Tips for handling a difficult conversation
December 20, 2023 3:25 PM Subscribe
Tomorrow I have to have a meeting at my father's sheltered accommodation with the house manager and another resident, B. This is because B has been harassing my father and we want to tell her to stop. I'm fairly doubtful that this will be successful, and wondered if any of you have suggestions to make success more likely.
My father has dementia and is vulnerable to manipulation. B is another recent-ish resident of his older people's sheltered accommodation, and for about two months has been asking him intrusive questions about his love life, and suggesting that the two of them should get together. He does not want this, either the questions or the relationship. I have met her briefly and seen that her conversation would be difficult to curtail, and that she does not manage her emotions well. About three weeks ago, the house manager got in touch to say how distressing my father was obviously finding B's behaviour. She talked to B and wrote her a formal letter telling her to back off. She also arranged for the staff to keep an eye out and pull him out of conversations with B if he seemed trapped in them.
This worked for a couple of weeks, but B's behaviour has escalated in the last week and my father is finding it very difficult to deal with. Today she caught him in the corridor and talked to him fast, loudly and at length about how he needs to cut off a woman friend of his. Late this evening she came to his room and went on in the same vein. He told her repeatedly that he doesn't want to talk about his relationships, and doesn't want any more than a friendly acquaintanceship with her. He was very shaken by this and also worried about her state of mind and the possibility that she might harm herself.
I talked to the house manager who talked to her manager. They are a bit out of ideas, but suggested that I meet B, with the house manager, and tell her that we (me and the rest of the family) do not want her asking my father questions, and that he does not want a close relationship with her. Although the house manager told her this, apparently B says she does not believe it, and has put in a complaint about the house manager.
I think B is not in a rational place. I am not especially good at confrontation. Is there anything I can say or do to make this meeting more likely to get B to back off my father? I'm aware of active listening techniques and that sort of thing, but think that using them could end up sounding softer than I want. I'm not confident that the house manager will have a strategy for the meeting, so it may all be on me. I've thought about the Ask A Manager tactic of "This is what we need. Can you do that?", but that leaves me a bit stuck if she says no.
In case it comes up: I realise the fact that my father has dementia may sound like he's not a reliable narrator. In some ways (length of time encounters have lasted, for instance) he isn't, but his accounts of B's behaviour have been consistent and are backed up by staff. The house manager says B is a "difficult" person and I think from what B said when I met her that she has had serious mental health problems. I should also add that the accommodation providers may well be looking at moving B, but wouldn't tell me if so - they are very hot on confidentiality. Also, we have talked to my father about techniques he can use, such as refusing to engage with B. This question is specifically about managing tomorrow's conversation. (I am really, really, the wrong person to have to have it, but I am the person there is.)
My father has dementia and is vulnerable to manipulation. B is another recent-ish resident of his older people's sheltered accommodation, and for about two months has been asking him intrusive questions about his love life, and suggesting that the two of them should get together. He does not want this, either the questions or the relationship. I have met her briefly and seen that her conversation would be difficult to curtail, and that she does not manage her emotions well. About three weeks ago, the house manager got in touch to say how distressing my father was obviously finding B's behaviour. She talked to B and wrote her a formal letter telling her to back off. She also arranged for the staff to keep an eye out and pull him out of conversations with B if he seemed trapped in them.
This worked for a couple of weeks, but B's behaviour has escalated in the last week and my father is finding it very difficult to deal with. Today she caught him in the corridor and talked to him fast, loudly and at length about how he needs to cut off a woman friend of his. Late this evening she came to his room and went on in the same vein. He told her repeatedly that he doesn't want to talk about his relationships, and doesn't want any more than a friendly acquaintanceship with her. He was very shaken by this and also worried about her state of mind and the possibility that she might harm herself.
I talked to the house manager who talked to her manager. They are a bit out of ideas, but suggested that I meet B, with the house manager, and tell her that we (me and the rest of the family) do not want her asking my father questions, and that he does not want a close relationship with her. Although the house manager told her this, apparently B says she does not believe it, and has put in a complaint about the house manager.
