Negotiating between an elderly mother and uncle
July 1, 2024 4:24 PM Subscribe
My mom has been ducking my uncle's calls, he called me to make sure things were ok. I understand why she's been ducking his calls, but I'm not sure how to explain to him or what to do. Extra difficulty, she's 79, he's 83. Details, both snowflake like and rather mundane, are inside.
The setup:
My mom has taken to widowhood well. She's branched out, made loads of friends, goes out multiple times a week, etc., with starting this back up after Covid lockdowns ended. She gets vaccinated every time a new variant comes around and is as careful as possible. She has a fantastic social life for someone about to turn 80. She sees her friends more often than I see mine.
My uncle (her brother) has not bounced back into his social life after Covid. His big thing was bridge playing, which he apparently does online mostly these days. He lived in Iowa and retired to San Diego, so outside of his family and whoever he knows through bridge, he doesn't really have connections out there. His (adopted) daughter is in Texas and his wife/her mother goes and visits more often than he does. So there are times he's home with just his sister in law and her son, and I think he gets lonely and probably bored.
The situation:
He calls her multiple times a week. She's getting sick of it, and does not want to be his primary support when his wife is out of town. So she's been half ghosting him. They tend to have a loving but very contentious relationship. She told me that she has made her view clear to him, that he needs to get out and meet more people, find some retired men's thing, join a book club, play bridge more in person, something. As she tells it, he has not been receptive to the idea. Knowing the way they interact, she did not give this advice in a terribly constructive way.
He called and left a message with me, with a "have you talked with your mom lately, she hasn't answered any of my calls." I told her this, she relayed the above information and now I don't know what to do. I want to call him back and chat with him, just to let him know how my life is, see what, if anything is new with him, etc. He's someone I enjoy talking with, albeit every couple of months.
But I don't know what to say about my mom ignoring his calls. It's a fight that I don't want to be in, I understand both sides of what is going on and know that social isolation can be dangerous for older people. Do I give him the same advice? Try to look up a non-fiction book club or retired men's lunch meeting (my father in law is in one) or something similar? At the same time, I completely emphasize with my mom not wanting to be the sole social support he has during some weeks, especially as they tend to eventually snipe at each other in any conversation they are in. It can't be fun for her.
Extra complication, she's on the east coast of the US, I'm in the UK, and as mentioned before, he's in California. I have google voice set up to pretend to be in the US and thus make US calls for free, but the time differences (5 hours to the east coast, 8 to the west) makes it so that calls have to be planned on my end.
Anyway, I'm feeling stuck with this. Do I give him the advice my mother has probably given in a really poor way (see contentious relationship)? Do I encourage her to pick up a call from him? I'm not in a position to try to chat with him more regularly. I may be so in a few weeks, but as it stands, I just don't have the energy for more than a single call.
The setup:
My mom has taken to widowhood well. She's branched out, made loads of friends, goes out multiple times a week, etc., with starting this back up after Covid lockdowns ended. She gets vaccinated every time a new variant comes around and is as careful as possible. She has a fantastic social life for someone about to turn 80. She sees her friends more often than I see mine.
My uncle (her brother) has not bounced back into his social life after Covid. His big thing was bridge playing, which he apparently does online mostly these days. He lived in Iowa and retired to San Diego, so outside of his family and whoever he knows through bridge, he doesn't really have connections out there. His (adopted) daughter is in Texas and his wife/her mother goes and visits more often than he does. So there are times he's home with just his sister in law and her son, and I think he gets lonely and probably bored.
The situation:
He calls her multiple times a week. She's getting sick of it, and does not want to be his primary support when his wife is out of town. So she's been half ghosting him. They tend to have a loving but very contentious relationship. She told me that she has made her view clear to him, that he needs to get out and meet more people, find some retired men's thing, join a book club, play bridge more in person, something. As she tells it, he has not been receptive to the idea. Knowing the way they interact, she did not give this advice in a terribly constructive way.
He called and left a message with me, with a "have you talked with your mom lately, she hasn't answered any of my calls." I told her this, she relayed the above information and now I don't know what to do. I want to call him back and chat with him, just to let him know how my life is, see what, if anything is new with him, etc. He's someone I enjoy talking with, albeit every couple of months.
But I don't know what to say about my mom ignoring his calls. It's a fight that I don't want to be in, I understand both sides of what is going on and know that social isolation can be dangerous for older people. Do I give him the same advice? Try to look up a non-fiction book club or retired men's lunch meeting (my father in law is in one) or something similar? At the same time, I completely emphasize with my mom not wanting to be the sole social support he has during some weeks, especially as they tend to eventually snipe at each other in any conversation they are in. It can't be fun for her.
