with them, not walls.
posted by MiraK at 2:00 PM on November 6 [16 favorites]
They are either grossly misled (and intentionally remaining ignorant) or not as good of people as you think they are.
I'm working to come to terms, in my own sphere (in a blue state, but have a lot of family/friends are red) that an awful lot of people that I thought were good people, I was wrong about.
A person who is willing to overlook evil in order to get what they want is NOT a good person.
posted by stormyteal at 2:03 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
I'm working to come to terms, in my own sphere (in a blue state, but have a lot of family/friends are red) that an awful lot of people that I thought were good people, I was wrong about.
A person who is willing to overlook evil in order to get what they want is NOT a good person.
posted by stormyteal at 2:03 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
I had an idea a few months back when Vance was talking about "childless cat ladies". I have some relatives who live in red states and I'm pretty sure they're Trump supporters; but if you spoke with them they would also call themselves good and kind people. They also have treated me well.
And that's what gave me the idea. There are a lot of people who don't really "get" a lot of issues until they have first-hand or second-hand experience with them. It's kind of like when you have these guys who say that "I didn't think sexual harassments was such a big deal, then I got married/had a daughter and now I get it." Or "I thought gay pride was a stupid thing but then my kid came out to me." It doesn't always work, but there are a lot of people who just see a lot of these groups as "others", and as these nebulous issues happening somewhere out there that doesn't impact them; but then when they realize that their daughter/son/spouse/neighbor/friend is one of the people affected by that issue, that can bring them up short and finally make it more personal for them.
So I tried to make it personal for my relatives. I quoted everything Vance said about childless women having no stake in the future of this country, and posted it on Facebook - and then ended with a message to them that "I want you all to understand: when Vance is saying these things about childless ladies, he is talking about me. He is saying these things about me. He is saying I have no stake in this country. Really think about that a moment, please."
It would be better if they had had the imagination to realize that everyone needed protection without your having to make it personal - but they didn't. Maybe, though, your quietly pointing out at some point that "hey, you know, when they're talking about X - they're talking about me" will wake some of them up a bit.
I'll admit that it won't work on everyone - some may double down that "oh, but you're not like THOSE OTHERS" or react even worse. But for some, it may make a difference.
If you're comfortable with this, of course. Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:08 PM on November 6 [10 favorites]
And that's what gave me the idea. There are a lot of people who don't really "get" a lot of issues until they have first-hand or second-hand experience with them. It's kind of like when you have these guys who say that "I didn't think sexual harassments was such a big deal, then I got married/had a daughter and now I get it." Or "I thought gay pride was a stupid thing but then my kid came out to me." It doesn't always work, but there are a lot of people who just see a lot of these groups as "others", and as these nebulous issues happening somewhere out there that doesn't impact them; but then when they realize that their daughter/son/spouse/neighbor/friend is one of the people affected by that issue, that can bring them up short and finally make it more personal for them.
So I tried to make it personal for my relatives. I quoted everything Vance said about childless women having no stake in the future of this country, and posted it on Facebook - and then ended with a message to them that "I want you all to understand: when Vance is saying these things about childless ladies, he is talking about me. He is saying these things about me. He is saying I have no stake in this country. Really think about that a moment, please."
It would be better if they had had the imagination to realize that everyone needed protection without your having to make it personal - but they didn't. Maybe, though, your quietly pointing out at some point that "hey, you know, when they're talking about X - they're talking about me" will wake some of them up a bit.
I'll admit that it won't work on everyone - some may double down that "oh, but you're not like THOSE OTHERS" or react even worse. But for some, it may make a difference.
If you're comfortable with this, of course. Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:08 PM on November 6 [10 favorites]
Commit to loving them with your eyes open, if this is going to be your choice. Do not 'agree to disagree', or not to talk politics, that is cowardice. Don't pretend it's fine if it's not. You sit and listen and you take it and if you are given an opportunity you try to fix it. You ask yourself with every interaction: ARE these good people? They're still worth this? Are you seeing a crack you can reach through? Has an opportunity arisen to try to get them to understand?
Because that's what you'd do, with good people. You'd help them with something they didn't understand.
It should be uncomfortable. If you're not experiencing cognitive dissonance, what does that say about you?
