With expansion screws borrowed from your aunt
May 20, 2024 7:51 PM Subscribe
Could you realistically actually expand a room using galvanized steel beams (and eco friendly wood veneers)?
There is a meme right now about a TikTok account that posts unhinged home renovation ideas for situations like "a 1.8sqm room" or "my wife accidentally had triplets". In almost every video, the solution starts off with using galvanized steel beams to expand the space (often with expansion screws borrowed from someone's aunt) and covering it up with eco friendly wood veneers.
The room ideas are ridiculous and nobody should be following their advice, but what I'm curious about is: is this actually a viable solution? People have been sharing videos of high-rises where one unit seems to have been expanded a bit further out than the rest of the building - do people do this already?
I would imagine that wood veneers won't have nearly enough strength to hold a human being (plus their out-of-season quilts) from plummeting to the ground, and you can't just install bathroom fixings and switches in places that don't have electrical or plumbing hookups. But are there any elements of those videos that are actually practically possible?
There is a meme right now about a TikTok account that posts unhinged home renovation ideas for situations like "a 1.8sqm room" or "my wife accidentally had triplets". In almost every video, the solution starts off with using galvanized steel beams to expand the space (often with expansion screws borrowed from someone's aunt) and covering it up with eco friendly wood veneers.
The room ideas are ridiculous and nobody should be following their advice, but what I'm curious about is: is this actually a viable solution? People have been sharing videos of high-rises where one unit seems to have been expanded a bit further out than the rest of the building - do people do this already?
I would imagine that wood veneers won't have nearly enough strength to hold a human being (plus their out-of-season quilts) from plummeting to the ground, and you can't just install bathroom fixings and switches in places that don't have electrical or plumbing hookups. But are there any elements of those videos that are actually practically possible?
Response by poster: Legality is one thing, but is it actually possible or will the expansion crumple at the slightest bit of weight?
posted by creatrixtiara at 8:23 PM on May 20
posted by creatrixtiara at 8:23 PM on May 20
Best answer: You can, of course, cantilever living space out beyond the vertical load bearing elements of a building (this is basically what every apartment balcony in a high rise is). You could certainly use structural steel for this purpose, though these are generally concrete with rebar. The problem is that to cantilever out, you need your structural members to extend into the interior of the building to resist the forces due to the weight of the structure and occupants. What doesn't work is attaching the structural members of your cantilevered floor with expansion bolts. The force on those bolts would be enormous and they would fail (because the bolts are short and the beam is long, so because torque is force times distance, to balance the torque you need a much, much larger force at the very short distance of the length of the bolt).
I'm sure there would be some way to engineer such a structure so that it was light enough that it would hang on to the side of the building with many and sufficiently long bolts, but it really wouldn't be a good idea. Earthquakes and wind loads would make this even less feasible.
Climbers sleep on platforms that hang from cliffs held up by expansion bolts, but those bolts are crucially above the platform, supporting it through rope and webbing. A similar design could probably be used for light living quarters (e.g. supporting the steel platform with steel wire anchored above attached to the outer edge of the platform).
Cases where the steel beams are filling in an area surrounded on three sides by building are probably more feasible, because you are no longer cantilevering the structure out.
None of this would be code compliant though.
In some countries, you often see that people have converted their apartment balconies into interior living space.
posted by ssg at 8:53 PM on May 20 [6 favorites]
I'm sure there would be some way to engineer such a structure so that it was light enough that it would hang on to the side of the building with many and sufficiently long bolts, but it really wouldn't be a good idea. Earthquakes and wind loads would make this even less feasible.
Climbers sleep on platforms that hang from cliffs held up by expansion bolts, but those bolts are crucially above the platform, supporting it through rope and webbing. A similar design could probably be used for light living quarters (e.g. supporting the steel platform with steel wire anchored above attached to the outer edge of the platform).
Cases where the steel beams are filling in an area surrounded on three sides by building are probably more feasible, because you are no longer cantilevering the structure out.
None of this would be code compliant though.
