How do future parents evaluate school districts?
June 30, 2024 8:34 PM Subscribe
Baby Sooner is soon to arrive, and my partner and I are already thinking of school districts. We're considering a move in our future, but feel ill-equipped to do this research. If you've moved for school-related reasons, how did you make your decision?
I'm aware of greatschools.org and Niche, and I'm also aware of the ways that school ratings can be problematic. I don't want to rely on those, and I want to gain a fuller understanding of the strengths and challenges of the various schools we might .
Are there good websites to visit? Or are there specific things you'd look for in a school? Or questions you might ask to administrators, neighbors, etc. that would give an indication of how well a particular school might align with your own personal values?
(I'm intentionally being vague about what our values are, because I'm particularly curious to hear what respondents valued, and how you did research that gave you the information you were looking for.)
I'm aware of greatschools.org and Niche, and I'm also aware of the ways that school ratings can be problematic. I don't want to rely on those, and I want to gain a fuller understanding of the strengths and challenges of the various schools we might .
Are there good websites to visit? Or are there specific things you'd look for in a school? Or questions you might ask to administrators, neighbors, etc. that would give an indication of how well a particular school might align with your own personal values?
(I'm intentionally being vague about what our values are, because I'm particularly curious to hear what respondents valued, and how you did research that gave you the information you were looking for.)
Oh and watching the principal interact with the kids. They can set the tone for the school.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:37 PM on June 30 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:37 PM on June 30 [1 favorite]
Re: what to ask administrators- ask them about the things you value (holistic education? Academic results? Access to differentiated curriculum?), and pay attention to what they emphasise in any school tours or branding. It might not reveal what they personally think is important but it will reveal what they believe their community values and that is definitely a big part of what makes up the school experience.
posted by jojobobo at 10:12 PM on June 30
posted by jojobobo at 10:12 PM on June 30
Fwiw (as a school tchr) I do think it's worth keeping in mind that school tours are a PR exercise and as such do not necessarily represent the reality of school life, especially in a bigger school where the principal may not even deal with the day to day of the school much. They are still valuable but keep in mind that they are a fairly well oiled machine (in many cases) designed/planned to present the school in the most flattering light. After all, most of the time the person doing the tour will not be teaching your kid. I still think they are probably the best tool you have but I'd just keep in mind that there are many influential variables that shape the school experience in addition to the principal, even though they are of course really important. I'd complement any kind of feeling you get with some facts around staff professional learning, turnover, what they are currently investing in re strategic planning and funding and any kind of hard results data, which does give you a picture of how things are going on average even though of course it doesn't tell you about how your own child will find things.
posted by jojobobo at 10:23 PM on June 30 [6 favorites]
posted by jojobobo at 10:23 PM on June 30 [6 favorites]
Our city has unexpectedly low ratings for public schools (Pasadena; it's due to white flight/integration challenges, shameful).
We looked at moving to other communities but ultimately decided that we wanted our kids to go to school where we lived, with peers in our community, and we loved where we lived. To get more comfortable with this choice even despite the low ratings, I made an effort to interact with current parents of kids in public school, joined the district booster organization and offered a regular monthly donation (in Pasadena, it's PEN Families, or Pasadena Education Network - it's basically a parent-directed nonprofit focused on promoting public school enrollment - it is NOT a PTA or focused on improving school outcomes), and toured schools.
Our kid will ultimately start for 2025-2026 so this may be a "too soon to tell" report, but this is how we approached this decision.
OH! And we also feel comfortable that if we need to make a change, we can make a choice (financial, logistical, etc) to send our kid to private school or a public charter school. This somehow makes the school decision feel slightly less heavy.
posted by samthemander at 10:48 PM on June 30 [2 favorites]
We looked at moving to other communities but ultimately decided that we wanted our kids to go to school where we lived, with peers in our community, and we loved where we lived. To get more comfortable with this choice even despite the low ratings, I made an effort to interact with current parents of kids in public school, joined the district booster organization and offered a regular monthly donation (in Pasadena, it's PEN Families, or Pasadena Education Network - it's basically a parent-directed nonprofit focused on promoting public school enrollment - it is NOT a PTA or focused on improving school outcomes), and toured schools.
Our kid will ultimately start for 2025-2026 so this may be a "too soon to tell" report, but this is how we approached this decision.
OH! And we also feel comfortable that if we need to make a change, we can make a choice (financial, logistical, etc) to send our kid to private school or a public charter school. This somehow makes the school decision feel slightly less heavy.
posted by samthemander at 10:48 PM on June 30 [2 favorites]
I don't think you want the "best" school(s). You want the best school for your child. What are your child's strengths and weaknesses? What do other parents who recently (or still do) send their children to the various choices among schools you are considering say? What is the spending per pupil? What percentage of the budget goes to salaries and compensation of the teachers? Of the administrators? Are they top heavy in admins? Are there any hiring requirements for the teachers? Do they require a Masters degree? Minimum 2 years experience? What is the average class size? In an elementary school, what are the offerings besides learning to read, write and do basic math? Is there many art offerings or art time? How about outdoor exercise time such as recess or even gym class? Look for changes in the budget. What area did they cut? What area are they bolstering? If there are any testing measure of overall student performance, how does that school stack up against peer schools? How many students were performing at or above grade level?
The biggest asset of any school public or private is the teachers. What we also found was that a teacher that was good for one of our children may not have been good for another. Some schools and some districts will allow you to request a teacher that an older child recently had. That may be good or bad actually.
You're in Chicago by your user page. When we lived in Chicago, we moved from the city to the north shore. My wife was teaching at New Trier. The decision to stay in public schools also if a function of tax rates in the district and real estate values. If you are moving for a school district, you are presumably buying a home. A lot of suburban home values are a function of school competency.
We also looked at what the middle schools and high schools were even when our oldest was just going into kindergarten. Are we going to have to move again because we love the elementary school but the upper schools were a mess?
