Workplace communication: My ears are tired
July 24, 2024 12:52 PM Subscribe
I WFH. My supervisor is a very high-context communicator. I am *generally* not, and I found myself getting very frustrated on a recent call with how they were 1) explaining something and 2) not hearing what I was saying without me repeating myself. I also find my ears and brain shutting down, and I'm terrified of missing what I actually need to hear. Any suggestions?
By high-context, I mean firehose of information, not all of which is relevant to the conversation at-hand. I generally do not have space to ask questions when they are relevant unless I interrupt them, which I don't like doing because I think it's rude. Our calls regularly run over-time and it can frequently take some time to get to the "agenda".
Further (imo) challenges:
1. They are highly intelligent and also work in spaces where being verbose is a positive.
2. They are on calls with other teammates and internal clients who often need that extra context for concepts that might be novel.
3. I am running out of brain and ear bandwidth to also listen to OhHaieSpouse (also a high-context communicator and one I'd rather prioritize), and OhHaieSpawn (<5yo) at the end of the workday.
4. I realize this has always been a limitation of mine -- one of my parents has a tendency to say the "same thing three times in three different ways" (yes, I've counted in some instances) and my sibling does not have a strong ability to filter their speech related to their ND diagnosis, and so I can get very anxious and on-edge in these situations, especially when there is only so much time for a shared communication to happen. I want time to talk as well, and I want to be able to remember what it was I wanted to say.
5. This is not limited to work talk, but to other topics that they have a personal or professional interest in. For example, if I say OhHaieSpawn is really into dirt right now, I will get a 10-15 minute monologue about dirt and soil types and statistics about dirt. I'd be fine with a quick thing, but sometimes these are topics where I'd like to lead the conversation or get my feelings out about the proverbial loam.
At a prior job, I would have a meeting agenda for a person like this, but I don't know how to approach that with this person. I tried telling them last year I'd prefer bullet point summaries of things, but they may have forgotten that. Should I try again? What do?
By high-context, I mean firehose of information, not all of which is relevant to the conversation at-hand. I generally do not have space to ask questions when they are relevant unless I interrupt them, which I don't like doing because I think it's rude. Our calls regularly run over-time and it can frequently take some time to get to the "agenda".
Further (imo) challenges:
1. They are highly intelligent and also work in spaces where being verbose is a positive.
2. They are on calls with other teammates and internal clients who often need that extra context for concepts that might be novel.
3. I am running out of brain and ear bandwidth to also listen to OhHaieSpouse (also a high-context communicator and one I'd rather prioritize), and OhHaieSpawn (<5yo) at the end of the workday.
4. I realize this has always been a limitation of mine -- one of my parents has a tendency to say the "same thing three times in three different ways" (yes, I've counted in some instances) and my sibling does not have a strong ability to filter their speech related to their ND diagnosis, and so I can get very anxious and on-edge in these situations, especially when there is only so much time for a shared communication to happen. I want time to talk as well, and I want to be able to remember what it was I wanted to say.
5. This is not limited to work talk, but to other topics that they have a personal or professional interest in. For example, if I say OhHaieSpawn is really into dirt right now, I will get a 10-15 minute monologue about dirt and soil types and statistics about dirt. I'd be fine with a quick thing, but sometimes these are topics where I'd like to lead the conversation or get my feelings out about the proverbial loam.
At a prior job, I would have a meeting agenda for a person like this, but I don't know how to approach that with this person. I tried telling them last year I'd prefer bullet point summaries of things, but they may have forgotten that. Should I try again? What do?
Maybe record the call, so you don't have to concentrate so hard for fear of missing things?