I think B is not in a rational place. I am not especially good at confrontation. Is there anything I can say or do to make this meeting more likely to get B to back off my father? I'm aware of active listening techniques and that sort of thing, but think that using them could end up sounding softer than I want. I'm not confident that the house manager will have a strategy for the meeting, so it may all be on me. I've thought about the Ask A Manager tactic of "This is what we need. Can you do that?", but that leaves me a bit stuck if she says no.
In case it comes up: I realise the fact that my father has dementia may sound like he's not a reliable narrator. In some ways (length of time encounters have lasted, for instance) he isn't, but his accounts of B's behaviour have been consistent and are backed up by staff. The house manager says B is a "difficult" person and I think from what B said when I met her that she has had serious mental health problems. I should also add that the accommodation providers may well be looking at moving B, but wouldn't tell me if so - they are very hot on confidentiality. Also, we have talked to my father about techniques he can use, such as refusing to engage with B. This question is specifically about managing tomorrow's conversation. (I am really, really, the wrong person to have to have it, but I am the person there is.)
Response by poster: Not going to threadsit, but just to clarify that I'm after strategies for this conversation, not advice not to do it. I agree it's not a great idea, but think we have to do it as the providers have requested it, in order to move on to other options if this doesn't work (making a complaint to the organisation ourselves; thinking about a safeguarding referral, though I don't think it will meet the threshold at this stage). We have had a tricky relationship with the providers ourselves in the past, so for this reason need to accept their suggestions if we can. Fairly sure B has no family with whom she is in contact.
posted by paduasoy at 3:44 PM on December 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by paduasoy at 3:44 PM on December 20, 2023 [5 favorites]
They should be handling this with B's family.
It does seem to me that the facility is going at this from the wrong end. Your father is an incidental character in this story, which is really about B's behaviour problems. They should be addressing that broader issue at the source.
In your shoes, since it sounds like not having the meeting might cause extra stress, I would focus on making sure any discussion focuses on B and her behaviour. Your father has the right to live safely and peacefully, and if someone is impeding that, it's on the service providers to take care of him. They should be the ones coming up with options to ensure his well-being.
posted by rpfields at 3:53 PM on December 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
It does seem to me that the facility is going at this from the wrong end. Your father is an incidental character in this story, which is really about B's behaviour problems. They should be addressing that broader issue at the source.
In your shoes, since it sounds like not having the meeting might cause extra stress, I would focus on making sure any discussion focuses on B and her behaviour. Your father has the right to live safely and peacefully, and if someone is impeding that, it's on the service providers to take care of him. They should be the ones coming up with options to ensure his well-being.
posted by rpfields at 3:53 PM on December 20, 2023 [9 favorites]
Since it is not likely to be effective, you don't actually have to overthink this.
State the situation clearly. "My father is very unhappy that you keep saying inappropriate things to him and he doesn't want you to talk to him this way ever again. He's not interested in you and the more you talk about these things the more you disgust him."
Threat: Management was kind enough to ask us to talk to you before escalating this. If you don't stop doing it they will have to take steps. I don't know what those are, but they will mean you have no contact with my father at all, and it won't mean that HE gets moved or doesn't get to use the common areas."
End on positive note: "I am sure you don't want to disgust and annoy my father, and you understand now that your questions are harassment. I am sure you don't want to upset him and have everyone think badly of you. You can stop talking to my father this way and make everything okay by never doing it anymore."
posted by Jane the Brown at 3:59 PM on December 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
State the situation clearly. "My father is very unhappy that you keep saying inappropriate things to him and he doesn't want you to talk to him this way ever again. He's not interested in you and the more you talk about these things the more you disgust him."
Threat: Management was kind enough to ask us to talk to you before escalating this. If you don't stop doing it they will have to take steps. I don't know what those are, but they will mean you have no contact with my father at all, and it won't mean that HE gets moved or doesn't get to use the common areas."