What about your own school experience did you think was important or helpful in your later schooling or your life in general?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:12 AM on July 1 [5 favorites]
The biggest asset of any school public or private is the teachers. What we also found was that a teacher that was good for one of our children may not have been good for another. Some schools and some districts will allow you to request a teacher that an older child recently had. That may be good or bad actually.
You're in Chicago by your user page. When we lived in Chicago, we moved from the city to the north shore. My wife was teaching at New Trier. The decision to stay in public schools also if a function of tax rates in the district and real estate values. If you are moving for a school district, you are presumably buying a home. A lot of suburban home values are a function of school competency.
We also looked at what the middle schools and high schools were even when our oldest was just going into kindergarten. Are we going to have to move again because we love the elementary school but the upper schools were a mess?
What about your own school experience did you think was important or helpful in your later schooling or your life in general?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:12 AM on July 1 [5 favorites]
I had a very expensive education in SE England. It has served me well in table-quizzes ever since. For things that mattered, I learned them elsewhere. My parents did a fair bit of research before choosing where to spend their money. Immediately after my older brother enrolled, the revered and respected principal of the school retired and the regime changed significantly, largely for the worse. Not bad enough for my folks to revisit their decision, though. The biggest impact on BabySooner's happiness will be the cohort of kids who rock up on the first day - no amount of prior research will comprehend that. It will be fine.
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:35 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
posted by BobTheScientist at 1:35 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
As someone who grew up in an area chosen for its good schools, I'd recommend also considering what your child's life might be like outside of school. How independent is it possible for a kid to be in that area (will they be able to go meet friends on their own, without a car? Will they be able to go out to walk or explore, and if so will there be anything for them to do or see besides lawns?) Is there a neighborhood feel, with local kids potentially hanging out in public spaces? Are there activities your kids would be able to do if interested, and would they be able to easily get there? Is there any diversity, including socioeconomic, or is it more of a monoculture?
As far as schools, as I said I went to a district widely considered excellent and in some ways it was. My experience there was largely dependent on the individual teachers I had, though: some were excellent, many less so, and a few had absolutely no business working with kids. My impression of a lot of the kids, at least until high school, was "rich and spoiled" which didn't inspire me to develop my social skills, though knowing me I might have had antagonistic reactions to different types of cohorts too. Violence at school was low, though not non-existent.
One thing I really appreciated about my district was that it still had facilities and equipment for hands-on subjects like art and multiple types of crafts (shop, etc.) and there was space in the curriculum for them. I know other kids who went to schools where students could interact with plants, animals, machinery, and so on. I think these things might be relatively rare today, with the emphasis on computers, but I'd consider it a plus if a district of school offered it, especially for middle and high school. A wide range of after-school activities can also make it more likely that a kid will find something to connect with.
Schools these days will often have overarching policies on things like phone use, approach to homework, use of digital classwork management platforms, data retention and privacy, and so on.
They should also have systems and procedures in place for students who need IEPs and other individualized support. It's worth investigating this even if you don't think it will be relevant to you.
As for personal values on things like DEI, LGBTQ+, religion, and more, I'd look at official statements and indications on the district/school webpage, calendar (what events and holidays do they observe), and so on; ask administrators and teachers about it outright; and consider the local environment/culture/demographics the school exists in.
I'd also pay attention to how "human", for lack of a better word, the administration's approach to kids seems to be. Do they give off a sorry of adversarial, discipline/management-oriented vibe, a "we know kids are all individuals and we really care about meeting them where they are and being flexible" vibe, etc.
posted by trig at 1:55 AM on July 1 [10 favorites]
As far as schools, as I said I went to a district widely considered excellent and in some ways it was. My experience there was largely dependent on the individual teachers I had, though: some were excellent, many less so, and a few had absolutely no business working with kids. My impression of a lot of the kids, at least until high school, was "rich and spoiled" which didn't inspire me to develop my social skills, though knowing me I might have had antagonistic reactions to different types of cohorts too. Violence at school was low, though not non-existent.
One thing I really appreciated about my district was that it still had facilities and equipment for hands-on subjects like art and multiple types of crafts (shop, etc.) and there was space in the curriculum for them. I know other kids who went to schools where students could interact with plants, animals, machinery, and so on. I think these things might be relatively rare today, with the emphasis on computers, but I'd consider it a plus if a district of school offered it, especially for middle and high school. A wide range of after-school activities can also make it more likely that a kid will find something to connect with.
Schools these days will often have overarching policies on things like phone use, approach to homework, use of digital classwork management platforms, data retention and privacy, and so on.
They should also have systems and procedures in place for students who need IEPs and other individualized support. It's worth investigating this even if you don't think it will be relevant to you.
As for personal values on things like DEI, LGBTQ+, religion, and more, I'd look at official statements and indications on the district/school webpage, calendar (what events and holidays do they observe), and so on; ask administrators and teachers about it outright; and consider the local environment/culture/demographics the school exists in.
I'd also pay attention to how "human", for lack of a better word, the administration's approach to kids seems to be. Do they give off a sorry of adversarial, discipline/management-oriented vibe, a "we know kids are all individuals and we really care about meeting them where they are and being flexible" vibe, etc.
posted by trig at 1:55 AM on July 1 [10 favorites]
Two lesser-used data points that may be of importance in addition to all the fine ideas above: find out whether the elementary schools are providing social-emotional learning (SEL) opportunities and what reading or ELA curriculum is in use. You can google to determine whether the responses are consistent with your values and concerns. We live in an area where our values do not predominate the population or the school board, but the answers to both of those questions are the first clue that the teachers' outlook and day-to-day life at our elementary school is exactly what we want despite this.
Also, watch and vote in your school board elections.
posted by LadyInWaiting at 3:12 AM on July 1 [8 favorites]
Also, watch and vote in your school board elections.
posted by LadyInWaiting at 3:12 AM on July 1 [8 favorites]
Oh, and these days... I might ask how they handled the pandemic, what their mask policies were, and about any air quality improvement measures they've taken or planned (though that last one is probably extremely rare).
