Puppy Potty Training Regression
June 15, 2024 7:21 PM Subscribe
I have a 9 month old puppy who I adopted in February as a rescue from a hoarding case. We've had ups and downs with potty training, but lately it's regressed to the point where I'm at my wits end and don't know what to do anymore. Please help.
Cinnabon is nine months old. I got her in February at five months old. She spent the first few months of her life living in a trailer with 28 other dogs, and I'm assuming got conditioned to peeing on soft surfaces because every time she has an accident in the house, she prefers to do it on my couch or my bed or something else soft, almost never on the floor. We've had varying degrees of success with potty training where I felt we were making progress but she’s never fully “gotten it”. In the beginning I started taking her outside every hour or so, making a big deal with treats and praise when she pottied outside. Gradually that moved to every couple of hours as she seemed to learn how to hold it longer. I have been crating her when unable to directly supervise her in the house and taking her outside to go potty first thing out of the crate. We worked up to where she could hold it in the crate for up to 6 hours when I would leave the house. In the middle of the night she'd whine if she had to go potty and I'd take her outside. Though we had a few setbacks, I felt like we were making progress overall and I was just trying to break her of indoor accidents maybe once or twice a week.
But now she's started pooping/peeing freely in her crate and I can’t get her to stop. I feel like all the progress we made has completely gone out the window. I removed the crate pad completely after she peed in there three times a few nights ago (switching it out for a fresh one each time) to see if removing the soft surface would help. That seemed to work for a couple of days but now she's back to peeing/pooping freely in the crate without letting me know, even if she just went potty outside an hour before. I’ve been cleaning it thoroughly with enzyme cleaner each time. It's both pee and poop, and I honestly don't believe she has a UTI or anything of the sort.
I’ve gone back to square one where we started four months ago, taking her outside every hour to go potty during the daytime. 90% of the time she does listen and “go potty” outside when I tell her to, but she is just NOT grasping the fact that it’s not okay to go inside, and she’s not even trying to hold it anymore or signal to me that she has to go potty even when I crate her. The crate was the one tool I had that seemed to kind of help with reinforcement and learning to hold it, and now that has completely gone out the window.
Although I've had many other dogs, they've all come to me already housebroken, so this is my first time trying to potty train a puppy. I believe this is exacerbated by the fact that she spent her first few months in a hoarding situation, as none of my friends puppies have been this difficult to potty train. I am at my wits end and need a step by step guide on how to best address this please. I am SO tired of the constant laundry, the cleaning, and the stench, and beyond frustrated and unsure where to go from here.
Cinnabon is nine months old. I got her in February at five months old. She spent the first few months of her life living in a trailer with 28 other dogs, and I'm assuming got conditioned to peeing on soft surfaces because every time she has an accident in the house, she prefers to do it on my couch or my bed or something else soft, almost never on the floor. We've had varying degrees of success with potty training where I felt we were making progress but she’s never fully “gotten it”. In the beginning I started taking her outside every hour or so, making a big deal with treats and praise when she pottied outside. Gradually that moved to every couple of hours as she seemed to learn how to hold it longer. I have been crating her when unable to directly supervise her in the house and taking her outside to go potty first thing out of the crate. We worked up to where she could hold it in the crate for up to 6 hours when I would leave the house. In the middle of the night she'd whine if she had to go potty and I'd take her outside. Though we had a few setbacks, I felt like we were making progress overall and I was just trying to break her of indoor accidents maybe once or twice a week.
But now she's started pooping/peeing freely in her crate and I can’t get her to stop. I feel like all the progress we made has completely gone out the window. I removed the crate pad completely after she peed in there three times a few nights ago (switching it out for a fresh one each time) to see if removing the soft surface would help. That seemed to work for a couple of days but now she's back to peeing/pooping freely in the crate without letting me know, even if she just went potty outside an hour before. I’ve been cleaning it thoroughly with enzyme cleaner each time. It's both pee and poop, and I honestly don't believe she has a UTI or anything of the sort.
