How to have smoother smalltalk with my status-conscious coworker?
April 9, 2024 6:37 AM Subscribe
My employer has a periodic off-site for executives and investors. Many of them seem to be "performing status" by wearing the latest trends & Rolexes, and talking about the Hamptons and Europe travel. I listen and also talk about my own hobbies, which works fine for conversation with all my colleagues except one guy. He gets visibly offended. How can I make smalltalk with him without leading to friction?
Periodically, my company gathers together its department heads and a couple investors to review the latest results and discuss upcoming strategy.
Almost all of them are white, and I'm not. The women dye their hair blonde and wear the latest trends. The men wear Rolex watches. They talk to each other about their summer in the Hamptons or remodeling their vacation home. I don't feel a desire to do any of these things but during meals and breaks, I'm able to have upbeat chitchat with all of them except one guy "Jed" who is my peer from another department.
When making smalltalk with my colleagues, I ask curious questions about their topics, and I also talk about my own hobbies such as hiking and traveling in South America. This generally goes well. Sometimes one of my colleagues will seem off-balance and say things like "Wow, I don't usually hear about people traveling there!" But they adjust and we have cheerful smalltalk. I feel respected, and it seems they do too.
Jed is in finance. At our work meetings, he's usually suggesting ways to become more profitable. Some of his ideas are great and embraced by other leaders. Other times, he has ideas about doing layoffs or salary reductions which would damage morale and would barely move the needle on profitability, and he receives a lot of pushback. The company generally does not implement those ideas. It used to bother me when Jed brought up these ideas because I felt empathetic towards the employees who would be negatively impacted. Now I see that the company acts responsibly towards employees and it doesn't bother me when Jed floats these ideas.
At meal times when I make smalltalk with Jed, it often ends up with him getting visibly offended. Once he was talking about being excited to get a new Rolex, and I asked what the biggest differences are between his various Rolexes. He got irritated. Also he mentioned that his children are always curious about his Rolexes, and I said it's cool that he can share this interest with them. He got offended and said he would never want his children to get into the habit of wanting Rolexes at their young ages. Similar things have happened when he mentions aspects of living in New York City. I asked curious questions (which usually leads to genial smalltalk with others) and he got offended.
Another time, he mentioned one of his work projects from many months ago. That project had a big positive impact on the company, but I was only slightly aware of it because I'm in a different department. I asked him about it, and he seemed offended that I knew so little about his project. While I can see his point, he knows even less about the projects I'm responsible for (which directly impact the company's revenue and profitability), and he doesn't seem interested.
I don't like the dynamic where I inadvertently offend Jed most times that we have smalltalk, and he stalks off annoyed. I'm not interested in playing the "signaling status via clothing and vacation spots" game, and I'm able to just be myself and have cheerful smalltalk with everyone except Jed. Conversations with other people sometimes start off stilted because the other person doesn't know what to expect, but it usually leads to satisfying happy conversations. Except with Jed.
When doing smalltalk with Jed, would it work better to always redirect to safe topics like weather / movies / TV shows? What advice do you have for making these conversations with Jed smoother? Thanks!
Periodically, my company gathers together its department heads and a couple investors to review the latest results and discuss upcoming strategy.
Almost all of them are white, and I'm not. The women dye their hair blonde and wear the latest trends. The men wear Rolex watches. They talk to each other about their summer in the Hamptons or remodeling their vacation home. I don't feel a desire to do any of these things but during meals and breaks, I'm able to have upbeat chitchat with all of them except one guy "Jed" who is my peer from another department.
When making smalltalk with my colleagues, I ask curious questions about their topics, and I also talk about my own hobbies such as hiking and traveling in South America. This generally goes well. Sometimes one of my colleagues will seem off-balance and say things like "Wow, I don't usually hear about people traveling there!" But they adjust and we have cheerful smalltalk. I feel respected, and it seems they do too.
Jed is in finance. At our work meetings, he's usually suggesting ways to become more profitable. Some of his ideas are great and embraced by other leaders. Other times, he has ideas about doing layoffs or salary reductions which would damage morale and would barely move the needle on profitability, and he receives a lot of pushback. The company generally does not implement those ideas. It used to bother me when Jed brought up these ideas because I felt empathetic towards the employees who would be negatively impacted. Now I see that the company acts responsibly towards employees and it doesn't bother me when Jed floats these ideas.
At meal times when I make smalltalk with Jed, it often ends up with him getting visibly offended. Once he was talking about being excited to get a new Rolex, and I asked what the biggest differences are between his various Rolexes. He got irritated. Also he mentioned that his children are always curious about his Rolexes, and I said it's cool that he can share this interest with them. He got offended and said he would never want his children to get into the habit of wanting Rolexes at their young ages. Similar things have happened when he mentions aspects of living in New York City. I asked curious questions (which usually leads to genial smalltalk with others) and he got offended.
Another time, he mentioned one of his work projects from many months ago. That project had a big positive impact on the company, but I was only slightly aware of it because I'm in a different department. I asked him about it, and he seemed offended that I knew so little about his project. While I can see his point, he knows even less about the projects I'm responsible for (which directly impact the company's revenue and profitability), and he doesn't seem interested.
I don't like the dynamic where I inadvertently offend Jed most times that we have smalltalk, and he stalks off annoyed. I'm not interested in playing the "signaling status via clothing and vacation spots" game, and I'm able to just be myself and have cheerful smalltalk with everyone except Jed. Conversations with other people sometimes start off stilted because the other person doesn't know what to expect, but it usually leads to satisfying happy conversations. Except with Jed.