Also, their position on book banning. If it's possible to look at reading lists for different years, or at least take a look at the school libraries if they exist, you might get a sense of what kinds of things the school/district considers permissible and worth highlighting.
posted by trig at 3:18 AM on July 1 [6 favorites]
Also, their position on book banning. If it's possible to look at reading lists for different years, or at least take a look at the school libraries if they exist, you might get a sense of what kinds of things the school/district considers permissible and worth highlighting.
posted by trig at 3:18 AM on July 1 [6 favorites]
We didn’t move for school but we ended up sending our kid to a private school in a neighboring county. I support public schools and my original plan was to move to a place that had better public schools but moving ended up not being in the cards and the public school we’re zoned for is just really incredibly awful in a number of ways that I could never have fixed even if I spent all my days on the pta and gave them private school levels of money.
We ended up selecting a school based on teaching quality, overall multi year curriculum, and school community culture (are the parents satisfied and active in the school community overall). We also placed a high value on the amount of physically active time built in to the elementary school day. That said, the trade off is that because the school is not part of a larger system, there are some limits to their ability to offer as wide an expanse of extracurriculars (no band or orchestra, only a few sports) but that’s a trade off we’re ok with.
If you are looking at public only, sometimes schools publish reports for the city or county that include a vacancy rate. This won’t tell you turnover, but it will tell you the percent of open budgeted for positions that have not been filled, which can give you a general idea of if the schools are operating understaffed. A high vacancy rate would give me pause. There are plenty of reasons a school system might not be able to fill their budgeted for vacant positions, but not many of those reasons are good.
posted by donut_princess at 3:31 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
We ended up selecting a school based on teaching quality, overall multi year curriculum, and school community culture (are the parents satisfied and active in the school community overall). We also placed a high value on the amount of physically active time built in to the elementary school day. That said, the trade off is that because the school is not part of a larger system, there are some limits to their ability to offer as wide an expanse of extracurriculars (no band or orchestra, only a few sports) but that’s a trade off we’re ok with.
If you are looking at public only, sometimes schools publish reports for the city or county that include a vacancy rate. This won’t tell you turnover, but it will tell you the percent of open budgeted for positions that have not been filled, which can give you a general idea of if the schools are operating understaffed. A high vacancy rate would give me pause. There are plenty of reasons a school system might not be able to fill their budgeted for vacant positions, but not many of those reasons are good.
posted by donut_princess at 3:31 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
The advice I got was to wait a bit to see whether your kid has any educational needs that might be hard to meet, and then pick a school with that knowledge in hand. As mentioned upthread, school culture is shaped by staff and leadership, and turnover at both levels is likely before your child is school-age, so acting now will mean you’re missing multiple bits of information that might affect your choice. It’s also worth remembering that if it’s not working, you can make a different choice, even mid-year if you need to.
I see you’re also asking about personal values. I guess the above betrays where we started, at least: wanting to pick a school to fit the child rather than to try to use a school to shape the child. In our case we sent her to private school, not because the neighborhood schools are bad (they’re reportedly quite good) but because we weren’t sure her particular needs would be met there. With seven years of school under our belt I can now see the limits of this strategy, to be honest: every school is an institution, every institution needs norms to function, and the weirder your kid or your family is, the lower your chances of finding a place where the norms of that institution won’t create friction. Put another way, the families who most need the advice to pick an environment to suit the child might still find themselves struggling anyway; and for everyone else, the choice might not matter a great deal.
posted by eirias at 3:39 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
I see you’re also asking about personal values. I guess the above betrays where we started, at least: wanting to pick a school to fit the child rather than to try to use a school to shape the child. In our case we sent her to private school, not because the neighborhood schools are bad (they’re reportedly quite good) but because we weren’t sure her particular needs would be met there. With seven years of school under our belt I can now see the limits of this strategy, to be honest: every school is an institution, every institution needs norms to function, and the weirder your kid or your family is, the lower your chances of finding a place where the norms of that institution won’t create friction. Put another way, the families who most need the advice to pick an environment to suit the child might still find themselves struggling anyway; and for everyone else, the choice might not matter a great deal.
posted by eirias at 3:39 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
Walkability. School size. Class size. Diversity.
Walking to school has many benefits, including getting to meet other kids and families on the way there and back home. When your kiddo is older they can start walking by themselves. Great for developing independence.
Administrators and teachers will get to know you better in a 400 versus a 900 kid elementary school.
With 30 kids per class , teachers have to work just to keep on top of things. 22 kids per class, the teacher have more time to get to know your kiddo.
Kids can learn early that people come in all colors of the rainbow. It’s great to find a school where the families come in all shades of brown, white, and black.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:39 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
Walking to school has many benefits, including getting to meet other kids and families on the way there and back home. When your kiddo is older they can start walking by themselves. Great for developing independence.
Administrators and teachers will get to know you better in a 400 versus a 900 kid elementary school.
With 30 kids per class , teachers have to work just to keep on top of things. 22 kids per class, the teacher have more time to get to know your kiddo.
Kids can learn early that people come in all colors of the rainbow. It’s great to find a school where the families come in all shades of brown, white, and black.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:39 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
This is a really difficult question to answer, because you don't know your kid yet, and you don't know what the school is going to be like when your kid attends, and will (probably/should?) eventually be handled in a realpolitik fashion. It is better to reframe this question as a continual, ongoing process, not a single decision (even though buying a house and setting down roots feels pretty 'single decision-y').
Our entire house-buying-choice wasn't necessarily geared this way, we chose a house where kid would go to an extremely small elementary school, for many of the same reasons Winnie the Proust above mentions. It was not perfect, but good overall. They were able to help out well with some of our kid's special needs, he made good friends, learned a ton, and overall got a good education (pandemic withstanding, natch).