Extra complication, she's on the east coast of the US, I'm in the UK, and as mentioned before, he's in California. I have google voice set up to pretend to be in the US and thus make US calls for free, but the time differences (5 hours to the east coast, 8 to the west) makes it so that calls have to be planned on my end.
Anyway, I'm feeling stuck with this. Do I give him the advice my mother has probably given in a really poor way (see contentious relationship)? Do I encourage her to pick up a call from him? I'm not in a position to try to chat with him more regularly. I may be so in a few weeks, but as it stands, I just don't have the energy for more than a single call.
I think you can just say, "Mom's doing well, she's been really busy lately with [things your mom is doing]. What have you been up to lately?" If he directly asks you, "Is your mother avoiding picking up my calls?" that's a little more awkward but you can even say something along the lines of "I know you guys have a kind of contentious relationship, maybe she needs a little space at the moment." Just try and redirect.
You don't need to take on the task of encouraging your uncle to get out and do stuff. You're allowed to talk to him without getting involved in what's going on between him and your mother.
posted by mskyle at 4:41 PM on July 1 [7 favorites]
You don't need to take on the task of encouraging your uncle to get out and do stuff. You're allowed to talk to him without getting involved in what's going on between him and your mother.
posted by mskyle at 4:41 PM on July 1 [7 favorites]
Yes, I think you should call him, chat about normal life things, and definitely encourage him to socialize more. When he asks about your mom just redirect - "Yeah I think she's been busy! It's been such a busy time of year - oh how's your garden?" Is your mom avoiding me? "I don't know, I haven't talked to her about it, hey, I found a bridge club that meets near you!"
Maybe you could even help him look up activities, register for them, type out "help sheets" with the dates and clear directions for him? Make sure he's set up for easy transportation to get to and from activities.
It's possible he's having changes with vision or cognition (or cash flow?) that's making it harder for him to set up activities, but with support on the admin and travel, maybe he could start getting out more?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 5:51 PM on July 1 [4 favorites]
Maybe you could even help him look up activities, register for them, type out "help sheets" with the dates and clear directions for him? Make sure he's set up for easy transportation to get to and from activities.
It's possible he's having changes with vision or cognition (or cash flow?) that's making it harder for him to set up activities, but with support on the admin and travel, maybe he could start getting out more?
posted by nouvelle-personne at 5:51 PM on July 1 [4 favorites]
I would have them arrange a call schedule. Once a week, once every two weeks, whatever your mom is comfortable with.
Making it a Thing, with defined rules, will make it much easier for both sides to cope with.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:57 PM on July 1 [4 favorites]
Making it a Thing, with defined rules, will make it much easier for both sides to cope with.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:57 PM on July 1 [4 favorites]
Call him back, but don't make it about your mother. Just talk to him and lend an ear. That way you'll be doing some of the emotional labour that he's been laying on her.
If you'd be happy to talk to him once a week (or so) going forward, that will take some of the burden off your mother as well as giving your uncle an additional human connection.
If he vents about your mother, either just let it flow by like water or say "I get it, but she's my mom and I'd rather we didn't talk about her in this way."
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:35 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
If you'd be happy to talk to him once a week (or so) going forward, that will take some of the burden off your mother as well as giving your uncle an additional human connection.
If he vents about your mother, either just let it flow by like water or say "I get it, but she's my mom and I'd rather we didn't talk about her in this way."
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:35 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
Seconding phunniemee, & following nouvelle-personne: there are lots of bridge clubs in San Diego.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:05 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:05 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
"I want to call him back and chat with him, just to let him know how my life is, see what, if anything is new with him, etc. He's someone I enjoy talking with, albeit every couple of months."
I think this is the answer you provided yourself in writing this question. When your mom comes up, just keep saying how busy she is these days. Maybe try to call him every month instead of every few months, or pretend you're getting into genealogy and family history and call him every few weeks with a question about his memories or relatives he knew growing up.
posted by lizard music at 7:57 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
I think this is the answer you provided yourself in writing this question. When your mom comes up, just keep saying how busy she is these days. Maybe try to call him every month instead of every few months, or pretend you're getting into genealogy and family history and call him every few weeks with a question about his memories or relatives he knew growing up.
posted by lizard music at 7:57 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
I want to call him back and chat with him, just to let him know how my life is, see what, if anything is new with him, etc. He's someone I enjoy talking with, albeit every couple of months.
wonderful! call him back
But I don't know what to say about my mom ignoring his calls.
we're not our mother's keepers.