I’ve gone back to square one where we started four months ago, taking her outside every hour to go potty during the daytime. 90% of the time she does listen and “go potty” outside when I tell her to, but she is just NOT grasping the fact that it’s not okay to go inside, and she’s not even trying to hold it anymore or signal to me that she has to go potty even when I crate her. The crate was the one tool I had that seemed to kind of help with reinforcement and learning to hold it, and now that has completely gone out the window.
Although I've had many other dogs, they've all come to me already housebroken, so this is my first time trying to potty train a puppy. I believe this is exacerbated by the fact that she spent her first few months in a hoarding situation, as none of my friends puppies have been this difficult to potty train. I am at my wits end and need a step by step guide on how to best address this please. I am SO tired of the constant laundry, the cleaning, and the stench, and beyond frustrated and unsure where to go from here.
In addition to what phunniemee said, I would consider this a good reason for a vet visit, just to make sure there is no medical reason for the uncontrolled toileting.
posted by praemunire at 8:19 PM on June 15 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 8:19 PM on June 15 [1 favorite]
Is she only pooping and peeing in the crate at night, when she can't get out, or does she go in there to poop and pee?
Does she poop and pee elsewhere indoors?
If it's only in the crate at night, it might be that it's just that she can't hold it that long (yet?), rather than she doesn't understand where she's not allowed to poop.
Vet visit is definitely a good idea.
posted by Zumbador at 8:46 PM on June 15
Does she poop and pee elsewhere indoors?
If it's only in the crate at night, it might be that it's just that she can't hold it that long (yet?), rather than she doesn't understand where she's not allowed to poop.
Vet visit is definitely a good idea.
posted by Zumbador at 8:46 PM on June 15
Response by poster: She's only pooping and peeing in the crate when she can't get out of it, but for the last three months or so she would regularly hold it for up to six hours at a time in the crate any time I left the house, save for a couple of times when she really had to poop. So I know she's had the ability to hold it in the past.
But now, for example today, she went outside and peed, and then I put her in the crate so I could take a nap. I woke up 90 minutes later to find she had peed again in the crate.
Or for the last few months, I would take her out potty before we went to bed, and then put her in the crate. 90% of the time she would start whining at me in the middle of the night after about five hours, I'd take her out to go potty, and then back to the crate until morning. But recently every night it's been more like, I take her out potty, put her in the crate, wake up to whining one to three hours later after she's already peed and/or pooped in the crate, take her out to go potty, clean up crate. Repeat several times throughout the night within 2-3 hours where she won't whine until after she's already pottied and has been laying in it.
She will potty other places in the house if I don't catch her in time to take her out.
I will schedule a vet visit ASAP.
posted by Malleable at 9:46 PM on June 15 [1 favorite]
But now, for example today, she went outside and peed, and then I put her in the crate so I could take a nap. I woke up 90 minutes later to find she had peed again in the crate.
Or for the last few months, I would take her out potty before we went to bed, and then put her in the crate. 90% of the time she would start whining at me in the middle of the night after about five hours, I'd take her out to go potty, and then back to the crate until morning. But recently every night it's been more like, I take her out potty, put her in the crate, wake up to whining one to three hours later after she's already peed and/or pooped in the crate, take her out to go potty, clean up crate. Repeat several times throughout the night within 2-3 hours where she won't whine until after she's already pottied and has been laying in it.
She will potty other places in the house if I don't catch her in time to take her out.
I will schedule a vet visit ASAP.
posted by Malleable at 9:46 PM on June 15 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Is she having more accidents in general? Or is the only change that the crate is no longer helpful because she's okay using that as a bathroom now?
It sounds more like the latter, from your description. Two possible explanations:
- Your dog has a bladder infection. Dogs with bladder infections cannot be housetrained. In some ways, this would be your best-case scenario because it's quickly fixed with meds and you wouldn't have to worry about training mistakes. For ease of diagnosis, you might want to bring a urine sample to your appointment. (Easily obtainable by sliding a flat container under your dog from behind as she's squatting. Then pour in a jar.) Be aware that UTIs are really painful, so get an appointment as soon as you can. That she's peeing and pooping, by the way, wouldn't be unusual: The UTI makes it impossible not to soil the crate. Then, once it's declared an official bathroom, all bets are off.