But, that school fed into a middle school that was by all measures pretty bad. It was a much larger school that seemed very poorly run. A combination of very green administration, specific issues to kid's cohort, and the socioeconomic stresses present for the majority of the kids attending the school, it was a really violent, bully ridden, unhinged place. We had to move him 6 weeks before the end of this last year to a school that doesn't match our specific values, but is better for him and his education. It's a really uncomfortable tension to be in....but having kid attend a school that doesn't line up with our social/political values isn't the priority; kid's education and safety are.
It's hard to explain fully how our 'values evaluation' of schools in our local area were completely blown apart by the pandemic. Children in my kid's cohort are (by parent attestation, administration attestation....everyone we talk to) much more dysregulated, and violent. The pandemic upended his cohort's schooling. Full stop. Any specific questions you were asking about speaking with administrators, tours, etc won't matter at all, because you won't have any insight to the specific cohort of kids going to that school at that time.
Again, I know that it feels like this is the kind of clockwork decision that has a single trigger point and then you travel through the whole system because of that one decision, but it isn't. You'll have options (many, I hope!) for where to send your kid, and alternative tracks to take. But just keep in mind that the priority of your values may change a bit with unknown, or unanticipated curves thrown at you and your kid.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:00 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
Our entire house-buying-choice wasn't necessarily geared this way, we chose a house where kid would go to an extremely small elementary school, for many of the same reasons Winnie the Proust above mentions. It was not perfect, but good overall. They were able to help out well with some of our kid's special needs, he made good friends, learned a ton, and overall got a good education (pandemic withstanding, natch).
But, that school fed into a middle school that was by all measures pretty bad. It was a much larger school that seemed very poorly run. A combination of very green administration, specific issues to kid's cohort, and the socioeconomic stresses present for the majority of the kids attending the school, it was a really violent, bully ridden, unhinged place. We had to move him 6 weeks before the end of this last year to a school that doesn't match our specific values, but is better for him and his education. It's a really uncomfortable tension to be in....but having kid attend a school that doesn't line up with our social/political values isn't the priority; kid's education and safety are.
It's hard to explain fully how our 'values evaluation' of schools in our local area were completely blown apart by the pandemic. Children in my kid's cohort are (by parent attestation, administration attestation....everyone we talk to) much more dysregulated, and violent. The pandemic upended his cohort's schooling. Full stop. Any specific questions you were asking about speaking with administrators, tours, etc won't matter at all, because you won't have any insight to the specific cohort of kids going to that school at that time.
Again, I know that it feels like this is the kind of clockwork decision that has a single trigger point and then you travel through the whole system because of that one decision, but it isn't. You'll have options (many, I hope!) for where to send your kid, and alternative tracks to take. But just keep in mind that the priority of your values may change a bit with unknown, or unanticipated curves thrown at you and your kid.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:00 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
Look on FB for each school's neighbourhood group and join it. In my area, there's a HUGE difference between the parent communities at the two schools - one school has much more equity-informed conversation in the group - less dogwhistle racism, more pushback when a post is problematic or displays subtle inequity. Plus, in that group, people are much more likely to make and fill the small requests that create community, ie,
- "Anyone have an extra bottle of Children's Tylenol? I just ran out!"
- "We're decluttering - huge box of free toddler clothes and toys on the sidewalk at Intersection!"
- "Restaurant ABC had a small kitchen fire which was costly to fix but they're open again - visit if you can, to help the lovely owners recoup some revenue!"
- "Appreciation post for our awesome crossing guard, Lisa - she knows all the kids' names and gave them stickers for Halloween! We're so lucky, thanks Lisa!"
I LOVE the community vibe and that made the choice easy for me!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:09 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
- "Anyone have an extra bottle of Children's Tylenol? I just ran out!"
- "We're decluttering - huge box of free toddler clothes and toys on the sidewalk at Intersection!"
- "Restaurant ABC had a small kitchen fire which was costly to fix but they're open again - visit if you can, to help the lovely owners recoup some revenue!"
- "Appreciation post for our awesome crossing guard, Lisa - she knows all the kids' names and gave them stickers for Halloween! We're so lucky, thanks Lisa!"
I LOVE the community vibe and that made the choice easy for me!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:09 AM on July 1 [3 favorites]
Schools these days will often have overarching policies on things like phone use, approach to homework, use of digital classwork management platforms, data retention and privacy, and so on.
Yeah, I am not a parent but from 2012–2023 I taught college students, so my perspective here is based on that - I recently learned that a lot of schools use really intense surveillance technology (I am getting into the Attention Activism scene). That was a light bulb moment for me - "Ah, that's why so many of my students were anxious because I wasn't constantly giving them positive feedback." Seriously, Google "GoGaurdian" - it allows teachers to see what is on the screen of every student in the classroom, it scans students faces and translates their emotions, it grades their attentiveness, etc. - it's truly creepy and seems deeply damaging to letting kids learn to focus on their own volition. So, these days, if I was a parent, I'd look for a school that is ideologically committed to being as analog as possible in terms of their pedagogy. Sure, you want kids to learn about computers in a computer class, but there is an ever-growing body of evidence that an over reliance on screens and surveillance tech is really bad for childhood development (intellectually and emotionally).
posted by coffeecat at 8:21 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I am not a parent but from 2012–2023 I taught college students, so my perspective here is based on that - I recently learned that a lot of schools use really intense surveillance technology (I am getting into the Attention Activism scene). That was a light bulb moment for me - "Ah, that's why so many of my students were anxious because I wasn't constantly giving them positive feedback." Seriously, Google "GoGaurdian" - it allows teachers to see what is on the screen of every student in the classroom, it scans students faces and translates their emotions, it grades their attentiveness, etc. - it's truly creepy and seems deeply damaging to letting kids learn to focus on their own volition. So, these days, if I was a parent, I'd look for a school that is ideologically committed to being as analog as possible in terms of their pedagogy. Sure, you want kids to learn about computers in a computer class, but there is an ever-growing body of evidence that an over reliance on screens and surveillance tech is really bad for childhood development (intellectually and emotionally).
posted by coffeecat at 8:21 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
A lot of liberal folks’ values go out the door when it comes time to figure out schooling for their kid. If you are a liberal-ish white person who values diversity and integration, then you’ll likely have to prioritize that over other things, like high test scores. You’ll also have to start thinking about what’s good for kids and community generally, not just what is best for your specific child. This isn’t easy!
