What are the minimum reuirements for a casual friendship?
July 11, 2024 7:00 PM Subscribe
I know that connections always have some elements of imperfection, but I'm struggling to figure out the line between imperfection and lack of platonic compatibility. I don't want to be so picky with friendships that I'm lonely, but I also want to be aligned with the people in my life. Any suggestions for how to determine whether a person is an imperfect connection or one that doesn't meet minimum friendship standards?
I'm going through a hard time and really need a friend. I want to reach out to a person I've lost touch with, but I'm torn about it because I'm torn about them as a person.
They have a good heart but are undeveloped in some ways for their age--it's kind of hard to describe. Just a sense of immaturity in humor and comments here and there. I've noticed they unintentionally offend people a bit (including me) and have an inflated self-image (in *some* ways). But we connect in our general temperaments and how we enjoy spending our time.
I want to do right by this person and be positive in their life if I'm going to be in it. I don't want to reestablish contact with them if I can't be that for them. Any suggestions for how to determine whether this is just an imperfect, good-enough connection or one that doesn't meet the minimum friendship standards?
I'm going through a hard time and really need a friend. I want to reach out to a person I've lost touch with, but I'm torn about it because I'm torn about them as a person.
They have a good heart but are undeveloped in some ways for their age--it's kind of hard to describe. Just a sense of immaturity in humor and comments here and there. I've noticed they unintentionally offend people a bit (including me) and have an inflated self-image (in *some* ways). But we connect in our general temperaments and how we enjoy spending our time.
I want to do right by this person and be positive in their life if I'm going to be in it. I don't want to reestablish contact with them if I can't be that for them. Any suggestions for how to determine whether this is just an imperfect, good-enough connection or one that doesn't meet the minimum friendship standards?
Any suggestions for how to determine whether a person is an imperfect connection or one that doesn't meet minimum friendship standards?
My baseline for an acquaintance worth investing energy in is whether or not I continue to exist in their world after I leave the room. That wasn’t always the case, and in fact for a long time I preferred people who were just good company with no more involvement than that. But these days I want to be in someone’s thoughts, even if it’s just to wish me happy birthday.
Above that it depends on how much I enjoy the person’s company, what they are good at emotionally, and how much their values match mine. Finding someone who rates as excellent in all of those categories is very rare.
And of course, that includes me and what I bring to the table. I mesh well with some people and not so well with others, but in all cases I try to bring my best self. If it’s not a good match, then it’s not a good match.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:06 PM on July 11 [6 favorites]
My baseline for an acquaintance worth investing energy in is whether or not I continue to exist in their world after I leave the room. That wasn’t always the case, and in fact for a long time I preferred people who were just good company with no more involvement than that. But these days I want to be in someone’s thoughts, even if it’s just to wish me happy birthday.
Above that it depends on how much I enjoy the person’s company, what they are good at emotionally, and how much their values match mine. Finding someone who rates as excellent in all of those categories is very rare.
And of course, that includes me and what I bring to the table. I mesh well with some people and not so well with others, but in all cases I try to bring my best self. If it’s not a good match, then it’s not a good match.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:06 PM on July 11 [6 favorites]
if you spend time with them and feel more energetic than you were to start, that is a good thing.
...if you feel more tired, or worn, after dealing with them then that is a bad thing.
Words of advice for young people
posted by flabdablet at 11:11 PM on July 11 [2 favorites]
...if you feel more tired, or worn, after dealing with them then that is a bad thing.
Words of advice for young people
posted by flabdablet at 11:11 PM on July 11 [2 favorites]
My minimum bar for friendship is that the relationship needs to make life better for both people. Friendships don't need to be fully "balanced" as that is often impossible, but as long as the relationship is overall good for both people it's worth building and keeping that friendship.
The positives of a friendship can include the "energy" from hanging out like described above, but it can also come from all sorts of things like having someone to talk to when you need it, or being exposed to fun social opportunities. Friendships don't work out when one side of it feels emotionally drained, because then it's not good for both people even if it's great for one.