Then maybe respond with an email like "I came away from our chat with these four priorities, just checking if I missed anything, Thanks!"
posted by mmf at 1:15 PM on July 24, 2024 [3 favorites]
Then maybe respond with an email like "I came away from our chat with these four priorities, just checking if I missed anything, Thanks!"
posted by mmf at 1:15 PM on July 24, 2024 [3 favorites]
Not incredibly efficient, but you could record the calls, run through cheap AI transcriber like Rev, then ask ChatGPT or one of those to summarize the main points from the transcript?
posted by gottabefunky at 1:28 PM on July 24, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by gottabefunky at 1:28 PM on July 24, 2024 [1 favorite]
Do you find that "interrupting" them to get back on track leads to even more words or fewer?
posted by gottabefunky at 1:29 PM on July 24, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by gottabefunky at 1:29 PM on July 24, 2024 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You may find interrupting rude, but do they? Sometimes big talkers like this are from an "interrupter" type culture where they expect to be interrupted and may not be thinking about stopping talking to give you a chance to ask questions. If it were me, I'd try steering the conversation more.
posted by lookoutbelow at 1:59 PM on July 24, 2024 [24 favorites]
posted by lookoutbelow at 1:59 PM on July 24, 2024 [24 favorites]
Best answer: The particular type of role I work in, I have come to expect this type of communicator and accept that this is how they will communicate.
The story I tell myself about my boss's firehose of marginally-relevant (or even totally irrelevant) information is that "They are in the habit of explaining things to clients all the time, and to investors and such who know nothing about our work. It is normal for them to have to paint a very vivid broad picture and give loads of context, because that's what their audience usually needs. It's just a habit, they do not mean to impose on me personally or disrespect me personally, they are this way with everyone!"
With some other people, especially bigshot higher ups like my boss's bosses, the story I tell myself about their firehose of random info is: "They do not realize I already know all this, and/or I don't need to know all this. They probably don't know the exact parameters of my job. Also they cannot be expected to know what is inside my head. All they're doing is covering bases just in case I'm completely lost. It's nice of them to handle this potential issue so patiently and generously. Their time is worth a lot, and yet they're taking a lot of time to explain all this context to me."
Right now, you are telling yourself the story that, "Oh god, they're going to hold me prisoner just like my mother does and just like my sibling does. I wonder how long I will be trapped listening to this nonsense. WHY CAN'T THIS PERSON GET ON WITH IT AND JUST TELL ME THE CORE ESSENTIALS? They are so disrespectful and demanding! They are attention seekers with no self awareness!" etc etc. (Not saying you think these things exactly but it's likely in the ballpark.)
So my recommendation to you is that you try to change the story you are telling yourself about their behavior. Is that something you might be able to do? If you can, you'd feel less avoidant and thus find it a lot easier to pay attention. WHat ends up happening for me is that I try to listen for themes and central points relevant to me/my work and then highlight that once they have gone on for about half the meeting.
posted by MiraK at 2:21 PM on July 24, 2024 [15 favorites]
The story I tell myself about my boss's firehose of marginally-relevant (or even totally irrelevant) information is that "They are in the habit of explaining things to clients all the time, and to investors and such who know nothing about our work. It is normal for them to have to paint a very vivid broad picture and give loads of context, because that's what their audience usually needs. It's just a habit, they do not mean to impose on me personally or disrespect me personally, they are this way with everyone!"
With some other people, especially bigshot higher ups like my boss's bosses, the story I tell myself about their firehose of random info is: "They do not realize I already know all this, and/or I don't need to know all this. They probably don't know the exact parameters of my job. Also they cannot be expected to know what is inside my head. All they're doing is covering bases just in case I'm completely lost. It's nice of them to handle this potential issue so patiently and generously. Their time is worth a lot, and yet they're taking a lot of time to explain all this context to me."
Right now, you are telling yourself the story that, "Oh god, they're going to hold me prisoner just like my mother does and just like my sibling does. I wonder how long I will be trapped listening to this nonsense. WHY CAN'T THIS PERSON GET ON WITH IT AND JUST TELL ME THE CORE ESSENTIALS? They are so disrespectful and demanding! They are attention seekers with no self awareness!" etc etc. (Not saying you think these things exactly but it's likely in the ballpark.)