When doing smalltalk with Jed, would it work better to always redirect to safe topics like weather / movies / TV shows? What advice do you have for making these conversations with Jed smoother? Thanks!
Best answer: My guess? He doesn't want to engage with you, he wants to perform for you. Don't ask questions, just smile, nod, and say "how interesting." And disengage as soon as you see an opening.
There is a kind of status-conscious conversational style that sees questions as attacks. There are ways to cope with that, but honestly, in this context, I wouldn't bother. You don't need to be friends, you just need to reduce friction. Therefore, minimum engagement with the friendliest tone you can muster.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:45 AM on April 9 [71 favorites]
There is a kind of status-conscious conversational style that sees questions as attacks. There are ways to cope with that, but honestly, in this context, I wouldn't bother. You don't need to be friends, you just need to reduce friction. Therefore, minimum engagement with the friendliest tone you can muster.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:45 AM on April 9 [71 favorites]
Best answer: Don’t ask him questions. Sometimes people perceive curiosity as an attempt to detect their weaknesses in order to attack them later. You can probably talk about yourself a little bit, and also the super safe small talk like weather and popular media, but make an effort to include a third party and speak to both of them so the pressure isn’t directly between the two of you.
When he brags about doing something, say “wow, that must have been expensive/difficult/exciting”. When he talks about NYC, say “you must love living there” or “the city must be so interesting all the time.” If you don’t want to feign being impressed, tell him you’re glad he is doing well and that you need to be elsewhere.
If there is an opening for you to smoothly leave or start talking to another person, take it. If someone is interested in talking to him use that as an excuse to slide away. Don’t conspicuously avoid him but keep it to basic greetings if you are the one approaching him. Let him come to you if he wants to talk. Lower your curiosity around him.
The advice to listen to how others speak with him is very good. If he acts the same level of irritated around everyone as he does with you, it’s solidly his issue and you should only bother changing how you talk with him if it will benefit you or your job or coworkers somehow.
posted by Mizu at 6:59 AM on April 9 [15 favorites]
When he brags about doing something, say “wow, that must have been expensive/difficult/exciting”. When he talks about NYC, say “you must love living there” or “the city must be so interesting all the time.” If you don’t want to feign being impressed, tell him you’re glad he is doing well and that you need to be elsewhere.
If there is an opening for you to smoothly leave or start talking to another person, take it. If someone is interested in talking to him use that as an excuse to slide away. Don’t conspicuously avoid him but keep it to basic greetings if you are the one approaching him. Let him come to you if he wants to talk. Lower your curiosity around him.
The advice to listen to how others speak with him is very good. If he acts the same level of irritated around everyone as he does with you, it’s solidly his issue and you should only bother changing how you talk with him if it will benefit you or your job or coworkers somehow.
posted by Mizu at 6:59 AM on April 9 [15 favorites]
Best answer: There's people who only feel big by making others feel small; also he may see there's an "order" to things and you're not being as amazed or impressed by him as you 'should' be. Negging isn't just a pick-up artist thing, people who do it learn that they attract sycophants when they do it and they like that.
It all comes from insecurity, and your questions may feel to him like you're digging at his insecurities -- asking about his Rolexes when he's just wearing them for performative reasons, and doesn't really know much about Rolexes (i.e. "if you are wearing that band t-shirt, name five of their songs"), may feel like you're attacking whether he should be allowed to wear a Rolex or not, and/or he would feel deflated by having to say "I don't know". He's mad that you don't know about his projects because he thinks you should be more impressed by his work (i.e., he's doing the "band t-shirt gatekeeping" to you, why aren't you more of a fan).
Not that you need to coddle the guy's fragile self image, but he's not having the same conversation that you are.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:09 AM on April 9 [16 favorites]
It all comes from insecurity, and your questions may feel to him like you're digging at his insecurities -- asking about his Rolexes when he's just wearing them for performative reasons, and doesn't really know much about Rolexes (i.e. "if you are wearing that band t-shirt, name five of their songs"), may feel like you're attacking whether he should be allowed to wear a Rolex or not, and/or he would feel deflated by having to say "I don't know". He's mad that you don't know about his projects because he thinks you should be more impressed by his work (i.e., he's doing the "band t-shirt gatekeeping" to you, why aren't you more of a fan).
Not that you need to coddle the guy's fragile self image, but he's not having the same conversation that you are.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:09 AM on April 9 [16 favorites]
Best answer: My guess is the only way you can not offend this person is to stop being a woman of colour who doesn't engage in performative wealth who is considered his equal (by other people, clearly not him).
But since those things aren't really available for changing, I'd go with the what others have suggested -- ask him no question deeper or more detailed than 'how are you?' and respond to his small talk with statements that are vaguely positive or vaguely interested and then try not to sit next to him in the future.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:19 AM on April 9 [38 favorites]
But since those things aren't really available for changing, I'd go with the what others have suggested -- ask him no question deeper or more detailed than 'how are you?' and respond to his small talk with statements that are vaguely positive or vaguely interested and then try not to sit next to him in the future.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:19 AM on April 9 [38 favorites]
He doesn't want a genuine, give-and-take conversation. He wants to tell you all about his life while you remain in awe. Avoid him as best as you can, smile and nod when you do talk to him, and look for an exit.
posted by Meldanthral at 7:22 AM on April 9 [12 favorites]
posted by Meldanthral at 7:22 AM on April 9 [12 favorites]
I think he's probably predisposed to feel threatened by you because he knows that you are not impressed by him, and he thinks that the two of you are having some sort of pissing contest. Being in a one-sided fight is a weird feeling so I'm not surprised that the dynamic isn't doing it for you. You could just stick to validating responses, which he seems to be looking for; you are also fully within your rights to just keep being yourself--I'm going to take a bold stance and say that cheerful small talk in which you demonstrate interest in people and their interests is good, actually--and let him go cry about it. My vote is the latter, but you have better intel re: whether it's personally or professionally worth it to coddle this grown man.
posted by wormtales at 7:24 AM on April 9 [10 favorites]
posted by wormtales at 7:24 AM on April 9 [10 favorites]
What do you mean when you say he "gets offended" or "gets irritated"? Offended how, irritated how?
posted by windbox at 7:25 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
posted by windbox at 7:25 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
nthing the answer that this man does not want to interact and hear about your happy life.