So, if you think you could help the other person, they would welcome your help, and you would feel better by having the relationship, go for it! Of course you can't predict 100% if it's going to work out, because you haven't seen the person in a while. Maybe they've matured more and will be easier to get along with, or maybe they've gotten worse and will be an emotional drain. The only way to know is to meet up with them and see how it goes. Reaching out to an old friend is not a long term commitment, you can just set up a one-time event and see how it goes from there.
posted by JZig at 11:12 PM on July 11 [1 favorite]
The positives of a friendship can include the "energy" from hanging out like described above, but it can also come from all sorts of things like having someone to talk to when you need it, or being exposed to fun social opportunities. Friendships don't work out when one side of it feels emotionally drained, because then it's not good for both people even if it's great for one.
So, if you think you could help the other person, they would welcome your help, and you would feel better by having the relationship, go for it! Of course you can't predict 100% if it's going to work out, because you haven't seen the person in a while. Maybe they've matured more and will be easier to get along with, or maybe they've gotten worse and will be an emotional drain. The only way to know is to meet up with them and see how it goes. Reaching out to an old friend is not a long term commitment, you can just set up a one-time event and see how it goes from there.
posted by JZig at 11:12 PM on July 11 [1 favorite]
Minimum friendship standards:
* You have at least ONE setting or environment or topic
- That you have time for
- In which you can hang out, while feeling like you had a pleasant time (good energy) at the time
- That you don't spend more time ruminating negatively about afterwards than how long you actually hung out for (if you ruminate about everyone, then that's something to work on in therapy, but again, that oiiiiiioii8oiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiverall it's not an energy drain)
* That if they *are* draining in other environments/settings
- that you have the option of opting entirely out of those environments
So, you might have a casual friend who you play board games with at a board game cafe. But they're an alcoholic, and a mean drunk. As long as everyone knows and abides
posted by Elysum at 1:46 AM on July 12 [2 favorites]
* You have at least ONE setting or environment or topic
- That you have time for
- In which you can hang out, while feeling like you had a pleasant time (good energy) at the time
- That you don't spend more time ruminating negatively about afterwards than how long you actually hung out for (if you ruminate about everyone, then that's something to work on in therapy, but again, that oiiiiiioii8oiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiverall it's not an energy drain)
* That if they *are* draining in other environments/settings
- that you have the option of opting entirely out of those environments
So, you might have a casual friend who you play board games with at a board game cafe. But they're an alcoholic, and a mean drunk. As long as everyone knows and abides
posted by Elysum at 1:46 AM on July 12 [2 favorites]
I'm going through a hard time and really need a friend. I want to reach out to a person I've lost touch with
While I would 2nd all of the above, this gives me pause. It sounds as if you are looking for a more meaningful/close/supportive friendship during your hard times. That's a very normal want when things are difficult and even when not.
But I am not sure that reconnecting with somebody you feel a bit ambivalent about to start out with would give you that. If you have not been in touch with them for a long time you'd have to start slow and re-establish more casual contact. To (re?)-build a more meaningful connection would probably take a bit of time and would absolutely require the various criteria people have shared to be met.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:44 AM on July 12 [8 favorites]
While I would 2nd all of the above, this gives me pause. It sounds as if you are looking for a more meaningful/close/supportive friendship during your hard times. That's a very normal want when things are difficult and even when not.
But I am not sure that reconnecting with somebody you feel a bit ambivalent about to start out with would give you that. If you have not been in touch with them for a long time you'd have to start slow and re-establish more casual contact. To (re?)-build a more meaningful connection would probably take a bit of time and would absolutely require the various criteria people have shared to be met.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:44 AM on July 12 [8 favorites]
If I followed aramaic’s advice, I would have no friends and I wouldn't even spend time with my family. Being around people is exhausting for me, but in a rewarding way. It will never be “energizing” because I'm not an extrovert. Some people will always need time alone to recover after being around other people. Don't go dropping your friends because they don't “energize” you.
posted by wheatlets at 3:12 AM on July 12 [14 favorites]
posted by wheatlets at 3:12 AM on July 12 [14 favorites]
My minimum requirements for staying in touch:
- I don't mind being associated with them in public
- interactions make me feel better rather than worse more often than not (although I try to take a really long view on that; sometimes people go through difficult times, where they will be a drag on the mood for a while, and I think that's okay too)
- interactions seem to make them feel better rather than worse more often than not - I do need some minimum indication that they actually appreciate my company, some degree of reciprocality (eg. reaching out to me as well, returning a compliment, returning a favour, showing interest in my activities, laughing at my jokes, asking me for advice/recommendations/opinions)
- they haven't yet betrayed my trust
That's not necessarily friendship level yet (it might take a bit more till I feel comfortable sharing deep dark secrets, hopes and dreams, etc.), but I also value casual aquaintances. Sure they might not yet meet a deeper need for connection, and it might take a while to deepen the relationship until one gets there - but it usually takes longer to build one from scratch! The time passes anyway. If you don't already have intimate friends you'd rather spend time with, you have very little opportunity costs.