So my recommendation to you is that you try to change the story you are telling yourself about their behavior. Is that something you might be able to do? If you can, you'd feel less avoidant and thus find it a lot easier to pay attention. WHat ends up happening for me is that I try to listen for themes and central points relevant to me/my work and then highlight that once they have gone on for about half the meeting.
posted by MiraK at 2:21 PM on July 24, 2024 [15 favorites]
I had a boss like this in a big way. Didn't bother me, per se, but one key part of my strategy was to be sure I knew in my head what questions I needed answered. If I knew what those were at the start of the meeting I would often lay them out explicitly ("Things I need to leave knowing today are . . . ")
Whether or not I'd done it at the beginning, five or ten minutes before the end I felt it was fine to refocus: "We're almost out of time, I need to make sure I understand X, can we review that . . . " The time pressure made the interruption OK and sometimes got me a clearer answer.
In addition, there's an art to asking questions the right way to get an answer, but it's very individual. Try finding out what it is for your boss. What worked with my particular boss for things I wanted a quick "yes, you're on the right track" answer was usually, when they finished (or just slowed down) talking, describing what I thought where his communicated goals, combined with the approach I'd take, in a sentence or two.
posted by mark k at 2:22 PM on July 24, 2024 [6 favorites]
Whether or not I'd done it at the beginning, five or ten minutes before the end I felt it was fine to refocus: "We're almost out of time, I need to make sure I understand X, can we review that . . . " The time pressure made the interruption OK and sometimes got me a clearer answer.
In addition, there's an art to asking questions the right way to get an answer, but it's very individual. Try finding out what it is for your boss. What worked with my particular boss for things I wanted a quick "yes, you're on the right track" answer was usually, when they finished (or just slowed down) talking, describing what I thought where his communicated goals, combined with the approach I'd take, in a sentence or two.
posted by mark k at 2:22 PM on July 24, 2024 [6 favorites]
You think interrupting is rude, but you also think your boss is being rude by failing to leave space for you to talk. Get off this particular high horse and experiment: how do they respond to interruption? In some conversational styles, interrupting is how you show engagement, interest, understanding, and agreement. Someone who sits there silently listening is like an audience at a stand up set that refuses to laugh - this can even produce anxiety in the speaker and make them spin their conversational wheels even faster. See if interrupting can make you a better though partner to your boss. Maybe they will hate it and it won't work, that's fine. But you need to at least try to mirror their style a little bit and see if it helps.
posted by Ausamor at 2:31 PM on July 24, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by Ausamor at 2:31 PM on July 24, 2024 [3 favorites]
Is this during a one-on-one where you could maybe say, like, "Hey, I jotted down a few questions earlier so I wouldn't forget them--can we run through these first?" and then screenshare questions that you can edit and update, literally highlighting any point you want to focus on and noting the actual answer you don't want to miss?
posted by Wobbuffet at 2:36 PM on July 24, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Wobbuffet at 2:36 PM on July 24, 2024 [1 favorite]
I'd prefer bullet point summaries of things... What do?
• take notes
• share summary
• confirm priorities
what MiraK said (& i appreciate, as i have a similar work experience) summarized
posted by HearHere at 3:04 PM on July 24, 2024
• take notes
• share summary
• confirm priorities
what MiraK said (& i appreciate, as i have a similar work experience) summarized
posted by HearHere at 3:04 PM on July 24, 2024
Also consider sending a bullet point list yourself before the meeting. Then you have a written thing to refer to if your questions aren’t getting answered.
Even short written points can also communicate that you already have certain background knowledge too, so they may cut down on the braindump tendencies.
posted by nat at 3:41 PM on July 24, 2024
Even short written points can also communicate that you already have certain background knowledge too, so they may cut down on the braindump tendencies.
posted by nat at 3:41 PM on July 24, 2024
Best answer: Some thoughts:
You said you asked them for bullet points last year. Did that work for a while?
You may find interrupting rude, but do they?
That's what I was wondering, and I agree with the suggestion to experiment.