End on positive note: "I am sure you don't want to disgust and annoy my father, and you understand now that your questions are harassment. I am sure you don't want to upset him and have everyone think badly of you. You can stop talking to my father this way and make everything okay by never doing it anymore."
posted by Jane the Brown at 3:59 PM on December 20, 2023 [11 favorites]
...and doesn't want any more than a friendly acquaintanceship with her...
...he does not want a close relationship with her...
You need to settle with your father that he doesn't want *any* relationship with this woman. He does not want to talk to her at all, and the staff needs to intervene any time she talks to him.
Nothing short of that is going to put an end to this. I strongly suggest you get it settled with your father and the staff before the meeting with B, and that you draw an unwavering line. You don't need to be cruel, just firm.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:22 PM on December 20, 2023 [18 favorites]
...he does not want a close relationship with her...
You need to settle with your father that he doesn't want *any* relationship with this woman. He does not want to talk to her at all, and the staff needs to intervene any time she talks to him.
Nothing short of that is going to put an end to this. I strongly suggest you get it settled with your father and the staff before the meeting with B, and that you draw an unwavering line. You don't need to be cruel, just firm.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:22 PM on December 20, 2023 [18 favorites]
Honestly, it sounds like B is sexually harassing your dad, and it's not okay. I suspect if the genders were reversed, the care facility would be acting more directly and quickly. I can't believe they want you to confront B? That seems weird to me. I absolutely think the confrontation should be with the facility, asking them how they will protect your dad.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:24 PM on December 20, 2023 [19 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 4:24 PM on December 20, 2023 [19 favorites]
You’ve already been counseled that this is a bad idea. But if you must:
1. Keep it short
2. Don’t sit down (supports keep it short)
3. Identify yourself and your relationship to the situation
4. State the problem. “Your conversations with my father are not welcome. You are harassing him.”
5. State the remedy. “Do not say more than “hi” and “pass the salt” to him” or “Do not talk to him”
6. State the consequences “if you do not stop harassing my father, we will take steps to force you to stop”
7. Leave
posted by shock muppet at 5:13 PM on December 20, 2023 [14 favorites]
1. Keep it short
2. Don’t sit down (supports keep it short)
3. Identify yourself and your relationship to the situation
4. State the problem. “Your conversations with my father are not welcome. You are harassing him.”
5. State the remedy. “Do not say more than “hi” and “pass the salt” to him” or “Do not talk to him”
6. State the consequences “if you do not stop harassing my father, we will take steps to force you to stop”
7. Leave
posted by shock muppet at 5:13 PM on December 20, 2023 [14 favorites]
Building on what @shockmuppet said, use short sentences and short words. Be clear.
At this point though, my rules would be pretty clear:
My father is uncomfortable around you. I’m sure you didn’t mean for that to happen.
You may discuss the weather, the food, and things that are happening at the residence. Nothing else.
You may not go into his room or stand outside his doorway.
Etc
posted by Kalatraz at 5:30 PM on December 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
At this point though, my rules would be pretty clear:
My father is uncomfortable around you. I’m sure you didn’t mean for that to happen.
You may discuss the weather, the food, and things that are happening at the residence. Nothing else.
You may not go into his room or stand outside his doorway.
Etc
posted by Kalatraz at 5:30 PM on December 20, 2023 [3 favorites]
You can stress that it's about your father, but the management needs to stress that it's about all residents: B lives in a community and needs to respect and accept the needs of all other community members. And yeah, words like harassment need to be used - both with B and with management, because they need to understand you'll be holding them responsible if this harassment continues.
An organization housing people with dementia among other things should surely have procedures for keeping some residents apart and otherwise channeling their behavior, even when those residents are not able to respond reasonably to requests.
posted by trig at 5:48 PM on December 20, 2023
An organization housing people with dementia among other things should surely have procedures for keeping some residents apart and otherwise channeling their behavior, even when those residents are not able to respond reasonably to requests.
posted by trig at 5:48 PM on December 20, 2023
Whatever you do, don't debate the issue with B. Simply state the expectation, "You need to stop talking with and interacting with my father." That's it.