My minimum requirements for deepening a relationship:
- they have at least some characteristic I genuinely admire, something I'd want to learn from them, something I wouldn't mind rubbing of on me. But something like that might often take a while to become apparent! You sometimes need to spend a fair amount of time with people till you get to see that side of them.
Maybe the person in question doesn't have that, and you don't want to rekindle a connection you can already see you have no interest in deepening. My impression it that your fear here is less about wasting time and energy on something that might not yield a return on investment, but rather about raising expectations you won't be able to meet, getting someone's hopes up, being a disappointment.
I feel you, that's why I might have missed the occasional shot at romance. I also hate the idea of playing with someone's heart. That said, the stakes in friendship are usually considered lower, and while some might lament that as a sign of not giving friendship its due weight, I actually think that's good. Fear of disappointing can be just as crippling as fear of disappointment, and from a certain perspective, disappointment is not the worst thing in the world, it's an inevitable part of life.
And while romance conventionally comes with an idea of exclusivity, friendship thankfully doesn't! If one friend disappoints you, you'll ideally have other friends to help you get over that. Maybe that person you're so afraid of potentially disappointing has a fairly fulfilling social life already, might still welcome an opportunity to rekindle your friendship, but might not be too crushed if nothing comes of it after all! Maybe they'd be carefully content to keep things on the casual aquaintanceship level, it is shakes out like that, because they, like me, also value casual aquaintances!
posted by sohalt at 3:52 AM on July 12 [1 favorite]
- I don't mind being associated with them in public
- interactions make me feel better rather than worse more often than not (although I try to take a really long view on that; sometimes people go through difficult times, where they will be a drag on the mood for a while, and I think that's okay too)
- interactions seem to make them feel better rather than worse more often than not - I do need some minimum indication that they actually appreciate my company, some degree of reciprocality (eg. reaching out to me as well, returning a compliment, returning a favour, showing interest in my activities, laughing at my jokes, asking me for advice/recommendations/opinions)
- they haven't yet betrayed my trust
That's not necessarily friendship level yet (it might take a bit more till I feel comfortable sharing deep dark secrets, hopes and dreams, etc.), but I also value casual aquaintances. Sure they might not yet meet a deeper need for connection, and it might take a while to deepen the relationship until one gets there - but it usually takes longer to build one from scratch! The time passes anyway. If you don't already have intimate friends you'd rather spend time with, you have very little opportunity costs.
My minimum requirements for deepening a relationship:
- they have at least some characteristic I genuinely admire, something I'd want to learn from them, something I wouldn't mind rubbing of on me. But something like that might often take a while to become apparent! You sometimes need to spend a fair amount of time with people till you get to see that side of them.
Maybe the person in question doesn't have that, and you don't want to rekindle a connection you can already see you have no interest in deepening. My impression it that your fear here is less about wasting time and energy on something that might not yield a return on investment, but rather about raising expectations you won't be able to meet, getting someone's hopes up, being a disappointment.
I feel you, that's why I might have missed the occasional shot at romance. I also hate the idea of playing with someone's heart. That said, the stakes in friendship are usually considered lower, and while some might lament that as a sign of not giving friendship its due weight, I actually think that's good. Fear of disappointing can be just as crippling as fear of disappointment, and from a certain perspective, disappointment is not the worst thing in the world, it's an inevitable part of life.
And while romance conventionally comes with an idea of exclusivity, friendship thankfully doesn't! If one friend disappoints you, you'll ideally have other friends to help you get over that. Maybe that person you're so afraid of potentially disappointing has a fairly fulfilling social life already, might still welcome an opportunity to rekindle your friendship, but might not be too crushed if nothing comes of it after all! Maybe they'd be carefully content to keep things on the casual aquaintanceship level, it is shakes out like that, because they, like me, also value casual aquaintances!
posted by sohalt at 3:52 AM on July 12 [1 favorite]
I don’t know if you can figure this out without reconnecting. You have not been in contact with this person for a while, they might not respond, they might have changed, etc...