He wants to perform his "awesome" life and have you be impressed/envious.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:27 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
He wants to perform his "awesome" life and have you be impressed/envious.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:27 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
The guy desperately wants you to be impressed by the fact that he has multiple Rolexes. He doesn't actually give a shit about the watches in and of themselves, only about their function as status symbols. So he doesn't actually know what the differences between his Rolexes are because he's never bothered to think about it, and he's embarrassed and resentful when you not only fail to ooh and ahh at him but in fact ignore how high and mighty he is while putting him on the spot for information he doesn't have.
Best advice: keep half an eye on him any time he's in the room, and arrange to be most of a room away from him any time he looks in your direction. Life's too short to waste it trying to get anything resembling a conversation out of that grade of up-himself asshole.
posted by flabdablet at 7:29 AM on April 9 [21 favorites]
Best advice: keep half an eye on him any time he's in the room, and arrange to be most of a room away from him any time he looks in your direction. Life's too short to waste it trying to get anything resembling a conversation out of that grade of up-himself asshole.
posted by flabdablet at 7:29 AM on April 9 [21 favorites]
So, he's most likely some flavor of tiresome person as suggested by other answers, in which case "smile, nod, and run for the exit as soon as you can" is the best approach. But could it also be possible that some whiff of your "everyone here but me is 'performative'" attitude is somehow getting through? I have no doubt that something like that is true for some of them but as a judgment of a reasonably-sized group of people it's rather sweeping. It sounds like you are largely able to disguise this attitude successfully/professionally, but maybe he happens to be the one who picks up on it a little, even unconsciously.
posted by praemunire at 7:31 AM on April 9 [7 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 7:31 AM on April 9 [7 favorites]
Best answer: A long time ago, in a thread far, far away, I made a comment in an AskMe about travel that I think will be helpful.
In my experience, there's a large Venn Diagram overlap between this kind of person and people who are very into efficient travel packing, expensive luggage brands, etc. But bear with me...
I think this is a way forward with your colleague. You can ask him "Hey, I'm working on setting up some travel for later this year, and I couldn't wait to talk with you because I bet you've got some good one-bag strategies."
Essentially, you're paying him an implied compliment by acknowledging him as the sort of person who might have this expertise (no matter that you're doing it for a cynical reason), and you're asking him to hold forth on a topic that he might very well have many strong opinions about. Play it right, and this is the new core topic for your entire relationship, and it's neutral enough to shift your dynamic.
If not packing, then substitute some other status-adjacent thing: wine, for example.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:35 AM on April 9 [7 favorites]
In my experience, there's a large Venn Diagram overlap between this kind of person and people who are very into efficient travel packing, expensive luggage brands, etc. But bear with me...
I think this is a way forward with your colleague. You can ask him "Hey, I'm working on setting up some travel for later this year, and I couldn't wait to talk with you because I bet you've got some good one-bag strategies."
Essentially, you're paying him an implied compliment by acknowledging him as the sort of person who might have this expertise (no matter that you're doing it for a cynical reason), and you're asking him to hold forth on a topic that he might very well have many strong opinions about. Play it right, and this is the new core topic for your entire relationship, and it's neutral enough to shift your dynamic.
If not packing, then substitute some other status-adjacent thing: wine, for example.
posted by yellowcandy at 7:35 AM on April 9 [7 favorites]
I'm not interested in playing the "signaling status via clothing and vacation spots" game, and I'm able to just be myself and have cheerful smalltalk with everyone except Jed.
Jed isn't the slightest bit interested in playing anything but the status signalling game, which is why he cracks the sads when confronted with somebody who won't join in and worship him as required. From his point of view, egalitarianism is threatening to the point of being offensive.
I've met guys like Jed. They are a complete fucking waste of oxygen without exception. Avoid.
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on April 9 [18 favorites]
Jed isn't the slightest bit interested in playing anything but the status signalling game, which is why he cracks the sads when confronted with somebody who won't join in and worship him as required. From his point of view, egalitarianism is threatening to the point of being offensive.
I've met guys like Jed. They are a complete fucking waste of oxygen without exception. Avoid.
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on April 9 [18 favorites]
Jed doesn't need small talk. He needs a "fluffer" (to stroke his ego).
posted by kschang at 7:36 AM on April 9 [2 favorites]
posted by kschang at 7:36 AM on April 9 [2 favorites]
Yeah, Jed is just an asshole who only likes things because they impress others. What he likes about the new Rolex is that it's "one more Rolex" and what he likes about living in NYC is "mentioning to other people that he lives in NYC". When you ask him questions that would be polite to any other conversation partner, he gets mad because he's just self-aware to know that his actual true answer is gauche.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:40 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 7:40 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
Jed may or may not dislike you as a person, but he is a racist and probably a sexist as well, and doesn’t like your presence at this elite level in the company at the very least.
But he certainly cannot admit that, perhaps not even to himself.
So in order to justify his feelings — and behavior he cannot seem to control — he must find other reasons for them.