- Cinnabon no longer sees her crate as "home". This can happen when dogs have accidents in their crates just once, often after being left for too long or because of medical problems. It's like the crate is no longer a special place, and it just loses its magic. Turning a crate into a home again is achieved by getting a new crate or meticulously cleaning the old one and getting new bedding. You'll then have to make the crate as cozy as possible (so taking out the pad is not likely to be the solution). Soft blanket, a pillow or stuffed animal, enough room to stretch out... And lastly, it helps immensely to have the dog eat in the crate. From a bowl in a pinch, but Kongs and chews are even better because the licking and chewing promotes relaxation.
However. No matter why Cinnabon is soiling the crate, this situation is awful for all of you. Personally, I'd make some changes so housetraining can continue without additional trauma. Because lying in her own waste is unhealthy for Cinnabon, physically (it can cause UTIs and tons of other problems) and mentally (not a stretch to assume it's reminding her of her first home).
I believe this is exacerbated by the fact that she spent her first few months in a hoarding situation, as none of my friends puppies have been this difficult to potty train.
100%. Your project is probably ten times as difficult as the average housetraining work. Your dog has learned to use the bathroom indoors, she's become desensitized to proximity to her own waste, and she's learned that there is no room for separate spaces (dogs naturally want to eat and sleep far away from their bathroom area). Not sure if it's helpful to hear "Could be worse", but many dogs from hoarding situations need months or years to even start peeing outdoors at all. On that note, you're also really lucky that a dog with this type of difficult puppyhood is staying home alone without issues. Or...is she? Have you filmed her while home alone to make sure she's not in distress? Because separation anxiety can also cause housetraining issues.
Anyway, solutions. I'd gate off a small room or make an exercise pen in a bigger one. Then, safely in her area, you can leave Cinnabon home alone in a healthy way. You can put vinyl or something similar down to protect your floor. Then put in
- a comfortable crate or bed that already smells like Cinnabon
- a puppy toilet made of natural substance, as recommended by Ian Dunbar, with some drops of her urine. You could use turf, like he does, but a tray of leaves and grass works too
- a very soft "transitional toilet" made up of pillows covered by puppy pads and/or towels
- water bowl, flip-proof if she's rambunctious
- Kongs and other safe puzzle feeders/toys
Maybe it feels awful to accept any sort of indoor toilet situation, even temporary? Trust me, though, this is the opposite of giving up. Housetraining consists of three separate skills:
- understanding that you don't just squat where you stand
- learning to choose one particular bathroom substance (humans usually insist on grass, but for a dog with Cinnabon's history, a transitional toilet of puppy pads is a really good idea. The only reason to avoid puppy pads is that they unnecessarily confuse dogs who might do better never learning that going indoors is even an option. But your furry friend is already confused to the highest level, courtesy of her first owners. That ship has sailed.)
- alerting those who can open doors when you're physically separated from your bathroom substance, but need to go
It sounds like Cinnabon is struggling with the first point. Not a surprise, given her past. But that's why putting her in the crate is detrimental. She's going where she stands because she has no choice. In an exercise pen, she'd be able to walk away from her bed and food, choosing to go to her toilet. She desperately needs to re-learn this for any housetraining to succeed. Once she walks over to her chosen toilet reliably while in her pen, it's very likely that she'll transfer the skill to the whole house, room by room. And then, it's not that tricky to put the chosen toilet closer to the door, and eventually outside.