Also, your life for the next many years as a human and parent will be much easier if you and your kid can walk or bike to a neighborhood school for elementary, and not be too far from middle and high schools. Proximity might seem like it’s not a priority, but the shuttling of kids to schools further away becomes an entire lifestyle decision that traps you both in a car for many hours of childhood.
Find a neighborhood you like that’s somewhat walkable and send your kid to the neighborhood school.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:15 AM on July 1 [17 favorites]
Also, your life for the next many years as a human and parent will be much easier if you and your kid can walk or bike to a neighborhood school for elementary, and not be too far from middle and high schools. Proximity might seem like it’s not a priority, but the shuttling of kids to schools further away becomes an entire lifestyle decision that traps you both in a car for many hours of childhood.
Find a neighborhood you like that’s somewhat walkable and send your kid to the neighborhood school.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:15 AM on July 1 [17 favorites]
+1 principal makes a huge difference. Where I live, the school district made a point of rotating principals between schools every few years to equalize across the district. It was noticeable when we rotated from good to bad. This is not a factor you can plan your housing around.
My city has two sides, one richer than the other. I took a hit and lived on the richer side, at some hit to my long term finances. This was fine for elementary school but didn’t work out in high school. The principal was bad and the teachers paid so poorly, they did not care at all. Don’t discount the factor of the enshittification of everything in a race to the bottom.
Transferability within the school district is important in high school. It might not be working out with the other students, your child might not have access to extracurriculars or support. My location did have the advantage of having “minischool” programs that I could have attempted transfers. I also live by transit so my kid could get themselves home after school (good luck waking them early enough for transit to school!) Due to personal circumstances I did not attempt the transfer and this is a big regret. I would highly prioritize an area with transfer programs to help you get what you need when you need it, along with access to transportation that your child can use at least one way in the secondary years.
Finally do not stress too much about all of this. Your child can catch up in a university transfer program at a community college, then transfer to a four year program at a great school and get to a similar place in life as others in your socioeconomic class. Your kid might get FOMO at high school graduation, especially if you have enrolled your child in expensive extracurriculars and they can see what rich kids are doing, but it will not harm them in the long run.
posted by shock muppet at 10:40 AM on July 1
My city has two sides, one richer than the other. I took a hit and lived on the richer side, at some hit to my long term finances. This was fine for elementary school but didn’t work out in high school. The principal was bad and the teachers paid so poorly, they did not care at all. Don’t discount the factor of the enshittification of everything in a race to the bottom.
Transferability within the school district is important in high school. It might not be working out with the other students, your child might not have access to extracurriculars or support. My location did have the advantage of having “minischool” programs that I could have attempted transfers. I also live by transit so my kid could get themselves home after school (good luck waking them early enough for transit to school!) Due to personal circumstances I did not attempt the transfer and this is a big regret. I would highly prioritize an area with transfer programs to help you get what you need when you need it, along with access to transportation that your child can use at least one way in the secondary years.
Finally do not stress too much about all of this. Your child can catch up in a university transfer program at a community college, then transfer to a four year program at a great school and get to a similar place in life as others in your socioeconomic class. Your kid might get FOMO at high school graduation, especially if you have enrolled your child in expensive extracurriculars and they can see what rich kids are doing, but it will not harm them in the long run.
posted by shock muppet at 10:40 AM on July 1
There's so much to think about on this topic - I think it's a good thing to connect with like-minded and like-valued parents on this and other topics as your child grows up. You'll find some parents whose ethos is that their kids must be in the highest-achieving schools no matter what - they will pay any amount they afford to either send their kids to a private school that meets all of their parenting fantasies or to live where they are zoned for a top-tier public school. That may be you! But it also may not be. You may have more nuanced needs, you may be more values-driven and those values may be different from other parents' values, you may have a sense that your child needs certain types of things more than other types of things, you may be highly achievement-oriented but restricted by your resources.
One thing I have noticed is that some parents are plain-faced about wanting the very they can get (buy) for their kids, with an emphasis on money- and status-driven markers for "best." Other parents appear to be values-forward but underneath they just use more complex reasoning to make similar or slightly adjacent status-driven decisions. Sometimes, the complex reasoning is driven by the circumstances of their kid's needs, personalities or learning styles (and these may be truly distinct or may be mostly in the eyes of the parent; listen for "I wanted to love it, but..."; you may also find yourself saying this!) You may also find parents who are truly values-driven, and some of those parents may make decisions you aren't prepared to make for your own child. ("I wanted to love it, but...")
I live in a large urban district with some schools that are doing well on most axes and many schools that may or may not be doing fine or even well depending on how you evaluate them, and many schools that are frankly failing by most metrics. We looked at private schools, we looked at our zoned neighborhood school, we looked at the citywide lottery system and made some decisions and some decisions were made for us. I talked to a lot of parents I knew, and especially parents who work in schools. I read and listened to a lot, as well. I found the Nice White Parents podcast illuminating. I also found Courtney Martin's book Learning in Public extremely illuminating (even though I also think it's somewhat flawed; in fact the school she sends her kids to is my own neighborhood school, which we ultimately decided was not a functional enough environment for our kids; "I wanted to love it, but..."). Ultimately, I kind of wish we were in a different district (nearby) that is overall better funded and distributes its funding more equitably and has slightly fewer urban issues to contend with. And there's a part of me that still wants to do the white flight thing and move to a fancy suburb with all high-performing schools and all the cultural and values problems of suburbs.