To answer your question, a friend needs to be someone who doesn’t cause me to feel bad about myself. More positively, a friend needs to value me as a person and like me.
A flawed person can be a decent friend. Friendships can ebb and flow, and you aren't committing to anything by sending a text or whatever. If you are lonely, I think it is worth reaching out.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 5:20 AM on July 12 [1 favorite]
To answer your question, a friend needs to be someone who doesn’t cause me to feel bad about myself. More positively, a friend needs to value me as a person and like me.
A flawed person can be a decent friend. Friendships can ebb and flow, and you aren't committing to anything by sending a text or whatever. If you are lonely, I think it is worth reaching out.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 5:20 AM on July 12 [1 favorite]
I want to do right by this person and be positive in their life if I'm going to be in it. I don't want to reestablish contact with them if I can't be that for them.
So- I think this is admirable, but also it seems like a high bar right now and might be what's holding you back. Casual friendships can be a lot lower-key than this! Suppose you get in touch, you hang out a couple times, you realize that they've gotten worse, or you've changed and are more annoyed by them, or whatever. So you decide to fade the relationship again. Is that the sort of thing you're worried about? because it could definitely happen- and I want to insist that this would be a totally fine outcome. You wondered if this person might be worth reconnecting with; you gave it a good try but you don't really get on; you go your separate ways. Heck, maybe this person will feel the same!
In other words, I would try to deemphasize the idea of whether you're going to be a net positive. Casual friendships can be so casual that nobody is thinking in these terms. And if this other person decides that you're not a positive for them, they can end it themselves, right? Worrying about this seems like putting the cart before the horse.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:35 AM on July 12 [5 favorites]
So- I think this is admirable, but also it seems like a high bar right now and might be what's holding you back. Casual friendships can be a lot lower-key than this! Suppose you get in touch, you hang out a couple times, you realize that they've gotten worse, or you've changed and are more annoyed by them, or whatever. So you decide to fade the relationship again. Is that the sort of thing you're worried about? because it could definitely happen- and I want to insist that this would be a totally fine outcome. You wondered if this person might be worth reconnecting with; you gave it a good try but you don't really get on; you go your separate ways. Heck, maybe this person will feel the same!
In other words, I would try to deemphasize the idea of whether you're going to be a net positive. Casual friendships can be so casual that nobody is thinking in these terms. And if this other person decides that you're not a positive for them, they can end it themselves, right? Worrying about this seems like putting the cart before the horse.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:35 AM on July 12 [5 favorites]
I'm going through a hard time and really need a friend. I want to reach out to a person I've lost touch with, but I'm torn about it because I'm torn about them as a person.
To me, this isn't casual friendship. In my mind, casual friends are people you see situationally. Friends of friends that you see at larger friend group things, people you play sports with, people you hang out with occasionally because you both like thrash metal and none of your other friends do. If you are reaching out for personal support, that is more than casual friendship. Doesn't mean you can't reach out to this person for that kind of support, but if you're questioning whether you want to be casual friends with them, you should really be questioning whether you want to be close friends with them.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:56 AM on July 12 [13 favorites]
To me, this isn't casual friendship. In my mind, casual friends are people you see situationally. Friends of friends that you see at larger friend group things, people you play sports with, people you hang out with occasionally because you both like thrash metal and none of your other friends do. If you are reaching out for personal support, that is more than casual friendship. Doesn't mean you can't reach out to this person for that kind of support, but if you're questioning whether you want to be casual friends with them, you should really be questioning whether you want to be close friends with them.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:56 AM on July 12 [13 favorites]
I have to agree that it doesn’t sound like you are looking for a casual friend. Honestly, I think the support of a hotline or something a little less personal might be what to aim for here. They are ideal if you need to be the taker for a little while (and don’t have that kind of credit already built up with someone).
To me, a casual friend is someone who, to extent I know them and to the extent we interact, is completely fine. Also, they seem to like me okay. Finally, I have known them for long enough that I feel like I can confidently say that they are fine to the extent that I know them. Usually this is like a few months.
Casual friends actually can be very helpful during a hard time. They can provide the kind of low-key positive social interaction that is really good for preventing loneliness. Because you’re not close, you can get away from your problems a bit when you talk to them. They can often provide practical support that is not a huge deal but that is helpful and convenient.