In some countries, you often see that people have converted their apartment balconies into interior living space.
posted by ssg at 8:53 PM on May 20 [6 favorites]
On some level, it is possible to do some of the things they describe, particularly with wall-mounted shelving, bunk beds/loft beds, etc. To do it in a way that doesn't look crummy or doesn't break immediately requires very skilled labor & $$$$ for materials. Logistical issues with "get a very skilled carpenter" aside, I think the idea is less appealing if it costs a lot of money. One might look at these videos and think "with DIY anything is possible" but I don't think it's wise or safe to do a lot of that stuff DIY, not without getting a lot of carpentry practice in first.
Also, just as a matter of aesthetics and other structural preferences, not everyone wants to be entirely surrounded by free-standing and floating wall storage units on all walls of every room of the living space, which is a trope that these videos seem to lean on heavily.
I couldn't find any examples of cantilevering the space out of the structure, but I did see at least one video where they practically arm-waved the ceiling away to get a taller space, lmao
posted by brianvan at 9:14 PM on May 20
Also, just as a matter of aesthetics and other structural preferences, not everyone wants to be entirely surrounded by free-standing and floating wall storage units on all walls of every room of the living space, which is a trope that these videos seem to lean on heavily.
I couldn't find any examples of cantilevering the space out of the structure, but I did see at least one video where they practically arm-waved the ceiling away to get a taller space, lmao
posted by brianvan at 9:14 PM on May 20
Legality is one thing, but is it actually possible or will the expansion crumple at the slightest bit of weight?
This depends upon the specific building in question (structural frame, foundation, substructure, code reqs for wind, etc. If you knew the details you wouldn't be asking in the first place...).
Nobody can answer this in the abstract. Do you have plans showing the as-installed reinforcing? Did they use A325 or A490 bolts? Why don't you know the difference? Is there a difference in your case? Maybe not!
...you are effectively asking "can I win my lawsuit?" without supplying any information about your lawsuit.
Yes, people have gotten away with it. Tens of thousands have been lucky. Millions, even.
...but in the absence of information, the appropriate answer is No.
The world is full of people making terrible decisions. That they are plentiful does not mean they're right. Building codes are written in blood, repeatedly.
So, in the abstract: yeah, in suitable conditions it'll work. I don't need to know anything about it. No problem. If it fails, well, that's a YOU thing not a ME thing. I told you not to listen to me it's your problem when you die, and it's your problem when you kill that mother and her child.
[sorry, but really, building codes are written in the blood of people who thought they could just make something work. People who then died horribly, and in most cases took innocents with them, and believe me I've spent enough time on forensics. Enough fucking kids who got cut in half because some fucking connected motherfucker decided he could skimp on the perimeter framing.]
posted by aramaic at 9:15 PM on May 20 [2 favorites]
This depends upon the specific building in question (structural frame, foundation, substructure, code reqs for wind, etc. If you knew the details you wouldn't be asking in the first place...).
Nobody can answer this in the abstract. Do you have plans showing the as-installed reinforcing? Did they use A325 or A490 bolts? Why don't you know the difference? Is there a difference in your case? Maybe not!
...you are effectively asking "can I win my lawsuit?" without supplying any information about your lawsuit.
Yes, people have gotten away with it. Tens of thousands have been lucky. Millions, even.
...but in the absence of information, the appropriate answer is No.
The world is full of people making terrible decisions. That they are plentiful does not mean they're right. Building codes are written in blood, repeatedly.
So, in the abstract: yeah, in suitable conditions it'll work. I don't need to know anything about it. No problem. If it fails, well, that's a YOU thing not a ME thing. I told you not to listen to me it's your problem when you die, and it's your problem when you kill that mother and her child.
[sorry, but really, building codes are written in the blood of people who thought they could just make something work. People who then died horribly, and in most cases took innocents with them, and believe me I've spent enough time on forensics. Enough fucking kids who got cut in half because some fucking connected motherfucker decided he could skimp on the perimeter framing.]
posted by aramaic at 9:15 PM on May 20 [2 favorites]
one unit seems to have been expanded a bit further out than the rest of the building - do people do this already?Simply to address it as a matter of practical possibility the answer has to be yes. Nineteenth century builders and owners constantly pushed the envelope of strutted extensions, mostly in timber. Vernacular and improvised extensions to tall buildings has been something that's been done in very many cities, from the earliest times, the Kowloon Walled City being maybe the most extreme, where the extensions (new rooms, new corridors, new stairwells) were internal rather than external. Cantilevering out is a well-attested, demanding, construction technique. Is it practical? Absolutely. Can an amateur do it with box section steel and ply? Only with huge risk.