Some folks have mentioned: A school that is great now may not be great tomorrow, especially with changes in administration (though the better a school functions over time, the better it can weather changes). Similarly, a school that was failing recently, may be doing much better right now and that trend may (or may not) continue. A school that is not "ranked" highly may be a great fit for your child or family; a school that is "ranked" highly may or may not be a great fit for your child or family. A good enough school may be good enough, or great!, for your family. An elementary school that is a great fit may feed into a middle or high school that is not. A lot of these decisions are made as a leap of faith with the information and resources you have when you have them.
posted by vunder at 11:08 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
One thing I have noticed is that some parents are plain-faced about wanting the very they can get (buy) for their kids, with an emphasis on money- and status-driven markers for "best." Other parents appear to be values-forward but underneath they just use more complex reasoning to make similar or slightly adjacent status-driven decisions. Sometimes, the complex reasoning is driven by the circumstances of their kid's needs, personalities or learning styles (and these may be truly distinct or may be mostly in the eyes of the parent; listen for "I wanted to love it, but..."; you may also find yourself saying this!) You may also find parents who are truly values-driven, and some of those parents may make decisions you aren't prepared to make for your own child. ("I wanted to love it, but...")
I live in a large urban district with some schools that are doing well on most axes and many schools that may or may not be doing fine or even well depending on how you evaluate them, and many schools that are frankly failing by most metrics. We looked at private schools, we looked at our zoned neighborhood school, we looked at the citywide lottery system and made some decisions and some decisions were made for us. I talked to a lot of parents I knew, and especially parents who work in schools. I read and listened to a lot, as well. I found the Nice White Parents podcast illuminating. I also found Courtney Martin's book Learning in Public extremely illuminating (even though I also think it's somewhat flawed; in fact the school she sends her kids to is my own neighborhood school, which we ultimately decided was not a functional enough environment for our kids; "I wanted to love it, but..."). Ultimately, I kind of wish we were in a different district (nearby) that is overall better funded and distributes its funding more equitably and has slightly fewer urban issues to contend with. And there's a part of me that still wants to do the white flight thing and move to a fancy suburb with all high-performing schools and all the cultural and values problems of suburbs.
Some folks have mentioned: A school that is great now may not be great tomorrow, especially with changes in administration (though the better a school functions over time, the better it can weather changes). Similarly, a school that was failing recently, may be doing much better right now and that trend may (or may not) continue. A school that is not "ranked" highly may be a great fit for your child or family; a school that is "ranked" highly may or may not be a great fit for your child or family. A good enough school may be good enough, or great!, for your family. An elementary school that is a great fit may feed into a middle or high school that is not. A lot of these decisions are made as a leap of faith with the information and resources you have when you have them.
posted by vunder at 11:08 AM on July 1 [2 favorites]
There is a lot to think about on this topic, and the hardest part is often you are buying a home for a future child you don't know, so you can't anticipate their needs. When we bought our first house, we were not married and kids were a nice idea. We bought in the neighborhood zoned for the public school I volunteered at, with the idea that I liked the staff there. Our imaginary children were always going to go to private school, but we wanted a good fallback option. The administration at our child's private school ended up changing and was not good by the time we were there, and the public schools got taken over by red-hatted people. We moved away because suddenly what seemed like a place with great schooling options had none. This is to say that picking a home for a child you don't know yet based on schools may not work based on their needs and what you see now could change quite a bit before that child enters school.
We pay for private school because we both went to one and like the integration of religious values, but the other factors that mattered to us were diversity (easier to get at the school of our faith), early foreign language learning, and opportunities for parents to volunteer.
posted by notjustthefish at 1:12 PM on July 1 [3 favorites]
We pay for private school because we both went to one and like the integration of religious values, but the other factors that mattered to us were diversity (easier to get at the school of our faith), early foreign language learning, and opportunities for parents to volunteer.
posted by notjustthefish at 1:12 PM on July 1 [3 favorites]
The State of Illinois provides all of the available school data at Illinois Report Card. This is the data source that those other website use to come up with a derived score or rank.
The short and easy answer is money. There is a very strong relationship between average household income and per student spending with 'good' schools.
Selective/magnet enrollment and private schools both have the additional benefit of self selection, as the additional effort and cost these require lead to self selection of more motivated parents.
A third factor is that private schools are not obligated address American society's shortcomings the way the public schools do. What that means is that they simply aren't legally obligated by an IEP or a 504 plan to accommodate kids with special needs. Those kids use precious resources and cash and the net effect will be lower school scores.
Accounting for these three factors means that, generally speaking, public schools on average do as well for kids that are high achieving and average, and significantly better for low academic achieving people. You can't know what needs you kids will have, and those can change over time.
Public schools generally don't align with "your personal values". A public school will be run locally (except CPS), staffed regionally and uphold state mandates. If you've got some strongly held values that are outside the community you happen to live in (but are not actually a part of) then I would suggest that it will be difficult to make further suggestions without knowing what those values actually are. Other parents with shared values who are also considering their kids schools would be the best option here.
Chicago, like many large urban cities, is trying what seems like everything all at once and it's difficult to know how to where to start to navigate that system. Just on the public side there's the local school, selective enrollment, magnet schools and mixtures of all three. You have all the charter schools, Montessori and then there's the religious schools, plus all the expat schools. Experimental schools, University run training schools, social justice schools and certainly others that I'm not aware of.
It all sounds like too much - but everyone I know was able to get it sorted out. You are deeply anxious about doing everything you can to provide the best you can for your kid. But you don't need to answer all these questions today.
Remember that school isn't a permanent situation and if it's not working out you can switch classes, you can switch schools. I've known several folks who have moved, and moved again because it's just not possible to know this future.