Ultimately, if you were looking to have a deep conversation with someone, I wouldn’t have it with a casual friend. That doesn’t mean they can’t be great friends, it’s just a different type of relationship.
posted by knobknosher at 8:31 AM on July 12 [2 favorites]
To me, a casual friend is someone who, to extent I know them and to the extent we interact, is completely fine. Also, they seem to like me okay. Finally, I have known them for long enough that I feel like I can confidently say that they are fine to the extent that I know them. Usually this is like a few months.
Casual friends actually can be very helpful during a hard time. They can provide the kind of low-key positive social interaction that is really good for preventing loneliness. Because you’re not close, you can get away from your problems a bit when you talk to them. They can often provide practical support that is not a huge deal but that is helpful and convenient.
Ultimately, if you were looking to have a deep conversation with someone, I wouldn’t have it with a casual friend. That doesn’t mean they can’t be great friends, it’s just a different type of relationship.
posted by knobknosher at 8:31 AM on July 12 [2 favorites]
My minimum requirement is that I enjoy their company, think of them fondly and generally look forward to spending time with them. I have a lot of very casual friendships, people I might see two or three times a year, and spend a few hours with. I also have some very close friends and some good work friends. I am not very good at keeping in touch so new friends tend to drift to one of those two extremes over time.
posted by plonkee at 10:39 AM on July 12
posted by plonkee at 10:39 AM on July 12
Personally, I've decided my life goes better if I don't worry too much about stuff like this. To me, it's very simple: do I want to talk to this person? Then reach out, but realize that that's only your part. They get to decide if they want to talk to you or not, and you shouldn't take it personally or feel like it reflects your worth as a person. (This is more the kind of problem I tend to have rather than what you expressed.)
More specifically to what you posted, I don't think you should make yourself responsible for deciding if you are a good influence on them. I think they get to decide if they want you in their life or not, and it's kinda presumptuous to make that decision for them.
But! Don't reconnect with somebody just to dump a lot of difficult stuff on them, that's not fair to them.
So, in conclusion: if you think that having a casual chat with this person would be a good thing for you, then reach out, but don't be offended if they don't respond, and don't trauma dump on them.
posted by elizabot at 11:46 AM on July 12 [3 favorites]
More specifically to what you posted, I don't think you should make yourself responsible for deciding if you are a good influence on them. I think they get to decide if they want you in their life or not, and it's kinda presumptuous to make that decision for them.
But! Don't reconnect with somebody just to dump a lot of difficult stuff on them, that's not fair to them.
So, in conclusion: if you think that having a casual chat with this person would be a good thing for you, then reach out, but don't be offended if they don't respond, and don't trauma dump on them.
posted by elizabot at 11:46 AM on July 12 [3 favorites]
For me, the main litmus test with casual friends is whether or not I enjoy spending time with them. Which it sounds like you do. If they are seriously offending you or your friends, call it out in the moment - and if you find yourself doing that too much, then it might not be the right person to spend a lot of time with. If it's just things that make you roll your eyes, but it doesn't outweigh the fun you have with that person, I'd just chalk it up to a different sense of humor.
I also think it's fine to let friendships ebb and flow. So maybe you get annoyed with the person and take a bit of a break from hanging out with them, but a few months later you see an event you think they'd like to go to and invite them and remember how much you like doing that particular thing with them. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
posted by lunasol at 7:09 PM on July 24
I also think it's fine to let friendships ebb and flow. So maybe you get annoyed with the person and take a bit of a break from hanging out with them, but a few months later you see an event you think they'd like to go to and invite them and remember how much you like doing that particular thing with them. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
posted by lunasol at 7:09 PM on July 24
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...if you feel more tired, or worn, after dealing with them then that is a bad thing.
You should cultivate friendships that energize both of you, and you should discard friendships where your energy is going to sustain them.
Really.
It seems stupid.
But: if you feel more energetic after hanging out, that's a good thing. If you feel weaker, well, that's a bad thing. I know it feels wrong, there may be an ongoing thread telling you the others must be Most Central to Everything, but it is the best way to proceed (IMO).
YMMV. More energy > Less.
posted by aramaic at 7:24 PM on July 11 [23 favorites]