And if you have any friends who are vulnerable, you need to be transparent with them. It's up to them to decide if you're safe, not you. You can't assure anyone that other people are going to be safe enough for second-degree association, in the long run.
Your priority can only be that you can sleep at night, satisfied with the decisions you've made. There is no trick in the world that can make you eat shit and like it, so your options are acceptance or delusion.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:24 PM on November 6 [2 favorites]
Because that's what you'd do, with good people. You'd help them with something they didn't understand.
It should be uncomfortable. If you're not experiencing cognitive dissonance, what does that say about you?
And if you have any friends who are vulnerable, you need to be transparent with them. It's up to them to decide if you're safe, not you. You can't assure anyone that other people are going to be safe enough for second-degree association, in the long run.
Your priority can only be that you can sleep at night, satisfied with the decisions you've made. There is no trick in the world that can make you eat shit and like it, so your options are acceptance or delusion.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:24 PM on November 6 [2 favorites]
I have been repeating to my formerly-moderate Republican friends whenever they try to tell me why they like TFG: “This country gets what it deserves.”
posted by Melismata at 2:26 PM on November 6
posted by Melismata at 2:26 PM on November 6
I grew up in Kansas and have lived in Portland for the last 23 years. I totally get what you mean.
A lot of people think of Trump voters as horrible, irredeemable, low-IQ morons who are voting against their own self interest. I don't see them that way and it appears you don't either. A lot of my favorite people in the world voted for Trump. A lot of my favorite people also voted for Harris. I try not to judge either side because both sides earnestly believe they are doing what is best for them, their family, and the country.
I don't think it ever helps to "other" a group of people.
posted by tacodave at 2:41 PM on November 6 [12 favorites]
A lot of people think of Trump voters as horrible, irredeemable, low-IQ morons who are voting against their own self interest. I don't see them that way and it appears you don't either. A lot of my favorite people in the world voted for Trump. A lot of my favorite people also voted for Harris. I try not to judge either side because both sides earnestly believe they are doing what is best for them, their family, and the country.
I don't think it ever helps to "other" a group of people.
posted by tacodave at 2:41 PM on November 6 [12 favorites]
There are a lot of people in this thread who are saying some variation of "those people are either stupid or evil or both". Try not to have that attitude.
(On preview- more or less what TacoDave said)
posted by ManInSuit at 3:10 PM on November 6 [6 favorites]
(On preview- more or less what TacoDave said)
posted by ManInSuit at 3:10 PM on November 6 [6 favorites]
I am exactly you. I took a mental health day today. I live in a red state and have very very close loved ones that voted for Trump, and knew they would. And I know them and they are not the evil incarnate themselves (though Trump is) - they respect women and women's independence and are good people and not idiots, who love and care for animals (stray cats!) yet they still voted that way (and likewise - they knew I would vote as I would). I have to second both tacodave and maninsuit - this total hated and refusing to acknowledging their hurting and fear is how we got here. They feel "the left" dismisses them as uneducated and idiots. And honestly, we have and that's not how you win hearts. I acknowledge they voted out of fear, and very honestly, in retrospect - Harris didn't qualm their fears. Period. If I'm honest with myself, I can understand their fears - unchecked immigration IS a problem. In my state I see effects very clearly. Not being able to afford housing IS a problem. The way forward is to understanding that they aren't actually crazy. And they saw change as the answer. And also, if we are honest with ourselves, Harris didn't win any primaries. Biden's hubris was a problem too.
So my way moving forward is empathy and love. And even here there are calls for "cut them off", but that helps nothing. Of what effort is it to only love who agrees with you? If loves win, and you believe that, then we have to live that.
posted by Saucywench at 3:33 PM on November 6 [2 favorites]
So my way moving forward is empathy and love. And even here there are calls for "cut them off", but that helps nothing. Of what effort is it to only love who agrees with you? If loves win, and you believe that, then we have to live that.
posted by Saucywench at 3:33 PM on November 6 [2 favorites]
You're asking for opinions. I have cut off certain friends and family years ago, and I'm 100% fine! In fact, I'm better off for having cut them off. You can cut off people who are not good fits for you and your life. It's a very big world full of lots of people.