Which means he will always find some way to be offended by you no matter what you do.
A meaner person than you seem to be might enjoy making him look foolish by getting him to act offended over ever more innocuous behavior, but it’s probably wiser just to let him do his thing and retreat from the conversation.
posted by jamjam at 8:05 AM on April 9 [12 favorites]
But he certainly cannot admit that, perhaps not even to himself.
So in order to justify his feelings — and behavior he cannot seem to control — he must find other reasons for them.
Which means he will always find some way to be offended by you no matter what you do.
A meaner person than you seem to be might enjoy making him look foolish by getting him to act offended over ever more innocuous behavior, but it’s probably wiser just to let him do his thing and retreat from the conversation.
posted by jamjam at 8:05 AM on April 9 [12 favorites]
Status displays are part of dominance and hierarchy battles. Are you Black? Jed's inner racist, which is present even if Jed doesn't recognize or choose it, is especially offended by your presence and is reacting. Are you choosing avoidance of conflict? Some people perceive that as weakness. I think Jed's responses are probably as exasperating to Jed as they are to you, and there's a significant element of alpha competition and aggression in his responses.
In this setting, doing an end run around the game to be neutral isn't always possible. I'd think about teasing. Find something gentle and non-discriminatory to tease Jed. Maybe Jed wears floral ties or whatever. Hey Jed, this is a particularly lovely entry into your floral tie selection; where do you get them? I always admire them. The pink notes are a bit brave in this setting, eh? Maybe Jed loves Taylor Swift or is passionate about a losing baseball team. Find that conversational hook, use it for the obligatory 3 minutes, and escape.
Since you need conversational gambits, embrace a quirk others can use as their conversational gambit with you. Maybe you love Annie Lennox, or are wild about PBS' Mystery. Perhaps you collect those flattened pennies from tourist spots because your kids just love them. Provide the same conversational lubricant to others that you seek to use. If and when you can, inject some realness. Reveal your love for aspects of your non-white culture, or your joy in hiking with your mutt, or whatever. Inside many cliched wealthy folk is a grain or more of real, and recognizing it is a powerful connection.
Personally, I'd run out of interest in wealth culture promptly and hide in my wine glass; your ability to manage this is impressive.
posted by theora55 at 8:07 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
In this setting, doing an end run around the game to be neutral isn't always possible. I'd think about teasing. Find something gentle and non-discriminatory to tease Jed. Maybe Jed wears floral ties or whatever. Hey Jed, this is a particularly lovely entry into your floral tie selection; where do you get them? I always admire them. The pink notes are a bit brave in this setting, eh? Maybe Jed loves Taylor Swift or is passionate about a losing baseball team. Find that conversational hook, use it for the obligatory 3 minutes, and escape.
Since you need conversational gambits, embrace a quirk others can use as their conversational gambit with you. Maybe you love Annie Lennox, or are wild about PBS' Mystery. Perhaps you collect those flattened pennies from tourist spots because your kids just love them. Provide the same conversational lubricant to others that you seek to use. If and when you can, inject some realness. Reveal your love for aspects of your non-white culture, or your joy in hiking with your mutt, or whatever. Inside many cliched wealthy folk is a grain or more of real, and recognizing it is a powerful connection.
Personally, I'd run out of interest in wealth culture promptly and hide in my wine glass; your ability to manage this is impressive.
posted by theora55 at 8:07 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
"Jed, I've known you for two years now, and I have to tell you this: I admire how you take the time to talk with me, and other people, even though you are a very busy guy. It shows that you care about making sure others are comfortable and at ease, which makes the whole company function better, but also makes us as humans feel more connected to each other - it really makes our whole community feel good, and really, why else are we all alive? What better ultimate purpose is there?
"Everybody here is so fortunate, and a very few of us, like you, even own multiple Rolexes. But we all have that drive to know why we do what we do, why we even care about our own success, and that reason is, ultimately, to make things better. To feel like we have a deeper purpose.
"And we all support that in small ways, because who really has time? But you, Jed, you make time to make sure I feel included and supported by talking with me as a friend, just like you talk with [president of the company] as a friend, which lets us all relax and get on with the hard work of making the world a better place.
"I don't want to take a lot of your time, but I did just want to say a sincere 'Thank you'. I see you and I see your skill in making people feel valuable and heard. Thank you so much, Jed.
"OK, I'm going to go get a drink now. It was lovely seeing you, as always!"
posted by amtho at 8:19 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
"Everybody here is so fortunate, and a very few of us, like you, even own multiple Rolexes. But we all have that drive to know why we do what we do, why we even care about our own success, and that reason is, ultimately, to make things better. To feel like we have a deeper purpose.
"And we all support that in small ways, because who really has time? But you, Jed, you make time to make sure I feel included and supported by talking with me as a friend, just like you talk with [president of the company] as a friend, which lets us all relax and get on with the hard work of making the world a better place.
"I don't want to take a lot of your time, but I did just want to say a sincere 'Thank you'. I see you and I see your skill in making people feel valuable and heard. Thank you so much, Jed.
"OK, I'm going to go get a drink now. It was lovely seeing you, as always!"
posted by amtho at 8:19 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
"Everybody here is so fortunate, and a very few of us, like you, even own multiple Rolexes. But we all have that drive to know why we do what we do, why we even care about our own success, and that reason is, ultimately, to make things better. To feel like we have a deeper purpose."