Another experiment would be to just tell your supervisor straight out that your style of thinking is top-down instead of bottom-up: Some people need to start with context and details and eventually build towards the actual point, but the way your brain works is you need to start with the main point and only bring in context or details to clarify things you don't understand. That way you can build a clear structure in your head. (Maybe this is what you meant by asking for bullet points?)
If they're the type of person who's open to acting on this, you might even be able to try having these calls while looking at a shared document together, where they say some stuff, you write down what you think their point is, interrupt to say "this is what I'm getting here, is that right?" and so on. I've had some luck getting people to focus on (...or discover) their actual points that way - and by repeatedly reminding them that they've gotten off topic, or that I need to know first of all why they're telling me [random things whose connection is clear in their own head but not mine]. "Do I need to know about this?" and "Why are you telling me this" are two questions I've basically trained a few people to expect at this point, and I frame it as helping me to organize the information in my head so I can understand what's important. My ability to get them to identify a coherent structure behind their often stream-of-consciousness thoughts is something they actually appreciate, so this works. YMMV.
This is not limited to work talk, but to other topics that they have a personal or professional interest in. For example, if I say OhHaieSpawn is really into dirt right now, I will get a 10-15 minute monologue about dirt and soil types and statistics about dirt. I'd be fine with a quick thing, but sometimes these are topics where I'd like to lead the conversation or get my feelings out about the proverbial loam
Yeah, I think the choices here are to either accept your role as audience rather than conversation partner, or discover if they're actually perfectly happy to be interrupted in very straightforward ways ("wait, that's very interesting, but I'm telling you this because I want to vent about loam!" Said with humor/affection, ideally.)
I am running out of brain and ear bandwidth to also listen to OhHaieSpouse (also a high-context communicator and one I'd rather prioritize), and OhHaieSpawn
Do you have some time to yourself to decompress before switching from work mode to home mode?
posted by trig at 4:58 PM on July 24, 2024 [2 favorites]
You said you asked them for bullet points last year. Did that work for a while?
You may find interrupting rude, but do they?
That's what I was wondering, and I agree with the suggestion to experiment.
Another experiment would be to just tell your supervisor straight out that your style of thinking is top-down instead of bottom-up: Some people need to start with context and details and eventually build towards the actual point, but the way your brain works is you need to start with the main point and only bring in context or details to clarify things you don't understand. That way you can build a clear structure in your head. (Maybe this is what you meant by asking for bullet points?)
If they're the type of person who's open to acting on this, you might even be able to try having these calls while looking at a shared document together, where they say some stuff, you write down what you think their point is, interrupt to say "this is what I'm getting here, is that right?" and so on. I've had some luck getting people to focus on (...or discover) their actual points that way - and by repeatedly reminding them that they've gotten off topic, or that I need to know first of all why they're telling me [random things whose connection is clear in their own head but not mine]. "Do I need to know about this?" and "Why are you telling me this" are two questions I've basically trained a few people to expect at this point, and I frame it as helping me to organize the information in my head so I can understand what's important. My ability to get them to identify a coherent structure behind their often stream-of-consciousness thoughts is something they actually appreciate, so this works. YMMV.
This is not limited to work talk, but to other topics that they have a personal or professional interest in. For example, if I say OhHaieSpawn is really into dirt right now, I will get a 10-15 minute monologue about dirt and soil types and statistics about dirt. I'd be fine with a quick thing, but sometimes these are topics where I'd like to lead the conversation or get my feelings out about the proverbial loam
Yeah, I think the choices here are to either accept your role as audience rather than conversation partner, or discover if they're actually perfectly happy to be interrupted in very straightforward ways ("wait, that's very interesting, but I'm telling you this because I want to vent about loam!" Said with humor/affection, ideally.)