Good luck, and hang in there. I know how frustrating this is. Having a concrete plan can really help, so if this thread and the vet appointment don't solve the problem, consider booking a session with a force-free trainer. It'll feel much better once you see first successes.
posted by toucan at 1:54 PM on June 16 [4 favorites]
It sounds more like the latter, from your description. Two possible explanations:
- Your dog has a bladder infection. Dogs with bladder infections cannot be housetrained. In some ways, this would be your best-case scenario because it's quickly fixed with meds and you wouldn't have to worry about training mistakes. For ease of diagnosis, you might want to bring a urine sample to your appointment. (Easily obtainable by sliding a flat container under your dog from behind as she's squatting. Then pour in a jar.) Be aware that UTIs are really painful, so get an appointment as soon as you can. That she's peeing and pooping, by the way, wouldn't be unusual: The UTI makes it impossible not to soil the crate. Then, once it's declared an official bathroom, all bets are off.
- Cinnabon no longer sees her crate as "home". This can happen when dogs have accidents in their crates just once, often after being left for too long or because of medical problems. It's like the crate is no longer a special place, and it just loses its magic. Turning a crate into a home again is achieved by getting a new crate or meticulously cleaning the old one and getting new bedding. You'll then have to make the crate as cozy as possible (so taking out the pad is not likely to be the solution). Soft blanket, a pillow or stuffed animal, enough room to stretch out... And lastly, it helps immensely to have the dog eat in the crate. From a bowl in a pinch, but Kongs and chews are even better because the licking and chewing promotes relaxation.
However. No matter why Cinnabon is soiling the crate, this situation is awful for all of you. Personally, I'd make some changes so housetraining can continue without additional trauma. Because lying in her own waste is unhealthy for Cinnabon, physically (it can cause UTIs and tons of other problems) and mentally (not a stretch to assume it's reminding her of her first home).
I believe this is exacerbated by the fact that she spent her first few months in a hoarding situation, as none of my friends puppies have been this difficult to potty train.
100%. Your project is probably ten times as difficult as the average housetraining work. Your dog has learned to use the bathroom indoors, she's become desensitized to proximity to her own waste, and she's learned that there is no room for separate spaces (dogs naturally want to eat and sleep far away from their bathroom area). Not sure if it's helpful to hear "Could be worse", but many dogs from hoarding situations need months or years to even start peeing outdoors at all. On that note, you're also really lucky that a dog with this type of difficult puppyhood is staying home alone without issues. Or...is she? Have you filmed her while home alone to make sure she's not in distress? Because separation anxiety can also cause housetraining issues.
Anyway, solutions. I'd gate off a small room or make an exercise pen in a bigger one. Then, safely in her area, you can leave Cinnabon home alone in a healthy way. You can put vinyl or something similar down to protect your floor. Then put in
- a comfortable crate or bed that already smells like Cinnabon
- a puppy toilet made of natural substance, as recommended by Ian Dunbar, with some drops of her urine. You could use turf, like he does, but a tray of leaves and grass works too
- a very soft "transitional toilet" made up of pillows covered by puppy pads and/or towels
- water bowl, flip-proof if she's rambunctious
- Kongs and other safe puzzle feeders/toys
Maybe it feels awful to accept any sort of indoor toilet situation, even temporary? Trust me, though, this is the opposite of giving up. Housetraining consists of three separate skills:
- understanding that you don't just squat where you stand
- learning to choose one particular bathroom substance (humans usually insist on grass, but for a dog with Cinnabon's history, a transitional toilet of puppy pads is a really good idea. The only reason to avoid puppy pads is that they unnecessarily confuse dogs who might do better never learning that going indoors is even an option. But your furry friend is already confused to the highest level, courtesy of her first owners. That ship has sailed.)
- alerting those who can open doors when you're physically separated from your bathroom substance, but need to go
It sounds like Cinnabon is struggling with the first point. Not a surprise, given her past. But that's why putting her in the crate is detrimental. She's going where she stands because she has no choice. In an exercise pen, she'd be able to walk away from her bed and food, choosing to go to her toilet. She desperately needs to re-learn this for any housetraining to succeed. Once she walks over to her chosen toilet reliably while in her pen, it's very likely that she'll transfer the skill to the whole house, room by room. And then, it's not that tricky to put the chosen toilet closer to the door, and eventually outside.