I have been working in this field in Illinois for over a decade now - feel free to shoot me a message with questions.
posted by zenon at 1:31 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
The short and easy answer is money. There is a very strong relationship between average household income and per student spending with 'good' schools.
Selective/magnet enrollment and private schools both have the additional benefit of self selection, as the additional effort and cost these require lead to self selection of more motivated parents.
A third factor is that private schools are not obligated address American society's shortcomings the way the public schools do. What that means is that they simply aren't legally obligated by an IEP or a 504 plan to accommodate kids with special needs. Those kids use precious resources and cash and the net effect will be lower school scores.
Accounting for these three factors means that, generally speaking, public schools on average do as well for kids that are high achieving and average, and significantly better for low academic achieving people. You can't know what needs you kids will have, and those can change over time.
Public schools generally don't align with "your personal values". A public school will be run locally (except CPS), staffed regionally and uphold state mandates. If you've got some strongly held values that are outside the community you happen to live in (but are not actually a part of) then I would suggest that it will be difficult to make further suggestions without knowing what those values actually are. Other parents with shared values who are also considering their kids schools would be the best option here.
Chicago, like many large urban cities, is trying what seems like everything all at once and it's difficult to know how to where to start to navigate that system. Just on the public side there's the local school, selective enrollment, magnet schools and mixtures of all three. You have all the charter schools, Montessori and then there's the religious schools, plus all the expat schools. Experimental schools, University run training schools, social justice schools and certainly others that I'm not aware of.
It all sounds like too much - but everyone I know was able to get it sorted out. You are deeply anxious about doing everything you can to provide the best you can for your kid. But you don't need to answer all these questions today.
Remember that school isn't a permanent situation and if it's not working out you can switch classes, you can switch schools. I've known several folks who have moved, and moved again because it's just not possible to know this future.
I have been working in this field in Illinois for over a decade now - feel free to shoot me a message with questions.
posted by zenon at 1:31 PM on July 1 [1 favorite]
I wanted to strongly second the "walkability" part. My kid's school is a 10 min drive or 30 min walk. This means it's vanishingly unlikely that we'll ever have a spontaneous afterschool playdate at our house - if other kids wanted to come they'd either need to be driven by us - impossible as we can't fit enough car seats in our car - or by their own parents - unlikely as the need for a drive makes the playdate seem like a slog. That leads to less social time in general, more formality when socializing does happen, and thus less practice. It all accumulates, so the kid's social skills can lag a bit if they spend too much time in the car commuting when other kids are having afterschool playdates on, or close to, school property!
Meanwhile my friend lives right across from her son's school - and her house is THE cool hangout place. Her place is not huge and it's not overly kid friendly - like it's not full of toys or a rec room. But she's welcoming to the kids and there's lots of seating, and most of all, it's SO close to the school! Meaning that every single day after school, 6 boys, age 12, tumble in her door and drape themselves all over her living room for an hour or so. This means her son is very popular, partly because it is SO easy to hang out with him - thus he's had a ton of practice at hanging out! And my friend knows all his friends and their parents, leading to lots of trust, sleepovers, etc.
It adds SO much to a family's life to be able to easily host the child' friends!! Kids who can host frequent after school playdates will have more friends, develop better social skills, be happier, and it'll be way easier for you to spot any unhealthy patterns early. So... DO try to be as close as possible to a school. Within a 3 minute walk is absolute social gold!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:42 PM on July 1 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile my friend lives right across from her son's school - and her house is THE cool hangout place. Her place is not huge and it's not overly kid friendly - like it's not full of toys or a rec room. But she's welcoming to the kids and there's lots of seating, and most of all, it's SO close to the school! Meaning that every single day after school, 6 boys, age 12, tumble in her door and drape themselves all over her living room for an hour or so. This means her son is very popular, partly because it is SO easy to hang out with him - thus he's had a ton of practice at hanging out! And my friend knows all his friends and their parents, leading to lots of trust, sleepovers, etc.
It adds SO much to a family's life to be able to easily host the child' friends!! Kids who can host frequent after school playdates will have more friends, develop better social skills, be happier, and it'll be way easier for you to spot any unhealthy patterns early. So... DO try to be as close as possible to a school. Within a 3 minute walk is absolute social gold!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:42 PM on July 1 [5 favorites]
Meanwhile my friend lives right across from her son's school - and her house is THE cool hangout place. Her place is not huge and it's not overly kid friendly - like it's not full of toys or a rec room. But she's welcoming to the kids and there's lots of seating, and most of all, it's SO close to the school!
I live about a 15-minute walk from where my kids attended elementary, a 10-minute walk from the middle school, and we are pretty close to the high school too. And this is what my house was like, in late middle school and early high school (pre-pandemic; my kids are older now). I made some intentional decisions about where I wanted my kids to attend school based on their race and the demographics of the local schools, and then we moved close to it, and I credit my kids' very strong, long friendships to our being fully part of the neighborhood and neighborhood school. Life with kids is much easier when school, soccer, PTA meetings, friends, and other community activities are close to home. It makes your life richer and easier. And, likely safer, since car crashes are a leading cause of death for kids.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:46 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
I live about a 15-minute walk from where my kids attended elementary, a 10-minute walk from the middle school, and we are pretty close to the high school too. And this is what my house was like, in late middle school and early high school (pre-pandemic; my kids are older now). I made some intentional decisions about where I wanted my kids to attend school based on their race and the demographics of the local schools, and then we moved close to it, and I credit my kids' very strong, long friendships to our being fully part of the neighborhood and neighborhood school. Life with kids is much easier when school, soccer, PTA meetings, friends, and other community activities are close to home. It makes your life richer and easier. And, likely safer, since car crashes are a leading cause of death for kids.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:46 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
I don’t personally believe that true “quality” of education really matters under 5th grade or so when you actually have foundational education classes. For future parents the whole administration of any given school will likely change by the time your children are in class. Cell phone policies, extra curricular activities, etc, will all change.