Ok so no one talks this way. I don't really know how to best deal with this Jed fellow if he gets so offended or irritated - I think my kneejerk response to whatever offense you are causing would be to shrug, laugh uncomfortably, and be like "ha ha I don't know man, you're the one who brought it up sorry I was just curious" - but my general advice would be to not do the above, people do not talk like this in real life and especially in business settings.
posted by windbox at 8:26 AM on April 9 [35 favorites]
Ok so no one talks this way. I don't really know how to best deal with this Jed fellow if he gets so offended or irritated - I think my kneejerk response to whatever offense you are causing would be to shrug, laugh uncomfortably, and be like "ha ha I don't know man, you're the one who brought it up sorry I was just curious" - but my general advice would be to not do the above, people do not talk like this in real life and especially in business settings.
posted by windbox at 8:26 AM on April 9 [35 favorites]
I say this as a white woman who grew up in the suburbs - Jed only wants to talk about Jed and how impressive Jed is. What a boring and small person.
yellowcandy has an interesting idea because it allows Jed to Be The Expert and Be a Smart Man and those things matter a lot to Jed. If that strategy doesn't work, I'd do the following attempts:
1. What is on your travel bucket list? I have a coworker who always uses this as an icebreaker and it's fun.
2. Ask what he did for a recent big event - did he have a bracket for the basketball tournament? Where did he watch the eclipse?
Honestly, I probably would avoid small talk at all with him - "Jed, it's so nice to see you! I need to go refill my coffee/make a quick call back to the office/respond to an email/catch up with Susan on the TPS reports! Let's catch up later." Later is never.
posted by notjustthefish at 9:18 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
yellowcandy has an interesting idea because it allows Jed to Be The Expert and Be a Smart Man and those things matter a lot to Jed. If that strategy doesn't work, I'd do the following attempts:
1. What is on your travel bucket list? I have a coworker who always uses this as an icebreaker and it's fun.
2. Ask what he did for a recent big event - did he have a bracket for the basketball tournament? Where did he watch the eclipse?
Honestly, I probably would avoid small talk at all with him - "Jed, it's so nice to see you! I need to go refill my coffee/make a quick call back to the office/respond to an email/catch up with Susan on the TPS reports! Let's catch up later." Later is never.
posted by notjustthefish at 9:18 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Haha, you're treating his status hobbies as equal and equally interesting to your own hobbies and he just can't with that. You react exactly the same if someone says their hobby is trainspotting or any inexpensive hobby of if Jeff tries to wow you with his rolexes. You're a hobby egalitarian!
What's more, as implied, you yourself are equal to him in respect and status, despite your non-whiteness and I bet this reminds him of that and I wouldn't be surprised if it bothered him in an unaknowledged way.
I'm so here for you irritating the crap out of that git, but it's no fun to be in that situation. I agree that the conflict freest course is to say as little as possible, smile and nope out of the conversation.
posted by Omnomnom at 9:22 AM on April 9 [16 favorites]
What's more, as implied, you yourself are equal to him in respect and status, despite your non-whiteness and I bet this reminds him of that and I wouldn't be surprised if it bothered him in an unaknowledged way.
I'm so here for you irritating the crap out of that git, but it's no fun to be in that situation. I agree that the conflict freest course is to say as little as possible, smile and nope out of the conversation.
posted by Omnomnom at 9:22 AM on April 9 [16 favorites]
Best answer: Also he mentioned that his children are always curious about his Rolexes.
Okay so obviously I don't know the context beyond what you've shared here but I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be a put-down about how you're being childish, with his own kids as collateral damage. If so I truly think it was lovely of you to take it at face value and continue trying to engage, but it also explains why he got all aggro and kind of incoherent when you tried again for a personal angle, because he had wanted to "put you in your place" and you just awesomely persisted in your good cheer. It really doesn't sound like you can win with him and in my opinion you've already devoted massively more effort to it than he deserves.
posted by teremala at 9:32 AM on April 9 [25 favorites]
Okay so obviously I don't know the context beyond what you've shared here but I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be a put-down about how you're being childish, with his own kids as collateral damage. If so I truly think it was lovely of you to take it at face value and continue trying to engage, but it also explains why he got all aggro and kind of incoherent when you tried again for a personal angle, because he had wanted to "put you in your place" and you just awesomely persisted in your good cheer. It really doesn't sound like you can win with him and in my opinion you've already devoted massively more effort to it than he deserves.
posted by teremala at 9:32 AM on April 9 [25 favorites]
Response by poster: These answers are super helpful!
I'm going to stop asking Jed questions and instead make vaguely positive replies such as "That sounds like quite an experience" or "Interesting, I'd like to hear more". If that works and he stops getting offended, that'd be great. If it doesn't work and the only way to stop offending him is to pretend that I'm impressed or envious, I'm not willing to do that, and in that case, I accept that he'll get offended and we'll have friction sometimes.
"Jed's responses are probably as exasperating to Jed as they are to you" -- This was a fascinating insight. It hadn't occurred to me before, but it makes sense that Jed would feel frustrated to keep having these negative emotional reactions in a professional harmonious setting. It might make him feel slightly out of control.
It also makes sense that Jed doesn't actually know the answers to my questions. I think back to a conversation I had with a different watch collector, and the difference in reaction was night and day. I asked similar questions to that watch enthusiast, and he happily explained at length about accuracy, mechanical vs quartz, and maintaining the watches. He was delighted with my questions.
'What do you mean when you say he "gets offended" or "gets irritated"?' -- Jed adopts a sharp tone of voice and a knitted brow. He speaks faster and makes an exclamation like, "It's good to have many Rolexes so I can choose one based on my mood!" or "The [codename] project is the one that saved the company 3% last year!" His tone of voice is as though the answer is obvious and the question was stupid.