It's a fight that I don't want to be in, I understand both sides of what is going on
same buddy. i've got similar family dynamics in my life it'd be way too complicated to get into. suffice it to say, there's one older person who the rest of the fam does not talk to. that is, except me
and know that social isolation can be dangerous for older people. Do I give him the same advice? Try to look up a non-fiction book club or retired men's lunch meeting (my father in law is in one) or something similar?
sure, if he wants advice. the oop in my life does not particularly want advice. every once in a while, i'll try to offer something i think might help & mostly hear a variety of reasons why they've already thought about an idea i'm proposing & decided against it. i've learned my lesson
your mom is not talking to your uncle. maybe he's lonely, maybe he's bored, whatever. you want to talk to him? talk to him. you don't have to talk about your mother or anything you'd rather not. he's just happy you might listen
posted by HearHere at 11:16 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
wonderful! call him back
But I don't know what to say about my mom ignoring his calls.
we're not our mother's keepers.
It's a fight that I don't want to be in, I understand both sides of what is going on
same buddy. i've got similar family dynamics in my life it'd be way too complicated to get into. suffice it to say, there's one older person who the rest of the fam does not talk to. that is, except me
and know that social isolation can be dangerous for older people. Do I give him the same advice? Try to look up a non-fiction book club or retired men's lunch meeting (my father in law is in one) or something similar?
sure, if he wants advice. the oop in my life does not particularly want advice. every once in a while, i'll try to offer something i think might help & mostly hear a variety of reasons why they've already thought about an idea i'm proposing & decided against it. i've learned my lesson
your mom is not talking to your uncle. maybe he's lonely, maybe he's bored, whatever. you want to talk to him? talk to him. you don't have to talk about your mother or anything you'd rather not. he's just happy you might listen
posted by HearHere at 11:16 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
I would call him back and chat him up. If he asks about your mother, just say, "I have no idea why my mom has not picked up your calls lately. She'll have to answer that. I am not getting in the middle of anything. How are you doing?"
Be firm about not getting in the middle of anything. Be pleasant chatting him up otherwise. I would also point out the 8 hour time difference and that it is hard to chat more than occasionally.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:25 PM on July 1 [3 favorites]
Be firm about not getting in the middle of anything. Be pleasant chatting him up otherwise. I would also point out the 8 hour time difference and that it is hard to chat more than occasionally.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:25 PM on July 1 [3 favorites]
It’s not your job to manage your parent’s relationship ship with their sibling. “Mom’s fine! Busy. Not sure why she hasn’t called. You’d have to ask her!”
I’d work hard to stay out of the middle.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:04 AM on July 2 [1 favorite]
I’d work hard to stay out of the middle.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:04 AM on July 2 [1 favorite]
Consider that if you reach out to him, he might start calling you every day to complain. He's lonely and bored.
That means deciding what your boundaries are and how you would reinforce them. And your involvement in this sibling problem indicates that you're maybe not that practised at boundaries.
posted by Omnomnom at 9:36 AM on July 2
That means deciding what your boundaries are and how you would reinforce them. And your involvement in this sibling problem indicates that you're maybe not that practised at boundaries.
posted by Omnomnom at 9:36 AM on July 2
You are neither your mother's or your uncle's keeper. They're adults and can manage their own lives.
Your call you do or don't want to chat--you set the limits.
To avoid the time scheduling and getting trapped in a conversation that's hard to end, what you might think about, rather than a call, send a card with a few lines or a short note ever so often. There's something about a physical communication that lasts longer than a phone call, and everybody likes mail.
If, and only if, you feel like doing some quick computer research, you might look up activities that you think your uncle would be interested in and mail or text him a website, somewhat like Iris Gambol mentioned. Giving him an actual place that he can visit might prod him out. Saying that he could join a bridge club is pretty nebulous, giving him specific information such as an address and phone number is better. Is he comfortable using a computer if he has the web address, or does he need things spelled out "old school" style?
posted by BlueHorse at 12:08 PM on July 2
Your call you do or don't want to chat--you set the limits.
To avoid the time scheduling and getting trapped in a conversation that's hard to end, what you might think about, rather than a call, send a card with a few lines or a short note ever so often. There's something about a physical communication that lasts longer than a phone call, and everybody likes mail.
If, and only if, you feel like doing some quick computer research, you might look up activities that you think your uncle would be interested in and mail or text him a website, somewhat like Iris Gambol mentioned. Giving him an actual place that he can visit might prod him out. Saying that he could join a bridge club is pretty nebulous, giving him specific information such as an address and phone number is better. Is he comfortable using a computer if he has the web address, or does he need things spelled out "old school" style?
posted by BlueHorse at 12:08 PM on July 2
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You're not responsible for project managing the relationship of these adult siblings nor are you responsible for fixing your uncle. Draw strength from the fantastic boundary setting example your mom has given you and set some yourself.
posted by phunniemee at 4:37 PM on July 1 [62 favorites]