Maybe you don't want to hear that, but you asked.
posted by SoberHighland at 4:09 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
Maybe you don't want to hear that, but you asked.
posted by SoberHighland at 4:09 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
I live in Missouri, where we passed Amendments guaranteeing access to legal abortion and raising the minimum wage as well as defeating an Amendment to give more money to the police.
At the same time, the state overwhelmingly elected a president, a senator, congressional representatives, and state officials who vehemently oppose these outcomes.
I have to focus on the first part to make it through the day.
posted by hworth at 4:16 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
At the same time, the state overwhelmingly elected a president, a senator, congressional representatives, and state officials who vehemently oppose these outcomes.
I have to focus on the first part to make it through the day.
posted by hworth at 4:16 PM on November 6 [1 favorite]
Well, the people whom I love the most, my partner and closest family and friends--immigrants, trans people, women, people of color--have been brutally attacked, weaponized, and otherized by one campaign for political and personal gain. And the outlook for our future is grim, to say the least. So, forgive me if I don't respond well to lectures that use the phrase "I don't think it ever helps to 'other' a group of people," as a defense for Trump voters.
posted by cursed at 4:28 PM on November 6
posted by cursed at 4:28 PM on November 6
The larger portion of my relatives voted for Trump and one thing I take away from them is that they don't believe most of what comes out of his mouth. In fact, in general I would say that the left takes his sales pitch a lot more seriously than any of my relatives do.
They think he's a huckster, and to my disappointment they're content to let someone like that take the presidency. But they're still the same people, they haven't disappeared down some twisted moral rabbit hole. They are the conservatives who I have disagreed with my whole life.
It does scare me that they've handed this much power to some people who really shouldn't have it, but I don't think for a moment they've bought into the hateful and xenophobic rhetoric. They think it's just things he said to get elected.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:36 PM on November 6 [3 favorites]
They think he's a huckster, and to my disappointment they're content to let someone like that take the presidency. But they're still the same people, they haven't disappeared down some twisted moral rabbit hole. They are the conservatives who I have disagreed with my whole life.
It does scare me that they've handed this much power to some people who really shouldn't have it, but I don't think for a moment they've bought into the hateful and xenophobic rhetoric. They think it's just things he said to get elected.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:36 PM on November 6 [3 favorites]
Let me tell you a story about a woman I know who votes conservative. She isn't the type of person I would self-select to be a friend, or even a friendly acquaintance — perhaps to my detriment! — because she's well-to-do, right-leaning, and very Christian. But I see her every week and have talked to her quite a bit because she's one of my medical providers.
Because I'm disabled, she charges me half of what she'd normally charge; every time I thank her, she says it's no big deal, and that, "Disabled people deserve every break they can get!" This saves me something like $3,000 dollars a year: that's an extra $3,000 a year she could be making, and actually now can't be making, because she's using her hours to treat me instead of other patients. She does a lot of volunteering. Donates a lot of money. She talks about how she's disappointed that certain social services, like disabled transit, fail disabled people, and has a fairly robust understanding of how that plays out because she listens carefully to her disabled patients. In her church, she's taken a stand for welcoming gay members of the community into the congregation, and into leadership positions, and was heartbroken and felt powerless and bewildered when the higher-up leadership blocked several of these things.
Whenever I've talked about the difficulties my trans friends are facing, she is genuinely sympathetic to the individual friend, interested in their life, and sad about their suffering, but sometimes expresses the concern-trolling talking points of the right-wing media — I read this as her being very responsive and caring to any unique individual she knows, but not recognizing the perils of the wider systemic discrimination going on.
Last time there was an election, I was talking about how conservative funding cuts impact the disabled community, and she expressed a lot of opinions along the lines of, "Of course I think everyone who needs disability income should have it! But don't you realize that the left-wing government will get us further into debt, whereas the conservatives will improve the economy so that we have more government funds to give social programs?" This coming from a person whose personality is very caring, motherly, and friendly, not at all a combative or hostile "debater:" normal people genuinely believe these things because the right-wing media repeats them over and over again.
I think that you really are right when you say, I truly believe they are good, kind, thoughtful people. Most of them probably are. But they are being lied to and duped by right-wing politicians, and not realizing the extent to which they're being lied to, because they believe we still live in a reasonable society in which no one would actually lie that much ... so some of the things they're saying must be true, right?