I will try asking Jed about packing efficiently and travel bucket lists. Those are topics I'm genuinely very interested in. Hopefully it doesn't result in him segueing the conversation into business/first class and 5-star resorts.
posted by cheesecake at 10:19 AM on April 9 [8 favorites]
I'm going to stop asking Jed questions and instead make vaguely positive replies such as "That sounds like quite an experience" or "Interesting, I'd like to hear more". If that works and he stops getting offended, that'd be great. If it doesn't work and the only way to stop offending him is to pretend that I'm impressed or envious, I'm not willing to do that, and in that case, I accept that he'll get offended and we'll have friction sometimes.
"Jed's responses are probably as exasperating to Jed as they are to you" -- This was a fascinating insight. It hadn't occurred to me before, but it makes sense that Jed would feel frustrated to keep having these negative emotional reactions in a professional harmonious setting. It might make him feel slightly out of control.
It also makes sense that Jed doesn't actually know the answers to my questions. I think back to a conversation I had with a different watch collector, and the difference in reaction was night and day. I asked similar questions to that watch enthusiast, and he happily explained at length about accuracy, mechanical vs quartz, and maintaining the watches. He was delighted with my questions.
'What do you mean when you say he "gets offended" or "gets irritated"?' -- Jed adopts a sharp tone of voice and a knitted brow. He speaks faster and makes an exclamation like, "It's good to have many Rolexes so I can choose one based on my mood!" or "The [codename] project is the one that saved the company 3% last year!" His tone of voice is as though the answer is obvious and the question was stupid.
I will try asking Jed about packing efficiently and travel bucket lists. Those are topics I'm genuinely very interested in. Hopefully it doesn't result in him segueing the conversation into business/first class and 5-star resorts.
posted by cheesecake at 10:19 AM on April 9 [8 favorites]
He sounds like a deeply insecure person and has sensed that you are not impressed by him--I've been around a lot of extremely status-conscious people (and at certain points in my life, am pretty sure I've been one) and people like this really, really want others to be impressed by them and are both confused and offended when they are not. Like, how do you not see my obvious superiority to you? How could you possibly act like we're equals?
I would just continue saying completely neutral pleasantries ("that's nice," "oh, that's cool") and not dig any deeper because I don't feel like this is ever going to turn into a very rewarding friendship or acquaintanceship and any attempts at digging deeper will just bring out his latent insecurity and need to perform dominance over you. On some buried level, I think he just wants you to be awed by him--and since you're clearly not, he's not going to be satisfied by any of your interactions.
posted by lizard2590 at 11:03 AM on April 9 [11 favorites]
I would just continue saying completely neutral pleasantries ("that's nice," "oh, that's cool") and not dig any deeper because I don't feel like this is ever going to turn into a very rewarding friendship or acquaintanceship and any attempts at digging deeper will just bring out his latent insecurity and need to perform dominance over you. On some buried level, I think he just wants you to be awed by him--and since you're clearly not, he's not going to be satisfied by any of your interactions.
posted by lizard2590 at 11:03 AM on April 9 [11 favorites]
Jed sounds like someone I know, who is a blowhard who doesn't know much about the stuff he talks about. This person was going to a conference. Genuinely interested, I asked how he heard about it and what he was hoping to learn and he was taken aback. He didn't know. My question had inadvertently highlighted that he didn't know. It made him sputter and stop enjoying the thing he was trying to get me to be impressed by.
So now I just say neutral stuff back or ask about his grandkids (a safe topic with him). He doesn't want to hear about the conferences I'm speaking at on the same topic or requests for more information about the thing he's talking about even. "Oh, that's nice." I don't talk this way with anyone else, seriously.
He's insecure and a little weird with people so I just let him be and am unremarkably pleasant to him and have brief interactions only. There's no real winning with these people, alas. (And I'm not even accounting for the likely race issue.) Tiresome!
posted by *s at 11:30 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
So now I just say neutral stuff back or ask about his grandkids (a safe topic with him). He doesn't want to hear about the conferences I'm speaking at on the same topic or requests for more information about the thing he's talking about even. "Oh, that's nice." I don't talk this way with anyone else, seriously.
He's insecure and a little weird with people so I just let him be and am unremarkably pleasant to him and have brief interactions only. There's no real winning with these people, alas. (And I'm not even accounting for the likely race issue.) Tiresome!
posted by *s at 11:30 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
My experience has been that about 98% of the time, people seem to respond well to questions that are related to something that they just told me. People generally love talking about themselves! But the other 2% of people are outliers who seem prone to putting the worst possible interpretation on anything you ask them. Or they otherwise just respond in a weird way. Case in point: I recently met someone who told me that he retired from [Big Fortune 500 Company] and was now turning his attention to doing volunteer work. I asked what kind of work he had been doing before he retired. He seemed taken aback and became evasive and visibly uncomfortable. I still don't know what exactly happened there, but I made a point of avoiding him in the future.
All of which is to say... it's not you, it's Jed.
posted by alex1965 at 11:41 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
All of which is to say... it's not you, it's Jed.
posted by alex1965 at 11:41 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
Use the Benjamin Frankliin effect. Ask him for some small favor it would be difficult to refuse. Borrow something or ask for something When they accept and do the thing, that favorably influences their perception of you and you may find it easier to get along with them after that.
posted by diode at 11:43 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
posted by diode at 11:43 AM on April 9 [4 favorites]
Not everyone likes being asked questions as part of smalltalk. He might be expecting you to swap an anecdote of your own for his anecdotes, and I can't tell if you've done that and it hasn't worked or you haven't done that yet? While generally asking questions is a good conversational skill, not everyone likes that with people they don't know well.