So, with that in mind, you have a few choices. Go with the districts that have the population makeup that you find desirable (affluent districts). These will usually have higher millage rates as well (property taxes). Choose to live somewhere where you can select your district. Or, plan to move when your child reaches the age of 10 or so. Last, you can say “screw it” and live somewhere that has less good schools, with the philosophy that home life and parents and whatever (not having lead in pipes?) makes more of a difference than particular school.
My parents moved when I was around 12 for this reason. Making this choice myself, I chose a relatively affluent district, but wouldn’t be surprised if I moved to a different district around a similar age once you can actually talk to the current administration for your kids.
posted by bbqturtle at 4:30 AM on July 2
So, with that in mind, you have a few choices. Go with the districts that have the population makeup that you find desirable (affluent districts). These will usually have higher millage rates as well (property taxes). Choose to live somewhere where you can select your district. Or, plan to move when your child reaches the age of 10 or so. Last, you can say “screw it” and live somewhere that has less good schools, with the philosophy that home life and parents and whatever (not having lead in pipes?) makes more of a difference than particular school.
My parents moved when I was around 12 for this reason. Making this choice myself, I chose a relatively affluent district, but wouldn’t be surprised if I moved to a different district around a similar age once you can actually talk to the current administration for your kids.
posted by bbqturtle at 4:30 AM on July 2
As much as you can, evaluate the parents - by far the most important driver of school experience / quality. Go to pick-up and drop-off a few times. Get a feel for it.
Read the district's (and your likely schools') websites and social media. You can be pretty sure that their aspirations and outcomes will not be any better than they are touting online. If you find them off-putting or uninspiring ... move on. (Plenty fail to achieve those aspirations or honestly report their outcomes, so don't take inspiring online content as a guarantee!)
Choose on the baseline offering. Don't assume your kid will get into a gifted and talented program, selective arts, or magnet program. Those programs may cease to exist, or your kid might not qualify for them.
Be candid with yourself about how much you want the school to be about your kids. Schools with lots of poor kids prioritize their needs. A lot of liberal well-off parents are okay with this in the abstract, but not okay with it as they actually experience it. (See above on "baseline" and don't assume that there will be a G&T classroom that will spare you the dilemma.) All the relevant statistics are available from the U.S. Department of Education on a school-by-school and district-by-district basis.
Many districts have some good elementary schools, but no good middle schools and/or high schools. A lot of people are perfectly comfortable going private at middle school, but make sure that's a choice that you've made, not one that is thrust upon you. Tuition at a good private middle school may be $80,000 a year twelve years from now.
If you and your partner aren't jocks, think twice about sports-crazy districts. Odds are your kids won't be jocks and it sucks to spend 13 years as a second-class citizen.
posted by MattD at 4:52 AM on July 2 [1 favorite]
Read the district's (and your likely schools') websites and social media. You can be pretty sure that their aspirations and outcomes will not be any better than they are touting online. If you find them off-putting or uninspiring ... move on. (Plenty fail to achieve those aspirations or honestly report their outcomes, so don't take inspiring online content as a guarantee!)
Choose on the baseline offering. Don't assume your kid will get into a gifted and talented program, selective arts, or magnet program. Those programs may cease to exist, or your kid might not qualify for them.
Be candid with yourself about how much you want the school to be about your kids. Schools with lots of poor kids prioritize their needs. A lot of liberal well-off parents are okay with this in the abstract, but not okay with it as they actually experience it. (See above on "baseline" and don't assume that there will be a G&T classroom that will spare you the dilemma.) All the relevant statistics are available from the U.S. Department of Education on a school-by-school and district-by-district basis.
Many districts have some good elementary schools, but no good middle schools and/or high schools. A lot of people are perfectly comfortable going private at middle school, but make sure that's a choice that you've made, not one that is thrust upon you. Tuition at a good private middle school may be $80,000 a year twelve years from now.
If you and your partner aren't jocks, think twice about sports-crazy districts. Odds are your kids won't be jocks and it sucks to spend 13 years as a second-class citizen.
posted by MattD at 4:52 AM on July 2 [1 favorite]
You may end up finding that assessing schools now does not end up paying off for you later. First, because you don't know your kid yet and what they will need. My kids attend a very highly ranked suburban school district with rave reviews from parents, and it sucks for them because the expectation is that the kids all fit in one box. Their friends at worse ranked city schools are having better experiences, in part because the teachers are more accustomed to accommodating differences within the classroom. (And I don't recommend relying on IEPs to take care of that in wealthier districts; they often don't offer what we want for our kids and instead push things we very much DON'T, like ABA). Second, because school culture can change quickly depending on its leadership, and there's a lot of time for that to shift between now and when your kid finishes school.
posted by metasarah at 3:40 PM on July 2
posted by metasarah at 3:40 PM on July 2
I would not move based on a school now, when your kid isn't even born yet. Schools can change a LOT in five years. If you want to consider schools when buying now, just pick based on scores. Once your kid is more like four years old is the time to actually look around. I know it stinks that you have to wait so long, but seriously - my local school was literally torn down and rebuilt and hired a new principal in the time between when I bought my house with a toddler and when my kid would have started school there.
As it happened, I went on a tour and was pretty stunned by how disrespectful the principal was to me and the other prospective parents, and none of my kids have ever actually attended said school. The new building looks very nice though.
posted by potrzebie at 12:21 AM on July 3 [1 favorite]
As it happened, I went on a tour and was pretty stunned by how disrespectful the principal was to me and the other prospective parents, and none of my kids have ever actually attended said school. The new building looks very nice though.
posted by potrzebie at 12:21 AM on July 3 [1 favorite]
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Final decision was between two great schools and we went with gut feel based on the tour (how the kids in the classroom felt - relaxed yet bright, the teachers had been there a long time which is a good sign, the campus amenities and extracurriculars etc.)
posted by St. Peepsburg at 9:34 PM on June 30 [1 favorite]