I am running out of brain and ear bandwidth to also listen to OhHaieSpouse (also a high-context communicator and one I'd rather prioritize), and OhHaieSpawn
Do you have some time to yourself to decompress before switching from work mode to home mode?
posted by trig at 4:58 PM on July 24, 2024 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Does any of this resonate with how they talk? As the article notes this is not specific to Jewish people, though this conversational style is commonly recognized in Jewish New Yorkers. I am not Jewish but have this conversational style and find myself doing exactly what Ausamor describes—if no one is jumping in on the conversation, I will get anxious that I am not being understood or rapport is low so I will re-explain and start jumping on tangents to find something, ANYTHING you will respond to instead of just staring silently at me while I talk.
I am a supervisor and I do have techniques for managing my own anxiety and making space for people who do not have this conversational style. But it is a much more engaging and productive conversation when people are willing to jump in and interrupt, and I agree that trying to reflect their conversational style at least a little bit may help.
You could also be explicit about your conversational style and that you need to be invited to ask questions or make comments because you find interrupting rude. Though I suspect that sort of directness might be considered rude in your conversational style as well? But could be an option.
posted by brook horse at 5:01 PM on July 24, 2024 [4 favorites]
I am a supervisor and I do have techniques for managing my own anxiety and making space for people who do not have this conversational style. But it is a much more engaging and productive conversation when people are willing to jump in and interrupt, and I agree that trying to reflect their conversational style at least a little bit may help.
You could also be explicit about your conversational style and that you need to be invited to ask questions or make comments because you find interrupting rude. Though I suspect that sort of directness might be considered rude in your conversational style as well? But could be an option.
posted by brook horse at 5:01 PM on July 24, 2024 [4 favorites]
Not sure who is scheduling these meetings but if you can, make them short, no shorter than that. That forces you to state what you need inputs on and them to stay on point.
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:39 PM on July 24, 2024
posted by koahiatamadl at 5:39 PM on July 24, 2024
"which I don't like doing because I think it's rude"
you have got to work on this, and when you get to a point where you feel comfortable also break in to say "in order to respect everyone's time, we have 10 minutes left on this call, are there any last minute details before we go?"
posted by alchemist at 9:10 PM on July 24, 2024
you have got to work on this, and when you get to a point where you feel comfortable also break in to say "in order to respect everyone's time, we have 10 minutes left on this call, are there any last minute details before we go?"
posted by alchemist at 9:10 PM on July 24, 2024
Does the platform you use allow you to make the most of recording, transcription or AI?
If you use Teams, Copilot does a really great job of summarising meetings.
If you don't have access to Teams/Copilot but can create a transcription, you could use some other AI to help you summarise. But even if you cannot use AI to summarize, having that recording or transcription might take some weight off your shoulders.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 12:02 AM on July 25, 2024
If you use Teams, Copilot does a really great job of summarising meetings.
If you don't have access to Teams/Copilot but can create a transcription, you could use some other AI to help you summarise. But even if you cannot use AI to summarize, having that recording or transcription might take some weight off your shoulders.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 12:02 AM on July 25, 2024
No, there isn’t a way to get these people to stop, listen or anything close to either. I think you should forget about hoping to be heard aurally and communicate key work-related points by email. When you get a call, immediately say “just a heads up, I have something booked at [whatever time, some point before you expect you’ll get that drowning in someone else’s vibe/nauseous feeling]” and remind them five minutes before that time that you’ve got this thing. It’s ok to set a boundary to stop that kind of energy transfer, supervisor or no.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:32 AM on July 25, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:32 AM on July 25, 2024 [1 favorite]
I generally do not have space to ask questions when they are relevant unless I interrupt them
This can happen with my boss and I (although it definitely is on a smaller scale and is much better now that her schedule is back to normal). It happens less on a video rather than a true phone call, since she gets the visual cue I have something to say. So if you can move to video chat (if you aren't already), maybe that would help?
Sometimes, especially in a group meeting, it's better if I write down my thoughts as they pop in my head, then I can bring them back up at the next conversational pause or in a follow up email.