Also, wow, the read here on this guy so so negative, if you go into any interaction with him with the judgmental assumptions of metafilter you're for sure doomed. Maybe he really is a jerk who only cares about status signaling and hates non-white men. Or maybe he's just a little bit awkward or stressed out around unfamiliar people or jetlagged or whatever. It doesn't sound like he's actually harassing you or otherwise trying to cause you harm, so maybe give him the benefit of the doubt that it might not have anything to do with you personally. Avoid him if you want, but he's almost certainly not a paper cutout jerk who only cares about rolexes.
posted by ch1x0r at 1:03 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]
Also, wow, the read here on this guy so so negative, if you go into any interaction with him with the judgmental assumptions of metafilter you're for sure doomed. Maybe he really is a jerk who only cares about status signaling and hates non-white men. Or maybe he's just a little bit awkward or stressed out around unfamiliar people or jetlagged or whatever. It doesn't sound like he's actually harassing you or otherwise trying to cause you harm, so maybe give him the benefit of the doubt that it might not have anything to do with you personally. Avoid him if you want, but he's almost certainly not a paper cutout jerk who only cares about rolexes.
posted by ch1x0r at 1:03 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]
My vibe: He absolutely doesn't know the answers and doesn't like realizing that he doesn't know the answers. He does not have an integrated and happy sense of self that these hobbies integrate into. He buys rolexes because it feels good to him, being able to buy rolexes; maybe the guy at the store told him a neat story about the new one that made him feel special.
You might do ok with "how did you pick this one?", it lets him direct the conversation... but anything more detailed, where you're asking him to be an expert or to engage as a knowledge haver, does open up the potential that he could be judged on his answer, or that he could be wrong (facts! bah!). He just wants to be right. He just wants to be part of the crowd and have people like him.
posted by Lady Li at 1:19 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]
You might do ok with "how did you pick this one?", it lets him direct the conversation... but anything more detailed, where you're asking him to be an expert or to engage as a knowledge haver, does open up the potential that he could be judged on his answer, or that he could be wrong (facts! bah!). He just wants to be right. He just wants to be part of the crowd and have people like him.
posted by Lady Li at 1:19 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]
Upfront massive disclaimer that you sound like you have the patience of a saint; I would be unable to last 15 minutes in this sort of context without the imp of the sarcastic yanking my tongue around, so this may well just be a self-lensing reading (and if so, I apologise)... but...
The way you've phrased your questions back to him (as written here) could be read in a snide / snipey way; to me something like "what are the biggest differences between your various Rolexes?" sounds like a splendid way to convey disdain for the whole performance.
Likewise about the children... "oh, cool that you can share this interest with them" re. acquiring Rolexes might put a somewhat unsettling light on family dynamics, particularly if there's been little or no other idle chat related to his interactions with his kids.
Of course everything utterly depends on tone and the emphasis on precise words in a given moment, but maybe you do just dislike Jed more than anyone else at these events, you get tired of putting on a face for everyone else and there's a bit of that subconscious imp opening a valve when you talk to him.
If that rings at all true, just staying aware of the possibility of it might make it easier for you to shift the dynamic in the future. Deliberately reflecting an extra second and a half before responding to him, and trying as much as possible to stay in multi-person rather than one on one conversations might help on a practical level.
posted by protorp at 2:07 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]
The way you've phrased your questions back to him (as written here) could be read in a snide / snipey way; to me something like "what are the biggest differences between your various Rolexes?" sounds like a splendid way to convey disdain for the whole performance.
Likewise about the children... "oh, cool that you can share this interest with them" re. acquiring Rolexes might put a somewhat unsettling light on family dynamics, particularly if there's been little or no other idle chat related to his interactions with his kids.
Of course everything utterly depends on tone and the emphasis on precise words in a given moment, but maybe you do just dislike Jed more than anyone else at these events, you get tired of putting on a face for everyone else and there's a bit of that subconscious imp opening a valve when you talk to him.
If that rings at all true, just staying aware of the possibility of it might make it easier for you to shift the dynamic in the future. Deliberately reflecting an extra second and a half before responding to him, and trying as much as possible to stay in multi-person rather than one on one conversations might help on a practical level.
posted by protorp at 2:07 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]
Boy, everyone in the thread is a much better person than me. All I could think of was ways to wind him up. The best one I came up with was “I heard that the majority of Rolexes are counterfeits—how do you protect yourself against getting one of those?”
I think your decision to mouth meaningless politenesses while disengaging is the right one. He is a man with a small soul that has withered even smaller. Not worth the time even to antagonize. Also, I admire your sincerity dealing with him to date.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 3:55 PM on April 9 [10 favorites]
I think your decision to mouth meaningless politenesses while disengaging is the right one. He is a man with a small soul that has withered even smaller. Not worth the time even to antagonize. Also, I admire your sincerity dealing with him to date.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 3:55 PM on April 9 [10 favorites]
Boy, everyone in the thread is a much better person than me. All I could think of was ways to wind him up.
I came to say this. Intentionally or not, you've come across the perfect and polite way to show this guy that you are not the least bit intimidated or impressed by him. Your conversational style will be welcomed by people who are not worried about their ability to dominate others they meet in social situations, which explains why it works with the majority of your co-workers, even if they are "performing status."
Unfortunately you've run across one fellow who is either extremely touchy, can't handle the idea that you are speaking to him as an equal, or both. Since you seem to be sincere in your desire to have as pleasant a relationship with him as possible, being vaguely cheerful and keeping conversation to a minimum is the way to go.
posted by rpfields at 6:31 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]
I came to say this. Intentionally or not, you've come across the perfect and polite way to show this guy that you are not the least bit intimidated or impressed by him. Your conversational style will be welcomed by people who are not worried about their ability to dominate others they meet in social situations, which explains why it works with the majority of your co-workers, even if they are "performing status."