Good luck, and hang in there. I know how frustrating this is. Having a concrete plan can really help, so if this thread and the vet appointment don't solve the problem, consider booking a session with a force-free trainer. It'll feel much better once you see first successes.
posted by toucan at 1:54 PM on June 16 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Photo of the adorable offender for puppy tax
Thank you SO much for the detailed response, toucan. This kind of thing is what I was looking for. I realized last night that I had a spare crate, so we switched her crate out completely and made it through the night with no accidents. She's had one accident in the house today, but amazingly it was near the door and on the floor instead of a soft surface. Fingers crossed that switching out the crate has solved the biggest part of the problem.
I do have cameras up to keep eyes on all of the pups when I leave the house, and she has acclimated to her crate surprisingly well. She mostly just naps when I'm gone. No signs of distress that I've seen.
I will definitely be trying out your other suggestions going forward and appreciate the detailed advice so very much. We also have a vet appointment set up for this week just to rule out any possible medical issues.
posted by Malleable at 2:38 PM on June 16 [1 favorite]
Thank you SO much for the detailed response, toucan. This kind of thing is what I was looking for. I realized last night that I had a spare crate, so we switched her crate out completely and made it through the night with no accidents. She's had one accident in the house today, but amazingly it was near the door and on the floor instead of a soft surface. Fingers crossed that switching out the crate has solved the biggest part of the problem.
I do have cameras up to keep eyes on all of the pups when I leave the house, and she has acclimated to her crate surprisingly well. She mostly just naps when I'm gone. No signs of distress that I've seen.
I will definitely be trying out your other suggestions going forward and appreciate the detailed advice so very much. We also have a vet appointment set up for this week just to rule out any possible medical issues.
posted by Malleable at 2:38 PM on June 16 [1 favorite]
LOOK AT TOUCAN SHE IS SO WORTH IT
posted by praemunire at 5:23 PM on June 16 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 5:23 PM on June 16 [1 favorite]
Happy to help, and after seeing that photo, I understand why you've taken on this "project". What a ball of adorableness! I really want to know how it's going and whether the vet was able to help!
posted by toucan at 1:00 PM on June 21
posted by toucan at 1:00 PM on June 21
Response by poster: All of the tests and exams done at the vet have come back clear so it doesn't appear to be a medical issue. The vet believes it to be behavioral due to her past. Someone in the rescue brought up the 3-3-3 rule and suggested these behaviors may be cropping up now after 3 months since she feels she can trust me and won't get yelled at/abused for going potty as she likely may have in her previous home. I didn't even think about the timing of that, but we were a little past 3 months when the regression started so that makes complete sense.
I've switched her to an exercise pen attached to her crate, with her bed and some toys and a potty pad, and that seems to be helping. She chooses to go potty on (or near) the pad rather than in her crate now.
Some days it seems like she's peeing every 30 minutes and other days she's able to hold it for several hours. I'm working on trying to take her outside on a regular schedule, treating and praise every time she potties outside, and hoping to eventually move the potty pads closer to the door and then outside to reinforce that behavior.
I feel pretty confident that although this may take much longer than I anticipated, we will get there eventually with time and building trust.
Cinnabon says thank you!
posted by Malleable at 9:07 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I've switched her to an exercise pen attached to her crate, with her bed and some toys and a potty pad, and that seems to be helping. She chooses to go potty on (or near) the pad rather than in her crate now.
Some days it seems like she's peeing every 30 minutes and other days she's able to hold it for several hours. I'm working on trying to take her outside on a regular schedule, treating and praise every time she potties outside, and hoping to eventually move the potty pads closer to the door and then outside to reinforce that behavior.
I feel pretty confident that although this may take much longer than I anticipated, we will get there eventually with time and building trust.
Cinnabon says thank you!
posted by Malleable at 9:07 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
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This isn't the first or probably even the third time I've shared this story on metafilter because it's happened to other puppy owners too, and a few other dog owners I know in real life. I'm not a dog behavior expert, but anecdotally this seems to be just a thing that some puppies do.
Sorry this sucks. Hopefully it passes soon.
posted by phunniemee at 7:30 PM on June 15 [6 favorites]