Do you have a good audio set up? Ideally headphones/headset that attenuates noise around you (if you can safely do that) and provides audio to both ears at a good volume: we recommend to people with hearing loss to listen with both ears on the phone whenever they can, but it's helpful even if you don't have hearing loss. Even if I don't have my headphones handy, I'll make sure I take my video calls on the computer that has the better audio set up vs the one that's got wimpy/bad speakers. It's so much better when I can hear easily vs having to strain and concentrate on processing what was said to understand it.
I will still send emails following up on our conversations, especially if we ran out of time. My boss is really responsive to email though, so that's a definite ymmv. With us at least, it's a helpful method to make sure neither of us missed or forgot to mention something.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:52 AM on July 26, 2024
This can happen with my boss and I (although it definitely is on a smaller scale and is much better now that her schedule is back to normal). It happens less on a video rather than a true phone call, since she gets the visual cue I have something to say. So if you can move to video chat (if you aren't already), maybe that would help?
Sometimes, especially in a group meeting, it's better if I write down my thoughts as they pop in my head, then I can bring them back up at the next conversational pause or in a follow up email.
Do you have a good audio set up? Ideally headphones/headset that attenuates noise around you (if you can safely do that) and provides audio to both ears at a good volume: we recommend to people with hearing loss to listen with both ears on the phone whenever they can, but it's helpful even if you don't have hearing loss. Even if I don't have my headphones handy, I'll make sure I take my video calls on the computer that has the better audio set up vs the one that's got wimpy/bad speakers. It's so much better when I can hear easily vs having to strain and concentrate on processing what was said to understand it.
I will still send emails following up on our conversations, especially if we ran out of time. My boss is really responsive to email though, so that's a definite ymmv. With us at least, it's a helpful method to make sure neither of us missed or forgot to mention something.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:52 AM on July 26, 2024
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone, for your ideas! I think it'll be a lot easier for me to both focus AND use some of these strategies when I'm less sleep-deprived (both Spawn- and self-inflicted).
Gottabefunky, interrupting has no impact on word count afaik.
MiraK, thanks for putting some of my thoughts into words. That describes my situation pretty well; I'm the newest team member by a number of years and they're not used to having someone with my particular flavor of experience, skill set, and brain-type on the team. At least, I don't think they are.
Brook horse, YOU'VE JUST GIVEN ME DECADES OF CONTEXT FOR SOME FAMILY MEMBERS. Wow.
Trig, thanks for some additional terms to describe how my brain works! Decompress time is limited and depends on the day. If I have a call that's right before I need to pick up OhHaieSpawn from daycare, no. Or if it's a day I'm running around to try and get some pre-evening routine chores done. Spouse and I are still learning what routine and labor division is a good fit right now ... As my therapist says, "no problem stays solved" at Spawn's current age, so we're at what I call the pasta test stage -- throwing things up on the wall to see what sticks. Maybe some mental reframing is in order.
posted by OhHaieThere at 6:22 AM on July 28, 2024
Gottabefunky, interrupting has no impact on word count afaik.
MiraK, thanks for putting some of my thoughts into words. That describes my situation pretty well; I'm the newest team member by a number of years and they're not used to having someone with my particular flavor of experience, skill set, and brain-type on the team. At least, I don't think they are.
Brook horse, YOU'VE JUST GIVEN ME DECADES OF CONTEXT FOR SOME FAMILY MEMBERS. Wow.
Trig, thanks for some additional terms to describe how my brain works! Decompress time is limited and depends on the day. If I have a call that's right before I need to pick up OhHaieSpawn from daycare, no. Or if it's a day I'm running around to try and get some pre-evening routine chores done. Spouse and I are still learning what routine and labor division is a good fit right now ... As my therapist says, "no problem stays solved" at Spawn's current age, so we're at what I call the pasta test stage -- throwing things up on the wall to see what sticks. Maybe some mental reframing is in order.
posted by OhHaieThere at 6:22 AM on July 28, 2024
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posted by OhHaieThere at 12:57 PM on July 24, 2024