They don't realize the extent to which BIPOC, queer, disabled, immigrant, etc. minority groups are in very real danger, and think it must be exaggerated, because they don't really know that many, or the few that they know appear to be doing just fine. And so they vote with their worry and their fear, and their vote does not truly carry through their intentions about the kind of world they wish to live in.
This is not, of course, all people. Some people really are deep into right-wing ideology and have entire groups that they do not see as real people. But I find that most of the people I meet are like her: I could have several conversations with them not knowing they are right-wing, and get along with them just fine, because their day-to-day values of how to treat other human beings really are quite similar to mine. But because of their political/cultural education, their sociological and media literacy, and the demographics of people that make up their workplace, friends, and family, they are being fed a different set of facts, a different "reality."
This all makes me incredibly sad but also gives me bit of hope, and I hope it will bring some peace to you.
I live in Canada, so it's not the same, but I do live in one of the most right-leaning provinces. I really feel what you're going through. I am also surrounded by people I care about — who appear to care about me — who vote in one awful conservative government after another. Stay strong: sending love and sympathy.
posted by fire, water, earth, air at 4:59 PM on November 6 [4 favorites]
Because I'm disabled, she charges me half of what she'd normally charge; every time I thank her, she says it's no big deal, and that, "Disabled people deserve every break they can get!" This saves me something like $3,000 dollars a year: that's an extra $3,000 a year she could be making, and actually now can't be making, because she's using her hours to treat me instead of other patients. She does a lot of volunteering. Donates a lot of money. She talks about how she's disappointed that certain social services, like disabled transit, fail disabled people, and has a fairly robust understanding of how that plays out because she listens carefully to her disabled patients. In her church, she's taken a stand for welcoming gay members of the community into the congregation, and into leadership positions, and was heartbroken and felt powerless and bewildered when the higher-up leadership blocked several of these things.
Whenever I've talked about the difficulties my trans friends are facing, she is genuinely sympathetic to the individual friend, interested in their life, and sad about their suffering, but sometimes expresses the concern-trolling talking points of the right-wing media — I read this as her being very responsive and caring to any unique individual she knows, but not recognizing the perils of the wider systemic discrimination going on.
Last time there was an election, I was talking about how conservative funding cuts impact the disabled community, and she expressed a lot of opinions along the lines of, "Of course I think everyone who needs disability income should have it! But don't you realize that the left-wing government will get us further into debt, whereas the conservatives will improve the economy so that we have more government funds to give social programs?" This coming from a person whose personality is very caring, motherly, and friendly, not at all a combative or hostile "debater:" normal people genuinely believe these things because the right-wing media repeats them over and over again.
I think that you really are right when you say, I truly believe they are good, kind, thoughtful people. Most of them probably are. But they are being lied to and duped by right-wing politicians, and not realizing the extent to which they're being lied to, because they believe we still live in a reasonable society in which no one would actually lie that much ... so some of the things they're saying must be true, right?
They don't realize the extent to which BIPOC, queer, disabled, immigrant, etc. minority groups are in very real danger, and think it must be exaggerated, because they don't really know that many, or the few that they know appear to be doing just fine. And so they vote with their worry and their fear, and their vote does not truly carry through their intentions about the kind of world they wish to live in.
This is not, of course, all people. Some people really are deep into right-wing ideology and have entire groups that they do not see as real people. But I find that most of the people I meet are like her: I could have several conversations with them not knowing they are right-wing, and get along with them just fine, because their day-to-day values of how to treat other human beings really are quite similar to mine. But because of their political/cultural education, their sociological and media literacy, and the demographics of people that make up their workplace, friends, and family, they are being fed a different set of facts, a different "reality."
This all makes me incredibly sad but also gives me bit of hope, and I hope it will bring some peace to you.
I live in Canada, so it's not the same, but I do live in one of the most right-leaning provinces. I really feel what you're going through. I am also surrounded by people I care about — who appear to care about me — who vote in one awful conservative government after another. Stay strong: sending love and sympathy.
posted by fire, water, earth, air at 4:59 PM on November 6 [4 favorites]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
The only kind thing I have to say is that we are all hurting and afraid. And that's by design. I don't know why the right wing has gone this way but they are gone. Avoid these friends and family. Find the wider community that shares your values. Keep fighting the good fight.
posted by amanda at 1:14 PM on November 6 [2 favorites]