Unfortunately you've run across one fellow who is either extremely touchy, can't handle the idea that you are speaking to him as an equal, or both. Since you seem to be sincere in your desire to have as pleasant a relationship with him as possible, being vaguely cheerful and keeping conversation to a minimum is the way to go.
posted by rpfields at 6:31 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]
But the other 2% of people are outliers who seem prone to putting the worst possible interpretation on anything you ask them.
One thing I've learned about people whose concerns revolve around status is that they see information as currency. Asking one of these assholes a question is equivalent, in their view, to asking them for money so they experience it as presumptuous and rude.
posted by flabdablet at 6:45 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]
One thing I've learned about people whose concerns revolve around status is that they see information as currency. Asking one of these assholes a question is equivalent, in their view, to asking them for money so they experience it as presumptuous and rude.
posted by flabdablet at 6:45 PM on April 9 [3 favorites]
Huh, everybody in this thread willing to spend time with this person is a better person than I. Life is too short. There are lots of other people who are enjoyable to be around. I'd do due diligence by greeting him and letting him bloviate for a bit while I nod, smile, and be polite... then quickly walk away to find someone I'd want to talk to.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:03 PM on April 9 [5 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 7:03 PM on April 9 [5 favorites]
This is such a fascinating question! I have a slightly more charitable take than other commenters.
The social situation you describe sounds absolutely insufferable to me. I would be very stressed out being locked in a room with people like this for an extended time.
Some people respond to stress more poorly than others. It appears that you bring a lot of grace and positivity to this situation, despite not liking the flashing of wealth and dominance, but not everyone can do this. Since you say the company "generally does not implement [Jed's] ideas" it's obvious that he is not too high on the ladder and is possibly insecure. So my hypothesis would be that he is not doing well in this stressful social situation, is feeling uncomfortable and irritated, and is desperately trying to compete in this conspicuous-consumption social dynamic that has been set up by the folks at the top.
This is not your problem to fix. If there are more pleasant people to hang out with, do that instead. As for Jed - a smile and nod and "mmm-hmm" totally counts as making small talk, you don't have to do more.
I personally think that bringing up other topics like efficient packing will only backfire because it doesn't address the root issue which is that Jed is (probably) not doing well.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:44 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]
The social situation you describe sounds absolutely insufferable to me. I would be very stressed out being locked in a room with people like this for an extended time.
Some people respond to stress more poorly than others. It appears that you bring a lot of grace and positivity to this situation, despite not liking the flashing of wealth and dominance, but not everyone can do this. Since you say the company "generally does not implement [Jed's] ideas" it's obvious that he is not too high on the ladder and is possibly insecure. So my hypothesis would be that he is not doing well in this stressful social situation, is feeling uncomfortable and irritated, and is desperately trying to compete in this conspicuous-consumption social dynamic that has been set up by the folks at the top.
This is not your problem to fix. If there are more pleasant people to hang out with, do that instead. As for Jed - a smile and nod and "mmm-hmm" totally counts as making small talk, you don't have to do more.
I personally think that bringing up other topics like efficient packing will only backfire because it doesn't address the root issue which is that Jed is (probably) not doing well.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:44 PM on April 9 [6 favorites]
Jed is mad because your obvious distain for him is seeping through everything you say to him. You could engage in a campaign of lovingkindness meditation to stop hating Jed, but a better use of your time would probably be to keep your interactions to "Nice! Well, I'm off to the kitchen to freshen my Kind Bar, see ya at the Q2 planning meeting". The amount of effort it would take you to be able to engage with him sincerely would not be worth the payoff. Brisk, bright, brief.
posted by umwelt at 3:49 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
posted by umwelt at 3:49 PM on April 10 [2 favorites]
If Jed showed me his Rolex it would be all I could do not to say, “Oh, isn’t it fake, I just assume every Rolex is.” (I actually do assume that, along with LV bags). So good for you for accepting who he is and his pretentiousness.
But yeah, I would stop engaging with this guy. He doesn’t like it, you don’t like it and you’re not playing the ‘wow, how impressive are you’, game well enough so you have no value to Jed. Find someone to talk to who is actually genuine.
posted by Jubey at 8:47 PM on April 10 [5 favorites]
But yeah, I would stop engaging with this guy. He doesn’t like it, you don’t like it and you’re not playing the ‘wow, how impressive are you’, game well enough so you have no value to Jed. Find someone to talk to who is actually genuine.
posted by Jubey at 8:47 PM on April 10 [5 favorites]
Don't ask him how to pack efficiently, he's gonna look at you like you have two heads. He probably isn't even packing his own bags, he has a giant baggage allowance from his air miles and he's not holidaying anywhere that he had to carry a bag.
Either ignore and stay away from him or just be like, wow, wow, that's so cool, oh yeah? Your questions are interrupting his flow. Wow, so cool, ok great talking to you Jed, have to go catch Jen before she goes".
posted by Iteki at 9:17 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
Either ignore and stay away from him or just be like, wow, wow, that's so cool, oh yeah? Your questions are interrupting his flow. Wow, so cool, ok great talking to you Jed, have to go catch Jen before she goes".
posted by Iteki at 9:17 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
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But I think it would be valuable as research. It’s possible that Jed feels put on the spot when asked questions. It’s possible that they are a very private person and resent being asked questions at all. It’s possible that they view your questions as being insincere as they are part of a social ritual instead of a real interaction.
In any case, I would look for people who are successfully chatting with him and mimic that.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:45 AM on April 9 [18 favorites]