I would not discuss a list of which topics are on or off limits. All topics are off limits. If B needs something she can go through staff.
You should try ahead of time to agree with house manager about consequences for breaking this one rule so there can be as much clarity as possible with B. "Don't talk to my father or first X will happen, then Y will happen, and finally Z will happen."
You shouldn't be emotional about setting this expectation. This is just the rule. It must be followed
posted by brookeb at 7:45 PM on December 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
I would not discuss a list of which topics are on or off limits. All topics are off limits. If B needs something she can go through staff.
You should try ahead of time to agree with house manager about consequences for breaking this one rule so there can be as much clarity as possible with B. "Don't talk to my father or first X will happen, then Y will happen, and finally Z will happen."
You shouldn't be emotional about setting this expectation. This is just the rule. It must be followed
posted by brookeb at 7:45 PM on December 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
This is a very uncomfortable position for you and your father to be in.
I would approach this conversation as defining “the line” for B, so that she can recognize if she has crossed it.
I would also, to close out the conversation, ask for next steps with both B and management present. “If B crosses the line, what do you recommend that we do? If these were apartment buildings, I would call the cops; is that what I should do here? If so, then B, please know that if you cross this boundary I will call the cops and we will seek a restraining order.”
I would also play out what could cause “the line” to be more flexible. Maybe, “but I think if we can maintain good boundaries, maybe around Easter we can have another check-in and talk about ways to have a neighborly acquaintance.”
posted by samthemander at 9:11 PM on December 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
I would approach this conversation as defining “the line” for B, so that she can recognize if she has crossed it.
I would also, to close out the conversation, ask for next steps with both B and management present. “If B crosses the line, what do you recommend that we do? If these were apartment buildings, I would call the cops; is that what I should do here? If so, then B, please know that if you cross this boundary I will call the cops and we will seek a restraining order.”
I would also play out what could cause “the line” to be more flexible. Maybe, “but I think if we can maintain good boundaries, maybe around Easter we can have another check-in and talk about ways to have a neighborly acquaintance.”
posted by samthemander at 9:11 PM on December 20, 2023 [2 favorites]
Do you know what your next steps are if the agency is unwilling to resolve the problem? I think you ought to plan for that possibility. It helps in difficult conversations to have a sketch of what you will do if all else fails. Good luck today.
posted by eirias at 4:01 AM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by eirias at 4:01 AM on December 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Conversation was stressful but was a bit easier than I thought it would be, once I got into it and leant into not worrying about being polite. I used some of the tips above in it. I feel I made a massive meal of thinking about this and apologise to you all.
posted by paduasoy at 4:50 PM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by paduasoy at 4:50 PM on December 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Please don’t apologize! You were put in a weird, hard position (that IMO you shouldn’t have had to be in), so it’s natural to not know how to handle it. I would have asked too. I’m glad it went more easily than you thought, and I hope the home does something to help protect your dad from this person.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:37 PM on December 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 6:37 PM on December 21, 2023 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: Updating - a bit over a month after this conversation, it does seem to have been successful! Which I am rather amazed about. Thanks, everyone, for your help.
(I also discovered after the meeting that B does have a son who sees her, so it's interesting that the organisation asked me as the daughter to talk to B rather than asking her own son. If it comes up again, I'll ask if they have talked to him.)
posted by paduasoy at 2:14 PM on February 2 [2 favorites]
(I also discovered after the meeting that B does have a son who sees her, so it's interesting that the organisation asked me as the daughter to talk to B rather than asking her own son. If it comes up again, I'll ask if they have talked to him.)
posted by paduasoy at 2:14 PM on February 2 [2 favorites]
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I don't know if at any point my aunt had to actually talk to the resident herself. I highly doubt it because she always went through the Management.
Honestly this is a bad idea. I would push back on the Management. They should be handling this with B's family.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 3:33 PM on December 20, 2023 [16 favorites]