For what it's worth the other risk involved isn't structural collapse (though that's the big one), it's the risk of fires and evacuation where there are more people and more stuff in the building than the design allows for.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:55 PM on May 20 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I feel like I should make myself clearer that I'm not interested in making this for myself, nor do I think anyone should, like I said in the rest of my post. I just want to know if galvanized steel beams and eco friendly wood veneers are strong enough to withstand the sort of processes these videos are suggesting, or if this is physically impossible.
posted by creatrixtiara at 11:27 PM on May 20 [1 favorite]
posted by creatrixtiara at 11:27 PM on May 20 [1 favorite]
For starters, IANYArchitect.
> is it actually possible or will the expansion crumple at the slightest bit of weight?
On some level, it is possible to do some of the things they describe, particularly with wall-mounted shelving, bunk beds/loft beds, etc.
Yes, the ground level.
building codes are written in the blood of people ... Enough fucking kids who got cut in half because some fucking connected motherfucker decided he could skimp on the perimeter framing.
Maps also.
But are there any elements of those videos that are actually practically possible?
Durability is another consideration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization#Eventual_corrosion .
Will such and such construction be sustainable? Jettied Tudors linked have lasted for centuries: wattle, daub, and timber.
posted by HearHere at 11:49 PM on May 20 [1 favorite]
> is it actually possible or will the expansion crumple at the slightest bit of weight?
On some level, it is possible to do some of the things they describe, particularly with wall-mounted shelving, bunk beds/loft beds, etc.
Yes, the ground level.
building codes are written in the blood of people ... Enough fucking kids who got cut in half because some fucking connected motherfucker decided he could skimp on the perimeter framing.
Maps also.
But are there any elements of those videos that are actually practically possible?
Durability is another consideration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization#Eventual_corrosion .
Will such and such construction be sustainable? Jettied Tudors linked have lasted for centuries: wattle, daub, and timber.
posted by HearHere at 11:49 PM on May 20 [1 favorite]
Can someone also please explain where this meme originated? The very specific phrases seem key here.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:54 AM on May 21
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:54 AM on May 21
I got as far as the triplets video and nopenopenope. No way are those safe for rambunctious children to use as platforms for bullying their sister. The basic design isn't terrible, but the materials are wrong.
An architect I was working with for a wooden second-story deck said that for every foot cantilevered out, we needed (I think) three feet supporting it on the other side. And that was just for a little platform at the top of some stairs. In the end it still got two big posts running to the ground because the building inspector said.
posted by teremala at 4:56 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
An architect I was working with for a wooden second-story deck said that for every foot cantilevered out, we needed (I think) three feet supporting it on the other side. And that was just for a little platform at the top of some stairs. In the end it still got two big posts running to the ground because the building inspector said.
posted by teremala at 4:56 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Can someone also please explain where this meme originated? The very specific phrases seem key here.
This specific TikTok account. They may have started with more legitimate ideas, but ever since "galvanized steel beams with eco friendly wood veneers and expansion screws from your aunt in a tiny room" got viral, every other video incorporates those specific elements, likely just to keep the meme going.
posted by creatrixtiara at 6:48 AM on May 21
This specific TikTok account. They may have started with more legitimate ideas, but ever since "galvanized steel beams with eco friendly wood veneers and expansion screws from your aunt in a tiny room" got viral, every other video incorporates those specific elements, likely just to keep the meme going.
posted by creatrixtiara at 6:48 AM on May 21
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Yes, there are places where you can extend your dwelling in the manner described (whether they should or should not is a separate matter). There are also (many) places where expanding the dwelling in the manner you describe would be absurdly illegal and would result in semi-immediate imprisonment or a substantial lien placed against the property such that it cannot be sold.
...so, what Authority Has Jurisdiction in your specific area?
I use these words on purpose, because they have specific legal meanings in most (not all) places and if you don't know, then the answer is no.
posted by aramaic at 8:19 PM on May 20